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Delta Replacing Flight Manuals with Surface Tablets

Frosty Piss writes "Delta Air Lines plans to buy 11,000 Microsoft Surface 2 tablets for its pilots to replace the heavy bundles of books and maps they haul around now. Delta says the Surface tablets will save it $13 million per year in fuel and other costs. Right now, each pilot carries a 38-pound flight bag with manuals and maps. Other airlines, including American and United, have been buying Apple's iPad for that purpose. One reason Delta picked a Microsoft device was that it's easier to give pilots separate sections for company and personal use, said Steve Dickson, Delta's senior vice president for flight operations. Another reason for picking the Surface tablet is that Delta's training software also runs on the same Windows operating system as the tablets, reducing the need to redo that software for another device, Dickson said."

45 of 244 comments (clear)

  1. My experience.... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here in AMC (Air Mobility Command, USAF) we use the iPad with an OtterBox case. Hope there is a tough case for the Surface, because even is a nice jet like the C-17, these things take a beating.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:My experience.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      my experience on the b-1 immediately lets me hate you

    2. Re:My experience.... by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're being given a Microsoft Surface instead of an iPad. They're already dead inside.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    3. Re:My experience.... by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      Ha! I was watching that at a friends house on her iPad sitting in a case at a 15-ish degree angle in an aftermarket case that had a keyboard. It was pretty high up on the unintentional irony scale. Good for a chuckle. There really is no USB port, though. No floppy drive, either.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:My experience.... by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet another example how people think they can get by with a tablet but just end up rebuilding the laptop.

    5. Re:My experience.... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I think MS is close to having just the right combination of both with Surface. Tablet touch only mode for viewing, but a nice keyboard/stand when you decide you want to write a comment or email. Lighter than a laptop and more portable.

      If they could just sort a few other aspects out like wireless charging, and then get the price right down to Nexus 7 levels I think they could be on to a winner. It's too expensive to complete with the Nexus and similarly priced tablets, not cool enough to command Apple premium level pricing. The concept itself is good though, and I'd buy one if it was competitively priced.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. "personal use" on flight-critical device by smash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... what could possibly go wrong?

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    1. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by bondsbw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Separating personal use from professional use is better than mixing them.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    2. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, we've seen what angry birds can do...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by Old-Claimjumper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, Wrong!

      The FAA requires up-to-date charts appropriate for the routes being flown. The FAA has approved these as legal substitutes for printed charts as long as they are current (at Least IPads are, I assume Delta will be getting approval for these things).

      So unless they are also carrying the "38 pounds" of paper charts, these things ARE flight critical devices by definition.

    4. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by skiflyer · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I was confused as to why they wouldn't just do that, or at least just have a pool of them at each airport. Drop it off when you finish your flight and it will be updated, charged, cleaned, etc.

      I guess you're saving even more weight if your pilot isn't also carrying a personal laptop for when he gets to the destination, and people do tend to take better care of devices if they're theirs... maybe that's the logic, or maybe the logic is in the article I didn't read.

    5. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not what flight critical means...

      perhaps not to the FAA's definitions section, but to muggles it sure seems critical to have maps and operations guides always available.

      These people are absolutely insane if they allow the devices to make a network connection to anything but a controlled updates server. Windows zero-days are real and common.

      I sure hope the Delta security folks got their recommendations in writing.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by smash · · Score: 2

      Compare the amount of malware available for the Windows platform to the amount of malware available for the iOS platform.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    7. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by smash · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much my line of thinking. Whilst in theory, iOS devices are also breakable, the comparison for instances of malware for the two platforms is night and day.

      Also, by default, on iOS, all applications are sandboxed. Whilst this may be true for metro apps on Windows 8, it most certainly is NOT true for non-metro applications.

      But in any case, I'd seriously suggest not running personal software on a device such as this irrespective of that. For a device in this role, I'd be locking it down tighter than fish's arse-hole - to the point where "personal use" beyond access to the corporate e-mail system would be pretty much impossible anyway.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    8. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by segin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TFA says they're buying Surface 2 tablets, not Surface Pro 2. Which use ARM processors. Which cannot run malware designed for x86. Which mostly invalidates your argument.

    9. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

      You needn't worry - these are Surface tablets.

      The flight crews have no interest in using them for anything personal.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    10. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 3, Informative

      As I understand it, normal practice is that the pilot stays with the same plane throughout their shift, unless technical issues require the airline to substitute another plane. Most pilots are only allowed to fly one type of plane. (They can retrain for a different model, but this takes a month or two. It isn't something you study up on a lay-over.) So they aren't going to fly a 737 in the morning and a 767 in the afternoon. (There are exceptions. The 757/767 pair and the A330/A340 pair were designed to have nearly identical cockpits so that pilots could swap between those types at will. Also, a few pilots are current on more than one type.)

      It makes sense - the pilots need as about as much downtime between flights as the planes do. If your schedule involved swapping pilots between planes, you'd get even more disruption by delayed flights than currently.

      "Co-pilot" is a misleading term. They are both pilots, one is captain and the other is first officer. Both are trained to do anything that needs to be done. 50% of take-offs and landings are performed by first officers rather than captains. (The non-flying pilot will be talking to ATC, troubleshooting technical issues and assisting the flying pilot in other ways.)

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    11. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Pretty much my line of thinking. Whilst in theory, iOS devices are also breakable, the comparison for instances of malware for the two platforms is night and day.

      Your statement is technically correct, but with the opposite meaning of what you think. This is the ARM-based non-Windows compatible Surface we are talking about here. I follow security and haven't seen any reports about malware for this platform yet. And it has significant protection in the new app/API model, it does run all apps in sandbox, and only running signed code.

      Not saying it is malware proof, and if people here have links to in-the-wild malware for ARM Surface I'd be truly interested to be corrected. But since there definitely are malware out there for iOS, this is currently the platform of these two on the negative side of your "night and day comparison" regarding malware.

    12. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by Alioth · · Score: 2

      The crash wasn't caused by a lack of a chart. The sort of information the crew had they'd know from their briefing, even if every handheld device failed in the flight deck. The crash was caused by basic airmanship (stick and rudder) skill problems.

    13. Re:"personal use" on flight-critical device by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2

      It is possible that their software was written using .NET, which could run on both full Windows and the ARM-based Windows RT.

  3. A third reason is they gave it to us free by the_B0fh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because I can't imagine them doing this any other wise. As pointed out else where, this is going to take 2 more years. $5.5 mil for iPads, or $13 mil in fuel savings per year. Hmm... Someone help me with the math here.

    And in two years, once the Surface 2 gets certified, what happens? Delta is now flying with 2 year old technology... whoopie.

    1. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by icebike · · Score: 2

      Buying 11,000 Microsoft Surface 2 tablets is not "gave it to us free".

      Surface 2 release date is set for October 22, not two years, and these don't have to be certified.
      Something that can show your flight maps and NOTAMS today will show the same in two years.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can tell you, I hate Microsoft for both rational and irrational reasons. But there is one area that Microsoft beats out the competition, and that is backwards compatibility. If you want to write software that will still run in 10 years, then choosing carefully among Microsoft technologies is a decent way to do that. So if I were Delta, and were deciding whether to do this on iPads or Window Tablets, I would also choose the Windows Tablet, because Apple has demonstrated they have no longterm (or medium term) commitment to backwards compatibility. That is especially true since they already have a codebase set up to run on Windows. Remember that the tablets themselves are likely the cheapest part of this whole operation.

      The best would be Linux tablets, because then you can own the whole software stack. The only drawback is the UI situation on Linux........

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If that's true, they why doesn't my old Windows software work under Vista or Win7 or Win8? Why do I have to use WINE to run my applications? I mean there's a zillion "compatibility" options and none of them work. But WINE, that works everywhere.

      Why do my windows applications work better on a Mac with WINE from MacPorts than Windows 7 or 8?

      People who say Microsoft has backwards compatibility have never tried it! You've just read the sales literature... Oh, and by the way, the word gullible is written on your ceiling.

    4. Re: A third reason is they gave it to us free by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Wrong, windows software migration is not guaranteed. Check with any major corporation the effort to migrate from 95, to 2000, xp, to vista oh sorry Vista had to be skipped and to 7.

      This is the point, right? Migrating from 95 to Windows 7 might be difficult on Windows.

      However, look at what we're comparing it against, Apple. Remember that no software sold before 2005 runs on the latest version of OSX. The Microsoft view is, "try to maintain backwards compatibility if we can." The Apple view seems to be, "maintain backwards compatibility when it's convenient."

      There are things compiled for DOS that still run on Windows today. There's nothing similar in the Apple world. Apple makes appliances, for better or worse.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Informative

      And in two years, once the Surface 2 gets certified, what happens? Delta is now flying with 2 year old technology... whoopie.

      If two years scares you, I pray you NEVER look at the age of some of the flight electronics in the cockpit. Some of those designs and products are over two decades old!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    6. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by Decker-Mage · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I support a lot of businesses that have little to no interest in the latest hardware or ripping out and replacing their software. That came about due to them putting all their (financial) eggs in a DOS/Windows/... basket and a total commitment that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I have no idea why you are using WINE when Dosbox does a pretty damn wonderful job of running the legacy (antique) software, especially games and productivity software. I just spent the day here segregating software by category and one of the major ones is legacy Microsoft.

      I'm running Windows 3.11 over DOS 6.22 here with no problems on a latest and greatest Z77 motherboard which I selected precisely due to the fact that it seems to be last machine with both floppy disk and IDE drive plugs on the motherboard. It's a weird job, but someone's got to be able to do it. Oh, and Turbo C++ runs on all versions of Windows to date here. Real handy for a quick filter/translate hack.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    7. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by Fishchip · · Score: 2

      Can you install Yellow Dog on your latest Mac Pro?

    8. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      True, when it comes to backwards compatibility, no one beats IBM, who still supports punch cards and OS/360 (albeit through emulation). You do pay for it, however.

      But between Apple and Microsoft, Microsoft has more commitment to backwards compatibility. The Linux kernel developers have a stronger commitment to backwards compatibility, but the userland libraries are not always so considerate........

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:A third reason is they gave it to us free by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2

      That was the case, but Microsoft has been making those awesome management decisions ....

      Obviously the first one was the Surface RT - ARM based and though it could be backwards-compatible with a recompile for the most part, MS won't allow you to run your old stuff on it, they want you to rewrite as Modern app using the new APIs and sell it only via their 30%-cut store.... In other areas they are dropping support for technologies they don't really want to support - Silverlight anyone?

      The UI situation on Linux is good, its just that the geek media is full of bull and hype - Ubuntu makes a good UI but the geeks will jump up and down shouting how its different and how Canonical has sold out, etc etc. Its still a decent UI that works well, even if not to your rabid geek's taste.

  4. Delta pilots don't want Surface. by GrBear · · Score: 5, Informative

    Considering the pilots fought to keep the iPads and didn't want Surface, there's more going on behind the scene here.

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/30/delta-pilots-fought-against-deal-to-replace-ipad-flight-bags-with-microsoft-surface

    1. Re:Delta pilots don't want Surface. by MatthiasF · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fanboy site takes one person's opinion and stretches it across entire group of people, fills rest of article with cherry-picked fluff from other sites.

      News at 11.

    2. Re:Delta pilots don't want Surface. by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Funny

      Fanboy site takes one person's opinion and stretches it across entire group of people, fills rest of article with cherry-picked fluff from other sites.

      While I applaud efforts to modernize aircraft guides, etc., I have to wonder if these will perform as well as regular print would in certain emergencies. Violent vibration is often a precursor to engine failure, for example, and anyone can tell you that trying to view an LCD that is on a vibrating surface is nearly impossible; Have they tested how well pilots can use this device in such an emergency?

      I'd like to know more about the testing that has gone into how well these devices integrate into crew functions during an emergency -- is it as fast? Faster? Will it function well during, say, an explosive decompression (or will the display shatter)? Can it be read in direct sunlight, or when heavy smoke is in the cabin? What procedures are in place to deal with sudden device failure -- do they have backups, one per pilot, one per crew?

      So far all I've heard is the benefits to Delta, the corporation: Reduced fuel costs. What I haven't heard of is how this affects flight safety. And to be clear, Delta doesn't have a great record when it comes to this -- AirTran and Southwest Airlines routinely beat them out, and these are budget airlines. Delta aspires to be the go-to for frequent business fliers, and those tickets are at a premium. Delta has routinely shown it is more profit than safety oriented, to the point that airlines with much smaller budgets routinely beat them on maintenance, training, and flight safety.

      Well, Delta... did you already prepare a press release for when it's discovered that an inability to access critical checklists during an emergency because of device failure or lack of training wasn't your fault? Or have you done the responsible thing and made sure there's redundancy and adequate training? I know which one costs more... the question is, which one did you pick.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  5. Surface no longer minor player by Marqis · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now MS has sold 11,023 tablets!

  6. Not flight critical by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 4, Informative

    My understanding* is that many airlines are doing this, and the flight critical standard and emergency check-lists are still kept in hard copy. The material no longer on paper will be things like approach maps for a few hundred airports, and manuals for seldom-adjusted aircraft systems. Should such documents be required but unavailable due to misfunctioning tablets, air traffic controllers and the airline's dispatch centre would be able to assist by radio.

    If there is a real pilot in the house, perhaps they could comment further.

    * I am a non-pilot with an interest in aviation, so I try to follow such developments via internet news sites.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    1. Re:Not flight critical by kybur · · Score: 2
      I flew for the airlines up until 2005, well before the tablets in the cockpit.

      None of the airlines are replacing critical paper copies with an electronic version. Historically, there would be three copies of all the manuals and charts, one for the captain, one for the first officer, and one for the airplane.

      The iPads replace the 40 pounds of paper that each pilot used to be required to carry.

      The aviaion industry is probably the most cautious and slow moving industry out there (in response to the poster who brought up decades-old technology in the cockpit). Pilots welcome the new technology -- it usually makes their jobs easier, but it must pass an unbelievable amount of scrutiny (over the course of many many years) before it can actually completely replace an older, but proven tech.

    2. Re:Not flight critical by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      I flew for the airlines up until 2005, well before the tablets in the cockpit.
      None of the airlines are replacing critical paper copies with an electronic version. Historically, there would be three copies of all the manuals and charts, one for the captain, one for the first officer, and one for the airplane.

      The iPads replace the 40 pounds of paper that each pilot used to be required to carry.

      The aviaion industry is probably the most cautious and slow moving industry out there (in response to the poster who brought up decades-old technology in the cockpit). Pilots welcome the new technology -- it usually makes their jobs easier, but it must pass an unbelievable amount of scrutiny (over the course of many many years) before it can actually completely replace an older, but proven tech.

      Actually, the impetus came from the pilots themselves. When Apple released the iPad in 2010, many pilots immediately saw the possibilities - there are many, many, MANY aviation apps for iOS. And these aren't dinky calculator apps meant to help you with your flight planning, either. They included maps, moving maps with geo-referenced plates (granted, the GA cockpits were having geo-referenced plates for years before the iPad), etc.

      And the big reason was - it's CHEAP. An iPad for $500, plus a GPS add on (another $500) was all you needed. Which for the pilot flying VFR, saved $25K worth of avionics upgrades and still got them what they'd use those avionics for.

      Hell, these days there are GPS and ADS-B add-ins for $900, and it's still cheaper than getting ADS-B in your avionics, even if you buy an iPad solely for it.

      Android's getting there, too.

      Windows probably had the first EFB apps (there were people selling preconfigured tablets for $5000 (still cheap) with full EFB capabilities. This was Windows XP tablet edition, though. Of course, you had to have ship power for it as tablets rarely lased much beyond 2 hours. An iPad or Android tablet can last far longer. Even then, newer planes have USB ports for power.

      The non-GA industry is being forced because a lot of commercial pilots fly recreationally, and the equipment in their GA aircraft are often a lot better than what they have in their bread and butter jets (even the latest ones). Heck, old hat things like having a plate on the MFD for reference usually doesn't exist (nevermind geo-referenced ones).

  7. please turn off all electronic devices by jasontheking · · Score: 2

    hey, can't you see I'm RTFMing ?

  8. Possible reasons? by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft would have offered a very sweetheart deal pricewise for this.

    From Delta's standpoint it would also have the advantage in that almost nothing runs on it, meaning that people aren't going to muck with it install crap software and malware on the Surface RT is all but unheard of. They also almost certainly would have offered some type of enterprise management tools for the tablets from MS.

    Enterprise support for the Ipad is a royal pain at best and tools are quite limited. The app store is oblivious to the concept that a computer could be owned my a company instead of a person. Support issues go far beyond these and their IT department doubtless didn't want to deal with it.

    I'm not endorsing the Surface RT and I've certainly gone on the record here about how it's a terrible tablet. I'm just explaining the logic behind the order. They certainly could have made a much better choice than the Surface RT.

  9. Turbulence ahead by Solandri · · Score: 4, Funny

    Another reason for picking the Surface tablet is that Delta's training software also runs on the same Windows operating system as the tablets, reducing the need to redo that software for another device, Dickson said."

    Considering they bought the ARM version of the tablet, someone's going to be very disappointed (and probably in a lot of trouble) when they discover that it does not run the same operating system as their training software. At least not unless their training software only runs on an extremely limited number of low-power computers.

    Good news is, Microsoft's deception campaign to trick people expecting to run Windows apps into buying their ARM OS is working.

  10. Don't hire Steve Dickson by tooyoung · · Score: 3, Funny

    In other words, think long and hard about having Steve Dickson make purchasing decisions for your company in the future....

  11. Good luck by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    I hope these work out a lot better than the Microsoft mobile scanners that we use on the ramp and in cargo to track bags/cargo. I'm 30 yards from the damn wireless transmitter and I lose signal at least once a day. Inside a giant warehouse. But yeah, I imagine they went with Microsoft tablets because most of the other computer systems Delta uses is Microsoft, so it streamlines things. However, over the past 6 months or so they have started to give out iPhones as company issued phones to managers and supervisors in the headquarters, but the ones on the ramp and other areas still use Blackberries.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  12. Re:They're saving only 38 pounds.. by Gogo0 · · Score: 2

    a (western airline) stewardess once told me that on long-haul or flights that have interesting destinations, the flight attendants with seniority get the assignment. thats why you see so many oldies on european/asian flights.

    as the other reply to your message stated, asians dont play that game. they only hire young cute girls (and the occasional young guy for some reason -maybe to lift things) to staff the aisles and ticket counters, sometimes also the security gate. makes the occasional pat-down far more pleasant, and flying overall much more bearable.

  13. BSOD by mythix · · Score: 2

    New meaning for Blue screen of death in 3...2...1...