Molecule In Corked Wine Plugs Up Your Nose

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Molecule In Corked Wine Plugs Up Your Nose

Posted by Unknown on Monday September 16, 2013 @01:02PM from the apply-clothespin-to-nose dept.

sciencehabit writes "Ever send a bottle of wine back at a restaurant? If you weren't just being a pretentious snob, then it was probably because the wine seemed 'corked' — had a musty odor and didn't taste quite right. Most likely, the wine was contaminated with a molecule called 2,4,6-trichloroanisole (TCA), the main cause of cork taint. But a new study by Japanese researchers concludes that you do not smell TCA directly; rather, TCA blocks up your sense of smell and distorts your ability to detect odors. The findings could help the food and beverage industry improve its products and lead to less embarrassment for both you and your waiter."

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So stop using corks by geek · 2013-09-16 13:17 · Score: 4, Interesting

Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
1. Re:So stop using corks by binarylarry · 2013-09-16 13:22 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  "Greetings sir, I've selected the finest cans of wine for your dining experience tonight. Would you like some pork rhines to help wash that merlot down?"
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
2. Re:So stop using corks by Nerdfest · 2013-09-16 13:26 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Very true. Stelvin closures, Plastic corks, glass stoppers, all superior. The really amazing part if all the labour that goes into each real cork. Cut, cleaned, bleached, sorted, the re-sorted, much of it by hand. It's actually amazing that they're so cheap. It really sucks when a bad $0.30 cork ruins a 60$ bottle of wine.
3. Re:So stop using corks by DoubleJ1024 · 2013-09-16 13:26 · Score: 0
  
  Because that is what rich, snooty wine snobs prefer. How else would they know good wine, it is not like they could actually read the wine list and recognize a wine that has been packaged in a nitrogen purged, sealed container and know that it is a good wine. I will state for the record I do know that you can store and seal wine in a bag/box and it taste just as good as a corked bottle. I have also found that the price of a bottle of wine means almost nothing in relation to how it tastes, my personal favorites are rather cheap compared to the more expensive varieties.
4. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:28 · Score: 0
  
  Tradition is very powerful in some areas. Wine is definitely one of those. I say this as am outsider, because I don't drink alcohol (I forget how fragile other people are when I drink and they tend to break, and I feel bad afterward).
5. Re:So stop using corks by Konster · 2013-09-16 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  Only corks make that cool popping sound when you pull them out, and this is why they are still used.
6. Re:So stop using corks by Darinbob · 2013-09-16 13:33 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Cans, pssh. What's wrong with boxes?
7. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Ahh, never seen a screw-on bottle cap before?
8. Re:So stop using corks by dosius · 2013-09-16 13:47 · Score: 2
  
  Two Buck Chuck, the cheap wine from Aldi Nord-owned Trader Joe's that won a taste test and made French wine connoisseurs' heads explode.
  
  --
  What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
9. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:48 · Score: 1
  
  The other closures are not proven to age wine as effectively or with the same aging results. For people that buy wine to cellar and age, cork is the only true time proven closure. Granted you have to count on 5, sometimes 10% loss due to taint.
10. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:49 · Score: 0
  
  I'm no expert, but I think one of the main arguments is sustainability.
11. Re:So stop using corks by slick7 · 2013-09-16 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  Cans, pssh. What's wrong with boxes?
  What's wrong with bags and those pokey straw thingies?
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
12. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:50 · Score: 1
  
  From the Muppet Movie:
  "Would you like to sniff the bottlecap?"
13. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:50 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I agree that wine drinkers are usually guilty of pretension, but let's not pretend like taste and price have "almost nothing" in common. If you go buy 4 random bottles of $8 wine and 4 random bottles of $20 wine, you'll taste a substantial difference even in a blinded test. I'd guess that 1/2 of $20 bottles of wine are enjoyable as opposed to about 1/5 of $8 bottles.
  That said, a good $8 bottle might be every bit as good as the good $20 bottles.
14. Re:So stop using corks by bill_mcgonigle · 2013-09-16 13:52 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
  There's almost nothing rational in the entire wine economy.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
15. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:54 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, that stuff isn't that great. It's not even "good", it's an acceptable table wine but that's about it. But for the price it can't be beat.
16. Re:So stop using corks by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-09-16 13:55 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  In fact, a box is one of the best ways to store and distribute wine.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
17. Re:So stop using corks by Charliemopps · 2013-09-16 14:04 · Score: 1
  
  The problem has to due with a chemical contaminating the wine... it has nothing to do with the cork. That's just the common term people use to describe the problem. There are plenty of wines that use rubber stoppers or twist offs. You're welcome to buy them. It seems however, that when buying a $40 beverage people tend to expect artistic packaging.
18. Re:So stop using corks by cdrudge · 2013-09-16 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  Synthetic corks also make a similar popping sound when they are removed.
19. Re:So stop using corks by horm · 2013-09-16 14:11 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  All that work creates jobs. Do you want to destroy American jobs?
20. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:13 · Score: 0
  
  Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
  There's almost nothing rational in the entire wine economy.
  Very true. I have been homebrewing beer and wine for years, The "overtones of lavender and chocolate" are such bullshit. Grapes are very dependant on the environment and the weather they are grown in. They vary year to year from the same location. I would rather not attend any wine tasting that isnt conducted by the person that was responsible for making it. Even then, you may have to put on some all weather boots to wade to the bullshit, which doesnt go well with wine IMHO.
21. Re:So stop using corks by PopeRatzo · 2013-09-16 14:23 · Score: 2
  
  Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
  Amen. I haven't drunk wine from a corked bottle in a decade. It's twist-off or nothing for this connoisseur.
  Say, could you spare two dollars so I can get a little taste... uh, I mean, "something to eat"?
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
22. Re:So stop using corks by The+Grim+Reefer · 2013-09-16 14:23 · Score: 1
  
  If you go buy 4 random bottles of $8 wine and 4 random bottles of $20 wine,...
  ...I'd guess that 1/2 of $20 bottles of wine are enjoyable as opposed to about 1/5 of $8 bottles.
  I'd say you've already drank too much if you enjoy 1/5 of four bottles of wine. ;-)
23. Re:So stop using corks by blueg3 · 2013-09-16 14:24 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Plastic corks, glass stoppers
  No, no. Those things suck. Plastic corks are like regular corks, except they don't get moldy and they're a royal pain to get out of the bottle. Glass stoppers are easy to get out unless you break a bottle opener on it by accident. They're also vaguely resealable.
  There are two modern methods that are amazing for wine. Screw caps are stupid easy to use, cheap, and resealable. Modern, pioneering winemakers that don't worry about what people think about the presentation use screw caps. (They also often make great wine at affordable prices.) The other method is the box (or rather, a bag inside a box). A box looks completely classless, but it's one of the best ways of storing wine because pouring wine doesn't expose any of the remaining wine to oxidation. This means you can make a (disturbingly compact) 3L box of wine and use it over the course of a week. Or two days. Or a month. The wine stays good. Mercifully, some people -- not all Australian -- are making good wine in boxes now.
24. Re:So stop using corks by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-09-16 14:27 · Score: 0
  
  It's no coincidence that it's called "cork taint". All that trichloroanusol makes the wine taste like shit.
25. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:36 · Score: 0
  
  The Sauvignon Blanc is excellent, even at 4 times the $2.49 asking price. The rest are so-so.
26. Re:So stop using corks by MickLinux · 2013-09-16 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  With a Pic-16 and a speaker, boxes can make that cool popping noise when you unfold the top.
  
  --
  Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
27. Re:So stop using corks by russotto · 2013-09-16 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  The problem has to due with a chemical contaminating the wine... it has nothing to do with the cork.
  Except that the main (but not only) source of the chemical is the cork.
28. Re:So stop using corks by arth1 · 2013-09-16 14:44 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  But sometimes you want the oxidation. A couple of my favourite wines need decanting before the flavour is right.
29. Re:So stop using corks by arth1 · 2013-09-16 14:47 · Score: 2
  
  I'd say you've already drank too much if you enjoy 1/5 of four bottles of wine. ;-)
  I live in New England. Enjoying a fifth is tradition here.
30. Re:So stop using corks by mrmeval · 2013-09-16 14:52 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Bag in a box wine review: The polyvinylchloride adds a particularly delightful emphasis to the cardboard while the shades of petroleum
  byproducts are a welcome ablative to the virus stunted grapes musty
  grandeur.
  --mrmeval 2007
  
  --
  I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
31. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:53 · Score: 0
  
  you may have to put on some all weather boots to wade to the bullshit
  So, its just like everything else?
32. Re:So stop using corks by aXis100 · 2013-09-16 14:54 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You can still decant the amount you'll be drinking that night (e.g. usign a fast breather) and leave the rest in the box for another day.
  Seriously, was that so hard to figure out?
33. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:55 · Score: 0
  
  Just like coffee and gold, then?
34. Re:So stop using corks by Main+Gauche · 2013-09-16 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  "some pork rhines to help wash that merlot down?"
  Did you mean Riesling?
35. Re:So stop using corks by breeze95 · 2013-09-16 15:14 · Score: 2
  
  Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
  Do you know why the older wine gets the more expensive it is? Aging. As wine ages the taste becomes refined, and the aging process depends on oxidation. Corks are permeable which allows the oxidation process (aging) to continue. Using materials other that cork stops the oxidation process making the wine less desirable and reduces the price of the wine.
36. Re:So stop using corks by ArhcAngel · 2013-09-16 15:15 · Score: 1
  
  I'm still trying to figure out what pork rhines are. Perhaps he meant Chicharrón?
  
  --
  "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
37. Re:So stop using corks by binarylarry · 2013-09-16 15:23 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  They're pork rinds that are only made in the Rhine valley.
  For true connoisseurs only.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
38. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 15:23 · Score: 0
  
  Pork rinds, he just can't spell.
39. Re:So stop using corks by binarylarry · 2013-09-16 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  But you can spell.
  You can spell all night long.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
40. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 15:41 · Score: 0
  
  Just like coffee and gold, then?
  But, but, but, but, the intrinsic value of gold !!!!!!1!!!! Ron Paul!!
41. Re:So stop using corks by blueg3 · 2013-09-16 15:51 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure that effect is oxidation, but otherwise, yes. The good way to do that is with a decanter, though, rather than just opening the bottle. The bottle's small neck limits airflow. If you're going to expose it to air, might as well do it fast.
42. Re:So stop using corks by rsilvergun · 2013-09-16 16:05 · Score: 1
  
  I live in upstate New York, enjoying a fifth is 5:30pm here.
  
  --
  Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
43. Re:So stop using corks by Rob+the+Bold · 2013-09-16 16:10 · Score: 1
  
  I'd guess that 1/2 of $20 bottles of wine are enjoyable as opposed to about 1/5 of $8 bottles.
  From the expected value standpoint, you're breaking even (5*$8 = 2*$20). Less the sip or two you need for tasting purposes.
  However -- and this is the important part -- after finishing the good bottle, you've got 4 cheap ones to go, vs. 1 moderately priced good one and an unfortunately overpriced clinker. And like the Bible says, you serve the good one first and save the rest for when you're all a little more mellow.
  (Obviously, you scale up the number of bottles if you're expecting company*. Jesus was working with amphorae, after all.)
  *I know, this is Slashdot, but it can happen. We're talking statistics, after all.
  
  --
  I am not a crackpot.
44. Re:So stop using corks by sribe · 2013-09-16 16:34 · Score: 1
  
  Very true. Stelvin closures, Plastic corks, glass stoppers, all superior.
  For the short term. Not for any wine that is expected to be held for a decade or more. In other words: only superior for at least 95% of all wine sold, but not for everything.
45. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  Dude, you jest, but I think grape juice companies could make a killing in the low-income market by marketing identical-looking (from a distance) grape juice and wine containers.
  p.s. Now I'm tempted to go buy some boxed wine and pour it into used grape juice cans/bottles so I can drink it in public.
46. Re:So stop using corks by Dahamma · 2013-09-16 17:00 · Score: 1
  
  That's true - there is fine art to cork soaking.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuj1aKxET8Y
47. Re: So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  Portuguese jobs
48. Re:So stop using corks by Dahamma · 2013-09-16 17:15 · Score: 2
  
  Corks are permeable which allows the oxidation process (aging) to continue. Using materials other that cork stops the oxidation process making the wine less desirable and reduces the price of the wine.
  No, not really. Oenology research mostly says the oxygen that gets into the wine from the bottling is plenty enough to age for years, and extra oxygen is MUCH more likely to spoil the wine than improve it.
  There may be a very VERY slight percentage of wine aged for a very long time that might improve with a perfect cork letting in just enough oxygen to keep the aging going without spoiling it, but for the VAST majority of wine current research says it's (and by "it's" that's the the Bordeauxs, cabs, etc) probably at its best in 25 years. And it's a crapshoot as to whether anything older will be any good at all. For the ABSOLUTELY OVERWHELMING majority of wines a synthetic cork will be as good if not better.
  Ok, I'm not including citations because seriously why bother, but search this topic and the top 5 results will say the same thing...
49. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 17:23 · Score: 0
  
  Plastic corks are like regular corks, except they don't get moldy and they're a royal pain to get out of the bottle.
  How so? I've yet to have a plastic cork disintegrate like an actual cork. Because of that, I find them far easier to yank out.
  Right on with boxes, though. The hell with class - there's nothing like de-cardboarding a box and carrying around a sack of cab.
50. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 17:37 · Score: 0
  
  I'm tempted to go buy some boxed wine and pour it into used grape juice cans/bottles so I can drink it in public.
  Drinking wine out of a can is conducive to my violent hand gestures when I speak.
51. Re:So stop using corks by hedleyroos · 2013-09-16 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Boxes are easy to transport and may be subject to different taxation. The downsides are quite bad: higher sulphur content, looks tacky and no flow of air to soften tannins once opened.
52. Re:So stop using corks by mvdwege · 2013-09-16 18:32 · Score: 1
  
  There is also that aging is for snobs; it was mostly invented by the British upper classes, and the Americans took it over without thinking.
  Most wines are meant to be drunk fairly young. Any amount of aging necessary to bring out the taste will happen, as you correctly point out, with the oxygen available during bottling.
  It is precisely this reason why the younger French vintners are not afraid of synthetic corks and bottle caps. The French are notorious oenopaedophiles.
  
  --
  "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
53. Re:So stop using corks by troon · 2013-09-16 18:39 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Interestingly, polythene (e.g. cling film) neutralizes the TCA molecules in corked wine...
  
  --
  Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
54. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 18:49 · Score: 0
  
  Holy shit this restaurant sounds amazing!
55. Re:So stop using corks by Dahamma · 2013-09-16 19:10 · Score: 1
  
  There is also that aging is for snobs; it was mostly invented by the British upper classes, and the Americans took it over without thinking.
  Most wines are meant to be drunk fairly young. Any amount of aging necessary to bring out the taste will happen, as you correctly point out, with the oxygen available during bottling.
  Not sure which Americans you are talking about (maybe American billionaires?) but for the garden variety wine snob (who believe yes, Two Buck Chuck is not close to a decent Napa/Sonoma wine - but it's honestly better than some 5x the price) I don't think there is a particular trend towards heavily aging wines. I've never been able to keep one more than a few years because I'm too eager to try it ;)
  Though I have on occasion had some wines of 15-20+ years that were let age. Some of the best I have ever had in recent years have been from the 80's-90's i.e. aged 20+ years. Then again they may have been great wines after 5 years, guess I'll never know :) But they certainly weren't ruined...
56. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 19:44 · Score: 0
  
  The best way to seal a bottle of wine is this.
57. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 19:45 · Score: 1
  
  So the solution to stop it looking cheap is to always use a decanter. Problem solved! Unless your guests catch you in the kitchen in the act.
58. Re:So stop using corks by tinkerton · 2013-09-16 19:45 · Score: 1
  
  I've drunk my share of old wines and you want the oxidation especially when you're drinking a wine too early. But when a wine has aged and is peaking(ymmv actually), decanting easily ruins it. Then it is often enough to decant just to separate the wine from the dirt and to get the odd volatile odor out, and drink.
  I'd even go further and say the same about many cheaper young reds: don't let it oxidise, it detracts from the taste,
59. Re:So stop using corks by bickerdyke · 2013-09-16 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  Who made up that myth with that old wine.... only the smallest fraction of wine (red, VERY tanin rich) has a chance to survive "decades" without spoiling at all.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
60. Re:So stop using corks by bickerdyke · 2013-09-16 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously, other than nostalgia why are they still using corks when much better methods have existed for decades?
  Do you know why the older wine gets the more expensive it is? Aging.
  No. Older wine is so expensive because after 20 years, you need to throw away half of your stock cause it turned into vinegar or some cork tainted liquid waste. You need to pay for that, too, when buying one of the bottles that are still in drinking shape.
  Granted, there are several wines that need a few years to mature, but that's only a small fraction and it is nowhere near several decades..
  
  --
  bickerdyke
61. Re:So stop using corks by Ol+Olsoc · 2013-09-16 20:37 · Score: 1
  
  Very true. I have been homebrewing beer and wine for years, The "overtones of lavender and chocolate" are such bullshit.
  Ever notice the striking similarities between wine snobs and audiophiles?
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
62. Re: So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 20:38 · Score: 0
  
  You mean the CEO of Maçã?
  He died a couple of years ago, and all of the euFones they've made since have been dull and listless.
63. Re:So stop using corks by pjt33 · 2013-09-16 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  There's essentially no flow of air through a bottle neck either except when you're pouring.
64. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 21:15 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe because some of us don't want plastic particles to enter our body and stay indefinitely...
65. Re:So stop using corks by tinkerton · 2013-09-16 21:55 · Score: 1
  
  That is interesting and new to me. Of couse if it also sucks up everything else it may become less interesting.
66. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 23:32 · Score: 0
  
  They are usually of a metal that also can leave a strange flavor to the wine. Plastic corks are better. (And requires no change to the bottle.)
67. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 23:36 · Score: 0
  
  It only looks cheap to the kind of people that still believes that manually labor creates goods of higher quality than machine assembled ones.
  If that is a problem the solution is to change guests, not wine dispenser.
68. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 23:43 · Score: 0
  
  WTF are you on about? Do you think that plastic is less organic than cork and that it somehow won't pass through you?
  Dude, we are talking about wine, an alcoholic beverage. You should worry less about a few ppm of plastic and more about the percentages of alcohol.
  Apart from the alcohol wine also contains its fair share of other toxic substances.
69. Re:So stop using corks by jschrod · 2013-09-16 23:43 · Score: 1
  
  The 89 rieslings in my cellar that still taste fresh, and are just now starting to have a bit of oxidation, beg to differ. E.g., Kastelberg from Kreidenweis. Some burgundies from Rebholz, too.
  My 81 Chateau d'Yquems is still considered young.
  You don't need lots of tanin to have well aging wines.
  
  --
  Joachim
  
  People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
70. Re:So stop using corks by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-16 23:44 · Score: 1
  
  There's almost nothing rational in the entire wine economy.
  Actually that is your perfectly rational explanation right there. Wine is a pretty good investment and obviously the people invested in it don't want that to change, so they create artificial ways of preserving its value.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
71. Re:So stop using corks by gl4ss · 2013-09-16 23:57 · Score: 2
  
  look man, you're not going wait until it airs anyways. and you're going to do it for the whole bottle.
  want a fast good way to do it? pour it into a blender and hit it. no need to air the whole bag.
  natural cork corks are just a gimmick in this day and age.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
72. Re:So stop using corks by sa1lnr · 2013-09-17 00:03 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't the wine in a bag that is inside the box?
73. Re:So stop using corks by RabidReindeer · 2013-09-17 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  natural cork corks are just a gimmick in this day and age.
  They're biodegradable. Except for the plastic corks (ugh!). But I agree. Screw tops are quite adequate, if less showy.
74. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 00:32 · Score: 0
  
  "It really sucks when a bad $0.30 cork ruins a 60$ bottle of wine."
  Not likely. It's so rare in fact that I can basically say you are a liar. It's so rare now(and has been for decades) that you will probably never experience it in your lifetime, at least for the reason you state. I will say though if you are experiencing this frequently you are buying a brand that doesn't have use proper cleaning methods for their bottles/storage prior to bottling. Almost all "corked" wine is not because of the cork but because of lack on sanitary production and bottling prior to the cork every getting close to the bottle.
  Actually a more likely scenario is you are just a snob who thinks he's superior in every sense of the word, especially when tasting wine. The fact is your $60 bottle or wine just didn't taste good so you blamed it on the cork. Tell me superior snob why EVERY study for the past few decades has outed every single amateur and professional wine taster as frauds. None of them being able to tell the difference between wines, even stating that one wine is better than another even though they are the same. That one wine is this or that, made here or there, but is wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh, but you can, ....right!
  FYI: One needs to feel the cork to tell if the wine was stored properly. Stop doing the snob sniff.
75. Re:So stop using corks by gstoddart · 2013-09-17 00:46 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't the wine in a bag that is inside the box?
  Yeah, but those have spigots ... totally different. ;-)
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
76. Re:So stop using corks by sribe · 2013-09-17 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Who made up that myth with that old wine.... only the smallest fraction of wine (red, VERY tanin rich) has a chance to survive "decades" without spoiling at all.
  THAT is a myth ;-)
77. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 01:26 · Score: 0
  
  So write down the name of the good cheap one and buy that. Then next time you'll have 100% success at a low price.
78. Re:So stop using corks by tinkerton · 2013-09-17 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Some burgundies from Rebholz, too.
  Really ? How well do they cellar? 20 years seems a bit long. Most pinot noir just doesn't age well.
  I've got some Kreydenweiss too but it's a bit overpriced. Wiebelsberg was in there. Many good dry Rieslings will keep 20 years I think.
79. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 01:38 · Score: 0
  
  Alcoholic drinks have been preferable to plain water in the past because most sources of water were contaminated and dangerous. Now that safe, clean water is cheap and plentiful, why other than nostalgia are people drinking wine?
80. Re:So stop using corks by jschrod · 2013-09-17 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  > > Some burgundies from Rebholz, too.
  > Really ? How well do they cellar? 20 years seems a bit long. Most pinot noir just doesn't age well.
  Actually, I meant his white burgundy grand cru (Im Sonnenschein). Some years wines from him age extremely well; last year I was at one anniversary tasting where he opened bottles from the last 25 years, and there were astonishing wines among them. 15 year old Sekt, still fresh; I couldn't believe it.
  His pinot noir age quite well as well; in some years it must age. E.g., currently his 2005 Im Sonnenschein GG is still too closed to be drinkable in good consciousness. Together with Bernhard Huber, Paul FÃ¼rst (where Rebholz son currently is an apprentice), Fritz Becker, and a few others, they show what red burgundy from Germany can be like.
  > I've got some Kreydenweiss too but it's a bit overpriced.
  Full agreement. And you can't rely that every year ages as well as the 89. E.g., 2002 oxidated very early. And there are the years in 2004+ where Antoine (Marc's son) took over, and was still learning the trade. I haven't been in Andlau for the last 5 years or so; but have heard reports that Antoine starts to be better again. A wine from him that's not-as-long-aging but good and not so expensive is the Clos Val d'Eleon.
  Marc and Emmanuelle moved from Andlau to Nimes, btw, and make quite good red wines, for early drinking, just 3-5 years in the cellar. If you're in that area, be sure to visit them; Marc is an enthusiastic guy who can and will talk for hours about his wines, the grapes, and process he uses.
  > Many good dry Rieslings will keep 20 years I think.
  Yes, they do. (That was the point I was trying to make.) Of course, one has to be careful and check when they are about to oxidate -- and then it's a matter of taste if you let them a bit, or if you rather drink them... :-) I remember some 82 Bordeaux where I had bad luck and noticed it too late. :-(
  Here's to you, and a have a good glass,
  
  --
  Joachim
  
  People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
81. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 02:49 · Score: 0
  
  The problem with cans is it limits your ability to smell the wine as you drink it.
82. Re:So stop using corks by tlhIngan · 2013-09-17 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  It seems however, that when buying a $40 beverage people tend to expect artistic packaging.
  Basically, the vast majority of people then who think they're buying a premium product when it's really just a middle of the line thing.
  Because the really good wines (more than $40/bottle) have found alternative sealing devices like plastic screwcaps and (gasp) boxes which keep a lot better (holding the value), require less maintenance (oh yeah, you have to maintain it! Or you leave the chance it turns to vinegar) and so forth.
  Cue the Pawn Stars episode where one guy brings in a good vintage Dom (sealed) only to find the cork is deteriorating and is floating in the liquid, which also has most likely turned into vinegar from improper storage.
83. Re: So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 03:12 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, we have lot's of that nowadays, screw corks.
  - Portuguese Anonymous Coward
84. Re: So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 03:49 · Score: 0
  
  Iberian lynx.
85. Re:So stop using corks by mvdwege · 2013-09-17 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  I was referring to Robert Parker and his fanbois, who seem to only select on suitability for aging.
  
  --
  "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
86. Re: So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 04:40 · Score: 0
  
  In Soviet Portugal, cork screws you.
87. Re:So stop using corks by pouar · 2013-09-17 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer the can anyway.
  
  --
  while :;do if windows sucks;then mv windows /dev/null;pacman -Sy linux;fi;done
88. Re:So stop using corks by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-09-17 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously? Modded "redundant"? I don't see where anybody else here has made a double pun out of this.
  
  Sigh. I'm SOooooo misunderstood. :)
89. Re:So stop using corks by tinkerton · 2013-09-17 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  I was in Alsace a few years ago and stocked up mainly on cru Rieslings then. Andlau Barr I mainly knew from Klevener(savagnin rose, not klevner pinot blanc) but I had read that Kreydenweiss was good so I bought two cartons.
  
  Of course, one has to be careful and check when they are about to oxidate -- and then it's a matter of taste if you let them a bit, or if you rather drink them... :-) I remember some 82 Bordeaux where I had bad luck and noticed it too late. :-(
  
  Well, I like them fully ripened but not beyond. Some wines need to be watched very closely. I recall some burgundy from 97 and 98 that really had a very brief window of one-two years between opening up and being past it. Following up the Riesling will be very easy in comparison.
  
  Here's to you, and a have a good glass,
  Thanks, the same to you :) In this case I have an open Emrich Schonleber Mineral from 2009. I'm terribly ignorant on the subject of german wines but trying to catch up you see..
90. Re:So stop using corks by Meeni · 2013-09-17 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  Except if you intend to age it. It doesn't age at all in a box/pouch, and it ages only marginally with plastic corks.
  Therefore, for aging wine, one needs a proper bottle with a proper cap (either cork, or specially engineered plastic "cork" as is becoming common in Bordeaux these days).
91. Re:So stop using corks by slick7 · 2013-09-17 13:37 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't the wine in a bag that is inside the box?
  Yeah, but those have spigots ... totally different. ;-)
  Who are you calling a spigot? Even though I, like many, have our prejudices, I like to believe that I am as progressise as the next person!
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
92. Re:So stop using corks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 17:00 · Score: 0
  
  None of them being able to tell the difference between wines,
  
  Those studies don't say that, they show that people are very susceptible to external influence when describing wine. Considering based on what you tell people you can get people to not tell the difference between a drink with and without alcohol, that we are supposed to believe that alcohol makes no difference in drinks and that in general people can't actually taste it? At the very least there is a wide variety of amount of sugars in wine, and that separates some of them. And we're supposed to assume you have any knowledge about how frequent wine gets corked?
93. Re:So stop using corks by OneAhead · 2013-09-18 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  A large percentage of the wines sold with a natural cork are not suitable for aging anyway, and a large percentage of their buyers won't even try to age them (if they even have a suitable cellar / cooler). Couldn't we just agree to only put natural corks on the more fancy wines that are meant to be aged and that are likely to fall into the hands of people who actually know what to do with them? And while we're at it, the few wines that are worthy of a natural cork could do with better corks (more carefully selected, cut and sterilized). In this day and age, with all the sanitation/sterilization techniques we have at our disposal (irradiation for example), one would expect a few percent of the price of a really good bottle to buy you a cork that has a reasonable chance not to ruin your wine...
  Part of the problem is that, even though the customer base is sufficiently educated to realize they don't need corks, and the winemakers know this better than anyone else, the organizations that control wine "appellations" are often extremely conservative and will kick winemakers out for not using natural cork. I recently read the story of a winemaker who had to give up the "Chianti" name on his label so that he could put a screwcap on his bottles.
Cork taint. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:21 · Score: 1

/eom
Miracle Fruit by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 13:26 · Score: 0

Related?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synsepalum_dulcificum
price vs. taste by King_TJ · 2013-09-16 13:38 · Score: 2

Yeah, I'm not even a really big wine connoisseur, but I'd say the high priced wines have more to do with vintage than any other single factor. The idea that "The older, the better!" is only true in a very general sense and subject to so many exceptions and other mitigating factors, it's really not a good way to determine if a given bottle of wine will taste good to you.
At some point, I think it's more about showing off/snobbery, really.... That feeling of superiority one gets from cracking open a bottle that's sat, undisturbed, for so many years. People will pay for that experience.
1. Re:price vs. taste by MickLinux · 2013-09-16 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  Right now, my favorite is a dark red muscadine from Duplin, the North carolina winery. But then, I was walking in the rte 17 walking park in Chesapeake, and saw and tasted one of the red muscadines, and was extremely impressed with the skin.
  French winemakers may like the muscadine for its hardy rootstock; I like it for its grapes.
  
  --
  Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
2. Re:price vs. taste by Moridineas · 2013-09-16 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't mind my asking, could you point me to which Duplin wine you like? I live in NC and have tried just a few local wines (I tried some kind of uber sweet muscadine years ago). Thus far, I haven't found anything that jumped out at me.
3. Re:price vs. taste by Kiraxa · 2013-09-16 16:48 · Score: 1
  
  I havn't tried Duplin's, but I've found the wines from Hinnant Family Vineyard are amazingly delicious. They're over in Pine Level, just off 70 or 95, depending on where you're coming from. They have a great selection, and a bar set up for tasting their selections before you choose a bottle. Or two. or three.
  
  --
  http://phelannguyen.blogspot.com/
4. Re:price vs. taste by MickLinux · 2013-09-17 14:55 · Score: 1
  
  I think it's the Hatteras Red; no Catawba, just Muscadine.
  
  --
  Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
wrong person to blame... by o_ferguson · 2013-09-16 13:41 · Score: 2, Funny

surely it's the sommelier who will be embarrassed, not the waiter...

--
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
seriously....taint? by turkeydance · 2013-09-16 13:41 · Score: 1

5th grade recess, and SHE will tell ya...
Am I the only one... by Hork_Monkey · 2013-09-16 14:03 · Score: 1

that giggled at the phrase "cork taint"? Please don't tell me I'm the only one.
1. Re:Am I the only one... by The+Grim+Reefer · 2013-09-16 14:36 · Score: 2
  
  that giggled at the phrase "cork taint"? Please don't tell me I'm the only one.
  Nope. I was wondering why anyone would pay $20+ to drink something that smelled like taint.
2. Re:Am I the only one... by Dahamma · 2013-09-16 17:16 · Score: 1
  
  I already posted this earlier, but just for you...
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuj1aKxET8Y
Smell Blocker by AK+Marc · 2013-09-16 14:21 · Score: 1

If they are finding things that block smell, can I spray some of my coworkers with it?

--
Learn to love Alaska
1. Re:Smell Blocker by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:47 · Score: 0
  
  Why? Does your smell offend them?
  Perhaps it would be better used on yourself?
2. Re:Smell Blocker by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:51 · Score: 0
  
  If they are finding things that block smell, can I spray some of my coworkers with it?
  Anything to avoid taking a bath, eh?
wine snob - bs bs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:34 · Score: 0

like all acquired taste stuff - it's all BS. If gasoline did not kill you then we would have people talking about how exxon gas is so much tastier. Since it is an acquired tastes; what taste good is what we force ourselves to like by repetition.
1. Re:wine snob - bs bs by king+neckbeard · 2013-09-16 14:46 · Score: 1
  
  Just wait until it's too expensive to drive around. There will be con men who will sell crude oil that has been 'naturally aged for millions of years' to clueless folks with more money than sense. They'll use it lightly to dress their salads and to flaver their roasted entrees.
  
  --
  This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
wine not Wine by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:47 · Score: 0

This was added to the Wine category even though it is about wine.
screw tops by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 14:50 · Score: 0

Seal the bottle of wine with a screw top. No spoilage by cork. And no, it does not cheapen the wine. That's how you get wine now a days in New Zealand and Australia.
1. Re:screw tops by HornWumpus · 2013-09-16 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  Guaranteed to open up the sluice gates at both ends...
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
2. Re:screw tops by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 16:05 · Score: 0
  
  +1 MP
Reminds me of a prostitute I once knew by JoeyRox · 2013-09-16 15:23 · Score: 0

When we first met she was charging $300/night. But after her taint got corked a few hundred times it didn't seem quite as appealing anymore so she was forced to reduce her rate down to $75/night. I'll forward her a link to this article so she'll know the experience wasn't unique to her. I never got involved with her romantically but she helped me resolve my dyslexia.
So order the Mark West Pinot Noir by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 15:35 · Score: 0

or the Columbia Crest Cab Sauv that sells in high volume instead of the $70 bottle that's been sitting around for a few months. That's for the Donald Trump types that have to impress their dates when they order, and then again when they send it back.
"cork taint" by hduff · 2013-09-16 15:58 · Score: 3, Funny

Unintentionally funny.

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Vinegar by mbone · 2013-09-16 16:22 · Score: 1

When I send back wine, it's because it's turned to vinegar.
Why embarrassing? by Anonymous+Psychopath · 2013-09-16 17:10 · Score: 1

Sending back a corked bottle shouldn't embarrass anyone. It's fairly rare but does happen from time to time. The restaurant shouldn't even think twice about it.

--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
1. Re:Why embarrassing? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 23:45 · Score: 0
  
  When i read this i was wondering the same thing. Where is the embarrassment coming from? If i go buy a product for which there is some known but small failure rate why should anyone be "embarrassed"? Perhaps its a "wine snob" thing?
And WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 17:23 · Score: 0

If the wine is corked it is unacceptable for consumption. The cork will smell like walnuts and that is easily perceived. I was lucky enough to have had a good host at a tasting who rejected a bottle herself. I asked why, and she let me smell the cork. The "corked" smell is unmistakeable.
That is not the only reason for sending back wine. There are at least two bacterial afflictions related to poor winery cleanliness that merit a return: amertume and ropiness. Amertume makes the wine bitter and ropiness ruins the mouth-feel.
Sending back bad wine is not only sensible, it's a feedback mechanism for the winery that says they need to improve their cleanliness.
1. Re:And WTF? by tinkerton · 2013-09-16 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  The contamination covers a broad range and not everyone has the same sensitivity to it. That is why to some a wine may just not taste very good while to others it clearly has cork taint even if it still is drinkable. That is also a reason why estimates of the fraction of wines that's corked vary a lot, at least if they're based on experience. I'd put it at 5 to 10%, but then I'm sensitive to cork taint.
The Food Industry by MLBs · 2013-09-16 18:16 · Score: 1

The last paragraph gave me the following thought.
Given how much the food industry is "concerned" with providing us with the best quality,
is it potentially possible that they can use this molecule to block our ability to sense some bad stuff that is in their products?
1. Re:The Food Industry by RDW · 2013-09-16 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  Given how much the food industry is "concerned" with providing us with the best quality, is it potentially possible that they can use this molecule to block our ability to sense some bad stuff that is in their products?
  You know the foil capsule that covers the cork on more expensive bottles? Take half a dozen of those and you can make a useful protective hat!
vintage vs.taste by dutchwhizzman · 2013-09-16 19:41 · Score: 1

Sorry, but wine does change taste once it's in the bottle and even more so before it is bottled. Beaujolais Primeur is a wine that is best very soon after it is made, it deteriorates rather fast and is ready for vinegar after a year or so. Other wines are the opposite, they require longer time in the cask and even longer time in the bottle to reach their best taste. The famous French Bordeaux region chateau wines are a good examples of this.
Wine price is a combination of rarity, popularity and taste. Once wines get "expensive" the price of production, packaging and storage isn't a major factor any more, but for most wine, it is. The prices you pay in fancy restaurants are often way more than the same wines would cost in trade or in a liquor store. I don't know about the USA, but in Europe, many restaurants only break even on the food and have to get their profits on the drinks you order while you are in the establishments. That means that if you and your dining partner are in the shop for an hour, your bottle of wine you share will basically have to get enough money out of you to pay for the wages of the people caring for you during your stay and the profit of the restaurant owner. Don't be surprised if there's a $30 or more markup on that single bottle...

--
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
1. Re:vintage vs.taste by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 02:27 · Score: 0
  
  Most places I've been in the USA, businesses do the markup on spirits -and- on food -and- don't pay the waitstaff enough to live without relying on generous tips.
carafe by SgtChaireBourne · 2013-09-16 20:48 · Score: 3, Informative

If you want to oxygenate the box wine before serving, just pour it into a carafe a little ahead of time. The wine remaining in the box stays as it is but the wine in the carafe gets the oxygen needed to take care of some of the tannins. Seriously, even with wine in a bottle, using a carafe is a good way to deal with tannins.
A nice carafe can also help show off the wine itself.

--
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Wine in boxes by demon+driver · 2013-09-16 20:59 · Score: 3, Funny

In fact, a box is one of the best ways to store and distribute wine.
True! I, too, buy most of my wine in boxes. Usually containing six bottles each. Very convenient!
Wrong icon? by grungy · 2013-09-17 00:11 · Score: 1

Isn't this the wine project icon?
Contaminated!? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-17 00:39 · Score: 0

If it's contaminated, it's bad anyways. So what...
Box? by mynameiskhan · 2013-09-17 01:27 · Score: 1

Nope, it is recyclable box containing a non-recyclable plastic bag which in turn contains the nectar of life.
rotten drink by mynameiskhan · 2013-09-17 01:30 · Score: 1

I do not understand all this fuss about aroma and taste and TCA (trichloroacetic acid?). After all people are drinking rotten fruit juice!