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Largest and Most Intense Tropical Cyclone On Record Hits the Philippines

mrspoonsi writes "A monstrous storm has arisen in the Western Pacific. The storm, called 'Supter-Typhoon Haiyan', has become the year's most intense. It bore down on the central Philippines this morning, packing winds up to 195 mph (314 km/h), with gusts up to 235 mph (378 km/h), threatening massive damage and sending over 100,000 people into evacuation centers. (Animation of landfall.) Flood waters went as high as 10 feet. The secretary general of the Philippine National Red Cross said, 'About 90% of the infrastructure and establishments were heavily damaged.'"

41 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by xmas2003 · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the article:

    It's estimated central pressure is 899 mb but it could be lower. The lower the pressure the stronger the storm. Since 1987, there have been only four storms in the western Pacific with a central pressure below 899 mb (Megi in 2010, 885 mb; Flo in 1990 890 mb; Ruth in 1991 895 mb; and Yuri in 1991 895 mb)

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    1. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a correlation between central pressure and wind speed but there are other factors affecting wind speed, such as the storm's mass (size) and wind mixing depths. This is why the NHC uses dropsondes rather than relying on pressure measurements or satellite estimates.

    2. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's only been ONE hurricane to ever make landfall in the US with that low a pressure, the 1935 labor day hurricane. To put the numbers in perspective Sandy made landfall at 945mb and Katrina at 920mb.

      --
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    3. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's only been ONE hurricane to ever make landfall in the US with that low a pressure, the 1935 labor day hurricane.

      Hurricanes (and typhoons) lose strength when they move over cooler water, so the strongest storms are those that stay in the tropics as they proceed westward. So the most intense Atlantic storms make landfall in Central America rather than the US coast. Wilma (2005) was the most intense Atlantic storm ever recorded, at 882 mbar, and Gilbert was a close second at 882 mbar. Both made landfall in Central America.

    4. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      And the Pacific basin is larger. More space for the hurricane to develop without hitting land.

    5. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let's also be clear that no direct measurements were took. Everything about the storm from its windspeed to minimum pressure is an estimate based on meteorological theory. Only in the Atlantic basin do they fly aircraft into cyclones and actually figure out what the pressure and wind-speed actually are.

    6. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      And the Pacific basin is larger. More space for the hurricane to develop without hitting land.

      True, but that only explains part of it. The South Pacific is even larger than the North Pacific, but fewer big storms occur there. In fact, there are fewer big storms anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere. Oceans in the Southern Hemisphere tend to be cooler because of the Antarctic icebox, and the wind shear is stronger and can tear apart storms before they really get started.

    7. Re:Typhoons are ranked my pressure, not winds by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      Stepping back from the min/max recordkeeping for a bit, the size of the storm also makes a huge difference in the amount of damage it causes. Even if a storm is powerful, its impact may be minimal if it's small in size. From what I can tell from news reports, Haiyan is about half the diameter of the largest and strongest typhoon on record - Typhoon Tip. About 2200 km vs about 1200 km.

      The diameter (extent of tropical storm-force winds) of hurricane Katrina was about 600 km, which is rather large for a storm. Hurricane Sandy (largest on record in the Atlantic) was about 1500 km across. I have to remind my European friends about this when they comment about the long recovery time from these storms for a "so-called" first-world nation. These storms were as large or larger than entire European countries - recovery efforts in an area that large are going to be slow even in a first-world country.

      The rate of travel and rainfall amounts matter too. Hurricane Mitch was only a category 1 when it made landfall and a tropical storm or tropical depression most of its time over land, but it's the second deadliest Atlantic hurricane on record because it lingered for almost two weeks dropping torrential rain causing massive flooding and landslides.

  2. Re:oh noes by captainpanic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would say that a huge storm that can possibly make millions of people homeless, and kill thousands would definitely fit the description "stuff that matters".

  3. Mobilize the Help Now by b4upoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I imagine the suffering from this storm will be severe and can only hope that the help was mobilized before the storm struck. These storm victims are going to need everything to survive. Food, housing and medical care as well as tools and livestock to start over could save countless lives. Imagine a storm that severe striking Miami or New York.

    1. Re:Mobilize the Help Now by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 2

      We're not going to stop helping people internationally in the case of major disasters no matter how much ugly, selfish people want to stop aid. Americans aren't overall so selfish and deeply stupid as to deny help.

      Even if one is selfish but not completely stupid, they'll understand that other nations come running when we need help too.

  4. Level 7 on modified Saffir scale by peter303 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Saffir scale tops out Level 5, > 157 mph. But each level increases about 20-25 mph. It is essentially a 500 mile wide tornado.

    1. Re:Level 7 on modified Saffir scale by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      I saw the number 500, and immediately thought of this. While not quite 500 MPH, this one got up to 378 km/h, which makes me think 500 km/h isn't impossible. Living in Canada, in an area where there fiercest winds we have are 100 km/h, It's hard to imaging how strong a 378 km/h wind is. Especially since E = (m * v^2)/2. which means the Energy of the wind is increases as a function of the square of the speed.

      --

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    2. Re:Level 7 on modified Saffir scale by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Living in Canada, in an area where there fiercest winds we have are 100 km/h

      Really? Really? Come on man, I'm in Alberta right now and we see 120km/h and 130km/h gusts through the mountains, and we haven't even hit on tornado's, updrafts(favorite in southern ontario), microbursts, and those lovely unpredictable t-storms in the summer that spawn in the lakes, or prairies. We sure do see winds higher than 100km/h.

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  5. Re:Name by captainpanic · · Score: 4, Informative

    Haiyan is the name given to the super typhoon by the World Meteorological Organization (source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24863480 )

    What I understood is that the Philippines counts the number of storms that hit the country (this is the 25th this year!!), so in their counting, it gets a name with a Y. (Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2013/11/08/from-haiyan-to-yolanda-how-the-philippines-names-its-storms/ )

  6. Re:oh noes by Krojack · · Score: 2

    But what can the /. community do? We're all underpaid tech nerds living off Ramen noodles. =(

  7. Largest and most intensive trop system since Charo by JoeyRox · · Score: 3, Funny
  8. Tornado the size of a hurricane by karchie · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm no meteorologist but those wind speeds would make this an F4 tornado. We get tornadoes here in the middle of North America, but they don't last for days. Good luck to everybody there.

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    1. Re:Tornado the size of a hurricane by omnichad · · Score: 2

      With gusts up to an EF-5.

  9. Re:Manbearpig in 5...4...3... by fermion · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes. Obama created this storm to destroy his Kenyan birth certificate that his mother secreted at an Indonesia Bank as it was foretold by a witch doctor before his birth that he would one day be president and it would be necessary to conspire to plant a fake birth certificate and an announcement in a Hawaii while securely deposited the real documents in a place far from the reach of the Fancy Haired One that would someday come searching for it. This not so farfetched. I have seen many claims that this supernatural powered president created Sandy to win the election. Two Sup(t)er Storms! How grand.

    --
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  10. Re:typical American imperialism by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 2

    Are you serious? The average American weighs 450lb.

  11. Re:oh noes by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah how dare they live where natural disasters could hit! They should be in one of the few regions in North America or Europe which have an unusually low number of natural disasters. Anywhere else and you might as well be sitting on god's shooting range like those crazy Japanese who nobody ever offers aid to due to their recklessness.

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  12. Re:oh noes by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    This one goes beyond the bad category, is not the same falling from a chair than falling from the top of a building. We are getting a hint on how bad could be "extreme" weather, much stronger than Sandy and Katrina. You really don't want any of this "bad weather" hit any place near you, and it could become the new normal.

  13. bet they are happy .... by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    That US bases there. Plenty of extra help.

    --
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    1. Re:bet they are happy .... by varmfskii · · Score: 2

      Can't have the U.S. back unless they amend their constitution. It currently prohibits the stationing of foriegn troops in the Philippines.

  14. Some relief agencies by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm sure that the relief agencies would be happy to take a donation. I think these are correct, but double check for yourself. I apologize for not including everybody, please don't let that stop you from making a donation.

    American Red Cross
    British Red Cross
    Canadian Red Cross
    Australian Red Cross
    New Zealand Red Cross
    Irish Red Cross
    Deutsches Rotes Kreuz
    Croix-Rouge Francaise
    Röda Korset
    Røde Kors
    Røde Kors
    Rode Kruis
    Schweizerisches Rotes Kreuz
    Croce Rossa Italiana
    Cruz Roja Española
    Polski Czerwony Krzyz

    Salvation Army donations

    --
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  15. followup to recent 7.1 earthquake by jcgam69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    A magnitude 7.1 earthquake struck the PI a few weeks ago which cause widespread damage to buildings and infrastructure. Bridges collapsed and many roads are still impassible. The earthquake and hundreds of strong aftershocks serve to intensify the effects of this storm.

  16. Re:Manbearpig in 5...4...3... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Interesting,eh? This is when Slashdot moderation gets scary.

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  17. Re:Not for anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just hope the red light cameras get knocked out first. I'd hate to see the ticket when my car gets blown through a red light when moving near 200MPH!

  18. Re:oh noes by Sique · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone with a brain mod the grandparent flamebait. Poor planning doesn't kill. Planks falling down from houses do. Poor planning, overpopulation and lack of education just decrease the life expectation by increasing the chance of an early death.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  19. Re:oh noes by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    People are welcome to live where they want, but it does help to build something strong enough to keep the rain out. There is no such thing as a 'natural' disaster. Poverty and corruption and negligence are responsible for the suffering.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  20. Typhoon Ida (1958) was more intense by Sara+Chan · · Score: 2

    Typhoon Ida (1958) had sustained winds of 200mph. That means that the energy in its winds was about 5% greater than the energy in the 195mph winds of Typhoon Haiyan (squaring speed to get approximate wind energy).

    1. Re:Typhoon Ida (1958) was more intense by FirstOne · · Score: 2

      Super typhoon Ida achieved it's maximum intensity well out at sea when it had a tiny eye, similar to Wilma when it rapidly intensified in it's early stages. Ida subsequently lost most of energy before it landfall in Japan as a cat-3.

      Meanwhile Super Typhoon Haiyan made landfall at near peak intensity with an eye wall diameter of nearly 20km..

      .

  21. Re:oh noes by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah how dare they live where natural disasters could hit! They should be in one of the few regions in North America or Europe which have an unusually low number of natural disasters.

    People tend to live in places which have some unique economic advantage: fertile ground, a navigable river or deep water port. The miner will be looking for mountain-building, the rancher, grasslands on which to raise cattle. To get what you want you can't always play it safe.

  22. When they come to clean it up... by BobMcD · · Score: 2

    ...hopefully they'll leave the cholera at home this time.

  23. Re:oh noes by DexterIsADog · · Score: 2

    Walk up to a New Jerseyite whose beach house on LBI was flattened by Sandy and tell him it wasn't a natural disaster, it was "corruption and negligence" (not poverty, those houses aren't cheap). Go ahead, tell him that. Then report back your findings.

  24. Re:oh noes by fustakrakich · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeah, fuck 'em. I feel the same about the assholes who rebuilt their houses in the same place they were flooded out by the Mississippi river, and demanded to be covered by their insurance at the same rates! The Mexicans sat under Wilma for 48 full hours and nobody died and property damage was minimal, including the houses on the beach. Lights were back on in the center of town in less than 12 hours. Well made concrete and underground electrical lines hold up pretty well. Sorry, I cannot sympathize. Their houses were flattened because they were not built to withstand a little wind and rain. A hurricane should not be a big deal. And they aren't with a little foresight and proper planning, and a lot less tolerance for corrupt government/corporate power. They serve as a reminder to stock up on more beer.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Re:oh noes by OneAhead · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wilma had wind speeds of 240 km/h at the time it made landfall in Mexico. Haiyan had wind speeds of 315 km/h when it made landfall (highest wind at landfall ever recorded). Knowing that structural stress on buildings goes approximately with the square of the wind speed (kinetic energy and things), that's almost twice as powerful. Many general aviation airplanes (for example the cessna 172) have "never exceed speeds" that are lower than 315 km/h; in other words, if you make a dive and reach that kind of speed, you're at risk of your airplane disintegrating. I have strong doubts about the economic feasibility of building houses that can reliably withstand such wind speeds, especially in poorer countries. It's like trying to mount a house on top of a (non-American) high-speed train and take it to top speed.

  27. Re:oh noes by OneAhead · · Score: 2

    ...so instead of making snarky remarks on the internet about unrealistic building standards and people making the bad choice of being born in a poor country, better pray for those who will lose their lives in that monster.

  28. different beasts, but yeah by almechist · · Score: 2

    I'm no meteorologist but those wind speeds would make this an F4 tornado. We get tornadoes here in the middle of North America, but they don't last for days. Good luck to everybody there.

    Very strong tropical cyclones like this one do contain very high sustained winds equivalent to what you would find in a significant (F3 or higher) tornado, which is why the NWS occasionally issues blanket tornado warnings for areas lying in the path of the most intense and dangerous part of a hurricane's eyewall, which is usually the NE quadrant. The practice is controversial, though, and has been inconsistently applied. Keep in mind that wind speed isn't everything when it comes to how much damage is done by a storm, in a tornado there are sudden shifts in pressure and wind direction that you wouldn't necessarily find in a cyclone's eyewall, while the winds from a cyclone generally last a lot longer and of course with a cyclone you also have storm surge and flooding to worry about. Both types of storm are incredibly dangerous, but a structure that might survive the one could still be totally wiped out by the other, and vice versa, even if the wind speeds involved were pretty much the same.