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Trans-Pacific Cable Plans Mired In US-China Geopolitical Rivalry
An anonymous reader writes "Attempts to build a new telecommunications cable between the US, New Zealand and Australia have become a nexus for the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China in the Pacific. The U.S. is reportedly creating a technology ring fence to match its military one and contain China's ambitions in the Pacific. The U.S. military could even help pay for any planned new cable to link its bases in American Samoa with its expanding military presence in Australia's Northern Territory. It has been made 'very clear' U.S. authorities would not allow significant Chinese investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."
Submersible hunter-killer drones lie in wait to defend America's freedom cable and orbital defense platforms defend the space above from communist tyranny. Long live freedom's reign.
Of course they need to lay NSA tapped cables.
would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction.
Given the USAs recent activities, maybe the use of USA companies and gear should also not be tolerated.
The US wants to be the only body involved who can spy on the traffic and perform man-in-the-middle attacks.
It's stopping terrorism.
Now if the rest of the world have a hint, they just need to use their own words
It has been made 'very clear' (some country) authorities would not allow significant U.S. investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of U.S. gear in its construction. 'It was made very clear. These are cables connecting whole countries. These are very political things,' one insider said."
Brazil is already doing something of this, and more countries should follow.
The USA wants only their taps and backdoors working on those cables!
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Pot calling the kettle black one stamped Made in the USA the other Made in China.
Of course you want them to keep the loans in place and continue lending right?
US national debut to Mainland China is around $1.277 Trillion.
It has been made 'very clear' U.S. authorities would not allow significant Chinese investment in one cable project and it followed that they would not tolerate the use of Chinese gear in its construction.
Maybe they shouldn't have sat by and watched all US manufacturing migrate overseas then.
China is building a cable across the Pacific, and American firms want to invest and use their equipment. Suddenly it sounds rational to disallow foreigners. How's that work?
I get the idea that Americans just aren't allowed to do anything that's in their national interest. If the Chinese government (and that's what state-owned enterprises means) wants to invest and install their own equipment, then the Americans must allow them! The Chinese will install spyware on the cable? Oh, boo hoo you Americans will just have to take it because you're bad people and hurt puppies!
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
China had, at last count, almost two thousand nuclear weapons and climbing.
Why should we take it in the ass from NSA / America and not China?
Which country is heading to the future, and which is stagnating (at best).
When Americans learn to play nice in the world they can come back and have a seat at the grown up table.
Until then why not use cheaper Chinese cables and equiptment.
If they actually hold true to their word is open for debate, but China also tried to push for a "no first strike" agreement but no one would sign on.
:"preemptive nuclear strike is a key option"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
"China undertakes not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon States or nuclear-weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances."
I like the nato reponse
So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options" such as enless threats of using them?
What the US military will absolutely prevent is another Pearl Harbor attack.
There's billions of chinese, and only millions of Americans.
There is only one order of magnitude difference between the populations of USA and PRC, not three as your post implies.
Which is a meaningless statement for many reason. It's not like China is our poor mother who lends us a few billion every time we get into trouble. "Debt" on a national scale doesn't work that way, and US debt levels are not out of the ordinary.
Nobody understands debt.
Huh? Is the NSA afraid they'll have competition in the "listening in to the whole world" business if they allow China to install a cable that could contain Chinese backdoors and no USA backdoor? Sucks to be them.
Australia and NZ need more links to Asia than USA.
With all the NSA shenanigans, Im sure most people would prefer their data didnt go to the US anyway.
Asia is growing and US is stagnating, plan for the future.
I'd rather take it in the ass from China than the NSA, 'cause the Chinese won't come down on me if I critisize my own country (the USA). The NSA would put me on a list of suspectable terrorists. I'd definitely pick Chinese interference over NSA.
China and Russia must step up the game. I don't trust U.S gov in their ambitions to rule the world. They care less for the good of everyone, and more for securing their own place at the top.
Signature intentionally left blank.
China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons. Either that, or develop their own.
There are only 8 states known to have nuclear weapons (nine if you count Israel). If you are too fucking ignorant to know that China is one of them, which undermines most of your supposed argument, then you have no business discussing foreign policy.
And China isn't running around hunting down its ex-pats in Russian airports when its citizens come forward and say what its government is up to. They just stare blankly into the camera and then say "We make you iphone! iPhone good! You want more iphones? Shut up." ... and that's the end of it. -_-
This manages to be both idiotic, ignorant and racist all in one, so that's awesome.
Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.
If this were translated, millions of Chinese would laugh.
China had, at last count, almost two thousand nuclear weapons and climbing.
Uhh, try 200-300. And they presently lack an effective delivery mechanism. They're testing one now. They are not a significant threat to the United States at this time. Russia is.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I don't think you understood what I just said.
hey dumbass ... every space faring nation (china is one) has a delivery mechanism.
the growing rivalry between the U.S. and China
If anything the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades; scratch that - for certain the US and Chinese people have grown closer over the past decades.
Only a bunch of crazy old men claiming to represent the people could continually fuck this up. To them I say: "get out of the way."
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Until somebody develops the ability to nuke all it's enemies globally instantly, and synchronized down to the second globally, there's no point in signing such an agreement as MAD pretty much ensures that nobody is going to be using nuclear weapons.
Consequently, that treaty was just an effort to bolster China's image on the world stage. If there were really any purpose to such a treaty, it would have been signed a long time ago.
Nobody understands debt, including Paul Krugman.
You seriously think they'd be able to get a nuke onto a ship without being noticed? If it were truly that easy, we wouldn't be bothering with missiles at all.
American cable = NSA, CIA, FBI, DHS, ICE spying
China cable = PLA, Korea spying
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
I love how the anti-American bigots trot this sort of bullshit out, without context.
The US had a sterling record compared with any other nation that's gone through an industrial revolution. What's more, the industrial revolution happened well before we had any concept of the long term consequences to the destruction. The Chinese are well aware of global warming and the rest, they've chosen to engage in dangerous policies because they view it to be better than enforcing their own regulations.
As far as the lakes and rivers go, again, nobody realized the consequences when things were being built. But, now that we do know better, the water is being cleaned and for the most part is clean.
As for the currency manipulation, you wouldn't be saying that if you knew what was going on. The Chinese government still owns most of the enterprises in China. They withhold pay that should be going to the workers in order to lend money to American businesses and the government. The net effect of that is that you've got a lot of people working for very little and the normal adjustment to the currency value doesn't happen because they're sending cash back to counter act that.
In the long term that's extremely dangerous as at some point they won't be able to afford to keep lending money, at which point the wages will need to rise and when that happens they won't be able to export as many goods. It's going to get extremely nasty if they don't manage it right. Or they'll wind up with prolonged stagnation as things catch up.
And they presently lack an effective delivery mechanism.
Except for the 65 odd ICBMs.
So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options"
What's so hard to understand about that? NATO will only use nukes in defense. That includes defending against chemical or biological attacks, for example. Signing on to a NFU treaty would take away that option.
So you want the objectively more oppressive country on top, to the detriment of billions, because it won't personally affect you. What a great guy you are.
and why the fuck would you not consider israel? you know damn well they have nukes.. they just don't advertise it, as an official and verified declaration of their capability would make iran go crazy nutzo.
<SARCASM>Because we can trust American hardware not to have NSA back doors, right?</SARCASM>
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Ya know, using a strawman & following it up with an ad hominem, really changed my mind in this case. I was totally wrong that I, as a U.S. citizen, have more to fear from the NSA than from China. I'm really glad you opened my eyes to the fact I was wrong, by pointing out how selfish I was being to not think about how 1 billion Chinese would be no better or worse off than they already are. Which, wasn't really the point I was making, but hey, you sure did tear down that point. Thanks! :-)
PS. Recommend you learn more about Chinese oppression from some sources that aren't so biased against China, and learn more about U.S. oppression, then compare the two, before you make blanket statements about who's more "objectively more oppressive", to support your world view.
The Chinese should just build a cable anyway and run it for cheaper than everybody else. I know where the traffic will go.
"without context", nice, please share some "context" when it would be OK to polite a river until it catches fire, or bury nuclear waste in cardboard boxes. Also reconcile this with why third world nations are not allowed to consume energy and evolve.
Oh, Yes, we learned... September 19, 2013 at 6:20pm
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-13500-gallons-of-oil-spill-i
What they are worried somebody else it going to be listening in on every conversation apart from them !
"I love how the anti-American bigots trot this sort of bullshit out, without context."
So where is the contect of all the "bad things" that the pro-Merkin shitheads bang out all the time?
Or is the context "I'm a Merkin, therefore I cannot be a bad guy"?
His point was that if you have space capability, you have the ability to launch a nuke *without ships* - any orbital lift capability can double as an ICBM with relatively minor modifications, and can theoretically hit any point on the planets surface.
Would the United States ever actually use nuclear weapons? http://thebulletin.org/would-united-states-ever-actually-use-nuclear-weapons# would suggest that targets and reasons for the use of the US nuclear weapons are rather limited and the perhaps the US has an over abundance of kit in the post Cold War era.
When Americans learn to play nice in the world they can come back and have a seat at the grown up table.
Please do not confuse Americans with their government. Quite a few of us strongly disapprove of what the NSA has done and have been noisy about it.
That's why Bush was trying to get the U.S. to develop nuclear bunker busters?
Would the United States ever actually use nuclear weapons?
Er... the United States is the (singular) country to ever have used nuclear weapons (plural). Granted, it probably won't use them (again). But as far as statistics go, so far it's still USA 2 x 0 Everyone-Else-Summed.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
um 1.3 billion verses .3 billion
where is that order of magnitude again?
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
When you make a post stating China is not a nuclear power, you lose all right to arrogantly correct someone later about specific numbers of warheads. Also, you're still a moron. China is a space faring nation. Any nation that can send up space launches can deliver warheads anywhere in the world.
Stop posting. Really. Stop. Every post you make embarrasses you further.
Who do you prefer listening into your communications? The US or China?
Given the inherent malignity of state entities, which is the least-worst?
-Styopa
China needs someone in their corner with nuclear weapons
Are you forgetting Dennis Rodman's batshit insane friend? North Korea's existence depends entirely on being China's delightfully-insane-but-moderately-dangerous second cousin who is locked in the basement and only let out to amuse the neighborhood kids.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Enlighten us, how does debt work? Does it have to be repaid? Will future generations be thankful the current generation had so much of it? Why did the US just have a "debt ceiling crisis" not long ago?
So other countries get soft loans and have to pay them back in real hard currency... via massive taxes or selling off national infrastructure.
"Debt" on a "US" national scale doesn't work that way? - as in never pay back "work that way" or some other trading/computer/war/political trick?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I am not sure I understand this story: why US has its word to say about who is connecting Australia and New Zaeland? Aren't theses territories sovereign nations?
So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options"
What's so hard to understand about that? NATO will only use nukes in defense. That includes defending against chemical or biological attacks, for example. Signing on to a NFU treaty would take away that option.
Everybody understood just fine. Everybody also knew full well that "defense against chemical or biological" attacks also include potential ones, i.e. pre-emptive strike. And of course, whenever convenient, cyberattacks or humanitarian disaster would be included in the list of potential "attacks" to be defended against, which basically opens the door to strike anyone anytime.
A kind of "defense" which, for most of the world, just means "offense".
Take a clue, nobody buy these word games anymore.
I think they were chosen by Jeebus, or something. Im prety sure it gives them a free pass.
The USA is reported to have a long history of cable tapping, Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/dp/006097771X/ref=sr_1_1
"For decades American submarines have roamed the depths in a dangerous battle for information and advantage in missions known only to a select few. Now, after six years of research, those missions are told in Blind Man's Bluff, a magnificent achievement in investigative reporting. It reads like a spy thriller -- except everything in it is true. This is an epic of adventure, ingenuity, courage, and disaster beneath the sea, a story filled with unforgettable characters who engineered daring missions to tap the enemy's underwater communications cables and to shadow Soviet submarines."
Article is very racist!!! China has had sovereignty over Pacific region for 5000 years and brought prosperity and peace. America is barbaric and gives nothing to the world. Slashdot needs greater editorial oversight to ensure the respect of Chinese people!
8 (9) sounded right, but here's the list anyway:
United States, Russia, United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel (Undeclared)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons
The USA has spent it's history thinking that the enemy was
1) The British
2) The native Americans
3) The Mexicans
4) The Russians
5) The Chineese
In time they may work out what the rest of the world has known all along. The French are the real enemy,
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Hey Cold Fjord...sorry I mean Anonymous Coward:
I like your style, you seem very hypocritical and proud of it.
I just wish you wouldn't shit your panties so much dismissing an obvious inferior wannabe.
The acrid stench of your trying too hard diarrhea is getting a bit overwhelming.
You fail to understand order-of-magnitude approximations.
Oh, that's easy...
1 billion = "an order of magnitude"
1 million = "an order of Congress"
1 thousand = "an order of iPads"
1 = "an order of fries"
You know what they say about Chinese gears - you never get full once using it !!!
Yup, no delivery system here... no siree...
Not saying it's fully operational, but news reports are sketchy... I doubt you could say for sure one way or the other unless you were in the Chinese Navy.
> ... as MAD pretty much ensures that nobody is going to be using nuclear weapons.
Unless there is a mistake, such as the one where a training program was left in NORAD computers. Or there is a system failure, such as the one that happened to Russian computers. Or there is an accidental detonation during transportation, such as nearly happened in 1961 in North Carolina. And it can be helped along by poor security, such as the US launch code of 0000.
I think it's pretty simple. The ones that pay are the ones that can decide the sources for their equipment. If two entities each pay a bit, they can both decide. If two entities want to form an alliance to pay, they don't need to allow other entities in to the alliance. Thus if AU/NZ/US don't want China involved (don't forget AU has already said no to a certain Chinese manufacturer supplying for their NBN), then they can choose not to get China involved, and can choose not to use Chinese equipment.
So you run around telling the world you will use them only in defense AND wont sign a NFU as it "limits options" such as enless threats of using them?
I gather from your question mark that you have a question. So what is it? It's rather obvious that the best defense against a nuclear attack is to stop the attack before it starts. Preemptive nuclear strike is one way to attempt that.
When I was in Mississippi some years ago, I got the impression they already considered the French an enemy.
Their War-On-Frenchfries was already well under way.
I love how the anti-American bigots trot this sort of bullshit out, without context.
Talking of context... anti-American? The guy kept saying EU/US, which means a shedload of other developed countries, and you immediate peg it as an attack on American masculinity. Nice.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Except for the 65 odd ICBMs.
After thumbing through the dense tomb that you posted, which was moderated +4, Informative, I find no mention of any intercontinental ballistic missiles. It is also three years older than my link, which wasn't in PDF form, and indicated they only had regional launch capability. The document you provided indicated they had only managed to create missiles with a 500 or so mile range. Barely enough to get the nuclear ordinance they've developed far enough up-wind to not eat the radioactive fallout after. China is a big country.
Perhaps a more careful investigation of documentation in the future would be helpful? But given how many times my factual statements have been moderated down in this thread in favor of bullshit exaggeration... it's not surprising. I expect the moderation on this one will serve to further confirm that Slashdot has become the Fox News of the IT world...
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Oh yeah, because China doesn't silence critics.
So you believe the Chinese would silence me for criticizing the USA?
How many Al Jazeera offices has the Chinese military bombed in the last 10 years? Has the PM of China personally called a third world dictator to keep a journalist imprisoned and tortured, like Obama did with Yemen?
Nonsensical talking point. Getting an exit visa wouldn't have changed anything, because Snowden chose Hong Kong precisely because it wouldn't raise red flags with the government as opposed to flying to Caracas.
By people like Bradley Manning, who was subjected to two years of psycological torture before being tried in a kangaroo court.
Or, they aren't total morons and can see who the most belligerent bully in the world is. How many nations has China bombed, how many worldwide torture programs has it run while trying to tap and store the communications of everyone on the planet.
The Nobel Peace Prize winner, who desperately wanted to bomb a country, was clowned by a former KGB stooge who swooped in with a peace deal. What about it?
How many overseas military bases and carrier groups does China have compared to the 700+ of the United States.
In the last 12 years, the U.S. has started two illegal wars of choice that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, millions of refugees, destabilized entire regions, conducted a worldwide kidnapping & torture program, and marks 50 innocent people for death for every alleged terrorist it bombs. And used chemical weapons on civilians in Iraq, the sort of thing it's claiming Assad should be bombed for doing.
Tell me how China gets remotely close to any of that.
is anybody making progress with satellite?