Slashdot Mirror
BBC Unveils Newly Discovered Dr.Who Episodes
BigBadBus writes "Putting an end to months of speculation, the BBC announced at a press conference today that it had recovered 9 previously lost episodes of Dr.Who, from the Patrick Troughton era (1966-69). The episodes complete 'The Enemy of the World' and almost complete 'The Web of Fear' (leaving one episode outstanding). The episodes were found in a relay station in Nigeria by Phillip Morris; previously Nigeria had been checked and had returned 6 lost episodes in 1984. The episodes are now available from UK and US iTune stores and can be for pre-ordered from Amazon.co.uk"
and now they want to charge for them. Making them available via Bittorrent would be the moral choice.
Suppose a person taped that missing episode at that time for themselves. Would they get a share of the profit they make for archiving their stuff for 50 years or would they be prosecuted for theft if they came forward? Copyright is very strange. I suppose it depends on the local laws. It seems there is a statute I recall from grade school called "Finders keepers, losers weepers".
Having "lost" the episodes turns out to be lucrative for them, perhaps...... if they ever find them, they can make a killing selling them for $$$
You think a person having taped the episode, will have a high enough quality rendition for them to use? I doubt it.
Oh my goodness I'm freaking out and waving my hands like a schoolgirl right now.
But seriously, the Web of Fear is one of my favorite classic Doctor Who episodes, despite the fact that the only available version is almost entirely an audio reconstruction with still-photograph accompaniment. Notably, this episode is where the much beloved stiff-upper-lip character Lethbridge-Stewart is first introduced. He is of course instantly recognizable even as part of an audio-only soundtrack.
As much as I enjoyed the 3rd (Jon Pertwee) and 4th (Tom Baker) Doctors, like everyone else, I'd go so far as to say that many of the 1st (William Hartnell) and 2nd (Patrick Troughton) Doctors' episodes were some of the most interesting and entertaining of the entire series, just as many of the most original and memorable episodes of Star Trek and TNG came during their first and second seasons. The more I watch the older episodes of Doctor Who the more I appreciate what they accomplished, especially in the context of the fact that the series started out in 1963 in seriously grainy black and white as basically a televised live-action play. So finding more old episodes is a big thing for me. I love 'em.
I'm also one of those weirdos who thinks the most recent few seasons of the show are boot-licking, Doctor-worshiping, ultra-melodramatic, vomit-inducing crap that caused Doctor Who to go from one of my favorite shows of all time to something I cannot physically stomach watching anymore. But I digress.
Hooray for more classic Doctor Who!
Any quality is better than no quality.
By about 11.50pm GMT the news had broken and links to iTunes gone up. Amazon links a short time later and then YouTube material. I put the iTunes and Amazon pre-order links on my website (see link in my signature)
Sadly, I think the following quote from the BBC shows their contempt for us. This is from one of the papers that broke the embargo:
"Asked whether viewers might also see the recovered episodes, without having to pay Apple £1.89 per episode or £9.99 to download the complete stories, BBC Worldwide said licence-fee payers had already enjoyed a chance to watch the programmes in the late 60s"
Don't they realise that WE might have wanted to watch this stuff again at some point?
My web domain.
So, I am an american 25 year old cs student. Why should I watch this show and/or how can I convince my lady to watch it with me?
Oh, don't worry, they'll just extend the copyright term as they did for Mickey or Beatles. I mean there is still money to be made.
If I recall correctly from the previous Dr. Who story on here, the episodes fall to the public domain 50 years after their production (so 2016-2019 for these episodes). So BBC is capitalizing on the last few years when they can make money off these. Yes, I'm disappointed too but not the least bit shocked.
http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/13/10/03/2232213/first-few-doctor-who-episodes-may-fall-to-public-domain-next-year?sdsrc=popbyskid
Are they releasing the lost episodes verbatim, or is some remastering involved? And if they are remastered, does that constitute a new original copyrightable work?
"'does anyone know,what ian levine,plans to do about the recovery of missing episodes,i myself have been considering,a little overseas travel, i work overseas and i think by traveling to some or even all countrys and searching ,is maybe the best way now,of finally putting the rumours,and stories to rest,if its there lets go there,and ask politely it can do no harm,who knows i might turn up a thing or two'
'yes i see your point,i have contacted the restoration team,and offered my services,free at no cost to them ,whatsoever,but i have had no reply.you are perfectly right the beeb themselves should do this,but they dont seem to want to know,official paperwork and authorisation,from the beeb would have been great,but if not forthcoming i will go it alone with whatever ,background information i can find and see were it leads me,any help from anyone interested will be much appreciated,to all fans i will give it my best shot for dr who'"
For those not in the know, Ian Levine is a superfan, who saved many of the early episodes from destruction and found many others. The above appeared on a forum dedicated to discussing missing episodes, and is partially run by BBC staff members some of whom restore the old episodes for DVD release. Apart from Ian Levine, everyone wrote him off. The BBC didn't seem to want to know. But if the story is right, he must have managed to acquire some paperwork to show how the episodes had been cycled round the world; when one TV station had finished with them, they would be sent to another one to reduce costs of producing new episodes from the negatives.
Another thing I'd like to mention. In 1984 the BBC and Levine contacted old foreign TV markets who had bought the early years of the show to find lost episodes. Most stations didn't bother to reply; 6 did come back from Nigeria (the newly found episodes were from a relay station so its not surprising they were missed) and one from Australia. Iran said "Who in the name of Allah are you talking about?" But as Phillip Morris has shown, you need to go over there and physically sift through the paperwork and film cans. Expecting an overworked archivist to do it isn't going to work, especially if the documentation of what they have is fragmentary. But I do wonder what other "lost" TV shows were found sitting on the shelf. When Dr.Who has been found in the past, other TV has usually come back, but it is rarely, if ever reported. This makes TV historians fury with despair, as the archival side of things is so Dr.Who-centric.
Normally, the episodes should have been returned to England when they had been shown an agreed number of times, or destroyed. Happily this isn't the case. I'm not too surprised that they were overlooked. My dad worked in Nigeria from about 1968-72 and I was born there. He says they are slovenly and corrupt. That's not being racist, that is what they are like over there, from his personal experience (like one local member of the Lagos glitterati who paid off the police to stop criminal proceedings after he nearly killed my mum in a speedboat accident). And yes my dad does recall Dr.Who being shown in Nigeria!
My web domain.
(Please read the following in CAPITALS)
Permit me to inform you of my desire of going into business relationship with you. I have the believe you are a reputable and responsible and trustworthy person I can do business with from the little information so far I gathered about you during my search for a partner and by matter of trust I must not hesitate to confide in you for this simple and sincere business.
I am Stella Morris 19 years of age the only daughter of late Mr Phillip Morris whom was killed by the daleks that attacked our country Nigeria and took over our town. I ran to Lagos the economical capital of nigeria from were I am contacting you. Before the death of my father he told me that he has a sum of DWE 9.000,000 (Nine point one million Doctor Who Episodes) kept in a private cloud here in nigeria in my name as the next of kin,
Dear, in the capacity of the next of kin and with all the tapes in my hand now, I am contacting you with due sence of gallifreyanity that you will give it a sympathetic and mutual consideration.
I am honourably seeking your assistance in the following ways.
(1)To serve as the guardian of this drama and to come assist me visit the television company here to retrive the consignment.
(2)To make arrangement for me to come over to your country by tardis to further my education and to secure a residential permit for me in your country.
(3)To provide good viewing plans for the tapes and to manage the tapes for 5 years, during the viewing period,only our profit will be shared annually 70% for me the iTunes account holder while 30% will be for you the manager annually.
Moreover, I am willing to offer you 11 % of the total tapes (1 (one) episode) as compensation for your effort /input after the successful transfer of this video to your nominated iTunes account overseas, before the viewing starts.
Anticipating hearing from you immediately.
Thanks, and would you like a jelly baby?
Best Regards.
Stella Morris
if they add something to it then yes.
The broadcasted version(or rather copy of the broadcasting) is the one that goes out of copyright.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Is it more moral to make the public (license payers) pay more in order to give these episode away free, or is it better to draw more of their revenue from rich fans who will buy these old episodes? It's not like BBC lawyers are launching lawsuits against downloaders anyway.
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>You think a person having taped the episode, will have a high enough quality rendition for them to use? I doubt it.
They've done a lot of work on previous DVD releases repairing and restoring from multiple sources. One series was reconstructed using a B&W film copy for the detail with the colour from a betamax home recording. End result was pretty good.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
They were found by a 3rd party commercial firm who specialise in finding lost footage. The BBC would have had to pay them then cover the cost of restoration/remastering etc.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the BBC is selling them. Their profits, believe or not, go right back in to the BBC! Why don't we just start giving away DVD's of the Top Gear while we are at too?
Finally, we know what is Nigeria supposed to be good for. Now I know where to store my collection of old books that nobody is interested in anymore until someone starts being interested in it again.
Ezekiel 23:20
The biggest problem I have is with them putting them on iTunes store first.. The episodes were paid with public money so there shouldn't be an exclusive deal with one provider.. The episodes should even be available for free at least through the BBC iPlayer/website..
You're confusing the BBC with BBC Worldwide - the latter is the commercial arm of the BBC, which means if they want to sell DVDs, they can sell DVDs. Yes, the profits do go into the BBC itself, but if that keeps the licence fee down, then I'm all for it.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
I think, by the end of the day, they WILL be available on bit torrent. So I wouldn't worry.
The BBC has also been recovering color information from the dot crawl that was recorded on the B&W telecines they had of many episodes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_recovery
I don't care much for Dr Who, but this is another reason to oppose DRM and be cautious about streaming. If the producers can't be trusted to keep a copy of their works, it's up to the audience to do the archiving. Some works may not be considered popular or good, but may later have a huge cult (or mainstream, in this case) following
Unless the legal owners (the BBC) gave permission for limited distribution i.e. back to themselves. Sharing is only illegal if you don't have the original owner's permission.
I'm not 100% sure of how it works in Britain, but I think the way it works is that there is a tax/fee on recording media that then gets passed to an organization that dishes out the money to copyright holders based on a measure of popularity. If you bought a blank VHS tape you have already payed for the right to make copies of any video content that you have obtained legally. The terms of use for those copies are pretty strict, but they are legal.
We don't have a special tax on recording media in the UK, at all.
Until very recently (2012), it was technically illegal to make copies of anything you owned without the copyright owner's permission, though AFAIK no one was ever sued for it. Now you can. Unfortunately, you still are not allowed to break security measures, so ripping a DVD to video is still illegal. I think you can make straight copies, since you do not need to circumvent the security to do this. Most people in the UK thought making backups was not illegal, even prior to the new law.
The Wikipedia page on ripping is out of date and therefore wrong, though it is still illegal to rip DVDs because of CSS, it is not illegal to rip music from CDs. This page and this page have decent explanations.
The new BSG was probably the single best sci-fi series I've watched in the last couple decades. But wow ... what an *awful* way to close it out!