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Automakers Struggle With Pairing Smartphones To Car Infotainment Systems
Lucas123 writes "As Toyota owners have often found out the hard way, they cannot use Bluetooth to pair an iPhone to their car's Entune infotainment system in order to use mobile apps. Drivers can set up their iPhones as a WiFi hotspots, but there's a fee for that. Part of the problem is that Toyota bundles all of the available Internet apps — such as Bing, iHeartRadio, MovieTickets.com, OpenTable, Pandora and other data services such as local fuel prices, traffic and weather information — on the infotainment system so it can track how they're being used. The company suggests drivers simply plug their phones into the car's USB port. Toyota's not alone in its wireless dilemma. Part of the problem is automakers can't keep up with mobile app software upgrades, so they use proprietary interfaces. But that may soon be changing. Toyota said its next model year will include Bluetooth pairing, but it still doesn't solve the longer term problem of how to upgrade infotainment systems without waiting the two to four years that new car models typically take to roll off the lines. Some automakers, like Audi, are moving to modular infotainment systems that allow chipsets to be replaced on the fly."
Allow software update of the system through USB.
Download the latest version from the Toyota website, put it on a usb key, plug in the car, select Software update in the contextual menu, and boom, you're done.
Or have it all running directly off an SD card which can be replaced/upgraded if it ever fails instead of built-in storage that can fail over time and is harder to change.
The all new 2014 model SE, state of the art, uses all new technology! Sporting an impressive RHEL5 operating system, you just have to drive it.
How about simply not making it easier for people to take their eyes off the road while they're supposed to be driving? The last thing we need to add to vehicles is the ability to use apps while driving.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
I'm a tech at a Chrysler dealership, and those uConnect systems are infuriating. We have nothing but problems with any Apple device (Except the older iPods that are physically connected via USB), and while Android devices are more compatible, there are often some features that just refuse to operate. Patching the software is generally easy, usually via USB stick with a bootloader and updated software, but it's perplexing as to why we can't update them with our factory scan tool like we do with all the other modules on the vehicle.
My girlfriend has a new Prius C. She tried to convince her father not to get the one w/ the in-dash computer but they got it anyways, & here's just a little sample of what you get: You can't seek FM channels backwards. That's right. You passed your channel by accident? You better have bookmarked it because you're gonna have to do it all over again. You can't play FLAC files if you use your phone as a USB mass storage device so get ready to haul around an auxilliary audio cable. Bluetooth playback works but there's no real means to browse on the computer-- you'll have to do song selection on your phone & better hope you don't have to rewind. Oh yeah, you can't rewind. The maps application is supposedly able to pull Google Maps maps/traffic/fuel price data through your phone but who knows how long it'll be API compatible. You're also stuck w/ bluetooth bandwidth as (I've tested) internet tethering over USB doesn't work. I say tear it out & drop in an Android 4.x anything (tablet, phablet, proper in-dash computer, even a glorified phone mount), but, you know, resale value & all.
Unless customers express a strong preference for standards, nothing is going to change. The manufacturers believe that they can make a lot of money from updates and upgrades during the life of the vehicle (just look at how much updated maps for integrated GPS systems cost) and they are not going to give up that income without a strong signal from car buyers.
Car manufacturers love this income stream because it doesn't affect the price of a new car -- it may be the second owner who has to pay it.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I keep cars 15 years. Modern cars are very good.
You're a sucker if you're perpetually buying new cars. Maintain them properly and save some money.
There was a standard solution for decades, and the stupid manufacturers integrate everything.
It's almost new car time .. 3D printing a replacement dash and integrating a AppRadio or other alternative may be the only possibility in a lot of cases.
The real pain comes when they integrate things you need, like maintenance calculators and schedules.. car makers shouldn't get involved with consumer electronics.
My wife drives a 1998 Subaru Forester to school every day. Do you still use .. or even own.. any electronics from 1998?
..don't panic
It's only a problem with Apple devices. Both Android and Windows devices are generic bluetooth. My Windows Phone (HTX 8X) works wonderfully with my VW, which connects via bluetooth for the phone part, and bluetooth audio for the music part. Works seamlessly. iPhones... not so much. As long as people use devices that conform to generic bluetooth standards, it's not a problem.
The way car audio is, not even the dopeheads will try to rip out radios anymore. In a way, this is a lot like the market for phones circa 2006, where there was little improvement other than perhaps a slightly thinner RAZR variant or perhaps a new feature here and there.
A company like Apple, Microsoft or Google could easily announce a product and sweep all the competition aside. If they made a 1 DIN audio head that could handle BT audio (and I mean handle it, not "support" it half-assed), have a good navigation system, and perhaps a 3G/4G antenna built in to autodownload maps via a Whispernet-like network, run some apps, and provide the usual amenities (XM radio, local FM radio, local AM radio, a CD player, USB connection, maybe even a Wi-Fi network using the above mentioned 3G/4G antenna with a subscription.
An audio head made by one of the above companies would utterly change the car audio industry, just like iPhones and Android devices swept out the dumbphones as mainstream devices in just a couple years. In the past one bought an Alpine for the name. Now, most OEM car audio systems are decent enough for most people. So, with the "good enough" reached, there isn't much innovation in this market segment.
Is that a problem with the iPhone or is it the US Carriers being greedy?
I really like where QNX is heading.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Since autos last decades but computers are junk in a few years, do as with audio components and have a standard form-factor to facilitate swaps.
Not likely given automaker desire for vendor lock.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
All they need is a phone/tablet dock. Paying extra for an infotainment system is dumb. All I need is power and audio connections for my phone/tablet. All the car need provide is speakers and microphone and maybe some steering wheel buttons which can control some phone functions.
lets fiddle with apps while driving 70 mph! what could possibly go wrong?
Those same applications, might provide life saving guides in event of an accident, or warn of a collision ahead, preventing further loss of life. disable or take over controls of car in event of the driver being intoxicated, drugged, asleep, heart attack. Limit car to preferred drivers. Or even the boring things we are used to like sat nav, or internet radio
Your right people could facebook or play angry birds at 70mph...they can already do that on their phone, or well there could be useful apps geared towards, boring *car* things that just happen to be smart.
I would kill for a remote display protocol on my car's GPS unit that would just show the display of the phone and accept touch input... My phone already has a fantastic UI, tons of great apps (many of which are perfectly applicable to driving situations), built-in GPS, touch based input, etc.
But even though I have excellent Bluetooth support, I still cannot "thumbs down" a song on Pandora without pulling my phone out of my pocket. I can't "skip back 30 seconds" on Audible. I can't use my phone's map app (100x better than the car's GPS app, and always up to date), on the larger and more visible car GPS screen.
Just let me see & interact with my phone screen, but on my car's screen. Is that so hard??? :(
Ford Sync is based on Microsoft software, as my F-150 reminds me on the console.
linux of android. fixed. ota updates, or make it cyanogen, aokp, ubuntu compatible. work with a software company or organization. easy solution. give a million bucks to cannonical to make a car interface for ubuntu for phones for cars. unload all responsibility and make it better. frankly i dont trust the creator of the cavalier to write good software :) or the camry or whatever.
Similar to the carputer, I put together a mount for a Nexus 10 tablet in the dash of my car, and I use an AT&T MiFi Liberate for data access on the go. You just have to resist the urge to touch that beautiful 10" screen while you are in motion. I'm thrilled with the setup, and when I get to my destination, I take the tablet with me. And I threw in a couple of NFC tags for when I enter/exit the car, and it does all my typical setup as I'm putting it into the dashboard mount. I'm embarrassed to say how much I paid for the nav system integrated into my car when I bought it half a decade ago, but I'm glad I didn't buy any overpriced map update discs for it. Google maps and navigation are starting to rock the auto industry.
Forget about adding complex UI software to a car, give me MirrorLink and some standard car APIs over that link, or ssomethin. You car manufacturers don't know about user and internet facing better
Am i the only one that doesn't want all this electronic computer crap in my CAR?
Cars last decades. Electronics and computer related stuff doesn't
Is this referring to asshole carriers that charge extra to not disable the "feature" of network routing software in a device that you own?
That's like your ISP charging you extra to use a router. Rent-seeking horseshit.
While I agree that it is ripe for the changing, I disagree on how easy it would be.
Owning a car with such a wonder radio (that seems to fall short), and attempting to go down this yellow brick road, I discovered a few things. Basically all the integration of the console with the car functions are non-standard enough to ensure that if I ever ripped out my unit, I would effectively be replacing it with another unit that might do audio much better, but would lack the integration with my steering wheel buttons, air conditioner, backup camera, car maintenance schedule, and all of those little "extras" which act together to ensure that basically my current unit is a very glorified one-off solution.
what will happen with auto drive cars last 1-2 years before they stop getting updates and soon after that can't drive on some roads / areas? End up in crash due to a software bug that is fixed in new cars out at the time?
you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years, you upgrade your car 4-5 years if you dont value your money
so yea, look into the future ball and see what android 6, or iOSX is going to have that faddy week they come out and future proof it for another 3 years past that
why do you think it would change anything?
because it is not even about good enough. it is about you not going to rip out the integrated solution because it is truly integrated. now a tablet-holder that plugs into audio in(which is usually available nowadays..). that just replaces all that stuf.. that might work.
so that tech company would have to have deals in place with every large car manufacturer...... for exclusive replacement of their projected money maker(yes, car manufacturers are projecting that app payments are going to bring them money in 5-10 years).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lf8_pxg2Q
And there's no subscription fees for using the apps. Pioneer makes some real nice decks that cost about the same as upgrading the OEM deck to the app enabled model.
I doubt there is enough market here to be bothered with. For example, Apple has sold about 15 million appleTVs so far. That number is so small that they publicly label it a 'hobby' and actively discourage any real attention on their earnings reports. How big is the after-market car audio market? Has any single unit ever sold 15 million total? A quick Google puts the total value of the car audio industry around 2 billion. Apple's revenue last year was 156 billion. They could capture the entire market and only get a 2% bump. They probably spend more on advertising than the entire car audio industry would net them.
Which is why they are puttering around with the occasional arrangement directly with auto manufacturers. But even that is likely more of a hobby than a serious investment.
When a car has an... as you say... infotainment system, that would be enough reason for me *not* to buy it, even all the rest was according to my wishes. I, too, hav my standards, you know. There is already enough distraction nonsense in cars.
I wouldn't get my hopes up for that "standardization". If anything, it will ensure that you can't do jack yourself and HAVE TO buy some kind of overpriced solution because ... umm... safety. Yeah, we'll go with that reason. Safety is always a good enough reason when it comes to getting you to spend ten times of what's necessary on your car.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hello? How the fuck do you plan to get vendor lock-in down with an open platform?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, buy a new car. Planned obsolescence at work!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wow, Toyota is going to "allow" bluetooth pairing in next year's models? Welcome to 2005 Toyota! This is 2013, right?
I've had no pairing issues in my 2013 Audi with the MMI system. It works flawlessly with my Lumia over bluetooth. It even detects changes in contacts on my phone re-syncs it with the MMI system whenever the car is started. Using MMI I can also access placed and missed calls, my voice mailbox, etc. Call transfers and multi-party calls also work.
What's this "fee" for using your phone as a hotspot? Oh right... US carriers. Carry on...
And yet the 1V PP audio line input on my wife's MINI follows the same interface spec as my father's valve amplifier input he made from a magazine article in the 1950's.
Sometimes, simpler is just better. Period.
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
While what you say is true, the reality is features such as GPS or any other feature they could clamp down on for an income stream are also the easiest features to implement unofficially. It's like the smart tv, adding that 'smart' functionality is the easiest thing to do compared to things such as full hd or 3D, where you can add either dedicated hardware (media centre box) or having more powerful hardware (htpc or latop). In the case of vehicles, they are competing against phones and dedicated gps or audio players. That's why so many cars now have ipod docks or usb and aux inputs. Bluetooth starts adding more user friendly features, but most people won't really care if they have to change tracks on their own device whilst stopped at the lights.
Nothing! Unless the apple stays stuck in your SO's hooha, in which case you'd better make an emergency stop at the side of the road before all hell breaks loose.
Bundling apps which would become rapidly bitrotten is a really stupid idea. Car manufacturers should be producing bluetooth profiles and protocols which allow apps from any smart phone OS to contribute interactive information to the car display. e.g. a fuel price app could transmit some graphics (e.g. a map), audio and some buttons to the car system so the user could interact with it even though the app is running on the phone.
... put a tablet-like device in the dashboard running Android and write apps that perform the infotainment functions. They need to stop wasting time on these proprietary implementations and just start doing what most consumers are doing already - pairing bluetooth stereo and using their tablets/phones as their primary source of media and entertainment in the car.
Why don't they just update via the internet when a viable connection is available.
Like "Smart" TVs etc... so what if you can't listen to the radio for the 40 minutes it takes to download.
They could even build wifi into the cars so that when you're at home you can just connect to your home network.
And AUDI??? chipset replacement!?!! why use hardware!?!! :/
If they want a midlife update they should just include tablet/smartphone type replaceable tech in their card...
They just seem antiquated
A2DP should be selected only if explicitly selected by the user!
You do realise not all app use need be while in motion? During car-warmup, start an Audible book playing. If you have kids in carpool, there's an easy 15 minutes parked for app-ing. Got to work a little early? Goof off for a bit or catch up on news/email/etc.
In all seriousness, even while traveling, there's all sorts of things one could do with apps at red lights that would have no impact on attention while moving. I mourn all lives lost due to accidents, app-caused or not. But to prevent all of humanity from benefiting safely from changes in technology because a minority of people is irresponsible is, well, irresponsible!
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
I hope they have some signal with these GPS maps. I know a lot of people that buy a tomtom or use their smartphone because their integrated GPS maps are so outdated that it is not anymore useable and the cost of having another gadget on their windshield trump the cost of the integrated GPS update...
The vast majority of the map update goes to the map company, Navteq in our case. It's the most expensive component in the radio by far, more than the screen or OS or ruggedized HDD.
The price is so high it's a struggle to charge as close to nothing for an update CD as you can because people are already outraged at $100 just from the nav company's portion as it is.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
They already do-- it's called an iPad. Mount them in your dash and you're done.
Practically, the screen on a 1 DIN unit would be too tiny for navigation and not likely optimized for viewing position and angle. That's one of the reasons that these systems moved to 2 DIN units (which still aren't big enough) and ultimately ditched DIN altogether. Those motorized screens that come out of the 1 DIN units are crap, btw (they break, cover important stuff like climate control and still aren't in the right place to be easily interacted with. Touch interfaces on them are especially horrible because of the flimsy mount).
Many (most?) OEM car stereos aren't made by the car company anyway. I've had quite a few Hondas and they've all used Honda badged Alpine units (going back into the late 80s).
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Please explain why a map update for a OEM GPS unit costs two to three times as much as a map update when bought by an end user for a stand-alone unit?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Similar to the carputer, I put together a mount for a Nexus 10 tablet in the dash of my car, and I use an AT&T MiFi Liberate for data access on the go. You just have to resist the urge to touch that beautiful 10" screen while you are in motion.
I'm sure there is already half a dozen applications for that on Google Play.
Seriously, I dont see the need for a "carputer". I'd rather spend the extra cash on a better sound system and just have a fairly basic head unit. Keeping the AC/mirror/whatever controls seperate means that if the CD player breaks I can still use the cooling system.
I have kept an old 10" tablet in my car connected to the OBDII via Bluetooth. I just set it to log a trip and shove it into the glove box (you have to if you're on a track, no loose items in the car) but I dont really need these kind of statistics when driving normally.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
And good morning to you, too!
Well, on days I don't take my kids to school, I go through one light that's literally 3-4 minutes long and another that's 2-3. That's a lot of tweets read. Maybe a turn or two of Angry Birds.
I'm sorry if I hold up traffic at a light - I really am. I try very hard not to be *that* driver because it's not only annoying (and wasteful as you point out), but even if you make it through with me, someone else is stuck an extra light cycle (ha!) because of my tardiness. But do you know what my current numebr one distraction in the car is right now? The radio. Trying to find a station that isn't playing the same song I heard twice already today, or that's in a 3-minute commercial block, or is letting their on-air "talent" do a little improv. I'm seriously looking into a connectivity kit for my car so I can do away with local radio altogether and either play tracks from my library or stream Pandora/Shoutcast/etc.
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!