6TB Helium-Filled Hard Drives Take Flight

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6TB Helium-Filled Hard Drives Take Flight

Posted by samzenpus on Monday November 4, 2013 @04:26AM from the building-it-better dept.

An anonymous reader writes in with some exciting news if you are a storage array manufacturer with a lot of money to spend on hard drives."HGST Monday announced that it's now shipping a helium-filled, 3.5-in hard disk drive with 50% more capacity than the current industry leading 4TB drives. The new drive uses 23% less power and is 38% lighter than the 4TB drives. Without changing the height, the new 6TB Ultrastar He6 enterprise-class hard drive crams seven disk platters into what was a five disk-platter, 4TB Ultrastar drive."

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Helium Leaks by bfmorgan · 2013-11-04 04:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

Helium love to leak. How long will these have the He pressure they need to work?

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1. Re:Helium Leaks by SternisheFan · 2013-11-04 04:38 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  They do have a 5 year warranty.
2. Re:Helium Leaks by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2013-11-04 04:40 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Now I know where to store all my high pitched MP3's :D
  
  --
  Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
3. Re:Helium Leaks by Nerdfest · 2013-11-04 04:54 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  You should Rush right out and get one.
4. Re:Helium Leaks by bob_super · 2013-11-04 04:55 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Can I call this planned obsolescence yet?
  I have drives much older than that, and I'm not worried that they are engineered to fail soon (they will, but not by design)
5. Re:Helium Leaks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 04:59 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Geedy Lee hates you and your slight. You should consider yourself lucky to ever hear such wonderful music in the first place, loser.
6. Re:Helium Leaks by dcollins117 · 2013-11-04 05:01 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  That's the main drawback of these drives. They can make Barry White sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
7. Re: Helium Leaks by The+Grim+Reefer · 2013-11-04 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  That was hydrogen.
  Helium was from the huge manatee
8. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 05:22 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So, when a drive fails and I lose time/data
  I'm not hiring you to set up my systems.
  Most sane people would take a spare off the shelf and pop it into the array and drop the bad drive into the dead soldiers pile for later RMA.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
9. Re:Helium Leaks by isorox · 2013-11-04 05:26 · Score: 2
  
  So, when a drive fails and I lose time/data
  I'm not hiring you to set up my systems.
  Most sane people would take a spare off the shelf and pop it into the array and drop the bad drive into the dead soldiers pile for later RMA.
  And when they al start failing at the same time with the same fault, and you lose your 3rd drive in your 8 drive raid 6 in a few hours?
10. Re: Helium Leaks by Guy+From+V · 2013-11-04 05:27 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Christ, Sterling Mallory Archer, what part of its helium not hydrogen don't you understand?
11. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 05:32 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I thought conventional wisdom was to at least mix batches, if not brands.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
12. Re:Helium Leaks by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:41 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  about 24 hours longer than the warranty.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
13. Re:Helium Leaks by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:42 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You can get a REFURBISHED equal drive that has a higher chance of dying. Oh and the replacement has no warranty. The dark underbelly of hard drives is you get a single replacement, the replacement has a 90 day on it and that's it.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
14. Re:Helium Leaks by nabsltd · 2013-11-04 05:49 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The dark underbelly of hard drives is you get a single replacement, the replacement has a 90 day on it and that's it.
  Every Western Digital replacement drive I have received has had the longer of either the remaining original warranty or one year.
  These are all drive in their "Black" line, so that might make a difference.
15. Re:Helium Leaks by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 05:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Provided that atmospheric pressure works the fact that helium leaks is irrelevant: helium leaks into the harddrive just as easily as it leaks out of the harddrive. All you have to do is make sure that the harddrive is leak-tight for everything but helium - fortunately this is pretty easy to do as helium is the only gas that leaks as easily as it.
  This is completely wrong. I assume you slept through your class on partial pressures. The helium would leak out until the concentration of helium inside equals the concentration of helium outside. The presence of other (non-leaking) gases is irrelevant. Since helium constitutes only 0.00052% of the atmosphere, that would result in a very high vacuum.
16. Re:Helium Leaks by GameboyRMH · 2013-11-04 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  The deals on them won't be Staying Alive.
  
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  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
17. Re:Helium Leaks by Lord+Apathy · 2013-11-04 06:02 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You can get a REFURBISHED equal drive that has a higher chance of dying. Oh and the replacement has no warranty. The dark underbelly of hard drives is you get a single replacement, the replacement has a 90 day on it and that's it.
  Not true. I had a seagate with a 5 year warranty go out 2 years into its life. The replacement had a 90 day warranty or what ever was left on the original warranty, which ever was greater.
  
  --
  Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
18. Re:Helium Leaks by Valdrax · 2013-11-04 06:03 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Oh the bright side, they make Alvin and the Chipmunks inaudible.
  The downside? Mysterious uptick in neighborhood dog noise.
  
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19. Re:Helium Leaks by freeschwag · 2013-11-04 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  Helium is a signficantly smaller molecule. I'm familiar due to experience with pressure calibration. Even with best efforts at sealing a system, leaks are all but impossible to prevent. Ambient pressure inside the drive would reduce leeching, but even differentials caused by atmospheric condidtions is going to make swings that will invariably change the internal mix. As noted in other comments, 5 year warrantee, and few things are designed to last more that a year or two these days anyway. What's your reasonble expectation of life of anything you buy these days? I said reasonable, not preferable.
  
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20. Re: Helium Leaks by jd2112 · 2013-11-04 06:06 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  It actually makes all your MP3s sound like they were recorded by Alvin and the Chipmunks.
  
  --
  Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
21. Re: Helium Leaks by FilmedInNoir · 2013-11-04 06:13 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Oh the high-pitched and squeaky humanity.
  
  --
  Sig. Sig. Sputnik
22. Re:Helium Leaks by ArcadeMan · 2013-11-04 06:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  And Darth Vader will sound like an angry Jerry Seinfeld.
  
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23. Re:Helium Leaks by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  not my experience with seagate. every replacement came with MAX 90 days, you can even verify that on their website, the serial number of the replacement refurbished drive is 90 days max.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
24. Re:Helium Leaks by wonkey_monkey · 2013-11-04 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  I'm going out on a limb and suggest that the answer is "long enough."
  Why you've got "Insightful" for disingenuously asking a loaded question you - in all likelihood - don't know the answer to is beyond me.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
25. Re:Helium Leaks by bluefoxlucid · 2013-11-04 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Where do these people come from who think they're going to get 5 drives for the price of 1? "Oh but it's going to fail repeatedly under warranty! I'll have to get free replacements all the time, that has a real-world impact!" Uh, what has a real-world impact is the cost of constantly replacing broken drives, bankrupting the hardware vendor right out of business.
  
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26. Re:Helium Leaks by Score+Whore · 2013-11-04 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think I'm getting 5 drives for the price of 1. I think I'm buying five years worth of hard drive storage. If that means that they have to send me five (or ten) hard drives to deliver that amount, then that's their problem. If they have shitting engineering or shitty manufacturing, that's not my problem.
27. Re:Helium Leaks by binarylarry · 2013-11-04 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  Well you can always blame it on Rygel!
  
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28. Re:Helium Leaks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  Personally I deliberately replace a drive with a new one when a new array is ~6 months old as well.
  On the theory that if they all fail at the same age, one drive is still good for a few months which is more than sufficient to rebuild it onto another.
  And GP... RAID is not a backup. It'll prevent you having to perform a restore from backups during most failures but in the event you described you really should have backups you can restore from too.
29. Re:Helium Leaks by bluefoxlucid · 2013-11-04 07:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If their drive costs more than a RAID6+0 or something else on a high-end SAN, you'll just buy cheaper drives. If their drive is less reliable and bigger, then you're in danger of more drive failures and a total failure while replacing them (rebuilding a 3TB enterprise-class Seagate drive takes up of 72 hours) and so there's too much risk unless you buy a lot more of them and make crazy shit like RAID6+0. They can't just price them obscenely expensive to make up for constantly giving out free ones.
  That all means they have to reliably provide for a minimum of failures over 5 years to make sure their warranty doesn't bankrupt them. This is why warranties actually work: the "invisible hand of the market" is a thief and a charlatan, but it works pretty well when bound in a rather nasty glove that inflicts great pain when it misbehaves.
  
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30. Re:Helium Leaks by epyT-R · 2013-11-04 07:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Uh no. If the warranty is 5 years, I expect it to last at least that long, if not longer. If the drive fails within 5 years, I expect a new drive since I purchased a guarantee of uninterrupted operation for 5 years. If I didn't get it with the first drive, or the second, or the third, then I expect them to keep sending me drives until they get it right or refund my money. If they go out of business doing this with too many customers too much of the time, then they should have as their products suck.
  That is how you honor warranties the right way. Of course, companies cheap out on them now, and it's getting real bad with things like computer components, notably, motherboards, video boards, and hard disks. A new product was paid for, and it was faulty, and they send a refurb? I did not buy a refurb! Many times the refurb shows up half broken (motherboard manufacturers are famous for using 3rd party 'fufillment centers' that do this) or as DOA as the one sent in. It's such a damn hassle get them to act honorably. Of course, this drives me to say 'fuck it' and buy the ultra cheap ones with the expectation of early failure, but then I'm supporting the anti-quality trend in the consumer market. Really, the constant cross shipping and down time costs both manufacturer and consumer more money than getting it right in the first place would.
  Barring a RARE fluke, there's no reason every hard disk shouldn't last at least 5 years now, but again they cheap out on the manufacturing process to save a few pennies. There was a time when getting 10 years out of a quality disk was reasonable.
31. Re:Helium Leaks by Score+Whore · 2013-11-04 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think I disagree with that you're saying here, but it doesn't seem responsive to my comment.
32. Re: Helium Leaks by Darinbob · 2013-11-04 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  That was the flamable paint on the canvas and not the hydrogen.
33. Re:Helium Leaks by Darinbob · 2013-11-04 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like the warranty is too short. People often keep drives for much longer than that. Maybe it;s fine for phones or tablets where people throw them away faster than their bubble gum, but not for a real computer.
34. Re:Helium Leaks by sl4shd0rk · 2013-11-04 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  I thought conventional wisdom
  ..and backsupses. Precious backsupses.
  
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35. Re:Helium Leaks by MBGMorden · 2013-11-04 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  This was over 10 years ago but at that time IBM did the same. I had one of those hideously bad IBM Deskstar drives from back then and was on my 5th or 6th replacement before the original 3 year warranty ran out (and the last replacement died less than 6 months after the original warranty was gone).
  It forever shattered my faith in IBM hard drives (which was eventually bough by Hitachi), but their warranty service was pretty good.
  
  --
  "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
36. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but that would destroy my argument about not losing time :)
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
37. Re:Helium Leaks by h4rr4r · 2013-11-04 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Most drive warranties are a lot shorter.
  Go look at newegg.
  Take backups, test them. An untested backup is not a backup.
38. Re:Helium Leaks by omnichad · 2013-11-04 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  What other 6TB drives are you seeing available?
39. Re:Helium Leaks by omnichad · 2013-11-04 08:37 · Score: 2
  
  You have to keep the serial number / invoice for the original drive to get them to honor the longer warranty period.
40. Re:Helium Leaks by Mashiki · 2013-11-04 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  not my experience with seagate. every replacement came with MAX 90 days, you can even verify that on their website, the serial number of the replacement refurbished drive is 90 days max.
  I'm going to guess it has more to do with where you live, apart from anything else. Any replacement drive I've received has had 1yr on it.
  
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41. Re:Helium Leaks by bluefoxlucid · 2013-11-04 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  If they go out of business doing this with too many customers too much of the time, then they should have as their products suck.
  And this is the part that people miss: they think a warranty is just lip-service and free replacements and doesn't mean a product will last that long. They don't imagine the impact of the product not lasting that long on the guy selling them the dysfunctional product.
  
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42. Re:Helium Leaks by Lazere · 2013-11-04 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  That's not entirely accurate. While that's true for systems where the pressure is equal and they can exchange particles of one for particles of the other, it isn't for the situation he's describing. If it was built so only helium would leak, it would leak out until the pressure of the drive was equalized to the atmosphere, not the concentration. If it equalized concentration in this sort of system, it would end up with a near vacuum inside the drive. In practice, that's not how it happens.
43. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  "if not brands"
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
44. Re:Helium Leaks by omnichad · 2013-11-04 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  What other brand of 6TB drive are you seeing?
45. Re:Helium Leaks by Kjella · 2013-11-04 09:57 · Score: 2
  
  Uh no. If the warranty is 5 years, I expect it to last at least that long, if not longer. If the drive fails within 5 years, I expect a new drive since I purchased a guarantee of uninterrupted operation for 5 years. If I didn't get it with the first drive, or the second, or the third, then I expect them to keep sending me drives until they get it right or refund my money. If they go out of business doing this with too many customers too much of the time, then they should have as their products suck. That is how you honor warranties the right way. Of course, companies cheap out on them now, and it's getting real bad with things like computer components, notably, motherboards, video boards, and hard disks. A new product was paid for, and it was faulty, and they send a refurb? I did not buy a refurb!
  A five year warranty is not a guarantee of five years of uninterrupted operation, only that they'll fix any problems you have with it the next five years. Otherwise I bet you'd see a lot of "accidents" around the four year, eleven months mark. And while it might have been a new drive when you bought it, if you need a warranty repair after four years and eleven months it's now a four years and eleven months old drive. Do you think your car insurance company should give you a totally new car when your 20 year old car is totaled by a drunk driver? Same with warranties, they are only intended to reinstate you to where you are now, not where you were almost five years ago.
  Yes, the refurb should absolutely be tested and working. If it has any metric of how "worn" it is, it should be no worse than what you sent in. But I think you have an exaggerated view of what a warranty could and should do. Particularly if you apply it to the product as a whole, if your laptop broke you should get a new one? They can't just swap the faulty RAM stick for a new one and ship the rest back to you? I mean your operation of the laptop was interrupted right, try again? And while computer equipment tend to fail catastrophically it'd be even sillier to apply this to consumer goods as a whole. I find it quite okay that their choices are:
  1) Repair - if you want to swap a broken component, fine no matter if it's one capacitor or one motherboard.
  2) Replace - that's how I have a WD SSD in my machine though I bought a OCZ SSD
  3) Refund - if all else fails, hand the money back. But not just because you'd like to see the sale "undone".
  I feel we here in Norway have very strong consumer protections in law, but still nothing like you imagine them to be. And I don't think it would be very healthy for the market if they were.
  
  --
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46. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  I assume you are just trying to be annoying?
  In case you are honestly confused, this would be the only brand of 6TB drive that I am aware of. In that case, you are stuck with mixing batches. Another commenter says that they swap out some new drives at the 6 month mark as another form of staggering.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
47. Re:Helium Leaks by omnichad · 2013-11-04 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  Not trying for annoying - you re-quoted the part that I was questioning.
  If you're suggesting to buy some 6TB drives 6 months before implementation and then buy some more, then fine. But you can't just go do it all at launch.
48. Re:Helium Leaks by Xeno+man · 2013-11-04 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  I know reading the article is not required to post, as evidence of the entirety of Slashdot, but they specifically state, in the first damn line of the frigging article, they spent over a decade addressing and solving that problem.
49. Re:Helium Leaks by MightyYar · 2013-11-04 10:48 · Score: 1
  
  No, I'm suggesting a purchase from two different sources, or if that is too difficult then two separate orders so that you have drives that were most likely manufactured at different times. You can achieve the same effect of waiting for 6 months, if that's your thing, by swapping in some of your spares at the 6 month mark.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
50. Re:Helium Leaks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  I've never seen this happen. I don't think it's as much a concern as some people make it out to be, at least not to the point where it's worth worrying about. Kind of like saying, "Well what if you're on your way to work and a meteor strikes your car? What will you do then?!"
51. Re:Helium Leaks by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 12:12 · Score: 1
  
  That's not entirely accurate. While that's true for systems where the pressure is equal and they can exchange particles of one for particles of the other, it isn't for the situation he's describing. If it was built so only helium would leak, it would leak out until the pressure of the drive was equalized to the atmosphere, not the concentration. If it equalized concentration in this sort of system, it would end up with a near vacuum inside the drive. In practice, that's not how it happens.
  No. Everything you said is wrong, or you are describing a completely different situation.
  Here are the assumptions:
  1. The enclosure is permeable to helium, and only helium.
  2. The enclosure is rigid and the volume doesn't change.
  3. The enclosure initially contains only helium at normal atmospheric pressure.
  4. The outside atmosphere contains a negligible amount of helium.
  If you are seriously suggesting that the helium would not leak because the pressure would remain at 1 atm, and you have a university education, then you should sue that university for malpractice. The helium would leak out, and the only thing remaining would be a tiny trace of helium and a very rarefied vacuum.
  In practice, there is no known substance permeable to only helium. Anything permeable by helium is also permeable by hydrogen (although the reverse is not true). But molecular hydrogen is even less common in the ground level atmosphere than helium (about a tenth the concentration).
52. Re:Helium Leaks by cbiltcliffe · 2013-11-04 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent up
  Why? It's wrong.
  The original warranty applies, from the original purchase date. Eliminating your warranty simply because you've used it is fraud, and I've never seen a single manufacturer - of hard drives, or anything else - do this.
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
53. Re:Helium Leaks by cbiltcliffe · 2013-11-04 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  I've still got one of those "hideously bad IBM Deskstar drives from back then" and it's still working, I think.
  Of course, that's because I pulled it out of service once I started seeing failure rates at work approaching 100%. (I worked at a white box manufacturer/support company at the time) It's sat on a shelf unused since then.
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
54. Re:Helium Leaks by cbiltcliffe · 2013-11-04 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Geedy Lee hates you and your slight. You should consider yourself lucky to ever hear such wonderful music in the first place, loser.
  Geddy Lee hates that you misspelled his name....
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
55. Re:Helium Leaks by hobarrera · 2013-11-04 14:54 · Score: 1
  
  In most places, a warranty replacement resets the warranty period to day zero. That's definitely the case in Argentina: if my 2-year-old drive fails, I get a replacement, and the 5-year warranty starts counting again from the day I got the replacement one.
56. Re:Helium Leaks by PlusFiveTroll · 2013-11-04 16:19 · Score: 1
  
  >Can I call this planned obsolescence yet?
  It's called a tolerance interval.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance_interval
  If 95% of your drives should last 5 years, you'd give a warranty that long to persuade customers to buy them over the other brands. Even at the far end of the bell curve you'll cover drives that have a much higher rate of failure because a large portion of the customer base will not RMA them for many issues, mostly because after 5 years something much better is out or they are lazy.
57. Re:Helium Leaks by caspy7 · 2013-11-04 19:37 · Score: 1
  
  And when they al start failing at the same time with the same fault, and you lose your 3rd drive in your 8 drive raid 6 in a few hours?
  Best start praying to the god of whatever alternate dimension you've stepped into because someone just handed the laws of probability an anvil.
58. Re: Helium Leaks by RaceProUK · 2013-11-05 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  It was both.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
59. Re:Helium Leaks by cthulhu11 · 2013-11-05 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  The HP was being sarcastic.
60. Re:Helium Leaks by cthulhu11 · 2013-11-05 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, vendor on the brain. ^HP^GP
61. Re:Helium Leaks by cthulhu11 · 2013-11-05 05:28 · Score: 1
  
  Failure while syncing is a very real concern -- it's happened to me, and it's one reason why I do 3-way mirrors when I can (and one reason to not buy LSI cards). Striped RAID6 volumes is hardly crazy. Above a certain size, say 8D+2P or at most 12D+2P, one generally wants to break the volume up into multiple parity groups. This 1) improves write performance and 2) keeps the whole thing from being saturated during a rebuild.
62. Re:Helium Leaks by CAIMLAS · 2013-11-05 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  This. If possible, I like to use disks from the same vintage, but of slightly different runtime, into the same storage block (whatever your technology may be). It eliminates the need for different disk batches/etc. (which is a management headache to deal with after the fact, and can lead to weird perf issues) by staggering the likely failure.
  
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63. Re:Helium Leaks by toddestan · 2013-11-05 16:02 · Score: 1
  
  I still have one or two that had started the whole clicking thing, where I was able to get the data successfully off and tossed them on a shelf. Even pushed one back into service temporarily a couple of times for things like trying out oddball Linux distros. Presumably they still function. Actually, as bad as those drives were, I never lost any data from them as they always gave signs before they completely failed.
  My other favorite Deskstar story was the one drive that lasted until 2010 in a computer that basically runs 24/7.
64. Re:Helium Leaks by RivenAleem · 2013-11-05 22:04 · Score: 1
  
  Since they are full of helium, I suspect it to be from under the shelf, and not off the shelf.
65. Re:Helium Leaks by RockDoctor · 2013-11-06 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  If you are seriously suggesting that the helium would not leak because the pressure would remain at 1 atm, and you have a university education, then you should sue that university for malpractice.
  Not necessarily. If he's got a degree in comparative theology, or a PhD in the herminutics of quantum disassociativism, then the university could easily defend themselves that they'd improved his earning potential in his field by protecting him from contact with reality.
  
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Great... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 04:30 · Score: 2, Funny

another way to squander our helium reserves :s
1. Re:Great... by bobbied · 2013-11-04 04:51 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Well, we could use just plain H. Wouldn't Hydrogen be better? After all it's lighter. It could make a drive failure a bit more obvious and fun...
  (Sarcastic grin)
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re:Great... by SuricouRaven · 2013-11-04 05:02 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's also even harder to contain than helium - and that's quite an achievement. Hydrogen is quite happy to leak through solid metal, given a bit of time. The atoms are so small, they fit *between* the atoms of a metal, and in the spaces between crystal grains.
3. Re:Great... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2013-11-04 05:16 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Hydrogen easily permeates the crystal lattice of many metals, often causes them to become brittle (or otherwise changing their mechanical and dynamic properties), and easily passes through the tiniest microfractures. I don't see a way of manufacturing a reliable hydrogen-filled hard drive under these conditions.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
4. Re:Great... by Plazmid · 2013-11-04 05:27 · Score: 2
  
  Except that hydrogen can do some [a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_damage#Shatter_cracks.2C_flakes.2C_fish-eyes_and_micro_perforations"]rather nasty things to metals[/a].
  Although, hard drives don't get very hot or experience high stresses, so it might not effect it.
5. Re:Great... by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  Which makes me wonder WHY He and not Xenon or another far easier to contain gas. Honestly they would get a better Bernoulli effect off of heaver non reactive gas inside.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
6. Re:Great... by ericloewe · 2013-11-04 05:53 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  We're talking about small quantities. Think of how many drives you could fill with one balloon's worth of Helium.
  But yes, I get seriously pissed off when I see precious helium that could've been used as a coolant for superconductive magnets (and HDD filler, it seems) being used to fill balloons. If you must absolutely have a stupid floating balloon or massive balloon parade, use hydrogen. When something happens, people will be so scared (even though a large hydrogen fire in an open space or a small one indoors aren't particularly dangerous by fire standards) they'll never want a balloon again unless it's filled with air.
  Sure, it might ruin little Jimmy's birthday party, but a spectacular hydrogen fire is mostly spectacular and is not a waste of Helium.
  If you ever participate in the usage of Helium you will probably be partly responsible for the day when:
  a) An MRI cannot operate because its superconductive electromagnet is not superconductive because it's not cool enough - liquid Helium cools it. (Yes, there are permanent magnet MRIs, but from what I've heard, most powerful MRIs use superconductive electromagnets).
  b) A particle accelerator cannot operate because its superconductive electromagnets aren't being cooled by liquid helium.
  Compared to those, lower capacity HDDs are a nuisance and not having floating balloons is a miniscule price to pay.
7. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 06:05 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Which makes me wonder WHY He and not Xenon or another far easier to contain gas.
  Xenon makes no sense whatsoever. It is heavier and infinitely more expensive than air. It is also a poor heat conductor, which is why it is sometimes used in sealed triple pane windows. It would be a terrible choice.
  The point of using helium is that it is light, has low viscosity, high thermal conductivity, and is cheap enough to use in party balloons. Hydrogen is better on all these counts, but leaks more easily, can chemically react with some lubricants, and causes metals to become brittle. The only reason to even consider using any other heavier gas, would be if even helium leaked too much. But apparently they have that problem licked. So helium wins.
8. Re:Great... by haruchai · 2013-11-04 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  Because you wouldn't get the capacity increase and lower power use from a gas with higher density relative to air?
  
  At one-seventh the density of air, helium produces less drag on the moving components of a drive - the spinning disk platters and actuator arms -- which translates into less friction and lower operating temperatures.
  The helium-drives run at four to five degrees cooler than today's 7200rpm drives, HGST stated
  
  --
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9. Re:Great... by danlip · 2013-11-04 06:09 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This is not squandering, this is a good use and a great example of why we should not be squandering our helium reserves. And you could probably make a 100 drives for the amount of helium in 1 birthday balloon (the open space in a drive is a rather small percentage of the drive, which in turn is much smaller than a balloon).
10. Re:Great... by ericloewe · 2013-11-04 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  What the hell does this have to do with money? Yes, it's theoretically possible to gouge future generations when Helium starts running out, but it's just as bad for everyone as running out of Helium.
  The solution is obvious: Do not sell Helium to idiots who want to fill balloons. Hint: It's something the US government, as the world's largest Helium supplier, has to do.
11. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 07:06 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Not entirely true, hydrogen gas is pairs of hydrogens forming a molecule whereas helium is single atoms floating around making it much smaller and much harder to contain.
  No, this is wrong. H2 is more permeable than He through almost any material. In particular, helium will not permeate through bulk metal that is carefully annealed to contain no microscopic cracks. Hydrogen, on the other hand, will slowly permeate directly through most (or maybe all?) bulk metals.
12. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 07:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  What the hell does this have to do with money?
  So you believe that in the future helium will be scarce but cheap? Or maybe plentiful but expensive?
  
  Yes, it's theoretically possible to gouge future generations when Helium starts running out
  Look, the US government maintained helium reserves for decades, and continuously lost money doing so. The reason is that we are NOT running out. There is plenty that is co-produced with natural gas, and there is plenty more in deeper deposits where it is naturally produced by alpha emission from radioactive substances, primarily thorium-232. In recent years the price of helium has gone up, but that is not because we are "running out", but the opposite: many of the Helium producing wells in Texas have been capped because they cannot compete with the price of shale gas. So more helium is staying in the ground.
  History is full of chicken-little prognosticators that think they are smarter than the people actually willing to invest their money in their beliefs. If you really believe we are running out of helium, then you are free to invest your money in that belief. Someday you can sail your yacht pass all of us Pollyannas and say "I told you so."
13. Re:Great... by aminorex · 2013-11-04 07:40 · Score: 1
  
  infinitely more expensive? i'm in the wrong business!
  
  --
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14. Re:Great... by aminorex · 2013-11-04 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  but protons don't come with a buddy neutron in hydrogen
  
  --
  -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
15. Re:Great... by haruchai · 2013-11-04 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  And they couldn't figure this out in 10 yrs of research?
  When you have a gas like argon that's 1% of the atmosphere?
  Or what about using nitrogen, which is ridiculously abundant & reasonably non-reactive?
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
16. Re: Great... by NIK282000 · 2013-11-04 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  That's true but the molecule H2 (two hydrogens) is much wider then a single atom of helium.
  
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17. Re:Great... by evilviper · 2013-11-04 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  If you must absolutely have a stupid floating balloon or massive balloon parade, use hydrogen. When something happens, people will be so scared (even though a large hydrogen fire in an open space or a small one indoors aren't particularly dangerous by fire standards) they'll never want a balloon again unless it's filled with air.
  But hydrogen is not easy for average folks to source, and not cheap... Meanwhile, natural gas is also lighter than air, and is cheap and very widely available. My cheap stove with detachable burners has an ideal orifice that makes it trivially easy to inflate balloons...
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrhlRIvNjTc
  
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18. Re: Great... by marcosdumay · 2013-11-04 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, H2 is bigger than He in any dimension (even the dimension where the atoms are aligned).
  But hydrogen atoms have a huge tendency of losing all of their electrons at once, what makes them tiny by any measure. No other atom loses the entire electrosphere that easily, for obvious reasons.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
19. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 08:08 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  " but leaks more easily"
  No it does not. Helium is mono-atomic and has the smallest atomic radius of the mono-atomic gasses. This is why it leaks more than anything.
  Hydrogen may be the smallest di-atomic molecule.
20. Re:Great... by LoRdTAW · 2013-11-04 08:42 · Score: 2
  
  ... and you also get hydrogen embrittlement. Which means that over time the metal parts become brittle and subject to fracture. That is why gas or flux shielding is so important in welding. The water in the air separates in the arc and the hydrogen gets embedded into the weld pool weakening it.
21. Re:Great... by omnichad · 2013-11-04 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Especially since helium in a baloon is somewhat under pressure.
22. Re:Great... by ericloewe · 2013-11-04 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  Are you seriously suggesting that your personal freedom (let's not forget no freedom is absolute) is worth more than the future of science and medicine?
  Would you be saying the same if I suggested that it should be illegal to carry around a bucket full of Radium and walk with it in a crowd?
  If all you can say is "Why should I do what you say?" after I present my arguments, you bring nothing to the discussion. It's perfectly alright to disagree, but doing so without presenting facts or arguments is lame at best and the hallmark of an idiot at worst.
  So let's try this again: Why do you believe your right to fill a balloon with Helium is more important than Humanity's right to medicine and scientific advancement? Do you believe in limitless Helium? Do you feel it's everyone for themselves? Do you believe the whole issue is overblown and the supposed scarcity will never happen? Do you have any facts to add?
23. Re:Great... by ericloewe · 2013-11-04 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  The amount of Helium that is naturally produced is not nearly enough to allow for sustainability at current consumption levels. Helium is essentially a limited resource. It won't dry up tomorrow, but it will, eventually.
  The main issue isn't money. Yes, money is good and I have nothing against money. However, there are vital uses for Helium that have no forseeable alternative. I'm not preaching the end of abundant Helium to make a quick buck, I'm worried about our future if Helium runs out.
  However you want to put it, Helium is not limitless or nearly limitless (it has the nasty habit of leaving the atmosphere) and it sure as hell plays no important role as balloon filler. It boils down to Science, Medicine, Balloons at parties and parades competing for a limited supply. I do not think the latter has any valid reason to warrant the use of Helium. It's not like stopping the use Helium for unimportant stuff is an inconvenience to anyone.
24. Re: Great... by SuricouRaven · 2013-11-04 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  There's one clear way to settle this.
  Someone is going to have to set up an experiment.
25. Re: Great... by NIK282000 · 2013-11-04 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Having a moderately successful youtube channel I volunteer to do the experiment and publish the results as long as it is funded by someone else.
  
  --
  Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
26. Re:Great... by Circlotron · 2013-11-04 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe hydrogen is just too thin and whispy, to the extent that the read/write heads won't fly far enough above the disk surface?
27. Re:Great... by John.Banister · 2013-11-04 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  If you want to get pissed off about helium consumption, I expect tri-mix eats a lot more helium than baloons.
28. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not preaching the end of abundant Helium to make a quick buck, I'm worried about our future if Helium runs out.
  You are completely missing the point. By storing helium, you are taking it off the market and increasing the price today, and when you sell it in the future, you will decrease the price for the future users that you are so concerned about. So you not only get rich, but you also SOLVE THE SHORTAGE. This is called "supply and demand", and it is the way that free markets have created the prosperity that much of the modern world enjoys.
  The fact that NO ONE is doing this has two alternative explanations:
  1. Greedy capitalists actually don't care about making gobs of money while solving the world's problems.
  2. You are wrong.
29. Re:Great... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  " but leaks more easily"
  No it does not. Helium is mono-atomic and has the smallest atomic radius of the mono-atomic gasses. This is why it leaks more than anything.
  I don't think so. I have found citations in both directions, so I am not sure. But the more authoritative sources say that hydrogen will diffuse through solids faster than helium. In particular, there are sources that state that hydrogen will diffuse through bulk metal, while helium will not.
30. Re:Great... by imsabbel · 2013-11-04 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  In theory. In practice, helium will interact with, for example, iron alloys (steel), ending up with de-electonized protons migrating through the bulk metal, and at the other end snatching up some of the fermi-gas and going their merry way.
  The same way, in vacuum systems, getting rid out of the stupid hydrogen magically appearing out of nice stainless steel enclosures that have been ultrasonic cleaned and baked under vacuum is a real problem. I have seen suggestions of burning the whole chambers under vacuum at 650C to get the protons out, and even that isn't really the end of things.
  
  --
  HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
31. Re: Great... by SuricouRaven · 2013-11-04 22:08 · Score: 1
  
  Link to the channel, describe your plans, and get a cost estimate.
  Just make sure you use *real* helium, not that cheap balloon stuff diluted with air.
32. Re:Great... by GuB-42 · 2013-11-04 23:50 · Score: 1
  
  MRIs and other superconducting magnets are the biggest wasters of helium right now.
  They work on an open circuit because right now, it is cheaper to waste helium rather than trying to recycle it.
  Using helium for balloons is clearly a waste but it accounts for only 16% of total consumption. And that's for all kinds of balloons, including blimps.
Disks with helium? by buchner.johannes · 2013-11-04 04:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Finally a real cloud drive!

--
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
1. Re:Disks with helium? by Andrio · 2013-11-04 05:16 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  If they're taking flight, then they used too much helium.
  
  --
  The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
2. Re:Disks with helium? by jones_supa · 2013-11-04 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  If someone's facts are wrong, I don't see how that is trolling.
First Post! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 04:32 · Score: 1

Also, after reading the subject I wondered why they would strap harddisks onto a helium-filled balloon and send them into the sky...
1. Re:First Post! by MarioJE · 2013-11-04 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  Me too. I feel so deceived.
What the helium actually does by TWiTfan · 2013-11-04 04:32 · Score: 5, Informative

Here is a relevant portion FTA on what the helium actually DOES (unfortunately not mentioned in the summary):

At one-seventh the density of air, helium produces less drag on the moving components of a drive - the spinning disk platters and actuator arms -- which translates into less friction and lower operating temperatures.
The helium-drives run at four to five degrees cooler than today's 7200rpm drives, HGST stated.

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1. Re:What the helium actually does by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2013-11-04 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  Wow so how much could we fit on a vacuum drive?
  
  --
  Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
2. Re:What the helium actually does by Guido+von+Guido+II · 2013-11-04 04:46 · Score: 1
  
  My assumption is that either the helium performs some other function (as you said) or that it's just cheaper to use some kind of gas instead of a vacuum.
3. Re:What the helium actually does by pla · 2013-11-04 04:46 · Score: 2
  
  At one-seventh the density of air, helium produces less drag on the moving components of a drive - the spinning disk platters and actuator arms -- which translates into less friction and lower operating temperatures.
  
  Or even better, a vacuum of 0.147psi has one-one-hundredth the density of air. Both a vacuum and filling it with helium require making the drive air tight; and at least with 3.5" drives, they have an impressively strong frame that could certainly withstand a modest vacuum. Or better yet, do both! Fill it with low pressure helium, saving helium and getting even more reduction in friction.
  
  All that aside, though, I don't quite get the capacity boost - Drive capacity results from the number of platters and the areal density of bits on a platter. Friction has nothing to do with either of those constraints.
  
  Still, not complaining - About time I upgraded the drive size in my home file server. Funny how that works - Every year or so I add another drive, and then every five years or so I replace the whole array with two new drives having more total capacity than what I replaced.
4. Re:What the helium actually does by Deadstick · 2013-11-04 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  Why use helium to get a low density when vacuum has a density of zip point diddley and is easier to contain than helium?
5. Re:What the helium actually does by WalksOnDirt · 2013-11-04 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  Last I heard, hard drive heads flew over the disk surface on a thin film of air. It's hard to see that working in a vacuum.
  
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6. Re:What the helium actually does by dcw3 · 2013-11-04 04:56 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This might help you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height
  Heads fly, and you don't "fly" in a vacuum.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
7. Re:What the helium actually does by SuricouRaven · 2013-11-04 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  There's a fluid bearing effect holding the heads at optimum height.. Plus a lot of things - like plastics, and lubricants - tend to sublime under vacuum.
8. Re:What the helium actually does by Opportunist · 2013-11-04 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  Heat.
  
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  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
9. Re:What the helium actually does by Opportunist · 2013-11-04 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  Since when does not selling anything stop anyone from charging more?
  
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  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
10. Re:What the helium actually does by SJHillman · 2013-11-04 05:13 · Score: 2
  
  Just means we need to strap tiny rockets to our hard drive heads.
11. Re:What the helium actually does by pla · 2013-11-04 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  +5 insightful. Thank you!
12. Re:What the helium actually does by khallow · 2013-11-04 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Vacuum doesn't help you with heat dissipation. What I wonder is whether hydrogen would be even more effective since it is even lighter? I guess it'd react with the metals in the hard drive (eg, hydrogen embrittlement) and have even more leakage problems.
13. Re:What the helium actually does by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  because hard drives wont work without some gas inside.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
14. Re:What the helium actually does by hottoh · 2013-11-04 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Wow. Lots of non-techies reading /., but not reading about how things work.
  
  FYI, standard spinning hard drives fail at altitude. Meaning mountain climbing in places like the Himalayas are a great place to fail a spinning HDD due to lack of what? Atmospheric air pressure!
  
  "If less air resistance is the reasoning for using helium, why not have the drive internals run inside a vacuum? Wouldn't that be less expensive than helium as well?"
  
  Since basically since year one of the hard drive, people learned drives needed an air gap between the head and the platter.
15. Re: What the helium actually does by guruevi · 2013-11-04 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, air is a terrible insulator however it's easy to MOVE air around which is cheaper than many other fluids. Vacuum is even worse though as there is 'nothing' to transfer heat to or to the 'outside' and the only way to cool any object (or part of an object) in a vacuum (eg. in space) is by radiating the heat away. I think people have tried but so far unsuccessful of doing these precise rotations quickly in a fluid denser than gases (such as oils).
  
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16. Re:What the helium actually does by fisted · 2013-11-04 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Wait, I /am/ a techie, you insensitive clod. Take it back or phear my HTML programming skills.
  
  --
  CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
17. Re:What the helium actually does by Xyrus · 2013-11-04 11:08 · Score: 1
  
  They'd fly if they were made out of Superman!
  
  --
  ~X~
still a few kinks to work out by Thud457 · 2013-11-04 04:33 · Score: 5, Funny

all the MP3 sound like The Chipmunks.

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1. Re:still a few kinks to work out by Dabido · 2013-11-05 15:56 · Score: 1
  
  All my MP3's are by the Chipmunks. I have 'Chipmunk Punk' on continuos play. What's your point?
  
  --
  Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
Re:What took so long? by i+kan+reed · 2013-11-04 04:33 · Score: 1

Thanks for the armchair analysis. It was so obvious to you, that you just never bothered to speak up for the last several decades, because you figured everyone knew, right?
Well of course they take flight by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 04:33 · Score: 1

They're filled with helium.
1. Re:Well of course they take flight by David_Hart · 2013-11-04 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  They could be filled with Red Bull...
I can envision the advertisement for this product. by Applehu+Akbar · 2013-11-04 04:35 · Score: 2

The message would of course be delivered by Melissa Rauch:
"I was so tired of having to vacuum around Howard's RAID drives. Now we just keep them on the ceiling!"
Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Robotbeat · 2013-11-04 04:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

Helium tends to like to leak out of things. One has to wonder if the power consumption and reliability and speed of the drives will worsen after, say, a decade deployed in the field as the helium gradually is replaced by air. I suppose that has the added benefit for the hard drive manufacturer of a pretty firm drop-dead (or at least significantly reduced performance) date.
But the increased complexity of the technical approach, i.e. cramming more platters (and using fancy technical tricks like using helium) versus just increasing platter areal density, portends an end to the incredibly fast reduction in storage costs over the last three decades.
Another option may be to operate the devices in a soft vacuum (back-filled with a little bit of helium, perhaps). That may further reduce drag. However, I believe the heads rely on an air cushion in order to avoid contact with the platters, so there would be a limit to this.
1. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by sjames · 2013-11-04 04:49 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Depending on the seal, the drives likely will end up in a soft vacuum as the helium diffuses out but air cannot diffuse in as quickly. That might cause a head crash or it might cause a heating problem for internal components. Helium is a decent thermal conductor.
2. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Dracolytch · 2013-11-04 05:23 · Score: 2
  
  "portends an end to the incredibly fast reduction in storage costs over the last three decades."
  Disagree, it's just taking a turn you're not looking at. Solid state has just really started to take off in the mainstream. As the years go on, it will continue to get faster, cheaper, and more reliable. In a couple short years, we've already broken the $1/gig barrier.
  After that... Well, it's hard to tell. Many consumers are already running out of things to store on their computers. Heck, I'm in basically the same boat. Even corporations are getting comfortable "big data" setups for reasonable prices. I wonder how much longer until our storage systems get "big enough" for all but the most intense scientific and global data-mining applications...
  
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3. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Robotbeat · 2013-11-04 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  I'm going to bet that these aren't stand alone drives that you can buy and use off the shelf, but units that are installed as part of a system that has a helium supply.
  No hard drive is sealed. Not a single one you own or have ever seen. If they were then big changes in elevation would make them break due to ruptured seals and deformed geometry.
  Thus, these drives probably have a port for helium inlet so the internal atmosphere can be maintaned. (It would not take much. I'd imagine)
  This is concept is actually not new. I've seen old hard drives that were used in commercial storage systems that had an inlet for an inert gas (Argon I think) The storage system had a supply of gas to maintain the atmosphere inside the hardrive, presumably to control moisture and prevent corrosion.
  No drives I've ever owned have ever been back-filled with helium, either. Or have ever had 6TB a pop.
  Of course I know drives aren't usually sealed. But I find the idea of an external helium supply completely untenable. No one would buy it except maybe a few people who care nothing about cost and all about looking high-tech. It would increase maintenance and upfront costs while adding another single point of failure to the whole system. Way too expensive for dubious gain.
  No, there are two approaches that seem reasonable:
  1), there's a diaphram or piston which moves (passively) to maintain ambient pressure inside the device while maintaining a helium-tight seal.
  or:
  2) the drives are built mechanically to withstand whatever pressure differentials are necessary. The easiest way to do this (for the least mass) would be to slightly pressurize the drive above 1 atm.
4. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Robotbeat · 2013-11-04 06:25 · Score: 2
  
  "portends an end to the incredibly fast reduction in storage costs over the last three decades."
  Disagree, it's just taking a turn you're not looking at. Solid state has just really started to take off in the mainstream. As the years go on, it will continue to get faster, cheaper, and more reliable. In a couple short years, we've already broken the $1/gig barrier.
  After that... Well, it's hard to tell. Many consumers are already running out of things to store on their computers. Heck, I'm in basically the same boat. Even corporations are getting comfortable "big data" setups for reasonable prices. I wonder how much longer until our storage systems get "big enough" for all but the most intense scientific and global data-mining applications...
  For a while in the 1990s and 2000s, disk capacity was getting cheaper and denser faster than transistors were. Going to solid-state would mean a slowing of the rate of storage cost reduction (though there was already a slow-down exacerbated partially by that huge Thailand flood), not an increase. Besides, there are some big problems with scaling down the cell size in NAND flash while keeping the same error rate. If a significantly new technology doesn't rescue flash, we could be looking at an end to rapid cost reduction in data storage, or at least it would be slower than Moore's law.
  Which isn't to say I'm arguing that spinning disks will out-compete SSD. I expect solid-state to continue to eat away into spinning disk from here on out. Spinning disks have the big disadvantage of basically being up against pretty hard mechanical limits on latency and seek-time while SSD can improve continually in that regard.
5. Re:Helium hard drive technology limitations... by Aighearach · 2013-11-04 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  If demand for larger sizes dissipates, then the existing flash tech could simply mature and be made for many years off the same factory setup, pushing the cost way down.
Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 04:37 · Score: 5, Funny

And helium. Shut up I'm telling you how it works.
1. Re:Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by Opportunist · 2013-11-04 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  What? No lasers, no sharks? I'm sorely disappointed!
  
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2. Re:Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  and an 8th platter on the back for hard to reach data.
  
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  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
3. Re:Fuck everything, we're going to 7 platters. by EmagGeek · 2013-11-04 07:13 · Score: 2
  
  Screw that. My hard drive goes to eleven.
Shipping, but price not announced? by crow · 2013-11-04 04:42 · Score: 1

So when they say "shipping" do they mean they mailed themselves a demonstration model? They haven't announced the price yet.
Wake me up when you can order them from NewEgg.
(Though the technology is interesting.)
10 Years of Research & unpressurised by tomxor · 2013-11-04 04:43 · Score: 5, Informative

They spent 10 years researching how to reliably seal it into an enclosure...
Also it is not under the same requirements of a compressed gas canister. The whole point of using helium is for the advantages of it's fluid dynamics compared to a normal air mixture, that's why it's not pressurised.
I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure, but i suppose it's much easier to not deal with pressure difference and use a super low resistance fluid instead at the same atmospheric pressure.
1. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by SuricouRaven · 2013-11-04 05:01 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  They don't work in vacuum.
  Fluid interaction between spinning platter, gas and the heads creates an air bearing effect that holds the heads at a precisely determined (for a given linear velocity) height away from the disc. It's a stable system, so any slight vibration will be quickly compensated. Without a fluid filling, the heads would crash into the platter.
2. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by ShanghaiBill · 2013-11-04 05:03 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure
  Because the head would crash. The head does not just magically float a few micrometers above the disk platter. There is no way that any machine could be build so precisely. Instead of floating, it flies. The head is shaped like a tiny airfoil, and it use the ground effect of the air/helium/whatever to maintain the proper distance from the platter. This would not work in a vacuum.
3. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  There are many ways to measure heat in a vacuum, ever heard of telescopes? Outside that, you can mount the sensor to the heat sink. Your explanation is silly. There are better ones bellow. Don't be right for the wrong reasons.
4. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:24 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Without a fluid filling, the heads would crash into the platter.
  It seems the universal secret to success, whether you're throwing a ball or building a hard disk drive, is to bring the liquor out early and keep it comin'!
5. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by hottoh · 2013-11-04 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  Read "Weld to the platters".
  
  Mr. Bernoulli was on to something. ;)
  
  <quote><p>the heads would crash into the platter.</p></quote>
6. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by bzipitidoo · 2013-11-04 05:44 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yes, and if you take a conventional spinning platter hard drive to high altitudes, they will fail. At 17,000 ft, the atmosphere is too thin for them.
  
  --
  Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
7. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:44 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  They cant, hard drive absolutely rely on the Bernoulli principle to fly the heads, you have to have an atmosphere inside the drive for them to work.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
8. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by tomxor · 2013-11-04 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Then i suppose that means using a lower density fluid like hydrogen would also decrease the shock tolerance? unless it's possible to compensate by changing other characteristics such as actuator stiffness and length.
9. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Score+Whore · 2013-11-04 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  Are you levitating your platters? Heat comes from the mechanical and electronic components, not from friction with the air.
10. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by bmo · 2013-11-04 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  fluid filling,
  I prefer a creme filling.
  --
  BMO
11. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Solandri · 2013-11-04 07:37 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  They don't work in vacuum.
  That's true for a regular hard drive, but I'm not sure that's true in this case.
  
  e.g. A computer used at the ski resort in Mammoth Lakes experiences an air pressure about 25% less than sea level. So the volume of air inside the HDD enclosure wants to expand until it's 33% greater. With a regular HDD they just put in a filtered breathing hole to allow air in or out to equalize the pressure. This equalization is why the drive won't work in a near-vacuum.
  
  If they'd filled this with helium, I can think of two ways they're handling this expansion problem. They're either using a bladder with regular air inside, and the breathing hole goes to the bladder. That's the way we handled the problem in submersibles - oil compresses slightly more than water, so if you simply seal your thruster motors in an oil bath, the water pressure will crush them and cause the rotating parts to bind. Instead, you attach the oil reservoir to a flexible oil-filled bladder exposed to water. The bladder shrinks under pressure, equalizing the oil pressure inside the motor with the water pressure outside, without contaminating the motor with water.
  
  But since the HDD is bathed in a gas instead of a liquid, that wastes a lot of interior space - at least 33% if you want the drive to work at about 8000 ft, more if you want it to work higher. I'm not sure they have that much space available if they've crammed in 7 platters. So the other possibility is they've completely sealed the helium inside and the drive maintains the same internal pressure even at altitude.
  
  Either way, there's a minimum pressure below which the inside of the drive won't drop. In the latter case the pressure is constant. In the former case the minimum pressure is simply the pressure when the bladder is completely emptied of outside air - i.e. even in a vacuum there will still be pressure inside the drive. And if they're having to do that anyway, they'd be smart to make sure that low pressure was still sufficient to allow the drive to operate. That would make this drive the only (relatively) cheap large-capacity drive capable of being used in low ambient pressure applications which normally have to use flash storage or an SSD.
12. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by dacut · 2013-11-04 09:24 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Not Bernoulli; Navier-Stokes. The flyheight is regulated in a manner similar to fluid flow between parallel plates; Bernoulli uses lift generated by flow around a single wing with differential path lengths.
13. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by MozeeToby · 2013-11-04 10:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Very nice, insightful post, but not really what the parent posts were getting at. The original post that started the chain was something like "why don't they make the interior of the drive a vacuum rather than helium filled?" The answer was that the heads and the platters maintain proper distance using aerodynamic affects which wouldn't work if the drive were emptied of all air.
14. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by loosescrews · 2013-11-04 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  I would be concerned that if the ambient pressure dropped below some threshold there would be a chance that the thing would explode.
15. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by fuzzywig · 2013-11-04 21:40 · Score: 1
  
  If they're only selling to manufacturers, it's possible that they haven't attempted to make these drives work at altitude at all, and instead they'll rely on the manufacturers restricting their use to uses above a certain air pressure.
16. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 23:56 · Score: 1
  
  Each of these arms is tipped by a drive head (5), which is mounted on a tiny suspension mechanism that's designed to fly, thanks to a law known as Bernoulli's principle, a minuscule distance above the platters. The heads ride above the surface on a cushion of air that is created by the spinning of the platters.
  How do you think they fly? Bernoulli effect.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
17. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by Kentari · 2013-11-05 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  One atmosphere isn't very hard to contain and if it fails it would just pop, not explode.
18. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by RockDoctor · 2013-11-06 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  But since the HDD is bathed in a gas instead of a liquid, that wastes a lot of interior space - at least 33% if you want the drive to work at about 8000 ft, more if you want it to work higher. I'm not sure they have that much space available if they've crammed in 7 platters
  Good points. I've used systems with bellow chambers to provide pressure equalisation too.
  Note that most commercial airliners are pressurised to an approximate equivalent of 8-10 kft altitude. I wonder if that's why the warranty limits are at that level, as you imply.
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
19. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by RockDoctor · 2013-11-06 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Pressure relief valves are not exactly a new (or bulky, or low-reliability) technology.
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
20. Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised by tragedy · 2013-11-15 21:01 · Score: 1
  
  The case is solid so changes in external pressure would not cause the internal pressure to vary.
  I think perhaps you think that the cases of hard drives are a lot thicker than they actually are.
Re:A new spin on 'my hd exploded' by nctritech · 2013-11-04 04:43 · Score: 5, Funny

You're thinking hydrogen. This is HELIUM!
H = OH THE HUMANITY
He = OH THE CHIPMUNK HUMANITY
Re:What took so long? by sjames · 2013-11-04 04:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

Actually it's deceptively hard. Helium has a way of diffusing right through an air tight seal.
Re:I'll wait for the hydrogen model. by Guido+von+Guido+II · 2013-11-04 04:48 · Score: 1

I can't imagine that the amount of hydrogen in even a warehouse full of these things is much of a safety risk unless it all leaks out at once. But in the factory...
Re:Silly question by Mr+D+from+63 · 2013-11-04 04:49 · Score: 1

Helium also has the added advantage in that it is better than many other gases at transferring heat, something evidently overlooked in the article. A vacuum would minimize heat transfer to the case.
Re:Meh. I'm waiting for the hydrogen filled versio by bobbied · 2013-11-04 04:54 · Score: 1

Only when landing in Lakehurst NJ... Oh the Humanity...

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Re:I'll wait for the hydrogen model. by bobbied · 2013-11-04 04:55 · Score: 1

I hear it's going to explode on the market
Nah, it'll go down in flames.
For sure in New Jersey...

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Actually the problem with leaking hydrogen... by voss · 2013-11-04 04:58 · Score: 1

The problem with leaking hydrogen inside a computer case when it mixes with oxygen and forms water vapor. Condensation inside a computer would not be pleasant
1. Re:Actually the problem with leaking hydrogen... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  The problem with leaking hydrogen inside a computer case when it mixes with oxygen and forms water vapor. Condensation inside a computer would not be pleasant
  The hard drive is full of Helium, not Hydrogen. Helium doesn't mix with anything. It's a noble gas.
  Also, Hydrogen doesn't just spontaneously become water in the presence of oxygen (at normal temperatures). It needs to be run through a fuel cell or ignited to do that.
2. Re:Actually the problem with leaking hydrogen... by hottoh · 2013-11-04 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  You cannot be serious.
  
  Ever heard of heat of formation? Usually it is manifests itself as fire. Check the heat of formation for H and O atoms. It is not a small number.
  
  Since you seem to have skipped or failed HS chemistry I will share this. At room temperatures Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules do not spontaneously form water.
  
  Ever consider condensation from the water vapor in the atmosphere? Like what is inside HDD? It happens.
  
  "The problem with leaking hydrogen inside a computer case when it mixes with oxygen and forms water vapor. Condensation inside a computer would not be pleasant"
3. Re:Actually the problem with leaking hydrogen... by Anonymous+Crowbar · 2013-11-04 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  I was "trying" to be funny.
No Vacuum by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:01 · Score: 4, Funny

I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure
The heads have to have air or some gas to make them "fly". In a vacuum, the heads grind the oxide off the platters.
1. Re:No Vacuum by cbiltcliffe · 2013-11-04 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure
  The heads have to have air or some gas to make them "fly". In a vacuum, the heads grind the oxide off the platters.
  So THAT'S what IBM did wrong with the DeathStars!!
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Re:What took so long? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:03 · Score: 2

Welcome to Slashdot... where every advance is obvious and every technology is attempted to be debunked by high school level science knowledge.
Silly answer by Minwee · 2013-11-04 05:13 · Score: 1

Inside the drive a thin film of air is the only thing standing between the drive heads and platters. If the drive head gets too close to the surface, the air is compressed and pushes back on the head. Take that away and you'll be carving the platters like a pumpkin the first time anything bumps or shakes the drive.
Re:A new spin on 'my hd exploded' by Minwee · 2013-11-04 05:14 · Score: 2

Madness? THIS IS HELIUM!
Reminds me of... by LongearedBat · 2013-11-04 05:15 · Score: 2

I know more discs actually do make a difference, but it did remind me of this...
http://www.theonion.com/articles/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-blades,11056/
Re:What took so long? by hackertourist · 2013-11-04 05:24 · Score: 1

Even if that leads to the pressure inside the container being lower than outside? If the seal is airtight, there's nothing to replace the lost helium.
Clowns by Tim12s · 2013-11-04 05:25 · Score: 1

My First thought....A clown running around with helium filled disks... brain:WTF.
1. Re:Clowns by Valdrax · 2013-11-04 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  My First thought....A clown running around with helium filled disks... brain:WTF.
  The drive heads all float, down here.
  
  --
  If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Re:What took so long? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-04 05:27 · Score: 1

Welcome to Slashdot... where every advance is obvious and every technology is attempted to be debunked by high school level science knowledge.
Hey! You forgot the middle school level sociology and politics! Those of us in the clickbait political articles need some love too, you know!
IT people will start talking like Emo Phillips by JoeyRox · 2013-11-04 05:30 · Score: 1, Funny

With all that helium leaking in the server room.
Re:10 Years of Research & unpressurised, not by hottoh · 2013-11-04 05:40 · Score: 1

If you'd do a bit of reading the mystery is gone.

HDD heads require an gas (air) cushion to function properly. Bernoulli principle is what it is called.

<quote><p>I've always wondered why they didn't just use a near vacuum enclosure</p></quote>
Re:Silly question by Lumpy · 2013-11-04 05:52 · Score: 1

No you dont.
You need air inside so the heads fly, please please learn how hard drives really work before trying to pass off an answer to someone, all you are doing is spreading misinformation.
Far more heat transfer is from the metal-metal contact and ALL The heat is from the motors that are bolted to the frame already.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
why not use 100% nitrogen? by bzipitidoo · 2013-11-04 05:53 · Score: 1

If He is such a good idea, why not pure nitrogen? Lot cheaper than He.
Race cars use pure nitrogen for tires. It's a tiny bit lighter, it's less corrosive, and less thermodynamically expansive. Although, that would've killed James Bond-- there's a scene where the bad guys dump his car into a lake with him in it, and he survives by breathing the air from the tires.

--
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
1. Re:why not use 100% nitrogen? by Valdrax · 2013-11-04 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's not corrosion that concerns them but density, and nitrogen is only a fraction lighter than air. Too much money for too little benefit. (Honestly, much like nitrogen in tires of normal cars.)
  
  --
  If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
What the hell is a helium bomb? by Marrow · 2013-11-04 05:54 · Score: 1

A fusion bomb with heavy helium? Is there such a thing?
1. Re:What the hell is a helium bomb? by newcastlejon · 2013-11-04 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  A fusion bomb with heavy helium? Is there such a thing?
  Not unless you mind a bomb that becomes useless after 800ms or so.
  
  --
  If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
2. Re:What the hell is a helium bomb? by acsinc · 2013-11-04 08:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Most bombs become useless shortly after their first use anyway.
Re:What took so long? by King_of_Prussia · 2013-11-04 05:58 · Score: 1

There's still a concentration gradient, which will likely be stronger than any pressure gradient caused by leakage.

--
Making the moon less necessary since 1998.
Nitrogen reacts with stuff? by Marrow · 2013-11-04 05:59 · Score: 1

He not so much. Actually, the nitrogen is good because it does not leak out...its a big molecule. Maybe they want a small molecule for best effect.
1. Re:Nitrogen reacts with stuff? by jo_ham · 2013-11-04 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  Nitrogen is as close to a noble gas as you can get outside of group 18. It really doesn't like to react with anything without some serious forcing, or the use of an enzyme or catalyst.
2. Re:Nitrogen reacts with stuff? by undefinedreference · 2013-11-04 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Which is the very reason I question the marketing effort behind "nitrogen-enriched" fuel. I don't want the most common diatomic molecule in the atmosphere displacing good, energy-rich, hydrocarbon chains in the fuel I'm buying. It's like selling me gasoline with some percentage of ethanol blended in for the same price as gasoline or charging me more for pure ethanol (I will, however, make exceptions for pure ethanol made from a single grain type containing adulterants from being rested for an extended period in a barrel), that is, dishonesty in labeling.
3. Re:Nitrogen reacts with stuff? by jo_ham · 2013-11-04 08:04 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  When they talk about "nitrogen enriched" fuel they are talking about nitrogen compounds like NO2 and others - precisely because nitrogen *wants* to be N2, plus it's a good source of oxygen too. You absolutely want nitrogen compounds that are going to assist in the oxidation of those "energy rich" carbon chains, by bringing along oxygen and decomposing into N2 releasing gobs of energy.
  It's why explosives work too - pack your compound full of nitrogen in such a way that it will stoichiometrically decompose into a miscellaneous product and nitrogen gas, then give it a kick and let that massive triple bond enthalpy do the work for you.
  There's a reason high explosives are usually very high in nitrogen per unit mass.
  No dishonesty in labeling, just a misunderstanding of the chemistry involved.
4. Re:Nitrogen reacts with stuff? by undefinedreference · 2013-11-04 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, my comment was 95% joke. Their fuel that is "nitrogen enriched" does not contain additional volatile molecules. It's actually a marketing scheme for their detergent blend. Even though I'm sure it's similar to other detergents, the marketing also turns me off because NO2 is also a harmful pollutant (I suspect you were thinking of N2O when you typed that).
WD knows by frovingslosh · 2013-11-04 06:25 · Score: 2

Yea, nothing new here. Back in the mid 1970's I had a big 10 meg helium filled hard drive where I worked. Had it's own helium tank on it and the pressure gauge had to be checked regularly because helium can pretty much get through anything. That was a drive that was priced in the six figures, I doubt if WD is going to be doing any better even several decades later on a drive that costs a few hundred bucks and doesn't even have an extra helium tank. They more likely than not are counting on the leaking as a planned obsolescence issue.

--
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
dangers by edxwelch · 2013-11-04 06:32 · Score: 1

If you install a dozen of these drives in your system, will it start floating?
Pressure variations? by FishOuttaWater · 2013-11-04 06:34 · Score: 1

"That's great Jim, you got it to hold pressure at sea level! Now make it work at 10,000 feet."
Re:What took so long? by sjames · 2013-11-04 06:34 · Score: 2

Yes, there will be a soft vacuum. Of course, that vacuum will further challenge the seals air tightness. Essentially, in spite of a partial vacuum in the drive, a helium atom will have a non zero chance of diffusing out of the seal while a molecule of air will have a much much smaller chance of diffusing in.
I have to wonder by msobkow · 2013-11-04 06:34 · Score: 1

With all the reports of drive after drive failing from certain brands, I wonder what people are doing to their hard drives. Over 20 years, I've had ONE drive fail in a computer, and it was seven years old. My current 1TB Seagate is 9 years old.

--
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
1. Re:I have to wonder by msobkow · 2013-11-04 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  Mind you, I disable the "power saving" modes on my drives, and run my system 24x7, so there is *much* less opportunity for a head crash with the steady floating of the heads by keeping things moving. I'd been told many, many, many years ago that the biggest cause of failing hard drives was starting and stopping them instead of leaving them running. The same goes for the computer itself -- the biggest stress on the system is heating and cooling of the solder joints caused by powering down the system.
  
  --
  I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
2. Re:I have to wonder by ledow · 2013-11-04 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  It's chance. If you buy a thousand machines, chances are a few of them will ARRIVE with a duff hard disk.
  I'm a pedant with my own hardware and don't like to subject it to the slightest unnecessary heat/movement/stress but I still have had failures, from back in the days of 40Mb hard drives up to newer ones.
  It's just the way things are. Some people are lucky. Some assign it to superstitions about how they arrange their drives, what manufacturer they use or whatever. Fact is, every now and then one will go wrong.
  And the problem with hard drives is that, unlike most other components of a computer, you will REMEMBER when it stops working, even if you have adequate backups. I've done any amount of laptop hinges so I treat them as fragile items, but I don't handle hard drives especially carelessly any more. When the drive goes, it will cost me more in time and effort than anything else.
3. Re:I have to wonder by omnichad · 2013-11-04 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  You probably bought your hard drive before 500GB platters. Everything after that has gone somewhat downhill.
Does it fly because of the helium? by Alejux · 2013-11-04 06:53 · Score: 1

Hard drives talking flight? What will scientists invent next?!
1. Re:Does it fly because of the helium? by Koutarou · 2013-11-04 16:17 · Score: 1
  
  Explosive bolts for jettisoning failing drives.
  Stand clear!
Re:What took so long? by jones_supa · 2013-11-04 06:56 · Score: 3, Funny

Welcome to Slashdot... where every advance is obvious and every technology is attempted to be debunked by high school level science knowledge.
Additionally, if some technology is not 100% perfect, it's automatically completely useless. :P
Re:What took so long? by jones_supa · 2013-11-04 06:59 · Score: 1

Helium has a way of diffusing right through an air tight seal.
Duh, then use a helium tight seal. Deceptively simple. Another win for armchair technology designers.
Re:helium by jones_supa · 2013-11-04 07:02 · Score: 1

It indeed begs for the question: if measured with extremely accurate scale, would the helium-filled drive actually show a weight difference versus being filled with air? Also, a couple of guys above claim that it would actually be heavier than lighter. I dunno.
Lighter? by Frogstein · 2013-11-04 07:08 · Score: 1

The article notes "The new drive [...] is 38% lighter than the 4TB drives." Just how much helium is in these things, anyway?
...and is 38% lighter than the 4TB drives. by grep+-v+'.*'+* · 2013-11-04 07:21 · Score: 1

Well DUH! Of course! So -- increase the pressure 4x and have the drives floating above the computer or shelf.

That'd also make it easy to find any busted drives -- just look for the ones now sitting on the floor.

--
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
Storage Price Predictions 2013 by CopaceticOpus · 2013-11-04 07:28 · Score: 1

I evaluated storage prices in July 2009 and June 2012. This is a good chance to check how prices have changed.
What's the actual retail price for 10TB of storage?
July 2009: Platter = $750, Flash = $28,125
June 2012: Platter = $567, Flash = $8,200
November 2013: Platter = $450, Flash = $5,417
Based on the trends from 16 months ago, I would have expected the platter price for 10TB to be $495, and the flash price to be $4,506. Traditional drives beat my predictions, which seems to show that the industry has fully recovered from the various production and reliability issues which plagued the 3TB generation of drives. The pace of improvement for flash drives has slowed, but it's still jaw-droppingly quick. Will this pace continue to slow as the technical challenges become more complex?
New Prediction for July 2014: Platter = $416, Flash = $4,204
New Prediction for July 2015: Platter = $370, Flash = $2,875
New Prediction for July 2019: Platter = $231, Flash = $629
New Prediction for July 2024: Platter = $128, Flash = $94
This is all good news for the hard drive industry, and bad news for those of us hoping to stop relying on rapidly spinning disks. The predicted date when the technologies reach price equivalence is pushed back to May 2023, from the previous prediction of August 2020. If the pace of flash memory development continues to slow, and hard drives get a boost from helium technology, this date will drift even further out of reach. I don't want to imagine that hard drives could still have a meaningful role into the 2030's, but it's conceivable.
To end on a happier note for flash storage, consider that the price ratio for flash storage vs. platter storage was 37.5x in July 2009. After a little more than 4 years, the ratio is down to 12x! That's unbelievable progress, especially considering that flash technology is chasing a fast-moving target.
That woosh your heard by drainbramage · 2013-11-04 08:23 · Score: 1

was the sound of the helium bomb passing over your head.
Don't worry, it's the Shelium that bites.

--
No brain, no pain.
'Pet Peeve' in article by Muad'Dave · 2013-11-04 08:38 · Score: 1

Dear ComputerWorld,
The word is "manufacturers", not "manufactures". Sheesh!

--
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
oh good, hitachi by slashmydots · 2013-11-04 09:02 · Score: 1

Yay, what an amazing invention...oh wait, it's a Hitachi so it will fail after 366 days. Forget that then.
nobody does this by SuperBanana · 2013-11-04 09:33 · Score: 1

I thought conventional wisdom was to at least mix batches, if not brands.
I haven't done this in years, nor has anyone else I know. What I do instead is a badblocks test of every drive with before+after SMART parameter collection, and then a burn-in of a week or two, usually just part of bringing the system online.
We also limit ourselves to 2TB drives tops, because 3TB drives have a higher failure rate and 4TB drive failure rates are reportedly astronomical.

--
Please help metamoderate.
Re:The head never moves, the disk spins under it. by foobar+bazbot · 2013-11-04 11:11 · Score: 4, Informative

The head never moves, the disk spins under it. Putting a wing shape on the head wouldn't do anything.
It's too bad the disk doesn't drag some air along with it as it spins. If there was a layer of moving air along the boundary between the solid and gas, the heads could fly in that region.
Re:The head never moves, the disk spins under it. by cbiltcliffe · 2013-11-04 12:51 · Score: 1

The head never moves, the disk spins under it. Putting a wing shape on the head wouldn't do anything.
The spinning disk creates airflow close to it. This means the air is moving past the head, which creates the same effect as if the head was moving through the air.

--
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Ruins all my fun by Koutarou · 2013-11-04 16:01 · Score: 1

This takes away the fun I used to have with old failing hard drives: Install a webserver in a test rig with webcam pointed at the disk sitting out on a workbench, then remove the top cover and see how long it would live.
Re:The head never moves, the disk spins under it. by kermidge · 2013-11-04 17:31 · Score: 1

"It's too bad the disk doesn't drag some air along with it as it spins."
I do believe that there's a thin layer of air bound to, or dragged along with, the platters' surface - a few molecules thick, anyway. Some of this relates to both high-speed airfoil design and Tesla turbines, where they're dealing with somewhat coarser effects. A quick search pulled up a couple of pdfs on hard-disk platter stuff as well.
"boundary layer high speed disk platters" was my search
But by Pnarp · 2013-11-15 21:14 · Score: 1

But will it make my voice all squeaky if I breathe too close to it?

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