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Is HTML5 the Future of Book Authorship?

occidental writes "Sanders Kleinfeld writes: In the past six years, the rise of the ebook has ushered in three successive revolutions that have roiled and reshaped the traditional publishing industry. Revolution #3 isn't really defined by a new piece of hardware, software product, or platform. Instead, it's really marked by a dramatic paradigm change among authors and publishers, who are shifting their toolsets away from legacy word processing and desktop publishing suites, and toward HTML5 and tools built on the Open Web Platform."

78 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Obligatory answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    No.

    1. Re:Obligatory answer: by catmistake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No.

      This is correct. Mod parent up. No disrespect to HTML5, but it is not going to play any key role for "authorship," (which is, although beside the point, absolutely the incorrect term for the query; "publishing and distribution" is what is meant and what should have been used).

      Any writing will be composed however the author feels most comfortable or creative, via pen and paper, dictation, typewriter, or word processor. They're NOT going to compose and tag HTML code for crissakes! I realize some of you supernerds have already, good for you, but no one cares. Write with the method you want to write with, Napoleon. GOSH!

      Any written work, or book of images, or any combination of the medium, that is ever intended to be physically printed en mass, is going to be normalized as PDF no matter what the original form of the composition, even if it is a book of mathematics that is typeset in LaTeX, even if it is a small run of physical books and the majority of the tokens are sold as eBooks. If it is going to press, it will be PDF at some point. PDF is fine for digital distribution, but it is not ideal for eReaders, per se, unless the digital consumer desires a digital representation to be identical content to the printed book, in which case PDF is ideal.

      IMO, there will be no single winner of the digital formats, because there's plenty of room for all of them, and then some. It's digital... who cares? Let's give the consumer some choice, it will make no significant difference in cost. Publish your book, print and sell the hardbound and softbound editions, and make available PDF, ePub, and Kindle format, Plaintext, DjVu, CHM, HTML, and sure, whiz bang HTML5 with JavaScript and video if you want... and any other versions for the digital consumer. There's no problem. Stop evangelizing the need for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Obligatory answer: by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Indeed, the answer to the question is probably the same as the answer to, "Is HTML5 the future of application programming?"

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Obligatory answer: by pr100 · · Score: 1

      Surely the suggestion is not that authors compose and tag raw html... the suggestion is that they use editors/word processors that have html as the underlying document format?

    4. Re:Obligatory answer: by gigaherz · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Is HTML5 the future of ?" NO. If HTML is ever the future of anything, it will most probably be a later version, not 5.

      In my opinion, HTML as we know it isn't fit for any truly serious work. The current model based on HTML, CSS and JavaScript is too clunky. Ideally, we would need a new content description (modelling) language, that's better designed at describing the content we want to see on the future of the "web", instead of it all being a hack around vertically-scrolling pages. We would need a new presentation language, that's better fit to describe to the User Agent how that content is supposed to look like, and either a much improved version of the scripting language, or a whole new language that's better fit to interact with both the content sources (model), and the presentation patterns (views).

      I will list a few of the flaws I can't stand about the HTML model, roughly in order of how simple the concept is:

      • You can't vertically-align objects without scripting.
      • You can't define a horizontal-scrolling element without scripting.
      • You can't define a non-scripted grid-like layout with proportional, fixed and content-dependant sizes mixed together.
      • It lacks a simple, integrated, templating and data-binding system.

      I will stop here since I'm apparently thinking of WPF too much.

    5. Re:Obligatory answer: by gigaherz · · Score: 1
      Why are there no bullets in my
        ?
    6. Re:Obligatory answer: by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You might add that the problem of content/layout separation would be easily solved with a simple macro system.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Obligatory answer: by jandersen · · Score: 1

      It's digital... who cares?

      Well, we should care a bit - certainly enough to not lose the ability to decode it and transform information to other formats. There's a science fiction story about this (or probably many), about how we digitized all our knowledge and then lost the key, so to speak.

    8. Re:Obligatory answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      HTML is not the future of slashdot

    9. Re:Obligatory answer: by zidium · · Score: 1

      CSS, dummy.

      Seriously! You make such a technical answer about HTML and CSS and don't even know about list-style: none?! Come on!

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    10. Re:Obligatory answer: by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      I know about them, I was just wondering why would slashdot have that style on the comments...

    11. Re:Obligatory answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know there are many that desire a site to have a good visual design, but after using slashdot and so many other forums, I find I could not care less about what something looks like. I prefer fast loads and pages that behave to good looking sites. Slashdot, before the recent design change, is very good looking IMO, but neither the new design nor the classic design behave well. You know what I mean. Function preceeds form, dammit. Who gives a shit what something looks like if it behaves like it has multiple personalities? My absolute favorite site for function is Craigslist. Its buttugly, but so are you!!! It works so well! Pages load instantly, no matter how much content. I wish... I know it'd be some seriously outrageously clever hack, but I wish so badly that there was a mirror to slashdot (consider how many tpb mirrors, and reddit mirrors there are) that was entirely coded in Perl: flat, ugly, blazingly fast and incredibly functional!

    12. Re:Obligatory answer: by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Isn't it really all a SMOP? (SMOP Means Onomatopoeic Polysyllabry)

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    13. Re:Obligatory answer: by StripedCow · · Score: 1

      You are looking too much from a technical viewpoint.

      If HTML provides good standards for monetization, (e.g., micropayments), and browser vendors follow them, then I see hope for HTML.

      On the other hand, big players may work against that. For example, Google, Facebook and Twitter have no interest in micropayments, as they depend too much on an ad-based world. Apple is too much into closed technologies.

      Perhaps Amazon could trigger a world of web-payments, but they really need the browser vendors on their side then.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    14. Re:Obligatory answer: by Count+Fenring · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The "vertical-align" property only functions as a general vertical alignment tool in table-cells. Now that we have "display: table-cell" in basically all modern browsers, this is more or less sufficient, but it's still a far cry from being as simple as you've made it out here.

      Columns are HUGELY more complex to build than they have any right to be, and they are fragile in any number of cases where they shouldn't be. Support for true multi-column content panes is far from where it should be.

      Saying "the developer builds their own" is the same as saying "one is not provided." Whether it should be provided is a worthy argument, but it's not a foregone conclusion, and calling the OP a poser isn't remotely justified here.

      Doing rich interface design is unquestionably clunkier in HTML/CSS/JS than in dedicated GUI toolkits on the desktop; I don't agree with the parent that it's not suitable for any real work, but your dismissing him out of hand isn't remotely fair. And it's pretty clear that he's not a "poser web dev," but rather a native dev who's used to more explicitly specified layout mechanics (that is, not having to work around the assumptions inherent to HTML as a descendant of a width-specified static document format.

    15. Re:Obligatory answer: by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1, Informative

      I completely agree. Having just published my first book (see my sig), I didn't spend any time considering the design/layout/etc until right near the end. The content is what was important to me, so I wrote that first. Once I was done with the content, THEN I laid it out, made it look "like I feel it should look", and produced a PDF which ultimately got printed to paper.

      For the eBook version, I used RTF which was then converted to the appropriate format (mobi) by the publisher. But again, it was a 'last step' thing, as the content is what I spent my time on.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    16. Re:Obligatory answer: by nabsltd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because it is a mistake.

      Slashdot is using a <ul> as the basis for their dropdown menus, and for that they don't want any markers. Unfortunately, they seem to have added "list-style: none;" to selectors for all <li> elements.

    17. Re:Obligatory answer: by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      Answer is still no. I already have a word processor. I will use that. I can *export* to HTML if I desire. It would be one option only.

    18. Re:Obligatory answer: by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Your argument then is that HTML is good for the promotional and sales portion of the venture, after all writing and editing is done.

      I agree it can be a useful tool in the larger set. It will never become the set.

    19. Re:Obligatory answer: by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Leisure/utility : apples/oranges.

    20. Re:Obligatory answer: by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's the process you used and maybe that's the process you hallucinated.

      Yes, my book is about LSD... however it is called "Dropping Acid: A Beginner's Guide to the Responsible Use of LSD for Self-Discovery". Most of the book was not written while under the influence of psychedelics.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    21. Re:Obligatory answer: by Kielistic · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should probably be aware that ePub is basically a zipped HTML document.

    22. Re:Obligatory answer: by unixisc · · Score: 1

      HTML is not the future of slashdot

      Nor even its present, by the look of it.

      Okay, I understand why /. doesn't support Unicode, but for the life of me, I don't understand why it can't support simple tags like UL or OL. Especially since the latter is simply having numbered listings. I've seen non-technical blogs support bulleted & numbered lists better.

    23. Re:Obligatory answer: by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      No.

      This is correct. Mod parent up. No disrespect to HTML5, but it is not going to play any key role for "authorship," (which is, although beside the point, absolutely the incorrect term for the query; "publishing and distribution" is what is meant and what should have been used).

      I respectfully disagree, though not with all of what parent post is suggesting.

      Creative writing is best done in a simple text editor where there is no style and the author/revisionist wrestles with his muse in an empty and barren arena. No witnesses to the bloody mess, and no distractions from the work at hand. WYSIWYG is a terrible distraction when trying to birth some new text into the world.

      That said, the whole point of writing is to get one's words in front of some reader somewhere who will pick up on what the writer laid down. Making the raw final draft presentable is what publishing is all about. This is where HTML5 and CSS3 come into play. These technologies have nothing to do with the writing process but they can be necessary and sufficient for converting the writing into something that is readable. And they enable self-publishing in a much easier way, and to a much wider audience, than any other approach. But they do this work behind the scenes.

      By far the easiest way to self-publish one's own creative writing is to do the writing in plaintext in a text editor, then copy-paste it into the input field of a good wiki engine. Make a "final" pass with the wiki editor to add the italics, bullets, and other stylistic stuff, and you are self-published on the web, with a potential audience of billions of readers. You will want to use one of the wikis that provides access controls, so that you can determine who can make changes to your work, but there a lot of wikis that support access control lists. You won't have an easy way to monetize the work, but hey nobody starts writing for the money. And maybe you could sell tee shirts or something from your web pages.

      Where the HTML5 and the CSS3 come in is in the Javascript, PHP, and style sheets that you can use to adjust the way the wiki engine works. Of course you need an HTML5/CSS3 compliant wiki engine, but all of them are headed that way. Dokuwiki is my personal favorite: fully HTML5 and CSS3 compliant, and I found it easy to develop my own template, adequate for my book.

      An example of a novel in progress is my work Artie Wood and his Electric Flying Machine. I could not do this any other way.

      --
      Will
    24. Re:Obligatory answer: by invid · · Score: 1

      Having first learned to write manuscripts on a typewriter, I mimic the same style when writing a novel on the computer; using Courier New in manuscript format, underlining where I want italics and double-spacing everything so there is room to write comments on a hard copy. Some younger people have proof-read my work and actually thought that was the way I wanted it published. I had to explain that as an old-fogy, the presentation style is the last thing I do.

      Here's a shameless plug for my latest novel, where you can see from the sample the suggested format for ebooks as specified by Amazon.

      --
      The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
    25. Re:Obligatory answer: by liamevo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because those white hick towns are so much safer and nicer. It's all about poverty dude.

    26. Re:Obligatory answer: by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No, all you'd need is a way to define constants. Then you could say something like:

      cHEADER_TEXT="blah blah blah blah blah blah"
      cBODY_TEXT="blah blah blah2"

      Then you could go on designing your page as normal, and instead of writing your text in the middle like you do now, you could stick the constant there. That way you could have two pages using the same constants but with completely different layouts, except it would be easy, unlike with CSS

      For browser writers it would only take half a day of programming (of course plus testing, etc). At least one browser writer has already implemented it as an experimental feature, but then they removed it later......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    27. Re:Obligatory answer: by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I wrote the first several chapters of Nobots straight into slashdot's journal system. Later chapters were in Open Office and copied there. Changed layout quite a bit afterwards. Good luck getting full justification with HTML 5.

      Nobots (full book, what's at slashdot is a crude first draft) will be out shortly.

    28. Re:Obligatory answer: by liamevo · · Score: 1

      You can't vertically-align objects without scripting.
      Yes you can.

      You can't define a horizontal-scrolling element without scripting.
      I don't even know what you mean. Do you mean like a carousel? You can, but clunky.

      You can't define a non-scripted grid-like layout with proportional, fixed and content-dependant sizes mixed together
      Sure you can.

      It lacks a simple, integrated, templating and data-binding system
      So people build their own, mustache, handlebars, ember.js etc

    29. Re:Obligatory answer: by gigaherz · · Score: 1
      Actually, the comment boxes themselves are
      • s. The thread view is done by nesting lists inside lists. But yeah, they forgot to reset the list-style:none for the comment content.
    30. Re:Obligatory answer: by gigaherz · · Score: 1

      Shit, I pressed submit too fast forgot to escape the <>.

    31. Re:Obligatory answer: by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      evidently you don't feel that bullet points are a useful bit of functionality. fair enough, but there are plenty of people who would disagree with you on that one...

    32. Re:Obligatory answer: by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      On reflection, I could have made my points much more clearly.

      On further reflection, I can only do so for persons who understand the differences between expository writing (this is how you do it), descriptive writing (this is how the business did last quarter), persuasive writing (you really, really need to buy this shiny!), and creative writing (and now for something completely different). The Writing 101 courses that cover these differences are usually 10 to 12 weeks long, and I'm not going to attempt to duplicate that in a slashdot discussion.

      I assert again, creative writing is best done in plaintext. Other types of writing can be done with other tools. Even PowerPoint has its appropriate place for a particular kind of "authoring". If you have very little to say to a captive audience and you feel a need to look like a clever guy, then PowerPoint is an excellent tool for your particular genius.

      Back to creative writing: after a story or a novel or a poem is revised to the nearly finished stage, then it needs to be sent through the style and distribution processes of publishing in order to put it in front of the reader. HTML5 and CSS3 are providing an environment where tools that support creative writing in plaintext and then self-publishing the result are becoming available. There are several wikis, such as Dokuwiki, that are representative of these new tools. This could not be done effectively without the broad acceptance of HTML5 and CSS3. That is the lesson of the browser wars (go ask your grandpa about those bad times).

      To look at this another way: sure, you could do the creative stuff in Word. But then what do you do when it is time to publish? Send it only to your friends and family who also have the very same version of Word? Send it through the PDF process-- oh but now all that careful formating might well have changed. Or export it as plaintext so you can pump it into a publishing system--- like maybe a wiki? :-)

      --
      Will
    33. Re:Obligatory answer: by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean to sound argumentative at all! But I did read it entirely the wrong way...

  2. No, But Maybe. by Great+Big+Bird · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The obvious answer to this is no, by the law of headlines. However, taking a look at the material does lend itself to the possibility of a good workflow. My own concerns would be with going from LaTeX now — there is some stuff on offer that could be quite excellent once further developed and supported.

    1. Re:No, But Maybe. by dugancent · · Score: 1

      It's not, and never was, hip to get offended for using "sheeple", it just made you look like an idiot. Still does.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    2. Re:No, But Maybe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      FFS. Can you please shut up about Betteridge's law of headlines?

      No.

  3. Not really by Desler · · Score: 1

    Unless the two dominant sources of e-books (Amazon and Apple) support it: no.

    1. Re:Not really by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless the two dominant sources of e-books (Amazon and Apple) support it: no.

      That would be a yes then:

      Amazon infuses e-books with HTML5 power with new KF8 format
      It’s Official: iBooks Now Supports Epub3 which is based on XHTML1.1 which introduced html5 features to XHTML

  4. LaTeX anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    These problems were solved years ago....

    1. Re:LaTeX anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing is that the current set of problems are not the same set that was solved so well by TeX and LaTeX. The focus of publishing is shifting from the printed page to the mobile digital screen. This brings a host of new issues and opens great new possibilities. Now we look for personalization, user interactivity, multiple media types, and the ability to link to and incorporate material from sources around the net.
          HTML5 though has a ways to go to generate the workflow and ecosystem necessary to support large scale publishing. As noted by Sanders though, O'Reilly seems to be making progress in using HTML5 for significant publishing efforts.
          The current publishing paradigm has significant momentum, not only in technology, but in how may practitioners think about the problem. An amazing amount of digital content carries over the same representations and style that was used when printing to paper. We can do so much more with modern tools.
          Of course I have thought that this shift was due for the past 15 years. Perhaps publishers will now look at the web as an opportunity rather than a threat.

  5. Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article: "HTML5 is actually an excellent source format for producing paginated content, as the CSS3 Paged Media Module can be utilized to design the eqiuivalent of a standard book template for print." But which popular user agents implement CSS3 paged media? It appears to be so obscure that caniuse.com has no results for "paged". This claims that only "labs" (alpha?) builds of Opera support it, and that was probably before Opera switched to being yet another WebKit wrapper. Wikipedia claims that most of the CSS3 paged media properties are completely unsupported in popular browsers.

    1. Re: Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      No one wants your stinkin' plugins to bring support for things and further shard the comparability of user agents.

      --
      signature is pants
    2. Re: Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      Ugh. Proofing fail, compatibility.

      --
      signature is pants
    3. Re:Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      HTML5 is actually an excellent source format for producing paginated content ...

      Which is actually completely untrue. HTML5 is a terrible source format because it is predominantly a visual markup, not a semantic one. You can sort of graft semantics onto it through CSS classes, but any such solution is inherently fragile and at the very least a publisher-specific standard, and likely a book-specific standard.

      DocBook is an excellent source format. Its tags are semantic by their nature, which makes it much better as a source format, because it can not only be trivially converted to HTML5 for electronic publication, but also to LaTeX for print publication. It will also be easy to convert from that to whatever format replaces HTML5 ten years from now. And of course you can always add additional semantic tags to extend it if you need some book-specific or publisher-specific functionality.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by nabsltd · · Score: 3, Informative

      HTML5 is a terrible source format because it is predominantly a visual markup, not a semantic one.

      Actually, HTML elements in ePub have defined semantic roles, primarily to allow assistive technologies to make better use of the content.

    5. Re: Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Douchebag? Don't project.

    6. Re:Almost nothing supports CSS3 paged media yet by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the semantic roles are mostly limited to things like buttons and other UI elements, which isn't really relevant for most books. Also, the entire notion of using attributes for semantic meaning instead of tag names is at best a hack to make things kind of work.

      HTML does have some semantic tags, mind you. The problem is not that you can't do semantic tagging, but rather that you can do non-semantic tagging. Most non-HTML output languages are inherently more structured than HTML is in its most minimally structured forms. Converting DocBook to LaTeX is easy because DocBook is always strictly structured (with a handful of awkward exceptions in the general vicinity of the bibliography, IIRC). Converting arbitrary HTML into LaTeX is a recipe for jumping out a tenth-story window.

      Thus, you can certainly use HTML5 as a source format, but it is far easier to stray from the one true path of rigorous semantic tagging with HTML5, and every time you do, you're creating content that will cause headaches for you later. Better to start with a more strictly structured markup language and relax the rules only when needed, rather than start with something inherently almost completely unstructured and try to enforce structural rules yourself. :-)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  6. DocBook FTW by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    I will never go back to anything containing "TeX" in the name.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  7. I don't think so... by djupedal · · Score: 1, Informative

    I'm living large with XML'd e-pubs, but I do use a bit of HTML5 storage in a few of my apps.

  8. Yes, HTML5 is the future of publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Two weeks ago I published the web edition of the Graphics Codex. It is HTML5, with full LaTeX, SVG, and complex text layout for quality and Javascript + links for interactivity. This is a port of the earlier iOS edition that I wrote, which had similar features but wasn't HTML5. After having written several traditional books and seen them massacred by conversion to PDF, MOBI, and ePUB, I think that HTML5 from the start is the way to go for future publishing.

    1. Re:Yes, HTML5 is the future of publishing by catmistake · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I disagree, strongly. There is nothing wrong with HTML5. The issue is that it is a non-issue . In physical publishing, the industry has long adopted PDF. It is ideal for printing. PDF is here for the forseeable future. If your book is being pressed, it doesn't matter if it was previously Word, LaTeX, HTML5, chiseled in granite, or you used your finger on a sandy beach and made molds with plaster; it's going to be normalized as PDF before it hits the press.

      For digital distribution there is room for all formats, and new formats no one has thought up... there is no purpose in even talking about this. Compose how you feel most comfortable; if physically publishing, send your content to the printers in any form you wish, they will normalize to PDF; make any format available that the digital consumer desires -- the cost of multiple formats is negligible... I imagine a perl or python or ruby script conversion for each format desired is all that is necessary, perhaps with some proofing to iron out wrinkles.

      Enjoy your preferred method of composition. But as I pleaded above, please stop evangelizing the need for a solution where no problem exists. HTML5 is not the One True Format, and all others despair in their inferiority. Give consumers the choice of all or any that they wish to use.

    2. Re:Yes, HTML5 is the future of publishing by dargaud · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In physical publishing, the industry has long adopted PDF. It is ideal for printing.

      ...but it absolutely SUCKS for reading on any kind of screen. It hardly ever reflows properly. Even on a large PC screen it's a pain to read a multicolumn pdf: you are always going up and down because top and bottom of page are outside the screen. You can imagine on an ereader... It's also very resource intensive on phone/ereader.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    3. Re:Yes, HTML5 is the future of publishing by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both methods of publishing will be around for quite a while. He is correct about physical publishing, you may be right about digital. The two opinions are not exclusive.

    4. Re:Yes, HTML5 is the future of publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It hardly ever reflows properly.

      PDF doesn't "reflow" ever, period. Its not meant to... what it gives you is identical content everywhere it is used, no matter the platform. It is not necessarily ideal for eReaders, unless to want an eBook that is identical content to the printed version. I have found I prefer PDF versions of magazines because I prefer content that identical to the published version, even though the copy appears small on a small screen, and I have to magnify the page to read it and scroll around.

  9. Not when there's Tex by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    You can't easily specify printout options with HTML for one...

  10. Let's all buckle our seatbelts by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    Because we're in for a sustained campaign of "all documents in the cloud" opinion pieces driven courtesy of cloud providers and companies that make money off of sniffing your panties, like Google.

    HTML 5 as of now represents a regressive step in page layout and rendering relative to what can be done by other word processing technologies. It's good for making web pages but as a universal lingua for all written communication it's lacking a lot. Also the really interesting things around the evolution of written documents and writing itself are outside of the scope of HTML5 and as such represent non-standardized efforts by privater groups and individuals. We're talking things like novel representations of information and collaborative editing.

    Those things will may be open sourced or closed source efforts. Even if they're open sourced, that's still not a standard and are not going to be standards since the process of creating standards is always (over) run by competing commercial interests who attempt to define those standards to advantage themselves and disadvantage their competitors . This is why the standards process proceeds at a glacial pace,, if it ever concludes at all, why the *real* people quit such committees in disgust.

    Everything in the cloud is the Next Big Thing according to the people with Big Money who spend their time trying to discover / create / profit from The Next Big Thing. That doesn't mean it serves any real need. The play here is to "get as many people using it as possible, like Twitter and Facebook and Pinterest, then through the magic of network effects, everyone WILL use it. Then - profit.

    The thing is, is doesn't solve any problem but it creates lots of new ones around security and privacy .

    Sure, sharing group oriented documents at some points in their creation implies they're living on a server somewhere. And there are models of group authorship which are superior to lone efforts- Wikipedia is of course the best known.

    But the death of custom word processors and the death of private storage and the death of general purpose computing CPUs ? I mean, I am sure there are forces in society who not only earnestly hope for such outcomes, but campaign for them using all their considerable resources, it's just one of those things people are smart enough to reject.

  11. Pay the Writer by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

    So how will this revolution make sure that the writer gets paid? As Harlan Elison says, Pay the Writer! Don't get me wrong, I love writing and am not looking for top dollar for my own small efforts, but all I see is sites wanting free writing. I do it myself, but at least I don't have ad dollars coming in off the backs of the few people who contribute to my site.

  12. Wha? by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 1

    SO how did chm work out? You see many books in that.

    Put simply the stuff I am writing is not in HTML format and never will be if I can help it.

    1. Re:Wha? by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

      SO how did chm work out? You see many books in that.

      CHM??? chm is a piece of utter garbage by Microsoft, intended as Compiled HTML Help.

      HTML5, on the other hand, is actually rather decent.

    2. Re:Wha? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      HTML5 on the other hand, is a bit of a bitch if you want to embed resources in a single file for distribution.

      CHM is pretty much an archive designed to store HTML files and supporting artefacts, along with indexes for searching. Nothing really stopping you using HTML5 in a CHM file, since it is rendered with IE anyway.

    3. Re:Wha? by sidthegeek · · Score: 1

      HTML5 on the other hand, is a bit of a bitch if you want to embed resources in a single file for distribution.

      It's not impossible. You can use the data: URI scheme to embed Base64-encoded files. It increases the filesize considerably, though.

    4. Re:Wha? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      That's why I said it was a bitch, not impossible.

  13. BookJS by johanneswilm · · Score: 1

    You should check out BookJS ( http://sourcefabric.github.io/BookJS/ ). It's made so you can design book pages in the Chrome browser and create PDFs using the browser's print-to-pdf function. it can handle footnotes, floats, margin notes, etc. . It's being used in Fidus Writer ( http://www.fiduswriter.org/ ) and Booktype ( http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/booktype/ ). However, going on with Fidus writer, I am less sure that book editing can be directly done woith HTML, without a large amount of Javascript, basically because the contenteditable feature is so broken in most browsers. I have filed tickets with Chrome and Firefox.

  14. So what is ePub then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ePub is just HTML in a glorified wrapper. If you're going to make a work available in ePub then HTML should be a given. However it shouldn't matter at all what tool the author uses to compose his work. Presentation for publication and distribution is the job of editors.

    Now whether or not the author wishes to be the editor of their own work is another story. Some want that level of control, and others don't really care.

    Also sloppy piss-poor formatting in electronic publications means the editor isn't doing their job. There is more to it than just doing a straight OCR scan or copy-pasta from the source text file. And then they wonder why people don't want to pay as much or even more for an electronic instead of paper edtion. (At least from what I've seen, the guys that work on the paper editions take pride in their work. Doesn't seem so on the e-side. It's like they handed it off to some intern who's task of getting coffee for everyone else is more important.)

  15. yes, but by Tom · · Score: 1

    HTML5 is great for text. Like, basically, any markup language. If you write a novel or something, you basically just need text with less than a dozen markers for where chapters start and such. Then you send it to your publisher and they'll do their part.

    Now if you write something more interesting, then HTML5 isn't the solution, mostly because there aren't any good editors and readers/browsers still don't guarantee you a good result. For stuff that requires DTP, you are better off with PDF today, and probably for a while.

    And if you do your own typesetting, and/or if you want a professional look instead of the amateur crap that most word processing software (and most of the cheap DTP programs) generate, nothing beats LaTeX and nothing will in the forseable future.

    Actually, thinking about that I need to rephrase:

    Yes, HTML5 is great if you're an amateru posting a blog who doesn't care how your shit looks to the reader, because all of the 5 people reading your blog couldn't spot the difference anyway.

    If you want to publish a book, if you care about writing and reading at all, if you don't want to contribute to the downfall of civilization, for fucks sake, think about typesetting.

    Here's a few starters:
    http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2010/01/the-trouble-with-word-processors/
    http://oestrem.com/thingstwice/2007/05/latex-vs-word-vs-writer/
    http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/110133/visual-comparison-between-latex-and-word-output-hyphenation-typesetting-ligat

    Now if only there were a WYSIWYG LaTeX editor for OS X that's as easy to use as Pages - I'd be using it all day.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:yes, but by nabsltd · · Score: 1, Informative

      If you write a novel or something, you basically just need text with less than a dozen markers for where chapters start and such.

      There are very few novels that don't use some sort of alternate text (italics, bold, etc.), so that has to be noted in some way.

      Then, you have structures like in-chapter breaks, first paragraph differences, date/location notations, chapter name/number, etc., where it's very likely an author has an strong idea for what the final result should look like. At the extreme end, you have novels like The Andromeda Strain which is as complex in specific formatting requirements as a math textbook.

      The primary difference today is that authors have many tools available that allow them to convey the desired look and feel to the publisher. And, for that, HTML is a lot more tedious than a WYSIWYG word processor. Someday, someone is going to write a WYSIWYG word processor that can output high-quality, compact HTML plus CSS, but none of those exist right now.

    2. Re:yes, but by Tom · · Score: 1

      There are very few novels that don't use some sort of alternate text (italics, bold, etc.), so that has to be noted in some way.

      Much fewer than you think, that seems to be a curse of modern times. I could quote a friend of mine who works in the publishing industry and said something like "bold does not belong into a novel, EVER".

      But yes, that and some titles and such are what a semantic markup language needs, and is why I said it needs some markers instead of saying plain text would do.

      And, for that, HTML is a lot more tedious than a WYSIWYG word processor.

      Frankly, 99% of the people using a word processor don't know how to use it. Everyone who submits a manuscript in Word format where he used individual formating instead of styles should be banned from writing anything again for five years (and life if he didn't spend that time learning how to use styles).

      But it's not so much the fault of the authors as the tool. Those stupid crap WYSIWYG editors don't give you a visual indication of where your content is properly styled and where it's just crap you fixed with duct tape.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  16. HTML & XHTML by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Actually, once XHTML came out, why do we have HTML being perpetrated at all, instead of switching over completely to XHTML?

    1. Re:HTML & XHTML by tepples · · Score: 1

      The HTML form of HTML5 is easier to hand-code, and once you parse it, its DOM is equivalent to that of the XHTML form of HTML5 anyway. And there are still UAs out there that don't support XHTML's MIME type at all but do support a subset of HTML5's HTML form.

  17. HTML 5 == XML, no? by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

    Actually, once XHTML came out, why do we have HTML being perpetrated at all, instead of switching over completely to XHTML?

    I thought HTML 5 finally was valid XML? And without all the jiggery-pokery of XHTML and different DTD flavors.

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
    1. Re:HTML 5 == XML, no? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Actually, once XHTML came out, why do we have HTML being perpetrated at all, instead of switching over completely to XHTML?

      I thought HTML 5 finally was valid XML? And without all the jiggery-pokery of XHTML and different DTD flavors.

      According to Wikipedia it is "... also an attempt to define a single markup language that can be written in either HTML or XHTML syntax. XHTML5 is " the XML serialization of HTML5". I take this to mean that it can be written as XML without jiggery-pokery, but it is not mandatory to write well-formed XML.

    2. Re:HTML 5 == XML, no? by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

      Actually, once XHTML came out, why do we have HTML being perpetrated at all, instead of switching over completely to XHTML?

      I thought HTML 5 finally was valid XML? And without all the jiggery-pokery of XHTML and different DTD flavors.

      According to Wikipedia it is "... also an attempt to define a single markup language that can be written in either HTML or XHTML syntax. XHTML5 is " the XML serialization of HTML5". I take this to mean that it can be written as XML without jiggery-pokery, but it is not mandatory to write well-formed XML.

      Gah. I dearly hope that well-formed HTML 5 is also perforce well-formed XML, and we don't have any more of that closing-tags-optional rubbish. I did see on the Talk page of that Wikipedia article that HTML 5 might be identical in both HTML and XML/XHTML incarnations, with the only real difference being the mime type declared by the server. I'm not sure if I should hold my breath, though...

      --
      "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
      "A four-foot prune."
  18. YES! by __aayhdn3968 · · Score: 1

    I definitely think HTML, CSS and JS is the future of publishing. In fact, I'll go ahead and say the transition has already started. If you look at what's happening right now, book sales, magazine and newsprint subscriptions are on the decline in favor of information gathered from the internet. People generally don't like picking up a book to look up some info when Google is readily available and decreases the amount of time required to get said information. Also, writers will not have to learn anything different, there are already WYSIWYG editors for HTML in existence, they only thing that is missing is a standardized CSS file for them to use that creates all the justified columns and what not they require. HTML5 is also very descriptive about it's data when used properly, unlike PDF's generated with a series of images (I really hate reading these on my kindle!). Also when you add javascript to the mix things like those old childrens books with scroll wheels for animations becomes possible again. HTML5, CSS3, and JS will provide much more rich content than what is currently available, not to mention it's an open standard and can work on any device implementing a web browser.

  19. No preview on mobile by tepples · · Score: 1

    Slashdot's mobile comment entry form has no preview button.

  20. text-align: justify by tepples · · Score: 1

    Good luck getting full justification with HTML 5.

    In which browser does CSS text-align: justify fail? This page claims it works in Firefox, Safari, and and Chrome since 1.0 and IE and Opera since 3.x. Could you explain the problem you ran into in more detail? Was the problem that lack of automatic insertion of &shy; (which turns into a hyphen at the end of a line) caused rivers of whitespace?

    1. Re:text-align: justify by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's been years since I've had a web page and haven't kept up with the newer language features. If that does give full justification, why aren't the newspapers using it? Paper editions do.

    2. Re:text-align: justify by tepples · · Score: 1

      If that does give full justification, why aren't the newspapers using it? Paper editions do.

      Probably the lack of automatic hyphenation, as I mentioned, combined with a tendency for columns to be wider (in ems) on the screen than in a printed newspaper. The H&J settings need to be more aggressive for a 15em* newspaper column than for a 32em web column.

      * Based on an 11 pica standard column with an 8.8 point font.