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Don't Fly During Ramadan
An anonymous reader sends in a harrowing story from Aditya Mukerjee about his recent attempt to fly from New York to Los Angeles. After being pulled aside in the security line, he faced hours of interrogation by uncommunicative officials from several different agencies. When he was finally cleared, his airline, Jet Blue, wouldn't let him on the plane anyway. When he got home, he found evidence that it had been searched. He writes,
"It was 2:20PM by the time I was finally released from custody. My entire body was shaking uncontrollably, as if I were extremely cold, even though I wasn’t. I couldn’t identify the emotion I was feeling. Surprisingly, as far as I could tell, I was shaking out of neither fear nor anger - I felt neither of those emotions at the time. The shaking motion was entirely involuntary, and I couldn’t force my limbs to be still, no matter how hard I concentrated. In the end, JetBlue did refund my flight, but they cancelled my entire round-trip ticket. Because I had to rebook on another airline that same day, it ended up costing me about $700 more for the entire trip. .. But no matter how I’ve tried to rationalize this in the last week and a half, nothing can block out the memory of the chilling sensation I felt that first morning, lying on my air mattress, trying to forget the image of large, uniformed men invading the sanctuary of my home in my absence, wondering when they had done it, wondering why they had done it."
Don't travel by plane.
And don't travel at all.
Built a bomb shelter basement
With titanium walls.
Hey, America,
Are you proud of yourself yet? Proud of what you've become to yourself, your citizens and to the rest of the world? I can't imagine that this is what any of our founding fathers envisioned when they risked everything in order to found this country. And now look what you've made of it.
Ashamed,
A Disappointed Citizen
In the the land of he free and the home of the brave.
- Henrik
- when the Shadows descend -
It's called jihad.
When an entire religion declares that non-members are subhuman kafirs who deserve death, and the "moderate" members of that religion tacitly allow that, it's bad enough.
But it's even worse when that religion places the "holy" duty of jihad on all its members to go out and literally wage war against kafirs.
You reap what you sow.
Have you or your significant other sent any communications that didn't support the NSA mass surveillance state? Because that happened to David Miranda recently.
He could also talk about how bad the pinkos and commies are while he's standing in line.
That's the level of our average American at the moment. It'll get worse as we phase out education.
In any case, while the argument can be made he could have driven or taken the bus instead of flown, and so travel is not infringed, there are cases when air travel is the only viable option. Therefore the security theater that has popped up over the past decade can only be construed as an attack on our right to travel, and, along with the job creation program called military action and surveillance, transform us into a citizenry whose ability to grow and become education is much less that the previous generation.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Aside from anything else, he was flying to go on vacation, so you're not really wasting very much time with "Facts" yourself, are you?
This is what I don't get about people these days.
None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.
You want to get rid of the TSA?
Don't fly.
It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!
"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...
Yeah, that right there, that's the reason why the TSA still exists. You're unwilling to inconvenience yourself. None of you are. So the TSA will continue to inconvenience you instead, because they've got you by the balls (sometimes literally) and they know it. They'll continue to squeeze and squeeze, they'll expand out into the rest of the world like a cancerous tumor and then, when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.
The fact that you think you have no choice is precisely what they want you to think, because that is what gives them control over you.
Cue the endless stream of "I have to fly, you're wrong, if I wish really hard I'm sure the TSA will go away all the same" replies.
The issue here is that unless somebody is willing to talk to the airline, check phone records, ask family and somehow get lucky in obtaining all that information (good luck trying to verify this story with any of the three letter agencies), there is just no evidence whatsoever anybody could ever present about this. And this is a more important issue than whether or not it indeed happened.
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
He missed a flight, got in trouble at work, and made up an elaborate story about Americans hating Brown People so he missed his flight. What happened to any kind of evidence?
Since when is the testimony of a witness not evidence?
I am officially gone from
He's a Hindu. Not a "Muzzie".
Moron
Umm, he was flying during the last week of ramadan? It's mentioned a couple times in TFA, which, contrary to the great /. tradition I did in fact read. And it was a good read, actually, but scary. This government is out of control.
That strange emotion he felt is actually the natural reaction of a free person to the hand of tyranny. Don't worry, before long we will all get the chance to feel it, as have the owners of Lavabit and Groklaw have in recent days.
"You never let a serious crisis go to waste". Yes, the jihadists are out there. The terrorists are out there. But how this society and this government chooses to react to it, tells you all you need to know about who we as a people really are, and what we have become. If the true purpose of terrorism it to cause the victim to live in fear and change their behavior, it sure seems that, by any reasonable standard, the terrorists have won a stunning victory.
Actually, the after-effects from a surge adrenalin was why he was shaking.
Admittedly, caused by the "fight or flight" reflex triggered by the fear engendered by the abusive of authority administered upon his person.
Its literally his body and muscles, all hyped up to run but having no escape, trembling as it releases all that energy and tension to return to normal functioning.
Remember when "fear of flying" used to be about the planes crashing?
If somebody tested positive for explosives residue going through airport security I'd be suspicious too.
The problem here is the level of expertise of the people responding to this situation. It's like these people are DMV rejects. They do not have the training or even basic knowledge needed to deal with this situation AT ALL.
1. He's not muslim, you blathering idiot.
2. He's not taking bombs on planes, nor murdering anyone, nor flying anything into buildings. He'd be dead by now.
3. If things were up to you, taken to their logical conclusion, Your Holiness would be the last person standing on this planet.
I mean, come on, how fucking stupid can you get? You win the stupid for today.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I think opening a newspaper recently, and following anything happening regarding the NSA, Snowden, Manning, Greenwald, etc. might provide you with some circumstantial evidence that would indicate that the scenario described is plausible. Hell, even if it isn't true, I'm angry that things have gotten to the point that I can believe it. Further, now that Clapper has gone in front Congress and been caught lying without repercussions, even a flat denial from officials doesn't cut it for me anymore. This is a problem for our now seemingly nominal democracy. I heard a great line from Ron Paul - I may misquote: "The truth becomes treason in an empire of lies". We're there.
Or more terminologically correct, "Terror".
Terrorism:
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, often violent, especially as a means of coercion.
Terrorist:
A person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.
So really, you, like Miranda last week, had a run in with terrorists and lived.
the only crime here is the gentleman indulged these assholes for more than three hours in a groundless invasion of his privacy and freedom of religion in the pursuit of domestic travel. shit like 'how many times do you pray' and 'did you eat breakfast' are pointless.
and that cold feeling? thats called physical exhaustion. low blood sugar , blood pressure and high stress.
unless chimeracoder feels like pressing charges or hiring an attorney though, which im sure the TSA would clearly apreciate if he didnt, its just another story of a government agency that glad-hands people into submitting to pointless unlawful detention based on skin color. Use your instincts. refuse full body scans and opt for public pat-down. if thats not an offer, refuse private pat-down and leave. Sure, you may be detained or arrested by police as a matter of policy, but its seriously unlikely you'll face or be convicted of any misdemeanor or criminal charge.
Good people go to bed earlier.
This reminded me of last year's massacre at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, where the gunman thought he was attacking a mosque. Not that Muslims deserve to be targeted for hate crimes and unconstitutional detention any more than non-Muslims, but detaining a Hindu on suspicion of being a radical Muslim? It would be like detaining an Episcopalian on suspicion of being an IRA terrorist. After all, Whitey all looks the same...
Another agent came over and handed me a paper slip
Notice that he's already receiving different treatment, despite absolutely zero evidence that he's any kind of threat to anyone.
“You can leave, but I’m keeping your bag.”
Something that would have been interesting to try at this point: "Ok, then. I presume there's a procedure for handling bags you've collected in this fashion, let's fill out the necessary paperwork and do everything by the book, and I'll need to be kept informed about which office to contact for retrieving such evidence once you've discovered that there's nothing criminal about it."
“What is your religion?”
This whole line of questioning is so obviously in violation of the Free Exercise clause it's not even funny.
I am officially gone from
I've felt that feeling to a much smaller degree when I found out that my identity was stolen and a credit card was opened in my name. We go about our lives confident that some things are safe. When we leave the house/apartment in the morning, we're confident that everything will be there when we get back. When we walk down the street, we're confident that our body won't be violated by some random stranger. When we go about our daily lives, we're confident that someone isn't - at that moment - opening lines of credit that will financially ruin us.
We're confident about all this because the alternative is living in terror of assaults from all angles at every second and there's no way a sane mind could deal with this.
So we convince ourselves that we (and our belongings, credit, loved ones, etc) are safe.
And then something like this happens which shatters our illusion of safety. Mine was a bit abstract (your credit score isn't exactly a physical entity) and was caught early so the impact wasn't as big. The author's impact was worse because his body safety illusion was shattered, his concept of having the freedom to move as he pleased was destroyed, and the safety of his personal effects was violated. Rape victims probably feel something similar. We don't really have a word that accurately describes it because it isn't a feeling we feel often enough.
Oh and if you think you don't have an illusion of safety because you've read stories like this and know it can happen - you're wrong. Even though you read the stories, part of your brain rationalizes away the terror of the situation as "things that happen to other people" and you maintain your internal safety illusion until something like this happens.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
There's a song for that. (and, no, it's not that shitty South Park thing, but some fine Denis Leary)
There are heaps of news stories daily that are just first hand accounts. Only when the person telling the story is non-white do we see demands for evidence.
You're proud to be a bully? Go you!
Ramadan ended almost two weeks ago.
Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
There are lots of brands and symbols people identify themselves with. Schools, sports, Apple iThings, politics, religion and lots, lots more. And if you dislike any of these things, you just made an enemy of someone because that is 'their identity.'
It's ridiculous to me... all these "symbol minded people." Perhaps it's my autistic tendencies or something else, but I just can't get behind the things other people get behind. What I see is a bunch of people getting behind a symbol with which they mutually identify and then they all start acting and thinking the same ways.
Whatever the source, most of these things are choices people make. This includes religion. I once had a discussion about religious discrimination with a muslim female who defended her religion and the practices of blending religion and government... and how she thought it was perfectly okay to have religious government.... until, that is, she is not free to do her religious things. She acted as if religion was not a choice. I ended the conversation quickly with "if religion isn't a choice, then it's not faith is it?" She agreed and shut up.
I have the sneaking suspicion that you're sort of an idiot.
Let me post my version of the summary:
He had explosives residue all over him according to multiple tests
- The End
You can all put your race cards away now
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself. What a dick... I mean... I can't be bothered to point out how idiotic you sound, apart from perhaps that you have just lumped together 1.5 billion people.
RTFA - He's Hindu.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
That's a shame then, a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately this sort of thing happens occasionally, but it is the Muzzes to blame not the authorities defending against them.
I generally don't presume to speak for others, but in this case I'll make an exception.
On behalf of everyone who isn't a bigoted moronic arsewipe, I'd just like to say to you: You are an oxygen thief.
Perhaps if we could organize a nation wide NO FLY MONTH to disband the TSA, then the Airlines would pull the strings on their congresscritters to get some of this crap to stop.
Why did this happen?
The guy's Indian, and to your average dimwitted, racist TSA goon that's just another variety of "terr'ist sand-nigger." They're not even smart enough to be racist properly.
This led to him getting an enhanced pat-down with an explosive swab test on his pants which came back positive for some unknown reason, and everything snowballed from there like some kind of comedy skit, where everything he did and said was interpreted as matching the profile of a terrorist.
Now this raises the question, is this how they treat anyone who they think is a Muslim? Explosive swab test and then run them through the wringer if it tests positive, complete with searching their home?
This is why I don't fly in clothes that I've handled gasoline or worked on cars in, you never know what might have been absorbed into the fibers.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
So when your lords and masters make a mistake, it's not their fault, because they've got the power of life and death over you?
Stockholm syndrome, much?
And go talk to all your muslim brothers
He's Hindu. Stereotypically, he's about as likely to commiserate with Muslim extremists as a KKK member would be to try to team up with Jewish groups. Oh wait.
Commonly known as "Shock" -- similar to what you feel after a car accident or any other traumatic experience. In my opinion, this is the kind of thing a citizen should have rights to sue over for damages.
So no complaints when they come and shoot you and your family in a case of mistaken identity then?
You are seriously stupid, and this is slashdot where being stupider than the norm is quite an achievement.
An uncorroborated story, retold in amazing detail (he remembers almost everything said to him so clearly that he's comfortable using quotation marks for dialog), complete with a clever protagonist who's at the mercy of idiots (the Jet Blue agent who, despite working at one of the busiest airports in the US seems never to have encountered anyone who isn't a WASP, the TSA drones who think they're working in the Hotel California, the cops who can't read dates on an ID card and mistake venture capital with capitol one credit cards because, y'know, they're a bunch of blue-collar dummies. Luckily though, our protagonist is clever enough to be able to guess their source of confusion immediately). Then, the chilling conclusion, where he returns home to find almost everything exactly in place, except for the missing photograph. Why would whatever shadowy TLA actually take a photograph off the wall? If they were interested in what it showed, might it not just occur to them to, I dunno, take a picture of it themselves? Then there's the procedural inconsistencies...the NYPD officer can't even be present when he's patted down "because when we pat people down, it’s to lock them up." Really? NYC, the focus of the "Stop and Frisk" controversy actually has officers who believe they can't do a pat-down unless it's during an arrest? And going back to the uncorroborated nature of the story, he would have at least had some voicemails from himself during this ordeal, except once again the universe conspired against him and when he called his parents, "Unfortunately, my mom’s voicemail was full, and my dad had never even set his up".
I'm not going to go so far as to say that the blogger here is lying, but there's more than enough here to make me very skeptical.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
I don't think getting snuffed 10 years after you mastermind an attack that kills 3000 people is getting fucked over 1000 times worse, but what do I know?
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Are you American? If you are, go talk to some of the individuals in your community who advocate Imperialism and plot to murder people. Tell those people to start treating others with respect. Tell them to live and let live. Maybe if they get the message you'll start getting more respect.
If jet blue failed to find him another flight they should be paying that extra $700.
Terrorizing people is what governments do; can't let private organizations go and grab a piece of the action.
gubmints are inefficient and wasteful... they should have let the free market godly hand to apply terror.
(ducks)
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
A friend of mine set off the explosives detectors while trying to fly home for spring break. He hadn't been in contact with any cleaning products or fertilizers or anything like that, and he couldn't for the life of him figure out what the culprit could be.
In the end, it turned out it was his sweat-absorbing socks. I'm not a chemist, so I don't know precisely what it was in sweat that can set off their detectors (ammonia, maybe?), but for everyone's sake I hope TSA had some good hazmat disposal protocols for those things.
Of course, my friend is white, so no back-alley interrogation for him.
Recently I was transiting through Frankfrut en-route to Los Angeles and I was pulled aside for supplemental screening. It took about 15 minutes and while quite thorough was really a joke. Pat-down, millimeter wave, luggage search, explosive sniffing (twice), etc. I can laugh it off easily enough, although I am quite against everything it stands for. I also know if I had stepped in the lawn which had been fertilized recently I likely would have set off the bomb detector, all of which would have made things much worse.
It really all comes down to statistics. While I might think that myself as a 40 year old white male with gold status and a business class ticket poses minimal risk, there is some reason why it is the third time it has happened to me, and it is quite likely not related to security. For the poster, he realizes all the flags he set off from the article, except possibly the first flag. Opting out of the millimeter wave was likely the clincher. While that shouldn't get your apartment searched, it is behavior uncommon to 99% of the passengers and it does raise extra flags.
The fact that the millimeter wave scans are an unreasonable search is another story altogether. And the fact that smuggling something around security isn't rocket science for a committed group... well, let's chalk that up to security theater.
The explosives specialist walked back into the room and asked me why my clothes were testing positive for explosives.
If I was a security official I would run through the documented procedures and, if in doubt, escalate up the chain too - TSA Supervisor, NYPD, FBI, Homeland Security. If I was in charge of an airline and was informed that a passenger had tested positive for explosives, even if accidentally, I would not want them on my plane that day either.
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear right?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
And let's face it... this particular shitstorm was "flying during Ramadan, while looking like a brown-skinned Godless fur'ner".
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
If this man's story is accurate, it's a shameful scenario indeed. But I've read a lot of these well-documented horrible TSA encounter accounts, and most don't involve Ramadan. However, most DO have one thing in common: the person opted-out of the scan and/or argued about the pat-down.
I'm in no way saying that a person deserves this kind of treatment for opting-out of a scan, and I think that the current security procedures border on reprehensible. But people need to understand that they are part of air travel nowadays. Consider them to be a travel risk. If you want to fight them in safety, quit flying and write your rep. And if you decide to fight them in person, prepare to be a martyr. And if you want to get from point A to point B with as small of risk of problems as possible, prepare to consent to being scanned, groped, or whatever else they want to do.
Mukerjee should sue. I hope he is an American citizen; otherwise, he has no chance of getting justice rather than simply a minuscule chance.
I passed the second private screening, but American wouldn't let me fly. I bought a ticket on United, they actually helped me through security without purchasing a ticket as it was pending from my travel agency. I got to my destination, and told an American Manager they wouldn't let me fly from the previous city. The report said that it was because TSA denied me, I explained to her that if TSA denied me how am I here. They gave me a full refund for a non-refundable ticket.
Are you proud to be trolled?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Nope. Shock* is when the blood supply to the brain drops (which can be due to extreme psychological stress).
* I assume you mean in the medical sense since you talk about car accidents and lawsuits.
Living in the US with dark skin is like being a jew in NAZI Germany. Between "if you see something say something" white trash morons fingering every person that looks like a stereotypical Muslim to them and the typical dumb-as-a-rock law enforcement thugs who see every dark skinned person as a terrorist this is a country I would want to flee from.
I wonder what would have happened if he had clammed up and refused to answer any of their questions. What he should have done is tried to leave the airport and fight to get back his possessions if necessary. Once an explosive detector is set off leaving the airport is really the best course of action for anyone. You won't be permitted to fly without being thoroughly violated at that point anyway. May as well come back and try your luck another day. TSA agents have no power to detain you. You are within your rights to take your stuff and walk away. If they try to physically stop you you have the right to defend yourself. The only power they have is the power to prevent you from flying that day out of that airport.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
if during th einterrigation you shit and pissed your pants? Would they let you go? Sesious questons.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Aside from the deprivation of water for an extended period of time (which was probably due to fear of him washing off residue, but still, it perhaps shouldn't have been for that long), I, anti-TSA and 9-11 truther, support these TSA and FBI actions for the most part (though I would have preferred they had been done by private businesses, such as the airlines and airport). Non-invasive chemical testing is precisely the sort of testing that should be done, rather than sexual molestation and virtual strip searching.
The only problem here is JetBlue a) denying him passage and b) compounding the problem by not rebooking him for the same fare. I support such actions in theory, under the First Amendment freedom of association, but if the guy's account is accurate, the public should know about JetBlue's policies.
Note: My personal support of First Amendment freedom of association is at odds with the Civil Rights Act, which I think should be abolished, except in the South. The guy may have a case of racial discrimination under the Civil Rights Act, but of course JetBlue would use the defense that they had the results of the objective chemical test.
So we have a sob story from a Muzzie who is upset about being delayed.
You misspelled "nigger".
OK then, talk to all your "crazy brothers who believe in invisible superheroes who live in the sky". The label doesn't matter, religious = crazy.
If you don't like this kind of thing happening, then I suggest you not fly. Take a bus or drive perhaps?
Where I don't condone how the TSA handled the situation after the machine indicated explosive residue, that they detained and questioned him is NOT an issue. What do we EXPECT TSA to do? They cannot do anything that might be construed as profiling some protected class and have zero investigative authority. So we get cavity searches of wheelchair bound granny and full body pat downs of children and other stupid things. What else can they do but have hard and fast process that their agents MUST follow, no deviations allowed. This is all that happened in this case.
The TSA is tame compared to what happens in some countries. Go Fly El Al and call me about being mistreated. If you have explosive traces on your person or baggage, "well now sir, please step this way" will be just the beginning of your experience. And when you get done, they WON'T be saying "sorry" for anything. Not to mention they background check EVERYBODY before boarding the plane.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The federal Conservative Party is who is in power right now in Canada...
The Progressive Conservative Party went away, but only because it joined with the Alliance Party, which replaced the Reform Party, which is basically how the right won over a split left vote between the Liberals and NDP. Which means they do not have an actual voting majority, nor do the votes cast for others count for anything.
This is why voters are apathetic in Canada. Your vote doesn't matter. In fact MOST votes do not matter in our current system.
A better example of political payment would be the Liberal Party last election. Where they went from one of the two major power parties, to one of marginal significance over night, being destroyed by the NDP (which likely won't happen again now that the previous leader is gone).
Look- I get we live in "unsafe" times, but this is just security theater.
Actually, we don't. Not any less safe than other times, anyway. It's those in power, with an agenda, that want us to think otherwise.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I know! That's why we never heard of Constitution on Chest Guy, Little White Boy with Terrorist's Name & Friends, Veteran with Too Much Implanted Metal or TSA Pen. Tester Guy. The media just isn't interested in the plight of the white man.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
he faced hours of interrogation by uncommunicative officials from several different agencies
How do you get interrogated by someone refusing to communicate with you? Interrogation is to try to get information, which means asking questions, otherwise known as communication. Otherwise, it's just torture.
Odd. Me..
Number of Islamic friends: no idea
Number of Christian friends: Many, but no idea how many
Number of Jewish friends: Several, but no idea how many. It'll change if you're talking race or religion anyway.
Number of Atheist friends: Many, but no idea how many
Number of friends with other religions: no idea
Does it actually fucking matter? Why are you so certain about the Muslim count, and how are you planning to keep it at 0?
That's what it is. And it's time somebody stood up to these assholes and told them so.
And on the Eighth Day, Man created God.
Assuming that any explosives test is 100% specific is the kind of error I'd expect an untrained fool to make, not a supposed expert. There are lot of substances which are chemically similar enough to explosives and are also household chemical which many people come into contact with and thus trigger a false positive. A test like that is supposed to be to help you decide which people need further scrutiny, not as a definitive stop this person from flying tool. Even then if you assume that someone has come into contact with explosives if they don't have any on them then they are not going to explode through magic pixie dust. Hell if I walk through one of my wet labs on the wrong day or perform a magic trick I'm likely to end up with nitrocellulose dust all over my clothing and hair. Once they had determined he had no explosives on him he should have been free to go (whilst filing a report with Homeland Security to follow up); further detention served absolutely no justifiable purpose. If he were a terrorist for example doing a dummy run, as long as he had no explosives it would be more useful to observe him than spend hours questioning people.
As for Jet Blue they have absolutely no excuse, if someone allegedly has explosive residue on them today but no explosives then there is no rational reason to prevent them from flying today or tomorrow or any other day. If he doesn't have any explosives on him, the results of the test are irrelevant because it's far more likely that the test gave a false positive than not.
He was going on holiday.
Apologies for jumping on the bandwagon, but this one's first stop was RTFA.
Idiot.
My most enjoyable security check was in Finland, where they had a greeter passing out candy to make the wait in line more pleasant.
We deal with the result of a explosives test by searching for explosives, and if the person has no explosives on them it is not reasonable that the person has explosives on them. Every test has the potential for a false positive and a rational person recognises that and adjusts their beliefs accordingly. If you continue to believe someone you've searched has explosives after you'd searched them then you're more irrational than they are. You're denying the evidence of your own eyes because of a pre-existing belief. What are they going to do? Pray the explosives into existence?
Irrational thought is not just confined to the religious.
This reads way to cleanly with all the right drama, clean dialog. This is excellent trolling on so many levels. Well done my friend.
He claims that one of the cops asked him, "How religious are you?" What kind of a question is that? It implies that you can be religious, but not TOO religious. Apparently, you have freedom of religion, so long as you aren't too religious. It's okay if you go to a church or temple on Sunday, or whatever, once in a while, but you better not be praying or fasting any other time. That's just weird, subversive and dangerous.
And what is meant by the statement, "...a person with your kind of background"? What, you mean Hindu? Like Ghandi? I realize there have been Hindu terrorists (the Tamil Tigers come to mind), but really the 700 million or so Hindus in the world are not particularly known for being violent -- especially those that are "too religious". The only possible thing that could be meant by that statement is that he was brown-skinned.
I think he might have a good civil rights violation case here.
Maybe next time he should carry a rosary and pack a Bible. He should tell them he is Catholic (lots of brown-skinned, weird-named people are Catholic) and that he is going to see his family for day (in this case, Assumption). Leaning Spanish would probably help too. Just drop a few "senors" in the conversation and they'll probably waive him on through.
Proverbs 21:19
It's hardly testimony without any cross-examination.
I think he would be classified as a victim, not a witness and there is no corroboration to the story. Another post talked about collecting information on this story, but it is hard to do since there are no "facts" to back this up. If this had happened to me, as a victim I would put in there things like the date it happened, the flight number, a name or two. Things that could be checked out if someone choose to do so. That is why I see this is a story and one that is getting the wrong attention for it is being treated as real when it seems more fiction.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
Exactly, which is why I am surprised the parent got marked as troll. It is a reasonable question and statement. There was one thing that bothered me (and I did RTFA), at one point is states he was held for 18 hours and never got a chance to drink water (or eat). What I did not hear him say was that he needed to go to the bathroom
I sat back down and waited some more. Another time, I looked up and noticed that a different officer was guarding the door. By this time, I hadn’t had any food or water in almost eighteen hours.
now 18 hours is a long time to go without food and water, but I would also think a very long time to go without taking a bathroom break. Had he gone to the bathroom he could at least then been able to get some water. No mention of being denied the chance to relieve himself, no comment about how hard it was to "hold it in" till he was done. To be denied that basic right could be construed as torture and I think any good lawyer would be all over that bit of information. Newspapers would be headlining "Hindu Held and Tortured by TSA". Instead was can only assume he can really hold his water and shit for a very long time.
Someone just got their 15 minutes of fame in a very sad way.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
That sounds like a panic attack to me.
But makes you think the zombies keeping chaos from happening have stopped watching you?
Perhaps http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil#Aphorism_146
Dude died in Baluchistan in December of 2001 of kidney failure.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Look all, there have been a lot of comments of a political nature thus far. It's got to stop. As long as the citizens of this country are polarized against one and other, they're NOT concerned with the real source of this problem. This isn't about republicans or democrats. It's not a liberal or conservative agenda. This is about a federal government as a whole (R, D, etc.) that is putting a system of control in place against the general populous. They can't get away with doing it using the military (posse comitaus and such) so their creating a militarized law enforcement community to do it instead. At the same time, they do all they can to keep us, the unwashed in their eyes, in conflict with one another by sowing discord regarding race, religion, political leanings, sex, etc. If everyone in the country would at one moment stop the infighting, turn and cast their gaze directly at the political machine, they would swallow their tongues. This stuff has got to stop. People bled and died to see to it that the sort of thing that happened to Mr. Mukerjee would not happen in this country. Now it's happening. So, you can sit back and bitch about how stupid the US is and how deluded her people are, or (assuming you are a US person) you can shut the hell up, get the hell up and start working to change things.
I've just read the article (heresy, I know) and while there was nothing at all there to cause me any doubt, after getting over how awful the story is, and how bad things have gotten in our country when it comes to things involving personal freedoms, I immediately recalled the story posted on Slashdot many years ago about the woman who motorcycled through the remains outside of Chernobyl and documented the full experience. I think it was over a year later when it came to light that *that* whole article was a hoax.
This story demonstrates vividly just how rotten our security apparatus in the United States has become, with personal protections & liberties (& laws) completely ignored anytime a person with a badge decrees. But there's still that nagging though that this whole thing might just be a work of art engineered to get us thinking about these topics.
I suggest an experiment. Run a red light and get pulled over. When it comes time to hand over your license and registration, wrap a $50 bill around it before handing it over to the cop.
If the cop returns your license and registration but not the fifty, and apologizes to you for his error... then you live in a blatantly corrupt country.
Otherwise, you live in a country that does not live up to the ethical standards you wish it would, but it is not a blatantly corrupt country.
Good grief, man. If you seriously think the United States is a blatantly corrupt country, what the hell do you call Afghanistan or Libya?
Here is a guy who declined the scan and then tested positive for explosives during the routine pat down.
He has no identification showing a fixed residence.
He has no identification showing his work place.
He can't provide a phone number they can call to verify his work.
The two people he says he's meeting can't be reached by phone either.
These are all legitimate red flags for security to follow up on.
I don't see what the problem is here. This is actually the TSA doing what they should be doing.
The problem with the paranoia-fueled destruction of 'innocent until proven guilty' isn't just that it's wrong, and it isn't just that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, it's that it's completely counterproductive!
If they ever pulled an actual terrorist out of a line and subjected them to this sort of questioning, (Something that to my knowledge has never happened even ONCE, correct me if I'm wrong.) chances are they either wouldn't comply at all, or their demeanor or body language would very quickly give away that something was wrong.
His willingness to comply and the fact that nothing in his background fit any real profile other than, I guess, being too not-white— either one alone —really should have shifted the tone of the encounter directly to them trying to figure out why they were getting a false positive on the detector.
This whole mess is a disgrace top to bottom, and I have no doubt the police or (more likely) the FBI searched his apartment, probably while he was being questioned, and that disgusts me, frankly. And this is where we get to how counterproductive this whole fiasco is... If incidents like this are disgusting and angering to the average red-blooded American, imagine the propaganda coup for the people who hate us. For every thousand people who read a story like this and grimace, there's someone with the means to do us harm who reads it and says "Fuck America." and eventually their cup fills up with that shit.
Anyway, I got nothin', except to say, maybe stop being so goddamn paranoid all the time, so we stop doing shit like this. It'll be a good first step. A small one, but a good start. (Maybe then we can work on teaching the Police when it's appropriate to shoot a suspect.)
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Aside from the issues of racial profiling, invasion of privacy, etc... this seems like a huge waste of time, resources, and money. Imagine the hourly rates of everyone from all the agencies involved, and how their hours-long interrogation of a harmless, innocent man diverted all of those resources AWAY from actually preventing terrorism.
No. The courts are not the Constitution. Unfortunately they think they are, and behave as though they are, enough so that you can readily be excused for believing that they are. It is the courts job to uphold (i.e. enforce) the content of the Constitution. They make no attempt to do that. They are the reason why the Constitution is slightly less valuable than the same square footage of toilet paper in 2013. The Constitution was never meant to be loosely interpreted.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
the most invasive country I visited was Bosnia
You sure about that?
Corrupt - yes. Invasive?
Unless you're counting neighbors minding your business looking for gossip fodder, nobody here pretty much gives a fuck.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Just get rid of all the useless security that's been added since you know when and carry on. Ben Franklin will be proud and the ghost of F@scism that now envelopps you will be dissipated.
End of Line.
This is clearly an agent who has never been to a beach. You don't even have to sit down and it'll be everywhere.
I would think that if you haven't had anything to eat or drink for 18 hours that your need to releive yourself would be minimal. When I'm mildly dehydrated, the last thing on my mind is taking a piss.
We only have the testimony of the victim. We must admit the possibility of a biassed account.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I wonder what the TSA would think if someone had prepared a list of substances they've come in contact with, in advance? In this insane-ass world, I bet that'd be more likely to be seen as suspicious than helpful...
I have absolutely no doubt I would set off the detectors, with all the chemicals and materials I come in contact with. I mean, I chemically etch my own circuit boards using either photo-resist or direct screen-printed resist... I machine stuff from aluminium, brass, oil-bronze, steel, etc. and that involves cutting lubricants, as well as the various lubricants involved in keeping the machines working. There's probably little bits of swarf in my shoe soles... Moldmaking and resin-casting materials... Paints and model supplies... And of course all manner of solvents from the mundane to the industrial.
And this is stuff I do at HOME, so there will be traces of something if any of that is enough for a positive.
THREAT LEVEL: *Rubber glove snapping sound*
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I have a sneaking suspicion that you have a penchant for understatement.
But it is possible that he ate and drank before going to the airport. He may have had a nice meal, he might have drank some water at some point along the way. So sure, after relieving himself he may have been able to wait, but the 18 hours was in addition to the initial time spent waiting. In fact we don't have a clear idea how long the really took for we don't know when it started. Also, 18 hours and he did not sleep? He never mentioned sleep, even in passing like "At some point I slept for a few hours in those 18" See, to much detail in one sense, way to little in another. Also, if he was kept awake for 18 hours then that is even more close to torture. Let's do some critical thinking before blind acceptance.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
Fuck yourself! So he was going on holiday and that means we should take his word at face value? You're such a gullible fuck. No wonder people hate fucks like you.
Most of the Muslims I've met have been observant enough that it is obvious to people who know them. They pray and eat halal and so forth. Not all Muslims are this observant, but if you spend much time with an observant Muslim you will know it.
Lots of people talk about religion all the time. My mom knows what religion everyone is because that is her favorite topic. I'm guessing the AC is like that, and would call the cops if someone admitted to being Muslim.
Man, you really need that seminar!
He said he was released by 2PM. 2PM - 18h gives me 8PM of the previous day. He said he was going to meet his family for dinner. I'd believe that he would relieve himself before departing to the airport. Thus, yeah, he would have to eventually sleep or at least feel sleepy. He said he didn't eat breakfast, and we can deduce he didn't eat dinner. Though, I guess by the end if he was indeed shaking and as perturbed as he seemed to be by his descriptions, it could be possible that he would forget he would need to use a bathroom for a while.
Though this is pure speculation based on what I could read from TFA, and my memory may be failing. Also, it seems strange that he didn't think of calling a lawyer. He should have, imo.
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
I was once suspected of rape by Police in Germany. They were a bit rude when they grabbed me on the railway station. They demanded and got my DNA and fingerprints. I had to drop my trousers "to look for scratches". Not the underpants, though. They probably still have my DNA and fingerprints. They locked me for two hours in their police cell, with a blanket and all my clothes. I got something to drink.
They wanted to talk me into confession and wrote a lengthy report. They demanded to look into my flat, which I granted. Then a waterproof alibi showed up. They drove me home and they retained my coat. I got that back weeks later.
I was a bit upset, but they did not behave like thugs ("wait for a few more minutes, no water for you"). I think they gave me water to drink. No lights into the eyes or similar shit.
All in all much more civil than this story, if it is entirely true. Considering the story of Bradley Manning, I do think this story is 100% accurate. America, you have your Gestapo Light. The Opportunity Cost Of Oil, I assume.
But hey, there is justice in this. American Clandestine cloak-and-dagger shit brought misery over Persia and Chile and quite a few more countries. You still support the nasty Wahabist tyranny of Saudi-Arabia. IF there is justice in this world, why should Americans not feel a tiny bit of their own medicine. A bit of those Shah secret police thuggery now exists in America. Because THERE IS some justice in this world. Many a tiny bit, but there is.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1621459/posts
Posted on Tue 25 Apr 2006 07:28:51 PM EDT by Malsua
Big Brother Is Watching WHO??
TSA "Terrorist" Turns Out To Be A Homeward-Bound Marine by ANN Senior Correspondent Kevin R.C. "Hognose" O'Brien
The Transportation Security Administration bagged a terrorist in Los Angeles International Airport Tuesday, or so they thought. Daniel Brown's name came up on their no-fly watchlist, so they dragged him into interrogation and grilled him, despite the protestations of Brown and his fellow travelers, who swore they could vouch for him.
The others in Brown's party went on their Northwest Airlines flight to Minneapolis-St. Paul, where they waited on a bus at the airport. You see, the detained man was Staff Sergeant Daniel Brown, USMC Reserve, and he was traveling with the other members of his Marine Reserve Military Police unit, which was heading home to Minnesota from eight months of combat in Iraq. The Marines were in full uniform and all, including Brown, had travel orders and military identification cards.
After attempts to stonewall under claims of "security," TSA spokesmen finally admitted that Staff Sergeant Daniel Brown was placed on the no-fly list, and ultimately detained, because they had detected gunpowder on his footgear -- not on this flight, but on a prior flight, which earned Brown a permanent place on the TSA's mysterious terrorist lists.
The footgear that had been exposed to gunpowder? Brown's combat boots, and the occasion of that flight was after his return from his first combat tour in Iraq. Gee... a combat Marine in Al-Anbar Province being exposed to gunpowder.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Gosh, then convince your co-religionists to act like civilized people and stop blowing themselves up. Simple as that.
I.e., convince his co-religionists not to do things such as this?
(Of course you weren't just assuming what his religion was, right, given that he stated what it was in TFA, right?)
(Oh, and speaking of uncivilized people blowing things up for religious reasons....)
The headline is "Don't fly during Ramadan" yet there's no mention of it in the summary. Perhaps in the article.
Yeah, God forbid you actually RTFA.
Anonymous story from generic muslim
Wrong.
So no complaints when they come and shoot you and your family in a case of mistaken identity then?
Of course not, but if I travelled in Ramadan with residues that detected as explosives on my clothes, had no landline contact for my employer, no proof of my current address, a driving licence showing my next to last address, and so on I would accept being held when they verified that I was OK. After all for all they would know I could be a Muzzie
but but but maybe they did not have clean water anywhere near?
If you read Dilbert you would have known that these seriously looking machines to detect explosives etc are just boxes with a lamp blinking more or less randomly.
Well I hope you enjoy getting fucked in the ass by your "protectors" everyday you step inside an airport.
The guy's Indian, and to your average dimwitted, racist TSA goon that's just another variety of "terr'ist sand-nigger."
What has me curious is whether or not JetBlue acted lawfully by denying Mukerjee boarding after he was cleared by TSA, the FBI, and airport police to fly. As providers of public accommodation, they cannot discriminate based on religion, race, etc.
After he was cleared to fly by the aviation security professionals, what lawful reason did JetBlue have to deny boarding?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
If something like this happened to me, I would seriously consider moving to a different nation which takes privacy laws more seriously. Or one which is less racist.
Since statements by a single individual, absent other evidence, are unlikely to even get you into a courtroom. And, since the value of eyewitness testimony has been proven to be shaky at best... google: value of eyewitness testimony.
I have not read TFA, but if all we have is this person's statement, no other witnesses, physical evidence, or even a basic attempt to obtain a comment from the TSA, then we have nothing.
Just another day in Paradise
Nowdays, commercial flights are less and less safe and this is becoming quite annoying. I think many passengers will stop to fly due to this.
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