Slashdot Mirror


Trans-Pacific Cable Plans Mired In US-China Geopolitical Rivalry

An anonymous reader writes "Attempts to build a new telecommunications cable between the US, New Zealand and Australia have become a nexus for the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China in the Pacific. The U.S. is reportedly creating a technology ring fence to match its military one and contain China's ambitions in the Pacific. The U.S. military could even help pay for any planned new cable to link its bases in American Samoa with its expanding military presence in Australia's Northern Territory. It has been made 'very clear' U.S. authorities would not allow significant Chinese investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."

32 of 162 comments (clear)

  1. Don't mess with America by arcite · · Score: 4, Funny

    Submersible hunter-killer drones lie in wait to defend America's freedom cable and orbital defense platforms defend the space above from communist tyranny. Long live freedom's reign.

    1. Re:Don't mess with America by SB9876 · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure the parent was being sarcastic, man.

    2. Re:Don't mess with America by gman003 · · Score: 2

      We Americans are also #1 in sarcasm.

    3. Re:Don't mess with America by davester666 · · Score: 2

      Only because we are having quite some difficultly acquiring the drugs necessary to execute people "humanely", otherwise we would be working on challenging China for executions/100,000...

      IOW, we WANT to kill more people, we just have to find new ways to do it.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:Don't mess with America by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      America: Also #1 in forgetting other countries exist.

  2. NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Of course they need to lay NSA tapped cables.

    1. Re:NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Makes one wonder if China's backdoors might conflict with the NSA installed backdoors.

    2. Re:NSA by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course they need to lay NSA tapped cables.

      Exactly.

      This is nothing to do with politics, just practicality.
      The NSA knows well just how much stuff can be gleaned from an under sea cable, so why would they want anyone else putting their equipment in place to tap into later? Too many taps spoils the surprise.

      When the US worries about Chinese routers and switches it is most likely that someone in government already has "un-detectable" back doors into US made switches, routers and software. When they worry and bluster in congress about Chinese Cellular transmitter equipment it is likely because they already have all the other manufacturers compromised.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:NSA by icebike · · Score: 2

      Cutters aren't the problem the US is worried about.
      Taps are.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Trust me the Americans are the enemy of the free world.

      And China isn't?

    5. Re:NSA by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I miss the Cold War, when there were competing systems instead of a race to the bottom.

  3. toleration violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction.

    Given the USAs recent activities, maybe the use of USA companies and gear should also not be tolerated.

    1. Re:toleration violation by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's already happening.

      Brazil is pulling away from doing business with US tech firms.
      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-19/nsa-spying-gives-advantage-to-brazil-s-local-tech-firms.html

      Germany is pissed:
      http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/08/14/german-backlash-to-nsa-spying-gets-stronger/

      EU in general is looking elsewhere for technology:
      http://gigaom.com/2013/06/07/nsa-spying-scandal-fallout-expect-big-impact-in-europe-and-elsewhere/

      Business world wide is starting to look elsewhere:
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/09/10/how-the-nsa-revelations-are-hurting-businesses/

      Cloud Computing was just sentenced to death by NSA
      http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/04/spying-bad-for-business/

      The NSA revelations will prove to be one of the biggest detriments to US computer technology business in decades.
       

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:toleration violation by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Logically as it is bound to essential infrastructure. All government sourced, installed and owned. All based around open source hardware and software to ensure compatibility and so the public can be aware of what is going on. Cost more, hmmm, so what. Greater public control and scrutiny. Basically if a country does not produce their own communications infrastructure then their communications is under the control of who ever does, end of story.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:toleration violation by thesupraman · · Score: 2

      You do realise, of course that there has been exactly ZERO evidence of any form of backdooring in the
      chinese gear that the US is working to block and has successfully blocked now from many projects, mainly
      3G/4G cell rollouts?

      You dont think that just perhaps the whole thing was a smokescreen to make SURE that the backdoored US
      gear was used, rather than the actually secure chinese gear?

      Hmmmm.

  4. Giving the example to the world by gmuslera · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now if the rest of the world have a hint, they just need to use their own words

    It has been made 'very clear' (some country) authorities would not allow significant U.S. investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of U.S. gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."

    Brazil is already doing something of this, and more countries should follow.

  5. Of course! by Jmc23 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The USA wants only their taps and backdoors working on those cables!

    --
    Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    1. Re:Of course! by auric_dude · · Score: 2

      Don't worry, USS JImmy Carter is on the job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter_(SSN-23) , http://defensetech.org/2005/02/21/jimmy-carter-super-spy/ & http://cryptome.org/eyeball/mmp/jimmy-carter.htm but things may well have moved on a fair bit since then.

  6. Flip it by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

    China is building a cable across the Pacific, and American firms want to invest and use their equipment. Suddenly it sounds rational to disallow foreigners. How's that work?

    I get the idea that Americans just aren't allowed to do anything that's in their national interest. If the Chinese government (and that's what state-owned enterprises means) wants to invest and install their own equipment, then the Americans must allow them! The Chinese will install spyware on the cable? Oh, boo hoo you Americans will just have to take it because you're bad people and hurt puppies!

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  7. Re:Easy answer... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Informative

    China had, at last count, almost two thousand nuclear weapons and climbing.

  8. Re:Easy answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If they actually hold true to their word is open for debate, but China also tried to push for a "no first strike" agreement but no one would sign on.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
    "China undertakes not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon States or nuclear-weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances."

    I like the nato reponse :"preemptive nuclear strike is a key option"
    So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options" such as enless threats of using them?

  9. Re:Easy answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons. Either that, or develop their own.

    There are only 8 states known to have nuclear weapons (nine if you count Israel). If you are too fucking ignorant to know that China is one of them, which undermines most of your supposed argument, then you have no business discussing foreign policy.

    And China isn't running around hunting down its ex-pats in Russian airports when its citizens come forward and say what its government is up to. They just stare blankly into the camera and then say "We make you iphone! iPhone good! You want more iphones? Shut up." ... and that's the end of it. -_-

    This manages to be both idiotic, ignorant and racist all in one, so that's awesome.

    Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.

  10. Re:Easy answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    hey dumbass ... every space faring nation (china is one) has a delivery mechanism.

  11. This Doesn't Help the People by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China

    If anything the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades; scratch that - for certain the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades.

    Only a bunch of crazy old men claiming to represent the people could continually fuck this up. To them I say: "get out of the way."

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:This Doesn't Help the People by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you referring to the US Congress or the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  12. Re:Easy answer... by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Until somebody develops the ability to nuke all it's enemies globally instantly, and synchronized down to the second globally, there's no point in signing such an agreement as MAD pretty much ensures that nobody is going to be using nuclear weapons.

    Consequently, that treaty was just an effort to bolster China's image on the world stage. If there were really any purpose to such a treaty, it would have been signed a long time ago.

  13. Re:Easy answer... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 3, Informative

    And they presently lack an effective delivery mechanism.

    Except for the 65 odd ICBMs.

  14. Then let the countries decide by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who do you prefer listening into your communications? The US or China?

    Given the inherent malignity of state entities, which is the least-worst?

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Then let the countries decide by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US, certainly. In China, Snowden would have been hunted down by internal security, given a quiet trial, and executed shortly thereafter and his organs harvested. In America not only was Snowden able to escape due to not having to go to a government office and get an exit visa for his passport (documenting where you're going, when, for how long, and showing airline tickets and hotel reservations, then the government will allow you to leave) but he was soundly cheered by many Americans.

      As a Westerner who has been in China for years now and speaks Mandarin, people only like China because they reflexively hate America and either don't know anything about China or project their wants and desires on China. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."

      You can shame America into doing things...what just happened in Syria? China just doesn't care unless you're Chinese. And even then, it's a stretch.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  15. Sovereign nations? by manu0601 · · Score: 2

    I am not sure I understand this story: why US has its word to say about who is connecting Australia and New Zaeland? Aren't theses territories sovereign nations?

    1. Re:Sovereign nations? by fido_dogstoyevsky · · Score: 2

      I am not sure I understand this story: why US has its word to say about who is connecting Australia and New Zaeland? Aren't theses territories sovereign nations?

      We like to think so, but we have our doubts (especially now that Tony is PM).

      --
      It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
  16. typical American Exceptionalism BS by Uberbah · · Score: 2

    The US, certainly.

    How many Al Jazeera offices has the Chinese military bombed in the last 10 years? Has the PM of China personally called a third world dictator to keep a journalist imprisoned and tortured, like Obama did with Yemen?

    In America not only was Snowden able to escape due to not having to go to a government office and get an exit visa for his passport

    Nonsensical talking point. Getting an exit visa wouldn't have changed anything, because Snowden chose Hong Kong precisely because it wouldn't raise red flags with the government as opposed to flying to Caracas.

    but he was soundly cheered by many Americans

    By people like Bradley Manning, who was subjected to two years of psycological torture before being tried in a kangaroo court.

    As a Westerner who has been in China for years now and speaks Mandarin, people only like China because they reflexively hate America and either don't know anything about China or project their wants and desires on China. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."

    Or, they aren't total morons and can see who the most belligerent bully in the world is. How many nations has China bombed, how many worldwide torture programs has it run while trying to tap and store the communications of everyone on the planet.

    what just happened in Syria?

    The Nobel Peace Prize winner, who desperately wanted to bomb a country, was clowned by a former KGB stooge who swooped in with a peace deal. What about it?