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Sleep Found To Replenish a Type of Brain Cell
New submitter wrackspurt writes "Sleep deprivation has long been thought to be prevalent in the industrialized world. A new study (abstract) explains one very good reason why at least seven hours of sleep a night is necessary. Quoting the BBC: 'Sleep ramps up the production of cells that go on to make an insulating material known as myelin which protects our brain's circuitry. ... The increase was most marked during the type of sleep that is associated with dreaming - REM or rapid eye movement sleep — and was driven by genes. In contrast, the genes involved in cell death and stress responses were turned on when the mice were forced to stay awake.'"
If I don't get an ample amount of sleep at night, I am absolutely useless for any sort of skilled work.
Sig: I stole this sig.
So where can i get some myelin? hehe
Anveto
I don't understand this article. Couldn't sleep last night.
Back in the 80's, I constantly heard "You'll sleep enough when you're dead." or "Sleep is for wimps."
And sleeping was for "lazy" people.
I'm glad that we are becoming enlightened about the importance of sleep and that if anything, sleep makes one operate at their best.
May provide for insights into research on multiple sclerosis, a disease in which the body attacks its own myelin sheaths around nerves.
"A lot of people believe in working long days and doing double,triple, or even quadruple shifts. I’m not one of them. Neither Transmeta nor Linux has ever gotten in the way of a good night’s sleep. In fact, if you want to know the honest truth, I’m a firm believer in sleep. Some people think that’s just being lazy, but I want to throw my pillow at them. I have a perfectly valid excuse, and I’m standing by it: You may lose a few hours of your productive daytime if you sleep, oh, say, ten hours a day, but those few hours when you are awake, you are alert and your brain functions on all six cylinders. Or four or whatever."
from "Just for Fun: The Story of an Accidental Revolutionary" by Linus Torvalds and David Diamond
Is it possible that controlled sleep deprivation could result in the culling of strictly unnecessary brain cells, so that the overall result is a more power-efficient brain? The first time I pulled an all-nighter to work on mentally taxing problems, I had to sleep 19 hours to recover. After doing that kind of work regularly, only a few hours or recovery became necessary.
Well, it's one thing to say lack of sleep makes you sleepy and ineffective.
To me it sounds like something else entirely to say the myelin isn't getting replenished -- especially since myelin breakdown has been linked with Alzheimer's and dementia.
So (based on my complete lack of attending med school) ... doesn't this potentially make more longer term problems in the brain?
My read on this is this has much broader implications than how you're going to be ineffective the next day. As in, in the long run, your brain may simply be degrading more than it can keep up with than if you'd had enough sleep over that time.
Next time the wife complains when I go take a nap, I'll remind her that I'm re-building my myelin and I need to do that so I don't get any dumber. :-P
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'd been living with sleep apnea for years, but didn't realize it. I just thought that getting up to pee 3 or 4 times in a night was normal for a 42 year old... Turns out it's not. It was my body's way of trying to figure out why it was awake and concluding it must be because my bladder was full. I did a sleep study and found that I would stop breathing 260 times in the first 3 hours of sleep after which time I started waking up and that was the end of the study... I was fitted with a sleep apnea dental appliance (the TAP3 device) and the first night I slept through the entire night for the first time in years... My wife kept waking up to make sure I was still breathing because I wasn't snoring or making any noise at all. After some adjustment, I can say I sleep like a baby now... I spent a lot of money on matresses and pillows before, thinking it was the bed's fault...
The way the dental appliance works is by extending your lower jaw (as though you have a terrible underbite) which opens up your airway.
Very occasionally, I will forget it when I go somewhere for an overnight, and I sleep like shit those nights... I wake up multiple times, have a sore throat in the morning (from snoring loudly), have no energy, and no motivation.
I've had it for 2.5 years now and can't imagine life without it. I also can't imagine life with a CPAP machine though I hear they work great for some people.
I could feel it killing me, when I was forced to wake up too early as a child. I could feel it stretching my consciousness thin... the most appropriate description for the feeling is the one used by Bilbo Baggins; "... like butter scraped over too much bread."
I predict that next they will discover that while 7 may be an absolute minimum for basic health, some people will need more depending on their brain capacity and "usage patterns." I predict they will eventually discover that having at least 8 hours every night during childhood will prevent the onset of Alzheimer's disease in old age. I further predict that never going under-slept (sleeping in up to even 10+ hours if necessary to stop feeling groggy or "stretched") will eventually prove to extend longevity by 20-50% and cure a whole host of neuroses and other emotional and psychological disorders.
Too many brain cells, and the brain doesn't know how to use them yet?
I wonder if this might have something to do with the rise in rates of ALS and Parkinson's. Both related to degradation of the myelin sheath.
shame some of us work 16 hour days and cant sleep by nature
We have enough studies telling you not to do this particular thing where you feel like complete and utter crap if you do.
Unless you're Michelangelo. Or DaVinci, or Edison...or Napoleon. All people who clearly weren't operating at their best.
(Or Madonna, Jay Leno, Margaret Thatcher...all complete losers by any measure)
No sig today...
Myelin degradation is part of a whole spectrum of neurological diseases. Which makes me wonder about the importance of the TFA's findings - at a very broad level one would expect that chronically sleep deprived people would have a higher incidence of neurodegenerative diseases - something I don't think happens (although that's a WAG of my sleep deprived brain).
Of course, TFA studied utilized some very broad brush assays and basically theorize that when the brain is awake, it tends to repress SOME aspects of myelin precursor production. It does NOT say that pulling all nighters will give you multiple sclerosis.
Interesting, but come back in five years and read the Nature or Science mini review on the subject before snacking on Oligodendrite Precursor laden twinkies.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
What if you don't sleep and just take drugs to boost myelin?
Although it may be too late, it's pretty clear that you need lots more sleep.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
We have enough studies telling you not to do this particular thing where you feel like complete and utter crap if you do.
Well, cool. You must feel pretty proud about learning absolutely nothing from this study except how your preconceived notions (aka "common sense") were correct to brag about it here and bash the authors for their useless work, but personally, I was fascinated by the info about sleep mediating gene activation and its effects on myelin growth.
Providing a mechanism to explain why you feel like utter crap is important -- especially for people who just like to soldier through chronic sleep deprivation and say they can handle it. Turns out, no, you can't -- you're literally killing your brain slowly, and that candle you're burning will run out much quicker. I've been trying to get myself into bed earlier each night, and I've heard studies that tell me that I'm shortening my life by not getting enough sleep, but now I know how and why and that I may be doing long-term brain damage by not fixing that problem, and that provides extra impetus to stop coasting and solve it right now.
This article, in the long run, may save my life (or at least greatly extend it) by giving the final kick in the pants to do something solid about it. (Especially since I'm half-dead today from lack of sleep.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
So, since beer = more dreams at night, beer = more good brain cells? Time to dig out the old college octo-bong.
We have enough studies telling you not to do this particular thing where you feel like complete and utter crap if you do.
Unless you're Michelangelo. Or DaVinci, or Edison...or Napoleon. All people who clearly weren't operating at their best.
(Or Madonna, Jay Leno, Margaret Thatcher...all complete losers by any measure)
I'm not familiar with the medical history of most of those but you do know what happened to Margaret Thatcher, right?
...that all of this is old news?
Dr. W.C. Dementbooks are a good place to start if your interested in an overview of the importance of sleep. Sleep hygiene is probably the idea currently being pushed to the forefront. The idea that a good night's sleep is as much a part of overall health as other good hygiene practices.
We have enough studies telling you not to do this particular thing where you feel like complete and utter crap if you do.
Unless you're Michelangelo. Or DaVinci, or Edison...or Napoleon. All people who clearly weren't operating at their best.
(Or Madonna, Jay Leno, Margaret Thatcher...all complete losers by any measure)
I'm not familiar with the medical history of most of those but you do know what happened to Margaret Thatcher, right?
She's currently suffering severe oxygen deprivation.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You know, I think the militant gays are just angry
But then again I'd be pretty damn angry if I had a dick in my ass too
Alzheimer's, dementia, MS, and others.
This could possibly end up having legal repercussions for those of us expected to forego sleep to do 52 hr stretch, middle of the night, server cutovers.
Which at least relieves her family of pain of having to remind her e.g. that her hisband had died. She doesn't really seem like a poster child for the long term benefits of sleep deprivation.
https://www.google.com/search?q=thatcher+dementia
You forgot "a corporation guided by people chronically on 3 hours' sleep."
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
It's important to sleep as much as possible, to reduce our waking lives to the extent possible.
They never even tested lack of sleep, they tested NO sleep. Why did that even make it through?
The team hasn't even begun to test lack of sleep or different sleeping patterns, yet.
Worse, you even misquote the BBC article of saying such a thing when it never.
Not to mention that the process where it becomes active, REM sleep, happens in cycles, not "AT THE ENND FO SLEEP" like every generic moron that listens to TV thinks. (even a glance at wikipedia would show you that Sleep, yes, there is the graph a few scrolls down)
On average you hit a full cycle in around 90-110 minutes and it repeats a little. (which is why 90 minutes is the best napping time for a reason)
If you want anything of worth back from it, long. Small naps only recharge you a little and leave you groggy, which is why things like polyphasic sleep are too limiting, bi- and tri-phasic sleep are better in that regard since they give the body the time it needs for a cycle.
Siestas have already been proven to be very helpful, and they have been known to decrease overall illness and death in those that practice the "afternoon nap".
Admittedly more research needs to be done in that area, but considering the types that practice it vary from many cultures, countries, climates and dietary intakes, it seems to be the sleep itself rather than the former possible reasons.
Hell, some people don't even need that much, and some require a strange amount of sleep to even feel good.
It varies very wildly from person to person, age to age, and body shape to body shape. (I can't remember if heavier people required more or less sleep, I think it was more and very light required less)
To really be of worth, they will need to research this in their coming experiments.
These findings are very interesting and finding any way to boost these levels would be very helpful since a lack of them is known to be damaging.
Although, a massive increase could also be the reason why it is attacked by autoimmune illnesses, still not sure.
So finding that out too would be extremely useful as then there could be pretty concrete figures on what is likely to lead to neural damage over a long period, or even short period.
I predict the human race will die out within a generation if people follow your suggestions. I also guess you have never had kids.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
The real question for /. is if coffee has the same effect.
Yet another vivid example of the dangers of sleep deprivation.
Note: being a parent doesn't make you automatically right, or even more informed about basic health in any way whatsoever. Convenience to you doesn't automatically make it healthy for the kids either.
Yeah, for instance, the unfortunate souls who have sleep apnea but don't respond positively to the CPAP machine or other devices. It would be nice to have another option for treating those folks (including my dad).
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Look into melatonin to increase your REM sleep.
love is just extroverted narcissism
P.S. you're a sadist. seek help.
Werewolves of London.
Does anyone with an appropriate background know if sleep deprivation will cause olivopontocerebellar atrophy (OPCA)? Is myelin directly involved in this? I ask because OPCA killed a relative of mine, who also suffered from sleep apnea. When this relative began treatment for sleep apnea, their brain didn't seem to atrophy any further. At that point the damage was already so severe that they still asphyxiated.
If you're not interested in the basic research, at least be interested that this is the groundwork for potentially eventually curing humans of sleep entirely.
A 1997 study in the BMJ based upon 918 men age 45–59 found that after a ten-year follow-up, men who had fewer orgasms were twice as likely to die of any cause as those having two or more orgasms a week.[112]
Breaking Even
Ditto with my stint in the Navy. It's one of the main reasons why I was a one-termer. (At least I managed honorable discharge.)
And if you screw up, it seems their idea of compensating for that is to give you a more fucked up sleep schedule. So if you're not careful, it can easily snowball from there.
Could this be related to MS (Multiple Sclerosis)? MS is caused by damage to the myelin sheath covering nerves. Its thought to be related low levels of light, and white blood cells attacking it. Its counter intuitive that low amounts of light and not enough sleep go hand in hand (most people sleep in the dark). But its interesting anyway.
I'm not talking about kids' health. I'm talking about *having* kids. It is impossible to be a parent and consistently get a good night's sleep, thus it is impossible to have our neuroses cured and extend life by 20% without giving up kids. I know one of your lines mentioned childhood but the others do not, and if you meant to imply this is only for kids, that wasn't clear. And if you were talking exclusively about kids, most of them need far more than 10 hours in their early years, so it's confusing either way.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Am I the only one who immediately thought of Alzheimers after reading this? I would wonder if there is a connection between geriatric folks who progressively get less sleep and the onset of Alzheimers.
I just run:
sleep(28800);
at round about midnight.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Having MS, I KNOW sleep is important, vital even. I put ttoo much strain on my myelin-depleted nerves and I sleep for 1-2-3 hours to recover.
She always did, what with having oil where blood should be.
So, the cure is sleeping in? Someone call Steve Hawking!
You're right. Sorry, I did misunderstand the implied context behind your statements, but you missed an important key behind mine too: Going without sleep a few nights now and then won't kill you or significantly injure your brain if you make it up within a day or so, even sleeping in the daylight if necessary. What I'm saying in fact is that being a good little cog in the capitalist machine, early to bed and early to rise and all that, and basically living your entire life on an average of 6 to 6.5 hours of sleep per night is probably many orders of magnitude worse for you than just going without sleep occasionally, or eating junk food, or failure to exercise daily, etc, or shirking any of the other many rules for basic health and well-being we regularly shirk but no longer question the wisdom of.
I'm not arguing against your point at all. I've noticed a direct correlation between the amount of sleep I get and general health. Back-to-back nights of less than 5 hours regularly makes me susceptible to colds, while at another point in my life when I was on a fantastic sleep schedule I went a year and a half without a hint of a sniffle or any other illness, despite living on a crowded college campus and going through the general stresses of higher education. There's also studies correlating poor sleep with weight gain. And that's physical health, not touching on mental health at all.
The statistics on kids, by the way, is that parents are short an average of two hours per night for the first two years. It's not one bad night and then you make it up, it's a long grind. Have two kids and you're talking possibly half a decade of poor sleep, which is not insignificant. Still, if we live through it now, we'd surely live through it even in a world where we got better sleep the rest of the time.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Melatonin is used by your body to synchronize your body clock (circadian rhythm) internally and with the world. As someone with a circadian rhythm disorder, it's not worth it to take melatonin in a random attempt to increase your amount REM sleep. Risking fucking up your body clock isn't worth it. You will harm every part of your life if your clock gets unsynchronized with itself.
I don't mean to be rude, but you sound like a pumpus asshole. You didn't already know this. Many people already knew less sleep is bad for you, but we didn't know exactly why. Now we have identified some tangible effects: more myelin production. Myelin is the main stuff behind things like muscle memory.
Instead of predicting, you can look into what we already known on how and what melatonin does to the body to get your extended longevity and better emotional stability. You feel groggy when you wake up because you are dehydrated (less likely unless you're sleeping 12+ hours) or you still have too much melatonin in your blood stream (more likely). Melatonin production inversely follows how much blue light hits your eyes and roughly tries to follow a 12 hour cycle. Your body wants to make melatonin starting from when you last turn off your TV/night light/laptop/cell phone/etc... until roughly 12 hours later. Melatonin is what makes you feel tired. It also tells your body to run through all it's "nightly recovery tasks". These are things like running through sleep cycles, increased cell repair (fighting cancer), etc... Cutting your melatonin production short (switching on a light or waking up too soon) will halt those activities and thus you won't be at your optimal health.
Emotional stability comes into play when you learn melatonin levels run opposite of serotonin levels. When melatonin levels are high (while sleeping) serotonin levels are low. Meaning you're slightly depressed when sleeping but should be happy when awake. When you wake up too soon, you're melatonin levels are still high and your serotonin levels are still low. Thus you'll feel depressed and tired and won't be off to a good start.
Many people use caffeine to mask melatonin's sleepiness effects. If you wake up tired, turn off the lights sooner before you go to bed (or only use amber or red lights). Caffeine doesn't wake you up, it only hides feeling tired while the excess melatonin is filtered out of your blood stream. Your body isn't fooled, it didn't have enough time to repair.
It does explain her adherence to extremist economic policies, though.