Sailfish Can Officially Be Installed To Android Devices

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Sailfish Can Officially Be Installed To Android Devices

Posted by timothy on Saturday November 30, 2013 @10:05AM from the jolla-good-old-chap dept.

jones_supa writes "Talouselämä Magazine met Jolla CEO Tomi Pienimäki and asked a puzzling question. If Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices, is Jolla going to let individual users to install the Sailfish operating system on the Android devices that they already have? Pienimäki answers: 'That is the plan. We are on device business and OS business. It is fairly easy to install the OS on Android devices'. He says that especially in China, changing firmwares is a mainstream thing. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android. Therefore, Jolla's plan is to get some Sailfish installations sneaked in, too."

118 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Interesting. by MrEricSir · 2013-11-30 10:13 · Score: 4, Interesting

So this means both Sailfish and Ubuntu Phone can be installed on Android devices. This is an interesting development -- perhaps we're moving toward a PC-like standard for phone and tablet hardware?

--
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
1. Re:Interesting. by mwvdlee · 2013-11-30 10:30 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  perhaps we're moving toward a PC-like standard for phone and tablet hardware?
  Well; most Android devices have a bootloader you'll have to hack and void warranty if you do so.... yes!
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
2. Re:Interesting. by hydrofix · 2013-11-30 10:34 · Score: 2
  
  So the next logical step is that someone starts selling Android hardware where you can replace the OS component without voiding the warranty.
3. Re:Interesting. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 10:40 · Score: 0
  
  Most warranties are pretty much worthless anyway so you wouldn't be losing much. It seems the majority of warranty repairs or replacements take months and cost ridiculous amounts for shipping. If you're lucky, after waiting three months you will get back a phone that doesn't have all the same problems as the original.
4. Re:Interesting. by substance2003 · 2013-11-30 10:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I believe such a phone already exists.
  
  http://oppostyle.com/find-5/8-find-5-white.html#/capacity-16gb
5. Re:Interesting. by AvitarX · 2013-11-30 11:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  What company?
  T-Mobile has consistently given me a new phone on the spot if I have a box and one under warranty that's broken.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
6. Re:Interesting. by AvitarX · 2013-11-30 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, wish I knew about that, probably would of gone with it rather than a Nexus 5.
  Priced very competitively, and I'm really missing burst mode from my One S.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
7. Re:Interesting. by hydrofix · 2013-11-30 11:47 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Interesting. It's slightly better hardware than Jolla for €100 less. But at least for now without Sailfish OS, of course.
8. Re:Interesting. by Burz · 2013-11-30 13:19 · Score: 1
  
  See http://www.fairphone.com/
9. Re:Interesting. by substance2003 · 2013-11-30 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure a higher resolution, twice the memory and a camera with more than twice the megapixels qualifies as only *slightly* better.
  The Jolla does have LTE over the Oppo but that seems to be of small consolation.
10. Re:Interesting. by EETech1 · 2013-11-30 13:46 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  If you are using Android, try using "fast burst camera (pro)" I love it, and it works better than my stock camera at taking burst shots.
  Everyone always asks how I got such a perfect shot with my camera, I don't tell them I took 50 and went through them all to get just the right one:)
  Cheers
11. Re:Interesting. by gmuslera · 2013-11-30 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  The problem in both PC and phones are drivers, not all are open, or not all are available. But as Android phones must have them, you can build other linux based OSs on top of android/cyanogenmod base system, and thats what are doing Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS, and apparently Sailfish.
12. Re:Interesting. by dbIII · 2013-11-30 17:50 · Score: 1
  
  According to some guy called bingoUV on the other Jolla thread most android phones have unlocked bootloaders that you don't have to hack - and his specific example was "all Samsung phones in the last two years". That doesn't seem correct to me, especially since I had a little Samsung "pocket" phone that was locked down tight. Is he correct or do these things come with locked bootloaders that have to be exploited to get in at all?
13. Re: Interesting. by tleaf100 · 2013-11-30 17:59 · Score: 1
  
  htc used to.it was called the htc hd2. they accepted the warrenty what ever os you had stuck on it,i think it was 9 different os's you could load onto it,and it would run. then folk started locking the bootloaders etc.
14. Re:Interesting. by Luckyo · 2013-11-30 18:41 · Score: 1
  
  He's likely talking about Chinese versions of said phones, as well as generally phones on Chinese market. At least some of them are known to be open.
15. Re:Interesting. by Luckyo · 2013-11-30 19:16 · Score: 1
  
  From what I heard about this particular model, it has some issues like 3G that doesn't work in some places in EU at all (in addition to having no LTE at all), ROM that comes with it is very buggy (which is the main reason why they update it as much as they advertise it - they kind of have to). And the ROM it comes with is apparently still on 4.1, so you really should get cyanogenmod for it.
  So like most of these chinese android phones this one has its issues, that are often not known until someone you know gets one and actually tries it out. Caveat emptor.
16. Re:Interesting. by suy · 2013-11-30 19:32 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  As I understand it, that is not going to happen if you want Google's bless (i.e. their applications and Google Play Services, which are critical for some applications to work). Read Google’s iron grip on Android, especially page 3.
  
  Since the Kindle OS counts as an incompatible version of Android, no major OEM is allowed to produce the Kindle Fire for Amazon. So when Amazon goes shopping for a manufacturer for its next tablet, it has to immediately cross Acer, Asus, Dell, Foxconn, Fujitsu, HTC, Huawei, Kyocera, Lenovo, LG, Motorola, NEC, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, and ZTE off the list. Currently, Amazon contracts Kindle manufacturing out to Quanta Computer, a company primarily known for making laptops. Amazon probably doesn't have many other choices.
  Seems like a terrible move against market freedom. Even worse for consumer freedom.
17. Re:Interesting. by JonBoy47 · 2013-11-30 20:02 · Score: 1
  
  Hmmm... I did an Applecare+ warranty replacement of my iPhone after it went for a swim. The process took all of three hours, including the drive out to the mall, eating lunch at the mall, the Genius doing a last-minute iCloud backup of the old phone before wiping it, swapping my iPhone out for a new-to-me iPhone he got from the stock-room out back, and waiting around until the iCloud restore of the new iPhone to completed via the in-store wifi.
18. Re:Interesting. by Lennie · 2013-11-30 21:15 · Score: 1
  
  Depends on what more memory and higher resolution does with the battery life.
  If the Jolla device has twice the battery life, I wouldn't mind paying for that.
  
  --
  New things are always on the horizon
19. Re: Interesting. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 21:42 · Score: 1
  
  Boot phone to fastbootmode by holding volume down while powering on.
  Attach usb cable.
  In the Android SDK directory is a program called fastboot.
  fastboot oem unlock
  This unlocks the boot loader but also wipes the system.
  Most if not all Android phones should support fastboot.
20. Re:Interesting. by jovius · 2013-11-30 22:04 · Score: 2
  
  Google play and services can be installed on Jolla (and other devices too?).
21. Re:Interesting. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-01 00:19 · Score: 0
  
  Oppo are certainly making impressive inroads. They have phones that should cater to any power user. I myself, like the Oppo R819. Amazinly it's even lighter than an iPhone 5s despite its larger size - 111g - remarkable!!
22. Re:Interesting. by suy · 2013-12-01 00:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I saw that earlier this morning, but I wonder how legal is that, and how easily you can be blocked by Google. I doubt is a solution for a vendor.
23. Re:Interesting. by hydrofix · 2013-12-01 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  It's obviously not "legal", as per the Ars article you posted (thanks for the interesting read BTW) these Google Play components are proprietary closed-source apps, that are only available under a license to the Open Handset Alliance members, which Jolla is of course not, since it's manufacturing a non-Google approved version of Android. So while you might be able to install Play on your Jolla, I would think its impossible for Jolla to ship their phone with Google Play pre-installed. Though depending on other restrictions on the phone, it might be possible to make an easily downloadable "pirate" package that will install unlicensed Google Play on the phone, so that non-technical users can benefit from the full Android ecosystem.
  What comes to Google "blocking" this hack, I am quite skeptical. If they add some software detection that you are running the Play services on a licensed device, we know from PC world that it will be hacked and people will start distributing "cracked" copies of the APK (Android application package). But AFAIK, Android phones support DRM as well, which can make things little tricker if Google one day really wants to shut off this competition.
24. Re:Interesting. by AvitarX · 2013-12-01 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  Is that the one by Spritefish?
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
25. Re:Interesting. by Eunuchswear · 2013-12-01 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  ROM that comes with it is very buggy
  
  Oh for fucks sake.
  This is Linux, not Android. There is no "ROM".
  Since it's RPM based (boo) you just need to do a "yum update".
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
26. Re:Interesting. by Luckyo · 2013-12-01 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  I am talking about the chinese android phone, not the jolla one. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear in the initial post, I figured that with things like "3g that doesn't work in Europe" and "version 4.1" would make it evident enough.
27. Re:Interesting. by mellon · 2013-12-01 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  Bits, or it didn't happen. I'm looking forward to this if it's real, but we haven't seen any actual code drop yet. As for a PC-like standard, not really—there are too many variations in the hardware. E.g., different CPUs require significant differences in the drivers, plus there's the whole rooting/bricking issue. It would be great if market pressure for what you're describing started to develop, but we certainly aren't seeing that at present.
28. Re:Interesting. by EETech1 · 2013-12-01 17:01 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it is. Sorry, I was going to link to it, but I ran out of time (are you on that damn phone again!)
  It works really well, you can adjust the amount of RAM for buffering and the burst speed as well as many other settings. It also can make GIFs out of your shots.
  It can take a while to store all the photos (you can take a lot in a very short time) and every once in a while Android will say it's not responding, but it is just busy dumping RAM to disk (a fast SD card helps a lot here) so don't force close it. It also helps to leave your phone on and don't hit the home button while it is saving, especially if you have it set to use all available RAM for the buffer. Android will sometimes shut the App down, or stop saving the files if you hit home, or put it to sleep when it is using all of your RAM and CPU.
  I have taken pictures of a stop watch, and on a clean boot, in airplane mode, with nothing else running, I can get nearly 40 pics/second at 1920 X 1080! The timing can be a little uneven when set to take pics as fast as possible, but hey, it's on an android phone, and setting it to a fixed number (example 20) per second takes them at fairly even intervals!
  I use it a lot at work to see what is going on with our machines, and I always get great pictures of the kids (that are the envy of everyone with a digital camera:) and always end up taking pictures for everyone else with it too.
  I bought the app after using the free version once. I've also found the developer to be very responsive to my problems, and always adding new features as well.
  I've also tried other burst mode apps, and Fast Burst Camera Pro is by far the best one I've found.
  IANAFBCPD
  (I am not a Fast Burst Camera Pro Developer)
  Cheers!
29. Re:Interesting. by AvitarX · 2013-12-01 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks, I purchased it assuming that's the one you meant, I was somewhat unsure as they don't call it pro (simply dropping the lite).
  My only gripe is that I can't use anything over 1080P (there's a checkbox to enable higher resolutions, but it doesn't appear to actually allow them).
  I loved the gif making, and it is indeed fast.
  Also, the lite version is pretty complete, so good on them for being cool people.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
30. Re:Interesting. by Eunuchswear · 2013-12-01 20:53 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, I fail at reading comprehension.
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
31. Re:Interesting. by bingoUV · 2013-12-02 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Void warranty - yes. For those who flash a custom ROM, it is typically trivial to flash back the original ROM, so it is possible to take most advantages of the warranty. But, of course, it is against the warranty contract.
  Hack - depends on the definition of "hack". Samsung hasn't released a bootloader locked Android phone device in 2 years. HTC hasn't released such device in slightly less than 2 years. Sony has an application on their own website to open bootloaders for most of their Android phones.
  Yes, you still have to do the fastboot, or adb, or some such method. It can be called "hacking". It is likely to take less than 20 minutes to do safely by even a slightly competent user even if inexperienced in this sense. But bootloader locked devices are not very common these days - because of these 3 companies which are dominant.
  
  --
  Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
The Chinglish. by adolf · 2013-11-30 10:14 · Score: 1, Insightful

What is this crazy moon-man language?

--
Kid-proof tablet..
1. Re:The Chinglish. by Stormwatch · 2013-11-30 11:41 · Score: 2
  
  Suomi.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
Re:LOL!!! by Ol+Olsoc · 2013-11-30 10:19 · Score: 4, Funny

Can it be officially installed up my anus?
What are you going to talk out of then?

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by jabberw0k · 2013-11-30 10:22 · Score: 1

Ugh, this again. You have one piece of software, you have one piece of hardware, and one piece of firmware. You do not "change firmwares" but rather you "change (the) firmware." You wouldn't say you "update the informations" or "upgrade your hardwares" or "go change your clothings" -- would you? Grammar, please.
1. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  This are egregious errors.
2. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by camperdave · 2013-11-30 13:29 · Score: 1
  
  Some barbarian tongues don't have a distinction between mass nouns and count nouns.
  That doesn't license you to translate them improperly when you move to a civilized language.
  
  --
  When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
3. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by khellendros1984 · 2013-11-30 14:51 · Score: 0
  
  But you *do* say "update the data", "upgrade your components", and "go change your clothes". "Informations" isn't a word. Nor is "hardwares" or "clothings".
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
4. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by Luckyo · 2013-11-30 18:43 · Score: 1
  
  When they do translate them to civilized language, the don't translate them improperly!
5. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by jones_supa · 2013-11-30 22:40 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know how grammatically correct it is, but I have heard people say for example "if the hardware problem persists, consider switching laptops".
6. Re:"Firmware" and "Software" and "Hardware" by Eunuchswear · 2013-12-01 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  By definition the only Civilised language is Latin, and all languages that are not Greek are Bararian.
  (So the only Civilised language is spoken by Barbarians, and the people who speek the only non-Barbarian language are Uncivilised).
  
  --
  Watch this Heartland Institute video
sailfish eats ice cream sandwich by turkeydance · 2013-11-30 10:26 · Score: 1

then KitKat unwraps Ubuntu. i'm hungry.
1. Re:sailfish eats ice cream sandwich by Geeky · 2013-11-30 10:35 · Score: 2
  
  Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock, Sailfish, Ice Cream Sandwich, KitKat, Ubuntu.
  
  --
  Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
2. Re:sailfish eats ice cream sandwich by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 13:42 · Score: 0
  
  then KitKat unwraps Ubuntu. i'm hungry.
  KitKat with Ubuntu leaves you Hungary, but add a side of Sailfish and u will be Finnish. Check please.
3. Re:sailfish eats ice cream sandwich by ganjadude · 2013-12-01 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  +1 comment of the day
  
  --
  have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Re:LOL!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 10:38 · Score: 0

Well, that depends entirely on whenther or not your anus is an Android device.
What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-11-30 10:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

Talouselämä Magazine met Jolla CEO Tomi Pienimäki and asked a puzzling question. If Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices, is Jolla going to let individual users to install the Sailfish operating system on the Android devices that they already have?
That certainly is a puzzling question if you have absolutely no idea what Jolla and Sailfish are.
Go ahead, rant and rave all you want and ask me how I dare to read Slashdot if I don't know what they are already, but would it kill you just to give a hint of what Jolla and Sailfish are? At least then I'd have some idea whether the article might fall within my interest without having to research it. That is what a summary is meant to be for, isn't it?
And it can be done so easily without looking like you've dumbed it down - they do it all the time proper news sites.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
1. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 10:54 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Thank you for posting this, even though you'll surely get flamed six ways from Sunday for it.
  This kind of news item on this site is a perfect example of the myopia and arrogance that runs rampant here. I've been reading this site since it's earliest days, and I still check in (via RSS reader) a couple of times a day. But I am constantly amazed by how hard people here work to ghetto-ize themselves -- just like the so-called "Linux community".
  Here's a hint: If you want to maintain the security of being a fringe player with no responsibility that everyone else laughs at, then keep up your lazy, selfish ways. If you want to be a major player, then clean up your act.
2. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by majesticmerc · 2013-11-30 10:54 · Score: 1
  - Jolla is a company that formed from Nokia employees that resigned over Nokias wholesale shift to Windows Phone and started their own company
  - Sailfish is a smartphone OS based off the MeeGo operating system.
3. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by pspahn · 2013-11-30 10:58 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  And you'd think if someone was paying for a slashvertisement, they would want to make sure potential customers/users knew how to pronounce the name.
  Since they didn't, I'll just go ahead and let everyone know that it's pronounced JOE-lah and that any other pronunciation is totally incorrect.
  
  --
  Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
4. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by preflex · 2013-11-30 11:15 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  would it kill you just to give a hint of what Jolla and Sailfish are?
  They gave you several hints.
  "Jolla CEO Tomi Pienimäki": Hmm. Jolla must be a corporation. That name sounds Finnish.
  "If Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices...": Jolla seems to be making some sort of cell phone software.
  "Is Jolla going to let individual users to install the Sailfish operating system ..." Sailfish is an operating system for cell phones.
  So, Jolla is a Finnish cell phone company that is producing an OS called Sailfish. It will be installable on Android devices. It seems like you would have enough information there to know if you want to know more. They've even provided all the relevant keywords: "Jolla", "Sailfish", which you can enter into a search engine to find more information
  Complaining about this makes you appear stupid and lazy.
5. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 11:29 · Score: 0
  
  Look at me - I'm so fucking smart! That's why I read slashdot.
6. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 11:32 · Score: 0
  
  Why don't you just read another site's news, Mr. Dumbass?
7. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 11:54 · Score: 0
  
  Go ahead, rant and rave all you want and ask me how I dare to read Slashdot if I don't know what they are already
  Are you sure you read Slashdot? I mean, there was a story about Jolla and Sailfish yesterday and the day before. If you don't know what they are, you have no one to blame but yourself.
8. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 12:05 · Score: 0
  
  Why don't you just read another site's news, Mr. Dumbass?
  'cause he's jealous.
9. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Jiro · 2013-11-30 12:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Generally, the detail which is important to the reader is what distinguishes the referenced item from other things like it. It is uninformative for a Slashdot article to name a disease, type of food, operating system, or anything else without saying what it is. Just the fact that the reader can figure out that it is a disease, food, or operating system doesn't make the article informative. It's possible to figure out something from almost any article, no matter how poorly written. It's still poorly written.
10. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 12:19 · Score: 0
  
  "Jolla CEO Tomi Pienimäki": Hmm. Jolla must be a corporation. That name sounds Finnish.
  My word association put Jolla (pronounced HOY-e) somewhere near San Diego, nearby where Finn named Linus once lived. I just assumed all expat Finns in the US would want to go someplace with weather like San Diego. Shows how myopic my hint engine is.
  I'm not sure what to think of an OS created by former Nokia programmers. It isn't as if they did a bang up job when they had the resources of a giant corporation backing them. I hope for them, their failures with Nokia were more a result of poor management then they were a lack of quality or value proposition. Right now there are many flavors of Android - mature with a large test, install, and app base - that are worth voiding warranties for. Unless Sailfish gets picked up by a handset mfg, I'm not sure why one would bother.
11. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by ifiwereasculptor · 2013-11-30 12:28 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry about that. We'll be appending Wikipedia to every article in the future. It's not like you could search it or Google on a separate browser tab, anyway, right?
12. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by foobar+bazbot · 2013-11-30 12:56 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  ... I am constantly amazed by how hard people here work to ghetto-ize themselves -- just like the so-called "Linux community".
  Here's a hint: If you want to maintain the security of being a fringe player with no responsibility that everyone else laughs at, then keep up your lazy, selfish ways. If you want to be a major player, then clean up your act.
  Right now, I have a free OS that does what I need it do, and that I can tinker with whenever I feel like it. And I've got plenty of choice -- i presently use Arch, but I've used (and could go back to) netbsd and slackware, and I could go pick up gentoo, debian, etc. if arch stopped updating, or decided to go in a direction I don't like.
  What do I get out of making the "Linux community" a "major player"? At best, those things stay the same when it becomes "a major player" -- in fact, it's liable to become worse, because of the need to cater to the lowest common denominator (cf. Ubuntu).
  You say lots of other people (who I don't care about) would start using Linux? OK, then maybe they should wish Linux community becomes "major player" (in reality, they should probably just use OS X -- all the same UNIXiness, a nice polished layer of user-friendliness, and neither them nor we of the Linux community need to get on one another's nerves!), but you're not preaching to them, you're preaching to me, and I just don't care what OS they use.
  You say the increased market share would force manufacturers to provide hardware drivers? Well, that might actually be a good argument -- particularly if there were some reason to suppose this doesn't just mean more buggy binary-only drivers. (If this argument was sound, wouldn't we see lots of good from the "success" of Linux by way of Android in getting usable hardware drivers? No, we've got a ton of binary junk, and dozens of separately-maintained hardware-specific forks.) And the only times in the past decade I've run into this hardware-support problem that Linux supposedly has were 5 years ago when I had trouble with a USB-attached webcam in a laptop, and 3 years ago when I made the mistake of getting a UMPC with GMA500/Poulsbo graphics because I skipped the research, thinking Intel graphics==good support. I'm sure there's a lot of unsupported hardware out there, I'm just not running into it very often, and when I do, I don't see any evidence that being a "major player" would actually make it any better.
  And I'm just not insecure enough to need the validation of knowing I'm a Major Player, or to care that "everyone else laughs at [us]" (And I note that's the one argument you could be arsed to actually make... good lord, man, see a shrink!) -- unless there's some real benefit to me, I don't see a reason to expend effort helping people who don't care enough to help themselves.
13. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-11-30 13:05 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's not like you could search it or Google on a separate browser tab, anyway, right?
  It's not like I should have to, if Slashdot wants to be a news site which informs its readership. Call me lazy if you wish, but I prefer to be less mystified after reading the news.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
14. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-11-30 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  Both of those articles - now that I've gone back and found them, I don't recall seeing them in the RSS feed - neatly and succinctly explain what Jolla and Sailfish are.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
15. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by preflex · 2013-11-30 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. The article and summary are badly written. However, parent was complaining there was no "hint" as to the identities of Jolla and Sailfish. He was so emphatic about the word "hint" that he used the emphasis tag. I simply pointed out that there were plenty of hints available, and that those hints should indicate whether the article might fall within his interests. He could simply ask, "Am I interested in installing an alternative OS on an Android phone?". If yes, research Jolla and Sailfish. If no, don't.
  
  I understand that he didn't really want hints, and that he wanted explicit background information. However, parent's statements were so exaggerated that they undermined his argument by being demonstrably false.
16. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by war4peace · 2013-11-30 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  Alternatively, they should put that gizmo which makes a nice underlined thingie on the word, which you can click and then read an interesting article about the word with the thingie and the gizmo on it. ...I think they're called "hyperlinks", or so I'm told.
  
  --
  ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
17. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by war4peace · 2013-11-30 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  ...Or we could just stop going to Slashdot and find the news ourselves. How about that? Since Slashdot doesn't give us the links anyway...
  
  --
  ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
18. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Luke+has+no+name · 2013-11-30 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  "Jolla CEO Tomi Pienimäki": Hmm. Jolla must be a corporation. Who the fuck knows where it's from? Startups generate names from a version of scrabble with added "ly" and "io" pieces.
  "If Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices...": Wait just a second, if I read this first, I'd think Jolla is a piece of software, not a corporation. Which is it? Now I have to search on the net instead of getting info from the summary like is proper.
  "Finnish company Jolla CEO says their MeeGo-based operating system Sailfish will be compatible with Android devices".
19. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by trackedvehicle · 2013-11-30 14:21 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's pronounced yol-lah. "Jolla" means dinghy in Finnish.
20. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 14:54 · Score: 1
  
  The real problem is more that many talented geeks start to believe that only what they're good at & understand is worthwhile -- which might explain Slashdot's lack of editors -- and thus that anyone with different knowledge/talents must be (to quote someone below) a "dumbass." The attitude not only leads to unnecessarily complex writing, it drives the users away that do have the right combination of tech knowledge &writing talent needed to do a much better job.
  The problem isn't universal among Linux communities, however -- the oldest distros with a history of being used in professional settings aren't like that, nor are many of the descendants that focus on what their regular users want/need. They seem to understand that users want & need explanations that can be read without a lot of extra research
  I don't know why you'd refer to the whole collective as only a "so-called 'community'" so I can't really respond to it.
21. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 15:09 · Score: 0
  
  ["Jolla"] sounds Finnish.
  It looks Spanish to me -- being from California, I don't exactly haveexperience with Finns.
22. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by R3d+M3rcury · 2013-11-30 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  I dare to read Slashdot if I don't know what they are already
  Perhaps if you read slashdot, say, two days ago, you'd have come across this.
  Don't blame us because you were stuffing yourself with turkey and can't be bothered to stay up with what's going on in the tech world. It's a fast moving world--please try to keep up. :^D
  Seriously, though, it's a worthwhile note to editors.
23. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by murdocj · 2013-11-30 16:04 · Score: 1
  
  Congratulations, you just proved the GP's point.
24. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by pspahn · 2013-11-30 16:06 · Score: 0
  
  Which I would have never guessed.
  Honestly, I figured it was either hoya (as in La Jolla) or hawl-ah (like hollar/holla). But if they want to name their phone after a crappy little boat that's their deal, though, I can see why they would prefer to keep it a secret.
  
  --
  Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
25. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by __aaltlg1547 · 2013-11-30 16:31 · Score: 1
  
  I'm more interested in what advantage there might be in running Sailfish instead of Android -- if any?
26. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by chmod+a+x+mojo · 2013-11-30 17:31 · Score: 1
  
  but would it kill you just to give a hint of what Jolla and Sailfish are?
  Maybe the editor has a slightly higher reading comprehension level?
  
  If Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices, is Jolla going to let individual users to install the Sailfish operating system on the Android devices that they already have?
  Now the only thing left is what is Jolla, and it is obvious that it something to do with Android devices.
  
  --
  To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
27. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by aliquis · 2013-11-30 17:39 · Score: 2
  
  The name make sense.
  Jolla is created by former Nokia employe(s) and Sailfish is a continuation of MeeGo which was a Nokia OS.
  When Stephen Elop had had become CEO of Nokia and revealed the future direction about how they would ditch Symbian, just relase one MeeGo phone and switch over to Windows Phone he compared the situation to a burning oil platform where you may not want to jump into the cold water but ..
  And if you look back at that and where Nokia went it isn't all that weird that someone took their little boat http://www.trabatsakuten.nu/batbilder/jollar_roddbatar/images/Jolle2.jpg and row away with MeeGo and see where that would take them :)
28. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by aliquis · 2013-11-30 17:46 · Score: 2
  
  .. or that people who are left into the water may want to get picked up by one and rescued :)
29. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by foobar+bazbot · 2013-11-30 17:48 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure what to think of an OS created by former Nokia programmers. It isn't as if they did a bang up job when they had the resources of a giant corporation backing them.
  Have you used an N9? Because IMO they did a really outstanding job of going from the nerd-centric Maemo 4.x (and earlier) on the 770, N800, and N810, through the kinda-sorta-enduser-ready Maemo 5.0 on the N900, to the fully enduser N9's "Meego/Harmattan" (which despite the name was essentially Maemo 6, with Meego libraries added; the next version would have been the first one built solely on Meego). Not saying N9 was a great enduser OS, just that they did a much better job that I expected of making that specific transition.
  While there are plenty of faults to be pointed out with any version of Maemo or Meego/Harmattan, I felt that Meego/Harmattan really was in fair shape to compete with iOS and Android if/when Nokia reallocated enough resources from Symbian to Meego to make a serious effort. Keep in mind they didn't have the resources of a giant corporation -- they had the resources of one small division of that corporation.
  
  I hope for them, their failures with Nokia were more a result of poor management then they were a lack of quality or value proposition.
  Everything I've heard suggests there were serious management issues, because much of Nokia upper management were "old guard", committed to Symbian, and were prone to viewing Maemo as a competitor.
  Then again, if the truth was "Well, we kinda suck at our jobs", I suppose "Management stabbed us in the back" is exactly what one would expect to hear.
  
  Right now there are many flavors of Android - mature with a large test, install, and app base - that are worth voiding warranties for. Unless Sailfish gets picked up by a handset mfg, I'm not sure why one would bother.
  While it's not obvious from TFS, Jolla is a handset manufacturer as well. They're making and selling (in Finland only, at the moment) a handset running Sailfish, but they are also promoting the idea of running that Sailfish on Android devices.
  While this does sound like enabling their own competition (why buy a Jolla phone when you can buy an HTC and install Sailfish?), the idea, as I understand it, is to come at the install-base vs. app-base chicken/egg problem from both ends -- by bootstrapping the app base with android apps, and bootstrapping the install base with android devices. Sailfish uses Android video drivers, so it can be relatively easily run anywhere Android runs (even platforms where no open-source video drivers exist). It runs Android apps with a compatibility layer. So it's most people with Android phones could switch to Sailfish, even though it doesn't start with a huge store of native apps, because you just use the same Android apps you already use. Only a tiny fraction of them will, of course, but a tiny fraction of all android users is still a good many. This gets you an install base, even though you don't yet have a good native app base.
  Now that install base is hopefully big enough to make app development attractive; soon, users who switched from android start finding better native apps for a few things, and then they're hooked in the Sailfish ecosystem. Next time they buy a new phone, they may go with one made by Jolla, to save the hassle of installing Sailfish. They also evangelize others who are looking for a new Android phone, and get some of them to buy a Jolla phone instead -- particularly others who aren't skilled enough to or simply don't care to install a new OS on their new phone.
  Eventually, Sailfish becomes so popular that HTC, Samsung, etc. all start shipping phones with it, and Jolla fades into obscurity? Or HTC (or whoever) buys out Jolla? Or something... Maybe they pull a Google and have some non-open stuff available for license by manufacturers, as well as the open base system. Or maybe they just become one of many Sailfish handset makers, and compete as best they can on features.
  I'm really not sure how the endgame works. I don't know how well the parts of the plan I do understand will work out for them, but "success" in one form or another is not inconceivable.
30. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 21:37 · Score: 0
  
  That's easy - you see, Jolla is a company which is currently promoting a new (nameless) mobile phone. So the question goes, if this company Jolla truly is compatible with Android devices... wait, what? How can the company be compatible with Android devices?
31. Re: What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 21:49 · Score: 0
  
  What about what Android is? Or Ubuntu? Or a mobile phone? Must everything be spoon fed or can you take a little responsibility and read the article or find out for yourself?
  I don't mean this in a bad way but where do you draw the line what is "known" and what isnt?
32. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by trackedvehicle · 2013-11-30 22:56 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, I figured it was either hoya (as in La Jolla) or hawl-ah (like hollar/holla). But if they want to name their phone after a crappy little boat that's their deal, though, I can see why they would prefer to keep it a secret.
  Your reply oozes with negativity.
33. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 23:11 · Score: 0
  
  amen to that!
  this is (was) a news for *nerds* site. I know the term nerd has since changed to mean 'hipster, but on a computer', but it used to mean 'semi-autistic-tech-freak'. If you go by the latter definition you can safely assume people know how to use google.
34. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 23:13 · Score: 0
  
  Why are you being so negative?
35. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by king+neckbeard · 2013-12-01 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say it's a fair wager that the number of parties that are interested in this and know what Jolla/Sailfish is outweigh the number of parties that don't know but are still interested. Slashdot is not intended to be a general purpose news site, and it has no reason to spoonfeed all readers on subjects that they are quite likely to already be familiar with.
  
  --
  This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
36. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by king+neckbeard · 2013-12-01 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  What 'proper news sites' are you talking about? Even significant amounts of tech press dumb things down, let alone news sources aimed at the general public.
  
  --
  This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
37. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by exomondo · 2013-12-01 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  What do I get out of making the "Linux community" a "major player"?
  Well the one key thing I can think of is better support from hardware manufacturers and major software developers.
38. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-12-01 20:24 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe the editor has a slightly higher reading comprehension level?
  It's a very poor editor who assumes everyone knows what he knows.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
39. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by wonkey_monkey · 2013-12-01 20:31 · Score: 1
  
  Take the current top story in the World section on BBC News:
  
  Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has rejected protesters' demands that she step down, amid ongoing clashes in Bangkok.
  Surely anyone even remotely interested in reading about that would already know who Yingluck Sinawatra is, right?
  Here's another one from Technology:
  
  Amazon, the world's largest online retailer, is testing unmanned drones to deliver goods to customers, Chief Executive Jeff Bezos says.
  I'd argue that far more people reading the BBC website will know what Amazon and Jeff Bezos are, than Slashdot readers would know what Jolla and Sailfish are.
  It's not dumbing down; it's for not pissing off the readers who need that little bit of extra information.
  Judging the moderation of and number of comments on my original comment, this is obviously a topic that riles people up one way or the other. With just a few extra words peppered here and there that no-one better informed would have even noticed, this summary could probably have been a lot clearer to a lot of people.
  
  --
  systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
40. Re:What's Jolla? What's Sailfish? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-02 09:25 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty sure by "that name" he mean Tomi's name. Not Jolla.
Re:Interesting. Happening now by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 10:49 · Score: 0

on eBay and CraigsList. That's where I have gotten my last few phones to avoid losing my Verizon unlimited data (son used 12GB one month while at a tech school without internet service in his "shack", so that's close enough to unlimited for me). No warranty aside from "good ESN to get on the network, and it will boot/WYSIWYG " (for most of those phones).
In a Microsoft office by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 12:10 · Score: 0

"What happened to us? We used to rule supreme. Every PC out there ran Windows, even those that didn't come with it. In the old day people would download Windows and replace their OS/2 or whatever. Now... they download this Jolla thing... why won't they download Windows instead, like they did before? Oh... right... fuck"
Windodows.
Yet nobody in Apple gave a fuck that day.
Unanswered question by symbolset · 2013-11-30 13:32 · Score: 1

Why?

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
1. Re:Unanswered question by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 15:45 · Score: 0
  
  Why?
  You're asking on the wrong site.
  The short answer is: because.
  The longer answer: Initially it will be limited to tinkerers. For them, it's the novelty of having something new on their phones. For Jolla, it means more people using their OS and more potential customers in the future. If you watch some of their presentations, they are more interested in building the ecosystem than they are in building the OS and the handsets.
It's MeeGo++ by Burz · 2013-11-30 13:47 · Score: 2

It's got some slight new UI twists. Other than that, in this benighted post-Snowden era, not one whit of apparent concern for security and privacy.
In looking for a new name, they should have called it MeeToo.
1. Re:It's MeeGo++ by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 15:43 · Score: 0
  
  Other than that, in this benighted post-Snowden era, not one whit of apparent concern for security and privacy.
  Running an OS that doesn't have gaping security and privacy holes would be a reason to switch from Android. Otherwise, seems like a waste of time.
So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips? by jphamlore · 2013-11-30 14:00 · Score: 2

So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips that can be found on all Android devices in China? In addition to ST-Ericsson, Qualcomm, Huawei, Samsung, MediaTek, etc.?
Re:So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 15:38 · Score: 1

So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips that can be found on all Android devices in China? In addition to ST-Ericsson, Qualcomm, Huawei, Samsung, MediaTek, etc.?
From what I understand about phone OS and cell phone hardware in general, there is some hardware abstraction for this. The drivers to baseband chips are fairly straight forward, and, since Sailfish is Linux, I would expect these drivers can be taken from Android (which also uses Linux for its hardware drivers).
The question to ask is: "what apps does Sailfish support?" Simply having another UI for my phone doesn't really do me any good if I can't run anything useful on it. And, by useful I mean decent phone apps, not desktop linux apps.
S4 by neuro88 · 2013-11-30 15:45 · Score: 1

I think I may very well put this on to my S4. I got the S4, because nothing else really looked appealing to me, but I'm really not a fan of touchwiz. If this is better than touchwiz (very hard not to be), then I'll give it a shot.

The fact that Sailfish uses Wayland also makes this very interesting to me.
1. Re:S4 by jalyst · 2013-11-30 21:46 · Score: 2
  
  It won't run well on anything that's not officially sanctioned/supported, people STILL don't seem to get the the Sailfish(Jolla) model/plans. Nemo will probably be slightly better longer-term, but it needs more time...
No X11? Then what's the point? by fikx · 2013-11-30 15:45 · Score: 1

If they dropped X11, then I can't share my device screen out. What exactly is the advantage of Sailfish over Android if it's just another isolated device like android?

--
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
1. Re:No X11? Then what's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 16:52 · Score: 0
  
  You can't do that with Wayland?
2. Re:No X11? Then what's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-02 02:04 · Score: 0
  
  Eh, desktop Linux distributions are considering dropping X11 in favor of Wayland. Do you also think they won't have an advantage over Android if they do so? Are you serious? No advantage of a full linux-based OS running native apps (as well as Android apps if needed) compared to the VM OS that Android is?
3. Re:No X11? Then what's the point? by fikx · 2013-12-02 16:15 · Score: 1
  
  simple answer : "No". Complex answer: Wayland can share a screen provided someone writes a separate piece of software to do it and you can deal with the model used by Mac and Windows, which is lower functionality than X11.
  
  X11 treats the screen as a resource shared by the X server. means the screen is available to any app on the network same as network storage, etc. Wayland left that out of "core" with the promise someone would be able to come along later and add something similar back in. Similar but not same...not that I'm bitter or anything.
  
  --
  AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
I doubt it by tom229 · 2013-11-30 15:51 · Score: 1

When their website doesn't even properly display on my phone.

--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
1. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-02 02:42 · Score: 0
  
  Renders perfectly on all three browsers I have on a Galaxy S3 - the default, Chrome and Firefox.
  I tried on an iPhone 4S I have for debugging and on the top image the second line of text is cut off. But Safari on the iPhone is something I never use anyway, the screen is very small (even the iPhone 5, too narrow) and Safari seems to have problems with too many sites, so I wouldn't blame Jolla for this one. Yes, Jobs would blame Jolla or me for holding it wrong, but he's dead now.
Re:So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips by foobar+bazbot · 2013-11-30 18:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

It will support Android apps.
Think of how desktop linuxen can support Windows apps using WINE -- they mostly won't be mistaken for native apps, some won't run, some will have odd glitches, some will run just fine. (I'm not saying that the proportion of apps in each of those categories will be anything like WINE, merely that there's bound to be some of each type.)
If the Android app support is good enough, it could make a huge difference in uptake -- after all, if anyone who can flash a custom ROM can flash Sailfish instead, then install all the apps they had under Android, then carry on like nothing's changed, it won't take much UI improvement/novelty to get a bunch of geeks to do just that, thus boosting their install base well above the number of handsets Jolla sells themselves. That larger install base makes development of Sailfish-native apps more attractive, which means more native apps, which means more reason to switch from Android to Sailfish.
Of course, if the Android app support isn't good enough, people will flash back to android because only half their apps work, Sailfish won't have the big install base, so you'll never get the native apps to replace all those borked android apps, and the whole thing collapses in a heap of fail.
Re:So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips by Anonymous Coward · 2013-11-30 18:14 · Score: 0

So I can run an Android Emulator on my ARM processor with 1GB of memory. Doesn't sound exciting.
Recent Slashdot Article - Jolla Phone, Sailfish OS by billstewart · 2013-11-30 18:54 · Score: 1

Wednesday's /. article on Jolla Phone and Sailfish OS. Sure would have helped if the summary had mentioned what "Meaningless-Name" and "OtherMeaninglessNameOS" were :-)

--

Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Re:So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips by jalyst · 2013-11-30 21:42 · Score: 1

So I can run an Android Emulator on my ARM processor with 1GB of memory. Doesn't sound exciting.
It's not an emulator, nothing like that at all, it runs native.
Re:So Sailfish / Jolla supports all baseband chips by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-01 01:48 · Score: 1

Think of how desktop linuxen can support Windows apps using WINE -- they mostly won't be mistaken for native apps, some won't run, some will have odd glitches, some will run just fine. (I'm not saying that the proportion of apps in each of those categories will be anything like WINE, merely that there's bound to be some of each type.)
..just like with normal android:)
What kind of useless phone do you have? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-02 02:12 · Score: 0

It is fine on my Android.
Re:LOL!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-05 05:11 · Score: 0

How officially do you need? Will any random LEO do or must you have Obama himself put it there?