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Automakers Struggle With Pairing Smartphones To Car Infotainment Systems
Lucas123 writes "As Toyota owners have often found out the hard way, they cannot use Bluetooth to pair an iPhone to their car's Entune infotainment system in order to use mobile apps. Drivers can set up their iPhones as a WiFi hotspots, but there's a fee for that. Part of the problem is that Toyota bundles all of the available Internet apps — such as Bing, iHeartRadio, MovieTickets.com, OpenTable, Pandora and other data services such as local fuel prices, traffic and weather information — on the infotainment system so it can track how they're being used. The company suggests drivers simply plug their phones into the car's USB port. Toyota's not alone in its wireless dilemma. Part of the problem is automakers can't keep up with mobile app software upgrades, so they use proprietary interfaces. But that may soon be changing. Toyota said its next model year will include Bluetooth pairing, but it still doesn't solve the longer term problem of how to upgrade infotainment systems without waiting the two to four years that new car models typically take to roll off the lines. Some automakers, like Audi, are moving to modular infotainment systems that allow chipsets to be replaced on the fly."
Allow software update of the system through USB.
Download the latest version from the Toyota website, put it on a usb key, plug in the car, select Software update in the contextual menu, and boom, you're done.
Or have it all running directly off an SD card which can be replaced/upgraded if it ever fails instead of built-in storage that can fail over time and is harder to change.
Carputers have been around for ages, lots of enthusiasts buy parts that would fit a micro-pc, install it in the trunk and the screen in the dash. It's not terribly hard and you retain all windows/mac/linux functionality. No more proprietary software, just use it like you would want to. I think windows 8 is meant for this, while I haven't tried it out for myself, I think the dash thingy that windows 8 comes with might be really useful in this case. Either way, why spend a fortune on Toyota's hardware when you can just build your own? It's just a level above building your own PC rig. However, insurance companies might differ on that opinion.
lets fiddle with apps while driving 70 mph! what could possibly go wrong?
The all new 2014 model SE, state of the art, uses all new technology! Sporting an impressive RHEL5 operating system, you just have to drive it.
How about simply not making it easier for people to take their eyes off the road while they're supposed to be driving? The last thing we need to add to vehicles is the ability to use apps while driving.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
The fact that auto makers consider 'bing' to be an internet app says much about the problems their having.
relatives and loved ones of road slaughter struggle while trying to figure out why car manufacturers purposely distract drivers with apps is moral and legal.
The fact that a car infotainment system is considered desirable and maybe even mandatory by the general populace is a sure sign of intellectual decline. The social sneers directed at those without a smartphone (I will not be assimilated) is an even greater bit of evidence for my case that technology that was meant to do great things is being abused and frittered away on pointless garbage that makes us too dependent on the status quo.
Car manufacturers charge an ungodly amount of money for their integrated audio-and-GPS systems. People have been trying to listen to their own music for ages. I had tape adapters for my portable CD player so I could listen to better-quality music in the car since the early 90s, but line-in inputs only became standard equipment in about the last five years.
Ten years from now, I expect this will be a solved problem, but right now it's like personal computers ca. 1980 - everyone has a different solution, each has its own merits and faults, and we're just going to have to wait until standardization occurs.
The automakers are idiots. I suggest Android as the obvious answer. It's the most used smartphone and mobile operating system in the world.
Automakers should work harder on making their cars better, and provide open solutions for infotainment.
It likes like Toyota are being super-sensitive about assigning blame but the evidence in the article seems to indicate this is actually a fault in the iPhone, not the car system. Given Apple has an ongoing distain for open standards why are Toyota so eager not to say as much?
I'm a tech at a Chrysler dealership, and those uConnect systems are infuriating. We have nothing but problems with any Apple device (Except the older iPods that are physically connected via USB), and while Android devices are more compatible, there are often some features that just refuse to operate. Patching the software is generally easy, usually via USB stick with a bootloader and updated software, but it's perplexing as to why we can't update them with our factory scan tool like we do with all the other modules on the vehicle.
My girlfriend has a new Prius C. She tried to convince her father not to get the one w/ the in-dash computer but they got it anyways, & here's just a little sample of what you get: You can't seek FM channels backwards. That's right. You passed your channel by accident? You better have bookmarked it because you're gonna have to do it all over again. You can't play FLAC files if you use your phone as a USB mass storage device so get ready to haul around an auxilliary audio cable. Bluetooth playback works but there's no real means to browse on the computer-- you'll have to do song selection on your phone & better hope you don't have to rewind. Oh yeah, you can't rewind. The maps application is supposedly able to pull Google Maps maps/traffic/fuel price data through your phone but who knows how long it'll be API compatible. You're also stuck w/ bluetooth bandwidth as (I've tested) internet tethering over USB doesn't work. I say tear it out & drop in an Android 4.x anything (tablet, phablet, proper in-dash computer, even a glorified phone mount), but, you know, resale value & all.
I keep cars 15 years. Modern cars are very good.
You're a sucker if you're perpetually buying new cars. Maintain them properly and save some money.
There was a standard solution for decades, and the stupid manufacturers integrate everything.
It's almost new car time .. 3D printing a replacement dash and integrating a AppRadio or other alternative may be the only possibility in a lot of cases.
The real pain comes when they integrate things you need, like maintenance calculators and schedules.. car makers shouldn't get involved with consumer electronics.
My wife drives a 1998 Subaru Forester to school every day. Do you still use .. or even own.. any electronics from 1998?
..don't panic
It's only a problem with Apple devices. Both Android and Windows devices are generic bluetooth. My Windows Phone (HTX 8X) works wonderfully with my VW, which connects via bluetooth for the phone part, and bluetooth audio for the music part. Works seamlessly. iPhones... not so much. As long as people use devices that conform to generic bluetooth standards, it's not a problem.
The way car audio is, not even the dopeheads will try to rip out radios anymore. In a way, this is a lot like the market for phones circa 2006, where there was little improvement other than perhaps a slightly thinner RAZR variant or perhaps a new feature here and there.
A company like Apple, Microsoft or Google could easily announce a product and sweep all the competition aside. If they made a 1 DIN audio head that could handle BT audio (and I mean handle it, not "support" it half-assed), have a good navigation system, and perhaps a 3G/4G antenna built in to autodownload maps via a Whispernet-like network, run some apps, and provide the usual amenities (XM radio, local FM radio, local AM radio, a CD player, USB connection, maybe even a Wi-Fi network using the above mentioned 3G/4G antenna with a subscription.
An audio head made by one of the above companies would utterly change the car audio industry, just like iPhones and Android devices swept out the dumbphones as mainstream devices in just a couple years. In the past one bought an Alpine for the name. Now, most OEM car audio systems are decent enough for most people. So, with the "good enough" reached, there isn't much innovation in this market segment.
Is that a problem with the iPhone or is it the US Carriers being greedy?
I really like where QNX is heading.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Then I couldn't read the bullshit captcha, and failed to be human. Then I lost everything I typed. Now the world can not benefit from all thatI shared.
Since autos last decades but computers are junk in a few years, do as with audio components and have a standard form-factor to facilitate swaps.
Not likely given automaker desire for vendor lock.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why is this hard? I didn't even think about this while buying my latest car. Glad I lucked out, I guess.
Though from a security standpoint it sucks, Elantras apparently have a hardcoded pairing code of '0000'... :p
All they need is a phone/tablet dock. Paying extra for an infotainment system is dumb. All I need is power and audio connections for my phone/tablet. All the car need provide is speakers and microphone and maybe some steering wheel buttons which can control some phone functions.
lets fiddle with apps while driving 70 mph! what could possibly go wrong?
Those same applications, might provide life saving guides in event of an accident, or warn of a collision ahead, preventing further loss of life. disable or take over controls of car in event of the driver being intoxicated, drugged, asleep, heart attack. Limit car to preferred drivers. Or even the boring things we are used to like sat nav, or internet radio
Your right people could facebook or play angry birds at 70mph...they can already do that on their phone, or well there could be useful apps geared towards, boring *car* things that just happen to be smart.
fucking around with your "smartphone" while driving is a pretty DUMB idea.
I would kill for a remote display protocol on my car's GPS unit that would just show the display of the phone and accept touch input... My phone already has a fantastic UI, tons of great apps (many of which are perfectly applicable to driving situations), built-in GPS, touch based input, etc.
But even though I have excellent Bluetooth support, I still cannot "thumbs down" a song on Pandora without pulling my phone out of my pocket. I can't "skip back 30 seconds" on Audible. I can't use my phone's map app (100x better than the car's GPS app, and always up to date), on the larger and more visible car GPS screen.
Just let me see & interact with my phone screen, but on my car's screen. Is that so hard??? :(
Ford Sync is based on Microsoft software, as my F-150 reminds me on the console.
Please, you can buy a bluetooth linking stereo aftermarket style with led video and hard drive for less than 200$
Car companies these days do not manufacture their stereos. They have a contract parts company do it for a price. Their suppliers did not get the requirement for the bluetooth link because the Project manager calculated some benefit or got drunk and didn't fully review the requirements they needed in the stereo for customers to purchase the vehicle. Its too late in the model year to care about this because replacement of the existing set of stereos for ones that will be designed with this option outweigh the sales benefits.
linux of android. fixed. ota updates, or make it cyanogen, aokp, ubuntu compatible. work with a software company or organization. easy solution. give a million bucks to cannonical to make a car interface for ubuntu for phones for cars. unload all responsibility and make it better. frankly i dont trust the creator of the cavalier to write good software :) or the camry or whatever.
Forget about adding complex UI software to a car, give me MirrorLink and some standard car APIs over that link, or ssomethin. You car manufacturers don't know about user and internet facing better
Am i the only one that doesn't want all this electronic computer crap in my CAR?
Cars last decades. Electronics and computer related stuff doesn't
Is this referring to asshole carriers that charge extra to not disable the "feature" of network routing software in a device that you own?
That's like your ISP charging you extra to use a router. Rent-seeking horseshit.
While I agree that it is ripe for the changing, I disagree on how easy it would be.
Owning a car with such a wonder radio (that seems to fall short), and attempting to go down this yellow brick road, I discovered a few things. Basically all the integration of the console with the car functions are non-standard enough to ensure that if I ever ripped out my unit, I would effectively be replacing it with another unit that might do audio much better, but would lack the integration with my steering wheel buttons, air conditioner, backup camera, car maintenance schedule, and all of those little "extras" which act together to ensure that basically my current unit is a very glorified one-off solution.
what will happen with auto drive cars last 1-2 years before they stop getting updates and soon after that can't drive on some roads / areas? End up in crash due to a software bug that is fixed in new cars out at the time?
you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years, you upgrade your car 4-5 years if you dont value your money
so yea, look into the future ball and see what android 6, or iOSX is going to have that faddy week they come out and future proof it for another 3 years past that
The problem comes when the shit starts working well enough to
distract the idiot who is irresponsible enough to use electronics
while driving.
I dare you! I DOUBLE dare you mofo!
why do you think it would change anything?
because it is not even about good enough. it is about you not going to rip out the integrated solution because it is truly integrated. now a tablet-holder that plugs into audio in(which is usually available nowadays..). that just replaces all that stuf.. that might work.
so that tech company would have to have deals in place with every large car manufacturer...... for exclusive replacement of their projected money maker(yes, car manufacturers are projecting that app payments are going to bring them money in 5-10 years).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Car infotainment, who cares?
Mirror your phones screen and touch inputs onto the dashboard via bluetooth and screw the rest. Let Google and Apple update their stuff, trying to build an entirely separate Android and chipsets and etc. for cars is useless.
My wife and I have VW's and they've offered Bluetooth for media use on both our models (Tiguan and Jetta); works great. I personally wouldn't want a full on infotainment system; pairing is just fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lf8_pxg2Q
And there's no subscription fees for using the apps. Pioneer makes some real nice decks that cost about the same as upgrading the OEM deck to the app enabled model.
I doubt there is enough market here to be bothered with. For example, Apple has sold about 15 million appleTVs so far. That number is so small that they publicly label it a 'hobby' and actively discourage any real attention on their earnings reports. How big is the after-market car audio market? Has any single unit ever sold 15 million total? A quick Google puts the total value of the car audio industry around 2 billion. Apple's revenue last year was 156 billion. They could capture the entire market and only get a 2% bump. They probably spend more on advertising than the entire car audio industry would net them.
Which is why they are puttering around with the occasional arrangement directly with auto manufacturers. But even that is likely more of a hobby than a serious investment.
I have a 2012 Scion IQ which was made in Japan and shipped to Canada. Now you would think it would have the latest phone and bluetooth function, but it does not. You can't use the USB plug in the car to recharge your Blackberry. The plug only works with an old ipod. Any you can't change the volume on an bluetooth audio stream like streaming DI through your phone to the stereo. You have to make the firmware easy to flash like tesla. :)
When a car has an... as you say... infotainment system, that would be enough reason for me *not* to buy it, even all the rest was according to my wishes. I, too, hav my standards, you know. There is already enough distraction nonsense in cars.
How many android smartphones still receive firmware updates two years after introduction? Not many, and that is a smartphone with many millions sold globally. After the one year after introduction and its successors are in production most handset manufacturers abandon their product and don't even apply security updates anymore. If your smartphone can only run gingerbread, even Google has abandoned you and won't release bug fixes or security updates.
I doubt an automaker would do any better, and an automobile has a lifetime of at least a decade. The infotainment system unlike the engine control module isn't a critical component covered by a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty, so if there's a bug there is no compelling reason for them to fix it. 5 years from now, if your smartphone won't work with it and you take it to the dealer, the dealer is simply going to tell you to buy a new car. Meanwhile whatever apps installed on your car already ceased getting any updates 2 years ago. It is a similar situation with smart TVs and DVD players except its with something you spent $25,000 dollars on.
Well, buy a new car. Planned obsolescence at work!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wow, Toyota is going to "allow" bluetooth pairing in next year's models? Welcome to 2005 Toyota! This is 2013, right?
I've had no pairing issues in my 2013 Audi with the MMI system. It works flawlessly with my Lumia over bluetooth. It even detects changes in contacts on my phone re-syncs it with the MMI system whenever the car is started. Using MMI I can also access placed and missed calls, my voice mailbox, etc. Call transfers and multi-party calls also work.
What's this "fee" for using your phone as a hotspot? Oh right... US carriers. Carry on...
Yes, it's a problem
Man I didn't think the windows ce automotive with flash-lite shit that fail of a company BSQUARE that actually did most of the dev would ever be out-failed.
But hey I can play and control my bluetooth stereo with my evo 4g LTE (android) pretty darn reliably these days and most of the problems seem to be on android's side...
And yet the 1V PP audio line input on my wife's MINI follows the same interface spec as my father's valve amplifier input he made from a magazine article in the 1950's.
Sometimes, simpler is just better. Period.
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Bundling apps which would become rapidly bitrotten is a really stupid idea. Car manufacturers should be producing bluetooth profiles and protocols which allow apps from any smart phone OS to contribute interactive information to the car display. e.g. a fuel price app could transmit some graphics (e.g. a map), audio and some buttons to the car system so the user could interact with it even though the app is running on the phone.
... put a tablet-like device in the dashboard running Android and write apps that perform the infotainment functions. They need to stop wasting time on these proprietary implementations and just start doing what most consumers are doing already - pairing bluetooth stereo and using their tablets/phones as their primary source of media and entertainment in the car.
Why don't they just update via the internet when a viable connection is available.
Like "Smart" TVs etc... so what if you can't listen to the radio for the 40 minutes it takes to download.
They could even build wifi into the cars so that when you're at home you can just connect to your home network.
And AUDI??? chipset replacement!?!! why use hardware!?!! :/
If they want a midlife update they should just include tablet/smartphone type replaceable tech in their card...
They just seem antiquated
Bought a 2012 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T in November 2011. Everything works through the car's built-in aircard. Fuel prices, navigation assistance, remote diagnostics, vehicle tracking / recovery, all built-in. Some data (weather radar) even comes through the Sirius XM receiver. I don't need to pair my Bluetooth devices unless I choose to for things like streaming music or voice calls. And when I do, they work flawlessly.
When a family member recently bought a Prius, I wanted to show her how useful things like fuel apps and Pandora can be. Then I discovered that I'd need to pair my smartphone just to demo (she doesn't have a smartphone, making the whole thing moot anyway). Then I saw I'd not only have to install Toyota's app, but sign up for a Toyota account. No thanks.
So two years ago, Hyundai -- HYUNDAI -- allowed easy Bluetooth pairing, and even made it unnecessary for data connections. Toyota plans on introducing this in the 2015 model year?
Toyota just got served by a "cheap" car maker. Good job, Hyundai.
(by the way, the car is awesome)
A2DP should be selected only if explicitly selected by the user!
Depends on whether they're Google/Tesla cars or big auto maker cars. The latter will require multi-hundred dollar yearly map upgrades (possibly set up as a subscription service). The former will just auto-update and be fine.
the screen in my new IS350C (Lexus) is almost exactly the same as my 4G iPad Mini - why are auto makers reinventing the wheel? just farm it out to Apple or Samsung! or better yet GIVE ME THE CHOICE!!! hell, if someone wants to put a frakin Surface in their LFA that should be an option!
I don't dislike the system in mine (it's reasonably nice) but why spend the R&D on something that's clearly not their core competency on a problem at least two other non-competitor companies have already solved in a way most of the world is already using?!?
Is audio pairing, and a way to stick the screen of my phone on the dashboard, or better yet some way to map the touch screen of my phone to a somewhat larger screen built into the car (bluetooth doesn't support screen connection, does it?) There are no apps in the Entune system that I don't have better versions of on my phone already, and since Entune can't talk to the car's OS for security reasons, this seems unlikely to change.
They already do-- it's called an iPad. Mount them in your dash and you're done.
Practically, the screen on a 1 DIN unit would be too tiny for navigation and not likely optimized for viewing position and angle. That's one of the reasons that these systems moved to 2 DIN units (which still aren't big enough) and ultimately ditched DIN altogether. Those motorized screens that come out of the 1 DIN units are crap, btw (they break, cover important stuff like climate control and still aren't in the right place to be easily interacted with. Touch interfaces on them are especially horrible because of the flimsy mount).
Many (most?) OEM car stereos aren't made by the car company anyway. I've had quite a few Hondas and they've all used Honda badged Alpine units (going back into the late 80s).
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Because the time-constant of product upgrades/release of electronics will ALWAYS be shorter than car upgrades/releases, you can never really solve this for more than a year's time the way car makers operate. The only solution is to stop being "coach/interior" providers and make the interiors/coachworks based on a standard interface both electronic and mechanical. This is actually how cars used to be made: Chevy used Fisher Autobody to provide the interior design. VW used Karmann and Ghia.
The fact is that carmakers are as "out of touch" with modern electronics and innovation as record companies and movie studios were. There's nothing they can really do to "adapt" other than realize there are some jobs they completely and forever will suck at. This is one of them. Let 3rd parties develop the interiors and electronics for your cars. Encourage a large after-market for replacing ALL OF IT if the customer wishes!! That's how you solve the "iPhone (and Android) interface" problem.