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Huawei Using NSA Scandal To Turn Tables On Accusations of Spying
Nerval's Lobster writes "Huawei Technologies, the Chinese telecom giant banned from selling to U.S. government agencies due to its alleged ties to Chinese intelligence services, is trying to turn the tables on its accusers by offering itself as a safe haven for customers concerned that the NSA has compromised their own IT vendors. 'We have never been asked to provide access to our technology, or provide any data or information on any citizen or organization to any Government, or their agencies,' Huawei Deputy Chairman Ken Hu said in the introduction to a 52-page white paper on cybersecurity published Oct. 18. Huawei was banned from selling to U.S. government entities and faced barriers to civilian sales following a 2012 report from the U.S. House of Representatives that concluded Huawei's management had not been forthcoming enough to convince committee members to disregard charges it had given Chinese intelligence services backdoors into its secure systems and allowed Chinese intelligence agents to pose as Huawei employees. But the company promises to create test centers where governments and customers can test its products and inspect its services as part of an 'open, transparent and sincere' approach to questions about its alleged ties, according to a statement in the white paper from Huawei CEO Ren Zhengfei. Can Huawei actually gain more customers by playing off the Snowden scandal?"
The bigger a nationally sponsored corporation becomes, the more obviously it becomes an asset. It's like choosing between corrupt police and the mob.
Just because the NSA spies doesn't prove Huawei doesn't. This line of reasoning is guaranteed to fool a few morons and nobody else.
We just comply
Yes, i'm suuuuuure a company with ties to the Chinese government will provide us all with a safe haven from government spying.
Spy Vs. Spy only it's not funny and it's real.
Imagine you had told someone 25 years ago that China offers you a safe haven from being spied on by the US and possible repercussions because of it...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It is. The Chinese government isn't very interested in meddling in the internal affairs of other nations as long as they can do buisiness with them. The US government tries to force their sponsors opinion about artificial scarcity (aka "intellectual property") on the whole planet, and would prosecute me when I download things the US companies would not want me to.
As for respect for human rights, both governments are comparable bad. Both countries have high numbers of executions and torture prisoners one way or another. At least the Chinese don't try to invade countries throughout the world, they were content with Tibet.
There was a Snowden brief a short while ago that showed that one of the major switch vendors had given NSA a direct backdoor into their products. One of the people covering that story said something like, "I can't tell you that it's Cisco, but it's Cisco". The real problem with this situation is that we really don't know which of these things is true.
Back when the USG banned the use of Huawei products, most people assumed that it meant that there was spying functionality in it that had been discovered. However, in light of Bull Run, it's definitely worth asking if what might have happened is that they refused to install spying technology and the USG report was meant as a way to discredit the company and prevent its market penetration.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
they did not include the US Govt approved NSA backdoor in their products
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
I'm an I.T. manager for a non-western company that has non-western defense contracts, one of those sort of conglomerates that does every activity under the sun. I doubt their ploy will actually work, we don't trust the US or the Chinese. It's a matter of "pick your poison". Still, anyone foolish enough to buy Huawei (Their firmware universally sucks, from modems to enterprise/service-level network and backhaul equipment) might be foolish enough to believe they're safer. In reality though, you're more at risk from the security exploits from Huawei's lazy half-assed programmers. I fear their coders more than any possible shadowy relationships.
Dear Huawei chairman,
open source all of your drivers and firmware, then we'll be forced to agree that your equipment is safe for use.
Huawei is already getting a lot more business inside China itself. Mostly, they're getting ex-Cisco customers, but Juniper is worried as well.
Upfront, i do trust neither. But the articles text i think is so... typical.
- forthcoming enough to convince committee members to disregard charges it had given Chinese intelligence services
Well... for that, concrete charges would be necessary. Otheriwse its like proving that something we dont really know doesnt exist. Show a malfunction, it can be fixed. If a user says SOMETHING doesnt work, and he cant tell us what, we cant help him. And if you dont have that, what made you think of it in the first place?
Request to committee: be forthcoming to convince us to diregard charges that US networking companies have given US intelligence services access to traffic
- playing off the Snowden scandal
Its not a Snowden scandal. Its an NSA / GCHQ scandal.
Telling the truth about the US is seen as trolling by the plebs :) you should know that in order to keep good kharma you have to wave the flag and advocate Linux :)
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Dunno why this was labelled troll. If I had mod points I would mod up rather than down. I guess the mods are just not feeling terribly objective today.
Of course they can. In fact, I suspect they already have.
One of the Cisco et al. selling points was "you can trust us with your data, can you trust Huawei ?" Now that is gone. Loosing a selling point like that, in a competitive market, means that sales will go to the companies it was directed against.
IBM's hardware revenue from China collapsed 40% in the 3rd quarter.
Why does this comment get modded as a troll?
Delta-Mike November Bravo Tango
Lol. Selling my Huawei U8100 smartphone (Wind Mobile). No really. Anybody want it? It's in good shape! $30 in the GTA. I know you all love Android 2.1 and 3G data speeds. Heck, I've actually managed a positive score playing Counter-Strike 1.6 from my PC over 3G service, wireless tether, and server pings of 110ms! It's a beast! It's more powerful than a Pentium 2! Runs 16 bit emulators passably well! Maybe it spies on you, who the heck cares? We all know you only use it as a toy or a 2.1 test bed anyways. Let Chinese intelligence watch in awe as you play the Final Fantasy 1&2 remake for the Gameboy Advance! On turbo speed! Huzzah! Take that, Garland!
At least the Chinese don't try to invade countries throughout the world, they were content with Tibet.
Give 'em time. Wars are expensive, so they've been developing their economy. They've been pretty belligerent about various islands, big and small.
This "terrorist watchlist" is awful comfy, thanks NSA.
But seriously, by typing that I likely have been put on some watchlist now because obviously anyone that supports China is a spy, terrorist, murder or dictator-in-the-making. Banned from USA, on instant-arrest watchlist at every airport, etc.
You used to be cool USA. I actually used to respect NSA. Not now. There is doing things "illegally" within reason, then there is just straight-up abusive levels of illegality that they are presently doing.
Now that China are finally growing up, I actually respect them far more.
If only they got that whole censorship nonsense away. Isolationism is never a good thing.
China would benefit hugely by opening up more since they are a huge influence in many markets.
USA still seems to be stuck in the 60-70s at the government level.
Not that that is any better than the UK, they are still stuck in the dark ages, and they just discovered a time travellers computers.
God damn the IT in government is embarrassing for the most part. The sad thing is my friend couldn't get a job for years when he specifically could have fixed the stupid crap they had been doing with networking, AND they were "punishing" him for not finding a job through that terrible DWP system (which I suffer from as well due to illness, obviously everyone that is ill and isn't drooling from the mouth and have FIVE legs missing is a total lying junky that just wants free money)
Now he has a great job in a company that manages many varied clients and I've even done a bit of work for them here and there now.
You shouldn't be asking "Can Huawei actually gain more customers by playing off the Snowden scandal?", but rather if American vendors can keep their customers in light of the NSA scandal.
Signature intentionally left blank.
wow. Just wow.
You HAVE to live in either America or Europe. You obviously have no knowledge about Asia.
Why do you think that vietnam is cuddlying up with USA these days? Why do you think that EVERY ASIAN NATION except China, North Korea, and sometimes Russia wants USA in on meetings for those areas?
What do they know that an ignorant person like you does not know?
Perhaps they know that China has invaded ALL of asia over and over. Perhaps they know that China threatens just about all of them NOW, and says that they want control of areas that was not theirs in a minimum of 100 years and in some cases, over a 1000.
Perhaps they are watching China put DIVERSIONARY dams on the headwaters that go to south east asia, as well as lower asia (i.e. India).
Perhaps it is the economic warfare that is being conducted while they manipulate their money against the other nations.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
oh, one last thing. If the Chinese gov is so wonderful for downloads, then you should go ahead and copy Chinese made movies to DVD and try selling them in China. I am sure that you will have a BLAST with your last vision.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
telling the truth about USA? Give me a break. I wish that I had NOT posted on this and instead had used my mod points on this story. I would have modded him down further. He is a PURE troll.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
wow. Just wow.
You HAVE to live in either America or Europe. You obviously have no knowledge about Asia.
Why do you think that vietnam is cuddlying up with USA these days? Why do you think that EVERY ASIAN NATION except China, North Korea, and sometimes Russia wants USA in on meetings for those areas?
What do they know that an ignorant person like you does not know?
Interesting.
I've lived in Asia for 15 years, I'd really like to read more of your fiction stories.
Because, in all honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Am I living in the right Asia? Or do I need to live in one located inside your imagination?
Because, in all honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about.
HTH HAND
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do and a good opportunity for them.
Perhaps the reason for all the congressional/government banning of Huawei equipment was really not because there was any proof of Chinese government spying, but because there was no way for the NSA to get THEIR backdoors into Huawei equipment. The NSA could not allow US government and telecommunications companies to begin using equipment they could not hack.
Troll? If you are offended by the fact that the population of other western countries starts to see the US as enemy rather than ally, then you whould thank the actions of your government for that. We thank your grandparents for kicking the Germans out in WW2 and your parents for keeping the Russians out during the cold war but that doesn't mean you can do anything you like.
There is little to no effective difference between an intentional backdoor and a backdoor created by incompetence and shoddy workmanship. Huawei has code quality problems it still needs to work thru.
I have no doubt as the company matures it is and will do much better.
Because a sizeable fraction of the Slashdot audience is American and many of them are not very objective when it comes to their country.
Because a sizeable fraction of the Slashdot audience is American and many of them are not very objective when it comes to their country.
Ummm... Objective, is that something edible?
I download them for personal (and family) use, I don't sell them. Certainly not in China, where I don't live. That's OK with the Chineze, they don't care, and although it is even legal where I live the (The Netherlands) US is still pushing my country to change those laws. I downloaded even some Chineze films (although they were spoken in English, my Chineze is not that good).
I guess Huawei will start marketing the advantage of their "Water Gap".
"Our jack-booted thugs are water-gaped from your USA facility, while the same cannot be said of our competitors."
Place nail here >+
Why do you think that vietnam is cuddlying up with USA these days? Why do you think that EVERY ASIAN NATION except China, North Korea, and sometimes Russia wants USA in on meetings for those areas?
What do they know that an ignorant person like you does not know?
Hmmm... "If we don't play nice with the USA, if we don't let them station troops in our country, they will label us an axis of evil and try to invade us."
Perhaps they know that China has invaded ALL of asia over and over.
Hahahahaha.... I'm sure the Philippines, Indonesia, Russia, Thailand, Malaysia etc. can tell you all about the Chinese invasion that never happened. I'll tell you something you don't know. China did invade Japan a few times. The last time it happened, China was controlled by the Mongols who were Genghis Khan's direct descendants. Unless "ALL of Asia" means "Tibet, India, and Vietnam". In that case I'm not living in Asia. I must be living in Europe or something.
And FWIW, the country that could have a legitimate claim to having invaded ALL of Asia in recent history, is Japan. They were the Nazi equivalent in Asia in WWII. Yet despite having a history of invading almost every country that borders the Pacific Ocean, they're a "nice" country because they became USA's lapdog after their military was neutered in WWII. Truth never really matters with the US propaganda machine.
Don't quote me on this.
Where are you from that had the US kick out the Germans? I am European so I remember that the British and the Russians did far more and that the Americans turned up late as usual with the beer and pizza. If you had actually spoken to people who fought you would have heard them tell you the the yanks were a liability as they were green. They ran from the fight and did not defend their allies. The main thing that they were good at was taking credit for what everyone else had done. They were a minority at Normandy but they took the majority of the credit as usual.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
He's probably alluding to China's 3 or so invasions of sovereign nations in the past 113 years, and everything going back to 3000 years ago when some Chinese guy moved his garden border 10 metres in to Mongolian land because the neighbour refused to take steps that'd prevent his tree from leaving leaves in the Chinese guy's pool.
What's shocking is the hundreds of years of tranquility Asia would have enjoyed if not for China.
OK, let's look at the list of Chinese invasions in the past century.
1910 invasion of Tibet by China
1950 - 1951 invasion of Tibet by China
Tibet
1962 invasion of India by China
Border conflict with India
1974 invasion of Paracel Islands by China
Skirmish with Vietnam.
1979 invasion of Northern Vietnam by China
Vietnam
1988 invasion of Spratly Islands by China
Skirmish with Vietnam
So, Tibet, India and Vietnam. The latter two are mostly border conflicts. The 1979 war with Vietnam resulted in China withdrawing voluntarily. Let's look again at the OP's "trollish" statement:
At least the Chinese don't try to invade countries throughout the world, they were content with Tibet
And the comment saying China has invaded "ALL of asia" is now ranked +4 Interesting? Let's look at what invading "ALL of asia" is like:
1944 invasion of East Asia by Japan
1943 invasion of Gilberts & Marshall Islands by Japan
1943 invasion of Kolombangara in the Solomon Islands by Japan
1942 invasion of Alaska by Japan
1942 invasion of Indonesia by Japan
1942 invasion of New Guinea, Dutch New Guinea and Singapore by Japan
1942 invasion of Solomon Islands by Japan
1941 invasion of Netherlands East Indies, Guam and Borneo by Japan
1941 invasion of Wake Island, Hong Kong and Philippines by Japan
1941 invasion of Malaya and Thailand by Japan
1941 invasion of Southern French Indochina by Japan
1941 invasion of Southern Vietnam by Japan
1939 invasion of French and Vietnamese-held Spratly Islands by Japan
1939 invasion of French and Vietnamese-held Paracel Islands by Japan
1938 invasion of the Soviet Union by Japan
1937 invasion of China by Japan
1931 invasion of Chinese Manchuria by Japan
1914 invasion of Caroline Islands and Marshall Islands by Japan
1914 invasion of German Tsingtao in China by Japan and the United Kingdom
1914 invasion of German Caroline Islands, Mariana Islands and Marshall Islands by Japan
1910 invasion of Korea by Japan
1904 invasion of Russia by Japan
I'm not sure which alternative universes you guys are living in.
Don't quote me on this.
I would really like to know which state of the US you are from since you have reached a level of stupidity I haven't seen in a while.
Definition of Chutzpah
Japan. They were the Nazi equivalent in Asia in WWII. Yet despite having a history of invading almost every country that borders the Pacific Ocean, they're a "nice" country because they became USA's lapdog after their military was neutered in WWII.
Not like the friendly Chinese government who were the Asian equivalent of Stalinist Russia. The US went there in WW2 , neutered Japan and fenced out China. All-in-all, a positive for the region for 40, 50, 60 maybe even 70 years. China is breaking down the fence and Japan has gotten self-discipline in the modern world. Maybe the USA will be good for the region another 20 years, maybe it will nuke it all. No one knows. But they wont he war and could have nuked everyone over there if they wanted to. They didn't. Cut them some slack. Trust *(but verify).
To be clear, when Americans bash the Chinese, we are bashing the Chinese who run the top positions in government. We love your food and kung fu movies and numerous other things that aren't as sound-bitable.
The good behavior of Chinese government, as perceived by European Slashdotters for instance, is more a reflection of the current limits of China's geopolitical reach. If you were to ask people in Southeast Asia which country meddles more in their nation's affairs, China may very well edge out the USA. This is reflected by the enthusiasm in welcoming the US into ASEAN dialogue by China's neighbors. In fact, I'm quite sure if the question were posed to Filipinos, Singaporeans, Burmese, etc, you would find an answer that is just the opposite of johanw's.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
The American Slashdotters actually seem to me more objective than their European counterparts. If you would look at the history of political discussion on this site, self-criticism is far far more likely to come from an American than from a European. You will also find that whataboutism is heavily relied upon in comments to articles about non-US countries, especially concerning Europe, whereas for stories about the US that sort of excuse-making is hardly ever seen. It leaves the sense that Americans actually care, whereas Europeans are more fond of judging and deflecting.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Don't forget to search that page for Han, Sui, Ming, Qin, and any other dynasty from before 1911
OTOH, the US paid no attention to the Geneva convention. The Vietnam War need never have happened. That would probably have prevented the Pot Pol horror. (I know, it's a different country. but violence tends to spread.)
Still, it's true. You need to be more afraid of your neighbors than of someone who lives a hundred miles away. And it's been awhile since the US has invaded either Mexico or Canada. But I'm sure they both remember it unhappily, even though in the US it's mainly forgotten.
Unfortunately, there are many indications that the current social unrest in the US is going to be getting worse for awhile. This may remain internal, but governments tend to try to divert internal unrest by fomenting external conflicts. I don't know where China stands on this. Are the powerful elites getting more powerful? Is the middle class rising or shrinking? FWIW, I expect the first really clear warning sign to be a series of coupes. The leading edge is the concentration of power and wealth into fewer and fewer hands. But remember, too, that the Roman Empire lasted for quite awhile with new Emperors being killed off within a few years. So don't expect rapid collapse, just that things will be getting less and less plesant as things get weaker and weaker, until finally the pieces at the edge start leaving. (Unless someone gets impatient and starts a war. Given the insanity at the top that tends to pervade during such periods that could lead to a sterilized planet.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I don't get these fucktards, of all the things they can smear China with they pick the one thing the US has been doing for centuries.
Either they're brain damaged or they are one of those alphabet soup agency employee earning a paycheck while playing dumb.
Maybe the US banned their products because it's one of the few tech companies they couldn't get backdoors into. It works against the US interest to have hardware that they can't access out in the wild.
First off, I do not agree with my nation pushing the BS copyright laws. We, and others, are making a total mess of things.
Secondly, the Chinese gov. will try you and then shoot you for selling Chinese copyrighted items in China. What they do not care about is when OTHER's copyrighted material is sold. Just like they allow bath salts and other illegal drugs to be exported from China, they will execute you (i.e. shoot you), if you are caught selling it there.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Here is a clue Jonaw. When we told Germany and Sweden about multiple terrorists threats, how do you think that we got it? ALL of the European govs. know. Every last one knows. They also know that they did not have the capability to do this (or want to devote the money to it either).
Now, you may not like hearing this, but your gov, as well as the rest, spy on each others. The FVEY (5 eye) esp. spy on each other. We know it. Why do we allow it? Because the group that does for each of the nations, are APOLITICAL. NSA is VERY apolitical. Now, if I were to find out that the FBI, ran by the DOJ, was doing this, I would be terrified. And I would say, that you should be too.
However, I know that each of the agencies involved are normally above this BS. Of course, the recent BS is shocking not because of the spying outside of the nation, but the abuse by individuals.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The total number of troops landed on D-Day was around 130,000[19]-156,000[20] roughly half American and the other from the Commonwealth Realms.
We came in late, but provided large support prior to our being brought in (including sending massive supplies to you and guarding them ourselves; we also sent in large amount of private fighters).
But, your statement reminds me of a saying: 'Once a liar, always a liar'.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"'We have never been asked to provide access to our technology, " --just means that access happened without them being asked, of course! Duh, that should be obvious when the relevant Government is Authoritarian rather then democratic.
'Once a liar, always a liar'.
Lovely quote for someone defending the idea of US help. The US sold supplies to both sides until Germany declared war on the US and even after that the US continued to supply Germany through 3rd parties. Britain on the other hand did not charge for the help that it gave to its allies. The US, as always, saw the war as a way to get rich. That is very different from the picture painted by people like GW who spoke about the US (he said 'America' but Canada did offer genuine help) saving Europe. Without the US, the Germans had still lost. The US servicemen did do a lot and to them we are grateful but the politicians who steal credit for things that they do not deserve are scum.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
just open source firmware and software
Go well
Like I said, once a liar, always a liar.
The fact is, that the US gov. allowed mail(in fact, continued to push it through most of the war), but stopped all other supplies once UK declared the blockaide. Now, there were a NUMBER of Americans of German, Italian, and even French descent, that supported Hitler. However, Our gov. did NOT.
and I note the fact that German, Italian, AND UK businesses were busy trading with Sadaam and that the evidence came forward once we invaded him (yeah, yeah, we had no business doing that, but, by the same token, it was obvious afterwards that european business had kept him very comfortable).
And as to W, yeah, the guy was a colossal idiot. I did not vote for him. I considered him along the lines of Nixon, reagan, vitter, Craig, Delay, etc. and other criminals. Heck, the idiot had a supposed history degree and did not have a grasp of WWII, let alone simple American history.
BUT just because W was an idiot (and I wish that other western nations would pick him up and try him), it does not mean that you are even close to the truth in either of your 2 postings.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.