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20-Somethings Think It's OK To Text and Answer Calls In Business Meetings

RichDiesal writes "In an upcoming article in Business Communication Quarterly, researchers found that more than half of 20-somethings believe it appropriate to read texts during formal business meetings, whereas only 16% of workers 40+ believe the same thing. 34% of 20-somethings believe it appropriate to answer the phone in the middle of a meeting (i.e., not excusing yourself to answer the phone — answering and talking mid-meeting!). It is unclear if this is happening because more younger workers grew up with mobile technology, or if it's because older workers have the experience to know that answering a call in the middle of a meeting is a terrible idea. So if you're a younger worker, consider leaving your phone alone in meetings to avoid annoying your coworkers. And if you're an older worker annoyed at what you believe to be rude behavior, just remember, it's not you – it's them!"

453 comments

  1. Bring on the wearable interfaces. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Then people can answer calls/check facebook/play minesweeper during meetings without being noticed.

    1. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do 20-somethings even know what minesweeper is?

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      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    2. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This already happens in any meeting that doesn't ban laptops. Is the exact same thing to be answering emails as sending texts, assuming you at least have the new text chime turned off.

    3. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Shatrat · · Score: 1

      It's going to be hard not to notice the person staring into space and drooling.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    4. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      And that is any different from how things used to be?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    5. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, it ruined the childhood for some of us.

    6. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ok, I am a 30 something year old so I don't fit into either demographics...

      However most of the time meetings are an out of date idea's. They historically worked because we didn't have a communication infrastructure that we do today. Conference phones where limited in the number of people on the line, issues with the person not being close enough to the phone to be heard and a slew of other communication problems, and before that it was very hard to get a bunch of people work on an idea, in a timely manner.

      But really for most meetings, the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved unless there is something important to them. It would be much easier to chat via a message system, you can see the stuff go across your screen, while you work on something else, until something important comes up you can can then review what went on and come up with an appropriate answer.

      the 20 somethings who grew up with this technology knows this and get very board during these meetings, as there is a lot of stuff that isn't important to them at the time that is going on. Now that said, It is still rude to disrupt the meeting with your activities, and if you are stuck at the meeting you should show some tact, but hopefully experience will clear that up.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      At a business meeting?

    8. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Tanktalus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More time spent paying attention even when you didn't think it was important may have paid off on spelling and grammar. "ideas", "were" limited, "fully involved mentally" (ok, that one is probably debatable), "The" 20"-"somethings", "bored"

      That said, the road we've been going down for decades already, since even the 40-somethings were kids, is one of more and more stimulation, of lower and lower quality. A hundred years ago, kids likely had to invent their own games, or, if they had access, they could read. 40 years ago, it was TV. Today it's Facebook. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that we've been training ourselves to require constant stimulation, with no regard for how good it is. Or, rather, we've stopped learning how to just be quiet and focused on the here and now, no matter how "boring" it might be. It apparently is also a helpful skill for being respectful of those around you.

    9. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh...yes.

    10. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Well excuse my Diagnosed Dyslexia, some things are not quite easy for me.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 3, Informative

      I turn 28 this december. I grew up with MS-DOS and Windows 3.11, so yeah, I know what minesweeper is. :) Got to grow up with it.

    12. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by dknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but that is largely a load of crap.

      I have had to attend a great many meetings in my day that were entirely irrelevant to me, my job, etc. There was no reason for me to be there, other than the fact that a manager wanted me to physically be there.

      Now, you can argue that I should not have to attend useless meetings, but the older generation is stuck on them and so we have little choice. That is not to say that no meetings have merit, of course.

      Being able to sit quietly in an irrelevant meeting isn't actually a particularly useful skill in the rest of life, so I can hardly blame anyone for wanting something to do or some other distraction during them.

      You may consider it impolite or disrespectful. I consider it disrespectful to make me waste an hour of my time because you feel the need to show your self-importance by calling unnecessary meetings and forcing people who have no need to go to them to be there.

    13. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      Exactly. That would frequently show that they;re paying attention.

    14. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by msauve · · Score: 1

      The paradox of our time in history
      Is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers
      We have wider freeways but narrower viewpoints
      We spend more but we have less
      We buy more but we enjoy it less
      We have bigger houses and smaller families
      More conveniences and less time
      We have more degrees but less depth
      More knowledge but less judgment
      More experts but more problems
      More medicine but less wellness

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    15. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

      If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss. If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

    16. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by jimbrooking · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ok, I am a 30 something year old so I don't fit into either demographics...

      However most of the time meetings are an out of date idea's. They historically worked because we didn't have a communication infrastructure that we do today. Conference phones where limited in the number of people on the line, issues with the person not being close enough to the phone to be heard and a slew of other communication problems, and before that it was very hard to get a bunch of people work on an idea, in a timely manner.

      But really for most meetings, the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved unless there is something important to them. It would be much easier to chat via a message system, you can see the stuff go across your screen, while you work on something else, until something important comes up you can can then review what went on and come up with an appropriate answer.

      the 20 somethings who grew up with this technology knows this and get very board during these meetings, as there is a lot of stuff that isn't important to them at the time that is going on. Now that said, It is still rude to disrupt the meeting with your activities, and if you are stuck at the meeting you should show some tact, but hopefully experience will clear that up.

      So, apparently are spelling and grammar (oudated idea's - SIC).

    17. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by opentunings · · Score: 2

      But really for most meetings, the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved

      Dyslexia may explain why you don't need to be fully involved. It's my understanding that a lot of things work differently in the dyslexic mind vs. the non-dyslexic mind. Some are good, some are bad. Ask Richard Branson, Scott Adams or Steven Spielberg.

      However, most of the population isn't dyslexic, and for them to contribute to or benefit from the meeting, they do indeed need to be fully mentally involved. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for your coworkers, or neighbors, or...

      If you really feel that you don't need to be attentive, I'd suggest that you show some respect for your coworkers and simply dial in to the meeting. You'd be showing respect to them by not behaving in a way that annoys the crap out of them, while you're right in front of them.

    18. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by petsounds · · Score: 1

      For collaborative projects, in-the-room meetings are still vital. Videoconferences can be adequate for status check-ins, but messaging meetings leads to most people not paying attention. You may be "bored" or feel like your bit of a project is the only important part, but without everyone paying attention to what others are doing -- as well as giving your valuable input on project question marks -- the project will go off the rails to a lesser or greater degree down the road when you say, "Oh I didn't know you were doing that." "Yeah jellomizer, we discussed that in the meeting two months ago."

      But I suppose this is part of the what this study shows -- that younger people believe they are the center of the universe, and anything not directly related to them is a waste of their time.

    19. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by gmclapp · · Score: 1

      I have dyslexia... And spell check.
      That said, where I work, this happens all of the time. People use their cell phones during meetings all the time. I am in my 20s and it honestly doesn't bother me. Even if I'm the meeting organizer. Speaking audibly on the phone is something else entirely as it distracts others significantly. The main reason people using their phones in meetings doesn't bother me is that corporate email is often sent to cell phones of employees here. Being able to answer their phones allows them to be available to more people and customers and makes them more likely to attend the meeting.

      --
      Common Sense (+1)
    20. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were working for an employer, then none of the meetings could have been a waste of your time. After all, you were paid to be there by the employer. So it might have been a waste of the employer's money, but that's the employer/supervisor's decision, not yours. Most employers believe that sitting in meetings gains you a wider perspective of the problems that the rest of the company faces. Sitting in an otherwise irrelevant meeting can result in some rather unusual problem solving, as you have the opportunity to think outside the box in which others have been sitting. I had those opportunities when I was young, and I looked around the places I worked and discovered I had a lot more to learn about the businesses than just my tech world. Unless I just wanted to stay a techie permanently.

    21. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If my boss wants his ego masturbated, he can put that in a new contract - which I won't sign.

    22. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Weaselmancer · · Score: 2

      Exactly. If it was fun they wouldn't have to pay you to be there. This is where he goes wrong:

      "Being able to sit quietly in an irrelevant meeting isn't actually a particularly useful skill in the rest of life, so I can hardly blame anyone for wanting something to do or some other distraction during them."

      Yes it is a useful skill in life. It's part of how you stay employed. Your boss wants you in the meeting, so you are in the meeting. End of story. Wanting "some other distraction" is another way of saying "you're boring me" and is a career limiting move. Stay alert, stay attentive. Spend the entire meeting trying to think of something to add to it. A viewpoint missed or a good question unasked.

      That's what you're there for.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    23. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      Being able to sit quietly in an irrelevant meeting isn't actually a particularly useful skill in the rest of life, so I can hardly blame anyone for wanting something to do or some other distraction during them.

      You may consider it impolite or disrespectful. I consider it disrespectful to make me waste an hour of my time because you feel the need to show your self-importance by calling unnecessary meetings and forcing people who have no need to go to them to be there.

      Showing respect is absolutely a useful skill for the rest of your life. You may think it's beneath you but all you're really showing is the me-first attitude so prevalent in this day and age.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    24. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by sjames · · Score: 2

      It becomes a problem at review time when all the things you wanted to be doing instead are metrics used to decide your raise and sitting quietly in meetings while the boss talks about golf isn't.

      I agree they shouldn't be taking phone calls right there in the meeting, people are trying to sleep.

    25. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People have been saying that forever: http://xkcd.com/1227/

    26. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by phorm · · Score: 1

      I'm also paid to get things done. Part of this includes responding to events outside the meeting, coordinating, etc. If I'm going to sit through an unproductive meeting, at least I can be semi-productive by answering important messages/emails/etc.

      Often if something comes up during a meeting, it'll require me to contact somebody else. Sometimes it's more effective to whip out the phone and fire off a one-line email or IM.

    27. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Reapy · · Score: 1

      You are being silly. Things may seem different to you now, but thanks to the internet you are much more aware of what millions more are doing today than you were even 15 years ago. Before your snapshot of the world was limited to what your neighbors were doing and what the newspapers and television decided to show you. Chances are poorer quality creations were filtered out by cost of distribution, you would only see the best of the best.

      The best of the best is still out there, it is just surround by a lot more stuff, giving the appearance of everything being crap, but in reality that crap just couldn't reach you, but thanks to the internet, it can.

      Also don't forget to factor in your growing age and experience, priorities change and the amount of content you have been exposed to has certainly raised your expectations for what is good. I recently dug up some high school papers and recall them being 'really good' in my head, then rereading them seeing how crap they really were. Same with going back and playing older games, at the time some were quite amazing, but in hindsight the design of them has many flaws I just didn't see.

      I am just kinda amazed that so many people think the world is going to crap when I think it pretty much has the same type of distribution it always had.

      As for my brief opinion on my not RTFA, most meetings are largely pointless, they should just be for quick overview and status if the team is all working on the same thing. Not only that, it depends on the business, it might be that fielding calls and texts are a priority over the meetings and thus answering during the meeting is encouraged. I could very see that immediate response to a customer as a number one thing.

    28. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      I go to scientific seminars. It's considered rude to be checking facebook or playing angry birds, yet falling asleep is totally acceptable. You can check facebook during a boring part to keep yourself awake and then start paying attention again if something later catches your interest. This is not true for falling asleep, you're out of it until people start clapping. But all the senior scientists have fallen asleep in a lecture while few of them bother bringing a laptop in, so it's abnormal and rude.

      It probably shouldn't be any wonder that we haven't cured cancer yet.

    29. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by redcat23 · · Score: 1

      ... and then one day your boss asks you prepare a report of alternative solutions based on all the "irrelevant" meetings you attended. Or, turns to you and says "now how do we automate all these things you've just heard about?". As a late 30 something IT manager, I see all too often people sitting in meetings poking at whatever gadget they have on them only to be completely blind-sided when someone in the meeting asks them a question. Your boss may want you in that meeting as the information might be back story for a business problem that he or she is going to look to you to solve.

    30. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 1

      It comes down to the question of what you're doing on your phone and who the boss is.
      It comes down to the ratio of work to non-work that people do on their phone during the meeting.
      It comes down to showing to your boss that you can be doing something else on his dime right in front of him, when he's summoned you.

      What do you expect him to think you're doing when he's not here?

    31. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this the same boss who demands I work late, and weekends, to get the work done and meet his unreasonable arbitrary deadlines without overtime pay? I have a limited tolerance for that crap to begin with. More so when so much of my day is actively being wasted!

    32. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Spend the entire meeting trying to think of something to add to it. A viewpoint missed or a good question unasked.

      That's what you're there for."

      Please please please do not do it. It is bad enough that we have to sit on irrelevant meetings. Do not make it longer by asking questions no one needs answers to. I wasted so much time sitting there listening to people adding viewpoints that brings nothing of the value.

      If you have a question you need to answer and are curious about, ask of course. If there is something important missing, say so. If you had to spend the entire meeting trying to think of something, then it is almost sure your something adds nothing of value.

      Both you nor us are there to satisfy our need to talk. That is what water cooler is for.

    33. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is the same boss who also authorizes company money to be dumped into your lap in exchange for tolerating his crap. If the pile of money is too short for the amount of crap, convince them you're worth more, or walk. If you can't walk, shut up and don't blame your shitty boss for your prior bad decisions.
      That's pretty much the way the system works.

    34. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If a meeting is a waste of time, then don't go to it. If you're forced to go then please do not use your phone or other devices while there. If you're not willing to flip a finger at your CEO in public then why do the equivalent action by typing on the phone? Being bored is a fact of life.

      I was in a sexual harrassment prevention training a month ago. The person next to me, who was also right next to instructor, immediately pulled his phone out and started reading mail and responding to it for the entire time. Except for a very brief period during which he put the phone away and opened up his laptop. It was amazingly brazen. I am not making any of this up. I really wish the HR rep who was there would have come over afterwords and said that he would have to come to another training session later as the current one didn't count since he hadn't participated.

      Another time I had a friend who answered his phone and started texting during dinner at a nice restaurant. I asked if he could wait and do that after dinner. His response was "it's rude not to answer email immediately." Again, I am not making this up.

    35. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to take a break, I want to do my fucking job!

    36. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You're not wasting just an hour of your life in that meeting, you're wasting years of your life by having a job! Why not quit your job instead? But no, you take the job because you want the money, and thus you do the activities that the company wants you to do. No one gets the perfect job where they are never asked to do something they'd rather not do. Even CEOs have to put up with stuff they don't like to do, so why does Benny, the idiot from IT, get special dispensation to disrupt the meeting?

      The hour in that meeting should be treated exactly the same as the hour a day you spend at your desk doing work. Stop thinking of a meeting as wasting "your time" when the coding you are doing is also not "your time". You seem to be the one acting self important here, not the person who called the meeting.

      If the meeting is really boring, then learn the useful skill of daydreaming. Maybe take a notepad and pen and take some notes, then you can jot down useful ideas while the speaker naively thinks that you are engaged.

    37. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well excuse my Diagnosed Dyslexia, some things are not quite easy for me.

      You should put that in your sig so we'll know better next time.

      BTW, I use the OpenDyslexic font when I'm having trouble reading.

    38. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

      No it bloody isn't. If you've been hired as a programer, your job is to program. Read your contract.

      If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss.

      Good luck if you have a boss who values "meeting weight".

      If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

      If you believe sitting totally bored in a meeting is a break then you a very strange person. Here's something that would be amusing. Try telling a union employee i a boring meeting that they're "on break" and what your ass get smacked down faster than you can even finish the sentence.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    39. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a first date to a nice restaurant and she fielded two phone calls during the meal, and on the third call I excused my self and took off, leaving her to pay the bill. I bet she's a frequent user of her cell phone during meetings.

    40. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by peragrin · · Score: 1

      I don't use my phone during meetings. but just sitting in a meeting for 10 minutes is enough to make me start yawning. Not because I am physically tired, but because in a meeting I can't stretch, twist, or other wise move. I may or may not have something to contribute, but just sitting in a meeting means I am not moving enough to keep awake.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    41. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 1

      > No it bloody isn't. If you've been hired as a programer, your job is to program. Read your contract.

      Try telling that to your boss and see how slowly things move at the unemployment office.
      Most contracts don't have explicit clauses about bad programming, but they do have clauses about disrespect for the hierarchy.

      > Good luck if you have a boss who values "meeting weight".

      Then you do what your boss values. welcome the real world.
      You can talk about it -carefully- with his boss if he's causing you to fail.

      > If you believe sitting totally bored in a meeting is a break then you a very strange person.

      You're surrounded by stranger people.

      > Try telling a union employee i a boring meeting that they're "on break" and what your ass get smacked down faster than you can even finish the sentence.

      Strawman. We're not talking about the legal definition of a break here.

    42. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Imagix · · Score: 1

      the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved unless there is something important to them

      Then they shouldn't be in the meeting. Here's where the problem is. People calling meetings and including as many people as possible so as to appear important "look how many people I can get to show up", instead of calling the people to which the meeting's content matters. Yes, doing email or making phone calls during a meeting is a bad thing. (Additionally, meetings that just simply go on too long. People who want to rehash the same thing over and over, that sort of thing.)

    43. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by anagama · · Score: 1

      So here's what I don't get: if the meeting can be essentially ignored by task switching from paying attention to the meeting to paying attention to texts and emails, then the meeting clearly isn't that important. If a meeting isn't important, isn't it just a waste of everyone's time to have it? If it is important, isn't it counterproductive to have people not paying attention to the meeting?

      Anyway, I guess my point is, if you are running a meeting in which you feel it is OK for someone to check out and drift off into their own world, maybe you just don't need the meeting at all.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    44. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you have two options.

      1. Go to the meeting, pay attention, listen to everything that is said.

      2. Tell the arranger of the meeting, or your boss, or whoever is in charge of you being there, that it is a waste of time and you would be much more productive doing something else. If you're lucky you may not have to go.

      Going to the meeting and then sitting in a corner and playing with your phone like a 7-year-old at a dinner party is not an option.

    45. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A meeting usually covers many topics, only some of which apply to most participants.

      For example: The annual briefing at my workplace. I'm support staff at a school.
      Summary of results? No interest to me. I'm not a teacher.
      Health and safety briefing? This I need to know.
      Fire evacuation plans? Half of it I need, the other half matters only to the fire wardens, of which I am not one.
      The boss's boss's boss's boss's droneing motivational speech? I fell asleep last time.

    46. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by phorm · · Score: 1

      Uh, based on the completion rate of my projects... my job?

    47. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by phorm · · Score: 1

      It comes down to showing to your boss that you can be doing something else on his dime right in front of him

      How many of these meetings are actually with my boss? While we do have department update meetings, it's usually not him calling the useless time-wasters of which 90% of attendees could probably be doing something more productive.

    48. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by vux984 · · Score: 1

      I have had to attend a great many meetings in my day that were entirely irrelevant to me, my job, etc. There was no reason for me to be there, other than the fact that a manager wanted me to physically be there.

      I have been to many such meetings as well, however, usually there was a reason for me to be there. I usually had a small role to play, even if just for a few minutes, or to be available to clarify or discuss a particular issue.

      While they were largely a waste of my time, having me there was likely often worthwhile for the company. It would have been unwieldy to summon and dismiss me just for the small part I would play, especially if I'd need to be briefed on context first. Being there, even just half listening most of it, meant I was ready to contribute when needed.

      On top of that, I can say that email and IM exchanges can run for days, between a dozen people and sometimes just getting everyone on the phone for 20-30 minutes with the purpose of making decision really is the best way of just getting shit done.

      All that said, if I got a text during such a meeting, I'd probably read/respond.

      But there are other meetings, where I'm the host, or a crucial part of it, where it would disrupt the meeting for me not to be paying attention at all times. And in those cases I wouldn't think of taking a text or looking at an email.

      You may consider it impolite or disrespectful. I consider it disrespectful to make me waste an hour of my time because you feel the need to show your self-importance by calling unnecessary meetings and forcing people who have no need to go to them to be there.

      Yeah, that happens too. There are meetings and some people who host meetings that require people who simply have no reason to be there to attend, but in my experience that's not the case... there usually is a good reason, at least for a minutes somewhere in the meeting for one to be there.

    49. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by anagama · · Score: 1

      Your boss wants you in the meeting, so you are in the meeting. End of story.

      Text under a poster promoting self-employment.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    50. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying you're intentionally being disrespectful by fiddling with your phone during a meeting? Then you admit such behavior is disrespectful and reprehensible.

    51. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      This already happens in any meeting that doesn't ban laptops. Is the exact same thing to be answering emails as sending texts, assuming you at least have the new text chime turned off.

      It's pretty obvious when someone is typing into a laptop in response to things that are being mentioned in a meeting, or simply using the laptop for other purposes, such as general email. The former is OK. The latter is very rude, and should be rebuked.

    52. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Yes business meetings can be very boring. Everyone of every age knows this. And yet people are being paid to do a job, and that sometimes includes meetings.

    53. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I consider it disrespectful to make me waste an hour of my time because you feel the need to show your self-importance by calling unnecessary meetings and forcing people who have no need to go to them to be there.

      It's not your time. You sold it to an employer. That means he gets to decide what's a waste of that time and what is not. If you don't like it find another employer.

    54. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      No it bloody isn't. If you've been hired as a programer, your job is to program. Read your contract.

      If you think programming is all coding and no meetings, you're not an employed programmer.

      And if you read your contract you'll usually find some clause along the lines of "and other tasks that may be assigned from time to time." Employers write the contracts,and they don't do them in a way that restricts what they can reasonably ask you to do. And meetings are certainly a reasonable task for all employees.

    55. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by dknight · · Score: 1

      reading, you should try it.

      I said *IN THE REST OF LIFE*
      that is, outside of work.

      I phrased it that way for a very specific reason.

      Your worry that my decisions are career limiting are incredibly entertaining, given the specifics of my job/life :D

    56. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by dknight · · Score: 1

      Dude, I used to work for a defense contractor. I can daydream like nobody else.

      Thankfully, my current employer is vastly better, and I almost never have to deal with useless meetings anymore. But oh man, back in the day? They were *awful*

      My bad attitude at work... got me an incredible job offer from an amazing company who actually respects me. :D

    57. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by dknight · · Score: 1

      I am happy to show respect to everyone who shows it to me as well.

      It's not like I'm some kid - I'm in my 30s here, and reasonably well into my career.

    58. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh... last time I attended one of those meetings, it was some sort of "awareness" thing. Before I completely glazed over, I made a little mark on my handout adding a little penciling over the "r" to make it into a "k",

      My pamphlet now read "awakeness training".

      My co-workers and boss got a good chuckle out of it.

    59. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Complete douche.

    60. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      Did you ask your manager why they wanted you there? It is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask, and will result in you at least understanding your role. Failing to do this shows as much initiative as meekly complying when someone tells you to stand in the corner.

      Now it may be that the manager just needs you as backup in case a curved ball comes his/her way. It may even be just to make up the numbers so that the manager is not outnumbered by the 'opposition'. Regardless, understanding the reasons will allow you to fulfill your role in the meeting.

      Ultimately when you work for someone you should decide whether you are going to support them or leave them (or stab them if you are that sort of person).

      And if you think a meeting is a waste of time, ask the person calling it for an agenda and expected outcomes.

    61. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't that be:

      So, apparently, are ....
      ?

      It definitely sounds weird to me without the comma after apparently, though I can't come up with a grammatical reason for it.

    62. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by tomatoguy · · Score: 1

      I've been in meetings where easily 75% of the attendees were there for political reasons, or "just in case." There's the DB guy, the Network guy, the Internet guy the Security guy, a "representative" or two or three from a few tangential business units. I've been one of those people too, in pre-smartphone days. No wonder kids tune out...

    63. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      You think your time is too important for that "useless" meeting but you have the gall to call the guy who organized the meeting "self-important."

      You're the very definition of self-important, buddy.

    64. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in my 30s here

      So more than half your life and career are in front of you.

      You're just an arrogant selfish asshole. I highly doubt you do anything particularly impressive as your attitude will smack you in the face time and time again.

    65. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      That's strange. Usually there's just one call. The friend checking to give an excuse for you/them to bail if it's going horribly/scary, then some 'emergency' comes up that you have to leave for.

    66. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't make excuses for people. If he's rude he's rude. If he said he's an aspergers gold club member, which he sounds like he may very well be, that's another matter.

    67. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why are you in the meeting if you aren't going to pay attention to it? If you don't have the ability to focus on something for 30 to 60 minutes at the exclusion of all else, you shouldn't be given responsibility for anything.. Fuck I'm surprise you don't swallow your tongue when you try to eat. You don't have the mental discipline required for responsibility. You know why people go to a separate room for a meeting? You go there to meet because for that time period you are * not * fucking * available * for anyone else. You are available for those in the meeting. If that weren't the intention they wouldn't call the fucking meeting in the first place. And if you are not being asked something or speaking in the meeting, you are listening. Someone invited you there because you might know something that can help. And you can't help anyone in the meeting if you are not paying attention to it. You are just a sack of shit taking up space in the meeting room. Get your fucking head out of your ass. [/endrant]

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    68. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess this doesn't apply to you, but I've looked at every job I've ever had primarily as a function to be performed... not to be my boss's indentured servant.

      I definitely expect them not to waste my time; I have a job I could be doing!

    69. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by R3d+Jack · · Score: 1

      I had the same reaction to the spelling and grammar. As much as a I despise the English language, spelling and grammar reflect on you. As far as meetings go, they have always been boring. Back in the day, people doodled. Non-technical people want to look at the people with whom they are communicating (they can actually read body language,) and lots of lackeys are a sign of power and prestige. Meetings will never go away, and the perception of people with power over your career is shaped by how you act when you are around them, that is, at meetings. Sorry. At least there are OSS projects for your personal time.

    70. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Tetetrasaurus · · Score: 1

      Your comment reminds me of a previous coworker a few rungs lower down on the ladder from me. I was always rather incredulous that he would text and play games on his phone, even during important meetings in front of the CEO, CSO or the President, even leaving once in a while to actually take a non-emergency personal phone call. He frequently complained that he was unfairly passed over for promotion and didn't understand why. I would say that qualifies at the very least as living in oblivion.

    71. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!"

      Not only is wasting time because by boss asked me to not my job, it's not my boss's job to ask me to waste time.

    72. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 1

      Talk to his boss about it. Until his boss makes him stop, your job remains to take orders from your boss.

    73. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Or, rather, we've stopped learning how to just be quiet and focused on the here and now, no matter how "boring" it might be.

      Speak for yourself.... I can just be quiet, and focused, on my own thoughts, after spacing out, or falling asleep in my chair.

    74. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      The boss's boss's boss's boss's droneing motivational speech? I fell asleep last time.

      Pro Tip: Falling asleep during the exec's droning motivational speech might be okay, loud snoring, collapsing on the table, or falling out of your chair are not okay.

    75. Re: Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be interested in the performance results that indicate that your school has been placed on a watchlist and that you're probably going to close at the end of the next semester.

    76. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Blah blah, I'm now a consultant. And my contract doesn't include endless meetings. In fact I wouldn't take a job like that.

      We're not talking about the legal definition of a break here.

      You're not talking about any definition of a break. A clue: sitting in a meeing bored is not a break.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    77. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IME the VAST majority of meetings are time wasters called by the bureaucrats(MBAs) to as near as I can tell, make it look like they're useful/doing something. (Yes, I'm an engineer.)

      Answering calls: yeah, gotta go with that one as a non-no even in a useless meeting, as it inevitably involves noise making.

      Texting/etc.: If it's quiet, and a waste of time meeting and you can do it while appearing to be bright eyed and perkily paying attention to whatever nonsense, no big deal, although if it were actually an important meeting, it'd probably be a bad idea for MOST people.

      I'm not in my 20s either, so I also don't fit their demographic, but then again I really don't feel like I fit in with any age defined demographic to begin with... never have, except for maybe when I was 6 and younger.

    78. Re: Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are my hero!!

    79. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by inline_four · · Score: 1

      I used to not have to go to too many meetings and the ones I attended were often superfluous and not targeted -- just like what you're describing. Right now I find myself in a role that requires me to attend and lead a lot of meetings. Some days, all I do is talk and listen to others. There is a skill in getting the most out of a meeting and assembling them such that they are productive and minimally invasive to other people's workload. A badly prepared meeting is terrible and can often be handled with chat, email, or phone. But I've also been in many 30 minute face-to-face conversations, often in front of a whiteboard, that quickly revealed important information, honed in on some bigger reality or idea than what any one participant had coming into it, or prevented a huge mistake -- all in a timely manner in way that could not have been done any other way. Meetings like that need the right people in the room, no other people in the room, and everyone to be focused and open-minded. Acting smug or bored as though this time spent is not real work sabotages it for everyone and indeed turns into a waste of time. But it's not the fault of the meeting, but of the individual unwilling to work with others.

      --
      Alexey
    80. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      If the meeting isn't important to you, then you probably shouldn't have shown up in the first place.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    81. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't necessarily think the only way to be productive in a meeting is to add something to it. That just leads to a room of people talking for the sake of talking.

      It's just as good to take information from a meeting, even if it's not directly applicable to what you're working on right now. For example, roughly knowing what the others are doing and how far they are along in a big project is vital. That's why you shouldn't zone out when they're not talking about you.

    82. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by steviesteveo · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. This is the whole point of having people with different skills and responsibilities attend meetings together.

    83. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not your buddy, friend.

    84. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

      No it isn't. My job is to do what is written in the contract, and you can bet your ass it doesn't state anything about wasting my time stupidly or servitude to management.

      Let me put it like this: assuming you're an engineer, would you vaccuum the floor and clean the open space if your manager asked you to do it?
      The answer is no. Not that there's anything wrong with that job, but doing it will undermine your position hurt your future career prospects (gaining experience in an unrelated field) and is presumably boring work.

      If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss. If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

      Maybe you like paid breaks during work. Most likely, you have a job you don't like and are only doing it for the money, which is understandable and sadly the norm.
      But some people actually like what they do and prefer to it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Then when it's time to get out, use their free time to do something more interesting than attending boring meetings.

    85. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Assuming those orders stay reasonable and in the realm of decency.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    86. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, you're special. Got it. Moving on.

    87. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not your time. It's your employer and they pay you to give YOUR time to them. I'm no fan of useless meetings. My wife is generally swamped by them. But that's what her employer wants so that's what they get. They even have meetings to try to figure out how to have fewer meetings.

      The point is, if it's in your employers culture to have meetings then you should suck it up and go. Put a suggestion in the box if you have an alternative to meetings. But if you're sitting next to me in a meeting and answer your phone or are generally annoying I'll probably smack you on the back of the head. Meetings may be mostly useless to you, but maybe it's not to the person next to you so SHUT THE FUCK UP!

      And if it seems that you are generally more interested in yourself during the time your employer has purchased, they should sack you and save the money. If you hate it that much, then you and your employer should go seperate ways.

    88. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by cmdr_klarg · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

      If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss. If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

      The pay's the same no matter what I do.

      --
      THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
    89. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      This is why /. needs a "-1 Get off my Lawn" mod

  2. Kids today... by ThomasBHardy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Kids today got respect!

    Oh and GET OFF MY LAWN!

    Hey wait, can you come back and show me how this new phone works?

    --
    Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
    1. Re:Kids today... by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      It 'Just Works'. Duh.

    2. Re:Kids today... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he got an Android

  3. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

    1. Re:I call BS by SpaceGhost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have to agree. Very few meetings would keep me from monitoring my email, being a tech lead you have to keep on top of things, and the excuse "well,I was in a meeting" means nothing if the department has lost connectivity. Monitoring or responding to social communications is not included, and even a call from the CEO would be taken outside the room. The balance is are you being responsive to your positions demands vs. ignoring them and being involved in non-work conversations, while being able to participate in the meeting so as to contribute as appropriate and retain or record information as needed.

    2. Re:I call BS by slartibartfastatp · · Score: 2

      Yes. I attended meetings of the board of directors and it's normal behaviour to text. Detail, the average age of this board is above 40.

      If you answer a call, it better be important but people will understand

      --
      -- --
    3. Re:I call BS by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

      And there is nothing wrong with that. Checking their messages should not bother anyone else, so if they are not getting anything from the discussion, at least they are getting something else productive done. Even better is to have a policy that anyone can excuse themselves from a meeting anytime they have nothing to contribute or gain from staying. If you are talking in a meeting, and you notice lots of people checking their phones, maybe you should stop droning on and learn to be more concise.

    4. Re:I call BS by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Upper management is on their crackberries for a reason other than "OMG!!! BOOOORRRing!" and it is also a power thing. They are upper management. Their time is more valuable than yours. Your time however is at their pleasure. Be rude to them and they can and will fire you.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    5. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well aren't we the most important person.

      Did you or your company hire idiots who cannot handle these issues? Are all the emails you read during a meeting about emergencies? Wow!

    6. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. If by technical you mean statements such as, "Operations groups will need to be aware of the four hour downtime," or, "The selection of this new software will cost approximately $200K more than using an existing, open source product for no perceivable benefit."

    7. Re:I call BS by jythie · · Score: 2

      I had a similar thought. I have found that while people need to exercise discretion in how they handle incoming texts/messages/etc, depending on what one's role in a company is there can often be an expectation that one will keep an eye on people trying to get a hold of them in case something is blowing up. PMs, leads, managers, support people, all of them might need to keep an ear to the ground in case something time critical comes up that would preempt the meeting.

    8. Re:I call BS by jythie · · Score: 1

      The trick is not not be rude, but to look responsible.

    9. Re:I call BS by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

      I think the primary problem is "meeting" is undefined.

      For a 2-person meeting (i.e., you and someone else), I think it's completely rude to text with a third person (that includes crackberries) - a one-on-one is a rare enough event that the person you're with should get your full attention. The rules get relaxed in more informal situations, but a formal business meeting with your boss, or your client, or whatever, no.

      For small group meetings, I suppose it's OK as long as it's not distracting. Especially if you're not really needed or not participating much. If you're a critical speaker, then don't waste everyone else's time by answering texts while everyone's waiting on you.

      For larger meetings, fine go along with it - half the people there already are. Just be cognizant of people around you and move to the back or something so you disturb less people.

      Yes, it's different rules for different situations. In small settings, no, it's completely a bad idea. In larger settings, it doesn't matter so much. If you want to play Angry Birds, go for it, as long as those around you aren't disturbed.

    10. Re:I call BS by pla · · Score: 1

      Upper management is on their crackberries for a reason other than "OMG!!! BOOOORRRing!" and it is also a power thing. They are upper management. Their time is more valuable than yours.

      Bullshit. They may have the rest of the company convinced about that, but those of us who on occasion have reason to see their "important" emails know better. Their time has more value than mine only by virtue of the fact that they make more than I do, simple as that.

      Free hint, guys - Your titles don't make your kinks any less sick. They just mean you won't get frog-marched down to HR for entertaining them on the job. And that little side job you do on the corporate network? Yeah, don't you dare talk to me about "loyalty", I do my job because I enjoy it (not as much as sleeping until noon, of course, but that doesn't pay as well). Make me keep liking it, Shirt.


      Your time however is at their pleasure. Be rude to them and they can and will fire you.

      The only accurate part of what you wrote. Kids, learn to fake paying attention WELL, if you value your job.

    11. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. Company issued iPads to anyone that had been there more than a few years. All the 40+ guys were constantly checking email on their ipads and messages on their blackberries during department meetings. Those of us in our twenties generally only brought a pad and pen.

      Where was everyone in their 30s? Moved on so they could be hired back at higher pay and free gadgets in their 40s

    12. Re:I call BS by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This is the board of directors though. All rich and self important people who have achieved success and respect in life. Whereas the 20 somethings disrupting the meetings are self important people who are poor, unsuccessful, and have not yet earned respect.

    13. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no way dude. If you're the head IT guy, or anyone that's in a position where you are responsible for connectivity, then you are either also the guy that no one can bitch at, or you're not the guy that goes to meetings, because there's no one that needs to meet with you.

    14. Re:I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If the department lost connectivity and you're the guy the has to fix it, you are pretty low on the totem pole. You certainly aren't any kind of 'lead' if you can't be away from your subordinates for any length of time without everything falling to pieces.

    15. Re:I call BS by Nephandus · · Score: 1

      You're confusing political clout for respectability. That's exactly what fot most of them there and little else.

      There's a big difference from demanding an amazingly boring, pretentious wankfest and not playing along like a good mindless little bitch too, but, considering your former "respect" conflation, you wouldn't comprehend the latter at all.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    16. Re:I call BS by cusco · · Score: 2

      There's this ancient business tradition where in an emergency technical staff can be called out of a meeting. Your company should try it some time. It actually works pretty well.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    17. Re:I call BS by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you got caught looking at porn on your phone at work.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  4. Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by gauauu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe the young kids have just figured out what the older generations haven't, which is that meetings are often a life-draining waste of time? They could be answering their phones in passive-aggressive protest of being locked up wasting their time in a conference room. </snark>

    1. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Meeting" is the antonym of "work"

    2. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Spiked_Three · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are only a waste of time because of people who arrive late, do not prepare, and spend too much time babbling about stuff that is unimportant.

      Meeting can and should be about collaboration, with group participation, and getting something done. If you can not get that out of a meeting, fire the participants.

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    3. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No meetings are about powerpoint, useless droning on and wasting everyone's time. Meetings are the alternative to work for the people who schedule them.

      None of us is as dumb as all of us.

    4. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best use of one of these was by a guy I knew he was in his 50s.

      Meeting is going on everyone is intently listening (or at least looking that way). He is busy scratching at his ipaq 'taking notes' as that is what we usually used them for. Suddenly he lets out a 'yes!' and a hand pump. He had finished his game of solitaire.

      Meetings usually have 3 uses. 1) tell some group of people something 2) show off what you know 3) figure something out. Many times they are in category 2 and 1 can become 2 very quickly.

    5. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good meetings and committees have a good chairperson.

      A good chairperson makes achievable goals, gives out assignments, and keeps discussions on task. He or she checks that assignments are done and makes reports of progress with measurable results.

      A bad chairperson lets participants ramble and never checks to see that anyone accomplishes anything.

      So when you say you go to bad meetings, what you're saying is that you have a bad chairperson.

    6. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      If a particular meeting is a waste of your time... don't go!

      If you're spending time in meetings that are of no value to you and your work and you haven't pushed back, that's your fault.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Spiked_Three · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ever hear the phrase 'the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing' ?

      Something tells me you are an expert at it's implementation.

      Nothing of any significance gets built without chopping it up into smaller pieces and distributing the work. If you think that it is magically going to work together you are crazy. Smart meetings are the ones that pick the leaders and allow them to discuss and agree on an approach.

      I will agree dragging some low life insignificant code writer into them is probably a waste of everyone's time. It is more often done to try and prevent them from whining about how something was decided on later. "Who's the idiot that came up with this?" - harder to say that when you were involved. The point being if you are dragged into a meeting, it is probably because you are a 'leader' or a 'whiner'. At least that has been my experience.

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    8. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why I've grown to love them in certain situations

    9. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I would fall into the leader role, and again "none of us is as dumb as all of us". Good leadership is always better than trying to get everyone to agree on a plan, that plan will suck.

      My experience is that someone who makes assumptions like you just did is probably a blowhard who wastes others time with meetings because he needs to appear busy.

    10. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the kids haven't figured out that you don't have to attend every meeting you are invited to. If you're not contributing to the meeting and not interested enough to listen then you shouldn't have accepted the invitation. If you don't know why you're invited, ask the inviter. Grow a spine.

    11. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      If you can not get that out of a meeting, fire the participants.

      I think my boss would be angry if I fired him. :-(

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    12. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you want other people to take you seriously you have to be engaged in what THEY are saying before you can proceed to make your case. Meetings, even bad ones, are a great place to build your leadership skills and add serious credibility to yourself to whoever is in the meeting, be it coworkers, a client, customers, etc. The content of a meeting shouldn't change how you lead or carry yourself.

    13. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the young kids have just figured out what the older generations haven't, which is that meetings are often a life-draining waste of time? They could be answering their phones in passive-aggressive protest of being locked up wasting their time in a conference room. </snark>

      Strange conclusion for the report given my first-hand observations that a significant percentage of the middle-age workforce regularly read and reply to email and text messages while attending meetings. The youngsters are not special gems spawned from their mother's and presumably their father's genitals. As usual they are late to the party but think they are avante garde.

    14. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by pelirojatica · · Score: 1

      I agree that meetings are a time-suck (for everyone but salespeople, who seem to thrive on that bullshit).

      But, I also think that humans in physical proximity should have precedence over humans not in proximity. That's in business meetings, at the dinner table, while driving, while walking, or just about any other time.

      OK, now get off my lawn, there are clouds that need to be yelled at.

    15. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the young kids have just figured out what the older generations haven't, which is that meetings are often a life-draining waste of time? They could be answering their phones in passive-aggressive protest of being locked up wasting their time in a conference room. </snark>

      I see.

      Care to tell me what their excuse is for the other 23 hours of the day when they're still acting like rude, disrespectful fucktards who consider rules like the Golden Rule a form of discrimination?

      Nice try, but the ignorance here with basic formalities in public (like eye contact, or STFU once in a while and listen) are completely foreign to most under the age of 30.

      And using technology as the excuse is like waiving a pack of condoms in front of a rapist. Don't expect it to fix the underlying issue.

    16. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you have "stakeholders" complaining to your manger that you're not reporting to their meetings, where they ask you one yes/no question after 30 minutes of talking about things unrelated to your job. If you got a choice between getting things done and not getting fired, you're going to choose the latter.

    17. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cynicism is strong with this one.

    18. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by r2kordmaa · · Score: 1

      If you have time to not pay attention, fiddle with phone etc you probably shouldnt be in that meeting in the first place, if there is nothing you want to hear or say in the meeting, dont go. Meetings are so often pointless waste of time because people who are not even needed are asked to attend. Sometimes only part of the meeting concerns you, in that case only attend for this part.

    19. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by just_another_sean · · Score: 2

      I agree that meetings can potentially be as you described but a potential major waste of everyone's time in a meeting would be sitting and waiting for so and so to get off their damn phone.

      I'm over 40 - here's my take: the texting? No problem. You may miss something in the middle of paying more attention to the phone than the current speaker but you're not really disrupting anyone else. A phone call? No way, people can not tune you out and the noise you are generating is unacceptable.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    20. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll counter your proposal. As Robert Heinlein said, a committee is the only known organism with multiple stomachs but no brain.

    21. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we can both agree that you've never been in an effective meeting. By that I mean one where people effectively coordinated their plans in an hour rather than dragged on over days via email.

      The difference, though, is that I *have* been in an effective meeting.

    22. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

      goals, assignments, tasks, and progress are all things can occur 1 on 1. I assume your not talking about chairperson in a 1 on 1 meeting. Typically the only meetings I find valuable are the following: question/answer sessions with an expert, code reviews, and "no one leaves till the problem is fixed"

    23. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by intermodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I may not be a cell-phone-in-a-business-meeting guy, but I am firmly of the opinion that the more of someone's time you waste while holding a meeting, the more likely people are to find something else to do while attending.

      Most people who hold "meetings" in today's business world confuse meeting with lectures and slideshows.

      Watch anything where a meeting takes place from your grandparents' generation. Someone is in charge, someone is taking down the minutes, the presentations are quick, efficient, and unembellished beyond what is effective. There is an agenda, and it is adhered to. If it is not on the agenda, it can wait until another meeting, or be discussed during new business. Everyone is expected to bring something other than their body to the meeting, and everyone gets an opportunity to contribute.

      Go to an average meeting today. At almost every job I've had, what is called a meeting is really a "this should have been a brief email" coupled with "your input is only desired if you agree with me".

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    24. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like you are not a very good leader.

    25. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "They are only a waste of time because of people who arrive late, do not prepare, and spend too much time babbling about stuff that is unimportant."

      So? You've still eliminated about 90% of business meetings.

      Exactly why THIS meeting is a waste of time is irrelevant to the fact that 90% of them are a waste of time.

    26. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You can get the same thing done in an hour in email without the meeting 90% of the time.

      I have been to a few in my life, they lasted maybe 15 minutes and were for dealing with a crisis.

    27. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here we go again. The younger workers feeling they shouldn't have to spend time away from their shinies and whatever social website is this months favourite. Meetings are usually about work and empowering workers to be involved in decision making. FFS wake up to yourselves and get with the program. One day you are going to have to run this shit.

    28. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe they just don't feel like they should tell the truth on every single survey question. Surveys are a dime a dozen, wake me up when they actually film and review meetings and make observations based on actual behavior.

    29. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a particular meeting is a waste of your time... don't go!

      LOL. You don't get it. The measure of how well someone is doing their job is how long they're in the office and their general "visibility."

      If you arrive before your boss, leave after he does and go to lots and lots of pointless, soul-sucking meetings, then you are a "good" employee.

      Once you perfect the art of packing a "status report" with paragraph after paragraph of detail, describing what a normal, thinking human could grok in 2 sentences, then your training is complete.

    30. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "If you're spending time in meetings that are of no value to you and your work and you haven't pushed back, that's your fault."

      No, it isn't. It's the fault of the manager who required you to be there.

      When was the last time you attended a business meeting that was completely "optional"?

    31. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you're being sarcastic (I hope). If a meeting is a life-draining waste of time then it shouldn't be scheduled in the first place. However, if you show up and half the people there are more interested in texting on their phone then paying attention, then you're almost guaranteeing that it will be a life-draining waste of time. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      The solution is simple. Don't invite the uncommitted and inattentive 20-somethings to the meetings where important decisions are being made. Let them stay back at their desks and wonder to their also-forever-texting friends why they're stuck in their dead-end job and why they don't get brought in to important meetings for their opinion.

      Basically, if you're prone to text extensively in a meeting either you shouldn't be there because it really *is* a waste of your time, or you shouldn't be there because you aren't paying attention enough to contribute anything informative. So, get out.

    32. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? You've still eliminated about 90% of business meetings.
      Exactly why THIS meeting is a waste of time is irrelevant to the fact that 90% of them are a waste of time.

      Culture comes from the top. If the suits mandated that ALL meetings had to have an agenda with expected outcomes for every line item, AND a business purpose, then in a perfect world, 99% of all business meetings would be eliminated. In the real world, the useless middle managers would contrive some made up justification for the meeting and assign vague but inconsequential outcomes to each line item, of which there'd be one: General Discussion.

      You can tell someone doesn't know how to run a meeting when they spend the first 5 minutes waiting for everyone to show up and the next 5 socializing.

    33. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      This breaks down due to our complete lack of respect for middle management. Middle management is seen as nothing more than a warm body to fill space. Thus, people that are only good as biological space heaters get hired into the position. Since the vast majority of people in the position are a waste of space, the position is seen as a low skill job, and cycle continues.

      I have worked for good middle management, and bad middle management. I am 3x-4x as productive working for good middle management. I also spend far less time in meetings with good middle management. Good middle management will call meetings when there is a purpose, and will invite people who will be useful for that meeting. Bad middle management will look to marginalize or get rid of people who don't show up to their standing meetings about nothing.

      Bad meetings are just one sign of poor middle management.

    34. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      low life insignificant code writer

      You're a dick.

    35. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I don't care, either way. It seems inconsiderate and short-sighted, but if your employer doesn't have the balls to fire you for your meeting behavior (and all the time you probably spend on Facebook and Instagram and Pintrest and Meetup when at your desk) not to mention all the other "millennial" behavior we're lead to believe is real by the media in the work place, then so be it. If employers are so cowed to "attracting young workers" that they give zero shits about their behavior and attitude, then that is their problem; not mine. Enjoy your competition with other companies in your fast paced race to stupid.

      Again, that is, if the way the media has been trying to portray millennials to us in work place environments is even remotely accurate. Which it probably isn't.

    36. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by msobkow · · Score: 2

      There is also this little issue of on-the-job training. If the design decisions are made in meetings, and the juniors are exposed to those decisions, hopefully they'll learn about what goes into those decisions and the decision making process.

      But if they're busy crusing crackbook on their cell phone instead of paying attention, they're not going to learn shit. They're insulting everyone else and doing themselves a disservice by not paying attention.

      90% of life is boring. Get used to it, and pay attention anyhow!

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    37. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Your *job* is not there to amuse you. You're there to entertain *it's* needs and wants.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    38. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by grumpyman · · Score: 1

      I agree with you on most except "getting something done". To me, that "something" is more about "making collective decision on things so everybody can go about do the right thing".

    39. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      "If you're spending time in meetings that are of no value to you and your work and you haven't pushed back, that's your fault."

      No, it isn't. It's the fault of the manager who required you to be there. When was the last time you attended a business meeting that was completely "optional"?

      Basically all of my business meetings are completely optional. I'm expected to be effective, and it's assumed that I'm the best judge of how to do that in the short term (in the longer term, I have semi-annual performance reviews).

      I suppose maybe I'm spoiled at my current employer, but I've always pushed back on meetings that I thought were a waste of time, and I've generally been successful at getting out of them, even at previous employers.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    40. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Culture comes from the top. If the suits mandated that ALL meetings had to have an agenda with expected outcomes for every line item, AND a business purpose, then in a perfect world, 99% of all business meetings would be eliminated. "

      Yes, but don't forget that it's "the suits" who generally organize the useless meetings then run them poorly.

      I don't dispute what you're saying, but it still comes down to: the problem is at the top. The solution (as you say) is also at the top. BUT... how many at the top recognize that it's really a problem with THEM, and needs to be fixed?

      I think if the majority of them did realize the nature of the problem, they'd take steps to fix it. But there's too much arrogance in upper management for them to see that they are the problem.

    41. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you have "stakeholders" complaining to your manger that you're not reporting to their meetings, where they ask you one yes/no question after 30 minutes of talking about things unrelated to your job.

      At the very least you should push back. Point out to your manager that their meetings consume a lot of productive time and that your actual participation consists of 30 seconds. Do that fairly regularly -- not obnoxiously, but enough to keep your manager from forgetting that these meetings are reducing his department's net productivity and effectiveness.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    42. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      I'm glad I don't work there. Actually... there's a reason I don't work there.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    43. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      This approach works perfectly in companies where software is a high priority. Not in companies where it's seen as a cost center.

    44. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by witwerg · · Score: 1

      If only I had mod points.

    45. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      It's too late on a Friday for that kind of moral dilemma. And definitely too late on Friday for a meeting.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    46. Re: Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad you never learned to not be a complete ass

    47. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Agent0013 · · Score: 2

      You won't get anything done in an hour if I only check my email twice a day!

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    48. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by abroadwin · · Score: 1

      Not all meetings are created equal. If I can provide an alternative to your closing sentence... "Meeting can and should be about collaboration, with group participation, and getting something done. If you can not get that out of a meeting, fire the participants or reconsider why the meeting was called in the first place."

    49. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      This approach works perfectly in companies where software is a high priority. Not in companies where it's seen as a cost center.

      Nonsense. I've been in both. The point is to make it clear to your manager that the meetings mean he's getting less work out of you than otherwise. It doesn't matter if you're a revenue generator or a cost center, less effectiveness is bad. Of course, if he doesn't care about that after you've made it clear, then you're stuck going to the meeting. If you mention it from time to time, though, hopefully he'll eventually start being reluctant to commit you to meetings just so he doesn't have to hear you complain (but be careful not to overdo it).

      And if he still insists you need to go, suck it up and add it to your list of reasons to look for another job.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    50. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I've been in meetings where we turn to a person to ask an important question only to find him tapping away at the phone or nodding to sleep and he missed the question. He may think there was no reason to be there but then is caught by surprise...

      (I should have said "or she" however I have rarely seen this behavior from females, mostly only males think their time is too important to be wasted)

      Granted there are times (hopefully rare) when someone is working on a vital project and the company's time is being wasted by pulling that person into endless meetings (the person's own personal time is not being wasted here unless not being paid). But quite often the same people who are tapping away at the phone are also people not actually doing important things.

    51. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I have seen meetings clear up issues that a week of email could not. There are so many people who think their time is too important to actually read through all the emails, or who didn't understand the emails, etc. You can often tell when this is going to happen because emails keep asking things that have already been answered; then a meeting gets called, everyone is there in the room, a discussion is held in person, and things get decided. Sometimes these meetings pull together multiple email threads and it's the first time many participants get to see the big picture, and suddenly someone has a big insight.

    52. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I've lead meetings that were "lectures". Ie, a tutorial on a new product. It is amazingly disconcerting to try to teach a room about a new product only to see a couple people in the back staring down at a phone in their hand. I know they did not hear me, and I know from experience that later on they will waste my time by asking me about something I covered in the tutorial.

    53. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by neiras · · Score: 1

      Maybe the kids haven't figured out that you don't have to attend every meeting you are invited to. If you're not contributing to the meeting and not interested enough to listen then you shouldn't have accepted the invitation. If you don't know why you're invited, ask the inviter. Grow a spine.

      This. If I went to every meeting I get an outlook request for, I'd spend at least three days a week at a boardroom table rather than doing productive work. 90% of the time, I email the organizer, say "What's up?" and all they wanted was an answer to three or four simple questions. Problem solved, everyone's happy - although some of the meetingy people get sad that you aren't just showing up. They like to have a big audience. Be aware of personality types and who is important to your personal advancement before turning too many invitations down.

      Of course, sometimes you're wanted for general insight, or your team is presenting something, or there's a crisis. Don't skip those.

      Your job is to train co-workers to only ask you to meetings that matter. Kick ass when you need to be there, don't be there when you shouldn't be.

    54. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Well, 2 points for your employer, and another 2 points for you. But in my experience it's usually not optional.

      Don't misunderstand me; today I work for myself so all meetings are optional. Still, for the sake of bringing in work I do have them. With customers, though, not employees.

    55. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2

      Maybe you have never worked on complex projects where it is important that everyone is on the same page, and where consensus has to be reached.

      It is basic maths. 2 people knowing what each are doing takes one meeting, 3 would take 3 meetings, 4 would take 6 meetings and 5 would take 10 meetings. Your way just doesn't scale. Oh and that assumes that the second person you talk to doesn't require you to go back to the first.

    56. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by EricTheGreen · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure most of us geezers figured out the "life-draining waste of time" nature of most meetings long ago. Primary difference between the kiddies and us is that the young'uns aren't experienced enough yet to: a) be able to partition the useful ones from the non-useful at first glance, and b) learned the million creative ways of escaping the latter. And if they keep up with this taking the calls, texting and playing Candy Crush business, they ain't gonna last long enough to learn 'em in any moderately structured place of employment.

      Back in the day, you had to actually be....thoughtful....to get out of a productivity-trap meeting. Nowadays, it's just easier to pull out the little hand-held whatever and mentally escape. Even if you're being immediately tagged as "lightweight", "rude", "arrogant", etc., by the annoying-but-still-in-charge-for-the-moment management.

    57. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      It may seem that way when you are a low-level contributor and are simply expected to execute your assignments, which are detailed to you and handed down from the people who actually go to the meetings.

      What's actually decided at the meetings is how the overall system will work, what the interfaces are going to be, when work is expected to be complete, what the budget is, who will work on the project and all that stuff that determines what you do.

      If you are very good at what you do and show an interest in something that isn't sitting on your desk, you may be asked to play a larger role by the time you're 40. But with that attitude, it's not likely. Some people spend their whole careers just working out the little details like you do now.

    58. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      I will agree dragging some low life insignificant code writer into them is probably a waste of everyone's time. It is more often done to try and prevent them from whining about how something was decided on later. "Who's the idiot that came up with this?" - harder to say that when you were involved. The point being if you are dragged into a meeting, it is probably because you are a 'leader' or a 'whiner'. At least that has been my experience.

      A meeting is a multi-direction, rapid fire communication medium. It can be way more productive than media that are inherently unidirectional (like email or texts) or one-on-one like chat. They're not media-limited. You can use speech, draw diagrams in real time, use computer displays, paper and physical demonstration.

      As a manager and an occasional project leader, I know that it's more efficient use of my time to make all my people show up in the same room so I only have to tell them something once and make sure that all the members of the team are communicating and in agreement (or at least know) how things are going to happen. From their perspective, they're getting pulled away from their tasks an hour or so a week. But that hour often saves several hours of wasted effort or frustration due to misconceptions that are easily corrected but less easily discovered unless you have the right people talking to you about what you're doing.

      There's another reason we bring those "low life" insignificant code writers into meetings: education. They'll learn from much more experienced people about how problems get solved, what the big picture looks like, how their code (or whatever) will be used, what the customer wants, etc. Sometimes they'll have good ideas of their own that are worth hearing. And if they have any initiative and ambition to work at a higher level, their managers will find out and be able to give them assignments that help them develop the skills to do so.

    59. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by cusco · · Score: 1

      I think mine would be amused.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    60. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      I have worked on plenty of complex projects. It is not desirable for everyone to be on the same page. That is too much information. It is nothing but a distraction. Being on the same page doesn't scale period. Many managers use big omnibus meetings to save themselves time at the expense of the people attending. The chairperson will start the meeting by summarizing some other meeting that they attend. Then they will go around the room asking for status. So you sit through 45 minutes of other people bitching about problems and giving excuses so you can give your status. At the end of the meeting they will then give a summery of another meeting they attended. Then a third of the room will rush off to another room for another meeting. If you look at their calendar you will see nothing but meetings.

    61. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meetings are about power. Some of the people who call business meetings are fit to wield that, most are not. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides)

    62. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So you've gone to a stream of bad meetings with bad chairpersons and think because of this complex projects can be done more effectively by everyone doing their own thing?

      Please tell me where you work so I can avoid that place.

    63. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Granted that Google is not like most employers; employees at Google are assumed to be smart and capable of self-direction and given free reign to make their own decisions -- and evaluated on the outcome. It's actually a very pleasant and very effective approach, if you hire the right people.

      That said, I've been in the business for nearly 25 years, so I've seen quite a few other companies and I know that most places are different. But I still say that any employee (or self-employee) anywhere owes it to themselves and to the business to push back on useless meetings. Or, if the meetings really are necessary, you should do what you can to make them as short and as effective as possible, recognizing that building relationships is an important and valuable task, to the degree that it smooths out a lot of other things.

      For example, I'm sure your customer meetings are as much about convincing the customer that you're the right person to hire as they are about exchanging information about the project. Also, good customer meetings also include a lot of subsurface information exchange. You need to understand the context and subtext of the customers stated goals, for example, and to make a bidirectional human connection as well. Not that you necessarily need to like one another (though it's helpful if you can), but you at least need to establish a level of trust.

      Anyway, my main point is that people who think meetings are useless are doing it wrong. Either they're going to meetings they shouldn't, or they're not using the meetings effectively. Sometimes useless meetings are forced by incompetent management, even when employees push back. In that case, employees should just add it to their list of reasons to look for a new job.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    64. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      I totally agree at my last job the quality of minuting of meetings was abysmal in fact my goal for the next year was to at least get people to start number minutes and action points in an organized way and not renumber the dam thigs every fracking meeting.

      And 100% agree on having a chair who knows hat they are doing and is willing and able to shut down anyone whos getting in the way. I once had to stop the founder of a company speaking at a share holder meeting as he was out of order and took the next person in the debate - in this case Citrine or Roberts is your friend

    65. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Generally I have noticed (in IT meetings) people will show up for the first 10 minutes, start checking email on their blackberry, then leave if they aren't truly needed. If you stick around for 30 minutes and aren't needed, you're wasting everyone's time by sticking around. Sales or other types of meetings might be different where it's largely a motivational speech.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    66. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

      "One day you are going to have to run this shit."

      That's what scares me...

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    67. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      To sympathize, I'd have to give you the benefit of the doubt here by assuming that you had not wasted any of their time during your lecture.

      An assumption which I would be obligated doubt. If you did in fact waste their time, I have no sympathy for them wasting yours.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    68. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It was a tutorial, with lots of questions and answers and not just passively listening. They were customer support services, they needed to know this stuff no matter how entertaining or boring it was. If this was a waste of their time then their job is a waste of their time as well.

    69. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      That sounds like even more of a waste of time than it did before. And yes, in most cases, those people's jobs are a waste of time. Yours sounds like one too.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  5. Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who does this? 27 year old here. If one of my employees did this during a meeting with me I would say something like, "Excuse me, was my meeting interrupting your important phone conversation? Perhaps we can reschedule the meeting around your social life. Would 8PM suit you?" (sarcastically)

    1. Re:Wtf? by arisvega · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who does this? 27 year old here. If one of my employees did this during a meeting with me I would say something like, "Excuse me, was my meeting interrupting your important phone conversation? Perhaps we can reschedule the meeting around your social life. Would 8PM suit you?" (sarcastically)

      Did you consider that the call can actually be more important than "your meeting"? Personally, I assume that if during "my" meeting someone texts or answers a call, then there is a reason for that. And I believe that because I respect the people I am having the meeting with, as they -I assume in good faith- respect me, and they would not divert their attention elsewhere, if it was not for a reason.

      If you are not confident in your leadership skills, it is natural to put a grumpy sour face when someone is audacious enough to fiddle with their phone during "your" meeting.

      Bottomline, don't be a fucking Nazi.

      --
      The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
    2. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno if they specified social life.

      tech bizzies tend to take calls all the time.. and the workday tends to be one long single string of some kind of meetings anyways.

      if it's something relevant to what the meeting is about, it's only natural to deal with the communication there and then.

      oh and I know you're only 27 but grow the fuck up.

    3. Re:Wtf? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bottomline, don't be a fucking Nazi.

      It's a meeting. You're supposedly discussing something which requires the attention and input of everyone there. If that phone call is that important then get up and go outside. You don't sit in the meeting discussing something else.

      It's called common courtesy and common sense. If you consider those two items such a burden, then obviously so are you to the organization.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    4. Re:Wtf? by Jakeula · · Score: 1

      I do this. But my company is ok with it so its not an issue. The reason why is that I actually handle business related tasks from my phone like emails. We are a very small company, so when something pops up in an email, as the one in charge of our website and all of the technology, I am sometimes the only person that can respond. The article doesn't really mention the types of businesses, the sizes of these business, or even the culture. So they might have surveyed 204 employees from tech start ups comprised of mostly 20-somethings where this type of behavior is not explicitly frowned upon or even necessary. Also what do they count as "formal meetings"? My company has a few meetings a week ranging from marketing campaigns to a weekly check in. If these young adults ares answering social calls, there is a far larger issue here than them answering it in a meeting. But if they are work related calls and texts, this might be acceptable or even required.

    5. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Excuse me, was my meeting interrupting your important phone conversation?"

      I guarantee you, nothing important happened in your meeting. Nothing of interest occurred. And certainly nothing that could not have been summarized in an email.

    6. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did you consider that the call can actually be more important than "your meeting"?

      If it's important enough to take, it's important enough to get up and leave.

      If you are not confident in your leadership skills, it is natural to put a grumpy sour face when someone is audacious enough to fiddle with their phone during "your" meeting.

      If I'm holding the meeting then yes, it's my fucking meeting, and if you've got more important things to do then go do them and quit wasting my time.

    7. Re:Wtf? by OliWarner · · Score: 2

      I don't know how you work but if somebody took a call *in* a meeting and made the whole room wait while they dealt with their problem, I'd have words with them. If they did it more than a couple of times, they'd be looking for a new job. Answering a phone call in a meeting is both disruptive and rude, regardless of its importance. If you need to answer it, you quietly make your excuses, step out and then you answer it. If you're in the middle of talking, you yield to somebody else to take over. Anything else is wasting multiple people's time.

      The the only exceptions I can think of are if the call is integral to the meeting (live results, conference call, etc) or it's the boss and they know you're *in* a meeting. It's their cash. They can spunk it up the wall if they want to, but I'll still step out to take it. Erm. So to speak.

      Tapping around on your phone is slightly more excusable but that does really depend on how much your engagement is required and it can still be considered disruptive. I would mind if people were writing emails. Assuming the person holding the meeting isn't a complete attention-seeking nutbag, there's probably a reason you're in the meeting otherwise it would have been an email.

    8. Re:Wtf? by hedley · · Score: 1

      Take the call. The world revolves around *you*. A sense of entitlement surrounds *you*. Ideally the call should be in a disparate language to the general meeting group. Lets assume English for the meeting, then the call would be in Hebrew, French, Farsi, Cantonese etc (esp languages where speakers naturally raise their tone when in heated conversation). Don't forget to speak loudly and quickly!, cell phones have notorious connection issues, make sure the other party hears *you*!. You are *important* your ideas and thoughts have a lot of merit that need to be conveyed one-way over the handset, everyone in the room realizes that and will make allowance for *you* because of the stature you present.

    9. Re:Wtf? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I would prefer more tact. After the meeting you hold the guy back and politely explain that it was rather rude for him to disrupt the meeting, remind him that if it is important he should politely excuse himself for the meeting.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:Wtf? by sI4shd0rk · · Score: 1

      and common sense.

      Many nonsensical things were "common sense" in the past. Calling something "common sense" only makes any sense at all when that something is common and makes sense. Unfortunately, it's always useless to do so.

      --
      Ignorance is a choice
    11. Re:Wtf? by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, I'd suggest that one potentially very important thing may have happened. You just got fired for having a poor work ethic and not taking part of your job seriously enough to actually do it.

      Good luck trying to collect unemployment benefits when the employer tells the employment bureau why they fired you... unless you are also prepared to lie to the bureau yourself and contradict their claim. And even if you did, the best that would happen for you is that your benefits would be delayed significantly, so you better have enough saved up to survive for without any paycheque for a couple of months while they investigate the claim.

      You don't have to like every aspect of your job, but unless you are self-employed and can always afford to lose clients that are less than ideal, that doesn't mean you aren't still obligated to do the parts of your job that you might not like. And that includes meetings.

    12. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'attaboy

    13. Re:Wtf? by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      It's a meeting. You're supposedly discussing something which requires the attention and input of everyone there.

      Keyword: "Supposedly."

      I've been in many, many meetings in which my contribution to the meeting was less than 5 minutes out of an hour long slog that focused on 2-3 other developers doing work with next to no connection to my own. In bad meetings like that, I think it's acceptable to otherwise occupy yourself -- preferably with actual work, though.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    14. Re:Wtf? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right. "YOU" are entitled. So entitled in fact that you feel entitled to force people to waste hours of actual working time sitting in a room satisfying a completely worthless corporate-culture convention whose only appreciable function is to allow middle management to spout buzzwords for a few hours. And of course YOUR time is so important than even people who don't need to be, and SHOULDN'T be there, cannot do ANYTHING but sit raptly in attention to your pure gospel.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    15. Re:Wtf? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      "Don't be a fucking nazi. Just because you're responsible for me and you're my boss and possibly responsible for my job and maybe even the owner of the company doesn't mean that you get to tell me how to do my job, man.".

      Some of you people really remind me of the "Noodle's Dictatorship" kid:

      Wisconsin Labor Protests - Noodles

    16. Re:Wtf? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      It's a meeting. You're supposedly discussing something which requires the attention and input of everyone there.

      Keyword: "Supposedly."

      I've been in many, many meetings in which my contribution to the meeting was less than 5 minutes out of an hour long slog that focused on 2-3 other developers doing work with next to no connection to my own. In bad meetings like that, I think it's acceptable to otherwise occupy yourself -- preferably with actual work, though.

      Those are the meetings where you "get a call" and, being polite, you excuse yourself from the meeting to take said call. This call should end up with you back at your desk doing work, having found the acceptable way to excuse yourself from a meeting at which you are no longer needed.

      Now if the meeting agenda is set with your contribution coming near the end, ask someone (quietly) to come and get you when that topic comes up, or let them know that you'll be available to text (so someone can still ask you questions even though you're not there).

      But physically staying in the meeting while mentally or verbally going elsewhere is rude. Common, maybe -- but still rude. It's part of what makes meetings such a pain that you don't want to be there in the first place.

    17. Re:Wtf? by butchersong · · Score: 1

      Discreetly checking email is one thing. Texting or sending email? You excuse yourself if you're in a meeting but if with a group of friends at lunch or something it may be OK. You do NOT take calls in meetings. You do NOT take calls in restaurants. If you receive a call you excuse yourself and take the call. Why anyone would want to conduct themselves in such a disrespectful fashion is beyond me. The fact that its such a small percentage of people in this study is actual pretty heartening.

    18. Re:Wtf? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Did you consider that the call can actually be more important than "your meeting"? Personally, I assume that if during "my" meeting someone texts or answers a call, then there is a reason for that. And I believe that because I respect the people I am having the meeting with, as they -I assume in good faith- respect me, and they would not divert their attention elsewhere, if it was not for a reason."

      No. I didn't consider that. You know why? Because they fucking stayed in the meeting. If the call is more important than the meeting they can get the fuck out of the meeting. Oh, yeah ... I almost forgot: You're an idiot.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    19. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an example of just why society as we knew it (older folk here) is fucked. Reading through these comments makes me very sad for the future because if these are the feelings, thoughts and understandings of the up and coming generation we are so fucked. if the grammar sucks deal with it I'm wasted.

      captcha: balance

  6. We do it in class all the time by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    It's rude to answer a call in class or a meeting, you are supposed to step outside.

    But, texting - yeah, that's normal.

    (I'm not a 20-something, but I attend classes and meetings where most people are 20-somethings)

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:We do it in class all the time by SuperDre · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, texting is not normal, it's rude and should not be done during meetings or classes unless it actually has something to do with the meeting/class itself.. You're at work/school, so you should leave the private stuff for lunchbreaks or after work.. If it's during my meeting I'll warn you once, if during the same meeting it happens again, I'll warn you twice, if it happens a third time during the same meeting, your mobile will become an UFO that'll crash.. People should just have some respect for others and work, and should know that private calls are not for businesshours unless there really is an emergency.. I pay you to work, not to spend your office hours on your socialmedia hub..

    2. Re:We do it in class all the time by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Whatever.

      You're obviously stuck in last century.

      Watching vids is bad, but you need to learn that stuff happens and if you expect people to be available after work hours that your sacred meeting times and your old rituals are stuck in the last century too.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:We do it in class all the time by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You aren't paying me anything. The company is paying me to do a job, and that job is what matters, not your self-important rambling about your findings that don't concern me. If my message helps gets the job done more than whatever you're talking about, then I'm really being paid to send that message, and you're the one being rude by wasting time with the meeting.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:We do it in class all the time by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      At least at school, the only person you are screwing over is yourself, and possibly whoever you are texting, and whoever hires you in the future.
      At work, you are screwing over anybody who is expecting you to be paying attention and know what is going on. This could be the other people in the meeting, people that report to you, and internal and external customers.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    5. Re:We do it in class all the time by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Texting is indeed normal... depending on the work place culture. Texting, when done quietly, is perfectly fine as long as it's intermittent.

      If someone is constantly texting, that's a different matter. The meeting leader should ask the person if they have something urgent to attend to and, if so, go take care of it.

      Taking a call during a meeting, however, is beyond rude. It takes 5 seconds to walk outside the meeting room and take the call. In the mean time, the group can talk about something that doesn't need your input.

    6. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're obviously stuck in last century.

      Which was the last time real wages for Americans were increased.

      Enjoy your bright shiny future, where nobody expects you to contribute anything worthwhile (and you get paid accordingly).

    7. Re:We do it in class all the time by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 0

      You're obviously stuck in last century.

      Which was the last time real wages for Americans were increased.

      Enjoy your bright shiny future, where nobody expects you to contribute anything worthwhile (and you get paid accordingly).

      Why do you think I'm in class? PhD ftw!

      Suck on your last century attitudes and adapt.

      Oh, and global warming is your fault.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    8. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose it really depends on how disruptive it is, both to other people in the room and to your attention to the meeting. Blanket "no texting" policies don't work in all situations, for reasons others have pointed out - the texts or calls may actually be work- or emergency-related and more important than the meeting.

      If you're presenting or actively engaged in discussion, then it's usually best to leave your phone in your pocket and check it later. But if you're just sitting there waiting for another discussion that doesn't concern you to be over, then use good judgment.

      Answering a call is by its nature disruptive, even if you leave the meeting room to take the call. On the other hand, letting the phone vibrate in your pocket without looking at can be distracting if you're the type that obsesses over who might have called you. A balance would be to simply look at the phone to see who's calling and reject the call if it's not obviously an emergency, though it should ultimately depend on the usual nature of such calls.

      Reading texts isn't that disruptive if you're not part of the meeting's current focus. Just don't leave the phone on a surface that amplifies vibrations and it shouldn't bother the other people in the meeting. Responding is another matter - that will probably take your mind off the meeting, so save it for things that are actually important.

      Basically, be discreet and considerate when you're called or texted in a meeting.

    9. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your supervisor is the one conducting the meeting, good luck with that in your next performance review. If I were your supervisor and you tried to give me that BS excuse, you'd be looking at an action plan for improvement.

    10. Re:We do it in class all the time by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      But this is not about texting/taking phonecalls for work, it's about social calls/texting, and even then, you're in a f-ing meeting, turn off all the devices unless you're really expecting a call, but then you can tell it in advance..

    11. Re:We do it in class all the time by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      yeah stuff happens, doing that (taking social phone calls, texting etc) will get you home and start looking for a new job... between 9 to 5 you're on company time not your own.. It's ridiculous that people expect to be able to use their phone on whatever time they can. Because you can be available anytime because you've got you're phone in your pants, doesn't mean you should be available. You'll see you're girl/boyfriend after work again, no need to yab about everything during your work..

    12. Re:We do it in class all the time by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1

      I think it depends on the company. If you tried this at a meeting held at my employer's you would very quickly be told where to go. I think there is a need for new employees to a business to adapt to the business ethos and behaviours and this works both ways; for the managers hosting the meetings right down to the underlings attending the meetings.

      I'm happy with the way our meetings operate. Quite happy to be involved in a meeting but when the topic has moved to an irrelevant subject, I will quite happily check my phone. Sure, business hours are business hours etc but when you have people willing and able to check and respond to emails out of hours, the lines between personal and business time do become rather blurred.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    13. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I answer emails, start doing follow ups of what is being discussed in the meetings and even send IMs with co-workers (either discussing about the meeting without disrupting the meeting, but not taking up extra time, or confirming information with other coworkers not in the meeting) all during meetings. And yes, this can include texting. I don't see how texting is rude during a general meeting (assuming they aren't talking, only being a passive audience). I don't have to have eye contact all the time (research says eye contact isn't that necessary for certain interactions anyway). If you need me to be looking at you all the time, then it's your ego boost, not my attention that you are looking for.

    14. Re:We do it in class all the time by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yes because your message is the only thing of importance in the company. But what happens if we look over your shoulder and the message is just from your girlfriend? Or if it is your direct boss asking you to be in the meeting and participating? The reason you are at the meeting is because someone more important than you and with more authority has decided that you need to be there, otherwise you could have opted out.

      If the CEO calls the meeting, is your time then worth more than the meeting? Is the CEO somehow clueless by not realizing that your entry level job is so vital to the functioning of the company? Let me guess, when the company decides to have a party for everyone during work hours (free food and beer) that you turn it down because you still have vital job duties that you're being paid to do.

      Everyone who thinks their job is so vital often finds out that no one misses them after they're laid off. I know it's a huge blow to the ego to come back from a vacation only to find out that everything was running smoothly in the absence, it happens to everyone.

    15. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're too important for the meeting then why are you there? If you can't go to a meeting respectfully, then don't go. You immature little shit.

    16. Re:We do it in class all the time by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      TFA does not differentiate. Since it's asking whether people find such behavior rude, I don't see a reason to differentiate, either... the person getting offended isn't likely going to know who's on the other end of the message. The offended person is just jumping to the conclusion that nothing could possibly be more important than their meeting. While that is sometimes true (especially in one-on-one meetings), it is not a safe blanket assumption (especially in a meeting with an emergency support staff).

      As a one-man IT department, I've personally outright left a meeting in response to a text message. The message was from Nagios, telling me that the team's main file server had just decided to stop serving requests. By the time the meeting was over and everyone went back to doing real work, the server was back and nobody noticed any problem. I'm terribly sorry if they were offended, but again, I was being paid to keep that server running, not listen to economic forecasts.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    17. Re:We do it in class all the time by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      But what happens if we look over your shoulder and the message is just from your girlfriend?

      Then you should infer that the employee finds his personal relationships more important than your meeting. Maybe it's the employee's fault for not valuing your precious information, or maybe it's yours for not understanding your employees' needs.

      Or if it is your direct boss asking you to be in the meeting and participating? ...Someone more important than you ... has decided that you need to be there

      Is he asking me to participate now, though? I don't think I've ever had a meeting (other than one-on-ones) where everyone's participation was required all the time. In the time where the topic has gone on a tangent unrelated to my duties, I think it is appropriate and ethical to maintain a connection to the world outside the meeting. At the very least, such a connection is a reassurrance to the employee that the meeting is indeed the most important thing going on presently. At most, the employee can still support other operations as needed. The exact level of communication that is appropriate depends on the meeting and the communication.

      If the CEO calls the meeting, is your time then worth more than the meeting? Is the CEO somehow clueless by not realizing that your entry level job is so vital to the functioning of the company?

      Possibly. I've walked out on a C*O's meeting before when a situation demanded immediate attention. He never questioned it, because he knew that the only reason I'd do such a thing is if the interruption was indeed more important (and it was). I've been pretty fortunate in this regard, in that most of my bosses have understood and accepted that I put my direct work responsibilities first at all times, even during meetings. On the other hand, that also includes most personal time - I'd much rather be interrupted while playing a video game than be unaware when I next arrive at work.

      Let me guess, when the company decides to have a party for everyone during work hours (free food and beer) that you turn it down because you still have vital job duties that you're being paid to do.

      Probably not... but I would just as easily interrupt that for a message, because I'm still being paid to do my job. That also means that the beer consumption would have to be limited, as well. If it were possible to be certain that nothing could demand attention (for example if everyone is indeed at the party, and my regular duties could only be invoked by someone else's request), then it would be appropriate to turn off the phone and relax, just as it may be appropriate to turn off the phone and be unavailable during an actually-important one-on-one meeting.

      Everyone who thinks their job is so vital often finds out that no one misses them after they're laid off.

      My job is not vital, but I am still responsible for it. If I were laid off (or on vacation), my duties would be unassigned, and work would go on. That does not excuse me from those responsibilities now.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    18. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is wrong with people like you? Is your entire generation completely fucking broken?

    19. Re:We do it in class all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were laid off (or on vacation), my duties would be unassigned, and work would go on. That does not excuse me from those responsibilities now.

      What a surprise

  7. Depends on how boring the meeting is... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2
    For me, taking calls is ok (but you get up, and talk outisde the door) if it's a work related call (on your work phone). That's why your employer issued you a mobile or DECT phone, after all...

    Texting, (and e-mailing, and web surfing, and just letting your thoughts drift) is ok if the meeting is boring enough :-) At our place of work lots of people do this, even older ones, if the meeting's dullness justifies it... (and can be construed as a discrete way of letting the chairperson know..., hehe)

    1. Re:Depends on how boring the meeting is... by Korveck · · Score: 1

      That's fine for your company's internal meetings. You are only sitting with your co-workers and the setting is likely not very formal. But the article specifically says formal business meetings and that's another story. In these occasions you need to be more serious and show respect to people in the room. Texting or talking on the phone (even walking outside to do so) would be something to frown upon.

    2. Re:Depends on how boring the meeting is... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Happens also at ESA meetings, and quite openly so... (the emailing on the laptops brought for "taking notes", that is...). These are meetings where consortium partners (different companies...) from all over Europe gather together...

    3. Re:Depends on how boring the meeting is... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Emailing... or working on matters completely unrelated to the meeting...

    4. Re:Depends on how boring the meeting is... by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Texting, (and e-mailing, and web surfing, and just letting your thoughts drift) is ok if the meeting is boring enough :-) At our place of work lots of people do this, even older ones, if the meeting's dullness justifies it... (and can be construed as a discrete way of letting the chairperson know..., hehe)

      I see what you mean -- texting, email, web etc. are fundamentally discrete. Talking on the phone during a meeting used to be indiscrete, but these newfangled digital networks like GSM...

      Also, if the information in question is particularly sensitive, you say "ssh", that way it's both discrete and discreet, just like Honest Bender's Dating Service.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    5. Re:Depends on how boring the meeting is... by akozakie · · Score: 1

      I would not focus on the boredom, I'd focus on relevance. And again, everything depends on a particular situation and the chairperson. I'm thirty-something by the way, so - neither generation.

      A good meeting has an agenda. Sometimes you're on the meeting for one or two specific points of that agenda and the rest is irrelevant to you and you are unlikely to contribute anything there. During a local meeting, if you can be reached by phone and the meeting is small enough to make it managable, you would be called in and allowed to leave once not needed. If the meeting is somewhere else, you need to arrive early and stay until the last point that affects you, even if some unrelated stuff is getting discussed in the meantime. In that case, feel free to do whatever you please (although I find that half-listening often gives you some usable background information you wouldn't get otherwise), just don't disturb the discussion. Sometimes you are expected to just be there for the entire meeting. Bad decision from the chairperson or your boss, definitely. Feel free to do anything, you're getting paid anyway.

      So, simple rules:
      1. Don't waste the time of others. Just because something seems boring to you doesn't mean it doesn't need a discussion and eveybody wants to finish it asap. So, do not disturb the discussion, don't make distracting sounds, help them get to the part you want quickly. If your phone rings (why the hell isn't it set to vibrate while in a meeting?!?), either leave for the call or whisper a quick "I'm in a meeting, I'll call you back". Do not call anyone, if you have to - leave. Sound - off. Other than that - I don't care.
      2. Do your part. If the meeting gets to a part where you are required, your full attention is needed, period. I don't care if you're bored, you cannot drift off - this is the part I invited you for, if I have to repeat something because you didn't listen, you're wasting my time. If someone's babbling, say so, unless it's politically risky for you (in that case, I'm sorry for you, you'll just have to tough it out). It's the chairpersons responsibility to push the speakers a little if needed.
      3. One painful exception - if you're the "ears" of someone who couldn't participate in that meeting, specifically sent in that role, then you will have to suffer the boredom. You do not have the priviledge to choose what's important - you can't be sure. And you wouldn't be there if the one sending you was only interested in decisions - they should be in the minutes anyway. So, you are supposed to make your own notes, see what gets decided in 5 seconds and what generates a long discussion, look for nonverbal signals... That's a difficult job and not everyone is good for that role. If you are, you probably already know all this.

      Meetings are generally very helpful, no electronic communication trumps a short discussion for decision making. You just have to use them wisely, keep them short and only invite the needed participants. Any meeting above 7 persons will waste a lot of time, avoid if possible. Sometimes it makes sense to do a big meeting though. Especially if you see that you would need 10+ small meetings within a month to decide everything - maybe it's better to even lose a whole day in a large meeting and just get it all done at once, instead of pulling crucial people out to the conference room now and then during the whole month...

      And you simply cannot do a project involving several companies or weakly connected divisions without meetings. Quite often a chat/e-mail/whatever discussion will drag on for weeks, while you could reach a decision in a single meeting. By all means, do as few meetings as you can and keep them short and focused - but they are the crucial points of the project, the moments where you detect and fix any misunderstandings about things that allow all parts to work together.

  8. Pfft. by dtmos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most 50- and 60-somethings I know think it's OK, too.

    1. Re:Pfft. by cellocgw · · Score: 2

      "Me, too." I see exactly zero correlation between age and use of phone/laptop during meetings. Part of it is boredom, and part of it is people's belief that they're too important to pay attention to the meeting itself. -- but I do agree that there are way too many meetings in my company.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    2. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, the occasional discrete text at a meeting is definitely ok...

    3. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has nothing to do with age exactly, but more to do with experience. The more time you spent not engaged with the human element of corporate work the more likely you will be replaced. Leaders aren't the ones with their heads in a laptop or phone during a meeting. Leaders last in business, techno-lemmings don't.

    4. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most 50- and 60-somethings I know think it's OK, too.

      True enough, because being an ignorant asshole is not the sole preserve of the young.

    5. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most 50- and 60-somethings I know think it's OK, too.

      The difference in knowing you're doing it when appropriate and not giving a flying fuck and doing it anywhere at anytime is the difference between the two groups. Bottom line is twentysomethings don't know about tact and don't fucking care to learn it.

      Ask them. They'll tell you to your face they don't give a fuck. Usually in some arrogant way, like responding with the ever-popular "YOLO!" cry of the douchebag hipster.

    6. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my work place, privately owned cellphones, etc. are banned from the office, and the only people that are issued company cellphones/crackberries are management, so it's the 20- and 30- somethings staring at the 50-somethings thinking, "Get off your damn crackberry so we can get this worthless meeting over with!"

  9. This isn't only a problem for 20-somethings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a mid-20s developer and the various 40-something year old project managers at my company are constantly staring at their phones during meetings. It sounds like an arcade with all the text alerts and ring tones constantly going off in big meetings.Tryin to get them to concentrate on something for more than 10 seconds is basically impossible.

  10. It's not them, it's them? by reve_etrange · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ignoring any potential objective effects, wouldn't it make more sense to state, "if you're an older worker, remember that they aren't trying to be rude?" And then, maybe to say something, instead of judging silently?

    Basically the assumptions that the "correct" standard of behavior belongs solely to a certain group, and that others should be expected to be a priori aware of others opinions absent communication, are critically flawed.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
    1. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, just so you know, most people will think you are rude, but they won't tell you so. latin or not.

    2. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "if you're an older worker, remember that they aren't trying to be rude?"

      I don't care if you meant to be rude or not, you're still being rude. Don't try to pin your lack of social skills on others.
      It doesn't matter if it's a text, a phonecall, or simply turning and walking away mid-sentence- you're interrupting someone who is talking, and that is rude. You're communicating to them that what they are saying is unimportant, in fact so trivial that it can be completely ignored at the drop of a hat. And maybe you're right, but there are far more polite ways to go about it, starting with the words "excuse me".

    3. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Texting and msking calls shows you are paying attention to something other than the meeting and/or the contents of the meeting. Most people would consider that rude.

    4. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I consider it rude to make me sit in some stupid conference room while someone drones on about something that could have been handled in an email.

    5. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically the assumptions that the "correct" standard of behavior belongs solely to a certain group, and that others should be expected to be a priori aware of others opinions absent communication, are critically flawed.

      I see. So we should just assume that most twentysomethings are raised with ZERO interaction from their parents, don't have a fucking clue as to the words "please", "thank you", "Sir", or "Ma'am", and need to be told as an adult that eye contact and a handshake is the best way to meet someone for the first time?

      At what age should we fellow "older" adults be expecting these babies to grow the fuck up and learn some goddamn manners? Is 30 old enough to grasp the concept of the Golden Rule?

      Talk about the worst goddamn argument I've ever heard for excusing shitty rude behavior. Yeah, these concepts are learned but should have been learned when they were fucking 10 years old, not twentysomething walking into a place of business where merely saying the wrong thing can land the individual or business in hot water, both legally and financially.

      And a twentysomething shouldn't have to be fucking fired to learn that lesson, but if they're that stupid or ignorant as to how humans interact with each other, then perhaps the hard way is the only way to learn.

    6. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS! My kingdom for a mod point!
      I do see a trend in the current under 40 generation who seem to think that intentions are all that matters. If you INTENDED to share information but came across as a complete fucking douchebag, that's okay. This mindset drives me crazy.
      It doesn't fucking matter what you INTENDED! If you're being rude, then you're being RUDE! Learn some social skills to identify what most people think is rude and STOP DOING IT!

    7. Re:It's not them, it's them? by pla · · Score: 1

      Texting and msking calls shows you are paying attention to something other than the meeting and/or the contents of the meeting. Most people would consider that rude.

      Most people also consider it rude to waste their time in meetings they have no need to attend.

      Don't want people to ignore you at your precious meeting? Free hint - If you could accomplish your official goal with four CC's on an email and one or two rounds of responses - do so.

    8. Re:It's not them, it's them? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      msking calls shows you are paying attention to something other than

      spelling.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    9. Re:It's not them, it's them? by Nephandus · · Score: 1

      And if what they're saying is so trivial it should be ignored, possibly by everyone present? "Politeness" as is is just politics. Your example would immediately fall into a blatantly obvious catch22, which figures since it's a game for sleaze. Stop pretending most of this shit, present or past, was ever anything else. "Professional", likewise, is almost always just a thought terminating cliche to cover sleaze making threats while babbling psychotically.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    10. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you would be better off finding another job. I'm willing to bet that emails or memos have proven not to work in the past hence the need to stop productivity and make something clear.

      Whether that is true or not, if you think your boss orcpmpany is rude for trying to make something clear, you are probably working at the wrong place.

    11. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I wrote that on my phone while doing 70 down the freeway. I wasn't driving but be glad there wasn't more grammar problems.

    12. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      If the company is paying you, it cannot be wasted time as it is their time. Keeping you desk tidy and leaving your office for lunch break can be a waste too. It can be unproductive to a certain task but never a waste unless the people paying think so.

      Also, i don't see how it can be rude for your employer to expect you at meetings you don't think you neef to be at. You are on their time not yours and obviously not in charge. Perhaps that might change if you became more of a team player. Perhaps you would be better off working somewhere else.

      Maybe the workforce simply isn't as professional as it used to be. That might be the attractiveness of the visa employees and offshoring that has been plaguing the industry for a decade or better.

      It reminds me of a web developer i once employed. He refused to answer the phone, demanded to be text'd, and told one of my techs that "your lack of planning doesn't constitute his emergency". It did constitute his being fired the same day. I explained that i didn't hire him for his benefit, he simply agreed to work for it. When that benefit was removed, it was only logical to remove him. His replacement brought so much more value that we ended up increasing his pay the first month out.

    13. Re:It's not them, it's them? by pla · · Score: 1

      If the company is paying you, it cannot be wasted time as it is their time. Keeping you desk tidy and leaving your office for lunch break can be a waste too. It can be unproductive to a certain task but never a waste unless the people paying think so.

      If I got paid by the hour, I would agree with you. I don't get paid by the hour. I get paid to write code, and to a lesser degree, support our in-house apps deployed. Some (a small minority) of meetings help me to understand the business and end-user needs for the code I write. Most of them mean nothing more than "sitting here not writing code" - Meaning, quite literally, an hour of my time wasted, which I'll need to make up somewhere else to get my actual work for the day done.

      You raise an interesting point, though - This discussion has really focused on salaried employees; if instead we look at hourly workers, how does their experience with meetings differ from what most people have described as a useless waste of time? Personally, I suspect they will see it as night-and-day, since companies do value time they actually have to pay their hourly workers for.


      Also, i don't see how it can be rude for your employer to expect you at meetings you don't think you neef to be at.

      Respecting people's time works both ways, regardless of "station". When I have no input for a meeting, no takeaway tasks, and the meeting conveys no useful information me - Well, what can I say. You can force a dozen people to stare off into space and drool for an hour while you try to figure out how Powerpoint works... Again. Does that make you feel powerful? Really boost the ol' testosterone?


      Perhaps that might change if you became more of a team player.

      I've never quite understood that whole "team" myth. Why have one person do the job, when five can take twice as long and produce an inferior result! I mean, I suppose if you have the goal of employing as many people as possible, then hey, cool, very noble of you.

      Unless talking about projects with a massive scale, teams in the workplace exist largely to diffuse blame for incompetence across a larger group. Me, I'd rather just get the job done than find excuses for why I can't.

    14. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      If I got paid by the hour, I would agree with you. I don't get paid by the hour. I get paid to write code, and to a lesser degree, support our in-house apps deployed. Some (a small minority) of meetings help me to understand the business and end-user needs for the code I write. Most of them mean nothing more than "sitting here not writing code" - Meaning, quite literally, an hour of my time wasted, which I'll need to make up somewhere else to get my actual work for the day done.

      You are still getting paid. You should show respect for the company paying you. When it is your company and not theirs, you can makes decisions on meetings- at least that is how it has always worked in the past. I refer you back to my comment on professionalism.

      Respecting people's time works both ways, regardless of "station". When I have no input for a meeting, no takeaway tasks, and the meeting conveys no useful information me - Well, what can I say. You can force a dozen people to stare off into space and drool for an hour while you try to figure out how Powerpoint works... Again. Does that make you feel powerful? Really boost the ol' testosterone?

      And when you do not understand why something someone else who effect your work is doing something a certain way, the boss can say this was covered in the meeting. When you are promoted or demoted, you would have already known if you paid attention. It has nothing to do about testosterone and everything with communications which seems will be lost on you.

      I've never quite understood that whole "team" myth. Why have one person do the job, when five can take twice as long and produce an inferior result! I mean, I suppose if you have the goal of employing as many people as possible, then hey, cool, very noble of you.

      I can understand why you do not understand. Your one job does not make the company or profits for the company. Your one job, whether you do it all by your lonesome or with 5 peers, is part of the machinery that allows the company to make money and hence, pay you. That is the team in reference to team player- all of the elements that exist in order to make money and employ people, including you.

    15. Re:It's not them, it's them? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      I wrote that on my phone while doing 70 down the freeway. I wasn't driving but be glad there wasn't more grammar problems.

      I see what you did there. I'm not giving the slightest smirk, but I acknowledge the humour.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    16. Re:It's not them, it's them? by pla · · Score: 1

      I can understand why you do not understand.

      I don't think you do, actually. I think your latest response explains the disconnect between our respective world-views.

      You view the employee as basically a slave to the company, someone who should grovel at the feet of their great and noble benefactor in exchange for tossing them a few crusts and giving them something to keep them out of trouble during the day. The White Capitalist's Burden, more or less.

      Now, make no mistake, I feel appreciative that I have a decent job in this economy, but also make no mistake,I command respect by virtue of the skills I bring to the table. Any second rate qwiky-mart can give me a paycheck. Not everyone can make a wide range of largely incompatible computer systems play well with each other.

      When I said that respecting other peoples' time works both ways - I meant that. At the end of the day, yes, I need a paycheck, and Mr. Shirt can provide that to me. And while we may play the game of observing existing the existing corporate hierarchy on a day to day basis, put bluntly, Mr. Shirt needs me far more than I need him.

      If that makes you want to get H1Bs... Good luck with that. I've worked at a company that loaded up with H1Bs, and trust me, you get what you pay for.

    17. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You view the employee as basically a slave to the company, someone who should grovel at the feet of their great and noble benefactor in exchange for tossing them a few crusts and giving them something to keep them out of trouble during the day. The White Capitalist's Burden, more or less.

      Less, actually, a lot less. But make no mistake, you are employed at the pleasure of the employer which means you are to do what they ask of you or consider ending that employment. I wouldn't expect you to go out and sweep the parking lot if you were a sales rep, but I would expect you to make sales, attempt to make sale, and do insignificant other things around the office when you are doing neither if asked.

      Now, make no mistake, I feel appreciative that I have a decent job in this economy, but also make no mistake,I command respect by virtue of the skills I bring to the table. Any second rate qwiky-mart can give me a paycheck. Not everyone can make a wide range of largely incompatible computer systems play well with each other.

      Either you are not as good as you think you are, or you are being paid a lot more then a qwiky-mart employee which kind of negates the comparison. I suspect the later as indicated in your statement. That being said, you are still a servant to your master unless you are asked to do something that causes you to find a new one. If that means not being rude in meetings, I do not see it as a difficult thing to do. I speak with several people daily that I have absolutely no respect for and I do so respectfully only because not being rude makes the entire environment better. And believe me, some of the idiots I end up being around make a Dilbert cartoon look like mensa meeting.

      When I said that respecting other peoples' time works both ways - I meant that. At the end of the day, yes, I need a paycheck, and Mr. Shirt can provide that to me. And while we may play the game of observing existing the existing corporate hierarchy on a day to day basis, put bluntly, Mr. Shirt needs me far more than I need him.

      If that makes you want to get H1Bs... Good luck with that. I've worked at a company that loaded up with H1Bs, and trust me, you get what you pay for

      I think it is already apparent that it has made quite a few PHBs look for H1Bs. Every H1B I have met has been paid the same as everyone they work with too. Now maybe that scale is too low to start with, or maybe it is what the market calls for, I couldn't say, I'm not in a position to hire them. But as a requirement, they are supposed to be making the same pay in order for the sponsorship to be legit. I am aware that enforcement of this seems to be lacking.

      I do know that especially in the tech fields, they seem to be preferred over citizens which is why you see pushes to increase the amount of visas. This is despite study after study showing that H1Bs are no better talented then their American counterparts who cannot find jobs. Here is an interesting article that displays this

      http://slashdot.org/story/13/02/19/2157258/large-corporations-displacing-aging-it-workers-with-h-1b-visa-workers

  11. Is this a surprise? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Part of the list of things I go over with my new hires is basic business etiquette. I spend at least an hour per employee on it. The most annoying thing I find is people who have a mother/father/significant other who expect them to always answer the cell phone when they call it. My experience is that a lot of people we hire have never worked in a professional atmosphere before... I'm not sure if this is because of our hiring practices, or is because of the general habits of today's younger workforce. If I am in a meeting I scheduled, and someone my rank or lower answers their phone, I almost always immediately end the meeting, to be rescheduled later. I run meetings so as to waste the minimum amount of time required for everyone; I expect the same from others. The public shaming seems to work well at my current workplace.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Is this a surprise? by tiberus · · Score: 1

      Nope, not when they are raised with cell phones at the table.

      At dinner table...
      Dad: Put down your damn phone!
      Daughter: Umm... (points to my phone).

    2. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You give your subordinates so much power over you. I can image your subordinates playing a subtle game of let's make him end the meeting again as they watch you behave like a trained monkey. Probably taking discrete pics to post on facebook with the caption I'm so bored. Let's end this.

    3. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you are BORING. Everyone is talking about how boring you are behind your back. You get far in business by making friends, not shoving your etiquette down people's throats. You are that guy that everyone avoids because he's got a board stuck up his ass.

    4. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair he must be extremely boring if he drives his employees to suicide.

    5. Re:Is this a surprise? by omtinez · · Score: 1

      On one side, I understand your frustration with those disrespectful during a meeting. On the other, I think that you take your reaction too far and become quite an elitist if you base your reaction on someone's rank. The idea of a meeting is collaboration, and if you collaborate with some and not others then you are not being a good team player.

      That said, is using computers in meetings OK? How about tablets? How about a very large cellphone...? The line is blurring, to me what is important is whether or not what you are doing is beneficial/detrimental to the meeting.

    6. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "discrete" pics? Surely you mean "discreet".

    7. Re:Is this a surprise? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      It's not directly an age or maturity things. The 20-somethings are more likely to be the one SME in a meeting. They'll go to a 1-hour meeting and say/do nothing. It's a complete waste of time. They are there for the 10% chance that someone will ask a question that needs a technical answer. Everyone's time would be better served by reserving the time and having them available, and if a question does come up, call them and ask them the one question, then move on.

      When 99% of your time in a meeting is a waste, you will drift off. The 50+ year olds know they don't *do* anything anymore (other than collect pay for doing nothing), so they have to be in meetings 100% of the time to demonstrate their invaluableness. To them, the meeting is the desired outcome, not the decision or work product the meeting was called to do. So yes, they'll treat the meeting as sacred and get all pissed off if you aren't participating in a meeting that doesn't concern you.

    8. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The public shaming seems to work well at my current workplace.

      Have fun with that. The person you publicly shame today could be the person who decides your future tomorrow. Not a clever approach.

    9. Re:Is this a surprise? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just a personal anecdote. I was invited to present to senior leadership at my company, and everybody in the room significantly outranked me. The previous speaker had taken a while after lunch to speak, and after I finished setting up several people were still not back from taking a break. I asked the executive running the meeting if I should go ahead and start. He told me not to, and that we'd go ahead and embarrass anybody who was late, which he basically then did (he didn't say a word, but I'm sure everybody who walked in noted the dead silence in the room). I was given my full allotment of time to present despite them being a few minutes behind on the agenda.

      The message I got out of this was that the executive running the meeting valued my time, and wanted those who worked for him to do the same. Everybody was well-engaged in the brief discussion following my presentation. The meeting had none of the usual distractions.

      I made a point to pass along feedback afterwards that I appreciated the way the meeting was run. My manager actually told me at our next meeting that she was asked to relay an apology from the executive for the waste of my time. It really had an impact on the importance I placed on doing a good job at work - leadership by example works.

    10. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The public shaming seems to work well at my current workplace.
       
      You think that until one of them shows up with a firearm.
       
      In all seriousness, while they're being jackasses for not doing the right thing you're also pretty unprofessional yourself with the public shaming aspect. By all means, feel free but real professionals would never stand for that kind of thing for long.
       
        My experience is that a lot of people we hire have never worked in a professional atmosphere before...
       
      I'm thinking you're included in that number.

    11. Re:Is this a surprise? by xeio87 · · Score: 1

      If I am in a meeting I scheduled, and someone my rank or lower answers their phone, I almost always immediately end the meeting, to be rescheduled later. I run meetings so as to waste the minimum amount of time required for everyone; I expect the same from others. The public shaming seems to work well at my current workplace.

      So to reduce wasting people's time... you re-hold entire meetings if they ever get interrupted?

      Wow, we'd never get anything done in meetings at my work if we dropped them at the hat when someone had to step out... people have schedules outside meetings. But then we also don't have a lot of meetings.

    12. Re:Is this a surprise? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What's interesting is that this can actually happen today. Even 10 years ago it would be somewhat rare to get phone calls from spouses or children while in a meeting (most people not yet having ubiquitous phones), and 20 years ago or earlier it would have been unheard of. And yet life went on! The world did not come to an end if someone was unable to be informed promptly that the cat had barfed at home.

    13. Re:Is this a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think it would have been a-ok if I would have ignored a call from my mother who found my father had died in his sleep just to hear more blah blah blah about how something the management said was going to change two years ago is still being worked on?
       
      Granted, some people have people who think nothing of bothering them about bullshit but I don't have people like that in my life. And if the ilk of Red Flayer would have said word one about my taking the call he would have lost an eye and a few fucking teeth the next time I crossed his path. I shit you not.

    14. Re:Is this a surprise? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "If I am in a meeting I scheduled, and someone my rank or lower answers their phone,"

      If you assume that someone of "lower rank" cannot have something more important than you turn up on short notice, you have already failed.

    15. Re:Is this a surprise? by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      It's my experience that those who use the 'parent just died' example are invariably the ones who live their lives around their 'cat barfed' calls.

  12. Depends on the business by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Today, you usually know who's calling before you answer. It may be appropriate to take a call if it's more important than the meeting. If you're in sales, a call from a major customer is probably more important than a meeting. If you're responsible for something operational, a call from someone reporting trouble is probably more important than the meeting.

    As for reading texts, if you're in a meeting and the current meeting activity doesn't involve you, it's an effective use of your time. This is more of a large-meeting thing. Large meetings are generally nonproductive anyway.

    1. Re:Depends on the business by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Today, you usually know who's calling before you answer. It may be appropriate to take a call if it's more important than the meeting. If you're in sales, a call from a major customer is probably more important than a meeting. If you're responsible for something operational, a call from someone reporting trouble is probably more important than the meeting.

      Except in both of those cases, you would excuse yourself and step out of the meeting to take the call. You don't sit in the conference room and talk on the phone while the meeting is going on.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:Depends on the business by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Today, you usually know who's calling before you answer. It may be appropriate to take a call if it's more important than the meeting. If you're in sales, a call from a major customer is probably more important than a meeting.

      Sure, but not in the meeting. Excuse yourself, and explain it's an extremely important customer call that absolutely cannot wait.

      And even if this is the case, you're still being rude... just with an excuse. The call may be more important to you, but the other people in the meeting? You're wasting their time.

      If you've blocked out time for a meeting, don't take calls during that time. It's rude and unprofessional.

      Note: This is for orgs that have effective meetings. If your meetings are generally unproductive, it may be a different story...

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:Depends on the business by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Surely the company has positioned the correct personnel to be able to handle sales and support calls such that one person can go to a meeting for half an hour and business can still carry on?
      If you are the only one capable of doing your job, maybe the company should fire you so as to eliminate that single point of failure.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    4. Re:Depends on the business by Alef · · Score: 1

      Yes, it may be appropriate to take a call in such situations, and it would then be accompanied with "I apologise, this is an important call, and I really need to take it" followed by the person leaving the room while taking it as to not disturb the others. People will understand and accept that if it's really the case, and you didn't plan for it to happen during the meeting. This is of course the same as with any situation -- there can always be exceptional circumstances that override what would normally be seen as appropriate social behaviour. I don't think that's what TFA is about, though.

    5. Re:Depends on the business by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Note: This is for orgs that have effective meetings.

      The most effective meeting is the one that never happened.

    6. Re:Depends on the business by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't cross-training be better, rather than having the failure to eliminate that single point of failure?

  13. Also depends on what's a "formal" meeting. by catfood · · Score: 2

    I can imagine really young people in a chaotic startup texting and messaging in a meeting because it's how the meeting works.

    Think "war room" more than "board room."

    1. Re:Also depends on what's a "formal" meeting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm 28, I read and sometimes answer texts in meetings. I don't know how they defines "formal" in the study, but all my meetings are with colleagues - sometimes close colleagues, sometimes other teams.

      In those circumstances I consider it OK as buzzing away a quick "yeah lunch at 12" to someone doesn't interrupt the meeting, and there's usually a powerpoint slideshow running, so you can just read that to catch up. Or you check when the other guys are busy figuring something out which doesn't concern you.

      In a meeting with clients or top managers I would let the phone be.

      Would be curious to know if I'm committing a faux pas - everyone seems to do it, not to mention the managers on their crackberries or the people from marketing with laptops chatting with colleagues or browsing the web.

    2. Re:Also depends on what's a "formal" meeting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been in meetings like this it's pretty scary. Texts like "back me up" to win arguments etc..

  14. Skip them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just skip them. They are not listening, so they don't have all information needed.
    Go on talking. Ask them about their opinion on what was said while being on the
    phone. Expose them to their behavior till it gets ridiculous. At least that's what works
    for us.

  15. Zero Tolerance by rogueippacket · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work in a fairly large technical sales environment, and we exercise a zero tolerance rule for our younger team members when we are out with clients - if you touch your mobile device for any reason beyond presenting content or sharing contacts relevant to the meeting, you will be reprimanded. Don't leave the device on the table, and don't even think about taking notes on your phone - anything that distracts you and forces you to break eye contact with your customer is a bad thing and makes you look like you're only half-interested in the people in the room.
    We will occasionally experience some belligerence after they have been reprimanded, but we always remind them that the best, most seasoned sales team members only need four things to close a multi-million dollar sale - pen, paper, whiteboard, and business cards.

    1. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which in many cases will look like your company is out of date. I make a point of throwing out business cards in front of sales drones who hand them to me. Send me your contact details via some more modern method or do not bother, I am not your secretary.

    2. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Oh look an internet tough guy!
      Tell us more stories about how you will hurt the man that made you feel bad.

    3. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you take time off of beating your wife to post here today?

    4. Re:Zero Tolerance by scubamage · · Score: 1

      Really? You make it a point to throw it out in front of them? Because it's that important that you prove how superior you think you are, and how arrogant and immature you actually are? It sounds like you're doing them a favor. Especially considering that you refer to someone doing their job as a "sales drone."

    5. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that''s what you really do, your an ass.

      stop being an entitled brat and grow up

    6. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You understand the GP (which I'm not) was parodying your internet though guy persona? Talk about irony.

    7. Re:Zero Tolerance by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      I have zero-tolerance the other way...

      If the presenter "shoots first" by making a boring or pointless presentation, I retaliate by taking out my phone and getting on with my other work.

    8. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Throwing away a business card is a tough guy thing?
      I really do that. They are pointless. I am not going to waste my time typing them in when they can send me an email that has their contact data already as their signature.

    9. Re:Zero Tolerance by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      As much as I hate being interrupted by someone's cellphone, this does sound dated...more like some inane thing you'd hear from some aging high school teacher. It's just a powergrab. Knock it off. I doubt you get much respect from your employees when lording it over them like that. If they're not hitting the metrics you want, then look at it on a case by case basis, but really, just about everyone expects cellphone use during meetings now. It's almost a necessity, as you've shown here, to the point where they might as well leave it on the table. They're likely gonna need it.

    10. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which in many cases will look like your company is out of date.

      No, it won't. You obviously have no experience in sales and client relations. If technical aptitude is part of what the client is going to be interested in, then you'll have the necessary technical gizmos displayed and presented as part of your pitch. Interrupting the client or your co-workers or your conversation and focusing your attention on something completely unrelated sends only one message - that they aren't important enough to hold your attention.
      Now I will mention there are some situations where this technique can actually be helpful, but that's a hardball negotiation situation where they don't have many options and you're letting them know it in a particularly dickish fashion. It might get you the client but rest assured they will remember you insulting them and it will almost certainly come back to bite you in the ass down the road.

    11. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      No, because they are wasting my time. If they cared about swapping contact details their are a myriad of ways that are convenient and not showy.

      Their job is generally to distort the truth and make purchasing based on feelings and shininess instead of facts and useful features.

    12. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Stop trying to make me your secretary, is email that damn hard for you?

      Perhaps you have heard of Vcard? Or dozens of other actually useful methods of sharing contact information?

    13. Re:Zero Tolerance by tgv · · Score: 2

      "a fairly large technical sales environment". I think I have found the WTF: salespeople.

    14. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I only buy technical stuff, 99% of the time the sales guy cannot answer any questions and is a total waste of my time. If you want to sell a technical product why send out a guy who can't answer any questions?

      Even worse are when they think they can and give you the wrong answers.

    15. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Throwing away the card ostentatiously in front of the person is not a tough guy thing, it's just an asshole thing. Ignorant, self-aggrandising assholery.

    16. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could hand it back to them instead of being a gargledick?

    17. Re:Zero Tolerance by scubamage · · Score: 1

      You realize that a lot of people who make decisions don't actually like to use electronic methods of transmitting information, right? That's why rolodexes still sell, as do personal planners. A salesman isn't psychic, so he's going to cover his bases about what your possible preferences could be. It isn't "making you their secretary." You could just say no thanks instead of making a show about how "above" business cards you are. Have you actually asked them to send their contact information via email? Also, yes, sales guys can be annoying, especially bad ones. But if you actually treat them like human beings, which they are, they can also be one of your greatest assets in the technical world. I have my current job, which more than doubled my salary, because of a sales guy who informed me of an opening. It pays not to be a jerk. They're just another person doing their job, just like you, whether or not you appreciate their career.

    18. Re:Zero Tolerance by tgd · · Score: 1

      No, because they are wasting my time. If they cared about swapping contact details their are a myriad of ways that are convenient and not showy.

      Their job is generally to distort the truth and make purchasing based on feelings and shininess instead of facts and useful features.

      Business cards aren't about swapping contact details -- they're about a tactile way to associate a name with the person, so you can keep track of people in the meeting and not look like a douche when you forget who is who.

      Professionals will take the card, look at it, repeat the name back while making eye contact. That is a very powerful way to ensure you remember that persons name.

      I'm still bad at names -- I'll lay them casually on the table in front of me in the order that people are sitting, so I can glance at them and reinforce name-to-faces during the meeting.

    19. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? You make it a point to throw it out in front of them? Because it's that important that you prove how superior you think you are, and how arrogant and immature you actually are? It sounds like you're doing them a favor. Especially considering that you refer to someone doing their job as a "sales drone."

      If you are a sales drone, your job is to make it as easy as possible for me to buy your product. If that means you have to give up your precious little paper cards and fax machines and send me a goddamn email...then you will have to suck it up and pretend like you live in the same century as I do.

      Or I'll buy the product from someone who does.

      If our roles were reversed, then obviously the reverse would be true, and you can bet that I would be bending over so as to better kiss your ass. (Fortunately, they aren't.)

    20. Re:Zero Tolerance by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't using pen and paper force you to break the all-important eye contact that you were talking about?

    21. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      My job title makes clear to anyone paying attention. As would the total lack of pen or paper near me. You have to be actively ignoring me to assume I want your card. I have asked in many cases, mostly they just want to make a show about handing out cards. That is when I toss them out.

      Our CEO is very much an older person, he would laugh at anyone in the position who wanted to use paper.

      People in Marketing are also just doing their jobs, they should take Bill Hicks advice. Just doing your job is probably the excuse for lots of terrible things happening.

    22. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is. You're making somebody else go through the extra effort to send you an e-mail just so that you can prove that you're better than them. You're purposefully trying to insult people just for following a convention that you don't like -- even though that convention makes perfect sense in our society, as immediate access to email is still not anywhere close to universal.

      How do they get your email address? Do you tell it to them and have them type it into their phone? If so, then don't you realize that that is exactly why people use business cards in the first place?

    23. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No the email is less work.
      What planet do you live on, here on earth we have smartphones and internet access at all times.

      They already had my contact info, how else do they schedule these meetings?

    24. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >We will occasionally experience some belligerence after they have been reprimanded, but we always remind them that the best, most seasoned sales team members only need four things to close a multi-million dollar sale - pen, paper, whiteboard, and business cards.

      Didn't even need that much a few centuries back. A quick dialogue and handshake with the representative of the king and you were set.

      Why yes, I *am* trying to suggest your way might just have died out with buggy whip salesmen.

    25. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Is this a joke?

      I might be bad at names, but I surely can remember the 5 people seated in front of me. I just met them. Your meetings must have more drinking than mine.

    26. Re:Zero Tolerance by inking · · Score: 1

      If you weren't intentionally attempting to sabotage your corporation's relations, you might have already been assigned that secretary--or at least an intern--who would type up those business cards for you. Christ, if you do anything that requires work with corporate clients, regardless how minor, you should have had one already. This is precisely the sort of representative that would get his company blacklisted five minutes into the first meeting by anyone who is not complete desperate and has nowhere else to go, i.e. people you probably don't want to be doing business with to begin with.

    27. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the email is less work.

      Well, of course you say that. You're the moron who thinks it's beneath you to pick up a tiny little card.

      What planet do you live on, here on earth we have smartphones and internet access at all times.

      Only about 56% of U.S. adults have smartphones. I suppose that you think that you're too good to associate with those who don't.

    28. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No, but I am sure 100% of the sales folks I deal with are in the 44%.

    29. Re:Zero Tolerance by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why sales is for suckers.

      I can assure you that as a guy on the other end of the table from many of the salespeople sent to talk with me about products or services, I typically find myself losing interest in everything they're saying - NOT because they didn't keep 100% eye contact or I got the idea they were distracted by a cellphone text or call. It's because they try too hard to put on what's a clearly FAKE show, while not really having good answers to my questions.

      It's pathetic how often businesses want to sell a very technical service or high-tech and costly product, but the salespeople sent to close the deal have little knowledge about any details of how the product/service would perform in the environment. I'm SO tired of the "pretty people" showing up with a huge (fake) smile and over-eagerness to laugh any any of my jokes, but can't answer a damn thing about technical concerns we have if we buy it vs. another technology.

      You're wrong... Your sales team needs KNOWLEDGE far more than any of those other 4 things, and yes - most of us in I.T. can do without the business cards too. Just send us that in an email, please.

    30. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not bad at names then. Five people is beyond the realm of possibility for me. I'll struggle with 3 names, even.

      And no, it's not all the pot smoking. I was no better as a kid.

    31. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, the customer is always right.

    32. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when it's this guy, h4rr4r?

    33. Re:Zero Tolerance by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Which in many cases will look like your company is out of date. I make a point of throwing out business cards in front of sales drones who hand them to me. Send me your contact details via some more modern method or do not bother, I am not your secretary.

      I am going to have to counter your argument. Most of the Fortune 500 company representatives I interact with use and want business cards and still treat you like a schmoe if you don't have one. Email gets lost or buried and still does not carry the same impact a well crafted biz card does. Sure cards get lost too, but most of the people I know that get a card from someone important put them in an important place until they can transpose the information somewhere else. I still have and use business cards, although I have simplified them over the years. Plus, a business card shows you care enough about your image to spend the money on a nice card on nice card stock. What does being handed a business card have to do with being someone's secretary? OMG! I have to type an email address in and can't just hit reply. Sounds like you have an overinflated sense of self importance and I'd end-run around you to someone worth talking to.

    34. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I work in a pretty small place, end run around me would get you nowhere fast. Different strokes, but carring around your card is not something I am going to do. Either you want to sell me something or not, your choice.

    35. Re:Zero Tolerance by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      So, you make them type your email address in so they can send you their Vcard? And what do you do, recite the email verbally and hope they got the letters, numbers, and formatting just right that it gets to you correctly. It would seem easier to just hand them a business card so they could be sure they spelled it correctly!

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    36. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So essentially, this is precisely what everyone has been getting at all along. Saying that you're small game would be an understatement, which is precisely why you have to flex your muscles at people just doing their jobs. This is really little different from the bottom of the food chain employees who mistreat their wives, because there's no one else who would take their shit. Pathetic.

    37. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ha ha ahahahahahahaha

      excuse me, my phone is ringing ( I need to take some notes on my whiteboard now )

    38. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      High end sales meetings are all about respect and relationship. When you walk into one of those meetings and play the game, you do it exactly how you think the other 'teams' decision makers are going to like it. If some noob sales droid pulls out a phone in the middle of a meeting, that does not bode at all well for the company, unless he/she can recover in some spectacular way. When you have three or four bidders to choose from with approximately equal comparable value, it's the stupid little things that make a huge difference.

      Meetings also require preparation. If you can at all avoid it, you don't get up and go to the bathroom in the middle of a sales meeting. Likewise, you don't pull out a phone and start checking texts / answering calls in the meeting. In fact, no one should ever hear your phone go off during these meetings.

      A few weeks ago I was a visitor at a regional planning meeting (8 people) along with an interstate regional coordinator. A guy answered his phone in the middle of a presentation and started talking in his seat like he was at his desk or something. The call did not sound at all urgent. The regional coordinator (who was presenting at that time) stopped and waited for him to finish his call. After a full minute or two (felt like an eternity), the guy finished and hung up. He wasted 7 other peoples time, killed the flow of the presentation, and interrupted everyone's trains of thought. When we walked out, I overheard the regional coordinator ask who the guy's manager was - I assume it wasn't to give the guy a promotion.

      I don't care how much people were 'expecting cellphone use in the meeting', that wasted mine and everyone else's time.

    39. Re:Zero Tolerance by TimothyDavis · · Score: 1

      Is this a joke?

      I might be bad at names, but I surely can remember the 5 people seated in front of me. I just met them. Your meetings must have more drinking than mine.

      I encourage you to consider that social norms didn't evolve to meet your personal strengths.

      Many meetings don't have a unified list of attendees. Handing over a business card is a lot easier than trying to insert names and contact information into devices.

    40. Re:Zero Tolerance by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't using pen and paper force you to break the all-important eye contact that you were talking about?

      Couldn't agree more with what you're getting at.

      That said, taking notes on a phone doesn't seem practical. Maybe handwriting on a tablet might work, but I'm not convinced.

      What I've found is the best way for taking notes if I'm leading a meeting is to take them in some application which is being presented - it doubles as minutes/etc. I don't take time to make them pretty or anything. Often I'll just hit reply-all to the meeting invite and just take notes against the agenda in an email compose window. If the setting is informal enough to not need cleanup I literally hit send before ending the meeting and everybody leaves with the notes. This type of note-taking is completely non-distracting and often helps direct discussion. If I'm looking to gather specific data I'll start out with a template useful for gathering that data.

      For personal notes I use a Livescribe pen. I find that it gives me all the benefits of a tablet/etc, but it is much more practical to use. I could type, but typing is a bit more distracting to others and is limited with regard to the ability to make notes/diagrams/etc.

      Phone use during meetings is pretty common, but I'd be very hesitant to do it if I were the meeting organizer, or in a situation like a sales call unless the phone use were directly relevant to the meeting at hand (let me get our experts on that for you and we'll have an answer before we leave...).

    41. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about setting them on fire and/or throwing them back in the salesguy's face, but placing any importance whatsoever on business cards makes you exactly like these douches, and that's from a movie that was set in the 80's.

      Just touch smartphones and instantly have each other's info and a known means of contact like we do in the first world.

    42. Re:Zero Tolerance by cusco · · Score: 1

      I think the usefulness of business cards varies a lot depending on your work. For me they're actually a useful way to keep track of the people that I need to contact once in a blue moon. I haven't installed a Pivot3 box in two years, who was the regional field tech? No idea, any emails are lost in the morass of Inbox archives and the brain-dead Exchange admin has dumped all my contacts twice since then. Riffle through the pile of cards and he's the second one I encounter with the Pivot3 logo on it. I'm pretty sure that's how the IT guy for the City of Kirkland will find my info as well when the DVR we installed for them six years ago finally chokes. I won't care if you toss my business card, but if I need to get hold of you three years from now I hope you gave me yours.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    43. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Throwing away a business card is a tough guy thing?
      I really do that. They are pointless. I am not going to waste my time typing them in when they can send me an email that has their contact data already as their signature.

      No, but throwing away their business card in front of them isn't acting like a tough guy either, and the only point you're making at that very moment is exactly how much of a tactless dick you really can be.

      Business cards are as pointless as pocket squares to you, so please feel free to hand me your silk square so I can use it as a snot rag while you toss my business card (that has a 2D bar code printed on it, you know, for you worthless fucks too lazy to type) in the trash.

    44. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In sales this is 100% correct. You're talking money on the table and 99% of what matters is communicated face-to-face and often not even verbally.

      In any company I've worked in (including my own now), it wouldn't merely be "reprimand" but termination. You never want sales or applications people not completely focused.

      And NO, direct sales has NOT been replaced by online sales. Some things NEVER will be anything but direct, face-to-face sales.

    45. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why we keep "tech drones" like you locked up in the back office. And give the big bonuses to the sales guys who know how to interact with people without being assholes.

    46. Re:Zero Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you don't do much face to face business with Asian companies then?

      Just out of interest do you rip up Christmas cards given you by friends, in their face as there are a "...myriad of ways that are convenient and not showy..." to wish you a Season's Greeting?

      You arrogant prick.

  16. Control for meeting size? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This doesn't seem to have been accounted for. Younger people tend to be junior staffers and mostly privy to larger, all-hands meetings where, honestly, you can pretty much ignore what is going on in the meeting since you're receiving orders from your manager as needed anyway.

    Older people are more frequently part of smaller, higher-level meetings where they actually have to pay attention because they're the ones who are supposed to keep their departments in line with upper level management goals.

  17. Businesses are hypocrits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Businesses think it's okay to call employees when they are with their family, they have no respect for private time so why should employees have respect for business time ?

  18. Loaded Study? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't read the linked article, but as an almost-40-something corporate employee I can say that there are as many types of meetings as there are varieties of TPS report jokes. Some meetings have a dozen or more people on laptops, some are broad round table discussions, some are con calls where you know at least a few people on mute are watching tv (or worse). Check your texts, answer emails, possibly talk on your phones in these meetings.

  19. Other way around by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Young folks know that business meetings are usually not actually important. Most of the meeting is spent addressing other people's concerns or bragging about some piece of information that the presenter feels is important, but is only trivia to most of the audience. If there's anything else, like a text message, that is perceived as a better use of one's time, they're likely to pay attention to that, rather than the meeting.

    Older folks would previously have just dozed off in meetings, or doodled on notebooks looking like they were paying attention. Now that older folks are likely to be the ones leading the meeting*, of course they feel slighted when their subordinates are devoting attention elsewhere.

    Another contributing factor is that young folks are more often the expendable workforce. They're the ones who are getting the longer hours and heavier workloads, being taught through their short careers that handling two problems at once is a minimum. There's a good chance that text message is work-related, and not responding would be the greater offense.

    * From TFA:

    People with higher incomes are more judgmental about mobile phone use than people with lower incomes

    ...which indicates to me that the older ones are the managers. On a wider study, this assumption may be invalid, as different industries have more youth at the top, but it appears this study covered 200 employees at a beverage distributor for its initial phase, and it doesn't reveal how many were used for the second phase. Not much hope for demographic diversity.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:Other way around by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      Young folks know that business meetings are usually not actually important.

      Young folks know that business meetings are not (usually) important to them. They often fail to make the leap that although they may not benefit personally from every meeting, it is more important for the senior staff to be well-informed than for the junior staff to be working at their desks all day.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:Other way around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Young folks know that business meetings are usually not actually important.

      No they don't, that's what they think. Some meetings are a waste of time, some are not.

      If there's anything else, like a text message, that is perceived as a better use of one's time, they're likely to pay attention to that, rather than the meeting.

      In the case of the type of meetings you are describing, if your message is more important than just get up and leave.

      or doodled on notebooks looking like they were paying attention

      Doodling in most cases actually helps the listener, it's not an avoidance. And if someone is falling asleep, then hopefully they'll get noticed and reprimanded because that is not and never has been acceptable behavior.

      There's a good chance that text message is work-related, and not responding would be the greater offense.

      Again, that depends on the situation and the place of work. But I'd say that those chances are pretty small, having stood in the back of many, many meeting rooms in my career... and watched as someone sets down that "important message" because they just used up their last life in Candy Crush Saga.

    3. Re:Other way around by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if I should be amazed or disgusted by a post filled with such rampant ageism.

      Still... it's a useful reminder that prejudice and bigotry don't need differences like race or gender to be found in the workplace.

    4. Re:Other way around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my company it's absolutely normal to have everyone in the meeting using laptops. We wouldn't have enough time otherwise. No, I don't think the average meeting is a good use of my time (I have about 2 a day on average), but some are "Required" so I have to show up even if I don't do much but listen.

    5. Re:Other way around by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how to read your comment, so I'll respond to the two interpretations I see. I suspect the latter interpretation is more likely.

      ...Business meetings are not important to them now, but they'll need the information if/when they're managing.

      ...by which time they've forgotten most of the details they would miss while responding to a text message, anyway. I do agree that by the time they get into more senior positions, they should be familiar with more than just their own little area, but they don't need to know every detail.

      ...Business meetings are not important to them, but the meetings are vitally important to their superiors.

      In this case I still see no good reason to require everyone to pay full attention at all times. I've sat through too many meetings that are more just sequences of one-on-one conversations, or one-to few at best. I see no reason not to acknowledge the role of parallel communications. Is it the meeting environment itself that's important to the job, or the content being presented at the meeting?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    6. Re:Other way around by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Oh my goodness. It's like one of these guys just logged in. However stupid you think communication and group dynamics are, that is HOW people best communicate in working groups. Flinging around emails that may or may not be read today doesn't work very well (we tried it). I'm not saying electronic communications don't work, but nothing replaces a group of people in a real-time meeting whether in-person or over the phone. And, the odds that people are diligently trying to get ahead in their work is rubbish. I just finished my degree and most people on laptops (because college lectures are just another irrelevant business meeting, right?) were surfing the web or watching YouTube videos. You can bet that these people were the ones I see posting questions on answer forums; citing their professor's inferior teaching skills.

      Regarding meeting dozers, what you're saying is "hey, some people are shirking their responsibilities, so let's make it company policy!" Companies don't succeed by dropping the bar to the lowest standard of their employees.

      I'm amazed that someone would post this But, then at my graduation there were groups of graduates who didn't have the patience to sit through a 25-30 commencement address without talking loudly. At their own graduation! I suppose this is where our country is today.

      I'm equally frightened that this post has been modded up (+5 insightful).

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    7. Re:Other way around by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Are you referring to my comment or the summary? I see more ageism in the summary (which pulls it directly from TFA). The article suggests that it's the younger employees' responsibility to avoid being rude. On the other hand, I feel it is generally preferential to avoid being offended, regardless of age.

      In my opinion, much of the trouble in the world stems from a knee-jerk offense reaction. A minor miscommunication is assumed to be malicious, and the response is usually the first intentional harm. In this case, I think that all the meeting participants should recognize that their priorities are not universal, so they should all use their own judgement as to when their messages should be acknowledged or ignored, and respect each others' judgement as well. Ultimately, everyone there was hired for a single goal: the success of the company. While opinions may differ as to how to reach that goal, everyone' opinion should be respected.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  20. Inevitably more productive than the meeting itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's all.

  21. Outrageous! by Karganeth · · Score: 1

    It's outrageous that a writer in modern times would so blatantly try to induce outrage in his readers. PEOPLE ARE TEXTING IN MEETINGS, THE HORROR!

  22. Learning the lesson the hard way by HockeyPuck · · Score: 0

    They'll learn when the 20-somethings get a poor review, smaller bonuses, passed over on promotions because their superiors are 30, 40, 50 and 60 somethings...

    I wonder how many of them would do this at a fancy dinner with their significant other... It's a good way to end up sleeping on the couch...

    1. Re:Learning the lesson the hard way by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      They'll learn when the 20-somethings get a poor review, smaller bonuses, passed over on promotions because their superiors are 30, 40, 50 and 60 somethings...

      U MAD, BRO?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:Learning the lesson the hard way by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Maybe, until those 60somethings retire/die off and those 20somethings becomes the new 30, then 40, then 50, then 60somethings.. That's what's called a cultural shift. ..and if you tolerate your girlfriend throwing a fit because you checked your phone briefly, you're a simp.

    3. Re:Learning the lesson the hard way by cusco · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many of them would do this at a fancy dinner with their significant other

      An appalling number of them, from what I can see, and their SO doing the same. It's bizarre to me to be at a restaurant with my wife, seeing couples at other tables spending most of their time communicating with people who aren't there. It seems rude to me, but they seem OK with it.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  23. Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I purposefully sought out an employer who has a no personal cell phone on the premises policy. Not having to around with constantly distracted people who lack the self discipline to put their pacifiers down is incredibly satisfying. It's just like the good old days when people didn't feel like they were entitled to bring their personal lives to work showed up at work to, well, you know, work.

    1. Re:Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by EvilSS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It's just like the good old days when people didn't feel like they were entitled to bring their personal lives to work showed up at work to, well, you know, work.", he said, posting the comment to Slashdot in the middle of the workday.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      As long as this employer doesn't also invade on your home life, then it's fair. I suppose work ends at 5pm for you, and doesn't hassle you until 8am the following business day?

    3. Re:Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I can't recall the last time I had a personal mobile at work. I don't think I ever did. Work has always issued them to me, and expected personal use on the company phone. I know plenty of people that carry 2+ phones at all times, but that's just silly. Everyone brings personal baggage to work, it's just it's different now.

    4. Re:Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That sounds normal to me. Who voluntarily allows themselves to be annoyed by work when they're not at work? That's the stuff you leave for low paying grunt jobs handled by 20 somethings, although you do find a few workaholics aiming for a divorce who do this.

  24. Meeting overload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's probably because we now live in a world of instantaneous response, where the younger guys understand that if you don't respond, then the next guy will. They are probably meeting weary as well, they sit around listening to people banging on about their own self importance, trying to fill the booked out hour.

    I was in a 2 hour meeting that had covered it's content in 60 minutes this week, the chair gleefully asked what we could use the remaining hour for - I decided to go and get some work done.

    I've started weighting my calendar with Red and Green entries. Red is an internal meeting, Green is an external supplier or customer meeting. It's interesting to get a visual snapshot of where you spend time.

  25. Why pick on 20-somethings? by ipgrunt · · Score: 1

    Why pick on 20-somethings? It seems as if people with so-called smart phones pay more attention to their portable toys than to the people around them. Went to an opera last weekend and sat in the balcony with a view over the orchestra section. When the house lights went up for intermission, I looked down on a sea of blue light emanating from little 3" LCDs all over the audience. It struck me that I preferred the rosy, golden hue of audiences 35 years ago, who used those little plastic butane lighters to salute the performers, to the cold, blue indifference of intermission emailers.

    --
    ip, therefore im. -- sorry Rene, with love, IP. P.S. Love that thing with all the coordinates.
    1. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the hell are you complaining about people checking their devices during intermission? That is /the/ appropriate time to do so.

    2. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

      - Socrates

      Seriously this needs in 100pt or larger font in front of every editor.

    3. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone is at the theatre or opera or symphony and is sending/reading text messages and/or sending/reading email, perhaps those persons ought not to have attended the event. When I go to watch a movie at a theatre I do not want to see or hear smartphones, cameras, video recorders, or even a crying infant.

    4. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      When the house lights went up for intermission, I looked down on a sea of blue light emanating from little 3" LCDs all over the audience.

      Wait, during the intermission? What's the problem with that? Better than doing it during the performance.

      It struck me that I preferred the rosy, golden hue of audiences 35 years ago, who used those little plastic butane lighters to salute the performers, to the cold, blue indifference of intermission emailers.

      I prefer a world in which lighters have mostly disappeared along with one of the worst, self-destructive habits our society once sanctioned. While I admire the poetry of the image you paint, I prefer addiction to the internet over one to cigarettes and/or weed. At least the screens go dark when the lights do, instead of lingering like the stench of smoke.

      (P.S. Who the heck does a lighter salute at the opera? It's not a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert. You're supposed to be calling for an encore, not Free Bird.)

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    5. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not actually Socrates.. (my daughter was researching this for college app essays today)..

      First off, there's nothing written by Socrates, just stuff other people wrote "Socrates said"..
      This is basically a paraphrase of something Aristophanes wrote in "The Clouds", which was actually poking fun at Socrates.

      However, it most likely originated in the 19th century as a "attributed to Socrates" by various and sundry speakers making the same general point.

    6. Re:Why pick on 20-somethings? by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      That's interesting since I remember the statement but couldn't remember the attribution (Aristotle didn't sound right in my head) so a quick Google later and here it is.

      Sad that it doesn't have a more precise history, since it's harder to cram thousands of breathless opinion pieces over a few hundred years onto someone's wall.

  26. Meets are bull**** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People sitting around looking at projected images correcting spelling... What an annoying practice.

  27. Signal/noise ratio by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Since 90% of what goes on in those meetings involves passive aggressive posturing and yammering, it doesn't surprise me at all. Now, if only these in charge of these meetings would graduate highschool already by letting go of idiotic things like strict dress codes.

    1. Re:Signal/noise ratio by mark-t · · Score: 1

      In my experience, 90% of what goes on in meetings actually involves discussing what the people in that meeting are really going to be doing over the next week or so.

      Now of course, some people might think that stuff like that doesn't really matter and they can just ignore it and go and text people on their cell phone, but after the meeting when they have no idea what they heck they were expected to be doing because they weren't actually paying any attention, they're just going to look like incompetent tards... dead weight that the company might be better off firing and hiring somebody who will actually pay attention when they are being paid to.

  28. I don't think so, stop lying about me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think so, stop lying about me.

  29. On Call by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    If you're on call, it's appropriate to receive a notification in any situation. That's what it means to be on call, and a lot of young professionals are.

    If the notification requires response, it's then appropriate to excuse yourself from the meeting. Just like you'd excuse yourself to hold a person to person side conversation while someone else was presenting.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  30. What is this pink note attached to my check?? by NotFamous · · Score: 0

    "kthxbye"

    --
    Some settling may occur during posting.
  31. Over 40s by inhuman_4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense. There is nothing wrong with answering a text message in a meeting if your are not involved in the conversation and you don't disturb anyone else.

    Here is my list of stuff that is rude that over 40s do that I wish would stop:

    • Calling me on the phone and reading out a string of technical information. Put it in writing, put it in an email.
    • Print all of your emails. Sometimes other people would like to use the printer.
    • Complain that "new" technologies like version control are too complicated and therfore not worth learning (I'm not kidding).
    • Expect me to provide you, a programmer with decades of experience, with technical support.
    • Not knowing how to silence your phone.
    • Telling me how much fast/better you can do something than me. Nobody likes a braggart.
    • Grumbling about stuff people my age do, to my face.
    • If you have bifocals you don't need to take your glasses off and lose them.
    • Use Power Point.
    1. Re:Over 40s by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      As soon as you stop repeating all the stupid stuff I did when I was in my 20s, I'll get off your back. (jk)

    2. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Grumbling about stuff people my age do, to my face. "

      says someone grumbling about stuff other people do - behind their back.

    3. Re:Over 40s by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, they are apparently not planning to retire.

      Studies show most Boomers in their 50s plan to keep working into their 70s.

      Actually, one of the interesting medical effects of eye aging is that you get better (near normal) vision if you take off the bifocals when things are within arm's distance. So taking off glasses is a good idea. Losing them ... maybe we should all get those chains that librarians and nurses used to have?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you have some personal issues with the people at your particular job vs there being a problem in general with people "over 40".

      But don't worry, someday you'll be "really" old like people over 40 are now and then some 20yo at your workplace will hate you just as much as you hate everyone right now. And then you can say "I used to say dumb stuff when I was your age too!"

    5. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they are apparently not planning to retire.

      Studies show most Boomers in their 50s plan to keep working into their 70s.

      Actually, one of the interesting medical effects of eye aging is that you get better (near normal) vision if you take off the bifocals when things are within arm's distance. So taking off glasses is a good idea. Losing them ... maybe we should all get those chains that librarians and nurses used to have?

      Bad news. The U.S. government has raised the retirement age to 67 for most people in the workforce today. They're talking about making 70.

    6. Re:Over 40s by houghi · · Score: 2

      As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense.

      When they do, you are the person people in their twenties complain about.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a 40 something, I'm not eagerly awaiting the transition when I get to see what kind of @$^!ed-up system results from a generation of people who can't maintain focus for longer than 5 minutes at a time.

      I also have no difficulty with anything you've described. I don't even have glasses. You're casting a stereotype as bad as the one I have in mind. Both generations have something to learn from each other, but some things are pretty timeless, like being attentive to your job. That includes meetings. Anyone who thinks attending to a peppering of little messages isn't disruptive ("I'm good at multitasking") hasn't read the scientific literature on the subject, which gives a pretty grim assessment of normal human limitations.

    8. Re:Over 40s by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You left out the people that don't "trust" tech. Stop calling me to tell me you sent me a fax to check my email because you sent and important email, so you faxed and called to follow up on the email. Send the email, wait 5 minutes.

      I even get people calling me to tell me they *will be* sending an email. Then they send it while on the phone with me, and wait on the phone until I get it.

    9. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense.

      While all "boomers" are over 40, many non-boomers, children of boomers in fact, are over 40.

    10. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a 40-something and have many of the same complaints about boomers. Many are retired in place (they didn't save enough to retire for real) and won't get out of the way...

    11. Re:Over 40s by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      I'm a just over 40 and that all sounds like shit my grandparents would do, not my coevals.

    12. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh Christ, who invited this kid to the meeting. Honestly, I would gladly institute a policy that if don't want to participate, then go back to your cubicle and Instagram all your friends of the two squirrels mating in the parking lot...who the hell needs an annoying little shit in a conference room of employees already annoyed that we're having a meeting?

    13. Re:Over 40s by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 1

      Here is my list of stuff that is rude that over 40s do that I wish would stop:

      • ...
      • Complain that "new" technologies like version control are too complicated and therfore not worth learning (I'm not kidding).

      I am close to 50, and I experience just the opposite : younger developers who think that version control is an outdated stuff.

      Concerning meetings : I have no problem with people texting during meetings, but answering calls is only for assholes

    14. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boomers have already retired, you're referring to the early gen-X rabble.

    15. Re:Over 40s by inhuman_4 · · Score: 1

      Concerning meetings : I have no problem with people texting during meetings, but answering calls is only for assholes

      I'm with you on that. There is no way to have a phone converstation without being a distraction to everyone else in the room.

    16. Re:Over 40s by chihowa · · Score: 1

      The "baby boomers" were born between 1946 and 1964. They're only 49-67 years old right now. The impression I'm getting from the oldest of the set is that they're not going to retire. They seem fully intent on dying in the lab.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    17. Re:Over 40s by dnavid · · Score: 1

      As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense. There is nothing wrong with answering a text message in a meeting if your are not involved in the conversation and you don't disturb anyone else.

      In and of itself, perhaps. However, if you're in a meeting I'm in, and you decide to do anything other than focus 100% of your attention on the meeting, if you miss something critical you have no excuse. I will hold you responsible for anything you miss because you decided you could opt out safely, if it turns out you were wrong.

      I have been in more brain dead meetings than I can count, and its true 90% of meetings have little value and 90% of the content in meetings with some value still have no value, but you're still responsible for your own conduct and your own actions.

      The guy who pays attention, takes notes, participates as best as they can, does their best to act on the information in the meeting, and makes a mistake, I'm likely to cut a lot of slack. The guy who decides they know better, feels their time is more important than anyone else's time, feels they are free to disregard what's going on around them based solely on their own superior judgment, and then blows it because they were wrong, I'm more inclined to just cut.

      I actually respect arrogance, up to a point. And that point is: arrogance cannot exceed skill. If you decide you know better, all I can say is: you better be right, pretty much all the time.

      Also, I hate going to meetings, but when I'm required or forced to, I give the meeting my full attention because I don't decide when I'm required to give my best effort and when I'm not. As a professional I am always giving my best effort, all of the time, regardless of whether I think the task "deserves" it or not. And I judge the character of other professionals in part on that standard. I believe they are what they show me when they think it doesn't matter. That's who they really are, not the performance they put on when they think they are being graded.

    18. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mature people are eagerly waiting for you to grow up so we don't have to deal with your nonsense.

    19. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know many folks in their 20s who think it is also ok to text while in the middle of a conversation. If they are unable to show a modicum of respect by participating in a conversation they started, and they so this in meetings too, they will not get any recommendations or good reviews from me. So go ahead and do what seems right to you even if it disrespects others. It may have consequences.

  32. Link to research paper by Lord+Grey · · Score: 3, Informative

    The actual paper, in PDF format, can be found here.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
  33. What's next, selfies at funerals? by Atypical+Geek · · Score: 2

    Oh, wait, we're already there:

    Selfies at funerals

    Seriously, people, learn some respect and manners. It won't kill you.

    1. Re:What's next, selfies at funerals? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Seriously, people, learn some respect and manners. It won't kill you.

      And even if it does, it'll give your buds some good opportunities to take more selfies at your funeral, so it's all good.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:What's next, selfies at funerals? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Although technically better than pouring out a can of cheap beer on someone's grave as a sign of respect.

  34. Texting? by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

    No, I'm reading e-books on Safari so that this meeting isn't a total waste

  35. 9/10 Very Good Troll by Antipater · · Score: 3, Funny

    Meetings? Check. Texting/modern devices in the workplace? Check. "Get Off My Lawn"-type generalization? Check. This article's author included practically every white-collar-environment cause of rage. And judging by the butthurt-ness of most of the comments so far, the troll was eminently successful. The only thing that could have improved it would have been to specify American 20-somethings, to get cross-ocean flaming as well.

    --
    Everything is better with chainsaws.
    1. Re:9/10 Very Good Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and maybe something about how outsourced employees don't have this problem. :)

  36. Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blame those young whippersnappers! They are all dumb! They ruined my 401k! They don't know how anything works! The worlds problems are THEIR fault..... I have never seen more terrible "me me me" behavior than from the current 40-50 year olds blaming all their problems on their CHILDREN. When the generation before figures out how to stop kicking the debt can to me to figure out, can stop passing laws to take my money and give it to them (obamacare), or really do anything that is productive instead of raping the future generations chance at a decent lifestyle, then maybe I'll care if they think I shouldn't text when being droned at about something that isn't even in my department.

  37. Maybe you should have less meetings? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Meetings exist to not get work done.

    The amount of work that gets done is the square of the number of participants minus 5.

    Thus, a meeting of 2-3 people gets work done, a meeting of 4-5 is ok, and a meeting of 6 or more is usually not a great idea.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  38. It's not just the kids by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I work at a large 'Top Ten' company and I see this sort of thing from just about everyone who is under 60 (the older folk seem to doodle on notepads rather than play on phones). It doesn't matter if it's a manager or an intern, if there are more than a handful of people in a meeting you're going to see this. I get tired of hearing exchanges like this day in and day out:

    Speaker: And what do you think about that Johnson?
    Johnson: (playing on his phone) Huh? What?
    Speaker: What do YOU think about this?
    Johnson: (glazed look on his face) Umm... Can you repeat what you said? I didn't hear you the first time.

    Meetings grind to a halt when this stuff happens. Not only is it rude to the speaker, but you waste everyone's time when they have to go through everything again. Everyone swears they can play on their phone and listen at the same time, but it doesn't work. I understand the occasional emergency call (my favorite was when we could hear the guy shouting "The babysitter is doing WHAT? Stop her before she gets out the door!". I still have no idea what that was about.) but your day to day activities (work related or otherwise) can wait until the meeting is over with. It's just common courtesy.

    1. Re:It's not just the kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In those cases the meetings are too large and too long, and most people don't need to be there. Way too many people schedule meetings for 1 hour (or even two!) when most of the information can be transmitted in about 15 minutes. If there are a bunch of people who need to be statused for a small population of managers, it should be a series of meetings and people should be popping in and out so they don't have to sit through hours that aren't relevant.

      I've been meaning for a while to put together a combination RFID reader/counter that scans the badges of people in the room, looks up their pay rates and has a large display on the wall adding up the cost of all those people in the room.

    2. Re:It's not just the kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with ADHD, I CAN play on my phone and listen at the same time. Infact it's not really an option to not. I'm probably also trying to rationalize my social failings, What I would rather be doing and what I'm doing later.

    3. Re:It's not just the kids by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      johnson needs to learn to bluff better.

  39. Ettiquette is a social construct by ArbitraryName · · Score: 2

    It's just what a given culture or group decides is the "right" way to act. If more people in that group feel a different way is instead what's acceptable, it eventually will be. "Rudeness" is simply violating a cultural norm. Ask a 70 or 80 year old and he'll tell you these young 40 and 50 year olds look like disrespectful slobs with their "business casual" clothes in a professional office. In some cultures if you admire the fountain pen someone was using it would be offensively rude for him to offer it to you as a gift.

    As the twenty-somethings who grew up with this technology expect it to be integrated into all aspects of their life, it eventually will be as they ultimately become the managers and CEOs. Of course, they'll probably find a new thing to complain about "kids these days" doing, even if it's not texting during meetings.

    1. Re:Ettiquette is a social construct by ArbitraryName · · Score: 1

      Er, for him to not offer it to you as a gift.

    2. Re:Ettiquette is a social construct by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      There are reasons for social protocols to exist. Sometimes they involve cementing the authority of elders or some such self-serving flimflammery, but just as often they have been ultimately arrived at through a dispassionate logical process. If you don't need to be paying attention in a meeting then either it is a poorly-run meeting or it is a meeting that you shouldn't need to attend in the first place. If you are pointlessly forced to be there it's still incumbent upon you not to waste other people's time in addition to your own.

      In your unlikely speculative future scenario of current twenty-year-olds maintaining their current counterproductive habits in two or three decades when they're managers and executives, the inefficiencies of their callow self-absorption would be reflected in their measurable performance -- which is why it won't happen. Paying attention and showing a modicum of respect to coworkers and superiors aren't some "old person" quirks like wearing your pants up around your ribcage or shaving with a straight razor, they're essential grease on the gears of any cooperative endeavour.

    3. Re:Ettiquette is a social construct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rudeness CAN be violating the norms. But for you to claim that's all it is shows your total lack of maturity. One of these years you're going to have to grow up.

    4. Re:Ettiquette is a social construct by Ryanrule · · Score: 1
    5. Re:Ettiquette is a social construct by Nephandus · · Score: 1

      Damn, was thinking similarly but didn't quite have the words, and I just ran out of points too.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
  40. An aspect of my trainings by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

    This is actually something I go into quite a bit in my training about business communications.

    Part of it is the push-back with the client. Don't accept meetings where a team of 20 are involved where only 2 people are actually relevant. Only include those who are absoloutely needed. Break up big meetings into smaller ones. Schedule meetings for times when they don't occur smack bang in the middle of developers best development times (you know, just between their first coffee of the day and lunch), let them get absorbed in the code for a decent length of time without pulling them up for air... seriously, they will get more code done in that period than at any other time. In fact, don't bother coders when they are in the zone...

    Agile, scrum, stand up meetings, they have their place, but who should be involved in what aspects and when is a part that is often done wrong.

  41. Several factors by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Kids -- keep the phones on vibrate. If you need to take an urgent call, excuse yourself and step outside but make it brief. Don't be an ass and do it in every meeting. It's distracting and just not considered courteous. You're obviously in the meeting because your involvement is important.

    Old guys -- use the white board when possible. No, we don't want to hear your golfing digressions. There is plenty the rest of us need to get done and watching you fumble with your slideshow is annoying and not very respectful of OUR time. Get to the point. Ask everyone if they understand. If someone isn't getting it, or wants to argue, talk to them after the meeting. The rest of us don't want to referee for the jackass you're sparring with. It's OK if what you had to say only takes 20 minutes. It doesn't mean that what you had to say isn't important, interesting or pertinent.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  42. I'm well outside that group, and I'd find it handy by tgd · · Score: 1

    I mean, it certainly helps in making the list when layoff time comes around ...

  43. The answer of why is easy by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are self-centered and everything is about them, and them only. Common courtesy and respect are gone in that generation..

    Do that around me in the office and you are fired, or at the least off the project. Do it around me personally, don't expect to be a friend.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  44. Job Description by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    A lot of the technical people have job descriptions that have you on call, at least, the entire work day.

    These job descriptions do not list paying attention at unimportant meetings that have nothing to do with you.

    So, of course you read/respond to texts in meetings.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Job Description by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      Then why are you at those meetings? There are better ways to register your disagreement than shitting in the punchbowl.

    2. Re:Job Description by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      You are hired by your employer to do what they say. You know that person who gives you your paycheck?

      Why would you disobey an order from any or your supervisors?

      Your job description requiems that you go to those meetings, and it also requires that you answer text messages while in those meetings. Failure to do either is likely to put you in trouble. You cannot just not show up to required meetings, and you cannot just say "oops, I was in a meeting." when all of sales was without network access for a half hour. Which just happened to overlap with a scheduled video conference call with a multi-million dollar potential client.

      There is nothing contradictory or confusing about those things.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:Job Description by LMariachi · · Score: 2

      I don't know what kind of martinets you work for, but the choice isn't between unquestioning obeisance and telling your boss to fuck off. If supervisors are wasting your time making you go to meetings that have nothing to do with you, they'll appreciate your feedback to that effect, unless they're pathological control freaks and/or idiots.

      Anyway, I don't think the article is talking about answering ZOMG EMERGENCY 911 calls, since it's so obviously expected of you to respond to those no matter where you are.

    4. Re:Job Description by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If supervisors are wasting your time making you go to meetings that have nothing to do with you, they'll appreciate your feedback to that effect, unless they're pathological control freaks and/or idiots.

      I think you may underestimate the number of those that are out there.

  45. College kids evolution into the work force. by substance2003 · · Score: 2

    You know I recall a few years ago about an article stating how kids in college would be texting during classes and tests (yes those critical things you need to do to pass your courses) to the point where teachers had to expel them during tests after more than one warning wasn't enough to get them to stop using their cell phones.

    I'm thinking this is simply the evolution of those same kids now entering the work force. I'm thinking this might be worth following to see if these same kids will continue their social ways in the next few years. Are we going to see them continue to text in their 30-somethings or will they eventually learn better etiquette?

    Heck! Will anything the next generation do irritate them? I imagine by the time they reach their 40s that the new generation will be watching videos (loudly) during meetings or something crazy like that and think it's as appropriate as this group seems to think talking and texting are now.

  46. Uhm, quick question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are 20-somethings closing a multi-million dollar sale? I'm a 20-something, and I know plenty of 20-somethings that are quite mature and capable of closing a multi-million dollar sale, but wouldn't you leave something that important to somebody that is more seasoned, generally-speaking, I would think a 30-something? That's a job for executive positions (or otherwise higher management), and 20-somethings that work in a company that closes multi-million dollar sales with such regularity will rarely be in a sensitive position like that. That's just the way the world still works.

    Bonus: If you do have a 20-something taking point on the closure of this multi-million dollar sale, I would expect they know better. Otherwise, you, the higher management, have made poor decisions, and not necessarily just them.

  47. Just hand the retard his last check. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Problem with dumb ass solved.

    When shit worked this is how shit worked.

  48. Different priorities - who you know vs who you see by ehud42 · · Score: 2

    I suspect (based on a loose study of my family), us older generation believes that the more important people to focus your attention on are the ones in your presence (at the table, in a meeting, etc) and that the person on the other end of the line can wait.

    Our kids however, feel that certain people are more important than others regardless of where they are. Their friends are more important than any boss or family that is nearby.

    And so, my wife and I will let the phone ring / answer machine take the call, ignore text messages / FB notifications, etc during supper.

    And my kids are squirming as if in extreme pain if their phone buzzes and we don't let them immediately see who it's from and if it's a friend let them respond.

    I'm not going to say it's a bad priority shift, but it certainly is an interesting one.

    --
    I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
  49. Like they have jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By business meeting you mean COD and pot party in moms basement right?

  50. Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before the meeting starts, teach the babies what is appropriate and what is not in a meeting. The babies starting to work in companies today have no discretion about anything. They even think that it is ok to have sex on their bosses desk top during and after work.

    1. Re:Rules by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Of course it's NOT okay to have sex on their boss' desk during work, he's are already using it! For sex!

  51. BAD ADVISE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of what the article says to do, THIS is what you do during business meetings:

    "No matter what your age is, you may choose whether or not to bring cell phones into the meeting but you must keep it on silent and, if you answer a call or interact with it in any way, unless it's required for the meeting, then disciplinary action (up to and including termination) will be taken on you! Case closed!"

    FUCK these kids!

    1. Re:BAD ADVISE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, bad advice...

  52. As a Manager... by jimbrooking · · Score: 2

    I became annoyed with an employee who received a LOT of cell phone calls during my infrequent, but necessary meetings with operations managers. Finally I placed a bucket of water by the door and as people entered the room and informed them that, as a security precaution, any cell phone brought into the room had to be placed in the bucket during the meeting. Thereafter, cell phones were left outside and out meetings became shorter and were not interrupted. Yes, I'm over 40, and I still think using a device for talking, texting, surfing or anything else when engaged with one or more live people is inexcusably rude.

  53. Technology advancing faster than etiquette by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We're getting all of these conveniences and our society doesn't have the time to instruct people (kids especially) what is and isn't appropriate behavior. It's not just this. It's people taking snapshots of party goers doing something embarrassing, sexting, phone calls in theaters, etc. I was just at the coffee shop and a woman had one of those bluetooth headsets talking away while at the counter. Now, nothing is more annoying than standing next to someone when you can't tell if they're talking to you, the cashier, herself, or some hidden phone under their hair or on the opposite side of their head.

    However, society hasn't had the time to say "hey this pisses other people off so just because it makes irrelevant 5 minutes conversations convenient, wait until you're in private to use this device."

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:Technology advancing faster than etiquette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having lived in China for the past 5 years, I can't agree with you more.

      Society does not have time to catch up.

      At -least- 3 times a week I encounter an elevator (or lift, for the brits) situation where I am travelling to the lobby and it stops at some point on whatever floor.... guy/girl gets in and starts going down and they are 100% completely dumbfounded. "ehhhhhh?" is exclaimed! Yes, pushing both up and down at the same time will get the elevator to you faster, but not how they are expecting.

      Same with my girlfriend. She is absurdly afraid of dogs and cats. We will get to the elevator which is obviously not moving according to the readouts. It's on the ground floor. I hit up, you know, to go up.... she stands behind me, every time, without fail, to make sure there's not a dog hiding in the elevator. Doesn't understand the technology.

      Cars... driving.... I don't have hard facts here but I have definitely read or heard this... 20 years ago, there were roughly 100,000 cars in China. In -all- of China. Now, there are millions upon millions. The way people drive here is insane. From driving backwards on the highway because I missed my exit to driving on the wrong side of the road because I can't make a U-turn a block down. It's neverending and I don't see it changing since "driving" is so new here. We are generations away from any sort of sensible driving here.

      I've witnessed at least a hundred times where a dude is trying to parallel park and is 100% using the parking lot attendant to direct his flow. Not the onboard rearview camera, not his own will.... staring out the driver side window, staring at the attendant who directs by saying "keep going, turn left, wheels right, stop....". It truly is absurd. Not to mention if I happen to be walking outside in the evening, I will see (at a minimum) 5 cars without their headlights on..... saves fuel, amirite?

  54. Workplace differences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is such a biased study. Where is the comparison to the percentage of workplaces with policies which allow texting or answering calls during a meeting? I know mine does because that shit's critical and the older employees are usually the ones doing it because they have the most important communications.

    Like, what if those two numbers lined up?

  55. this research is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    isn't it more likely that the 20-somethings are in a lower position hence don't have much responsibility with their role in the meeting?

  56. Wait by The+Cat · · Score: 0

    There are 20-somethings with jobs? In America? Where they get paid? With money?

    Bullshit.

  57. most 20-somethings aren't in "business meetings" by locopuyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you look at the actual polling they didn't differentiate people that actually attend business meetings or really define what qualifies as a business meeting.

    If you look at how many 20-somethings are still in school, unemployed, under-employed, or just doing some type of non-office work you'll see that a business meeting is something completely different to them.

    Most people on slashdot probably think of a business meeting as a project manager meeting with some technical people in an office meeting room, but most people aren't working in an office as technical people or project managers. A business meeting for someone that works as a waiter or cook at a restaurant could be the manager taking 5 minutes to talk about upcoming catering events in the morning before you start doing work.

  58. Until they get fired ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Manners matter.

    Bad manners can lose your job, lose friends, and if you piss
    off the wrong people at the wrong time, even get you killed.

    Sooner or later people either end up learning manners or they
    end up only associating with the low-class scum who embrace
    such behavior.

  59. Thinking what's appropriate vs. Doing by edelbrp · · Score: 1

    I found the opposite to be true. The older demographic (who tended to be higher up) were the ones who took more frivolous calls during meetings. The 20 somethings usually left their phones at their desk. I suppose the younger people questioned might say they think that it is OK for the older folks to do that while if you ask the older folks they would agree that it isn't appropriate but they do it anyways.

    I think that can be all well and good for a 'study' except for the last flip comment at the end: "And if you’re an older worker annoyed at what you believe to be rude behavior, just remember, it’s not you – it’s them!" The researchers clearly don't know how to interpret their own data objectively. The study was asking what people thought would be appropriate, not what they actually do!

    1. Re:Thinking what's appropriate vs. Doing by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      The higher ups can get away with it because they are higher up. The peons answering a phone call from their mistresses and stock brokers are likely to piss off their bosses. So not a good thing.

      I was at a company-wide meeting once in which a higher up was giving a presentation. His boss called him on his cell, and he just walked out leaving the entire company except his boss (the CEO) hanging.

      Of course that was ok because the CEO has first priority.

    2. Re:Thinking what's appropriate vs. Doing by edelbrp · · Score: 1

      Exactly. When you ask the 20 somethings if it was appropriate, they would probably say 'sure'. Ask the exec and he'll probably say, 'no, unless there are special circumstances... like mine'.

  60. It depends on what you're doing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're responding to house on fire phone calls or emails, whether real or metaphorical, or it's something that's related to the meeting, then that's fine. If you're playing Angry Birds or posting on Facebook then it's not.

  61. same rule i always apply by MarkH · · Score: 1

    1) I call meeting in which case have screen up and lasts no more than 30 min to get clarity
    2) big 'status meeting' leave when last action with my name on comes on.
    3) get bored or have something to do so walk out.

    got called out on 3 loads of times never actually harmed career.

  62. In related news ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    34% of all new hires who misuse gadgets in meetings will never advance beyond their current status. By paying attention to agenda items that may be tangential to their immediate concerns, they may learn things about the business that will be essential to advancement.

  63. Considering most business meetings are useless ... by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    I dont see much harm in reading texts (calls is a different topic as it disturbs the other people)

  64. Sending A Message by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    I've always wanted a button I could push to make my phone ring during an interview. That way instead of glancing meaningfully at my watch if I don't like how it's going, I could have my phone ring, answer it and say "Hello? I'm in an interview! No, it's crap! They're using visual source safe and the team members average 80 hours a week! I'm pretty sure he's going to offer me under market, too!"

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Sending A Message by xorsyst · · Score: 1

      There's an app for that, although it works on a time delay rather than a button press.

      --
      Get free bitcoins: http://freebitco.in
  65. It IS ok at my work by master_kaos · · Score: 1

    Ok maybe not actually taking the phone call IN the meeting room, but we are allowed to excuse ourselves, are allowed to answer texts and emails .. as long as all of the above are work related but only in meetings that are a) not critical, and b) internal meeting (i.e not with clients) and c) you are not directly involved at that time.

    Sometimes you need to be in that 1 hour long meeting even though you only directly involved in 5 minutes of it, sometimes you just need to be aware of what is going on, but our boss realizes that we are losing a bunch of productivity, so if we can answer texts/emails from clients/other coworkers without disturbing other people then so be it. Why would other people get disturbed if I am typing out an email on my phone?

  66. Robert A. Heinlein on Dying Cultures by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 2

    "Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms such as you have named... but a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot. [...] This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. Look for it. Study it. Friday, it is too late to save this culture... this worldwide culture, not just the freak show here in California. Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile; we must again have books, of stable inks and resistant paper. But that may not be enough. The reservoir for the next renaissance may have to come from beyond the sky."
    ~Robert A. Heinlein, from the novel Friday

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  67. Knock it off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first time I was told to knock it off in a meeting scared that social behavior right out of me. This is a learning moment - a stiff, public shaming for being out of line and they won't do it again or they'll be fired. That crap would fly maybe once before said 20-something was looking for work @ the local fast food joint.

  68. 20-Somethings Think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh if only that were true!

  69. Who are these scrubs? by thatkid_2002 · · Score: 1

    They should be fired, or have their pay cut.

    Sincerely, a 22 year old.

    Though, maybe there is a case for just checking notifications. I have a Pebble so these come through on to the watch where it is silent and can be discretely checked. The problem with the Pebble is that if you're caught looking it may appear as though you're rudely looking at the time and thinking "when will this fucking asshole stop talking?". A device such as Google Glass would be the victimless crime in this case (maybe, I have never actually seen one) - but I'm reluctant to be in the presence of somebody who is wearing one (a clearly visible physical shutter for the camera is in dire need!).

  70. even in interviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I interviewed a guy in his mid-20s last week, on top of saying he's a brony, he pulls out his phone and answers it in the middle of the interview.

    He said it was his brother calling, so i asked him for the phone and he handed it over. I said to the kid calling "how would you feel if you cost your brother this job by calling him right now?"

    Needless to say, Sparkles Sunshine didn't get the job.

  71. Re:most 20-somethings aren't in "business meetings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you look at the actual polling they didn't differentiate people that actually attend business meetings or really define what qualifies as a business meeting.

    If you look at how many 20-somethings are still in school, unemployed, under-employed, or just doing some type of non-office work you'll see that a business meeting is something completely different to them.

    Did someone say "inter-divisional summit"?

    The words are business meeting. If a high-school or college graduate doesn't have at least a basic grasp of those two words and how to apply common-sense etiquette when 2 or more people walk into a room to communicate, then I have little patience trying to explain it to them. Their parents should be brought into the room and bitch-slapped for fucking up that hard.

    A handshake has never gone out of style, no matter how many forms of communication we've invented. I suppose no 20-something ever thought that it was perhaps them refusing to better understand common business etiquette that likely keeps them unemployed or under-employed?

    (Psst. I have ZERO tolerance for rude manners. I'm not old. We're still out there. Learn common courtesy)

  72. The Delicious Hypocrisy of the Mid-20 by fygment · · Score: 1

    They are all about 'respect' ... being directed towards themselves that is. Giving respect just isn't on the radar. Phone/text in a meeting is dis-respect of all others at the meeting, esp. the person(s) being tuned out during the call/text.

    Mind you, it isn't just the 20-somethings. Note that the stats show the mind set is present in all age groups.

    Blame the Boomers. They taught the world that nothing deserves respect; tear down the establishment, sod religion, nothing but the 'self' matters. And that attitude prevails in everything, it permeates advertising, sports, entertainment ... except, you might think, Disney with its heavy 'family is number one' message. But that message is simply treating the family as a bigger 'self', so it's all the same.

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  73. You're fired! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I'm paying you to take care of my child or my elderly parents, you will not be texting while you are taking care of them. If the kids are asleep, sure. If granny's asleep, that's the time you can use your cell phone and send and receive text messages. I can't believe the caretakers I see (I know they're caretakers because they're usually wearing nursing scrubs) who are yapping on their cell phones or texting madly while they sit right next to the person they're being paid to care for, and they don't interact with the person at all. I dropped a dime once because I observed a severely disabled child (in a wheelchair and suffering from what looked like brain damage) was choking on his own spit, screeching and trying to get his aide's attention, and she was too busy talking on her phone to even reach over to wipe the spit off his face, with the towel that was already pinned to his shirt collar. I called the transportation service they were using and left a message with the office manager to pass on to the parents of the child.

  74. not just the kids with bad manners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I almost forgot to add, the problems I have with well-paid employees thinking it's okay to talk and text all day long are NOT just with twenty-somethings. The behavior is not unique to their age-group.

  75. Old people don't realise times have changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm so glad most of our staff are under 30 and that I'm in a position where I get to decide who joins. This article just further cements for me not to hire over 35s since all they ever do is bitch about how people don't conform to the way they've worked for the last 20 years instead of adapt themselves into a new environment.

    The few people that we have hired over 35 we've only had to fire later on because "that's not how they're used to working" therefore we must change, ugh..

    Fact is meetings are a giant unproductive wastes of time. If you're going to make everyone join into one where only a few key people are taking part then at least have the professional courtesy to let people get on with other things in the background while listening to you.

  76. Thin skinned meeting nazis. Get over yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are responsible for mission critical systems and cannot check your emails/ business related texts during a meeting then the business/boss should be ready to take the heat when your exchange server/database/core switch/server/PBX goes down. We are provided these devices to increase productivity and communication. Yes I think it is disrespectful to play with a device for an entire meeting but really who does that? If you can get by without paying attention the whole time you obviously aren't a required participant and cannot be a beneficial participant to the subject you are meeting on. If I receive a message during a meeting I will check the sender and if it is my monitoring system I will read it because it is my job.

  77. Old... young... stupid isn't age dependent by zodwallopp · · Score: 1

    I see plenty of senior staff members, well and truly over-the-hill types, who are just as bad about using their phones in meetings. 20 somethings are going to take their lead on how to act in a meeting from their peers. If you clearly set an example of what is OK and not OK in a meeting, this isn't a problem but many Managers don't bother to manage. Do yourself a favor and don't bring your phone into a meeting, at all. If you really MUST be connected, weight what is more important to your personal reputation at that moment. Disrupting the meeting and taking a communication, or realizing part of your job is to be fully committed to the place you're at.