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Art Makes Students Smart

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "For many education advocates, the arts supposedly increase test scores, generate social responsibility and turn around failing schools but research that demonstrates a causal relationship has been virtually nonexistent. Now the NY Times reports that with the opening of the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, a large-scale, random-assignment study (abstract) of school tours to the museum has determined that a strong causal relationship does in fact exist between arts education and a range of desirable outcomes. Students who, by lottery, were selected to visit the museum on a field trip demonstrated stronger critical thinking skills, displayed higher levels of social tolerance, exhibited greater historical empathy and developed a taste for art museums and cultural institutions. Moreover, most of the benefits are significantly larger for minority students, low-income students and students from rural schools — typically two to three times larger than for white, middle-class, suburban students — owing perhaps to the fact that the tour was the first time they had visited an art museum. Further research is needed to determine what exactly about the museum-going experience determines the strength of the outcomes. How important is the structure of the tour? The size of the group? The type of art presented? 'Clearly, however, we can conclude that visiting an art museum exposes students to a diversity of ideas that challenge them with different perspectives on the human condition,' write the authors. 'Expanding access to art, whether through programs in schools or through visits to area museums and galleries, should be a central part of any school's curriculum.'"

187 comments

  1. Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Funny

    THIS much difference from ONE field trip to a museum? Why, by all that is correlated, we MUST start opening up museums like 7-11s! There should be one on every streetcorner!

    1. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      I should add, all sarcasm aside: I really do love museums and I really do think they're valuable and educational.

      But these claimed results are a little hard to swallow.

    2. Re:Holy Crap!!! by artor3 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The study doesn't claim a big difference. The results were only 5% to 10% of a standard deviation. But they were statistically significant. And since the students were picked at random and had the tests administered after the fact, you can't argue correlation-but-not-causation. (What, do you think that performing well on a test improves your ability to have your name picked out of a hat six months ago?)

    3. Re:Holy Crap!!! by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 1

      Depends.
      Was the tested subject time machines, or temporal magics?

    4. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like to believe that this is true, but can we confirm that everyone who had their name picked out went, and everyone who didn't, didnt?

      In a more general sense, it's clear around me that an appreciation of art develops thinking skills in unrelated fields. The dullest geeks I have the misfortune to associate with are those who think that nothing is important beyond their own tiny little corner of knowledge - it's not their ignorance which is grating, but their paucity of reasoning power.

    5. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Interesting

      THIS much difference from ONE field trip to a museum? Why, by all that is correlated, we MUST start opening up museums like 7-11s! There should be one on every streetcorner!

      If you take a kid from the hood who's only ever seen turf wars, people fighting and other gang 'bidness' and show him something past the end of his street then it probably has an effect, yes.

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:Holy Crap!!! by narcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you can't argue correlation-but-not-causation.

      Sure you can. The fact that they went to an art museum may be completely irrelevant. It could be as simple as students being singled out for special, positive, attention. It puts me in mind of Mayo's Hawthorne experiments.

      Causality is hard, particularly in social research. I haven't read the paper, though the abstract doesn't suggest any attempt to control for rather obvious confounders. Of course, the abstract doesn't mention a causal relationship at all, so this could just be another case of bad science reporting.

      When I read "Further research is needed to determine what exactly about the museum-going experience determines the strength of the outcomes" in the summary, I cringe a bit -- it ought to read "Further research is needed to determine if it was the museum-going experience at all".

    7. Re:Holy Crap!!! by wisty · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > Several weeks after the students in the treatment group visited the museum, we administered surveys to all of the students. The surveys included multiple items that assessed knowledge about art, as well as measures of tolerance, historical empathy and sustained interest in visiting art museums and other cultural institutions. We also asked them to write an essay in response to a work of art that was unfamiliar to them.

      > These essays were then coded using a critical-thinking-skills assessment program developed by researchers working with the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston.

      Then from the actual article (well ... the abstract):

      > Students who participated in the School Visit Program demonstrated significantly stronger critical thinking skills when analyzing a new painting.

      So basically, visiting a museum makes students a little more interested and knowable about art. I'm not sure that actually makes them better thinkers (unless they want to be art critics).

      The tolerance thing is the only really interesting thing. I guess learning about history (especially in an engaging way, even if it's a little shallow) can put things in perspective. You would equally say that watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos could help students see the big picture.

    8. Re:Holy Crap!!! by apol · · Score: 1
      Personally I believe in the stated causation. But if one wants to be skeptical, there is always a way:
      • The causation comes not from going to museums but from the feeling of being lucky.
      • The causation exists because of the negative effects induced by the alternative activity proposed to those who didn't go to the museums
      • In the museums the guide talked about tolerance and most of the students never had heard about this concept. So it was what was said not the contact with the art itself.

      For me unfortunately a scientific claim made about humans is accepted if and only if it seems reasonable.

    9. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt they can even prove that small of a difference. 'Studies' like these are a joke, as we have no idea what intelligence is. I know what it's not, though: Memorizing facts, patterns, or procedures, and then spewing them back on a test.

      Now, if these students did something innovative (and we could prove it was because of the art nonsense), then I'd personally be more impressed. Unfortunately, they didn't do anything impressive or even important.

    10. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a more general sense, it's clear around me that an appreciation of art develops thinking skills in unrelated fields.

      I don't see why or how that could be, but strangely enough, I've often found similar things to be true about people who like what I like. People who like the same things as me are usually intelligent, and people who don't simply... aren't. Very mysterious!

    11. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      Yes yes very clever.

      Making the effort to appreciate things that you do NOT necessarily have much care for helps to focus/train/expand your mind. It's not about people liking things I like - it's about breaking out of your and my comfort zones.

    12. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Talderas · · Score: 1

      This was my initial thought. Was it the museum visit or was the it the singling out and elevating of the students as special or different from their peers that had the effect.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    13. Re:Holy Crap!!! by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I should add, all sarcasm aside: I really do love museums and I really do think they're valuable and educational. But these claimed results are a little hard to swallow.

      I have no doubt art is valuable. Just not to the folks who "win" something and then choose to not go to a field trip.

      The kids who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff have.... wait for it... parents who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff. Those parents, are ALSO more likely to approve a field trip.

      They need to be looking at the kids who "won" but didn't go. THOSE are going to be a pile of nigh-dregs of society, because their parents are, and the results of the study will be necessarily skewed the way they wanted, and found.

    14. Re:Holy Crap!!! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      But these claimed results are a little hard to swallow.

      Perhaps because the study's funder had a vested interest in the outcome? I'll believe it when I see it replicated. If the results are real, then lots of kids should be going to museums, and there should be plenty of data.

    15. Re:Holy Crap!!! by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      "Further research is needed to determine what exactly about the museum-going experience determines the strength of the outcomes"

      Allow me to translate that into non-grant-proposal-writing-scientist-language:
      "It was fun to study this, please give us more money so we can continue having fun."

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    16. Re:Holy Crap!!! by u38cg · · Score: 1

      It doesn't "make" them better, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that it makes them more motivated, which is really the main driver behind intellectual achievement.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    17. Re:Holy Crap!!! by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      This is northwest Arkansas. It's lily-white and rural. Not that that doesn't have its own pathologies, but being the hood isn't one of them.

    18. Re:Holy Crap!!! by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      The kids who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff have.... wait for it... parents who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff.

      Not necessarily.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    19. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't given any sort of plausible explanation. Just more feel-good fluff.

    20. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I didn't read the NYT article, but I did read the abstract. It explains what the test was about:

      Students who participated in the School Visit Program demonstrated significantly stronger critical thinking skills when analyzing a new painting .

      In other words, the kids that visited the museum of art managed to learn something about art, somehow slightly more than kids that didn't ... learn about art at the museum. That's no surprise - the "study" was designed to succeed.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    21. Re:Holy Crap!!! by trongey · · Score: 1

      Actually, you can make the correlation/causation argument, and the authors did so: "Further research is needed to determine what exactly about the museum-going experience determines the strength of the outcomes. How important is the structure of the tour? The size of the group? The type of art presented? "
      But in this case the correlation is important on its own. Something about these visits was beneficial to the children, and having visited this museum I suspect that both the art and the way it's presented are factors.

      --
      You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
    22. Re:Holy Crap!!! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yes, always be aware of the corrupting influence of money. Short of outright fabricating the data(not impossible), how do you posit bias was injected into the study?

    23. Re:Holy Crap!!! by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      You were sarcastic, but I'd argue that museums probably contribute more to society than 7-11s. I'd also hazard a guess that spending tax dollars on opening tons of museums would probably do more for our country than your average tax expenditure.

    24. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only 5% to 10% of a standard deviation? Now I admit that my statistics skills are weak, so that makes what kind of confidence level? It sounds dubious to make any claim other than "we should look further" with that kind of result.

    25. Re:Holy Crap!!! by dyingtolive · · Score: 1

      The kids who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff have.... wait for it... parents who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff. Those parents, are ALSO more likely to approve a field trip.

      There's a rare subset of kids who are smart, driven, and interested particularly because they see what a sad waste of energy their parents are. Not me, but I've had enough friends this was the case for that I feel it warrants mention. I believe you are your upbringing, but not always in the ways that seem obvious.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    26. Re:Holy Crap!!! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      (What, do you think that performing well on a test improves your ability to have your name picked out of a hat six months ago?)

      ::yawn::
      Hypothesis: Field Trips to the Museum cause students to get better grades. Null Hypothesis: Field Trips have nothing to do with getting better grades.

      Now, in order for any of the evidence for your hypothesis to mean anything beyond confirmation bias, it must be statistically significant more so than the null hypothesis (which is accepted as true by default otherwise). This is the mechanism for that whole "disprovability" thing that scientists require of theories.

      Since I've posted this now several times over the last few days I've started wondering about what's being taught in science classes nowadays. Turns out that the Null Hypothesis has disappeared from science curriculum all the way up though high school. WTF. I've got a science book printed in the 50's that includes the null hypothesis. Know what else? Mathematics curriculum is severely dumbed down today than the textbooks in the 50's too.

      Hypothesis: Teaching from less informative textbooks and curriculum causes ignorance in students. Null Hypothesis: Textbooks and curriculum don't influence learning. Evidence: The decline of intellect in school children over the past half decade.

      Fuck Museums. We need the elites to stop dangling cash carrots for grades -- Economics would seem to corroborate: If the grades get the money, then the solution with the least effort required (lowering the curriculum) is what will most likely occur.

      There. 30 minutes on Google Books/Scholar and Gutenberg and I've found the fucking education system problem. These morons are wasting how much money on studying FIELD TRIPS!?!? I'm sorry, fire the fuckers, they're inept, distractions, and/or a waste of money. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether the corporations trying to sell shit to the populace want them smart or dumbed down.

    27. Re:Holy Crap!!! by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      There's a rare subset of kids who are smart, driven, and interested particularly because they see what a sad waste of energy their parents are.

      I have a friend like that. She is so different from her siblings in her intellect and drive, and while she's a lot like her mother in some ways, as much as she loves her father, she's nothing like him. He's 6'4" and skinny as a rail, she's 5' and round. He's uneducated, extremely conservative and a bible thumper, and she's college educated, heavily invested in the sciences, and herself an educator. He...

      Well, about five years ago, her mother confided to her that for a couple of years before she (my friend) was born, she was having an affair with the the husband from another couple that she (the mother) and the father had been playing bridge with. I saw a picture of the biological father, and he's the spitting image of my friend's first son. It's crazy.

      And guess what? He's educated, a successful entrepreneur, politically liberal, involved in his religious community but not a bible thumper. I'm sure there's some nurture in there, but nature seems to be pretty important, at least in her case...

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    28. Re:Holy Crap!!! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you're either young and childless or, like me, got lucky. Both of my kids turned out fine, but I know guys with sons, where one son is hard working, literate, successful and another who is a lazy, uninterested, aliterate alcoholic drug abuser.

      I also know some people my kids' ages who had terrible parents but turned into good, productive members of society.

    29. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Udom · · Score: 1

      "you can't argue correlation-but-not-causation"... If you're assuming that the Art was the cause you can. The Art is only one part of the experience and the context it's presented in is likely much more significant. The context conveys it's importance and it's association with wealth. In some ways it mimics the environment in a church, where people speak in hushed tones. It would be useful to put the same paintings in a thrift store, march another group of kids round and then do the same tests later. Or put truly garbage Art on the museum walls and do the same tests.

    30. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "And since the students were picked at random and had the tests administered after the fact, you can't argue correlation-but-not-causation."

      Yes, you can. As someone else mentioned up above, there is probably a significant (large?) amount of self-selection going on here.

      Do parents with lower IQs or education value a visit to a museum enough to allow their kids to go? Do poorer parents have the money to make a sack lunch, drop the kids off at school, or whatever other preparations for the visit are necessary? Etc.

      I'm not saying there *IS* bias, but there is enough potential for self-selection here that we should most definitely not assume that correlation = causation in this case. We would need LOTS more information -- likely more than the experimenters have -- to come to that conclusion.

    31. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ,

      Why, by all that is correlated, we MUST start opening up museums like 7-11s! There should be one on every streetcorner!

      I am in Canada, this will not work. We already have a Tim Hortons on every corner. :)

    32. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second that motion.

    33. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing wrong with self-selection. The OISM petition is how we know there isn't a scientific consensus about CAGW, and all the names on it are self-selected. Whose side are you on, anyway?

    34. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If the mum is more like the biological dad (rather than the official one) and is raising the friend then maybe nurture also has a lot to do with it. Maybe the mum is encouraging traits that attracted her to the man she had the affair with. As this would increase the chances of your friend not growing up like the official (rather than biological) dad and also being more like her (the mum):

      she's college educated, heavily invested in the sciences, and herself an educator

    35. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and Carl Sagan's Cosmos was a work of art. Quite an impressive one might I add. Look, some art is crap and the theories of art can be a little bit wanky. But, if you've ever practiced sciences and arts simultaneously ideas from one feed into the other a lot more easily than you might think, not to mention that art is a form of intelligence just as much as science. Both having academic components, vis, academic form of intelligence. And here's the thing we're not clear on - what was the theme of the exhibitions? Maybe it's not just seeing art that counts, it's seeing art that has relevance to the student or their studies in some way. Or at least helps them feel like the universe is bigger and more interesting than the boring little corner they've been subjected to since birth.

    36. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but 40 years on, I've forgotten most of the days I spent in the classroom. But I remember most of the field trips, and life lessons that I learned on them.

      I'm not at all surprised that kids that visited a good museum once outperformed kids that had never visited one, on many different measures. Educational visits are big influences on children's minds.

    37. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The kids who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff have.... wait for it... parents who are smart, driven, and interested in stuff. Those parents, are ALSO more likely to approve a field trip.

      If you can think of a potential flaw in the few seconds between reading a summary and posting a message, why would you assume that the scientists that did the study didn't think of that and account for it? Unless you've read the actual paper, don't make assumptions that the scientists are stupid.

    38. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Sure you can. The fact that they went to an art museum may be completely irrelevant. It could be as simple as students being singled out for special, positive, attention.

      They don't appear to have been singled out. The selection seems to have been by school group, not individual.

      So the causation of field trips, vs not having field trips seems sound. Even if the actual destination being an art gallery is open to question.

    39. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You would equally say that watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos could help students see the big picture.

      Well, except for the fact that you don't have evidence for that. It's a bit strange pulling apart a scientific study about the good effects of visiting an art gallery and then adding an assumption about something else that you want to believe is true, even thought you have no evidence for it.

    40. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The causation comes not from going to museums but from the feeling of being lucky.

      I can't see it. This wasn't a lottery of students. It was a lottery of groups. It's unlikely the schools even mentioned the field trip to the students until the school had won the place. Why raise their hopes only to dash them.

    41. Re:Holy Crap!!! by narcc · · Score: 1

      So says the guy with no scientific credentials what-so-ever.

    42. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      Well, someone's defensive about their ignorance!

      I haven't given a plausible explanation for how taking your mind out of its comfort zone will improve it?

      How about starting with... the original article cited in the summary.

    43. Re:Holy Crap!!! by AIphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Well, someone's defensive about their ignorance!

      Doesn't seem defensive to me. But really, if you're going to take that route, the same could be said of you.

      I haven't given a plausible explanation for how taking your mind out of its comfort zone will improve it?

      You haven't shown that it will improve it in any important, measurable way; certainly not in a way that leads to innovative critical thinking. And no, the garbage you refer to in the next sentence demonstrates no such thing.

    44. Re:Holy Crap!!! by AIphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Says the guy who uses the username "narcc." Therefore, all of your arguments are completely incorrect.

    45. Re:Holy Crap!!! by narcc · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's the point.

        Of course, he was supposed to catch that. I had hoped the thread was old enough that it would go unnoticed by every one else.

      It's long and uninteresting story.

    46. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting thought. How would you control a study like this for the placebo effect?

      How about: the placebo group gets a trip to the Creation Museum?

    47. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      The premise concerns people who think that nothing outside their limited sphere of expertise is "important" - focussing on art, it concerns people who have no appreciation of something which is not apparently useful to them.

      My hypothesis is merely that they are dumber for it. But you're adding the first condition that any mental improvement is "important". Now either you're carelessly or deliberately equivocating. If the first case, you're overlooking that the first "important" is based on the opinion of the subject, while the second is based on the opinion of the tester - in which case a more objective description should be applied. If the second, you're trying to impose the opinion of the subject (your being one, clearly) on the tester.

      Your second condition is measurability, and that's fair.

      Your third condition is "innovation", which is so weasely that I'm going to titter quietly and hitherto think of you as AlphaWeasel_HK.

    48. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "There's nothing wrong with self-selection. The OISM petition is how we know there isn't a scientific consensus about CAGW, and all the names on it are self-selected. Whose side are you on, anyway?"

      I'm not on anybody's side about this. There is something wrong with self-selection when you're doing a study to find correlations, because it can skew the results. In fact it's one of the classic forms of bias in studies that are mentioned in the book "How To Lie With Statistics".

      An example in the book is: magazine X publishes a study showing that graduates of Yale make $$$ salary in a year (the example was several times the median U.S. income at the time). How is this study (really a poll) biased?

      Well, it's an example of self-selection. People who were well-off probably had more time to fill out survey forms. And people who were less well off probably didn't want to admit how little they make... so they didn't send back the survey forms. Or they lied.

      That's one way self-selection can create bias. It doesn't always do that, but whenever there is much potential for self-selection in a study, survey, or poll, it should be taken with a grain of salt, and looked at with suspicion.

    49. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "There's nothing wrong with self-selection. The OISM petition is how we know there isn't a scientific consensus about CAGW, and all the names on it are self-selected. Whose side are you on, anyway?"

      To clarify the problem here, I will say: the difference is, that people can "self-select" when THEY want to make a point, and that does not necessarily represent bias.

      But when someone else is conducting a study, self-selection represents bias in the study, and invalidates the results.

    50. Re:Holy Crap!!! by AIphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      My hypothesis is merely that they are dumber for it.

      Which you provided no evidence of. I also see absolutely zero reason that this would be the case. Even if they leave their 'comfort zones,' that doesn't mean they'll somehow become more intelligent or something. I don't see merely gaining knowledge, forming opinions about subjective matters, or trying to figure out the point of some piece of trash painting as activities that will make people more intelligent or better critical thinkers. I think their time would be better spent trying to understand complex mathematical equations, or something else that requires deep logical thought.

      But you're adding the first condition that any mental improvement is "important". Now either you're carelessly or deliberately equivocating.

      Nope. I just prefer practical things.

      If the first case, you're overlooking that the first "important" is based on the opinion of the subject

      Irrelevant to me.

      while the second is based on the opinion of the tester

      Also irrelevant to me.

      Your third condition is "innovation"

      Right. Such as solving unsolved math problems. I don't see where these students did anything innovative or anything that showed that they gained any amount of critical thinking skills. They literally might as well have done nothing, from my point of view.

    51. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So this art study would be invalidated if it only reported the students who improved after visiting the museum, and never reported the number who didn't improve?

    52. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure where you got that idea, but it isn't what I wrote.

    53. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that's what you meant by "when someone else is conducting a study, self-selection represents bias in the study, and invalidates the results."

      I'm glad you agree the art study would still be valid even if it only reported the students who improved after visiting the museum, and never reported the number who didn't improve.

    54. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I had hoped the thread was old enough that it would go unnoticed by every one else.

      Yeah, I bet. The only time another person gets involved and it's to clip you for your pathetic ad-hominem arguments. Ha.

      Glad it's not just me that sees you for what you are.

    55. Re:Holy Crap!!! by narcc · · Score: 0

      There you are. Now the point:

      YES. That actually IS an ad-hominem argument. I made it explicitly for you to point out.

      See? It's not that complicated.

    56. Re:Holy Crap!!! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      YES. That actually IS an ad-hominem argument. I made it explicitly for you to point out.

      Yes, it's another ad-homeinem. But the reason I didn't point it out is that your posts are filled with them. I tackled that problem in your debating style many posts and quite a few days ago.

      See? It's not that complicated.

      Everything you post is quite simple. Simple, and wrong. When it has any content at all.

    57. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person who modded this person up should not only be crushed by heavy equipment, but their entire family as well for the good of the species.

    58. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "I'm glad you agree the art study would still be valid even if it only reported the students who improved after visiting the museum, and never reported the number who didn't improve."

      That isn't what I wrote, either. Frankly, I don't understand where you are getting these ideas, and I'm starting to get a bit peeved that you're trying to attribute them to me.

    59. Re:Holy Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't have to attribute ideas to you if you'd type "yes" or "no" to: Would this art study be invalidated if it only reported the students who improved after visiting the museum, and never reported the number who didn't improve?

    60. Re:Holy Crap!!! by apol · · Score: 1

      Your reasoning depends on concepts such as "unlikely". That is precisely what I was trying to claim: The acceptation of scientific claims made about human beings depend on what we see as "likely to be true" or "reasonable".

  2. Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Students, picked by lottery, to experience alcohol for the first time also became more social, took strong interest cultural history and developed a taste for falling down flights of stairs.
     
    lt;dr people enjoy free trips to new places, more if you ask them right after they get back

    1. Re:Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trip didn't just improve their mood (though that in itself seems like a perfectly reasonable goal), it also improved their performance in a number of areas. Even if all that is a result of improved mood it still seems like a win.

      / Or maybe just evidence that school is a terrible place and virtually anything else is better

    2. Re:Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it also improved their performance in a number of areas.

      It "improved their performance" based on silly criteria that have nothing to do with intelligence. Memorizing facts, patterns, or procedures and then using them on a test or essay has extremely little to do with one's intellect. Where's the innovation? There is none here, and for that, no one should be impressed.

    3. Re:Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you on about? The measures in this study had little if anything to do with memorizing facts, patterns or procedures. And no one made any claims about improving intelligence or intellect (or even how to measure such things).

      Also no one is claiming that visiting a museum is novel or innovative. I suspect many people are annoyed that visiting museums isn't old and tired; it seems much more useful than what children do in school most days. Where's the innovation in the age-segrated lectures children normally attend?

      The only claim here is that visiting a museum increased scores in critical thinking, empathy (among other things). Claims they backed up with actual statistics, collected with a documented methodology from participants that went through a randomized selection process. If you object to the way they measured critical thinking or empathy please let us know, but I find it hard to believe that you actually think improvements in those areas are not valuable to society.

    4. Re:Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you on about?

      It's more of the same garbage that we see from the public school system, and it even comes with tests that are similarly useless trash. Basically, they conclude that because some students did 'better' on their idiotic little test, that means that the museum helped them in some way.

      Most of the things they claimed to measure were measured in an utterly subjective way, and then presented in an almost objective manner; this is misleading. I say again... where is the innovation? These students have not shown any increase in critical thinking abilities, even if you foolishly accept that the museum had some impact on them.

      Where's the innovation in the age-segrated lectures children normally attend?

      There is absolutely no innovation there. I also believe that schools are abysmal a grand majority of the time.

      Claims they backed up with actual statistics

      Statistics are rather irrelevant if the methods they use to collect data are garbage.

      but I find it hard to believe that you actually think improvements in those areas are not valuable to society.

      I never said I was opposed to critical thinking, just the idea that going to museums somehow improves those skills, and that this study is garbage. As for empathy... well, I couldn't care less about that, but I suppose that's something they can measure in subjective ways and then pretend it's objective.

  3. This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm confused to why this is even considered news since this doesn't have much science behind the data. There were no extensive studies, just random data that isn't verifiable. This is also a story from NYT so it's less reliable than a PC review from soulskill xD Anyhow, I didn't know many students when I was a kid that took going out to a museum seriously. We all treated it as a day off and just ignored education for the day. Perhaps if museums for kids were better tailored for interactive education instead of going through and being told to read each sign and label students would care. Maybe times have changed and that's how it generally is today, I hope that's true.

    1. Re:This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps if museums for kids were better tailored for interactive education instead of going through and being told to read each sign and label students would care. Maybe times have changed and that's how it generally is today, I hope that's true.

      If you are in Munich, try the Deutsches Museum. No museum in Germany gets visited more. And it's darned educational. I spent a week in it as a child, and now I am Anonymous Coward, the most prolific poster on Slashdot.

    2. Re:This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      One statistically significant study is "science".

      You say "random data" like it's a bad thing.

      When you say "isn't verifiable" are you saying the study can't be duplicated? Or that you think the researchers could have made up the data? That's a fairly serious accusation.

      The report is from NYT but the original study certainly wasn't.

      And perhaps if you'd paid attention at museums, you'd have some critical thinking skills.

    3. Re:This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if museums for kids were better tailored for interactive education instead of going through and being told to read each sign and label students would care. Maybe times have changed and that's how it generally is today, I hope that's true.

      You obviously haven't been in a museum in the last couple of decades. They have had interactive displays, personal spoken tours using portable audio devices (using an MP3 player, Discman or Minidisc player), and the better museums had tour guides. That is the new technology where a person takes a group of people around and tells them about the art. It's amazing what they can do these days!

      But maybe if you are the kind of person who cannot read a small sign, then perhaps even a museum couldn't be much help for you. I wonder how you go with some of those lengthy dissertations on Twitter.

    4. Re:This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      Informative and funny! Not bad for an AC, not bad at all.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    5. Re:This "study" has no scientific basis behind it by Totaku · · Score: 1

      I was just at the Deutsches Museum last week. It was my first time so I didn't know what to expect... It is an amazing place, and I couldn't recommend it more, if you happen to be in the neighborhood.

  4. Re: Well, yes ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought someone would say this, even though the story doesn't mention that these were art students. Looks like someone could use some art in their lives.

  5. Confirmation bias???, nah... by devloop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Researchers" were contacted by.. uh.. well.. the Museum... developed a "methodology" for the "experiment" after the fact, then based their definitions and metrics on an assessment program developed in conjunction with ... another museum.

    Solid!. No way this is just another case of confirmation bias.

    1. Re:Confirmation bias???, nah... by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 1

      But that argument, all researchers develop confirmation bias that makes their studies worthless.

      Everybody wants their research to show positive results. It's much harder to publish a failure, let alone get cred for it.

    2. Re:Confirmation bias???, nah... by fatphil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What tosh - it's not as if one of the authors' "areas of research interest include the effects of culturally enriching field trips to art museums", and therefore none of them were inclined to bias the findings.

      Oh... http://www.uaedreform.org/jay-p-greene/

      I'd also like to know where the 10 million of "private" funding come for that deparment came from, in case it provides even more nails...

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    3. Re:Confirmation bias???, nah... by horigath · · Score: 1

      He's interested in researching the topic that he is in fact researching—how damning. What?

    4. Re:Confirmation bias???, nah... by fatphil · · Score: 1

      "culturally enriching" is not a neutral term - that's clear bias.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  6. Not buying it. by Belial6 · · Score: 2

    This sounds like BS. One trip to a museum and the students have measurable increase in critical thinking, social tolerance, and historical empathy? I am just not buying it. The only part that sounds even measurable is that some of the kids might, after visiting a museum for the first time, say "Yeah, I would go again."

    1. Re:Not buying it. by artor3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A random sample of tens of thousands of students, controlling for education level, income level, gender, and other factors, showed a small but statistically significant increase in critical thinking, social tolerance, and historical empathy. What part sounds like BS to you? Is it the part where the conclusion doesn't fit your preconceived notions, and therefore must be false?

    2. Re:Not buying it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      its the part where the people running museums are doing the study

    3. Re:Not buying it. by artor3 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's not true at all. The study was conducted by education policy researchers from the University of Arkansas. They posted their methods here. Did you read them?

      It seems like you, any many others, just made a snap judgement based on a misinterpretation of the summary.

    4. Re:Not buying it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part where the conclusion fits your self-serving expectations, and therefore must be true, isn't any less BS.

    5. Re:Not buying it. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's true. But even if it were, you have only succeeded in presenting a fine example of an ad hominem logical fallacy.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    6. Re:Not buying it. by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Would a burning hate of art museums, and the scheming of intricate plans to vandalise them, count as "developing interest in art museums"? That being what they measured an increase in.

      Not sure what to read into this: "The Cronbachâ€(TM)s Alpha for the tolerance scale, however, falls short of conventional standards for reliably measuring the same underlying construct". It sounds like an admission that their methods are unreliable.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    7. Re:Not buying it. by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      The part where they feed them green jelly beans.
      http://xkcd.com/882/

    8. Re:Not buying it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part where the students were all asked questions about art! Of course the students who went to the museum are going to do better. They had a full day more of studying than the other group. Had the test been a math or music test, it's results would be more meaningful.

    9. Re:Not buying it. by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

      Eh... the problem is that "art" has nothing to do with the students' improvement and the title of the article makes it sound as if that were the claim. "Art" and "art education" are not the same thing and art education is what actually benefited the students.

      One group of students was taken to an art museum and given a tour which, if you've ever been on a school trip to a museum, is basically a way of teaching critical thinking skills. The other group was not given that lesson.

      What a surprise that the former group would then do better when evaluated on critical thinking skills.

      Art, in and of itself, doesn't do much for students. The benefit comes from the teacher who teaches students the critical thinking skills involved in analyzing and interpreting art. The same skills can be taught in other ways, but interpreting art is a very convenient way to teach them since art interpretation doesn't require a lot of prerequisite skills (though you do need the cultural background, thus the emphasis on art from western cultures in the US).

    10. Re:Not buying it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, if they want to test critical thinking, the analysis of a politician's speech.

      Of course the problem then would be to ensure that those grading the test are objective ...

    11. Re:Not buying it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's false to fuckers who hate art.

    12. Re:Not buying it. by Hentes · · Score: 1

      It's not hard to misinterpret a summary that's outright misleading. It's also not hard to misinterpret a study that makes a strategic omission about its main result: they only measured critical thinking about paintings, but that fact doesn't appear in the paper's title. An honest summary of the results would be that 'art makes you know more about art', which is hardly surprising.

    13. Re:Not buying it. by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Even just reading the summary should be convincing enough: Expanding your horizons leads you to clearer thinking and a more tolerant attitude.

      Seems like a no-brainer to me. The first time I traveled halfway around the world and stepped foot on completely foreign ground, my horizons were instantly expanded. I am sure a trip to a semi-distant museum/art gallery would have a similar effect; although perhaps not to the same degree.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  7. Multi-Modal Education by holophrastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    very simply: 99% of classroom education isn't actually visual, tactile, nor aural. Math is numbers, graphs are relationships, algebra is logic, english is literary, poetry is aural, and plays are visual but how many poetry readings and plays are in classrooms these days?

    The museum is 90% visual and 80% tactile (even when you aren't permitted to touch it, you can still see the texture and infer the tactile). Welcome the part of the brain that's bored in the classroom.

    More parts of the brain being engaged, more to knowledge to associate with other knowledge, less being bored and blinder-focussed, better learning.

    1. Re:Multi-Modal Education by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Simply put, once the motivational trigger for the quest of knowledge has been trigged, it has been triggered. Providing the students with greater access to a wider range of educational interactions means that motivational trigger is far more likely to be triggered. So museums, zoos, high tech manufacturing plants, behind the scenes look at the infrastructure of major facilities, ports, major construction sites, airports, even visits to universities by primary school students basically any place the reflects the end use of the education they are participating in and the possible rewards they can expect. Most children have an motivational trigger for a desired range of knowledge, the more experiences the more likely it is to be triggered.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:Multi-Modal Education by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Damn. Wish I could mod you up. Agreed.

    3. Re:Multi-Modal Education by wisty · · Score: 1

      "Learning styles" is mostly debunked (just google "learning styles debunked").

      I'd imagine it's mostly just that art is an engaging way to show students what the "big picture" is. If you could force them to learn about history from a text book, it would be equally good ... it's just that reading about history isn't so engaging.

      Different "learning styles" aren't useful because they "exercise different parts of the brain". Different mediums are good because some are more engaging, or easier to understand. (And no, it's not "different students like visual things more" ... most students would rather look at a painting than transcribe a lecture on Napoleon's march to Russia - individual variations are often less important that the fact that *most* students find pictures kind of interesting).

    4. Re:Multi-Modal Education by Nephandus · · Score: 1

      Seeing texture's not tactile. Tactile in terms of intellect or learning refers to manual manipulation anyway.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    5. Re:Multi-Modal Education by psnyder · · Score: 4, Informative

      As an early education teacher, I am convinced that the quest for knowledge is innate, and is repressed by classrooms that ask preadolescent children to barely move or speak for 4 to 6 hours every day. I believe the "trigger" you mention could be areas of a stifled, developing brain finally getting what it desires, like a cold glass of water in hell.

      I work in a school where most lessons are planned with sensory motor function in mind, where art, language, math, etc are shown to be intertwined, and where students often preform higher on standardized tests, despite me never giving them a single, formally graded test the rest of the year.

      For more than half of the children that transfer into my school after spending 3 or 4 years in a public school (factory structured, lecture based model), I have to spend the initial months detoxifying the child, showing them that it's okay to be creative, unsuppressed, and use their interests to learn.

      The developing brains of young children are extremely sensitive to visual, tactile experiences that the various arts provide. Their psychology is very different from an adult's, yet many adults often project their own learning styles onto them. This leads to continuously keeping subjects separate (such as art & math). While key concepts should initially be presented in isolation to avoid confusion, the follow up activities should combine multiple areas. In other words, expose the children to everything possible, show them how it all interconnects, and use what the child's mind is sensitive to, practicing multiple areas in conjunction and forming deep understanding.

      I find it highly likely that the statistically significant increase in critical thinking, social tolerance, and historical empathy that this study found not only comes from the initial exposure, but also from teachers integrating the experience into follow-up lessons / activities.

    6. Re:Multi-Modal Education by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Thank you for all that you do. We need more teachers like you.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  8. Because of Godwin by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    The Nazis were really, really smart, confiscating all that art from conquered territories.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Because of Godwin by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      You can be Smart and Evil at the same time.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  9. Being smart is all about emergence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its all about the environment.Pretentious activities make you want to be smart. duh

  10. WRONG !! VIOLENCE MAKES KIDS SMART !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  11. Field trip by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do we know it was a museum that produced the effect, and not field trips in general?

    Could be the Hawthorne effect: The students who believe the school cares enough to send them on an 'intellectual' field trip will study harder. Those who believe the school views them as battery hens won't bother.

    1. Re:Field trip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even better, maybe the art in art museum was so boring that so it made students to think more critically.

    2. Re:Field trip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Museums, religious sites and similar cultural investments show appreciation to values other than the everything-to-me-now society around them. Perhaps the students realize the society is not all jungle and worth preserving and aspiring for when they look at these cultural artifacts. The additional perspective that there has been something before their birth and before the world as they know it helps too.

    3. Re:Field trip by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      I used to be bored in art museums. Then one day we took a trip to the local museum and I saw a dyptich painting named 'The Dutch Wives.' It was shredded newspaper headlines with dull splashes of color. Everyone around me was puzzled trying to solve the mystery of what the heck was going on. Then I noticed that the newspaper headlines were mostly identical, but some were slightly different. I realized that the painting was saying that the two women, represented by each canvas, had nearly identical thoughts and none of them were original. It was just things they'd heard or read, all slightly colored by their individual minds.

      Since then, I've viewed each painting as a puzzle and I try to reconcile what the artist was thinking when he put the work together. This is why nothing pisses me off more than "Untitled" works that are completely abstract. The artist was so absorbed in creating the meaning for himself that he or she forgot to clue in the eventual audience as well.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    4. Re:Field trip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't try too hard. Sometimes a portrait is just a portrait and sometimes the artist is just experimenting with shapes, colors, and styles. Many of the great examples from the Impressionism era are good examples of this.

    5. Re:Field trip by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      If there's a discernible subject to the painting, then it already has meaning and doesn't need further explanation. It's the modern art students who are pretending to be Jackson Pollack and who throw paint on a canvas without any explanation to the audience looking at it. Not even "I thought it would look cool" or "I was angry at my mom that day." Making art that just looks cool is fine, too. Making art based on your emotions is awesome. At least be kind and tell me what's what you were doing instead of saying it's "Untitled #28" in which the 28 is itself an arbitrary number. (Not even "I did a painting a day for 30 days and this was made on the 28th day" - that gives the number meaning, which gives the work of art meaning.)

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    6. Re:Field trip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I could put what was in my head into words, I would write about it instead of trying to represent it visually, or at least that's the case insofar as my own abstracts are concerned. The fun thing about abstraction is that it's not representative in the traditional sense. Every viewer interprets it differently and sees something different in it, my anger or confusion may well be your something else. I may not even realize what it is I'm trying to depict, maybe I'm doing a Borduas and trying my hand at "automatic painting" where there are no aesthetic considerations (so no, I don't think it "looks cool", as nothing is deliberate) and I don't know what it means, as automatisme is an attempt to channel the subconscious. Or perhaps I'm a formalist, experimenting with matters of form (which is also separate from aesthetics, and is neither necessarily representational nor didactic).

      I get wanting things to be neatly packaged in easy to digest boxes where you don't need to do too much of your own thinking and interpreting, really I do. But sometimes things just aren't as simple or straightforward as you'd prefer, it simply is what it is.

    7. Re:Field trip by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      I don't mind the thinking and interpreting. It's why I enjoy art. But how am I supposed to interpret four blobs of paint on a canvas named "Untitled" in an exhibit among ten other very similar blobs of paint on canvas also called "Untitled"?

      I get it - not all art is meant for other people. For some it's therapy. For others it's about the process. But if it's not something you ever want to genuinely share with others by giving them at least the tiniest clue about the meaning, then don't put it in an exhibit. (And this doesn't even apply to all "blob of paint on canvas" types - if there are nifty things going on with the texture or thematic elements or some pattern in the chaos, I'll appreciate it at face value.)

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  12. Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by steelfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who could imagine that increased exposure to different thought patterns (art is/was materialized thought) would increase their ability to think?

    Who could imagine that Europeans, with vastly greater exposure to varying cultures than Americans, would be comparatively more tolerant and creative? Who would have guessed that Americans, with more exposure to other cultures than Asians (East and South, who are all fairly secluded for the most part), would exhibit the same trend? Who could imagine that being able to experience more ideas means being able to incorporate those ideas into everyday problems?

    Studying art through a textbook is meaningless though. Who'd'a thunk?

    --
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    1. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that there is one culture in Asia but multiple cultures in Europe? You may need to go to more arts museums.

    2. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by Nephandus · · Score: 1

      More creative? You even pretending to count only post-US-existing, or are you referring to Native Americans? Most technological leaps since the ancient world weren't European. Most pretenses while accomplishing little to nothing were. French isn't remotely the language of science anymore for a reason. Europeans touting tolerance though's a laugh. They kissass certain special cultures, often while ignoring any unpleasant consequences of said cultures. Otherwise, they're smug and hypocritical as fuck all. And if you meant historically tolerant, that better be joke 'cause DAMN...

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    3. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      As a man who has been around the periphery, I can assure you that artistic circles are entirely the opposite of open-minded and tolerant. In fact, if you don't agree with their politics you are quite quickly ostracized. Sad but true.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by fazig · · Score: 2

      (beware of sarcasm)
      Yes, I completely forgot. The internal combustion engine and therefore the automobile was invented in the USA, so was the liquid fuel rocket, that opened up space exploration and created the necessity to develop microelectronics. The metric system, also invented by the USA, while not practiced in the USA, also became the standard scale in science for a reason. The USA then again didn't invent the nuclear bomb, never used it against humans in any war, because that would be horrible.

      Can we stop this pointless penis-weaving now? Comparing a multitude of cultures this way just doesn't work. There's a lot of history and art in all parts of the world, the difference here might be that it is preserved in a different way.
      For the technological part, Europe played a vital role in technological advancement of the world, then Nazi Germany and the 2nd World War came, threw Europe a few decades into the past. It is a fact that the Old World, not only Europe, contributed a lot to our endeared western values. This doesn't man that it couldn't have happened on the Americas as well, it just happened this way.

      But well, that's European history, and as a European who am I to criticize the superior historical knowledge of an apparently random american individual? Now I'm going back to kissass Islamic terrorists.

    5. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by clovis · · Score: 1

      Who could imagine that Europeans, with vastly greater exposure to varying cultures than Americans, would be comparatively more tolerant and creative?

      Umm, if you think Europe's countries such as England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Greece an so on are "varying cultures", then you don't get out much. They are all the same type of government with a middle-class culture.
      And if you think the average European is more accepting of the average Vietnamese, Somali, Brazilian than the average American, then you don't get out much.
      I'm not saying things are cool in the USA, because they are not, but to accuse the USA of being a mono-culture is just plain weird.

      The next time you go to a popular movie filmed in the United States, sit through the credits and look at the names of all the people involved. See how many names there are like Bob Watanabe, Susan Chandrashsekar, Jean-Luc Rodriguez there are. Now check out a film filmed in France or Germany and see what kind of mix of people worked on it. Furthermore, look at the names of the executives of the top corporations in each place.

      Yes, I know that much of the film industry is farmed out to other countries, and it's easy to tell what because those units have the same kind of names in them, while the American units have such a strange mix of names. But my point is the USA is full from one end to the other of people marrying across cultures, and that is real and actual acceptance. Allowing foreigners to sweep your floors or run the cash register (the European model) is not really acceptance.

    6. Re:Exposure == Worldliness, who'd'a thunk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smart people don't like dumbfucks it's true.

  13. correlation without causation, but why? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Yes, I read the article.

    If you list the 'positive' outcomes, you'll see that one aligns almost perfectly with left wing dogma terminology ('diversity', 'social tolerance', 'historical empathy'), another is circular reasoning (more likely to return to a museum, so what?), and 'critical thinking skills' (which, without context, means nothing). What did this program do? Count the number of times the student used 'diversity', 'social tolerance', 'historical empathy' and possibly others? How does that prove overall intellectual improvement? If anything it just shows how much the propaganda has been reenforced.

    The article then goes on to claim a causal relationship, when, at best, it does no more than show the same set of correlations it says were made in the past. So which is it? Does going to art museums give people these attributes, or do people with these attributes end up going more often? Or are these people going just for the social kudos/'faux' sophistication because of the novel exclusivity? Really, all they proved was that exposing people to new experiences causes some of them to want to do it again. How is that interesting?

    Since the value of art really depends on what the viewer makes of it, I think they have it backwards: potentially, more intelligent people get more out of it. It doesn't make people more intelligent by osmosis, and honestly, there are a lot of intelligent people out there who are not content with the simple mental masturbation that comes with viewing/talking about art.

    Oh, it's the NYT, what a shock. They pull many of the same logical contortions as fox. The only difference is they're better at hiding it behind screeds of big words and compound complex sentences.

    1. Re:correlation without causation, but why? by horigath · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...and 'critical thinking skills' (which, without context, means nothing).

      I'm not sure what kind of detail you read the article in then, because it describes the students being given an essay-question test. And if you read the links given you'll find out how the test was blindly scored looking for certain specific techniques as evidence of critical thinking: “observing, interpreting, evaluating, associating, problem finding, comparing, and flexible thinking”. They even built in a test for their system, having separate researchers score overlapping samples so that they could make sure they were producing consistent results.

      And here's a little bonus:

      A large amount of the gain in critical-thinking skills stems from an increase in the number of observations that students made in their essays. Students who went on a tour became more observant, noticing and describing more details in an image. Being observant and paying attention to detail is an important and highly useful skill that students learn when they study and discuss works of art. Additional research is required to determine if the gains in critical thinking when analyzing a work of art would transfer into improved critical thinking about other, non-art-related subjects.

      I'm not sure why the summary doesn't include a direct link to the study, as is present in the NYT article, but there you go. There's more detail in there about what they mean by empathy and tolerance (specifically including a measurable decrease in the student's support for government censorship).

    2. Re:correlation without causation, but why? by Bongo · · Score: 1

      I gather the real basis for "diversity" is the cognitive skill of finding fault with one's own thinking, beliefs, attitudes, etc. But too often it is merely used as a narrative to find fault with the opponent. Basically, honest diversity is about being able to deconstruct one's own view, "maybe we are treating gays unfairly". So it is an actual skill HOWEVER, unless one has that "bending over backwards to prove one's self wrong" skill, the teaching of diversity can merely encourage tribalism. Basically, you get good at deconstructing the other's views, "gee you must have some hidden neocolonialist power drive", but don't get round to deconstructing your OWN views, "gee I wonder if I am using the neocolonialist phallocentric racist narrative to bypass any need to look at whether my own views might also contain some errors which need examining." Which is where perhaps the "left" then fails to deliver, because in trying to promote diversity, it doesn't examine the key ingredients which are necessary for true diversity, namely developing the cognitive skills. So the kids who are already smart enough to get diversity, because they criticise their own views just as honestly as they criticise other's views, can thrive in these exercises. But the kids who don't already have the skill, will find it a bridge too bar, the curriculum is literally over their heads, and instead tend to interpret the lesson as a free pass to encourage tribalism. Of course, a left narrative is that everyone is equally smart, it is just life or society that is unfair, so the notion of a teaching about diversity being "over their heads" sounds nasty, but the consequence, if true, is that the left ends up ignoring the needs of those people whom it most desires to help. It is just a matter of adding some intermediary steps toward diversity. One book on cognitive development describes engaging kids in a boat building project, where they get to build their own boat, so that's the "selfish" motivation, but the work is arranged so that for some tasks, they need to help each other in a cooperative way, so it gradually introduces social bonding and social cooperative skills. But it doesn't make those the obvious goal. Anyway, IANA... etc.

    3. Re:correlation without causation, but why? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      because it describes the students being given an essay-question test.

      So, in other words, this whole thing was rather meaningless. What we need are more useless tests.

      you'll find out how the test was blindly scored looking for certain specific techniques as evidence of critical thinking: “observing, interpreting, evaluating, associating, problem finding, comparing, and flexible thinking”.

      That sounds utterly subjective.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:correlation without causation, but why? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if it's subjective if the people doing the subjective grading don't know who did and didn't go to the museum as part of the study. Well, also if the essays were graded in random order, were otherwise identical, etc, etc, etc, There is nothing wrong with using a subjective measure as long as the person doing the measuring is blind to the parameters the study is looking at.

    5. Re:correlation without causation, but why? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if it's subjective

      I'm not talking about bias here. I'm saying that I think their methods for determining intelligence and critical thinking are the same type of garbage we see from the school system.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  14. The answer is obvious by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Funny

    Belial6 never visited a museum when attending school and his/her mind has not fully developed as a result.

    Basically the study seems to claim that teaching kids makes them smarter. Who knew! Is going to a museum that unusual in the US?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:The answer is obvious by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      No, it claims that one trip to a museum increases their critical thinking skills. There study is making an extraordinary claim. Their methodology does not support that claim. Maybe if you didn't rely on that single visit to a museum to supply you with your critical thinking skills, you could look at their methodology and see why it is BS.

    2. Re:The answer is obvious by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I don't even think the things they used to 'measure' this supposed increase in critical thinking skills were valid in the least.

      Somewhat unrelated, but it seems like certain people want this to be true.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:The answer is obvious by wcrowe · · Score: 2

      Well, yes, if you live in a rural area, going to a museum in the U.S. is pretty unusual. I grew up in the Ozarks, not far from Bentonville, Arkansas (where the museum in question resides). The nearest museum would have been in Tulsa, Oklahoma -- over 100 miles (160 kilometers) away. Such a trip would have been an all-day, expensive affair, to a small museum which is nothing like Crystal Bridges. It would be a rare thing.

      The first art museum I visited was when I was seventeen, and it was the Pergamon Museum in (then) East Berlin. We were there as part of a student exchange program. The impact it made on me was huge, and I still think it's interesting that I had to travel to a communist country to see my first art museum.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    4. Re:The answer is obvious by profplump · · Score: 1

      It's quite unusual for anyone in rural or semi-rural areas; I visited one museum in my entire primary and secondary education and that required extra attendance on Saturday and a $50 fee.

      Even in urban areas we do a lot to lock children away from the world rather than engage them in it. The amount of staff you need to keep them locked up is a lot smaller than the amount of staff you need if they were allowed to interact with the world, so guess which one we pick?

    5. Re:The answer is obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it claims that one trip to a museum increases their critical thinking skills

      It *might* work in teenagers but probably not adults. I have a friend that studied art in high school and was thus required to go to the museum (many miles away) as part of their studies. It turned out to be the only time this friend ever went to an art museum with her father. Well, this father came from a rural background and never went to museums growing up. And he saw a painting of a very famous artist and was surprised to see it in such a prestigious location because it turned out his father used to make the frames that that artist stretched his canvasses on. He was in fact, surprised that this artist was famous at all. And he wasn't just a famous artist, he was an incredibly influential one. Like, as in, required learning about the history of modern art. Did that father go to an art museum after that? As far as I know - no. But my friend still likes to produce art and is a much more critical thinker than her father. So....take from that what you like, but there is some sort of relationship here....not quite what the researchers might be claiming but....

  15. Bad Science by Dean+Edmonds · · Score: 1

    The "control" group didn't go on any kind of field trip. They just continued to attend class like normal. So there's no reason to believe that the art had any influence. It could just be that giving kids a day off from the usual school grind, getting them away from their usual neighbourhoods, and showing some kind of interest in them beyond the norm had a positive impact.

    I do happen to believe that exposure to art can aid in personal development, but this study does little to prove that.

    --

    -deane

  16. circular agrument by johnwerneken · · Score: 1

    To me the BENEFIT of something is my enjoyment of it. I see no great benefit in empathy tolerance and other 'artist" type attitudes in others. Helping others LEARN, WORK, PRODUCE now that might be useful to me. Making them nice people is as far as I am concerned up to them, I don't give a damn if others are tolerant or Nazis at heart.

    1. Re:circular agrument by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Making them nice people is as far as I am concerned up to them, I don't give a damn if others are tolerant or Nazis at heart.

      Really? You don't care if all your neighbours and colleagues are intolerant nazis? What an insular life you must lead.

  17. Fails the "So what?" test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently these students gained "...stronger critical thinking skills, ...higher levels of social tolerance, ...greater historical empathy and ...a taste for art museums and cultural institutions".

    So. Basically, students with little or no arts background went on an arts trip and gained a degree of improvement in arts skills. And that was most strong in those with least previous exposure. A little broadening of a child's intellectual and cultural horizons is clearly, therefore, a good thing (gosh, who'da thunk it?). But it's a huge, unjustified leap from that to the conclusion that: 'Expanding access to art... ...should be a CENTRAL part of any school's curriculum.' (my emphasis). Apart from anything, the study itself shows that the effect is limited, with clear evidence of diminishing returns.

    As to the broader proposition that "(T)he arts... ...increase test scores, generate social responsibility and turn around failing schools" (with the unstated but desperately wished subtext from the arts world that the arts somehow do this in a way that the sciences don't, and should therefore be given a much more prominent role in education) - this goes nowhere near having anything of value to say on that. Which, I have no doubt, won't stop the arts world trotting it out as (wholly anecdotal) "evidence" of the worth and importance of the arts for years to come.

  18. Learning something, not staring at something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty sure even museum goers has to be told what they are looking at in order to even begin to appreciate something.
    Better result with literature and philosophy than simply looking at museum pieces I am sure.

  19. Re:Smart and Unemployed by MR-808 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    People who aren't sociopaths, that's who!

    I recommend that everyone read How To Be Rich by J. Paul Getty. He was the richest person in the world in his day, and yet he had some enlightened things to say. For instance, he advocated cooperating with labor unions (when have you ever heard a billionaire do that?). From this book, I received the best management advice ever - praise in public, punish in private. He also thought that spectator sports were a waste of time. But what Getty was most passionate about was art. He amassed an amazing collection, and then made it available to the public for free. If you're ever in Los Angeles, if at all possible, set aside a day or two to visit The Getty - it will make you smarter. And I encourage you to visit museums whenever and wherever you travel - you'll see some amazing things.

  20. Not buying it either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did all the students invited on the field trip eventually come? Of course not.

    Alternate possible explanation:
    1) Let's assume that 20% of the students invited did not come, and
    2) Let's assume that the most desocialized students are the most likely not to come, because they think that it's not interesting / because they're not with their friends / because they just jump the field trip / because they are afraid it could cost money / whatever, and
    3) Let's assume that eing desocialized is highly correlated with having bad grades & bad empathy

    At "whole foods" there are only good looking apples, but the only reason is that they were selected like that to begin with.

  21. Try Band by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    A strong concert and marching band program reaching down into the elementary grades will uplift students quite measurably. This has been known for many decades yet politicians have ruined many school band programs. My high school band program produced numerous band directors and life long musicians of professional caliber and our band members did well in college as well. Frankly every parent needs to make certain that their kid plays in the school band and fight like crazy to get proper funding for the band.

  22. And so it goes.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First refering to anything in the NY Times to be factual or logical is an instant FAIL.

    Second - an 'experience' 'tour' is what led to this great measurable turn around of all these students ??? (that is in some real statistically provable way beside the usual method of using 'wishful thinking' and 'predetermined study outcomes' usually used by this newspaper. Fortune reading via configuration of cat feces in a litter box is likely to be far more accurate a reporting.

    Actually it could eaily be proven that systematiclly arming properly trained instructors with cattle prods could virtually overnight DOUBLE the measurable intelligence of most public school students.

    BTW was not there already in place (as in endemic) all those special programs and projects and teaching methods in use recommended by the usual crowd that operate big city public schools to improve 'learning' resulting in the existing piss poor performance???

  23. Yeah, but..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it make them smarter than playing violent video games?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/27/psychologists_study_shows_violent_video_games_can_make_kids_smarter/

  24. Not a new idea by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

    In Plato's Republic, the essential education of the ruling class required musical and artistic study. Plato thought that arts were a good way to cultivate creativity, and music was good for making people balance out emotional and logical thinking. It turns out he was absolutely right, at least about music: Centuries later, they've determined that musicians have a larger corpus collosum connecting the right and left brains, which enables them to better connect different kinds of thinking into a coherent whole.

    Of course, teaching both art and music costs money for cash-scrapped school systems, and many states do not require that either be offered. So guess what is first to fall by the wayside when budgets are tight?

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Not a new idea by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if referencing Plato's Republic is really helping your cause here. Look at Greece today. Even if we just look at ancient Athens, the city-state didn't fall because its citizens abandoned art or cut back on concert attendance.

  25. correlation is not causation! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the "scientists" who created this study probably took too many art classes because they are idiots. a more likely explanation of the correlation is that the kids got to ride the bus and that helped their scores.

    1. Re:correlation is not causation! by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      According to the International Tree Nut Council Nutrition Research & Education Foundation, peanuts make us smarter, not art. Which is it? How do I know who is right?

      As for those of us who are smart anyway, in spite of avoiding both art and nuts (typically the later creates the first), shouldn't we be recognized for our great triumph in overcoming adversity? Or maybe for just overcoming absurdity?

  26. No it doesn't by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Art is mostly a joke, in what other "field" can a single white vertical line sell for 44 Million? What about the two circles that sold for 10 Million? What about the paintings that are paint just thrown onto canvas? I can keep going but I don't think I need to. Art will not help with test scores, it won't help with knowledge and it won't help you in your life unless your the one selling these pieces of junk. With the exception of realism, art is just random crap on a medium. Once a line or a circle gets defined as art then the entire definition of art has to fall apart. I can't just put a hub on my desk, not plug it in and call my self a networking expert. I can't just open a terminal and let it sit there and call my self a linux expert. Basically art is the only field where nothing is still defined at greatness.

    1. Re:No it doesn't by u38cg · · Score: 1

      OK, oh great art critic. Fuck off and sell your "random crap on a medium" to the highest bidder. Best of luck.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    2. Re:No it doesn't by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to sell art, I hate art, if it's not realism it's worthless. Random paint on a surface that doesn't look like anything or doesn't have a meaning or is just a simple shape does not constitute value in my books. I can paint my own line and not spend 44 million doing it.

    3. Re:No it doesn't by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      The trick to selling art is in salesmanship. It's all in how you spin it. And people who really want to impress their friends are more likely to buy "art" that is so "complex" that they don't even "get it" themselves. So if the "art" is so advanced that the buyer can't truly comprehend it, then surely their friends are going to be blown away.

      The "intellectuals" bought into the sales pitch over 100 years ago. Now they are stuck because that can't risk losing credibility by admitting that they were fooled. But the "intellectuals" are today the gatekeepers of the high-end, high-society, and ivy-league academic art world. It is a position of power they cannot afford to let go of, but for those who want to be "in", those poor fools have to put on the same show and nod their heads and pretend that they agree and understand why a contemporary sculpture of a woman picking her nose is "great art", on the same level as Venus de Milo.

    4. Re:No it doesn't by u38cg · · Score: 1

      There are two possibilities. (a) You are ignorant. (b) All members of the art world everywhere are engaged in a giant conspiracy. Paging Occam to the front desk, please. Occam to the front desk. Seriously, there are courses and books about this shit. Educate yourself.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    5. Re:No it doesn't by hey! · · Score: 1

      I've hear this criticism leveled at Picasso, but Picasso *could* draw; he'd have been a great realist if he wanted to be. As you begin to study the things that set a good painting apart from a mediocre one, you start to see that not all of them have to do with accurate draftsmanship or the subjects chosen. You begin to pay more attention to the interplay composition, balance, geometry, and shading. These are things that exist *apart* from the things represented; they can exist *without* anything represented at all.

      Once you've reached the level of appreciation that understands what sets apart a great painting, it's natural to then begin to focus on those things. That leads to stripping away things which matter not at all (subject matter) or somewhat less (fine detail, accurate perspective), and gradually you find yourself on the road to abstract art. It is this process of thinking about art that I suspect confers cognitive benefits on art students.

      Picasso's landscapes are a good place to start to see this process at work. My favorites are the Factory at Horta de Ebro and the Reservoir at Horta, which you can see are still quite representational without being realistic.

      Now what the *market* will pay for a piece of art is totally irrelevant to what art is. But a single white line *can* be art. The problem is that you've come in at the end of a long conversation about "what is art?" You've missed everything but the exclamation point at the end.

      Think of it this way. I can buy a quality blue crew neck tee shirt for about eight bucks; something you could wear with jeans and look OK. But decorate that tee so it looks like an old London police box, and suddenly the market value goes to $20. Why? We all know what the tardis looks like on the outside. Because it makes you part of a cultural conversation.

      The objection to a white stripe being art seems to be, "I could do that, where's my 44 mil?" Without defending the prices paid at auction for any particular piece of art, some of which clearly is driven by greed and irrationality, what collectors are paying for is the exclamation point at the end of the conversation. Sure you could paint a white stripe, but you weren't part of the conversation.

      Suppose our Tardis tee shirt is one of a kind, hand-printed and signed by Tom Baker. It goes at auction for $100. Does that seem irrationally high to you, given that you can buy an equally good tee shirt for $8? If I put *my* signature on a Tardis tee shirt, that would actually *lower* its market value, but the signature of one of the actors who played The Doctor *raises* the market value. Does that seem irrational? If you'd never heard of the doctor, science fiction, fandom or TV for that matter, it *would* seem crazy to pay $100 for a tee shirt with a sharpie stain on it.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:No it doesn't by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      I have educated myself, in fact I have a large wealth of knowledge about many art styles and art cultures, I didn't just invent my opinion based off ignorance, I studied art in school as a series of elective studies before coming to the conclusion I have. I've personally justified my reasoning.

    7. Re:No it doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slit your wrists nazi or go back to your book and jew burning.

  27. and PE makes kids thinner. by csumpi · · Score: 1

    Yet our government keeps cutting both physical education and art, to save money. At the same time the school superintendant in my city makes $500k / year, plus benefits.

    1. Re:and PE makes kids thinner. by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      But cutting budgets is hard. Really, really hard. They deserve $500k. It's like they say "it costs money to save money". Right?

  28. "Positive" outcomes? by Fringe · · Score: 2

    We don't have a liberal arts shortage. We have a STEM shortage. We don't lack educators. We lack programmers. Is it possible that by increasing empathy in these students, we're reducing the traits that nudge kids towards computers, math and science? Since we can't dedicate resources to compensating for that reduction, is it really profitable to do it at all?

    Nice thing about my computers is, they don't have need for me to be empathetic.

    1. Re:"Positive" outcomes? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      >We don't have a liberal arts shortage. We have a STEM shortage.

      Looking at the state of architecture across all the non-major towns and cities in the US, there are computers everywhere, but the buildings are hideous and the art is non existent. I suggest we have an arts shortage and plenty of STEM.

      Scan round this random sample I plucked from google street view. https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.499826,-122.411803&spn=0.001209,0.001953&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.499826,-122.411803&panoid=JdP0_uUuQKlpc5GyXvkw9w&cbp=12,125.12,,0,0

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:"Positive" outcomes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we don't have a STEM shortage - plenty of people who know their hard sciences. There's just a shortage of STEM workers willing to work for minimum wage.

  29. Where's the Control Group? by Sentrion · · Score: 1

    OK, so some went to the art museum and others didn't. So that makes art the answer to our problems? What about sending a bus load of kids to a museum of science and nature? When advocating for art, the studies tend to compare students engaged in art activities against kids spending the same amount of time staring at a blank wall. Surprise! Art makes you smarter!

  30. These traits are undesirable in the U.S., alas by echtertyp · · Score: 1

    I hate to say it, but from my experience in America this is like a "laundry list" of things that American conservatives condemn: - empathy - social tolerance - critical thinking If I recall correctly the conservatives in the state of Texas proposed an educational code that literally sought to prevent critical thinking. I loved my time in Mountain View and my friends there but for the U.S. as a whole, this sort of thing is going to be a tough sell.

  31. Not just art by PPH · · Score: 1

    I think it may have to do with getting a well rounded education. Students who are receptive to (not just suffer through curriculum requirements) a wide range of subject matter are probably better at critical thinking, empathy, social interaction, etc. And later in life, they are more adaptable to changes in their careers. I've seen people graduate from college with something odd like a degree in geography go to work as a software developer and actually surpass CS grads. Particularly the kind of STEM graduate that thinks all they need is the curriculum specific to their field. (I pick on STEM because this attitude seems to be rampant in these fields.)

    I find it interesting that an art museum is conducting an experiment to see if art makes a person smart. I wonder if a statistics museum would conclude that courses in math and statistics make for better research study designs.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  32. Re:Art Smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cant normally fart without gas

  33. Roll out the armchair statisticians and scientists by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 1

    Hey, look! A study that doesn't conform to the common narrative that STEM is the be-all-end-all! Let's rip it to shreds with our flawed understanding of how testing works, our limited understanding of sociology, our complete lack of understanding about education, and completely ignore the fact that this study was performed by people who have dedicated their lives to doing this sort of thing and then peer reviewed and published by people who have also spent their lives doing that sort of thing.

    But sure, our layman-level understanding and knowledge of phrases like correlation vs causation, reproducibility, and falsifiable and ability to trivialize findings by "selectively" quoting out of "context" completely is enough to totally invalidate any study, particularly when we only attack the news article about the study itself!

    --
    The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
  34. Really? by coyote_oww · · Score: 1

    Challenge: take a belief you have and prove it. You get to design the experiment, collect the data and publish your results.

    Unless you try to fail, you won't, you'll "prove" exactly what you set out to prove. As noted above, can independent researchers reproduce the result. That is, people that are doubtful that art will magically fix kids.

    1. Re:Really? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Nope, sorry. That's not how it works. You can formulate a hypothesis and still objectively test it, in spite of personal attachment. "People like proving things more than disproving" doesn't contravene the basic principles of science and you're going to have to try harder.

    2. Re:Really? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That is, people that are doubtful that art will magically fix kids.

      Hmm, your cultural bias has caused you to reject the possibility that the scientific method works.

      I suggest you stop watching Fox News.

  35. Re:Art Smart by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    SMRT

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  36. Re:Smart and Unemployed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny how those who get their money pulling oil made millions of years ago out of the ground, have a different philosophy from those who earn it.

  37. Art brings it all together... by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    We teach everything as separate disciplines; is it any wonder kids fail to learn to see interrelationships and often loose interest when "education" is almost exclusively about abstract memorization, as opposed to a comprehensive *understanding* ?

    If you want kids to excel in mathematics and chemistry, stop teaching it separate from history and music. If you want kids to have a future, stop gauging them exclusively by test scores based on flawed assumptions about education.

    The arts are part of the history of the species, inseparable from how we developed, our technology, politics, and science. Teach these subjects they way they unfolded : together, inter-related, in a *sensible* way.

  38. typical pathetic museum culture crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    art EDUCATION, instead of art history

    make them capable of doing art themselves, and the benefits will be immeasurably greater

    1. Re:typical pathetic museum culture crap by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      But the purpose of education is to produce more effective workers and consumers. We all know that today's students won't all be growing up to become artists for a living, but we (actually our professors who are trying to strike it big by producing their own creative works) need workers who also have a desire to pay for non-essentials, like art, concerts, novels, museums, etc. School sponsored athletic performances, mainly football and basketball, have been extremely popular for decades, drawing in huge crowds who pay for the privilege to watch a game, not to mention the extra revenue generated by the sale of cheese nachos and the licensing of team-labeled merchandise. The natural outcome of this phenomenon is that high schools are known to pay $100k salaries to football coaches who serve no other role, and top tier college coaches can rake in millions. You don't think that directors of music programs or the organizers of theatrical performances want to get their own piece of the action? Just imagine if school sponsored rock bands were a launch pad for joining professional bands just the way it works with college sports. Of course the tenured professors tend to be stuck in a world where they try to influence the personal tastes and interests of their captive audience (aka "students") rather than aiming to produce works that have the same natural appeal to people like the athletic programs have (again, namely football and basketball - college sports like swimming or wrestling don't draw the same fanatic crowds). The point I'm making is that while for decades schools have been trying to achieve the same financial success that sports have generated, they have failed miserably. But extra-curricular art programs in schools are still focused on performances and exhibitions, with the intent to draw in revenue and exploit the free labor of students rather than impart any of the natural sense of satisfaction that may come from expressing oneself through art. I say this though as a techie who is for the most part apathetic about artistic expression or following spectator sports, just pointing out once again that wherever there is an advocate for any agenda there is an underlying profit motive.

  39. What BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My sister is a art major, and she is not very bright. She believes any conspiracy theory she hears about because if they say it on TV and her friends agree, then it must be true. She has next to no critical thinking, she leaves the thinking up to others like a typical democrat.

      People who believe articles like this lack critical thinking.

    1. Re:What BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry about your sister.
      Your reply is titled "What BS". Are you referring to the original article, or is this just a rant about your sister?
      However, if you are trying to extrapolate from the anecdote about your sister's critical thinking inability to "What BS" (if it's about the study) and on to "like a typical democrat" shows an appalling lack of critical analysis ability. I have to wonder if you can understand how what you posted tends to negate your own argument.

  40. Just art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. Education makes students smart. Art just makes them smarter at things related to the art they're studying. Kind of like how math/science makes them more logically intelligent. The bottom line, though, is that education is what makes people smart, as well as their innate desire and capacity to learn.

  41. Re:Smart and Unemployed by mcgrew · · Score: 2

    How to be rich is in the public domain, the link is to free ebook versions. If you're going to buy a book, buy mine -- I'm still alive and can use the money a lot more than the dead Mr. Ghetty! If you're poor or "thrifty" you can read mine for free, too.

    Guys, before you post links to Amazon or B&N see if you can link the text itself. If the author's been dead for a hundred years, his work will be on the net. Surprisingly, some newer work is, as well. I've even found Asimov short stories online.

    For instance, he advocated cooperating with labor unions (when have you ever heard a billionaire do that?).

    Not since the 1980s when the head of a major, then non-union airline said "any company that gets a union deserves it," meaning that if you treat and pay your workers fairly, they won't form a union. Unions are for asshole bosses. If your workforce unionizes, you're probably a heartless sociopath.

  42. what are you measuring? by coyote_oww · · Score: 1

    That's the real problem. Per the abstract the measure was not really cognitive ability per say. The kids "demonstrated significantly stronger critical thinking skills when analyzing a new painting". So, a guided tour of an art museum gives/refreshes your knowledge of art terminology and the sense that art docents have of how art should be looked at. They didn't demonstrate math, reading, writing or IQ improvement in this experiment.

  43. Re:Roll out the armchair statisticians and scienti by jratcliffe · · Score: 1

    I wish I hadn't just used my last mod point. Well said.

  44. Except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when it's deviantART. It'll be "smart-ass" instead.

  45. Correlation Does not show causation by xtronics · · Score: 1

    Of course the arrow of causation could also be reversed - or both are caused by some third factor (wealth?). Or research bias/fraud? Or just chance.

    But that will not stop most from quoting this as cause and effect.

  46. Re:Holy Crap(shoot)!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Genetics is pretty close to a total crapshoot, really. You can shape the odds a little either way with good parenting and good ancestors, but not reliably (or we'd all be happily living in monarchies).

    My biological son, on target to be (quite literally) a third generation rocket scientist, is unsurprisingly brilliant.

    My adopted daughter, born a so-called "crack baby" and the biological child of ghetto dwelling high school dropouts... is equally brilliant.

  47. Re:Roll out the armchair statisticians and scienti by AIphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

    And your point is what, exactly? I suppose you're trying to spew forth ad hominems at people you don't even know to... somehow debunk their arguments? Or what?

    our complete lack of understanding about education

    I think that was their main problem.

  48. Re:Smart and Unemployed by kermidge · · Score: 1

    Good stuff, mcgrew. A little searching goes a long way. Here's one for you,
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/
    guy has Tom Swift books on a page; putting 'em up is one of his hobbies. Interesting site. Spent some hours there recently. His stuff on physics is interesting. Among other things.

    Last para is good. Treat people right, they'll return the favor. Seems to be changing these days, tho, but it could just be I need new glasses.