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Schneier: We Need To Relearn How To Accept Risk

An anonymous reader writes "Bruce Schneier has written an article about how our society is becoming increasingly averse to risk as we invent ways to reduce it. 'Risk tolerance is both cultural and dependent on the environment around us. As we have advanced technologically as a society, we have reduced many of the risks that have been with us for millennia. Fatal childhood diseases are things of the past, many adult diseases are curable, accidents are rarer and more survivable, buildings collapse less often, death by violence has declined considerably, and so on. All over the world — among the wealthier of us who live in peaceful Western countries — our lives have become safer.' This has led us to overestimate both the level of risk from unlikely events and also our ability to curtail it. Thus, trillions of dollars are spent and vital liberties are lost in misguided efforts to make us safer. 'We need to relearn how to recognize the trade-offs that come from risk management, especially risk from our fellow human beings. We need to relearn how to accept risk, and even embrace it, as essential to human progress and our free society. The more we expect technology to protect us from people in the same way it protects us from nature, the more we will sacrifice the very values of our society in futile attempts to achieve this security.'"

45 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. Diminishing returns by qbast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mitigate biggest risk and immediately something else becomes biggest. At some points you have to stop because every next risk is smaller and more has to be sacrificed for smaller piece of safety.

    1. Re:Diminishing returns by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, it's worse than that. In order to eliminate certain risks only really drastic solutions are effective.

      I don't think certain risk elimination costs will become so high we're unwilling to pay. I believe the costs will go higher and we'll keep paying.

      Eventually, people will understand that to avoid risks originating from the poorest countries, the final solution is to just eradicate those countries. After all, we don't want them for their population but for their resources. Instead of killing a few and putting a government that follows our orders, eventually we'll be capable (both technologically and socially) to just exterminate everyone in a country and replace them with resource extraction machines.

      And once that problem is finally over, instead of the richest country vs the poorer one it will be between cities, and then neighborhoods.

      The only thing stopping the richest from protecting themselves by exterminating everyone else is the shitty quality of the robots.

    2. Re:Diminishing returns by jiadran · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From what I understand, the point is that we are not concentrating on the biggest risks, but on the wrong risks. The measures we have taken to "protect" flights have resulted in more deaths (due to car accidents of people avoiding flying) than the deaths caused by the original incident that triggered the "security" measures.

      All in all, we should not give up our freedoms for security theater that actually increases the overall risk.

    3. Re:Diminishing returns by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Eventually technology will allow a single human being to not need anyone else. Whenever those event coincide, it will be the end of humanity.

      Everybody needs friends of some sort. Unless you're suggesting that robots will be good enough friends by then. But if they're autonomous and free-thinking enough to make good friends, they're going to be just as much of a problem as real humans. They're also going to be harder to destroy.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:Diminishing returns by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it is Islam

      I believe you misspelled "religion" there.

      No need to thank me.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:Diminishing returns by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not exactly. First, our supposed "democracy" is a lie. What we actually have is a simulation to contain the masses and making them believe they are free (and therefore does not rebel). And in the first moment that appear a technology that allows the 1% superichs to kill anyone without relying on anyone, our "democracy" ends just as well as our lives.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    6. Re:Diminishing returns by khakipuce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The chances of dying are 100%. We all do it, it is just a case of when and how. As a society we are well into looking for very marginal returns - eat brocolli all your life to put off the chance of getting bowel cancer when you are 87 - and it is impossible to do valid experiments that show if measured take to mitgate one risk cause others.

      I work on a large industrial site and management have voer the last few years been on a major safety push. One result of this is that they have been round and "risk assessed" all the walk ways and put barriers all over the place. The outcome is that walking from the car park to the office is now so convoluted that people just walk down the road ways. There never was any evidence that anyone was acutally injured in the areas where barriers were put up.

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    7. Re:Diminishing returns by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      *As interpreted by Christianity, not buy you. Your(and other's) interpretation may differ.

      Which Christianity? Not all Christianity is even Saulist!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Diminishing returns by Ash+Vince · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a step there that you are avoiding. To exterminate everyone in a country you might need a bomb, but you might also use a genetically targeted bio weapon. Or whatever else we invent.

      The problem is that the biggest risk factor is not genetic - it is Islam. I suppose in the far future it might be possible to have intelligent swarms of robot "wasps" with poisonous stings, who can look out for indications that someone is a muslim, but the problem will still be with us for many years.

      You must be one of the people who pose the biggest risk to society if you actually believe that, you are one of the stupid morons who is unable to critically evaluate anything not fed to you by fox news.

      Islam is a religion, nothing more nothing less. Many people go through life being helped by Islam (just like Christianity) to be better people and act in ways less dictated by self interest and more in being nicer to ones fellow man. The problem is that just like Christianity a few years back it is twisted by some very sick individuals to justify their own sick ends.

      This is hardly a fault of Islam since the main tenets of that faith were written down thousands of years ago and have been unchanged since (the Koran is actually less flexible in this regard than the Bible, although it worth remembering that Islam still recognises Christ as being a prophet so they don't exactly ignore his teachings). This is the fault of the person doing the twisting and the person who believe the twisted result. Hate preachers want us all to live in an Islamic Caliphate just because that puts them in charge.

      We in the west though have similar people who try and twist christianity or democracy or patriotism towards their own ends: We have people who own arms companies who love it when we invade other nations as they sell more guns. We have people who own oil companies who love it when invading a country and installing a friendly government opens up a new market. We have politicians who carp on about something happening overseas and whipping up a furor amongst the public to distract from them humping their PA or giving their chums a tax break (ok, this might be an exaggeration but I certainly do not believe that many of our politicians act in our own best interest, they act in theirs).

      The problem is not the idea of patriotism, democracy, christianity or islam. The problem is when we blindly follow interpretations of these ideas spouted by people with a hidden agenda. The only solution to this is that we question more of the information that it is given to us and think more about motives of the people trying to encourage our views in a particular direction.

      (Just for the record, I think there is about as much chance of any western country becoming a caliphate as their is of world peace breaking out tomorrow. I am also a thoroughly decided atheist who has read about a few religions but decided that ultimately they are all the creations of man, not god so I would simply refuse to follow any religious laws that were imposed on me that I did not agree with morally anyway.)

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    9. Re:Diminishing returns by qbast · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's because appeal to emotions trumps cost-benefit analysis anytime.

    10. Re:Diminishing returns by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you used the wrong word for "Any strong belief"

      Stalin Russia was quite violent and evil by today's terms. He wasn't touting Religion but Communism.

      Religion tends to make an easy excuse, because most religions are based on old texts that have been translated a few times over, written in people from different cultures and different views of the world, it makes it easy to justify nearly anything with these texts by saying this is fact, this is metaphor, Lets focus on these words and not from those.

      When Jesus ask what was the most important commandment, he gave two.
      Love God, and Love your Neighbor. I choose to take that as the important parts, but others don't because they dislike their neighbor, and will focus on other parts where it was OK to strike people down.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re:Diminishing returns by stdarg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So far it has worked in Germany, Japan,

      Those countries weren't exactly starving in the streets when they tried to take over the world.

      Germany, of course, was one of the most powerful countries in the world before WWI and wanted to use the war to consolidate the continent. That's the actions of a superpower, not a desperate street scrapper.

      Japan before WWII had been building and modernizing for decades. They were an ally in WWI. They had fought some minor wars in the region earlier, defeating Russia for instance. Again, not a country with some existential threat.

      Countries that are powerful can also be dangerous, it's just a matter of attitude. Germany post-WWII has been decidedly anti-war, not due to them having food and energy, but because they were thoroughly humiliated when the world found out about what was going on in concentration camps. I mean really humiliated on every level.

      Progress is being made in China, India, and Brazil.

      So do you think that China is less aggressive militarily today, with their growing wealth and industrialization and national pride, than 20-30 years ago? I mean there's a lot of tension between China and Japan, and in the seas around China in general. You don't perceive that as a growing trend as they get wealthier and more powerful?

    12. Re:Diminishing returns by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another way of looking at it is that religions typically either demand certain behaviors or prohibit certain behaviors. For Jews, the basics are more-or-less the 10 Commandments. For Christians, the basics are laid out in Matthew 22:36-40, to love thy neighbor and love God. For Muslims, the basics are the 5 Pillars, which are:
      1. A declaration that Allah is the one true god, and Mohammed is his prophet.
      2. Praying 5 times a day.
      3. Fasting during Ramadan.
      4. Give a percentage of your income to the poor.
      5. Try to get to Mecca at least once in your life.

      The vast majority of Muslims kinda sorta do that, although many fudge the praying 5 times a day part when it's inconvenient, and many never make it to Mecca. The idea, very popular in some Christian circles, that all Muslims are some sort of barbarian horde that would destroy everything good in the world if given a chance, just doesn't match up with reality.

      Likewise, the idea, very popular in some Muslim circles, that all Christians are some sort of decadant horde that would destroy everything good in the world if given a chance, also fails to match up with reality. For some reason, blanket statements about the worldviews of a billion people just doesn't capture the nuances of human thought and behavior.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    13. Re:Diminishing returns by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      However, if we didn't have security measures, or some 'whistle-blower' leaked all of them, do you think that the people who don't like us wouldn't have continued to blow up or hijack plane after plane...

      I believe the only worthwhile and moral safety measure that has been added since 9/11 is that cockpit doors are now reinforced; that's pretty much it. Everything else they've done violates people's fundamental liberties, and since I'm someone who cares far more about freedom than safety, I'd rather go without such security theater (the TSA is garbage and most likely doesn't do anything).

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    14. Re:Diminishing returns by gutnor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's be realistic - if the problem was Islam, with its 1.6 billion followers (1 person out of 4), you would be dead.

    15. Re:Diminishing returns by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump.
      I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?" He said, "Yes."
      I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian."
      I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant."
      I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist."
      I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist."
      I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
      I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
      I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
      I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


      - Emo Philips

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    16. Re:Diminishing returns by tbannist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not just any strong belief, after all, I don't think there are too many people who are extremely violent because really orchids are the best kind of flower. I think the proper word is ideology. The kind of violence you are referring to requires a strong set of beliefs that reinforce each other and it requires an enemy ideology (or ideologies). The violence is justified by fear and/or hatred of the enemy.

      It doesn't matter whether the enemy is libertarianism, collectivism, capitalism, Islam, religion, athieism, liberalism, progressives, conservatism, environmentalism, industrialism, or people with different colored skin. Some people will try to marshal fear and hatred to enhance their own power, and intentionally or not, it will spawn violence. These people will routinely used cherry-picked facts or quotes to justify their position, sometimes ignoring the obvious message to focus on minutae that can justify their current activities. They may do it consciously to manipulate others or unconsciously to justify their behaviour, but tiny little facts that match their ideology will be found to be more important than the massive important ones that contradict it.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    17. Re:Diminishing returns by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Germany was badly bankrupted by the Allies after WW I and experienced hyperinflation that is pretty much the textbook example of what hyperinflation looks like. It's not hard to find images of people buying bread with wheelbarrows full of currency.

      And then there's the merry-go-round of governments that took place in the 20s into the 1930s that allowed a failed artist from Austria to seize power.

      To describe post-WW I Germany as a "powerful country" is grossly inaccurate.

      Germany has largely been anti-war not because of the holocaust but because of the high price paid in Germany over two wars. The US largely imposed a famine on the German population through 1946-1947 through restrictions on food imports and food aid.

    18. Re:Diminishing returns by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I for one am critical of Christianity because your own holy book describes a vile and evil god who inflicts uncountable horrors on mankind, and you dare to bow before his monstrosity and give praise to his sins. Your god is personally responsible for genocide, murder, arguably rape and countless other crimes against humanity. And that is not even counting the crimes committed on his command by his prophets, praised by the leaders of his faith or by his followers in his name.

      Of course I am also critical of ALL religion because it is nothing more than a memetic parasite that infests and corrupts the human mind and subverts free will through the use of brain washing and mental degradation. And in some cases, these religions pose an existential threat to the long term survival of humanity.

    19. Re:Diminishing returns by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Having googled the guy, it sounds like he at least had notions of making life better for other people.
      > He didn't hate the whole of humanity, he hated industrialisation.

      Well you could say the same about Bin Laden, couldn't you? All you really need to do is warp around your idea of "a better life" a little bit. Afterall, "better" is itself a value judgement. Ted said "life is better without technology because it means more jobs" (or something to that effect, and probably more nuanced).

      Bin Laden's "better life" was.... "Living the life God intended for us". If you believe in his God and that his God wants a world run the way he espoused, then it makes sense too.

      Similarly men like Nelson Rockafeller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Drug_Laws thought that the "better life" was one where nobody was addicted to drugs.

      Personally, I tend to think its the desire to judge other people's life and make it better for them, with their cooperation or without that is the problem. The old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" rings pretty true. Good intentions of one sort or another have justified more atrocities than I have time to mention.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  2. Short version by philip.paradis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bruce is right. Even if our society managed to put enough measures in place to mitigate all but the risks associated with an asteroid impact, you surely would not want to live in that society, as the term "living" would be a loosely defined term at best. It would be a society essentially devoid of free will.

    --
    Write failed: Broken pipe
    1. Re:Short version by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While you and I may not want to live in such a society there are those who would like nothing better. Many of them fancy themselves as the enforcers in such a regime, a chance to be a master instead of one of the many slaves. For people who live to control others every unjust law that makes life unbearable for the rest is yet another opportunity for them to exert their authority and feel that blissful, euphoric sense of power that is for them the ultimate drug.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    2. Re:Short version by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So things would have been less dystopian without the bailouts? I can't really imagine that..

      I'd have liked to have found out. Rewarding criminality only gets you more criminality. The banks could have been put into receivership and wound down and sold off in a controlled manner, preserving jobs and transitioning to new management. Shareholders and bondholders would have taken a haircut. But that would have meant the end of those banks as we knew them and their chief management would have been out of work and out of favor. Can't have that when you have powerful friends in government, eh?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  3. A lot of this is not aversion to risk by cyber-vandal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's an aversion to being sued for not sufficiently managing that risk which leads to massive overreactions on the part of authorities and businesses.

    1. Re:A lot of this is not aversion to risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Almost but not quite - when something goes wrong, a large proportion of people start looking for some way to shift the responsibility from their own actions to some other party. Not quite everyone is like this, but the number that accept responsibility for themselves is diminishing and when you see one person after another getting away with shirking their responsibility it makes it harder and harder to justify and not go down that destructive path yourself.

  4. Sorry, but where is the evidence? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As someone who is familiar with a lot of theoretical work on decision making and the work of Tversky and Kahneman, but not with current empirical research, I am wondering where he gets his data from. By looking at a few examples you cannot establish general claims about how risk prone or averse we have become. Likewise, how does he know that risk aversity depends on the culture? Perhaps it does, but I want to see the study. And yes, there are plenty of studies in this field, it just seems that Schneier doesn't read them, or otherwise he should mention them.

    So how about some empirical evidence?

    1. Re:Sorry, but where is the evidence? by philip.paradis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It appears you've been asleep for the last ten years, and possibly the twenty years preceding it that laid the foundation for the severe civil liberties issues we're facing now. Your UID indicates you should be old enough to understand this, unless you've led a rather sheltered life.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    2. Re:Sorry, but where is the evidence? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3,000 lost lives have caused us to spend trillions on wars. A fraction of that invested in additional medical research would have saved far more.

      A death in front of the cameras is worse more than a million deaths on a hospital bed...to a politician.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:Sorry, but where is the evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I've mentioned Tversky and Kahneman, and as it happens on my desk are currently (right now and very literally):

      Bouyssou / Dubois / Prade / Pirlot (eds.): Decision Making process. Wiley 2006.

      Gärdenfors /Sahlin (eds.): Decision, probability, and utility.Cambridge UP 1988.

      as well as (not directly related) Amartya Sen's "Rationality and Freedom".

      The older Gärdenfors volume has plenty of references to empirical research on risk taking in the contributions of Part IV ("Unrealiable psobabilities") and in chapter 11 "Prospect theory: an analysis of decision under risk" by Tversky and Kahneman. The more recent Bouyssou et. al. has even more references to empirical research.

        It's not as if behavioral economics was a new field. But as I said I am mostly familiar with the theoretical research, so why are you being such an asshole?

  5. A good start by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would be exterminating the lawyers.

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
  6. It's more of "protect the children", by FunPika · · Score: 4, Informative

    Business/governments are afraid of public backlash for NOT going to extreme lengths. As an example, if Obama today announced he was going to work towards repealing the PATRIOT Act and whatever silly laws have lead to excessive sums of money being spent on reducing the the already slim chance of dying in a terrorist attack, Republicans would go crazy claiming that the Democrats don't give a care if you and your family die. If schools right now weren't spending who-knows how much money on installing security cameras, hiring armed guards, etc. in response to Sandy Hook, there would be articles everywhere right around now claiming how the public school system is being irresponsible with the safety of children. Hell, I recently remember that there were actually people seriously considering shunning Starbucks because they won't become a gun-free zone where relevant laws don't require it.

    --
    After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
  7. This was foreseeable by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Big business is risk-averse. And in America today, big business runs everything.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  8. Schneier is right, as usual by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Though increasingly I start getting the impression that he's firing about a couple of "duh. You don't say..." statements. Or is it just 'cause I'm in the sec biz that it seems "duh" to me?

    Why does anyone think security is in any way different from any other business? In EVERY business, every project, every goal you have, everything you do, the first 90% take 10% of the work, while the last 10% gobble up 90%. Be it 80/20 or 70/30 in yours, I won't split hairs, but that's how it is: A huge part of the project or goal is trivially implemented while a minimal part takes up the lion's share. I'd even go so far to say that in security, the ratio is 99-1.

    The GOOD thing about security is that you can actually just do the first 99% and accept the risk for the rest, and get away with an incredible cost/benefit ratio. And you'll find that most companies actually use that strategy in their risk management and reach a security level of 95+ percent. Actually, the joke here is that most companies are, at least in my and I'd say "our" (yours too, I'd guess) definition of security standards, under-secured because of their IT-Governance and that "95% is good enough 'til everything is at 95%" rules. That's why trivial security mechanisms aren't implemented. We're already at 95 with sec. No need to throw money that way (and, believe it or not, most companies reach their "recommended" IT-Sec level easily. Simply because those 95% are SO dirt cheap, easy and painless to implement that they almost certainly ARE already in place, and if not a few pennies will do. You'll find the IT-Sec requirements usually in the "quick wins" quarter of the chart).

    You see, companies already heed that advice. Mostly because they don't give a shit about customers complaining about shoddy security because, well, they'll still buy 'cause we're SO cheap. And yes, they do.

    It's different with governments that won't just get a quick outcry when a security blooper happens (like a corporations would if they, say, lose every CC number of your customers). If a plane crashed anywhere into a building again, the press would have a field day. HOW could this happen? Didn't our law makers learn anything from 9/11? Did they simple ignore it and go on with their life? What do we have those useless twits for if they do not do ANYTHING? You may fill up here with statements of your choice, but one thing is certain: This administration is finished. Done. Nobody will give them credit for anything anymore. And you better forget about winning the next elections for at least half a decade. People tend to remember those things (and the other party will spend a lot of time and money reminding them of it).

    So we need 100% security. Not because we really want it or need it. Not because the scenario is so dangerous to us, the people.

    It's dangerous to them, and their place at the feeding trough.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Step out of your comfort zone by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I agree with the article. Increasingly people relinquish life experiences, if not life itself, out of fear and an unwillingness to take any risks. People who avoid trips to far away countries because of fear of a plane crash are a common occurrence. Yet I also know people who avoid excursions on weekends because they are afraid of being involved in a traffic accident. People who are afraid to visit concerts out of fear of crowds or stampedes, people who love oriental style and culture yet would never visit a country such as Morocco out of fear of kidnap or a terrorist attack.

    I have to admit, I also experience this fuzzy fear of doing something new, moving out of my comfort zone, leaving the safe haven of my apartment, my town, my daily routine, every time I leave to do something out of the ordinary. I blame the worldwide media and my addiction to news. It seems like bad things happen all the time, everywhere. But it's important to put things into perspective. The world is a very big place, and 99.998% of the time people are safe and nothing happens. Of course, on those very rare occasions where something unfortunate does happen, it makes news and penetrates into our awareness, tickling our fears.

    Of course, just as important as putting things into perspective, is not to be stupid and take unnecessary risks. You want to experience oriental culture? By all means, visit Morocco: Casablanca, Marrakesh, Fes. The people are very friendly and there are beautiful things to see there. But please, stay out of Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq... accepting risk does not have to encompass being reckless.

    Looking back, I don't regret a single time I kicked myself in the butt, stepped out of my comfort zone, and experienced new things. Yes, I was anxious on numerous occasions, mostly at airports, nervous and afraid. It doesn't matter. In the end, it was all worth it.

  10. Need for company by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everybody needs friends of some sort.

    No. You're projecting your own ideas onto others in order to come up with an answer you like. The history of humanity is filled with those who went away from others on purpose, with motivations all over the cognitive map.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  11. Risk taking is always encouraged... by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but failure is unacceptable.

    Standard operating procedure in nearly all industries today.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  12. Wrong focus by captainpanic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But we do not even mitigate the biggest risk first. Arguably the biggest risk right now to us is cancer. However, in the US, the budget for cancer research is a pitiful 5 billion $/yr, which is rather small in comparison to the 79 billion $/yr for military research and testing.

    Sources for budgets:
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/NCI/research-funding
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#By_title

  13. I mostly agree with him by davidbrit2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...But somehow I don't have a problem with less-frequent building collapses.

  14. nanny-state government ruining our kids by jonwil · · Score: 4, Informative

    When I was a kid, I used take my pocket money every Saturday morning, tear out of the house at who knows what speed, down the street, through the car park of the recreation center, across the sports oval and through to the corner store (all the while shouting who knows what at the top of my lungs). Then I would go and spend my pocket money on all kinds of lollies (most of which would probably be eaten by the time I got home).
    All of this was done with no parental supervision whatsoever.

    These days if that happened, the parents would be yelled at for allowing their kid to go out unsupervised, yelled at for allowing their kid to run so fast though car parks and sports ovals and things with such a high risk of being hurt in the process and quite possibly yelled at for allowing their kids to spend their money with no controls on what they are buying.

    Note that I also did other "dangerous" things like walking/riding my bike to school, playing on playground equipment and accessing the Internet without a parent looking over my shoulder at all times.

    1. Re:nanny-state government ruining our kids by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...

      These days if that happened, the parents would be yelled at for allowing their kid to go out unsupervised, yelled at for allowing their kid to run so fast though car parks and sports ovals and things with such a high risk of being hurt in the process and quite possibly yelled at for allowing their kids to spend their money with no controls on what they are buying.

      ...

      Or perhaps parents today just perceive they would be yelled at for allowing this because they read that some parents in New Jersey was once talked to by CPS years ago. The "Nanny-State" is more of a chilling effect than a real phenomenon. Better communication means that even if an activity has only a .0001% chance of causing injury, we've heard of a child that was injured by it.

      There's a family in our neighborhood that practices that kind of "Free Range" childcare, AFAIK no-one has actually yelled at them, and their children haven't had any more injuries than any others.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    2. Re:nanny-state government ruining our kids by Trillian_1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not sure how that's the fault of a "nanny state government" rather than overprotective parents. Mind you, I agree that - on the whole - kids today are overly sheltered. (Ugh, as someone not even 30 it pains me to write 'kids today.') But as someone who works with middle and high school students, I also don't think the problem is as bad as it is made out to be. It's usually one parent out of ten or twenty who are truly the obnoxious ones. They're just loud enough, and insistent enough, to paint ALL parents as whiney and over-protective, and thus all youth as sheltered.

      But there are still kids running through parks and cities, spending money on candy, and going to play at the skate park. You may just not be hanging out with them.

      PS - I'm from a major city in the US, which shapes my view. It sounds like, from some of your language, that you're not from the US. I'd be curious how/if things differ elsewhere, but can only speak from my experience.

  15. Vaccines by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Informative

    People have responded to this with statements about terrorism/security and such, but the first thing I thought of was vaccines. The anti-vaccination folks constantly declare vaccines to be a bigger health risk than the disease they protect against. Part of the problem is that vaccines are so successful that most folks today don't remember a time when polio, measles, whooping cough, etc ravaged the world. They don't remember people dying or being permanently maimed by these diseases. (This includes me, by the way.)

    To some people, this lack of personal experience makes them imagine the diseases as if they were a "bad cold." Then, they hear about the "toxins" in vaccines and the bad risk assessment kicks in. They figure that the high danger (as perceived by them) of vaccines outweighs the low chance of getting the disease and the low severity (again as seen by them) of the disease. So they skip the vaccinations - and then herd immunity breaks down, people get sick, and die.

    Though I wouldn't trade being safe from these diseases, this state of safety has altered the ability of some people to make good risk assessments.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  16. The Empathy Problem by Millennium · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Two problems, actually. One is that we are dealing, not with a fear of risk, but a phobia towards it: the terms are related, to be sure, but the latter is taken to an irrational degree. If we don't want to spend our lives in padded rooms, then we must be willing to forego the mantra of "Never Again."

    But the other problem comes in when the current political fashion of empathy-based arguments comes into play. We are asked to empathize with people who have been traumatized, in the moment of their trauma. Anyone would say "Never Again" in those circumstances: that's a large part of what it means to suffer trauma, and the very definition of empathy demands it from those practicing it. But the recently-traumatized are not known for their rational decision-making abilities. There's a reason we tell people to wait a year, or even longer, before making big decisions. There's a reason we devote whole branches of psychology to studying the effects of trauma. PTSD is no longer one monolithic thing, but a whole spectrum of defined conditions.

    This, I think, is where the current phobias come from: a well-meaning but sorely misguided attempt to make decisions by empathizing with people who are in no condition to make those decisions. Pathos has its limits, and we have arrived at the current state by ignoring those limits. Certainly empathy has its place when it comes to the healing process, but when the time comes to make big decisions, we need to step back and look at things more rationally, even when rational thought means accepting the status quo.

  17. risk takers by mdsolar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the article gets one important point rather wrong. Those who take risks tend to be those coming out of the most secure backgrounds. This is pretty much the core observation leading to Plato's Republic. If you grow up at risk, you are less likely to chose risk than if you grow up secure. Now, our response to 9-11 might be too large, but it is not owing to being risk adverse. It is more a function of having a privileged and sheltered decider ready to risk a lot, even our civil liberties, to carry out a family vendetta.

    Douglas Adams got it much closer. It was being sheltered and safe that led to the krikkit wars.

  18. Humans are bad at small numbers by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact is, for the western world, risk is largely eliminated. Plague, famine, pestilence, and war - all are pretty nonexistent in the civilized world.

    We evolved to deal with immediate, natural risk.

    I'd suspect that the human brain is rather good at this in the aggregate - witness, for example, the breadth of 'home remedies' or natural herbs etc that have been determined to actually have some sort of core chemical that (surprising to scientists) actually DOES have a beneficial effect.

    So now we're reduced to worry, more than risk-management.
    Rather than facing starvation, we worry that we're eating too much.
    Rather than facing working day and night to barely survive, we worry that we're too sedentary.
    Rather than face the constant risk of agonizing death from the billions of germs trying to kill us like Typhus and Diptheria, we worry that there *might* be a vanishingly small cumulative risk of cancer from the additives that make our food safe from spoilage, mold, etc.
    Rather than facing the imminent pillage, rape, or murder by a neighbor village that's decided we have something they want, we worry that there might be some crazy zealot somewhere who might harbor some resentment vaguely against our society.

    Seriously, I suspect that worry is endemic to the human creature. If we don't have actual things to be concerned about, we invent / inflate them to fill that psychological space.

    Oh, and Cracked has a wonderful article on this: http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-reasons-news-looks-worse-than-it-really-is/

    --
    -Styopa