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Leaked Documents Detail Al-Qaeda's Efforts To Fight Back Against Drones
An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post reports, 'Al-Qaeda's leadership has assigned cells of engineers to find ways to shoot down, jam or remotely hijack U.S. drones ... In July 2010, a U.S. spy agency intercepted electronic communications indicating that senior al-Qaeda leaders had distributed a "strategy guide" to operatives around the world advising them how "to anticipate and defeat" unmanned aircraft. The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) reported that al-Qaeda was sponsoring simultaneous research projects to develop jammers to interfere with GPS signals and infrared tags that drone operators rely on to pinpoint missile targets. Other projects in the works included the development of observation balloons and small radio-controlled aircraft, or hobby planes, which insurgents apparently saw as having potential for monitoring the flight patterns of U.S. drones... Al-Qaeda has a long history of attracting trained engineers ... Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the self-proclaimed architect of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, holds a mechanical-engineering degree ... In 2010, the CIA noted in a secret report that al-Qaeda was placing special emphasis on the recruitment of technicians and that "the skills most in demand" included expertise in drones and missile technology.'"
Should we be prosecuting them?
Better pay, free food, "20% time" to work on individual plots to destroy Israel, and of course, 72 geeky virgins.
Designed to create the belief:
1 - Intelligence intercepts and interrogations are effective at getting information that "protects" "us".
2 - Drones are an effective weapon against "our" "enemies" and not principally dangerous to villagers and local civic functions.
But WHY do you believe ANY public information from an agency that has DECEIT in its charter?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I'm guessing every other military in the world is also interested in a defence against drones.
You dont think their CIA/SAS handlers in the Soviet/Chechen days passed on a few hints about what a nation state will be seeking/expect and how to play the system?
As for the contractor boondoggle aspect - funding is flowing for drones, the targeting chips and the huge generational upgrades.
Contractors based around the manned systems might be pushing back by bringing "intercepted messages" or "chatter" out to bolster their hold on huge contracts.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I can't believe the summary mentioned Khalid Sheik Mohammed without mentioning that he's not just any trained engineer -- he designed a classified vacuum cleaner .
Sheesh...and they call this "News for Nerds"....though come to think of it all the true nerds already knew this!
I don't think that most US citizens are against intervention. I really think most voters really do want something to be done, the hard part is figuring out what that something is.
As for Putin, he's probably wrong if experience is any indicator. He doesn't want the US to do anything; obviously having the US do something bad is bad for the world, but at the same time having the US do something good is bad for Putin's self image at home. Ie, Russia still wants to consider itself one of the two superpowers in existence even though it has lost tremendous power since the breakup of USSR, so being ignored by the US is a huge loss of face. Putin maintains a lot of power in Russia by being perceived as a strong man who can stand up to the outside world.
As well, Russia has strong ties to Syria in several ways. Russia wrote off much of Syria's debt, and there is arms investment in Syria from Russians. So there's a vested interest in keeping the Syrian government afloat. Russia has influence in Syria, and it's one of the last places in the region where it does have that influence. Losing Syria and the naval base there would similarly be a big loss to Russia's self image as an important superpower.
So yes, it is in Putin's self interest to claim that the Syrian rebels are dominated by Al Qaeda and that Assad is the good guy.
Thats the Cocaine Import Company :)
As for an ongoing war on a tactic, most nations surviving double tap drone strikes would have their nations best and brightest thinking about their airspace.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Would work in principle, but I don't think these little planes have either the speed or the agility. If it became a problem, the drones to then be equipped with some kind of heat sensors that could make avoiding them become rather trivial, at which point their best hope would be to somehow train birds to fly into these drones.
GPS spoofing - I don't know for certain, but I don't think it would be difficult at all to add RSA signing to the timing beacons, even if they did it to existing satellites in orbit. Maybe not the older members of the constellation (which are constantly being phased out,) but the newer ones for sure. Something akin to that is long overdue anyways. As far as all out jamming goes, there is already ample technology available to allow navigation in small areas without the need for GPS, just enough to seek and destroy targets in a given area after reconnaissance photography has already been taken (which it presumably has been, unless we're just blindly picking targets.)
Unless Al-Qaeda can secure some automated targeting systems of its own (i.e. unmanned interceptors) their chances of waging a successful war against these drones is rather non-existent.
These drones are pretty fucking scary to be anywhere near the receiving end of, and if you ask me, the fact that being in Al-Qaeda puts you in their crosshairs is a pretty good deterrent to recruitment - or at least it should be to any sane person (but the religious viewpoints of its members sort of rules out sanity.) I think at best this might be their way of saying "we're doing something about the drones" when in reality they are probably making approximately zero progress, but saying they are making progress might be good enough to help with recruitment efforts.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Or that al-Qaeda is yet another big organization pushing for an increase in the H-1B visa quota.
FTA:
al-Qaeda was placing special emphasis on the recruitment of technicians and that "the skills most in demand" included expertise in drones and missile technology
In this job market they shouldn't have too much trouble.
Not that I'd ever do it myself of course, but just out of curiosity, how much do they pay?
Bad people have cells.
Good people have teams.
Useless people have focus groups.
Self-serving parasites have Six Sigma groups.
I can't put myself in the head space of someone who would go there. The only aspect of the profiles I happened upon suggest most recruits are twenty somethings with a hormonal state that pushes them to "adventure" and status. I just can't get there from where I am. The world's moving so fast away from the mindset of fundamentalists like al-Qaeda that were they not so psychotically violent they'd be pathetic and pitiable.
"I don't think that most US citizens are against intervention."
Reuters poll of from yesterday -- 56% oppose intervention in Syria, 19% support intervention.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/03/us-syria-crisis-usa-idUSBRE97T0NB20130903
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Wikipedia puts the F-35A at a per unit cost of just over $150 million.
Drones are far from cheap. Wikipedia puts MQ-1 Predator unit cost (as of 2010) at $4.03 million. How is that cheap?
F-15 Eagle: $30 million
F-14 Tomcat (Top Gun): $38 million
F-18 Hornet: $41 million
F-22 Raptor: $139 million
That's how it's cheap. Throw in the fact that when you shoot down a drone, you don't lose a pilot that cost years of expensive training that could easily run into a fair fraction of a million dollars to replace, and drones are as cheap as dirt.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
We're supposed to be afraid of these douchebags? We're supposed to fear their engineering "prowess"? Is that what this is supposed to mean?
They make underpants bombs that won't even work under the best of circumstances. I grew up in the Cold War. I feared Russian engineering, because they actually could lob a *nuclear* tipped missile over the North Pole or from a submarine (they never solved the "launch from under water" thing, though). And the both the Bush and Obama administrations were calling these underpants bombs "sophisticated." Bullshit. Complete, utter bullshit. You know what's sophisticated? Over-the-horizon radar. ICBMs. Nuclear submarines. Tsar Bomba even if it was impractical.
What is not sophisticated: IEDs. ANFO bombs. Flying planes into buildings. These are not sophisticated. These can be pulled off by people of average intelligence and just enough insanity to believe in their bullshit cause.
"But they have a world-wide network of engineers!!!1111ONE@#$@#$R"
What a lot of crap. All the engineering in the world isn't going to help you if you can't implement your "master plan" and the only logistics that they seem capable of is ground fightin' and IEDs. Bring down drones? There are governments that have been throwing money at this problem and Iran got just *one* drone to show for all their work, and it's even disputable that they got it by jamming GPS (which is possible if you've got a loud enough transmitter and a crappy enough receiver). That's not much of a return on investment.
When all you have is a bunch of mentally-ill (because this kind of religious devotion is mental illness) engineers and suicidal foot-soldiers, you really don't have a lot of bright people. You have dolts. Dedicated, but not too bright. Because if they were bright... well... I'll leave you with this apropos quote:
--
BMO
... they are not supposed to defend themselves....
Thank god. The CIA makes SURE that the TRUTH is out there! Like, way, way out there...
In Dec. 2012 it was reported Said al-Shihri, supposedly an "al Qaeda number two", was killed.
It was the third time, according to "official sources", informed by Intelligence, the US reported they'd killed him
And another Three-fer was Abu Yahya al-Libi, which the US claimed to have killed 2 times before they yet again claimed to have killed him in June 2012.
Damn! This US intelligence is SO GOOD it kills "Al Qaeda" guys THREE TIMES!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_cell_system provides some background.
Ireland is really a great place to start in terms of operational cells and how the UK was able to 'buy'/'spy' their way in once a few members where connected.
If the enemy get in deep, internal security structure can be persuaded to hunt their own cells.
Cells were great for sneaker net but with todays cell and net use - its getting more tricky.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
They got Stinger, radio networks, help with bunkers, tactics, weapons systems, a clear understanding of Soviet air transport.
The US and UK worked hard with what they had.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I think living in the middle east or in any muslim country tends to put you in their crosshairs. Can't you just shoot down the drowns with anti-aircraft guns or a shoulder fired missile?
No, because:
1. They fly awfully high.
2. Shoulder fired missiles like the Stinger are "heat seeking." The exhaust of drones are thermally attenuated through various means because of this..
3. You have to actually see them - either on radar or visually. Since AlQ doesn't have radar, they rely on sight only. The paint schemes on these drones make them really difficult to see visually.
4. If you can't see them visually or on radar, can you hear them? At the heights they fly at and the low noise engine...that's a big-fat No.
Drones aren't your dad's model aircraft.
--
BMO
Throw in the fact that when you shoot down a drone, you don't lose a pilot that cost years of expensive training that could easily run into a fair fraction of a million dollars to replace
Don't forget the Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) team that may be sent into harms way if we hear from the pilot once he is on the ground. For example when an F-16 pilot went down in Serbia, O'Grady, the rescue force included 2 CH-53 transport helicopters, 2 AH-1 helicopter gunships, 2 AV-8 ground attack jets, their crews and 51 Marine infantryman. The AH-1's took missile fire but successfully evaded. The CH-53's were hit with small arms fire.
Bad people have cells.
I thought all people have cells? Some even have brain cells!
I was debating as to whether to feed the anti-US trolls on here, but you've made the points I would have cited. The standoff (distance from the object to the UAV) is a "good distance," they'll never overcome. And if they did try to remotely send a small plane, well, there's an RF signal for us to home in on via many means, with many different people who can "come to visit and bring great tidings of joy." If Iran can't do it, a state-level agency,then these guys very likely can't. Take a look at GPS II-F and III Block specs (e.g. M-band, etc). We already have features deployed and more to follow that defeat jamming and spoofing. For anyone interested in reading technical facts, rather than spouting ignorant barbs, check out GPS World. Read this month, and go back about 3-4 issues. They specifically write about jamming and spoof defeats. OK, so AQ just started hiring Engineers to develop this? We've had engineers in the US working on this for over a decade.
It's not just the purchase price; the F-22, for example, costs $68,362 per hour to fly. That's $4M every 60 hours. Even the relatively lowly F16 is over $20K per hour to fly. The Reaper by comparison is $3.6K/hr. Now consider how many hours they rack up with the types of missions that drones have enabled. That is how they are cheap.
4 camels a year, a top bunk in the cave barracks, and a an account at Hassan's House of Hummus.
No health/vision/dental, but the life policy has the standard 72 virgin payout.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
It's possible that many people "want something done" while realizing that the military strikes proposed by Obama aren't the right something, or that there is no effective "something" to do. I would have been in the majority in that poll, counted as "opposed". I DO want somebody smart to come up with some effective action. I do want something done, and understand there's nothing we CAN do that will help.
Of course "most Americans" are probably busy watching Honey Boo Boo and have no idea who "Assad" is.
... They use bombs to target only random innocent people and that is so evil it's hard to comprehend, so getting targeted by drones even when hiding their cowardly asses behind their women and children is completely fair in every way.
Wait, let me get this right. You are saying since they kill innocent people it's okay for us to kill innocent people?
Be seeing you...