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HealthCare.gov: What Went Wrong?

New submitter codeusirae writes "An initial round of criticism focused on how many files the browser was being forced to download just to access the site, per an article at Reuters. A thread at Reddit appeared and was filled with analyses of the code. But closer looks by others have teased out deeper, more systematic issues."

77 of 400 comments (clear)

  1. On Further Examination by dale.furno · · Score: 5, Informative

    This article is dated oct 8. I had assumed it would be more recent.

    1. Re:On Further Examination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You do know you're on Slashdot, right? An article from 10/8 is practically superluminal for these guys.

    2. Re:On Further Examination by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This article is dated oct 8. I had assumed it would be more recent.

      Obligatory: You must be new here...

      In other news, it's still a relevant and current event; Just because something's a month old doesn't mean it might as well have been written on stone tablets. I know the iThingie generation has the attention span of... oh who am I kidding, they didn't even finish reading the summary let alone the comments. :) But more seriously, it's pretty clear at this point the problem isn't because of the technology, but rather that the implimentation was divided up into two teams without much regard for communication between the two, or management oversight.

      The fact is, what happened with ObamaCare happens in government IT all the time. Too many chefs, not enough cooks. When the dust settles we will undoubtedly discover that the true cause of failure was not in IT, or even the contractors, who I am sure met their contractual obligations, but rather that it was setup for failure by political interests who are right now getting a lot of play over its failure, without being identified as the cause. They will undoubtedly have plausible deniability of the "Well, I was sure this wouldn't happen because of my inserting language into the bill requiring process xyzzy be followed instead of yzzyx!" ... and a half-dozen co-conspirators all did similar to structure it in such a way that there was no other possible outcome than failure.

      Failure like this requires planning; You can't accidentally crash and burn this badly. And what we're going to find when we do the autopsy is that a few dozen people conspired to create the conditions necessary for it to fail, but we'll never be able to prove the conspiracy, and because the blame will be on this group of individuals, each of whom can legitimately claim their own contribution shouldn't/couldn't have caused the failure, nobody will be held accountable.

      Except of course the people who implimented it, and the guy who's name was on the proposal.

      Just like every private sector IT project that blows up.

      --
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    3. Re:On Further Examination by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Girl - you write some pretty smart, insightful comments from time to time. But your logic is missing a few cogs here.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:On Further Examination by garyebickford · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I recall a study from several years ago (10 years? possibly) that showed the probability of failure increased with the size (budget) of the project. Above about $5 million in then-dollars the probability was near 100%. As I recall failure was defined as either technical failure, or budget overruns going so high the project was cancelled. Of course, I have no citation. That would be too easy. :)

      However, I did search for "Probability of Software Project Failure", and got some fascinating results. This is one of them: Statistics over IT projects failure rate - a summary review of several of the most definitive studies over the last 20 years. And this one: Healthcare.gov website 'didn't have a chance in hell' notes that:

      The Standish Group, which has a database of some 50,000 development projects, looked at the outcomes of multimillion dollar development projects and ran the numbers for Computerworld.

      Of 3,555 projects from 2003 to 2012 that had labor costs of at least $10 million, only 6.4% were successful. The Standish data showed that 52% of the large projects were "challenged," meaning they were over budget, behind schedule or didn't meet user expectations. The remaining 41.4% were failures -- they were either abandoned or started anew from scratch.

      And I suppose this: £12bn NHS computer system is scrapped... and it's all YOUR money that Labour poured down the drain fits into this model pretty well. (Regardless of one's opinion about the Daily Mail.)

      --
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    5. Re:On Further Examination by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I insist that Obamacare's worst enemies are the people who are working hardest to make it work. Incompetent lackwits wrote the specs, hired more incompetent lackwits to build the site, and failed to test anything. Had Obama and his supporters actually been competent, they could have at least made the site work. Had they been smart enough to hire competent contractors, they could have made the site work. Bottom line, we have a bunch of idiots who can't even get a web site up and running, but maintain that they will be competent to oversee life and death decisions made hundreds of thousands of times every single day throughout the nation.

      I can't help but wonder if Obama supporters are colluding with Obama detractors.

      There's no need to ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

      Take any random large-size public or private IT project. Odds are that it will be a disaster.

  2. Here is a thought.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the Govt can design and implement a billion+ dollar data storage center for the NSA but can't deploy a website to allow people to sign up for insurance?

    1. Re:Here is a thought.. by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      Who says the storage center is implemented well?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:Here is a thought.. by Teancum · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the Govt can design and implement a billion+ dollar data storage center for the NSA but can't deploy a website to allow people to sign up for insurance?

      At least we can be comforted by the fact that the NSA data center is likely operated at the same levels of efficiency and competency.

    3. Re:Here is a thought.. by geoskd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the Govt can design and implement a billion+ dollar data storage center for the NSA but can't deploy a website to allow people to sign up for insurance?

      That's because one was designed by a bunch of guys on a mission, with an exceptionally strong feeling of patriotism and righteousness with practically no oversight by congress. The other was done by the lowest bidders (largely not even American citizens), built on a framework that was made practically impossible to implement by a meddlesome and conflicted congress.

      --
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    4. Re:Here is a thought.. by khasim · · Score: 2

      Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the Govt can design and implement a billion+ dollar data storage center for the NSA but can't deploy a website to allow people to sign up for insurance?

      Nope. Because it is always possible to spend MORE money on a project in an attempt to get X results.

      The trick is to get X results with the lowest cost. Someone who spends $1,000 on a loaf of bread may not be the best person so send grocery shopping. And that loaf of bread may not be worth $1,000. And when the project was making bologna sandwiches for lunch ...

      For example, the TSA has a huge annual budget. Yet they've never caught a single terrorist.

    5. Re:Here is a thought.. by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      Eh.. cheap bidder, high bidder, both are going to scrimp. You have to make your requirements clear and stick to them and have good oversight. I don't think that's what happened with the health care web site, though. There just wasn't enough time to do it right. I'm not sure they had enough time to understand the requirements.

      Regardless, there's no evidence either way on the data center. They might have great system. They might have a mediocre system propped by insane hardware investment. They might have a shitty system that barely works despite insane hardware investment. They're not really telling us what they're storing or how they're accessing it. The whole thing might be one giant write-only memory farm that they're planning on figuring out how to access later.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    6. Re:Here is a thought.. by mi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It is not, actually:

      The NSA’s new data-storage center in Utah has suffered a series of mysterious meltdowns in the past year.

      Officials told the Wall Street Journal that 10 fiery explosions, known as arc-fault failures, have ripped apart machinery, melted metal and destroyed circuits. The repeated meltdowns have delayed the opening of the one-million square foot facility by 12 months.

      But the Anonymous GP may be right suspecting, the failure is deliberate... Obama's personal favorite healthcare model — as well as that of the rest of the Left — is "single-payer" (a.k.a. "Medicare for all"). Perhaps, it was calculated by our benevolent and sophisticated Democratic overlords, that the failure of Obamacare will make introducing the outright Socialist construct more palatable to the electorate.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    7. Re:Here is a thought.. by Deluvianvortex · · Score: 2

      No, the house shut down the govt for 3 weeks and then a week before the site goes live (with no work having been done on it during the shutdown) it comes back. Deadline passes and of course the site isn't ready. Republicans, eager to confuse their constituents over the fact they stalled the government, complain about the site not being ready. Dumbasses like you believe them, and blame Obama.

    8. Re:Here is a thought.. by bmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Citing anne coulter as a reference

      Yeah, and we're done here.

      --
      BMO

    9. Re:Here is a thought.. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      Dude. The NSA has the same mission as most other government agencies. To protect the GOVERNMENT. If and when protecting the country and it's citizens is convenient, they will do so. But the MISSION is to protect GOVERNMENT!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    10. Re:Here is a thought.. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Informative

      George W. Bush was — a fairly successful — governor (Executive) of a major State.

      Well... it's Texas. From Wikipedia:

      Compared to the governors of other U.S. states, the governorship of Texas is a fairly weak office. The Lieutenant Governor of Texas, who presides over the state Senate, is considered a more powerful political figure, being able to exercise greater personal prerogatives.

      And, according to this reference, the Texas legislature only meets every two years for 140 days, so how fucking busy could the Governor actually be, except for executing people and fund raising.

      And, as far as Texas itself goes, according to The Texas Observer, The Texas Legislative Group produced a study saying:

      How’s Texas doing? Not so great: The state ranks 50th in high school graduation rate, first in amount of carbon emissions, first in hazardous waste produced, last in voter turnout, first in percentage of people without health insurance, and second in percentage of uninsured kids.

      So, even ignoring their tendency to push Creationism over Science in their school curriculum, Texas is certainly a big state, but "major" is questionable - unless you mean major failure... But, if that's what the people want... you can't argue with stupid.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    11. Re:Here is a thought.. by causality · · Score: 2

      For example, the TSA has a huge annual budget. Yet they've never caught a single terrorist.

      The purpose of the TSA is to get Americans (even more) used to the idea that government agents can search you whenever they deem it necessary, without a warrant. Sure, a long time ago some old white men wrote a 4th Amendment saying they can't do that, yeah sure, but by stepping into the airport you automatically agreed to waive your inalienable right, EULA-style. So you see it's all legitimate and there's nothing to see here.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    12. Re:Here is a thought.. by gtall · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's not a valid argument for this. The main problem is the complexity of getting all the insurance companies coordinated. Kneecap those bozos and the problem becomes much easier.

      Yes, yes, I know the argument. Government Death Panels. In the insurance industry, they are called Actuaries. See what a change in name can do even if they do the same job?

    13. Re:Here is a thought.. by thunderclap · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You mean the one in utah? http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304441404579119490744478398 Meltdowns Hobble NSA Data Center http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/10/08/2-Billion-NSA-Spy-Center-Going-Flames http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2013/10/08/fiery-explosions-rock-nsa-data-center.html 10 fiery explosions, known as arc-fault failures, have ripped apart machinery, melted metal and destroyed circuits. No because the govt couldn't design and implement a billion dollar data storage center. they could show what happen when you have an arc-fault failure. Arc Flash is the result of a rapid release of energy due to an arcing fault between a phase bus bar and another phase bus bar, neutral or a ground. During an arc fault the air is the conductor. Arc faults are generally limited to systems where the bus voltage is in excess of 120 volts. Lower voltage levels normally will not sustain an arc. An arc fault is similar to the arc obtained during electric welding and the fault has to be manually started by something creating the path of conduction or a failure such as a breakdown in insulation. So why did we except anything less from the website?

    14. Re:Here is a thought.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are swallowing a line of bullshit propaganda rather uncritically.

      Texas is in fact doing quite well. As Rick Perry bragged, one-third of all jobs created in the whole USA were created in Texas, which doesn't have anywhere near one-third of the population of the whole USA.

      http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/may/09/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-texas-accounted-33-percent-nations/

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carnegie-corporation-of-new-york/texas-immigrants-and-econ_b_3745379.html

      So a liberal newspaper might be looking for complaints about Texas ("first in the amount of carbon emissions") but the unemployment rate is significantly below the rate of the USA. Business is doing better and individuals are doing better compared to the rest of the USA.

      http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/04/texas-lost-jobs-in-march-unemployment-rate-remains-the-same-at-6-4-percent.html/

      how fucking busy could the Governor actually be, except for executing people and fund raising.

      Who cares? Texas is doing well as a state. Maybe the USA would do better if the President did less stuff. Let's try it!

    15. Re:Here is a thought.. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 3, Informative

      The real question is, if they so badly mismanage something so common and widely implemented elsewhere as one Web site, why should they be trusted with anything more complex?

      You mean like Medicare (single-payer) or the VA (government-run?) Both have high satisfaction ratings.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    16. Re:Here is a thought.. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > You mean like Medicare (single-payer) or the VA (government-run?) Both have high satisfaction ratings.

      You must be joking? The VA with high satisfaction ratings? And Medicare is an insurer of LAST RESORT, of course people are going to at least appreciate that aspect of it. It's that or NOTHING.

      No, I am not joking:

      http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=14560
      http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2009/May/Elderly-Medicare-Beneficiaries-Give-Their-Coverage-Higher-Ratings.aspx

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    17. Re:Here is a thought.. by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Informative

      Jumping on the first flimsy excuse to dismiss the argument is never going to convince anyone who didn't already agree with you. I for one was hoping you would explain why Obama's plan was similar (or maybe, effectively identical) to Romney's. The calmer, more rational person at least provided something to read that I can critically analyze regardless of who's name is on it.

      Not sure about BMO's response, but I'll give mine.

      When I compare Romney's plans and Obama's plans, I'd say most of the theory is the same. The intention and the general guidelines have a huge overlap, just a small amount of difference. I'll go over the differences I saw between them down below. When I talk calmly and rationally with people about the actual details (not the hyperbole) of the law, they also tend to agree with almost everything. My frustration is that when people start saying "I hate Obamacare", when pressed for what SPECIFICALLY they don't like, they tend to not have answers.

      Really, look at the major points. With a little calm and careful debate we can see why these are mostly good ideas, and even if you don't agree with a specific point we can likely debate it to the point where you can at least understand why it is good at a societal level if not an individual level.

      • *Drug patents expire quicker, only 12 years until generics in many cases
      • *Guaranteed medical insurance coverage for minors and young adults starting on their own
      • *Additional guarantees for the elderly, terminally ill, and chronically ill who currently struggle to receive health care under the earlier policy
      • *Additional accountability for medical facilities with high re-admittance or other significant documented problems
      • *Minimum standards of insurance policies to avoid the near-worthless insurance some companies were providing
      • *Requirements that plans include a wide range of options, including non-profit plans and plans that deny abortions, to help people with both religious concerns and with profit-motive concerns.
      • *Caps on the profit margins of insurance and also certain other medical companies (20% or 15% depending on factors)
      • *Insurers cannot discriminate based on on gender or pre-existing conditions
      • *Chronic conditions must be covered under insurance; (it is wrong to punish people just because they had a bad roll on life's dice, it is bad enough they need to live with the chronic condition, be it anything from a mental illness to cancer or Alzheimer's or whatever. Someday you may get your own bad roll of the dice.)
      • *Congress and government workers must shift to insurance plans on the exchanges rather than the high-end plan they were enjoying
      • *Restaurant chains required to post calorie counts (When this came into effect hundreds of restaurants modified their recipes.)
      • *An individual mandate coupled with guaranteed issuance requirements and subsidies for those who make up to 4x the poverty line. (Both Romney's plan and Obama's plan included this, most experts agree is a good thing, it is similar in nature to requirements in most other nations, in the short term it has a cost but in the long term everyone benefits. It is a rather surprising talking point that it comes up so much in the news.)

      The devil is in the details of course, but when arguing any specific point it is easy to get consensus that we should do SOMETHING even if there is some disagreement of the specifics.

      The biggest difference between the two is that Romney's plan was building a framework for others to implement rather than the federal government doing everything and forcing it on others. Romney's plan had an individual mandate for catastrophic coverage only, not for general insurance. Romney's plan had a cost that was initially nearly budget-neutral (estimated at $100M which is fairly small relative to the size of a budget) with a long term reduction in cost, compared to the federal plan that has a roughly $500B init

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    18. Re:Here is a thought.. by stenvar · · Score: 2

      But for a lot of work the cheapest bidder is mandated by law.

      Yes, because otherwise we'd simply be wasting even more money for the same poor quality. Either the government needs to develop things like healthcare.gov in-house, with government employees, or it needs to leave it entirely to the market. Outsourcing such things doesn't work; it just amounts to massive corruption followed by massive blame shifting.

    19. Re:Here is a thought.. by Draknor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some people object to the concept of the government being the final arbitrator of life and death. If an insurance company refuses to cover something, I can attempt to get funding elsewhere. When the government does so, I have little to no options left- even if it is to have the hospital perform the procedure and take the charges off as part of the charity work needed to keep their tax exempt status which does happen all the time.

      Wait, what? So when an insurance company denies you a service, you can "attempt to get funding elsewhere"? Like where, pray-tell? You basically have 4 options:
      1. Appeal the denial & hope you can get them to cover it anyway
      2. Pay the cost of the procedure in full and figure out how to cover it (debt, fundraiser, etc)
      3. Negotiate with the hospital for a self-pay discount or charity care
      4. Don't get the procedure.

      Those are the same 4 options you have if your plan is provided by the government, and that gov't plan doesn't cover the procedure.

      The simple fact of health care is, we can't afford to do all the procedures, for all the people, all the time. We have finite resources - so they HAVE to be allocated. And someone HAS to decide HOW they are allocated, which means someone has to say "we will pay for this" and "we won't pay for that". That's the reality - no getting around it. What "this" and "that" are -- plenty of room for reasonable debate there, with parameters for profitability, ethics & morality, etc.

      Personally, the biggest problem that I see with our current system (which is starting to change), is we don't have "health care", we have "disease care". Your doctor is paid to do services for you, not for keeping you healthy. And the impression I get is that many patients are not "partners" in their own health -- they have a problem, they want to go to a doctor and have that problem fixed, and not have to change themselves. "I don't want to change my diet & lifestyle - just give me a pill to pop to make it all better." I think if doctors were reimbursed for keeping you healthy, and patients had a shared stake in that (besides the obvious benefit of living longer, healthier lives), we would have a very different healthcare system (and probably much, much more effective & economical).

    20. Re:Here is a thought.. by khallow · · Score: 2

      That's a huge observation. Another is that the Obamacare insurance increases the isolation of the consumer of health care from the cost of their health care. For example, if I were getting individual health insurance on Healthcare.gov, I would qualify for the subsidy. That means that I can pay a fixed amount of my salary (a bit over 5% for the "silver" plan) for health insurance such that no matter how much health care costs climb, my total health care costs are capped. That's nice until you realize a) it creates a price inflation system like student loans did for higher education price inflation, and b) somebody pays for that.

      When these subsidies grow big enough to threaten funding for basic services like road systems, national defense, and the other entitlements that the US has, then something will be done. Inflation isn't going to work because the costs will outpace inflation no matter how much you inflate. But dumping people on Medicare/Medicaid (which I think will turn into another fine disaster as it caps prices of health care given under the Medi* system, but not the cost of health care) or restricting their access to medical care (say via the "death panels") would.

    21. Re:Here is a thought.. by Laxori666 · · Score: 2

      The biggest problem is that they've managed to conflate "health insurance" with "managed health care". Obamacare is not a health insurance program. It's a managed health care program.

      Insurance is very simply a way to redistribute risk. Let's say there's a 1% chance per year of having to undergo an operation that costs $10,000. A hypothetical "perfect insurance" policy would not change the expected amount I have to pay per year at all - it would cost exactly $100/year. That way, if I don't pay insurance, I have a 1% chance of paying $10,000 - expected cost = $100 - and if I do pay insurance, I have a 100% chance of paying $100 - expected cost = $100. The reason to get the insurance is simply to lower variance, or volatility - I'd prefer to pay $100 for sure than to take a chance and have to pay $10,000, which I might not be able to cover.

      Of course no one will offer that policy because they wouldn't make any money. So maybe they will charge $105 per year for the policy. This way they make $5 per year per customer. Of course they could try to offer $200 or $300/year for the policy. That way they'd make bucketloads of money and people might still pay depending on how they value lower volatility. Of course with such a dead-simple calculation, competition would rapidly bring the price pretty close to $100 + minimal cost of bookkeeping + some profit.

      With that in mind, it's clear that a lot of the bullet points you listed don't make any sense in terms of this being an insurance policy. Note that I contend that the problem is not with the insurance, but comes from something much deeper, and this is an attempt to patch over the symptoms but not address the causes.

      Insurers cannot discriminate based on on gender or pre-existing conditions Pre-existing conditions absolutely affect the probabilities of needing treatment. If there's an 80% chance that I'll need that $10,000/year operation, that insurance policy should cost $8,000. If you make it illegal to change your pricing based on actual facts that affect your business, then the price for the general population has to go up. I'm not sure about gender but it seems it would affect some things too, e.g. probability of getting breast cancer and probability of getting prostate cancer.
      Additional guarantees for the elderly, terminally ill, and chronically ill who currently struggle to receive health care under the earlier policy. Again all these things affect the probabilities which dictate the pricing. Of course, there could be an insurance policy where you get the insurance for 30 years, let's say, paying a pre-determined rate, such that even if you do get terminally or chronically ill they will continue to pay your now-increased medical expenses. Those costs could be factored into the probabilities such that it still ends up being profitable (i.e. people will do it). In this case insuring more long-term against long-term illness. But if you don't have any insurance, then you become terminally ill, it's unreasonable to expect someone to just pay for most of your medical expenses.
      Chronic conditions must be covered under insurance; (it is wrong to punish people just because they had a bad roll on life's dice, it is bad enough they need to live with the chronic condition, be it anything from a mental illness to cancer or Alzheimer's or whatever. Someday you may get your own bad roll of the dice.) See previous point.

      The following would be more general free-market concerns, not specific to any one industry:
      Guaranteed medical insurance coverage for minors and young adults starting on their own. Not sure what guaranteed means. Should be up to the insurer whether they want to sell insurance to you.
      Minimum standards of insurance policies to avoid the near-worthless insurance some companies were providing Again this is up to the companies. If people are purchasing near-worthless insurance then that's on them. Caps on the profit margins of insurance and also certain other medical co

    22. Re:Here is a thought.. by tomtomtom · · Score: 2

      As an outsider, the political problem with Obamacare is obvious - it simply overpromised massively. Not surprisingly, it turns out that many people will have to pay a bit (and in a large number of cases a lot) more so that other people can pay a lot less and/or get a lot more out of the system - that's just how the maths works out. So Obamacare is, and always was, fundamentally a political deal between generations and between classes about who pays for what - but that was never made clear enough at the time, in my opinion because the Obama administration was far too worried about its short-term poll ratings and was (from what I could tell at the time) obsessed with the law being seen to be "popular" at the time it was passed.

      I suspect this is where Romney's and Obama's proposals differed most - in the rhetroric which would have been attached to a Romney-led reform. Because Romney would have been coming from a position of political strength (Democrats would have been in favour of any kind of reform in the direction he proposed), he could have afforded to make the "grand argument" without taking much risk; whereas for Obama the risks were greater, hence he did not.

      The problem the administration now have is that because noone was straight about how this would work at the time, a lot of people feel that what is now happening was never the political bargain that was entered in to. As a consequence, they feel that they and their fellow voters (including, crucially, those who were in favour at the time) were taken advantage of. Many of this group would likely have grudgingly supported the actual deal as a case where effectively their "side" was outvoted if it was concluded more openly at the time - but the way the changes were marketed leaves them feeling like the administration lied to people to get the law passed.

      This leaves the administration with a problem which cannot be solved in any satisfying way without simply repealing Obamacare and starting again after a fresh election with a fresh president. As this is unlikely to happen I suspect the programme will be unpopular for many years to come and get blamed for all sorts of ills, some of which will be its fault but many of which will not.

  3. So basically by Horshu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The web site turned out like every other v1 web app that gets rushed out to an externally-set deadline?

  4. I had a problem with the Inforworld site by rs79 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It was slow to load, I couldn't sign up, my browser hung waiting on lost connections with the too many other files it was trying to download and there seem to be server sync problems with the back end databases.

    In other words it acts like PayPal, Google, Facebook and Slashdot.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  5. Systemic by ErnoWindt · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not "systematic."

  6. then why did some states succeed? by mbkennel · · Score: 2


    Some states succeeded with their websites. The federal government succeeded with its employee insurance marketplace which has much wider coverage.
    http://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/

    Republicans refused to allow people onto this plan, or to buy into Medicare.

    ACA is not designed to fail intentionally but it probably will because it only addresses one part of a profit-making system. There is no competitive substitutability or clarity on prices (not just costs!). Ever try to find out how much some thing will cost at office X vs Y, with insurance? It's astonishingly difficult. I suspect this is intentional.

    Single-payer appears to be empirically more successful for medicine (and few other goods and services).

    1. Re:then why did some states succeed? by game+kid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By:

      1. refusing to even allow the bill to come up for debate until it gets just the desired amount of crossed-out lines, ideological additions, arcane language, and pork behind closed subcommittee doors; and
      2. voting against it anyway once it's finally allowed on the floor.
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    2. Re:then why did some states succeed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yea, check this out.

      Other than being the opposite of what you claim, all the kickbacks and bribes were for DNC votes. Then we can add on the ONLY part the GOP had a hand in writing was an amendment from Ghram where the Congress would be required to purchase and get their healthcare from the exchanges, which Obama override with executive order so they can be exempted from the prices by subsidies. Yep, Congress gets a 75% subsidy on their costs at $172K salary, while you don't get a subsidy if your income is over $46k, so the ONLY part the GOP had anything to do with was removed after it was signed into law without passing another law.

      So, yea everything you say is correct, hoever it is provable that it was the DNC that did what you calim. Don't worry, you are a hypocrite so you will be fine with all those tricks since it is "your side" doing it.

    3. Re:then why did some states succeed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Turns out a lot of decisions in Congress are made in these things called Committees, not just on the floor votes.

      I know, difficult to comprehend, but Republicans participated in those debates and conferences. I know, their amnesia caused them to forget about it, which is why they act like there wasn't any discussion on it, but don't pretend it didn't happen.

  7. A distraction by ChuckT00 · · Score: 2

    Healthcare.gov is merely a distraction from Obamacare, also Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Sooner or later the website will be fixed and many will think that the mission has been accomplished. It is obvious that Affordable Care Act is not really Affordable for the middle class, it is merely a new additional tax for most of the working people, who were mostly silent through the process. Affordable Care Act does little to employ free market principles and to combat the true problem: HealthCare costs.

    1. Re:A distraction by game+kid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "free market principles" won't help here. On the contrary, just think of the money that would go into actual health care if the government came in guns-ablaze and forcefully said "no, United Health Care, you can't treat your customers like the deepest turd of a batch of untreated sewer sludge", or "no, big drugmaker, you can't throw millions of dollars on advertising niche products like fucking Restasis all over primetime tv instead of putting the money toward cutting the costs of life-saving meds".

      Those are two cases where I'd actually be elated to see the NSA and TSA put into use: snoop on the moneyed fuckers involved and No-Fly 'em as soon as it's clear they want to take anything that resembles a business trip to plan their next splurge.

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  8. Did they REALLY expect nothing to go wrong? by linebackn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Regardless of "what went wrong", you know that the higher ups will just fire some peons, give themselves some big bonuses, and call it a day.

    But the BIGGER question I don't see anybody asking, is why is there no apparent fall back or concession to delay requirements due to the problems? ANY significantly complicated computer system can reasonably be expected to encounter problems at deployment. And despite what the talking, drooling, blathering heads on TV seem to think, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to test a system like this 100.000000000000% against real world scenarios. There will be glitches, there will be people who can't use the systems, there will be all sorts of "people problems" that no technology can fix. They should have been ready with other non webby ways to get people taken care of, and prepared to delay the needs for all of this if they could not get everyone taken care of in time.

    1. Re:Did they REALLY expect nothing to go wrong? by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 2

      No, the question is, "If they signed a contract to provide X, and did not provide X, why did they get paid?"

      --
      Not a sentence!
  9. Re:bitch and moan by blue+trane · · Score: 2

    Area man upset that govt is open also upset that govt website is slow!

  10. They had 55 contractors. Duh. by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's hard enough to work with one spotty vendor, let alone 55. That number, 55, represents somewhere between 55 and 55-squared lines of possibly iffy communication between possibly iffy organizations. When I first heard that healthcare.gov had 55 contractors working on it, I was surprised that the damn thing ran at all.

  11. Re:bitch and moan by bmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All they do is sabotage everyone else's work

    Pretty much. It's the "starve the beast" philosophy and strategy. Sabotage something, then point out how it doesn't work, and then say "well, duh, because all government is evil."

    It's their raison d'etre and since the Republicans are so invested in it after 30 (40?) years, without it they would have an existential crisis that would end in the same fate as the Whigs.

    --
    BMO

  12. simple reason that a complex system fails by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    it's simple: they didn't do enough testing and bug fixing. there should have been at least 6 months of testing and debugging to get this system working well. the information i found was that 248 people were able to sign up on the first day. so it works... kind of. there were bugs like spouses sometimes ending up being filed as children.

    it's obviously a complex system but i take the 80m lines of code number with a grain of salt because i'm sure that includes all the libraries they (re)used too and maybe even an entire JVM. as such, it's probably all in house crap for each and every contractor, 55 if i remember correctly. there was obviously lazy coding involved to get that much bloat. there could be a swath of libs included that arent even used but were thrown in there "just in case i need it".

    i hope the companies helping them gut the use of most proprietary libs because they are an easy way to get terrible bugs and gaping security holes. i also hope they move to a unified OO language to get a handle on this feral system. however, if i find out that google convinced them to rewrote it all in Go, i'll just cry.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:simple reason that a complex system fails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or they could call it a 'beta' and run it for 10 years like Google.

  13. Splat Programming by wdhowellsr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The ObamaCare web site is an example of Splat Programming. What is Splat Programming? Cut and paste from every where, run once and move on if it appears to even marginally work, and don't think very long about method or variable names. The most important part about Splat Programming is that you don't try to combine css or js files but rather just reference them individually via CDN and only change function name or variables that conflict. Most importantly, do not do any loading, scaling or security testing especially if you know that the test will fail.

    The other part is Government Projects. You don't have to worry about errors and omissions because the standard government contracts do not hold the contractor liable if the final result is approved. Finally, unlike commercial projects, there is an infinite amount of money available to pay for years of bug fixes and upgrades.

    Thankfully this site only effects a small percentage of people so there is really no cause for alarm.:)

  14. government spending in action by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Typical of what happens when an organization is too used to spending other people's money. It's ike a 16yo girl's runaway spending habits with daddy's credit card...and she's got him by the balls, too, along with her mother.

    1. Re:government spending in action by plopez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The number of large failed private sector IT projects makes this look like a drop in the bucket.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  15. What went wrong? by Chas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First and worst, politicians were involved. Everything else pretty much is a cascade effect off that.
    Second, cronyism.
    Third, you had a bunch of non-technical people setting up moving goalposts for the technical people to hit, with regard to the technical specs of the site.
    Fourth, distinct lack of firm, single-message communication to the technical teams with regards to whether the project was or was not going forward.

    I could go on and on about all the fuckups with regard to this. But I'd just piss off a bunch of people who aren't worth my time.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  16. Conspiracy-Theory-Fu by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe it's the fault of libertarians that seem to make up a significant percentage of the tech demographic; wanting to kill the Affordable Healthcare Act. Or tea party programmers wanting the same thing who managed to get on the project. Come on man! Think of some more conspiracies!! Lovin' it.

    Of course it couldn't be the incompetence of contracting companies that seem to make a living because they have or aim to have some sort of inside track in Washington rather than the chops to do the actual thing that needs doing. Of course that would never happen in Washington or any other political capital. I'm not saying the way the primary contractor, Quebec company CGI, does business in any way follows recent Quebec business practices. They are probably a well above board and good honest corporate citizen (although according to the Washington Post article above they did screw up another medical system based project). I'm just saying that if Quebec ever did separate from Canada, as it is now, they'd have to think up some other adjective to describe it. It's too cold to grow bananas there.

    Frankly (and personally) though, I wouldn't trust any company to government contracts with stated aims published in their profiles like: "The ultimate aim is to establish relations so intimate with the client that decoupling becomes almost impossible," (see Washington Post article). Especially not from Quebec.

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  17. Re:bitch and moan by garyebickford · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One could argue that the Administration's tactic of preventing release of critical design data until after the election, to prevent the opposition from using the true costs as a campaign issue, was sabotage de facto. This put the entire development process several months, perhaps a year, behind schedule.

    --
    It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
  18. Re:bitch and moan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it's a reflection some plans were actually broken.

    My former plan was not broken. It was exactly what I wanted. Now, I have to pay over twice as much for a plan that is not what I want. Obama promised I could keep my old plan. I cannot do that. I am forced into a much more expensive plan.

    Quit making excuses for them. If you enable the lies, you're part of the problem.

  19. Re:It's time to kill off the boomers. by GPierce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, Social Security is hardly bankrupt. It has about 3.5 trillion dollars invented in special interest drawing T-Bills. Unfortunately, the deadbeats in Congress borrowed the money "invested" by Social Security and spent it on every Congressional wet-dream and war they could come up with.

    The "full faith and credit" of the US requires that they pay this money back. This means raise taxes, run the printing press, or weasel their way out of as much of the repayment as they can. Every dollar they actually have to repay is a dollar that can't be spent on future corporate welfare.

    --

    When you are dancing with wolves, never limp
  20. Re:It's time to kill off the boomers. by garyebickford · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I will argue that part of the political problem is the boomers (of which I am one) - we grew up spoiled, filled with neo-socialist propaganda (see "The Closing of the American Mind" by Alan Bloom), and isolated without much chance to learn how to get along with each other or to how to be spouses and parents. For example, never having had to share a bedroom meant we never never really learned the art and necessity of compromise and living with someone else. We're arrogant, self-centered and always convinced we are right about everything. So, now we are running the political system, it is inherently dysfunctional. And that's not even counting those of us who are still lost in the 1960s, and think the hippie utopia was the best of all possible worlds, disregarding the realities of life. Someone once described American liberalism as confusing wishes with facts.

    So, politics in the US at least will continue to be dysfunctional until we boomers age out of the power structure. Assuming the next generations aren't even worse... :P

    --
    It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
  21. Root cause depends how deep you dig by subreality · · Score: 2

    What went wrong is we created a system which requires extensive paperwork for insurance. It should have been a web form that asks "Are you a US citizen?" and if you answer yes, it says "OK, you're covered."

    You can make the system (not just the web site) even more efficient by eliminating that question and simply serving static HTML.

  22. Old article. I can sum it up with three quotes by bfwebster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quote 1: "A complex system that works is found to have invariably evolved from a simple system that worked. . . .A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be made to work. You have to start over, beginning with a working simple system." (John Gall, Systemantics,p. 80, 1978 paperback edition).

    Quote 2: "In architecting a new [software] program all the serious mistakes are made in the first day." (Martin, 1988, cited in Maier & Rechtin, The Art of Systems Architecting (3rd ed.), p. 399)

    Quote 3: "Indeed, when asked why so many IT projects go wrong in spite of all we know, one could simply cite the seven deadly sins: avarice, sloth, envy, gluttony, wrath, lust, and pride. It is as good an answer as any and more accurate than most." (me, testifying before the Subcommittee on Government Management, Information, and Technology Hearing, US House of Representatives, June 22, 1998)

    My pre- and post-launch analysis of the Healthcare.gov website can be found here. ..bruce..

    --
    Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
  23. Government by Maudib · · Score: 3, Informative

    What went wrong? Government.

    The ACA has some great theory behind it. Assuming that the federal government will be able to operate and maintain a system like this in a cost effective fashion is lunacy. It as bound to fail.

    Also don't tell me it was Republican "starve the beast" strategy. The ACA was fully funded and largely untouchable. By any reasonable standard the roughly $400m spent on implementing this was incredibly excessive. If a private company had wanted to build this system for profit, it would have been done for under $100m. The big mistake of the ACA was that it did not allow for the creation of privately run and owned exchanges.

  24. Re:bitch and moan by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From Kevin Drum's blog:

    Over the past three years, insurance companies have swapped their plans around so fast and so often that virtually no one today has a plan more than a couple of years old—something that seems an awful lot like a deliberate effort to evade Obamacare's original intent that most individual policies would be grandfathered and therefore remain available to existing customers who wanted to keep them. [Footnote: Plans in existence before March 23, 2010, are grandfathered, which makes them exempt from most of the new requirements of Obamacare. However, if your insurance company switched you into a "better" plan after that date, it's not grandfathered and can be canceled at any time.] Now, having engineered a situation where most current policies aren't grandfathered, millions of people are getting letters canceling their existing plans and being told that the replacement is far more expensive.

    So basically, these insurance companies sending out these cancellation notices were gaming the system so that they could both undermine the law and blame it for "forcing" their customers to buy more expensive coverage.

  25. Re:bitch and moan by sumdumass · · Score: 2

    FEMA was still a functioning agency once Bush took office. The Posse Comitatus Act prevented FEMA from taking control in the Katrina ravaged areas before the governor ceded control to them. The Governor and mayor of New Orleans refused to cede control of the situation until it became obvious they couldn't handle it. Had the Governor and more precisely the Mayor of New Orleans stuck to the emergency preparedness plans they already filed with FEMA, the Katrina response would have been completely different.

    But that's not the only example. I'm not going to tediously list all the "starve the beast" examples, especially when "starve the beast" is a publicly stated philosophy of the Republican party.

    It is because you cannot do it. It doesn't exist and your one example is only valid of you ignore all of the issues surrounding it. FEMA's failures, as was decided by congressional panel investigating it, was due to an clear lack of authority to act without being requested by the officials in the state and as a result, the law was changed to give FEMA the authority to declare local efforts inefficient or overwhelmed if it appears to be the case like with Katrina and assume control.

    And yes, law was specifically changed to allow FEMA the option to take over a disaster response if the locals weren't up to it.

    And as for the folding of FEMA into the DHS, this did nothing to restrict funding, but officers were trained for more of a terrorist role then a natural disaster role which made them less capable in response. But funding wasn't yanked and FEMA was still a functioning agency.

  26. Re:bitch and moan by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Informative

    The SEC under Bush. They decimated it, and helped bring on the Great Recession.

    You are completely wrong on this.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/enough-of-this-nonsense-george-bush-grew-the-sec

    The SEC grew in size and scope under Bush. What you probably meant was the repeal of Glassâ"Steagall. But this was under Clinton with the Grammâ"Leachâ"Bliley Act. I cannot say for sure if this was what you meant because with you being factually incorrect in your statement, I can only assume based on facts that are true within it. But rest assured, of all the things that caused the "Great Recession" failing to fund the SEC or shrinking it was not one of them.

  27. Re:best you can say "even aweful Bush was governor by junkgoof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reagan? He started the downward spiral toward total dishonesty and lack of government. Why are some countries rich and others poor? It's not resources, it's government. Germany and Japan had good systems imposed by the US and they are doing fine. Most Western European governments have similar systems, they do well. Most Asian/African/Eastern European have crappy governments and are poor. There are exceptions, Singapore has a repressive but effective government and they are doing just fine economically.

    By choosing to starve and neuter the most effective tool for prosperity they have Americans are making themselves, and the countries who follow them poor. Government, and taxes, are a good thing. Corruption is bad, but a little theft is better than selling out the whole system which is what the US has consistently done for the last 3 or 4 decades. Who won each election? The man was bought. Why did Clinton win? He sold out more completely than his opponents. Why did Bush II win? He sold out totally and without reservation. The one exception is Bush I who actually did some positive stuff before being run out of town on a rail for not being bought. Obama was sort of a mistake, it should have been Hilary who was utterly bought, but Obama did the grassroots thing the first election... Too bad he doesn't understand Texan aphorisms like "dance with the one who brung you."

    Government is good, Fox news sucks, current conservatism (here in Canada too, Harper is trashing the economy in the typical right wing manner) sucks, propaganda sucks, and going with the gut instead of what works (the economy was better when taxes were high? That can't be right...) sucks.

    --
    You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
  28. web sites by junkgoof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does everyone think making a web site is easy? With multiple feeds using different technologies even a fairly minimal health care web site would be complicated. Add in a whole lot of states that oppose the process and delay finalizing the requirements (client from hell) and you can pretty easily get to a point where the implementers have to choose between being late and being wrong. Think of the length of the requirements document distilled from the laws and negotiations. Think of the army of business analysts needed to get functional requirements and of the timeline they have to meet. Remember that no one ever hires enough business analysts.

    This is not an easy thing to do.

    --
    You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
  29. Re:bitch and moan by sumdumass · · Score: 2

    The problem is that you cannot attribute those fuckups to Bush and a lack of funding. The Katrina problem is well documented and while it sounds good, it was no where close to reality.

    As for the Mexican field kitchen, I'm pretty sure they were attending evacuees and relief workers from parts of Texas hit by the storm.

    At least that is what the DOD seems to think. You might think they could have been used better or something, but they did serve a welcomed purpose.

    http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=17205

  30. Well, it was a disaster waiting to happen. by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Use your special system architecture x-ray vision, folks. This is not simple, stand-alone site like Slashdot that just has to do some database queries and generate some XML, then uses JQuery or something to asynchronously load some advertising into a DIV. This is a system that must orchestrate a complex *synchronous* process involving servers that belong to outside organizations.

    Case in point; the system requirements say that the site must exclude illegal immigrants, so the system has to request and obtain proof of your status from Homeland Security's servers before it can proceed. Also, instead of issuing the same subsidy to everyone, the law specifies and income dependent, means-tested subsidy, which means the system ALSO has to check your claims against the IRS's computers before continuing. That's before it actually gets to obtaining the marketplace data.

    So the most complex aspect of this system is essentially untestable short of a near-full scale roll-out. Hey, IRS, can I try hosing down your servers with JMeter? Even if you could orchestrate the non-functional testing you'd want to do, you won't know how the system works until it's handling real data. It's not like you can shove a test load equivalent to a thousand applications per hour, then another equivalent to ten-thousand, then draw a straight line that will tell you how the system will perform with twenty-thousand. There are some serious discontinuities in performance lurking, and the actual data submitted is likely to change things.

    I think if I were in charge of this, the extreme difficulty of realistic non-functional testing might have led me to isolate some of the data interchange into a post-processing step. That is, I'd let people apply and take them at their word about their immigration status and income, then tell them to check back in a day while we confirm the data they submitted. It's more bureaucratic, but a big part of user experience is predictability. If someone knows they can complete their application in half an hour and come back 24 hours later for confirmation, it's not so bad. But if the system is designed to give them the expectation that they can finish in a half hour, but sometimes takes so long their sessions expire, that's a disaster.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  31. Re:bitch and moan by sacrabos · · Score: 2

    No, they were actually getting critical requirements late in the game, too. Some as late as March 2013 and a little even in Sept 2013. Not excusing the contractor, and especially the head honcho's in charge stating (despite every indication otherwise) that everything would be peachy on Oct 1st. This should be a textbook example of just how badly a project can be screwed up at every level of development, implementation, and rollout that should be studied in software engineering classes for decades to come. Since this was a signature piece of litigation for Obama, you KNOW he had to be highly interested in it's success, it's nearly impossible to believe that he didn't know there were substantial problems beforehand. If you believe him that he found out about the problems on the news, and you know he had to be highly engaged with CMS and HHS in wanting progress reports, some people severely lied to him to keep in the dark. No matter how you slice it, this was a major cover-up somewhere on the slim hopes that everything would end up okay in the end.

  32. Biggest Software Disaster in all History by Kogun · · Score: 2

    The scope of the screw ups on this is so big that new vernacular and laws will be coined. College courses will be created solely focusing on the screw ups involved in this system. Many of epic software disasters of the past will be forgotten because of how they fade in comparison.

    The problems:

    o $5B estimate to produce the site (WTF!) but only a $1B budget granted to create the site (still, WTF! )
    o Hofstadter’s Law
    o 55 contractors and Conway's law
    o 2 weeks of integration testing before going live (seriously? a thousand WTF!)
    o Unknown size of the Cone of Uncertainty at launch
    o Failure to adopt 'Worse is Better' OR 'The Right Thing'

    The solution involves a heavy dose of outside programmer's thus invoking Brook's Law.

    The $5B estimate is nealry 24,000 man-years of effort at $100/hr. So, congress said, 'no way', we think it is only 5,000 man-years. Yeah. Congress is overseeing a software project.

  33. Re:bitch and moan by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 5, Informative
    Sorry, but this is just plain wrong (and sadly reflective of the level of journalistic integrity I've grown to expect from Kevin Drum).

    Read for yourself the actual regulations, published in mid-2010, for grandfathering of existing plans. Less than 35 pages of single-spaced small print, so not too hard of a slog as these things go. A few recommended highlights:
    • Table 1 on page 34542, listing several ways in which "grandfathered" plans still must conform to the ACA (e.g., no lifetime limits on benefits; no canceling the plan when someone submits bills for a pre-existing condition that they "forgot" to fill in on their application; perhaps most importantly, must refund "excess" premiums in years where payouts were less than [generally 80]% of premiums) -- in short, the ACA materially alters the actuarial assumptions under which the "grandfathered" policies were issued
    • Subsection F on pages 34543-45 (and corresponding summary in subsection 3 on page 34547), explaining in detail the extremely limited ways in which an insurer can respond to the above intrusion on the actuarial assumptions of the plan (e.g., can't materially increase copays; group plans can't materially increase cost-shares of premiums)
    • Page 34549, explaining that the above hypersensitive triggers for a plan to lose grandfathered status are necessary to prevent adverse selection in grandfathered plans--i.e., lower-premium, healthier-population plans staying grandfathered, and higher-premium, sicker-population plans converting, and that they realize in setting the above constraints, most plans will not succeed in staying grandfathered for long
    • Table 3 on page 34553 (summarizing several prior pages), showing that, in 2010, HHS's mid-range estimate was that the above changes and restrictions would cause a cumulative total of 51% of all grandfathered group health plans to lose grandfathered status by 2013
    • Subsection F immediately below Table 3, discussing HHS's estimate that the above changes and restrictions would cause 40-67% of grandfathered individual plans per year to lose grandfathered status

    In short, it seems clear from HHS's own pen that the concept of "grandfathered" plans under the ACA is (1) highly Orwellian; and (2) was deliberately set up for failure. It's disappointing that the latest distracting meme is blaming the insurance companies for doing what, as shown above in black and white, HHS fully intended to force them to do from the beginning.

  34. Re:It's time to kill off the boomers. by techno-vampire · · Score: 2

    I'm a boomer too. Unlike many, if not most of our generation, I actually did something for my country: I served in the US Navy during 'Nam. Now that I'm retired, I get all of my medical care from the VA, and am very happy with it. (Unlike many government agencies, almost all of the workers at the VA I meet understand that if it weren't for people like me, they wouldn't have a job, and if they don't give good service, they won't.) And, I've been assured by the VA that my coverage is such that I don't have to worry about ObamaCare, and I won't be forced to buy new health insurance that I can't afford. Not all of us are spoiled, self-centered and only interested in what our country can do for us, but I must agree that all too many are.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
  35. Re: bitch and moan by Fjandr · · Score: 2

    Insurance plan != insurance company.

    Nobody is talking about dissolving companies, and your post does nothing to address the point that people are, in fact, not able to keep plans that are supposed to be grandfathered in. The law has resulted in people losing their plans, and prevents people from buying plans prior to its enactment that would be grandfathered in.

    It's amazing how scared some people are of actual facts being discussed.

  36. Re:bitch and moan by stenvar · · Score: 2

    So basically, these insurance companies sending out these cancellation notices were gaming the system so that they could both undermine the law and blame it for "forcing" their customers to buy more expensive coverage.

    Insurance companies are greedy corporations; they don't leave billions of dollars on the table in order to make a political point. Most of these cancellations are required by ACA: the old plans don't satisfy the law's requirement; this was designed into the ACA.

    If insurance companies "game the system" and choose to drop people they don't have to drop (by creating plan changes), it's for people who they know have to sign up for more expensive plans with them right away. That's also a fault of ACA, not of the insurance companies: they are profit maximizers, and Obama knew that when he designed ACA.

    And, of course, none of this counts the many millions of people whose employment plans and medical are are changing in other radical ways, like doctors leaving their plans etc. The ACA trainwreck has just begun, and a malfunctioning web site is the least of our problems.

  37. Re:Does govt want an insurance website? by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Grant me the legal authority to print money anytime I want and make everyone else pay the true cost of it (inflation) and I, too, could pay for anything money can buy. In the Apollo days they at least tried to pretend that debt is important and that there's something deeply wrong with running a government in a way that would bankrupt any business or household.

    Hold your horses, partner.

    A history lesson is in order. (Then get off my lawn.)

    The 1960s had a lot of debt.

    There was the Vietnam war and it wasn't cheap. There were some questionable political deals in Cuba that included a rather scary nuclear showdown that led directly into the cold war. Also there was the whole space race that you mentioned.

    The US was in debt and facing a deficit. Not as big as today's deficit and debt, but it felt bad at the time.

    President Johnson was looking over where the money was sitting, and he noticed a huge pile of cash sitting in an off-budget area. It was called the Social Security Trust Fund. It had billions of dollars just sitting there being invested, not being spent.

    The good president looked over the budget, noticed that he could make himself look better (and presumably look better on the world stage) if the US didn't appear to be in debt. So President Johnson decided to move the Social Security Trust Fund into the general budget. There was a bit of a complaint at the time, "you cannot spend that money, it is for retirement". Not a problem they assured us, there would be plenty of money available in 2010 when baby boomers start to retire. We might not even be on a cash society in the future, let's spend it all today! The President made a proposal to Congress, and then all of them started rolling up the Social Security funds into cigars and enjoyed a smoke.

    The Apollo program and several other major programs were funded by TODAY'S social security problem. Much of the reason we have so much debt is because the social security fund was robbed to pay for the war and the space race. Government took out a loan from the people and only recently started feeling the pain of paying the loan back. Baby boomers who don't suffer from society's generally short term memory can clearly recall that the focus was divided on the war, the protests, and the space race, and how those few people who noticed the money was missing were quickly written off as being anti-war or pro-war (whichever was a better distraction) and somehow the messenger was blamed and the message quickly forgotten.

    Much like groups like WikiLeaks today; we all remember the name but the hundreds of soldiers who were documented committing clear acts of murder somehow escaped the court martial. Back then if you mentioned the social security funds you were branded a hippie or communist and you didn't believe in America. (Anything to make you look like an unpatriotic troublemaker rather than someone who wanted to see where the money went.) Then Johnson lost to Nixon and another scandal followed, most people forgot about Johnson's scandal taking the money and moved on to Nixon's spying scandal that evicted him from office, which is NOTHING compared to today's spying scandal that people don't care about.

    Enough rambling, get off my lawn.

    --
    //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
  38. Re:bitch and moan by RoccamOccam · · Score: 2

    Right. So, the Heritage Foundation wrote 1000 pages of law and 11,000 pages of Federal guidelines? Why do liberals keep hiding behind the Heritage Foundation?

    So, what we have is that a conservative think-tank floated an idea that Republicans (congressmen and voters, both) absolutely wouldn't support, but the Democrats were willing to go to any lengths to get passed, in the process making it far worse. A terrible system, that liberals will unwaveringly support, until they are so embarrassed by its deep and numerous flaws that it then becomes the the fault of Republicans and a conservative think-tank. But, under no circumstances can we abolish it, because it's "settled law".

    Man, that is so unbelievably delusional.

  39. Re: Cheapest bidder? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 4, Informative

    Correct. It was a no-bid contract. Interestingly, Toni Townes-Whitley, a senior vice president at CGI Federal, is a Princeton classmate of Michelle Obama. In addition to being college classmates, both Obama and Townes-Whitley are members of the Association of Black Princeton Alumni.

  40. Health Insurance Companies = RIAA by globaljustin · · Score: 2

    It's about profit model.

    The problems that were reported as "problems with the website" were either standard IT issues (no excuse, but no need to exaggerate) solvable with routine IT engineering work or they were problems inherent in the profit model of the insurance companies.

    Health care is like clean water, plumbing, or roads...it is something virtually every American would want or need.

    The very definition of government is to group our resources...and any time humans group for any reason...it is to somehow pool resources.

    "insurance" is a viable concept in the free market...I'm thinking especially for things like automobile insurance. It makes sense that it could be profitable.

    Technology has improved our ability to give health care such that, essentially, it is cheaper to just let everyone have access to health care (b/c on a per person basis it is cheaper) than to deal with the consequences of having an unhealthy populace.

    Technology has rendered the health care insurance industry obsolete. It is similar to the effect the internet had on the RIAA's profit model of licensing and holding legal copyrights.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  41. Re:Thoughtfulness by mmmw · · Score: 2

    Wasn't this meant to be a thread about the web site technical issues?

  42. Re:bitch and moan by swalve · · Score: 2

    They sabotaged it by implementing it in a confusing and costly manner. It was designed to do two things: buy votes from the seniors in the short term, and fail in the long term. The long con is paying off now with all the republicans complaining about the deficit/debt and "entitlements". Guess what, medicare part D is an entitlement. There is no need to dig deep to figure out their plan. They say it all the time: starve the beast, cut spending, etc. Then they continue to pass expensive bills so they can keep complaining about spending.

  43. Re: bitch and moan by Mabhatter · · Score: 2

    the INSURANCE COMPANIES were not suppose to CHANGE OR MODIFY plans that were to be grandfathered. BECAUSE companies made material changes to plans between 2010 and 2013 but did not make the plans COMPLY with the government rules, they do not QUALIFY to be grandfathered. They knew what they were doing because they read the law and found their way out.

    the INSURANCE COMPANIES played folks for suckers, by taking their customer's money another 3 years and quietly nullifying their grandfather status. This is all about greedy insurance companies, not the President trying to get insurance out there.