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No Child Left Untableted

theodp writes "Made possible by a $30 million grant from the Dept. of Education's Race to the Top program, the NY Times reports that every student and teacher in 18 of Guilford County's (NC) middle schools is receiving a tablet created and sold by Amplify, a division of Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation. The tablets — 15,450 in all — are to be used for class work, homework, educational games — just about everything. With a total annual per unit lease cost of $214, Amplify was the low bidder of those responding to Guilford's Race-to-the-Top RFP, including Apple. Touted by Amplify as one of the largest tablet deployments in K-12 education, the deal raised some eyebrows, since Guilford's School Superintendent once reported to an Amplify EVP when the latter was the superintendent of Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools, coincidentally a proving ground of the Gates Foundation. Amplify and the Gates Foundation are partners on a controversial national K-12 student tracking database that counts the Guilford County Schools among its guinea pigs. Getting back to the hardware, after putting their John Hancock on a Student Tablet Agreement and the Acceptable Use Guidelines for Tablet, students are provided with an ASUS-made tablet "similar to ASUS MeMO Pad ME301T" ($279 at Wal-Mart). The News & Record reports on some glitches encountered in the first week of the program, including Internet connectivity issues affecting about 5% of the tablets."

214 comments

  1. annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Annual per unit lease cost of $214 that would get you a new Nexus one every year. Someone is making a pretty penny (or dime)

    1. Re:annual of $214! by wjcofkc · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's just the hardware. Now, at $214 a pop, that is orders of magnitude less expensive than textbooks. This leads us to the question of the educational software running on these units, who makes it and how much it costs. I also need convincing that school books on a tablet are at least as effective as textbooks. Not to mention, while we may be sparing children of back problems, what is the long term affect on a students eyes when they are staring at back lit tablets all day and far more than the average tablet user?

      Then again, if the material is not being standardized by Texas, that's a win win I suppose.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    2. Re:annual of $214! by khallow · · Score: 1

      Now, at $214 a pop, that is orders of magnitude less expensive than textbooks.

      Per year. It isn't orders of magnitude less expensive than textbooks, even if one leases the textbooks like one is leasing the tablets.

    3. Re:annual of $214! by dfghjk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Now, at $214 a pop, that is orders of magnitude less expensive than textbooks."

      You don't know what an "order of magnitude" is. Textbooks do not cost $20,000+ per year per student in K12 or anywhere else.

      $200 could buy a tablet outright rather than lease for a year. eBook software won't change that equation and other educational software is value-add a book can't offer.

      And, of course, the horrors of exposing children to display screens. We couldn't possibly know the effect of that by now!!!

    4. Re:annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you believe the electronic textbooks on the devices magically appear out of thin air?

    5. Re:annual of $214! by slick7 · · Score: 2

      You don't know what an "order of magnitude" is. Textbooks do not cost $20,000+ per year per student in K12 or anywhere else.

      ... We couldn't possibly know the effect of that by now!!!

      Sure we do, we can watch them on the installed video camera, watch what they type on the installed key-logger, listen to what they say on the installed microphone, and when necessary, alter the text material ala 1984.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    6. Re:annual of $214! by gmuslera · · Score: 2

      Should be at the very least cheaper to make and distribute than the paper ones, if not just free in a way or another. And textbooks are not the only way to teach, there is a lot of educational resources on internet, from Khan Academy videos to Wikipedia.

    7. Re:annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually an order of magnitude would not be $20,000+, it would be $2,000+.

    8. Re:annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Now, at $214 a pop, that is orders of magnitude less expensive than textbooks."

      You don't know what an "order of magnitude" is. Textbooks do not cost $20,000+ per year

      Are you sure you know what an order of magnitude is?

    9. Re:annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stop reading that textbook and get on Wikipedia, Timmy!"

    10. Re: annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure he does. The original post said orders, implying more than one.

    11. Re:annual of $214! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But we all know that won't happen. Yes, there are many free resources available that are better than a grand majority of these expensive, low-quality textbooks, but they won't use them; the textbook companies would stand to lose too much money over such a thing.

      The government could have hired experts, made textbooks, and released the books into the public domain years ago, but they didn't, and it's because of pure greed.

    12. Re:annual of $214! by glassware · · Score: 4, Informative

      My daughter's school just purchased a few classrooms full of iPads, and received a gift from the parent teacher association for electronic whiteboards with projectors.

      Yet on the opening day of school I was sent home a list of art supplies (markers, crayons, glue sticks, construction paper) that the school couldn't afford to buy, and they wanted each parent to buy and contribute supplies to the classroom.

    13. Re:annual of $214! by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but where would the government find people who know the subject, and are experts in the field of teaching?

    14. Re:annual of $214! by P-niiice · · Score: 1

      'Experts' don't matter to the approximately 50% of Americas who would believe that the government textbooks would lead to kids brainwashed into communism. At least until a president of the correct party got into office.

    15. Re: annual of $214! by iamhassi · · Score: 0

      Would you rather the school supply the crayons and parents supply the iPads?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    16. Re:annual of $214! by PodcampWhit · · Score: 1

      The issue in our school district is that text book replacement has historically been on a ten year cycle(!) and that new ebooks or texts with ebook components aren't always ready when the text book purchasing cycle comes up, leaving school between a rock and a hard place in making both tech and text purchasing decisions at the moment. Add in tight school budgets, and you have a lot of short term decisions made in what should be a longer term strategic investment.

    17. Re:annual of $214! by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Well kind of. You use the internet to wirelessly download them.

  2. BYOD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are the students allowed to bring their own device if they already own a tablet? I know I wouldn't want to use a computer offered up to me by the state. I'd much rather buy my own if it's a required item.

    No I didn't RTFA.

    1. Re:BYOD? by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "I'd much rather have my rich daddy buy my own."

      FTFY. Slashdot's rather unrepresentative of society.

    2. Re:BYOD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "student" is the wrong word, for that age and type of school it really should be "pupil".

    3. Re:BYOD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are the students allowed to bring their own device if they already own a tablet? I know I wouldn't want to use a computer offered up to me by the state. I'd much rather buy my own if it's a required item.

      Read "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow (http://www.amazon.ca/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765323117) for some insight into school-provided notebook computer which easily could have been tablet computers.

    4. Re:BYOD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's sorta right though. You can just about buy one for what they're leasing them out per year. Seems like it'd be a lot better for the school to just subsidize the buying of tablets by students.

    5. Re:BYOD? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Read "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow ...

      Please don't post these sorts of things anonymously, Cory.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re: BYOD? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Students bring whatever calculator they want for calculus, why not whatever tablet they want? If all the classes are accessible through a browser what does it matter? But then do you really want to connect your personal tablet to the schools network?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    7. Re:BYOD? by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      If the school is planning to develop apps for the tablets, it's much easier if all the students have the same model of tablet. Having multiple OSes involved would be even more of a challenge; suppose some showed up with iPads, some had Surfaces, and some had Android tablets? (And throw in the stray Playbook or two if you want to be obscure.)

    8. Re:BYOD? by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      I'd mod this "funny" but I already commented on this topic. Cory isn't the sort to be anonymous, ever. And Little Brother is a wonderful book that can be downloaded for free: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/

    9. Re: BYOD? by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      I really want to not use a "cloud device" at school at all. And certainly not as a substitute for real textbooks, which I like to feel and scrawl on and hold open at awkward angles.

      And I say that as someone who brought a Psion palmtop computer to school when everyone else was still on pen+paper and thought me a dork for doing so.

  3. Could you have gotten any more links in there? by jayhawk88 · · Score: 1

    Maybe linked to the Race to the Top website, a link to the definition of "annual"?

    1. Re:Could you have gotten any more links in there? by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      In other word, you visit a page using http, aka hyper text transport protocol, you got served some hypertext, AND YOU COMPLAIN???

      If the author of the web were here, it would get mad. What was his name, Steve Jobs or something like that....

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    2. Re:Could you have gotten any more links in there? by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Usually it's more much annoying when the submitters don't use links, particularly when using jargon and acronyms that aren't common knowledge to slashdotters. It's really not much harm to overdo it. So I'll say pass.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    3. Re:Could you have gotten any more links in there? by istartedi · · Score: 1

      The more links, the better the story. Just like more technology makes for better educational outcomes.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:Could you have gotten any more links in there? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other word, you visit a page using http, aka hyper text transport protocol, you got served some hypertext, AND YOU COMPLAIN???

      Yes. Because too many links make the article hard to read and obscure the most relevant links.

    5. Re:Could you have gotten any more links in there? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Well done.

      (Safe for work or home view.)

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  4. Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What we really need is well paid and highly motivated teachers with small class sizes. Not yet another way for students to play angry birds.

    Of course the ones making decisions know this, but they're happy taking the tech sector money. And a class full of little kids with tablets make good press and website pictures.

  5. How is this fixing things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fix college costs
    Fix no child left behind
    Fix the system - stop patching it.

    1. Re: How is this fixing things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a whole bag of shush for you.

  6. No Child Left Untableted by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That headline fills me with unease. Sounds vaguely improper.

    Maybe I'm just getting old but in my days, children were simply never verbed. It isn't polite.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:No Child Left Untableted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now kiddies, take your Ritalin!

    2. Re:No Child Left Untableted by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      "Today in class, we are going to learn how to English! Please pull out your copy books."

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    3. Re:No Child Left Untableted by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      > Now kiddies, Ritalin yourselves!
      Fixed that for you.

      Newspeak, here we come! UNTABLETED!!!!!

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    4. Re:No Child Left Untableted by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      The whole summary is a mass of vague insinuations trying to make you think something bad is going on. The deal "raised some eyebrows". The company selling the tablets is part of a "controversial" program using students as "guinea pigs". 5% of the students had "glitches" with internet connectivity during the first week. Gasp! Clearly this whole program is evil and corrupt!

      In short, this is someone trying to push their own opinion about something while disguising it as news

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    5. Re:No Child Left Untableted by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      The "raised some eyebrows" link actually removes suspicion, since Amplify was the lowest bidder and responsive, making that whole phrase completely flamebait. The "partners" link does not show how Amplify is involved, and the "guinea pigs" link shows that Gates, Carnegie, and Amplify funded the inBloom project, which was initiated by the Council of Chief State School Officers, and the National Governors Association. In other words they just provided money, apparently.

      I popped in to call you an idiot, but it's actually even more trollish than you made it sound.

      I'm personally against these sorts of initiatives, but I suppose that without some guinea pigs we won't know if I'm right.

    6. Re:No Child Left Untableted by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      I popped in to call you an idiot, but it's actually even more trollish than you made it sound.

      Thank you. ;)

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    7. Re: No Child Left Untableted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the old days, children were taught. Find the verbs. ;)

    8. Re:No Child Left Untableted by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Verbing weirds language.

      (Obligatory Calvin and Hobbes.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  7. 3.3 million down the drain by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    per year out of tax payer pockets. Please stop doing it for the children because everything you do sets them back even further. Smaller class sizes? Boon for teachers union, bane for tax payers. Students? Show me the improved test scores. New math? Fail. "Smart" classrooms? Fail.

    It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline. The US has sunk hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions, over the decades to "fix" education with absolutely no positive results. Perhaps it was not broken in the first place.

    1. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline.

      Cite? I'm sure they were much better at learning by rote, but let's talk heuristic ability if you want to bring it up.

    2. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How was education in black and minority communities pre-WWII? The education system always sounds bad because there is a large variance that brings down averages.

    3. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline.

      Are you sure about that?

      So you're honestly expecting us to believe that little Johnny and little Jenny knew how to use modern PCs, laptops, mobile phones and tablets back in 1925? You're telling us that they knew how to develop software for these devices?

      You're also telling us that they knew about the moons of Saturn that weren't discovered until within the past few decades?

      And they also knew about the double-helix structure of DNA?

      Cut the crap, Larry. They weren't "better educated" then. They just had to know a different subset of knowledge, one that is much less useful today. Likewise, modern students know things that students (and even the most knowledgeable experts!) of the 1920s and 1930s knew absolutely nothing about.

    4. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Testing proves it. Inability of average student to perform basic functions proves it, such as finding New York on a global map.

    5. Re:3.3 million down the drain by MacTO · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The [i]fact[/i] is that students [b]pre[/p] WWII were better educated in every discipline because people dropped out of school. Prior to the second world war, the high school graduation rate was virtually always below 50% (contrast that to over 70% today). Even citing a figure that high is misleading because the graduation rate had been consistently increasing from 10% to 55% between the wars and there were a substantial number of drop-outs as early as the elementary grades. And all of that assumes that they were better educated. Much of the knowledge that we feed to students today was being developed during WWII, so those pre-war students could have hardly learnt it.

    6. Re:3.3 million down the drain by stewsters · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'd wager a highschool kid with a computer and a programming course could do more math problems per hour than a million pre WW2 students. Things people learn change as the importance changes. Most college students know more calculus than Archimedes, does that make them better at math? Measuring knowledge across time is not a valid test.

    7. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Mitchell314 · · Score: 2

      [citations needed]

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    8. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An average student today would browse to Google Maps, search for "new york", and be presented with the information they need.

      Rote memorization is really a useless skill these days, especially for facts that are retrieved infrequently.

      It's a lot like the situation with those Indian Java "programmers" who can quote you namespace-qualified class names and method signatures, yet they can't write even simple loops or conditionals correctly. Yeah, maybe they can regurgitate API facts better than an American or European programmer, but they can't get any real or useful work done. The ability to do, which the Americans and Europeans tend to have, far outweighs the ability to memorize.

    9. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Get your former corporate employee appointed a position in government.
      2) Take the tax payer money and give it to the corporation on schemes like this.
      3) Profit.

    10. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers, tablets and mobile devices are tools they don't create intelligence.

    11. Re:3.3 million down the drain by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Amplify was the low bidder of those responding to Guilford's Race-to-the-Top RFP,

      So being the low bidder is all that matters?

      That's easy... put Linux on it; or make it out of paper

    12. Re:3.3 million down the drain by glueball · · Score: 1

      So you're honestly expecting us to believe that little Johnny and little Jenny knew how to use modern PCs, laptops, mobile phones and tablets back in 1925? Blah blah blah

      No, they didn't know about it while in school. They invented it.

    13. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wrong, lack of basic information between the ears, not being on readily "on tap", means a person can't form a proper mental model to understanding any issue where geographical configuration is key. They won't understand why Russia, for example, would be much more interested in not having external forces involved in a civil war in the nearby trading partner. They wouldn't understand why a hurricane making landfall from state A to state D would also involve states B and C.

      You are deluded that education in prior decades was solely focused on rote memorization, as writing, speech making and speech, and solving problems from principles was also taught.

      Today's java programmer, to use your example against you, relies on frameworks instead of understanding the basic construction and implementation of the basic objects of the language, and so fails to recognize bad code in an interview. This is what I see at work with interviewees. Yes, they *could* "google it", but they won't when sitting and writing code.

    14. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, your average US high school student lacks basic principles to do math, let alone make algorithms to automate the doing of math. You imagine an average student could automate the finding of a square root with just addition and subtraction and multiplication and branch after compare being the only operations allowed? The average student has no idea how to find a square root by any means other than pushing a button on a calculator, but even then could not give any situation where a need for a square root would be useful.

    15. Re:3.3 million down the drain by fermion · · Score: 2
      First, money down the drain. In any corporate venture acquisition costs are only part, and often not the majority cost, of utilizing a capital item. For instance, when I was working at a University about 50% were added to most purchase orders to pay for acquisition and running costs. At schools, which tend to pay for future costs, such as maintenance and supplies, out of the current budget, initial purchase prices always seem a bit high.

      Second, I would strongly argue that pre WWII people were better educated than we are, or than the current generation of kids are. I know many many kids who know more Calculus than I did when I was in high school. Kids now much more about genetics, astronomy, physics that I did at there age. Kids were so dumb back then that, assuming they knew the planets, they thought Pluto was one of them.

      Specifically talking about technology, all money invested is well worthwhile. In my high school we had a mainframe. Best investment the district could have made. We all left high school with skills that were in demand, and with the basis to acquire the skills that would soon be in demand. I am sure everyone was saying 'but can they read' and 'how are the test scores'. But no cared. We were going into the work force to make a lot of money or to the top colleges.

      The key thing was that we were using, what at the time, was pretty advanced if not cutting edge technology to not only learn but to use as a tool to complete tasks. Is your argument that when kids graduate they are going to use pencils and slide rules? Are the females going to be sequester in a room to be human calculators? Maybe they will be manually flying airplanes?

      The thing is that we are educating more kids in more complex techniques and skills that we ever have. Sometime people look at the educational outputs and see some kids that would have traditionally been successful and see them less so and from that infer that education is doing worse. But is it not. On the whole literacy rates have risen. Kids can do simple tasks, like program a DVR, while their parents cannot. The need for the trivia based educational system has been completely proven obsolete by the problem solving tasks that kids need to do know. Machines are so complex that a user manual is too inefficient, and knowing the vernacular of the machines is the only way to be successful. Oxford reports that in 20 years half of todays jobs will be gone. You will not be able to make a living in construction or sales. Technology has already significantly reduced the need for lawyers, the age of the massive law firm and large number of high earning partners is gone.

      Tablets are the way to get machines into every students hands. It is affordable and practical. This is what kids will doing in 20 years. Don't you think it is what we should be teaching them?

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    16. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Americans did not "invent" such technologies. Europeans, trained in Europe, did, even if some of them were working those technologies in America at the time.

      We're discussing the American education system here. Lawrence Bird is claiming, within that system, "that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline."

      Clearly that is not a "fact" like Lawrence Bird here is claiming it is. Those students clearly were not "better educated in every discipline" than students today. There are many disciplines where these students had absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. We can't truthfully say that they were "better educated in every discipline" when so many of the disciplines being considered didn't even exist in the 1920s or 1930s!

    17. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Integrate geoguessr into the curriculum. Problem solved.

    18. Re:3.3 million down the drain by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      How is the education in such communities now? Have you heard a black teacher from the south side of Chicago speak on TV? They only use one vowel (a schwa?) and horrible grammar. Throwing money at the problem has not solved anything.

    19. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fully agreed, no computers before say 16, Blackboard and INK pens ... Dr^2 (Engineering, Law) omb

      Gruzei aus Zürich

    20. Re:3.3 million down the drain by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      The "chiners", as you call them, value education and hard work, like white people used to do. And as blacks should do. Go ahead and call me racist, for wanting people to have a good education and and opportunity to use it.

    21. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Putting the gifted kids together in a classroom with curriculum targeted to gifted kids will do more for our education system than all the programs you mentioned combined.

      The slow kids hold back the gifted kids. This is a readily-observable fact. They create distractions, and they force the teachers to dumb down the lessons so the slow kids can keep up.

      People think that a merit-based division is unfair to the slow kids. This seems to be based on the incorrect assumption that the presence of the smart kids somehow benefits the slow kids. It does not. Often the slow kids just bully the smart kids. And even when that doesn't happen, the smart kids can't accelerate the learning rate of the slow kids.

      The truth is no parent wants their kid put in the slow, or even average group, because everyone wants to believe that their kid is above-average. So, this pride barrier makes education completely unfair to the gifted kids. We hold our best and brightest back to pander to the ululations of the mediocre. It is asinine.

    22. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      It's not race, it's culture, and it can be changed. First, people need to stop thinking it's about race and understand that some cultures have very damaging elements to them.

    23. Re:3.3 million down the drain by istartedi · · Score: 1

      How was education in black and minority communities pre-WWII?

      The first thought that occurred to me was that education in pre-WW2 segregated schools might actually have been better than education in today's "integrated" inner-city schools.

      That's not an argument that segregation was good. It's an argument that today's system is that bad. It's de facto segregated due to White flight. It's also part of a system that cares more about the Democratic Party machine and re-electing politicians than it does educating.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    24. Re:3.3 million down the drain by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      The average student has no idea how to find a square root by any means other than pushing a button on a calculator, but even then could not give any situation where a need for a square root would be useful.

      You touch on a topic that has come up in our own home more than once. I learned how to calculate a square root to arbitrary precision at school some decades ago. It was part of the curriculum for 5th or 6th grade then. Our kids do not learn it at school, even though one is presently doing her matriculation (final exams). It's apparently not in the curriculum any more, and I doubt whether many of the teachers could handle it. I taught our kids how to extract a square root myself. They know how to do it in decimal, and the eldest can do it in other number bases as well.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    25. Re:3.3 million down the drain by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps the answer's not (as the teachers' unions have asserted) simply to keep pouring more cash into the system - particularly when they're going to waste it on ipads.

      Personally, I'd rather see more arts and humanities programs in schools than another class equipped with ipads.

      --
      -Styopa
    26. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amplify was the low bidder of those responding to Guilford's Race-to-the-Top RFP,

      So being the low bidder is all that matters?

      You fail to understand how government-issued RFPs work. The selection process, minus any biases, favours the low bidder. The government calculates cost per unit whether the unit be years of experience (consultant selection) or the unit be number of products (tablet + educational materials selection).

    27. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? You think all these technologies were invented by Europeans? Very hard to take anything you say serious after that.

    28. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking Christ! Do you think there is one black person in America duplicated 10 million times? Black people are different. I had a black science teacher in high school, the best teacher I had, and she taught me stuff I use every day. I had another black teacher who was worthless. Some black people are really smart and some black people are really stupid. If you knew more than one black person, you'd know that.

      Now let's have your 1930s-era stereotypes of Jews, Italians, Chinese and Irishmen.

      (BTW, it's amazing what happens when a black person gets a job that pays well, with advancement in exchange for doing the job well.)

    29. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Useless knowledge for most.

    30. Re:3.3 million down the drain by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Teachers Unions don't want "more money" for the sake of "more money". They one one of the few things to actually have shown to generate better student improvement: Smaller Class Sizes. Now, that means more classrooms, and more teachers. Which, does tend to cost more money.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    31. Re:3.3 million down the drain by dk20 · · Score: 2

      We do the same thing here (Canada). Year after year we are told part of the problem is "large class sizes" and how we need to hire more teachers and reduce this.

      My kids were sent to school in China for a few years.
      While China may have the largest primary class size (37.1 per class) the kids found it much much easier when they came back to Canada.

      Class size wasn't the issue, the work was challenging and the environment was strict.

      Put a Chinese student up against any other and measure the results for yourself.

    32. Re:3.3 million down the drain by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      call it anything you want, point is throwing money at that issue has not solved anytihng

    33. Re:3.3 million down the drain by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      funny, another group of people went through something worse than that for much more than 100 years, and do much better than most. their culture and mindset made a difference

    34. Re:3.3 million down the drain by dk20 · · Score: 2

      Not sure how its done in other areas of the world, but in Ontario (Canada) we started doing this. My daughter is in such a program and loves it whereas when she was in the "mainstream" program she was miserable.

      The main concern we had was your point about bullying. She was somewhat of an "outcast" in the mainstream program and it made going to school difficult (she was only 10 at the time). Once she was tested and transferred to the gifted program her life changed dramatically (both socially and academically). Without the program i'm not sure what would have happened to her but we are thankful for the program and opportunities it presents.

    35. Re:3.3 million down the drain by vux984 · · Score: 1

      I learned how to calculate a square root to arbitrary precision at school some decades ago. It was part of the curriculum for 5th or 6th grade then.

      And when i went to school we "learned" how to do trig functions from angles to 3 to decimals by looking them up in tables in the back of the book. Some things are obsolete. That's been replaced by calculators, and so has square roots.

      Square roots are one of them, the masses have a calculator to do that for them. And the subject of finding roots manually is now grade 12 advanced placement calculus where they do it with newtons method after learning a tiny bit of calculus. (And not just square roots, but other roots as well.)

      The square root methods you and I were taught in 6th grade is now more of a mathematical curiosity that belongs in a higher level mathematics course that explores -why- it works, rather than presents it as a practical method to actually use.

      If I we're on a desert island and was going to find roots (any root, not just square roots) manually today, I'd probably use newtons method if i needed precision, or an intuition guided "binary search" if I was trying to do it in my head and just needed to be in the ball park.)

    36. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      We need an education major who knows all those statistics -- oops! We sent them all off to study hotel management instead.

      Anecdotally, there was an article in I think Slate that looked up old prewar high school exams, and I couldn't pass them today. Some people got a very impressive education before WWII, other people didn't. I found my father's old prewar college math textbooks down the cellar, and his freshman math course was covering stuff I had done in high school, like basic algebra.

      The best data I know of offhand is from the National Assessment of Educational Progress, which tested a good national sample of students every year since 1970 for math and reading. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012026/tables/table_12b.asp

      According to those data, the test results were about level since 1970, with no more than 1-2% variation, not consistently up or down.

      The impressive exception was among black students, who had very low scores in the 1970s (when many of them were attending segregated schools in the South, and even in the north). The scores steadily increased, and the gap steadily diminished, from 1970 to the latest data.

      If you want more data, you can look up the Supreme Court case of Brown vs. Board of Education, which finally outlawed segregated schools, at least on paper. As I recall, they submitted lots of evidence that black students attending segregated schools did much worse than white students or black students attending integrated schools. They also showed that the "separate but equal" schools weren't equal.

      I don't think people realize the extent of segregation and discrimination up to as late as the 1960s, when black people couldn't vote in much of the South, much less go to equal schools. The effects are still with us today.

      Back to your original question, I think the good schools 100 years ago were very good. The bad schools were very bad. A a lot of people think that Catholic schools were very good, but Catholic schools too actually varied greatly in quality, some teaching by rote and some teaching critical thinking. I don't know if you can get valid test data from 100 years ago.

    37. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      When George W. Bush visited England, one of the British tabloids printed a map on the front page with a big arrow pointing to London, and the headline, "WE'RE HERE!"

    38. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      your cartoon is trying to make an incorrect point. those remaining people in africa, in general, also score low on IQ tests. the problem has a different source having nothing to do with the experience of african-americans.

    39. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      You are deluded that education in prior decades was solely focused on rote memorization, as writing, speech making and speech, and solving problems from principles was also taught.

      Yes, and to prove it, look up the Apology of Socrates or Euclid's Geometry on Project Gutenberg (I'm fine with online resources when they make sense).

    40. Re:3.3 million down the drain by F.+Lynx+Pardinus · · Score: 1

      The parent post asked for a citation, which you haven't provided.

    41. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      You're avoiding the core issue, most of today's students have absolutely no idea what for what purposes in the real world the square root is useful. We won't even talk about ignorance of basic trignometric function uses. A person who can only look up any answer to a single fact can't connect facts in their head to understand an issue or solve a problem, because there is nothing there.

    42. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      How was education in black and minority communities pre-WWII?

      The first thought that occurred to me was that education in pre-WW2 segregated schools might actually have been better than education in today's "integrated" inner-city schools.

      No, there's data on that, and it was submitted in the Supreme Court case of Brown vs. Board of Education. The southerners claimed that their schools were "separate but equal," so the lawyers proved they weren't. The schools got far less money, the teachers were less qualified, and the textbooks were hand-me-downs from white schools (30-year-old science and history textbooks).

      If you look up the NAEP data, you'll see that there's been a steady increase in test scores in math and English for black students from 1970 to today, when they're almost equal. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012026/tables/table_12b.asp

      It's also part of a system that cares more about the Democratic Party machine and re-electing politicians than it does educating.

      I've got news for you. The Republican Party machine cares more about re-electing politicians than it does educating, or anything else. Grover Norquist said that he wanted to destroy the government, as long as he can cut his taxes.

    43. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      It would be more accurate to say useless knowledge for mostly useless people.

    44. Re:3.3 million down the drain by vux984 · · Score: 1

      You're avoiding the core issue, most of today's students have absolutely no idea what for what purposes in the real world the square root is useful.

      Not at all, my daughter's in grade 6. The year has just started but square roots and trig in are in the curriculum -- she wont' be calculating them manually, a scientific calculator was on her school supplies list. She'll be answering problems like "what is the length of a square field 5184 m^2, what is the length of a cube shaped box with a volume of 225 cm^3...

      Being able to perform the manual process of finding a square root using the method the OP suggested is little more than magical incantation for a 6th grader. My daughter can do long division manually, but even that, she doesn't -really- understand WHY it works. And I don't recall knowing either when i was in elementary school either. Its just the ritual we were taught.

    45. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Approximating the square root is being taught in the 8th grade. Here is the standard from the common core standards that most states are adopting to try and get some of the race to the top money. 8.NS.2:Use rational approximations of irrational numbers to compare the size of irrational numbers, locate them approximately on a number line diagram, and estimate the value of expressions(e.g., 2). (NS stands for number sense). I teach it in 7th and 8th grade and all of my students can approximate square roots to the nearest whole number and most (over 80%) can find them to the nearest 10th. I teach at a lower socioeconomic school, so most people would consider my kids to be below average (their standardized test scores say they are, for what that's worth). I on the other hand think they are doing a terrific job and I wish people would stop running them down to further their own agendas or because they are believing what these people are saying. These kids are no where near as ignorant as they are being made out to be.

    46. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Culture vulture my ass.

    47. Re:3.3 million down the drain by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      The "official" way of finding a square root in school was to use a calculator. My teacher at the time said that it is one of the few things in math they prefer to completely automate since it is time consuming to do it by hand. Solving by hand went by the wayside before affordable electronic calculators, its one of the reasons why the slide rule was invented.

    48. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      square roots and trig are not in most United States public school curriculum, your daughter is going to private school?

    49. Re:3.3 million down the drain by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Three semesters of Calculus in college and I don't recall solving any square roots. Checking my textbook (I saved it for some reason), its covered in chapter 3. Just goes to show that I haven't used it since then and that I tend to block out the bad memories of taking Calculus (I barely passed it).

    50. Re:3.3 million down the drain by dk20 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are you sure?

      see my post:
      My kids were sent to school in China for a few years.
      While China may have the largest primary class size (37.1 per class) the kids found it much much easier when they came back to Canada.
      Class size wasn't the issue, the work was challenging and the environment was strict.

      Do you have any empirical evidence smaller class sizes pays off? Here (Ontario) they state 90.1% of classes have 20 or fewer students.
      When the kids came back to school here they found it a joke. What they were teaching in Ontario was at least one year behind what they were studying when they were in China.

    51. Re:3.3 million down the drain by istartedi · · Score: 1

      No, there's data on that, and it was submitted in the Supreme Court case of Brown vs. Board of Education. The southerners claimed that their schools were "separate but equal," so the lawyers proved they weren't

      Re-read what I wrote. I didn't say that Black and White schools were equal during segregation. I said it was possible that Blacks attending segregated schools before WW2 were getting a better education than Blacks attending dysfunctinoal inner-city schools today.

      ...increase in test scores in math and...

      So you're on the record that test scores are the measure to use? I'm sure some people would argue against that, but that's beside the point. I'm assuming it's the chart at the bottom of that page you wanted me to look at. It only goes back to 1982. It shows Black scores consistently lower than White--a pattern virtually unchanged from 1982 to 2008, which isn't even the comparison I was discussing in the first place.

      I tried finding data for the relevant period, and it's hard to come by. To reiterate--there's no getting around the fact that Black schools in the South were underfunded, in run-down buildings, with old texts and worse teachers. The question is, is that any better than today's schools in the cities that are also underfunded, run-down, with iPads, tenured mediocrity, students whose parents are drug users vs. oppressed field workers, etc.?

      A real answer to that question seems hard to come by. You're going to get anecdotes at best. I think the opportunities for Blacks are definitely better today than they were then; but if it were possible to chose a Georgia segregated school in 1935, or a Detroit inner-city public school in 2013, which would you pick? That's the question.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    52. Re:3.3 million down the drain by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Phone me when they let us fire the bad ones.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    53. Re:3.3 million down the drain by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline.

      It remains a *fact* that in the 1930s 1 in 20 adults were completely illiterate. By 2000, that number was closer to 1 in 1000, and concentrated among people who are over 65 years old. In the 1930s, well over half of all teenagers dropped out of school, in 2013 that number was down to 22%.

      The US has sunk billions of dollars over the decades to fix education, and as a result the population is much better educated today than it was 75 years ago. That's part of why the US has the most productive workforce on the planet. It was arguably one of the best investments the US has ever made. And it's cost us peanuts compared to the 3 big-ticket items in the US budget, which are (and have been for decades) Social Security, Medicare, and the military.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    54. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, people who don't memorize loads of information without understanding any of it are the majority (because they simply forget if they try). Are they all useless?

    55. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow... I think you need to read this, because it sounds like you don't know what it means to have people truly understanding something (it applies to every subject, but what I linked to talks mainly about math education). I may not be that old, but I am old enough to know that the public school system has never been good; it has always been about producing obedient factory workers. Sure, a few intelligent people do well, but they're a minority, and such people have always existed. By and large, most people have always been unintelligent.

      Wrong, lack of basic information between the ears, not being on readily "on tap", means a person can't form a proper mental model to understanding any issue where geographical configuration is key. They won't understand why Russia, for example, would be much more interested in not having external forces involved in a civil war in the nearby trading partner. They wouldn't understand why a hurricane making landfall from state A to state D would also involve states B and C.

      What you speak of is understanding an issue. Being able to point out random countries on a map has nothing to do with this. You cannot justify such unimaginative, useless processes.

      Now, no one is saying that memorization is always useful, but most of the time, when a school asks you to memorize something, doing so is just a waste of time. If something is important, you will memorize it naturally as you try to understand it, which should be the focus of education. What we don't need is unimaginative rote memorization being the focus of education, which has been going on for a very long time indeed.

    56. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline.

      No, it doesn't. Rote memorization educations were strong even back then. Our public education system has never been very good.

    57. Re:3.3 million down the drain by immaterial · · Score: 2

      Squares and square roots (along with area/volume) and basic pre-algebra are covered in 5th and 6th grade public school, at least here in California. I haven't noticed any trig though.

    58. Re:3.3 million down the drain by vux984 · · Score: 1

      applications of squares and roots are part of the public school curriculum here (via calculator for calculation)... i overspoke when i mentioned trig... it won't be the periodic functions, just geometry (180 degrees in a triangle, finding the other angles from 2 or 1 in a right triangle; sin/cosine/tangent are apparently junior high, although tangent lines to a circle are covered in geometry.)

    59. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think RACE has something to do with it...
      You know, all those sub 70 IQ blacks dragging the average scores down... but we mustn't tell the truth! Diversity is our strength!

      Why do you think white people don't have the right to have their own countries?

    60. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      If I we're on a desert island and was going to find roots (any root, not just square roots) manually today, I'd probably use newtons method if i needed precision, or an intuition guided "binary search" if I was trying to do it in my head and just needed to be in the ball park.

      I think you'd be better off using a shovel.

    61. Re:3.3 million down the drain by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Being able to perform the manual process of finding a square root using the method the OP suggested is little more than magical incantation for a 6th grader. My daughter can do long division manually, but even that, she doesn't -really- understand WHY it works. And I don't recall knowing either when i was in elementary school either. Its just the ritual we were taught.

      I have a (crappy two-year) college degree, and I don't understand why it works either. If a student gets out of public school with mathematics ability, it's not because the school gives a crap.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    62. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had squares, square roots and trig in public elementary school (8th grade) from a podunk town in Missouri and I doubt we're a leader in any curriculum here.

    63. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I read Charles Murray's articles when The Bell Curve came out. I used to read the Wall Street Journal editorial page and also Science, Scientific American and New Scientist, so I got both sides of the argument. I don't remember the details any more but I do remember that not many psychologists agreed with Murray.

      The basic problem was this: If you want to compare the IQ of two "races," you have to get a group from each race that was brought up in the same environment and test them. (You also have to get a valid test in the native language of each group.)

      How can you get a group of native Africans who were brought up in the same environment as whites? If you think it out, it can't be done. How do you get a representative sample of Africans? How do you correct for education? Blacks and white in Africa have different opportunities, occupations, education, income, etc.

    64. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      yes, but was replying to a person about seeing that in 6th grade. It's not there in public school, I'd know.

    65. Re:3.3 million down the drain by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I said it was possible that Blacks attending segregated schools before WW2 were getting a better education than Blacks attending dysfunctinoal inner-city schools today.

      ...increase in test scores in math and...

      Since you're actually taking it seriously I'll look it up. I can't find the chart that would have expressed it clearly but the data here shows that blacks improved significantly from 1970 until today. http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/main2008/2009479.asp

      When you talk about "dysfunctional" inner-city schools you're begging the question. If they're dysfunctional then by definition the functional segregated schools, to the extent that there were any, were better. There may have been some segregated schools that were better than inner-city schools, but I think this data shows that overall the segregated schools were worse than the center-city schools.

      So you're on the record that test scores are the measure to use? I'm sure some people would argue against that, but that's beside the point.

      For the record I'll say that well-designed, statistically valid test scores measure what they're intended to measure. The NAEP was designed to measure educational achievement to evaluate the educational system as a whole, and break it down by certain categories, including race. I think the NAEP data demonstrates that blacks had lower educational achievement in math and reading in 1970, and that their educational achievement increased dramatically from 1970 to 2008. This was contemporaneous with the desegregation of a lot of schools (and workplaces), and I think desegregation was a major cause of the increase.

      The best data says that, overall, black educational achievement increased from 1970 to 2008. The schools that black kids went to in 1970, including a lot of segregated schools, were not doing better, overall, than the schools that black kids were going to in 2008.

      To reiterate--there's no getting around the fact that Black schools in the South were underfunded, in run-down buildings, with old texts and worse teachers. The question is, is that any better than today's schools in the cities that are also underfunded, run-down, with iPads, tenured mediocrity, students whose parents are drug users vs. oppressed field workers, etc.?

      A real answer to that question seems hard to come by. You're going to get anecdotes at best. I think the opportunities for Blacks are definitely better today than they were then; but if it were possible to chose a Georgia segregated school in 1935, or a Detroit inner-city public school in 2013, which would you pick? That's the question.

      I don't know Detroit but I do know New York, and there is a wide range of quality among the public schools. There are millionaires who send their kids to the public schools. There may well have been a segregated school in Georgia whose teachers and parents were so dedicated that they gave a good education. All those black lawyers must have come from someplace. My Gunnar Myrdal books are packed away, so I can't look it up. There probably are teachers and parents in Detroit who are so dedicated that they're giving their kids a good education.

      If you read Diane Ravitch, a former conservative Republican who nonetheless followed the data, you'll see that the main factor associated with educational achievement was family income. Lifting people out of poverty would do a lot of good. Just giving handouts to the poor does a lot of good. But giving handouts to computer consultants or following the latest education fads doesn't seem to do much good.

    66. Re:3.3 million down the drain by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I have to provide source of standardized testing for the past few decades? no I don't, look it up yourself you lazy git.

    67. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      " Perhaps it was not broken in the first place."

      Yes, it has been broken for quite some time. It is a hard problem to solve, since the population is roughly "everyone from 6 to 18 years old" regardless of their home environment, socioeconomic status, genetics, and community. There is not one general solution that works for everyone, and what works one place may be a failure elsewhere for a number of reasons. Fixing it will take lots of trial and error.

      I'm not sure what your problem is with smaller class sizes. About 3.8 million teachers at $50k average (according to census.gov and the BLS for 2011), with about 6 percent coming back as federal taxes (the lower than average probably don't pay much back at all, or it would be closer to 10). 55.5 million grade school students. That averages 14 kids per teacher (quoted as pupil/teacher ratio, 15.1 for 2013 on http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372) , but only if teachers get no planning periods. A rough estimate of reality would be closer to 19 in each class.

      That comes from state money mostly, with a combined state and local budget of $3,233.6 billion, the $211 billion in teacher salary was 6.5% of the spending total. Getting enough teachers for 15 student classrooms would probably need 825 million teachers, adding another 1.625% of spending. This is a problem for you because... teacher's unions? Is 1.6 percent really going to break the bank?

      http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/state_spend_gdp_population

      I see people have eviscerated the remainder of your lunacy. New math was tried and then backed off, "smart" classrooms are not mainstream (unless you mean just having computers), and the rest of what you say just makes you sound like an ignorant crazy person.

    68. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "official" way of finding a square root in school was to use a calculator. My teacher at the time said that it is one of the few things in math they prefer to completely automate since it is time consuming to do it by hand. Solving by hand went by the wayside before affordable electronic calculators, its one of the reasons why the slide rule was invented.

      And your teacher had done you a big disservice by making you miss the chance of learning something.

      How many CS degrees include teaching of sorting algorithms? How many CS graduates will need to actually implement any sorting algorithms, rather than just picking the right one from the language standard library?

      Learning how things work for the learning and not as a vocational training, an amazing concept, eh?

    69. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're avoiding the core issue, most of today's students have absolutely no idea what for what purposes in the real world the square root is useful. We won't even talk about ignorance of basic trignometric function uses. A person who can only look up any answer to a single fact can't connect facts in their head to understand an issue or solve a problem, because there is nothing there.

      You're avoiding all the other core issues by focusing too much on math. Not everyone in the world needs to be a master of mathematics. Being able to manually calculate the square root of a number is not going to help a musician trying to find the right feel within a phrase. Nor will it help a lawyer trying to paint the facts of a case in a certain emotional form. For these people, the square root button on a calculator is more than enough. The tools one needs are defined by what one is trying to do.

    70. Re:3.3 million down the drain by drkoemans · · Score: 1

      It must have made it back in at some point because 3rd graders in my son's language immersion elementary school are doing square roots and long division while instruction is given in either Japanese or Spanish. This is not a gifted school, this is your plain old neighborhood public school that happens to be language immersion. In kindergarten, students were doing multi-digit addition and subtraction and expected to know the numeric value of currency and be able to add and subtract multiple units (12 pennies + 3 quarters + 5 nickles + 3 dollars = ?). I was stunned. We were doing multiplication tables in 3rd grade when I went into public school and that was a big deal.

      From my limited perspective I don't know what all the noise is about regarding the curriculum getting soft in our public schools.

    71. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      Lets be honest about class size and teachers. Why is it good for teachers? Easier to control the class. Fewer exams and homework to grade. More teachers required means those already in place are more senior and less likely to be fired should there ever be cuts (gasp!)

      It has nothing to do with little Johnny.

    72. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      What you cite is purely a function of enrollment rate and not the actual process of educating the students (and in particular enrollment of minorities).

    73. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many students can tell you anything about European history? US history? Ancient Greece? And where are you getting this 'rote memorization' from? Given that math problems had to be solved by hand, data collected and recorded by hand students of that era had to do more than just memorize the multiplication table (and is there something inherently wrong with doing this?) What about literature and writing? Are you seriously going to compare what passes for composition today to those earlier generations?

    74. Re:3.3 million down the drain by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      Teachers are paid for primarily out of local school/property taxes and not only do salaries vary, so to do benefits (pensions, health care, etc). These taxes are paid by everyone, not just those with children in the system. That means granny has been paying school taxes for 50 years after her kids got out of school. These taxes are often larger than the combined town, county and state taxes on a home owner. And like all government workers, underfunded pension plans are a norm and a looming financial dagger. You seem to think that state money and federal money which supplements local school budgets come from the fairy god mother.

      What remains unsaid is you offer no evidence that class size matters. As an example, the school I graduate from now has a class size in the mid teens. When I was a student, our typical class size was near 30. Yet test scores, graduation rates and college acceptance are not changed. The best that research on the topic can say is that it may have a benefit for K through 3. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out this is likely a result of the teacher being better able to maintain discipline over children who generally lack any at that age.

    75. Re:3.3 million down the drain by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Hmm. That must be why smaller classroom size actually HAS an effect on student performance. But hey, don't let facts get in your way!

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    76. Re:3.3 million down the drain by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      So, if I read you correctly, you're basically saying that the money spent to educate minority teenagers is a waste? I'm sure folks like Colin Powell, Barack Obama, and Herman Cain would not agree with you.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    77. Re:3.3 million down the drain by F.+Lynx+Pardinus · · Score: 1

      It takes chutzpah to make an extraordinary claim, then when people ask you for evidence of your claim, call them lazy gits for not debunking you themselves.

  8. OLPC by Badooleoo · · Score: 0

    No more one laptop per child anymore? Should be rolling out one wristwatch per child soon?

    1. Re:OLPC by cookYourDog · · Score: 2

      OBSSPC (One Brain Stem Stapling Per Child) is already being touted as the next big thing.

    2. Re:OLPC by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One basic education in reading, writing, arithmetic, speaking and science per child, using paper and pencil and no computers, would be a superior solution. That's all the education I had as child. I've had no difficulties putting computers to work on engineering, financial, and scientific problems since then. What a fallacy, to think children need "computer skills"; they need thinking skills.

    3. Re:OLPC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no, NO!

      I had to put up with your "paper was good enough for me" math education, and I didn't learn much of anything useful. I just got told, over and over, how I'd find uses for factoring polynomials in the real world and PAY ATTENTION!

      The only class that I really got anything out of, and ONLY when the instructor stopped hammering on procedure and turned to actual theory, was trig. I don't need to know how to derive all of trig from first principles, thank you very much - I just need to know how all those angles relate to each other. Just like calculus - which I took and failed. Six months of derive this, derive that, nothing.

      Finally asked an engineering buddy what calc was good for, and his reply was "Measuring the area under a curve, mostly". The light nearly blinded me - if you can measure the area beneath a curve, you can measure acceleration, and thus do rocket science. How is it done? FOR loops. Newton and Liebniz didn't have FOR loops, but you can't do calculus without iteration, and they were never exposed to Applesoft BASIC as kids, but they worked with what they had and created a primitive form of recursive programming involving a lot of Greek symbols.

      So, yeah, kids need to think. They DON'T need to have the quadratic formula hammered into them for hours on end. They DON'T need homework that could be done in milliseconds by a computer, but that they have to "show all the math" for, and waste hours doing so. In the real world, you really do press buttons on a calculator, because that's what's expected, because as long as you know what you are trying to do, you can check that your output looks good, because the only mistake that a calculator is realistically going to make is having you push its buttons in the wrong order.

      The ivory tower must be smashed, and our kids should be allowed to think.

  9. Teacher Layoffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... Now that they can all learn by themselves, I guess we have no more need for teachers?

    1. Re:Teacher Layoffs by plopez · · Score: 1

      It's called "The Wisdom of Crowds".

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  10. No Correlation by craigminah · · Score: 1

    I don't see how politicians think a tablet/laptop/computer/ebook reader will make students better. Our students are getting worse because of the pervasive attitude that's it's not cool to be good in school. We need to change this perception and reward students who try really hard and/or do well in school...right now it looks like they're just throwing money at a problem to see if it helps and it also seems like they're helping out one of their buddies who's benefitting from this ludicrously expensive lease plan.

    1. Re:No Correlation by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how politicians think a tablet/laptop/computer/ebook reader will make students better.

      Manufacturers have lobbyists.

      Students do not.

      Whose lives do you think politicians are really trying to make better?

    2. Re:No Correlation by dfghjk · · Score: 2

      "We need to change this perception and reward students who try really hard and/or do well in school..."

      That won't be successful as long as the rewards "we" offer are not the ones students want. Education is a cultural issue and our culture is one of lives getting easier and lazier. It will never be "cool" to pursue what your peers don't want.

      Good education requires the expectation of achievement that children take as a given. Instead, we publicly value ignorance over education and today's parents were spoon-fed on that pathetic value system. Using tablets in place of books is entirely beside the point; that are a tactical consideration only.

    3. Re:No Correlation by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      We need to change this perception and reward students who try really hard and/or do well in school

      This (sadly) reminds me of a tale I heard during New York's horrid round of testing last year. Kindergarten students were being tested on the computer and the kids noticed that as they answered the questions correctly, they got harder questions and the test took longer - often resulting in them missing lunch. However, if they answered 5 questions wrong, they were given games to play. Guess what the kids began doing? If you answered "purposefully got the answers wrong to play games" then you win! (Personally, I think they aced the true test of recognizing when the system is stacked against you and finding a way to beat it.)

      It kind of makes me wonder how much of the 30% passing rate is from the tests being absolutely NOT age appropriate, how much was from the tests requiring the kids to answer way too many questions in too short of a time, and how much was from kids saying "Forget this! I'll just answer all B's and get this over with!"

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  11. Well It's Broken Now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    per year out of tax payer pockets. Please stop doing it for the children because everything you do sets them back even further. Smaller class sizes? Boon for teachers union, bane for tax payers. Students? Show me the improved test scores. New math? Fail. "Smart" classrooms? Fail.

    It remains fact that students pre WWII were better educated in every discipline. The US has sunk hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions, over the decades to "fix" education with absolutely no positive results. Perhaps it was not broken in the first place.

    Well it's broken now. So, it needs fixing.

    You seem to be saying we should not fix it?

  12. Big Pharamcologies loves this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    going to mean ADHD for everychild ! ooops Thats no what the article meant.

  13. Wow! by jones_supa · · Score: 2

    The summary has 15 hyperlinks! *head explodes*

    1. Re:Wow! by hammeraxe · · Score: 1

      That's ok, nobody's going to click on them anyway.

  14. Rupert Murdoch? by plopez · · Score: 2

    Will they only be allowed to visit the Fox News site for current event assignments?

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Rupert Murdoch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone caught not using Fox News will be summarily expelled.

    2. Re:Rupert Murdoch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To a Foxconn factory.

  15. Hopeless by dcollins · · Score: 1

    I've stopped even trying to address the absurdity of these initiatives. There will always be administrators looking to get attention with big splashy purchases for no particular reason. I don't see any way to stop it.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:Hopeless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reduce taxes.

      Or is that still a racist stance to take?

  16. Tablet's why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tablets aren't even useful as a computing device, there a gimick/toy. if you want kids to learn about computers give them a pile of parts, if you want to improve the education system start attracting teachers who are good at teaching not failed professionals to whom teaching is now the only alternative.

  17. proper e-books maybe? by metalmaster · · Score: 1

    A tablet per child sounds like a ridiculous way to spend money, but a valid point brought up in a previous article suggests that perhaps a donation is/was made that cannot be spent on any other budgetary concerns. So....kids get tablets.

    Perhaps this can be a good thing though. If we can get a gadget in to every child's hand maybe we can force the hand of major textbook publishers and get them to put out electronic copies of their books that are actually usable. I dont mean "Here is the foreword for the book get a dead tree copy to read the rest" or webpages for chapter objectives that refer back to a 5lbs hard cover book for the rest of the work.

    1. Re:proper e-books maybe? by DogDude · · Score: 2

      Oh, just stop with the "dead tree" and "5 lbs" garbage. Not everybody is a fussy little primadonna that is afraid to carry around a few pounds of real books. There's nothing wrong with using actual textbooks for teaching children. The last thing kids in modern society need are *more* gadgets.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:proper e-books maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your child only takes one subject? 5 pounds might cover the weight of one textbook and a workbook. You still have notebooks, pens, pencils, dictionaries, lunch. Add 5-6 more subjects and a 55 pound kid has a 40 pound backpack. This year at our school they can log into the text books online, that cut the weight of backpack by 24 pounds.

  18. Student remember best by writing notes by Joshua+Fan · · Score: 1

    This is a well known fact. Personal electronic gadgets can only distract, or make the learning process more efficient, reducing mnemonics that help retention.

    1. Re:Student remember best by writing notes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd prefer a laptop to a tablet because it seems intuitively important to me that students be interacting through a grammar of some kind: writing an essay, commenting on a Google Doc or something similar, posting an email to a class mailing list written in paragraphs rather than a tweet. In math, even graphing calculators had keyboards, and needed them. Tablets seem to have finger-painting interfaces that would be prone to multiple-choice tests, and multiple choice everything since there's room for only few buttons per screen which encourages "wizard"-like ordered-step interfaces rather than open-ended compositional creative interfaces. Tablets have few interactions other than "Do" or "Gimmie," for example, clipboards are awkward compared to keyboardful machines, and searching for text inside a buffer isn't a normal thing to do on a tablet while it's common in a web browser, word processor, or text editor. It always makes me think of the cocaine vending machines scientists use to experiment on rats. Not only do tablets seem a bad fit for education, but any educational software company promising to deliver tools via tablet would have my reflexive suspicion. Useful laptops are the same price, so price isn't a reason to choose a machine with an aesthetic totally at odds with education, either. It's disappointing to see the tablet hysteria is apparently powerful enough to wash these issues from educators' minds.

    2. Re:Student remember best by writing notes by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Funny I got tested years ago as a child and retain much less while taking notes.Some kids learn that way they really need to stop pushing the one "true" method as there is none.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    3. Re:Student remember best by writing notes by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      My son has muscle tone issues that make writing difficult. He can do it but will quickly tire and get frustrated. And when he's frustrated, he is NOT learning. (Depending on how frustrated he gets, everyone else in the class might not be learning either.) If he's allowed to type up notes or assignments, however, he flourishes. He's insanely bright but limiting him to "only pen and paper" would mean limiting his learning experience.

      I definitely don't think tablet computers are magical cure-alls for education. In the hands of some students, they might prove to be expensive distractions. However, for other students, they might vastly improve learning. Like anything, this should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Give the tablets to the students who need them and lock them down so they are used for education, not mere entertainment.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  19. Wait a sec... LEASING?! by NegroponteJ.Rabit · · Score: 5, Funny

    The federal government is *leasing* tablets from a division of Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation at a cost of $200 per year.. Not buying..... LEASING!!! For $200 per tablet. Let's see how Fox News deals with this WASTEFUL GOVERNMENT SPENDING!

  20. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by contrapunctus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Someone once told me "the further you get from the classroom, the more money you make"

  21. Re:Wait a sec... LEASING?! by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

    If you follow the money trail, you will likely find one of the decision makers on pushing this forward has a monetary interest in this whole scheme. Sort of like how the biggest opponents of drug legalization have shares or outright own prisons and drug testing facilities

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  22. XXX by horm · · Score: 1

    Great, let's give a bunch of horny, hormonal middle schoolers a way to easily watch porn at school.

  23. Where's the link?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How are we supposed to RTFA and discuss it when there are fifteen (15!) links in the summary? These comments are a wasteland of generalized ranting.

    1. Re:Where's the link?! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      (15!)

      15! is roughly a trillion.

  24. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Only two factors have consistently been shown to positively correlate with student performance: parental support and teacher enthusiasm. But, hey, throwing technology at the problem might work this time...

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  25. Re:Wait a sec... LEASING?! by NegroponteJ.Rabit · · Score: 2

    Maybe, but I'm assuming that this company did in fact come in with the lowest bid. To be fair, having parents who've been teachers, schools spend A-LOT of money on *CRAP* - CRAP standardized programs, CRAP books, CRAP software, CRAP consultants, CRAP tech, CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP! I was amazed to hear what one school paid to have specialized desks built, each with an embedded CRT and a PC with a RealMagic Hollywood card to play DVDs, and a huge 64-port Cisco router for the 15 or so machines, apparently none of which got much use. Money that could've gone to better things. Still, $200 to lease a tablet? Just buy the freaking tablets! Get Nook HD's - they're cheaper and keep Barnes and Nobles in business. Seriously, If I were in charge, I'd put Apple IIs, Atari 800's and TRS-80's back in classrooms. Maybe give a Raspberry Pi to every kid. There was something to using a device that essentially gave you a blank slate and you had to learn and create to make it do stuff. Now, everything comes flying at you with bright colors and stupid, condescending, badly drawn cartoon characters. By the way, remember that Neil Bush's No Child Left Behind program was a pretty nice deal for Neil Bush's IGNITE! company, formed the very same year that his brother ran for president. Gotta love family connections.

  26. Thinking (only) of the children again by macraig · · Score: 1

    No Child Left Untableted

    Right, and to hell with the homeless and other chronically underutilized who have already endured so many years of frustration and unhappiness? Too late for those fuckers so screw 'em, right?

    It's ageism again.

    1. Re:Thinking (only) of the children again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You make up your mind you choose the chance you take"

      Most of then they had their chance and they blew it through their own choices, I agree the sick and mentally ill I exclude from this but druggies etc hell no

      You want another repeat of the boomer generation?

      Disclaimer not rich, struggling like most folks but better educated than the chances at schooling I was afforded because I made it so.

    2. Re:Thinking (only) of the children again by macraig · · Score: 1

      Many of the homeless and "underutilized" are thus not because they made a litany of bad choices but because they were simply dealt a raw deal by circumstances beyond their practical control. After enough years of raw deal, many people are mentally ill at least by circumstance. They may not be as technically helpless as a cute five year old, but their need for help is no less real. It really IS ageism behind these decisions where to focus remedial resources, just as it's an ageism choice to focus primarily on hiring young people in certain fields.

  27. Here you go by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    Two Seconds of googling. That said, have been going down because we're admitting more people, and those people aren't as wealthy so they don't have access to a full time parent, a nanny, and tutors. They're often more or less on their own. Basically, we expanded education to everyone but we didn't expand all the advantages afforded to the rich and powerful to them. If you think about it it's common sense. Dump a bunch of under privileged kids into underfunded schools and what do _you_ think will happen?

    As for the Charter & Private schools, don't make me laugh. They get to pick and choose their students. If a kid starts under performing or is disrupting class it's back to the public school for them. Not that I think we should abandon those kids.

    On a side note, +5 insightful? Really /.? We're better than this.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Here you go by g01d4 · · Score: 1
      Really? You might have spent three seconds and found something a little less biased.

      Class-size reduction has been shown to work for some students in some grades in some states and countries, but its impact has been found to be mixed or not discernable in other settings and circumstances that seem similar. It is very expensive. The costs and benefits of class-size mandates need to be carefully weighed against all of the alternatives when difficult budget and program decisions must be made.

  28. Giving tablets to the snowflakes... by 0m3gaMan · · Score: 1

    is beyond stupid.

    "When your only tool is a hammer..."

  29. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    Gerry Sussman is enthusiastic enough and the electronic media allows him to influence many more people that it would be possible in brick school settings. And I'm sure there are more such people...now if only the mediocre regional drones who only think that they can prepare good teaching materials and deliver good lectures stopped deluding themselves.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  30. Dumbing down so that no child can fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For me it started in 1966. My school went Comprehensive (this is the UK I'm talking about). The Secondary modern school I was at joined up with the local Grammar school. Two years later the overall exam results were down to the level of the Sec modern school which was fully 30% lower than the Grammar on its own.

    I was in the Techical Stream i.e. 2nd grade. We were not expected to do much but go out to work in local factories aged 16. No chance of staying on to get 'A' levels and go to University.

    I went back 6 years later with a 1st Class Honours degree in Engineering and stuffed under the noses of the teachers who'd condemmed me to failue.

    Now my grandkids are finiding it hard to fit in because they are bright and consistently get 'A' grades. However their teachers are mor concerned with them fitting in with the rest of their year group and not standing out. Their parents can't afford to send them to private school so they have to deliberately fail things in order not to be a target for those who are frankly Thick and have no ambition. Their school district (they live in MA) seems more concerned with the idiots than the bright kids.

  31. 1/2 Agreed, 1/2 BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While tablets are very useful for consuming media, they are not very useful for producing it. Technology can be distracting. Leasing the machines is also a bad idea.

    That being said, the rest of your rant is patently false.

    -We cover signifcantly more subject matter than pre-WWII students. That generation was taught that the atom was the smallest unit of matter and Venus may be habitable. Very few learned Trigonometry because most jobs did not require more than a high school degree. Pre-WWII students were separated by race and gender. Do you really want to go back?

    -When the US educational system is compared to that of other countries, we test everyone while they only test their top students. Not a fair comparison at all.

    -When you see videos of people who don't know geography, people who get the answers right are edited out. If most people did not know geography as depicted in these videos, then few would get the joke.

    -The media generally spins educational stories to the negative. When students do well on a test in the U.S. the test was too easy. When they do poorly on a test, the teacher did not do their job.

    Granted, there are setbacks. However, to claim that there are "absolutely no positive results" in educational reform is beyond foolish. You are disregarding reality in favor of your tarnished opinion. You are suffering from "educationalism" as defined by racism, sexism, and exceptionalism.

  32. County Ed Budget Too High by CaptainOfSpray · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously they've got money to burn, the fools.

    For their "total annual per unit lease cost of $214" they could buy 5 Raspberry Pis at Adafruit, and OWN THEM OUTRIGHT instead of the devices still being on lease so they have to pay $214 every year till the supplier is fat and happy.

    --
    "Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
    1. Re:County Ed Budget Too High by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously they've got money to burn, the fools.

      For their "total annual per unit lease cost of $214" they could buy 5 Raspberry Pis at Adafruit, and OWN THEM OUTRIGHT instead of the devices still being on lease so they have to pay $214 every year till the supplier is fat and happy.

      Yes? And then what? What exactly is a middle-school student going to do with a RPi? Do research? Write papers? How?

  33. HR-ification by mx+b · · Score: 1

    I call this the "HR-ificiation" of our society, because of the mindset I see in business/HR type people that unfortunately run the country right now. They do not seem to have thinking skills themselves, hence cannot identify it in others. Instead they rely on checklists that were "created with input from our business partners". Sounds great on the surface to most parents and students -- they worked with industry to get relevant job skills! -- but the downside is that the educational curriculum is now reduced to a checklist of "skills" rather than a comprehensive education in how to reason about problems. I see this in tech schools too (where I currently work), where the focus on business skills is taking such priority (so that they can advertise that they prepare for jobs) that they have lost sight on the actual important material in the program.

  34. Edison promoted phonograph as teaching aid by peter303 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Said pre-recorded lectures would revolutionize education. Every home should have one. Hwever his competitors discovered that entertainment was more commercially viable.

    Every new media invention in the past 140 years has been promoted as an education aid with varying success.

    P.S. Edison originally invented the phonograph as a means of cramming more information onto a telegraph. You'd record message on a phonograph, send them at high speed across the wire, record them at the other end, and play back at human readable speeds. Wires were a precious resource in those days.

  35. The no-privacy policy. by Animats · · Score: 1

    The "Tablet privacy policy:

    No Right of Privacy
    tablet technology users have no right of privacy in their use of tablet technology or the content they access using tablet technology

    Review and Monitoring of Usage all tablet technology use may be reviewed and monitored without notice by GCS administrative staff for any reason, even use that occurs on personal time or off school property.

    1. Re:The no-privacy policy. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      All your soul are belong to us.

  36. Boon for the 1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like the charter school movement these technology initiatives are a boon for the 1% crowd like Bill Gates who benefits from the privatization of education. There is a large amount of money spent on public education and these guys are working to make profits from it. The main profit will come from the de-skilling of teachers and the reduction of the teacher numbers and salaries. The leftover cash becomes profit for the corporations that sell gizmos and software (Pearson) into the schools and the corporate education executives. If you look closely enough you see that Bill Gates and the other "philanthropists" are profiting from this. Also look at the schools that these guys send their kids to; I'm sure that they have low student-teacher ratios and don't rely on Khan Academy for instruction.

    To provide an example, my daughter is a high school science teacher in CA where the district is going to buy every kid an iPad and put AppleTV and big LED TVs in every classroom but claims there isn't enough money to fix the broken sinks in the classroom.

    This is a giant grab for tax dollars by the 1% under the guise of helping children.

  37. They can't even get it right in college by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, I'm taking a few graduate level courses in a scientific discipline. Although all of them have in-class lectures, one is "distance learning" enabled. The school sunk huge amounts of money into building these "smart" classrooms that have audio/video recording capabilities with microphones and cameras all over the place. The professor writes on a touch-sensitive screen, and students can choose to remotely view the session live, or watch the recording later.

    Another class is taught in a traditional way, with an old-school professor who just comes into class and lectures. There's no technology involved, except for using a whiteboard. No recording. You miss class, you miss the lecture. He doesn't post an online syllabus, or notes, or homework. EVERYTHING is done in class.

    Guess which class WORKS? Since Day One, there have been inexplicable bugs and failures in the smart classrooms. The microphones stop working, the distance learners can't see or hear the feed, and the software is clumsy and difficult to use. The professors can't write neatly on the touchscreen and so all the formulas look like chicken scratches. Almost every class has a period of 5-10 minutes where nothing gets done because the professor is trying to solve some tech problem. Few students bother to view the session remotely now because they don't want to take the chance of missing something if there's a problem.

    All that technology, all that money that the university threw into these classrooms and contractors, has gotten in the way of learning. By the time all the bugs are ironed out (which may be never), these classrooms will be obsolete and the university will be sold on upgrades to an even more needlessly complex system. Meanwhile, the old school professor has covered twice the amount of material and he doesn't even lecture for the whole time.

    The point is, students are paying for educational technology that they don't even need. It's not a matter of "growing pains." There isn't any functional need for the class to use this technology, and the old school professor proves it. Giving a tablet to every kid only teaches them how to depend on those tablets as a learning tool, and it merely enriches the pockets of the corporations that sell this crap to the schools. In higher education, laptops would be understandable, but a tablet is really not a better learning tool than a textbook. I can find something in a textbook faster than I can in an e-book; I can annotate more quickly and easily, and it is less strain on the eyes. Even though i have a tablet and a laptop (and I bring the latter to class), I still take notes with pencil and paper, because nothing else comes close. The laptop is for running software relevant to my classes.

  38. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot about RACE.

  39. First they laugh at you: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Remember when Newt Gingrich was so roundly ridiculed for wanting to buy laptops for schoolkids?

    Now school districts worry about the price and fairness of the contract, rather than whether we should or not.

    1. Re:First they laugh at you: by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Remember when Newt Gingrich was so roundly ridiculed for wanting to buy laptops for schoolkids?

      I think he earned greater ridicule for his plan to have children earn their free lunch by sweeping and mopping the schools.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  40. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by AlphaWoIf_HK · · Score: 2

    What we really need is to get rid of standardized tests and realize that one-size-fits-all educations have their limit.

    --
    Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
  41. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only two factors have consistently been shown to positively correlate with student performance: parental support and teacher enthusiasm.

    Maybe, but in those cases, the measurements they use are the same flawed measurements (standardized tests) that make our public education system so terrible; I wouldn't trust them, as they don't measure understanding.

  42. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    Nope, most of the long-term studies judge success based on degree and employment. Try again.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  43. Update: Guilford Has Pulled Out of InBloom by theodp · · Score: 1

    INBLOOM OFF THE ROSE?: "Another state has pulled out of using the Gates Foundation's $100 million technology service project, inBloom. The withdrawal further shrinks the project after other states pulled out in part because of concern about protecting studentsâ(TM) privacy. Guilford County, N.C. told POLITICO on Wednesday that the state decided to stop using the service, which is designed to hold information about students including names, socioeconomic status, test scores, disabilities, discipline records and more in one place, and ideally, help in customizing students' education."

  44. Why why why? by erroneus · · Score: 1

    You know, we love our tech. I love mine. But back in the day, there was a reason they didn't allow students to use calculators in math class. Basic skills mastery are needed. How to use your hands to write is necessary. How to count and do basic math is necessary. How to spell is necessary. These basic skills most of the 40+ here take for granted is in serious trouble for those younger. When you see actual business reports contain "RU" instead are "are you" you have to face-palm at the very least.

    We don't need computers, tablets and multimedia edutainment for our children. We don't. We need, in fact, to isolate them from these things until mastery of the basics are demonstrated.

    And here's a thought... just a mild paranoid question to consider. By connecting our childrens' minds to 'the net' are we exposing their psychological profiles to government for evaluation and selection? Enabling them to more easily select the best or the most 'dangerous' from the sea of young minds out there? As the Snowden secrets continue to trickle out, we are seeing the wildest conspiracy theories get proven right and a few which even the theorists didn't dare to dream are coming to light. It's out of control. We need rational control back.

  45. Waste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the biggest waste of money evar.

  46. Privacy by Windwraith · · Score: 1

    How convenient, considering tablets have almost no security and are ripe for the NSA to observe.
    Of course it's important to have every child tableted, it's easier to spy on them that way.

  47. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Windwraith · · Score: 1

    Ever tried to do multitasking in a tablet? It's not gonna be easy for the kid to do something else and quickly close it before the teacher notices.

  48. Re:Wait a sec... LEASING?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ironically it is because there are votes in the general populace wanting to cut waste in schools that this happens in the first place. IT people that have a clue in higher up central positions are counted as excess pork because they are not (possibly ex)teachers/principals (need to cut down on the number of non-teachers/principals). More often than not the decision makers are old former principals and get offered a free lunch and buy whatever is on offer... if something goes wrong they can retire anyway.

  49. If you can do this with electronics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why dont you do it to get affordable food on the shelves.
    I know they can do it because the done it for the greeks.
    They just want to keep profits high not that they cant make it more affordable.
    That is criminal if you ask me.

  50. move to a digital freedom respecting county by keneng · · Score: 1

    Do not sign the student tablet agreement. Move to another county where digital freedoms are respected and students are encouraged to open up hardware and experiment with what's under the hood.

    Guilford County's student tablet agreement as mentioned above reduces the students' digital freedoms.

    Once again this shows you can't trust big media or big gov or big school to defend your freedoms. EFF and GNU are good points of reference to understand what I am talking about. Be careful before buying any hardware and never buy hardware on a lease or a plan because companies use that excuse to lock down the computers, tablets, phones while you don't completely own the hardware. This is a perfect example of that. They think they can stop you from opening up the tablet hardware by signing some piece of paper. REFUSE to sign by all means. Everyone must remain vigilant to preserve their rights to fix/tweak things to their liking for anything they own.

    1. Re:move to a digital freedom respecting county by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst part about this is that you legally have to send your kids to school, so the agreement is very difficult to avoid. Your options are

      1) Public School
      2) Homeschool
      3) Private School
      4) Moving out of the county

      If you don't have the finances for 2,3, or 4 then you are stuck allowing some tablet manufacturer/school potentially monitor them at home.

  51. Anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I lived in NC for a long while. The schools I went to wasted money like there was no tomorrow. Near the end of one school year, my high school sent home notes about how a senator wanted to cut the school's budget from 5 million to 4.5 million dollars. They wanted to start a letter writing campaign demanding the budget stay the same or increase. When the next school year started, they bought 100 ipads (this was about about a year after they came out) and started putting "smart-boards" in each room. The smart-boards saw a little bit of use, but the ipads were almost never used (much like both of the computer labs). The entire interior of the school was re-painted annually, and they also had fully-stocked rooms for shop-class (a class that they never offered).

  52. Stupid title... by techprophet · · Score: 1

    I read it as 'untabled' and was thinking someone had screwed up the wording trying to say that they're scrapping it.

  53. Re:Spy on them early on... by lxs · · Score: 1

    Good mindless cetacean? You mean like Flipper?

  54. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not much different. As I thought, people don't even care about education anymore; they just want people who assimilate into the workforce easily and/or spend ridiculous amounts of money on colleges and universities. Where is the focus on understanding? It's just not there.

  55. Yeah, that'll work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our local school district just leased an iPad for every kid from some "education" company that demanded a multi-year contract for service and "content." This is a rural district, and the state ratings, coincidentally, just came out, giving our schools an "F" in one core category and a "D" in another. I have met graduates of these schools who don't know who we fought in WWII and, in one case, didn't know what cream is. From a cow. In that field over there.

    An honor student around here is anybody who doesn't show up stoned or fight. Most "graduates" read at sixth grade level, but nobody cares. The teachers, by and large, graduated from these schools themselves.

    Meanwhile, parents don't give a shit, as long as the football team has new uniforms and comfy bleachers. The schools employ multiple levels of coaches, including golf coaches. Golf coaches. They closed the high school library and laid off the librarian, but don't touch our golf coach.

       

  56. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Peterus7 · · Score: 1

    Another idea, train teachers on how to actually use technology for learning. I remember being approached outside a local library by a middle schooler asking if I wanted to buy a laptop. It still had school stickers on it, and I declined. I'm expecting similar fates for these tablets.

  57. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    With a remotely activate able microphone and camera, a wireless connection to the schools servers controlled by school admins, with ability to monitor all activity on the tablet when ever the tablet is on and reporting of all unauthorised activity reportable. Personally if I were at that age, the very last thing I would want to accept is a school supplied and controlled computing device. If stuck with one, definitely throw in faraday and sound shielded case and bring along a matching appearance unit that didn't connect to the school server and regional administration beyond that. Google plus M$ plus News Corp, why does the 'EWWW' in privacy invasion come to the fore.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  58. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take that idea to it's limit. One extremely motivated teacher and one or two students.

    You know what I call them? Parents.

    I take exception with the idea that teaching could ever replace parents. Teachers are by and large, socially broken, today. I don't like their ideals, or morals, or world view.

    Yes, I believe the world, is millions of years old. Yes, we should strive to not pre-judge people by their appearance. Etc etc etc. None of that really goes to what I'm speaking of.

    The problem is so beyond salvage, that I am either going the homeschool, or private school, route.

    You have left me little choice.

  59. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, so the students are the parents. Now who is the extremely motivated teacher?

  60. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you need is to hire teachers that care about giving a good education and then respect them and pay the well enought so they feel respected. After that you need to give them the freedom to decide how they archieve good education for their pupils. After that you give them the responsibility of actually doing so, and the needed resources to do so (This does not mean money. This means immunity from stupid parents, from stupid lawsuits, and from stupid politics). You don't need tablets. SOme teachers might like to try some out, they might even have nice uses for them, but sure as hel lyou don _need_ them for proper schooling.

  61. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by P-niiice · · Score: 1

    States are cutting school funding. Gotta have more prisons!

  62. Works Great, If Done Properly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It really is one of those things that can either be really good or really bad, depending on implementation. I live near a school district that has had a reputation in the past for not having the best scores in town. Economics have shifted and in recent years they have been able to give tablets to all students - at least at the 7th-9th grade levels(not sure about high school). They've noticed an improvement in grades and test scores, but more importantly they've noticed that students seem to be more engaged with school work and more willing to actually do it. Not only that, but tablets have built in methods for organizing tasks and time management. The result? Students turn in homework more often, they track their own progress, they do better on tests and their grades have steadily gone up over the last 3 years. What used to be a run-down impoverished school that was a joke in the surrounding area is now competing - and winning - academic competitions with the more renowned and respected schools.

    Given that there's also a recent article on /. complaining that schools don't get enough funds, I wholly welcome tablets in schools. If kids run out of construction paper in September, then teachers all over the nation end up buying their own construction paper from their own pocket. If kids get to draw/create/design on a tablet...it's a one time cost that can be used for years. Of course, they break and have to be repaired...but you're talking about $50-100 up front for a tablet(it doesn't need to be the latest $600 iPad) or hundreds each year for the pen and paper equivalents.

    I'm not saying throw out art projects or other things that use physical materials...but augmenting classrooms with tablets can reduce costs elsewhere, and it's a relevant technology that can help students organize their time, turn in the homework regularly, and plan for their future, which are all *extremely* important for school districts in impoverished areas. It's easy for kids in those areas to drop school and do other things that look like they have more value. If they can see their hard work is going to pay off by letting them go to college, and they have the tools to record their progress...then they end up doing more work.

    I've seen the good that tablets can do, so I'm all for putting more money into this effort.

  63. a view from Guilford County by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From here, the first thing that comes to mind is poor teacher pay and layoffs. NC went from the bottom for teacher pay to middle of the pack of states, but has now reverted to a position near the bottom. Counties (NC has 100) with more populous cities and more money supplement the pay enough to push most teachers above the poverty line (Guilford is one). Many schools here still have serious security issues, and I don't mean from external threats, I mean from some of the students. How about a grant for teacher pay, teaching assistants, or Resource Officers (police trained for working in schools)? Until recently, and often still, middle schools didn't even have ROs or shared them (what good can that do?), and high schools generally have no more than one, which isn't enough for some of the schools. Or how about enough cash to fit all the buses with emissions controls (all but the newest belch carcinogenic diesel soot—just the kind of exposure kids need) or incentives to use biodiesel? A lot of farms here still grow tobacco, so switching to energy crops needn't impact food prices/supply. Or perhaps decent funding for the "technology" classes where a few students learn a little about robotics?

    Time will tell how the tablets work out, but even if abuses like monitoring students and altering content to suit extremists doesn't occur in Guilford, it most likely will in some other county when their tablets appear.

    Few kids here are taught any kind of programming whatsoever. The only thing they normally get is some instruction on using Word or PowerPoint. I don't expect this to change. There's no significant push here for either programming instruction or using open source software, even though Red Hat isn't far away and has contributed some resources in the past.

  64. children don't need tablets to help them learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    let's make sure everyone is ignoring each other. that is the best way to have peace in the classroom.

  65. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Sadly, my state government seems to think that the best path to increase student performance is:

    1) Tests, Tests, and more Tests - Pearson has been given a multi-million dollar contract to implement said tests, parents/teachers are forbidden from seeing anything on them, and Pearson gets to decide how to score them. There was a 30% passing rate in NY after the new - much harder - tests were implemented. But don't worry because Pearson sells a line of teacher training programs, textbooks, etc that can help raise students' scores.

    2) Charter Schools - The governor recently said that the "death penalty" should be implemented for public schools that don't pass. Note that I said "public schools." Charter schools can admit who they want (no special ed or special services kids in there if they don't want them) and don't need to take the tests. So they wouldn't be eligible for the "death penalty." However, charter schools pull their funds from the public school bank just like public schools. So public schools are left with less money and more students with special needs. This effectively means that the "death penalty" for public schools will mean more charter schools (and possibly some private schools). Charter schools are also run by businesses, don't require their teachers to have teaching degrees, etc. It would be very interesting to see if the companies that run charter schools in New York contributed to Governor Cuomo's campaign and, if so, how much they gave.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  66. Re:Yes, exactly what we need. More distractions. by AlphaWoIf_HK · · Score: 1

    Yeah, having good teachers might also be a good idea...

    But it's not going to do any good if you don't let them teach. Right now, they have to teach to the test or the schools lose funding if students do poorly on the useless standardized tests.

    --
    Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
  67. less nature for kids to look at by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... we're making sure kids don't look away from screens any more. Perfect. We have proved screens are healthy.