Slashdot Mirror


6TB Helium-Filled Hard Drives Take Flight

An anonymous reader writes in with some exciting news if you are a storage array manufacturer with a lot of money to spend on hard drives."HGST Monday announced that it's now shipping a helium-filled, 3.5-in hard disk drive with 50% more capacity than the current industry leading 4TB drives. The new drive uses 23% less power and is 38% lighter than the 4TB drives. Without changing the height, the new 6TB Ultrastar He6 enterprise-class hard drive crams seven disk platters into what was a five disk-platter, 4TB Ultrastar drive."

50 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. Helium Leaks by bfmorgan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Helium love to leak. How long will these have the He pressure they need to work?

    --
    I hope this caused some synapses to fire.
    1. Re:Helium Leaks by SternisheFan · · Score: 5, Informative

      They do have a 5 year warranty.

    2. Re:Helium Leaks by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 5, Funny

      Now I know where to store all my high pitched MP3's :D

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    3. Re:Helium Leaks by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Funny

      You should Rush right out and get one.

    4. Re:Helium Leaks by bob_super · · Score: 3, Funny

      Can I call this planned obsolescence yet?

      I have drives much older than that, and I'm not worried that they are engineered to fail soon (they will, but not by design)

    5. Re:Helium Leaks by dcollins117 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's the main drawback of these drives. They can make Barry White sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

    6. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, when a drive fails and I lose time/data

      I'm not hiring you to set up my systems.

      Most sane people would take a spare off the shelf and pop it into the array and drop the bad drive into the dead soldiers pile for later RMA.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re: Helium Leaks by Guy+From+V · · Score: 5, Funny

      Christ, Sterling Mallory Archer, what part of its helium not hydrogen don't you understand?

    8. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought conventional wisdom was to at least mix batches, if not brands.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Helium Leaks by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Funny

      about 24 hours longer than the warranty.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:Helium Leaks by nabsltd · · Score: 5, Informative

      The dark underbelly of hard drives is you get a single replacement, the replacement has a 90 day on it and that's it.

      Every Western Digital replacement drive I have received has had the longer of either the remaining original warranty or one year.

      These are all drive in their "Black" line, so that might make a difference.

    11. Re:Helium Leaks by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Provided that atmospheric pressure works the fact that helium leaks is irrelevant: helium leaks into the harddrive just as easily as it leaks out of the harddrive. All you have to do is make sure that the harddrive is leak-tight for everything but helium - fortunately this is pretty easy to do as helium is the only gas that leaks as easily as it.

      This is completely wrong. I assume you slept through your class on partial pressures. The helium would leak out until the concentration of helium inside equals the concentration of helium outside. The presence of other (non-leaking) gases is irrelevant. Since helium constitutes only 0.00052% of the atmosphere, that would result in a very high vacuum.

    12. Re:Helium Leaks by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can get a REFURBISHED equal drive that has a higher chance of dying. Oh and the replacement has no warranty. The dark underbelly of hard drives is you get a single replacement, the replacement has a 90 day on it and that's it.

      Not true. I had a seagate with a 5 year warranty go out 2 years into its life. The replacement had a 90 day warranty or what ever was left on the original warranty, which ever was greater.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    13. Re:Helium Leaks by Valdrax · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh the bright side, they make Alvin and the Chipmunks inaudible.
      The downside? Mysterious uptick in neighborhood dog noise.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    14. Re: Helium Leaks by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It actually makes all your MP3s sound like they were recorded by Alvin and the Chipmunks.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    15. Re: Helium Leaks by FilmedInNoir · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh the high-pitched and squeaky humanity.

      --
      Sig. Sig. Sputnik
    16. Re:Helium Leaks by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      And Darth Vader will sound like an angry Jerry Seinfeld.

    17. Re:Helium Leaks by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If their drive costs more than a RAID6+0 or something else on a high-end SAN, you'll just buy cheaper drives. If their drive is less reliable and bigger, then you're in danger of more drive failures and a total failure while replacing them (rebuilding a 3TB enterprise-class Seagate drive takes up of 72 hours) and so there's too much risk unless you buy a lot more of them and make crazy shit like RAID6+0. They can't just price them obscenely expensive to make up for constantly giving out free ones.

      That all means they have to reliably provide for a minimum of failures over 5 years to make sure their warranty doesn't bankrupt them. This is why warranties actually work: the "invisible hand of the market" is a thief and a charlatan, but it works pretty well when bound in a rather nasty glove that inflicts great pain when it misbehaves.

    18. Re:Helium Leaks by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh no. If the warranty is 5 years, I expect it to last at least that long, if not longer. If the drive fails within 5 years, I expect a new drive since I purchased a guarantee of uninterrupted operation for 5 years. If I didn't get it with the first drive, or the second, or the third, then I expect them to keep sending me drives until they get it right or refund my money. If they go out of business doing this with too many customers too much of the time, then they should have as their products suck.

      That is how you honor warranties the right way. Of course, companies cheap out on them now, and it's getting real bad with things like computer components, notably, motherboards, video boards, and hard disks. A new product was paid for, and it was faulty, and they send a refurb? I did not buy a refurb! Many times the refurb shows up half broken (motherboard manufacturers are famous for using 3rd party 'fufillment centers' that do this) or as DOA as the one sent in. It's such a damn hassle get them to act honorably. Of course, this drives me to say 'fuck it' and buy the ultra cheap ones with the expectation of early failure, but then I'm supporting the anti-quality trend in the consumer market. Really, the constant cross shipping and down time costs both manufacturer and consumer more money than getting it right in the first place would.

      Barring a RARE fluke, there's no reason every hard disk shouldn't last at least 5 years now, but again they cheap out on the manufacturing process to save a few pennies. There was a time when getting 10 years out of a quality disk was reasonable.

  2. Disks with helium? by buchner.johannes · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally a real cloud drive!

    --
    NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
  3. What the helium actually does by TWiTfan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is a relevant portion FTA on what the helium actually DOES (unfortunately not mentioned in the summary):

    At one-seventh the density of air, helium produces less drag on the moving components of a drive - the spinning disk platters and actuator arms -- which translates into less friction and lower operating temperatures.

    The helium-drives run at four to five degrees cooler than today's 7200rpm drives, HGST stated.

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    1. Re:What the helium actually does by dcw3 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This might help you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height

      Heads fly, and you don't "fly" in a vacuum.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  4. still a few kinks to work out by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Funny

    all the MP3 sound like The Chipmunks.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  5. Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Robotbeat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Helium tends to like to leak out of things. One has to wonder if the power consumption and reliability and speed of the drives will worsen after, say, a decade deployed in the field as the helium gradually is replaced by air. I suppose that has the added benefit for the hard drive manufacturer of a pretty firm drop-dead (or at least significantly reduced performance) date.

    But the increased complexity of the technical approach, i.e. cramming more platters (and using fancy technical tricks like using helium) versus just increasing platter areal density, portends an end to the incredibly fast reduction in storage costs over the last three decades.

    Another option may be to operate the devices in a soft vacuum (back-filled with a little bit of helium, perhaps). That may further reduce drag. However, I believe the heads rely on an air cushion in order to avoid contact with the platters, so there would be a limit to this.

    1. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by sjames · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depending on the seal, the drives likely will end up in a soft vacuum as the helium diffuses out but air cannot diffuse in as quickly. That might cause a head crash or it might cause a heating problem for internal components. Helium is a decent thermal conductor.

  6. Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    And helium. Shut up I'm telling you how it works.

    1. Re:Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Funny

      and an 8th platter on the back for hard to reach data.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  7. 10 Years of Research & unpressurised by tomxor · · Score: 5, Informative

    They spent 10 years researching how to reliably seal it into an enclosure...

    Also it is not under the same requirements of a compressed gas canister. The whole point of using helium is for the advantages of it's fluid dynamics compared to a normal air mixture, that's why it's not pressurised.

    I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure, but i suppose it's much easier to not deal with pressure difference and use a super low resistance fluid instead at the same atmospheric pressure.

    1. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Informative

      They don't work in vacuum.

      Fluid interaction between spinning platter, gas and the heads creates an air bearing effect that holds the heads at a precisely determined (for a given linear velocity) height away from the disc. It's a stable system, so any slight vibration will be quickly compensated. Without a fluid filling, the heads would crash into the platter.

    2. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure

      Because the head would crash. The head does not just magically float a few micrometers above the disk platter. There is no way that any machine could be build so precisely. Instead of floating, it flies. The head is shaped like a tiny airfoil, and it use the ground effect of the air/helium/whatever to maintain the proper distance from the platter. This would not work in a vacuum.

    3. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Without a fluid filling, the heads would crash into the platter.

      It seems the universal secret to success, whether you're throwing a ball or building a hard disk drive, is to bring the liquor out early and keep it comin'!

    4. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, and if you take a conventional spinning platter hard drive to high altitudes, they will fail. At 17,000 ft, the atmosphere is too thin for them.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    5. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      They cant, hard drive absolutely rely on the Bernoulli principle to fly the heads, you have to have an atmosphere inside the drive for them to work.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      They don't work in vacuum.

      That's true for a regular hard drive, but I'm not sure that's true in this case.

      e.g. A computer used at the ski resort in Mammoth Lakes experiences an air pressure about 25% less than sea level. So the volume of air inside the HDD enclosure wants to expand until it's 33% greater. With a regular HDD they just put in a filtered breathing hole to allow air in or out to equalize the pressure. This equalization is why the drive won't work in a near-vacuum.

      If they'd filled this with helium, I can think of two ways they're handling this expansion problem. They're either using a bladder with regular air inside, and the breathing hole goes to the bladder. That's the way we handled the problem in submersibles - oil compresses slightly more than water, so if you simply seal your thruster motors in an oil bath, the water pressure will crush them and cause the rotating parts to bind. Instead, you attach the oil reservoir to a flexible oil-filled bladder exposed to water. The bladder shrinks under pressure, equalizing the oil pressure inside the motor with the water pressure outside, without contaminating the motor with water.

      But since the HDD is bathed in a gas instead of a liquid, that wastes a lot of interior space - at least 33% if you want the drive to work at about 8000 ft, more if you want it to work higher. I'm not sure they have that much space available if they've crammed in 7 platters. So the other possibility is they've completely sealed the helium inside and the drive maintains the same internal pressure even at altitude.

      Either way, there's a minimum pressure below which the inside of the drive won't drop. In the latter case the pressure is constant. In the former case the minimum pressure is simply the pressure when the bladder is completely emptied of outside air - i.e. even in a vacuum there will still be pressure inside the drive. And if they're having to do that anyway, they'd be smart to make sure that low pressure was still sufficient to allow the drive to operate. That would make this drive the only (relatively) cheap large-capacity drive capable of being used in low ambient pressure applications which normally have to use flash storage or an SSD.

    7. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by dacut · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not Bernoulli; Navier-Stokes. The flyheight is regulated in a manner similar to fluid flow between parallel plates; Bernoulli uses lift generated by flow around a single wing with differential path lengths.

    8. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Informative

      Very nice, insightful post, but not really what the parent posts were getting at. The original post that started the chain was something like "why don't they make the interior of the drive a vacuum rather than helium filled?" The answer was that the heads and the platters maintain proper distance using aerodynamic affects which wouldn't work if the drive were emptied of all air.

  8. Re:A new spin on 'my hd exploded' by nctritech · · Score: 5, Funny

    You're thinking hydrogen. This is HELIUM!

    H = OH THE HUMANITY

    He = OH THE CHIPMUNK HUMANITY

  9. Re:What took so long? by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually it's deceptively hard. Helium has a way of diffusing right through an air tight seal.

  10. Re:Great... by bobbied · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, we could use just plain H. Wouldn't Hydrogen be better? After all it's lighter. It could make a drive failure a bit more obvious and fun...

    (Sarcastic grin)

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  11. No Vacuum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure

    The heads have to have air or some gas to make them "fly". In a vacuum, the heads grind the oxide off the platters.

  12. Re:Great... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's also even harder to contain than helium - and that's quite an achievement. Hydrogen is quite happy to leak through solid metal, given a bit of time. The atoms are so small, they fit *between* the atoms of a metal, and in the spaces between crystal grains.

  13. Re:Great... by ericloewe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We're talking about small quantities. Think of how many drives you could fill with one balloon's worth of Helium.

    But yes, I get seriously pissed off when I see precious helium that could've been used as a coolant for superconductive magnets (and HDD filler, it seems) being used to fill balloons. If you must absolutely have a stupid floating balloon or massive balloon parade, use hydrogen. When something happens, people will be so scared (even though a large hydrogen fire in an open space or a small one indoors aren't particularly dangerous by fire standards) they'll never want a balloon again unless it's filled with air.

    Sure, it might ruin little Jimmy's birthday party, but a spectacular hydrogen fire is mostly spectacular and is not a waste of Helium.

    If you ever participate in the usage of Helium you will probably be partly responsible for the day when:

    a) An MRI cannot operate because its superconductive electromagnet is not superconductive because it's not cool enough - liquid Helium cools it. (Yes, there are permanent magnet MRIs, but from what I've heard, most powerful MRIs use superconductive electromagnets).

    b) A particle accelerator cannot operate because its superconductive electromagnets aren't being cooled by liquid helium.

    Compared to those, lower capacity HDDs are a nuisance and not having floating balloons is a miniscule price to pay.

  14. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Which makes me wonder WHY He and not Xenon or another far easier to contain gas.

    Xenon makes no sense whatsoever. It is heavier and infinitely more expensive than air. It is also a poor heat conductor, which is why it is sometimes used in sealed triple pane windows. It would be a terrible choice.

    The point of using helium is that it is light, has low viscosity, high thermal conductivity, and is cheap enough to use in party balloons. Hydrogen is better on all these counts, but leaks more easily, can chemically react with some lubricants, and causes metals to become brittle. The only reason to even consider using any other heavier gas, would be if even helium leaked too much. But apparently they have that problem licked. So helium wins.

  15. Re:Great... by danlip · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is not squandering, this is a good use and a great example of why we should not be squandering our helium reserves. And you could probably make a 100 drives for the amount of helium in 1 birthday balloon (the open space in a drive is a rather small percentage of the drive, which in turn is much smaller than a balloon).

  16. Re:What took so long? by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Funny

    Welcome to Slashdot... where every advance is obvious and every technology is attempted to be debunked by high school level science knowledge.

    Additionally, if some technology is not 100% perfect, it's automatically completely useless. :P

  17. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not entirely true, hydrogen gas is pairs of hydrogens forming a molecule whereas helium is single atoms floating around making it much smaller and much harder to contain.

    No, this is wrong. H2 is more permeable than He through almost any material. In particular, helium will not permeate through bulk metal that is carefully annealed to contain no microscopic cracks. Hydrogen, on the other hand, will slowly permeate directly through most (or maybe all?) bulk metals.

  18. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

    What the hell does this have to do with money?

    So you believe that in the future helium will be scarce but cheap? Or maybe plentiful but expensive?

    Yes, it's theoretically possible to gouge future generations when Helium starts running out

    Look, the US government maintained helium reserves for decades, and continuously lost money doing so. The reason is that we are NOT running out. There is plenty that is co-produced with natural gas, and there is plenty more in deeper deposits where it is naturally produced by alpha emission from radioactive substances, primarily thorium-232. In recent years the price of helium has gone up, but that is not because we are "running out", but the opposite: many of the Helium producing wells in Texas have been capped because they cannot compete with the price of shale gas. So more helium is staying in the ground.

    History is full of chicken-little prognosticators that think they are smarter than the people actually willing to invest their money in their beliefs. If you really believe we are running out of helium, then you are free to invest your money in that belief. Someday you can sail your yacht pass all of us Pollyannas and say "I told you so."

  19. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    " but leaks more easily"

    No it does not. Helium is mono-atomic and has the smallest atomic radius of the mono-atomic gasses. This is why it leaks more than anything.

    Hydrogen may be the smallest di-atomic molecule.

  20. Re:What the hell is a helium bomb? by acsinc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Most bombs become useless shortly after their first use anyway.

  21. Re:The head never moves, the disk spins under it. by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 4, Informative

    The head never moves, the disk spins under it. Putting a wing shape on the head wouldn't do anything.

    It's too bad the disk doesn't drag some air along with it as it spins. If there was a layer of moving air along the boundary between the solid and gas, the heads could fly in that region.