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Thieves Who Stole Cobalt-60 Will Soon Be Dead

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The Washington Post reports that the carjackers who set off international alarm bells by absconding with a truckload of highly radioactive cobalt-60, used in hospital radiotherapy machines, most likely had no idea what they were stealing and will die soon from exposure. The robbery occurred as the cobalt-60 was being driven from a public hospital in the border town of Tijuana to a storage facility in central Mexico. While waiting for daybreak at a gas station in the state of Hidalgo the drivers were jumped by two gunmen who beat them and stole the truck. "I believe, definitely, that the thieves did not know what they had; they were interested in the crane, in the vehicle," says Mardonio Jimenez, a physicist with Mexico's nuclear safety commission. The prospect that material that could be used in a radioactive dirty bomb had gone missing sparked an urgent two-day hunt that concluded when the material, cobalt-60, used in hospital radiotherapy machines, was found along with the stolen Volkswagen truck. The cobalt-60 was found, removed from its casing, in a rural area near the town of Hueypoxtla about 25 miles from where the truck was stolen. Jimenez suspects that curiosity got the better of the thieves and they opened the box. So far the carjackers have not been arrested, but authorities expect they will not live long. "The people who handled it will have severe problems with radiation. They will, without a doubt, die.""

61 of 923 comments (clear)

  1. They will, without a doubt, die... by Spy+Handler · · Score: 5, Funny

    or gain superpowers.

    1. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Funny

      and be the syfy movie of the week.

    2. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by rossdee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now that is a fate worse than death

    3. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by alexander_686 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Probably not. Radioactive is a necessary but not sufficient cause for superpowers.

      You are going to need to combine that with spiders, toxic chemicals, a DNA X-factor, experimental drugs, or something else to kick off the process.

    4. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by JudgeFurious · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's already happened. This was rural Mexico for crying out loud. The odds that they weren't bit by a snake, spider, or donkey are miniscule at best. I'm betting on them being pricked by an Agave cactus. I want to see a superhero (or supervillain, I'm not picky) who attacks by peeing a stream of radioactive tequila and dresses like the Frito Bandito.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    5. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by Yeechang+Lee · · Score: 5, Funny

      and be the syfy movie of the week.

      Unlikely. Syfy prefers animals as the villains of its Saturday-night original movies, not people.

      Now, if it turns out that a shark or octopus (or, even better, both) stole the cobalt-60, then you'l have the network's attention. Expect Sharktopus II: Nuclear Boogaloo any week now.

    6. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by zarthrag · · Score: 5, Funny
      --
      Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    7. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by RCGodward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, don't make him mad.

    8. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by jason.sweet · · Score: 4, Funny

      Film continuity doesn't apply to the real continuity.

      Do you mean the real continuity described in the excellent historical references published by Marvel Comics?

    9. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Funny

      Expect Sharktopus II: Nuclear Boogaloo any week now

      The second and third Sharktopus movies are already in the works, so this one would be Sharktopus IV: A Nuclear Hope.

    10. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cobaltacabra!

    11. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by budgenator · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well if you consider projectile vomiting and diarhea a superpower.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    12. Re:They will, without a doubt, die... by bondsbw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, death implies an end. Syfy shows rarely have a proper ending.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  2. Tough luck.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instant Karma is gonna get ya...

    1. Re:Tough luck.. by jythie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The karma in this case seems rather disproportional. Yeah, what they did was horrible, but death, esp such an ugly death, seems a bit out of balance.

    2. Re:Tough luck.. by casings · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I completely and utterly disagree.

      You clearly haven't been the victim of any robberies at gunpoint. It is terrifying and life-changing and most victims usually end up with some sort of PTSD. It takes a sick and depraved mind to commit such acts, and those responsible fully deserve death. There are far too many people in this world to allow people who are willing to kill to continue to breathe the same air as the rest of the population.

    3. Re:Tough luck.. by kirkb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Welcome to Mexico, where the highs and lows in life are disproportionately higher/lower than what first-world countries are used to.

      --
      Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
    4. Re:Tough luck.. by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know a lot of people don't agree with us, but this isn't a case of stealing to feed your starving family; anyone willing to so wantonly disregard the rights of others for personal gain does not belong in our society.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:Tough luck.. by chilvence · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is defined as Karma, for your convenience.

    6. Re:Tough luck.. by jythie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Having been jumped and beating unconscious, I still do not wish a painful horrible death on the people who did it.

    7. Re:Tough luck.. by tibit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, you see, but you're being rational about it. Others seem ready to be driven by unabated hate.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    8. Re:Tough luck.. by Ash+Vince · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How badly would the drivers have had to been beaten for it to be more proportional?

      I thought the US was supposed to be a christian country and slashdot was supposed to be am mostly american site (I say mostly because I am actually british)?

      Didn't Jesus say:

        'You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.'

      So in other words even though there are shitty people in the world then anyone who considers themselves a christian should strive to not seek revenge against such people by killing them or wishing them to be killed. Instead they should forgive and leave any judgment for the lord. Wishing an agonising death upon them would then surely never be proportional, no matter how harshly they beat their victims.

      But of course nobody in the US seems to actually give a shit about this part of Jesus' teachings or else you would not have the death penalty.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    9. Re:Tough luck.. by Patch86 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you think stealing a van and hitting someone warrants death, you are an unhinged individual (or more likely, an internet tough guy). Even the Old Testament said "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"- that is, the punishment should match the crime. If someone takes your eye out, you're entitled to take up to one eye- not the whole head.

      And I don't think there are many people who would argue that the Old Testament was too lenient...

    10. Re:Tough luck.. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Informative

      They could have been intending to use it to make dirty bomb what could have exposed hundreds, if not thousands to such an ugly death.

      The dirty bomb, as a weapon of mass destruction, is a myth. Disperse the radioactive material far enough to affect a large number of people, and you disperse the radiation as well. The concentration of radioactive material decreases as the square of the radius of the area of dispersal.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:Tough luck.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      anyone willing to so wantonly disregard the rights of others for personal gain does not belong in our society.

      And yet, this seems to be the very premise of America these days.

    12. Re:Tough luck.. by jythie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not really no. Caught and punished yes. killed? No.

    13. Re:Tough luck.. by rwise2112 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I believe in karma, which is why, when I do something bad to people, I assume they deserve it.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    14. Re:Tough luck.. by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being the one beaten is one thing.

      Being a friend or relative of the one attacked usually is far worse. Stuff like having a friend's son whom you grew up with tasered to death (the thieves wanted to know "where the valuables were", and kept pulling the trigger until the victim's heart gave out) makes one not really empathetic with violent criminals who do this sort of stuff.

    15. Re: Tough luck.. by wo1verin3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is no way Jesus said that, my gardener can barely speak two words of English.

    16. Re:Tough luck.. by Ravaldy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think this one was karma but rather Darwinism. I'm sure the containers had plenty of warnings. They were crooked and DUMB.

    17. Re:Tough luck.. by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's a difference between wanting them killed and finding them dead as a result of their crime a convenient outcome.

      Every time a would-be-criminal ends up killing themselves because of their own stupidity, I smile.

    18. Re:Tough luck.. by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The karma is not for what they did but what they could have done with it.

      Good point. And your mom should be charged with prostitution, because she could do it.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    19. Re:Tough luck.. by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The dirty bomb, as a weapon of mass destruction, is a myth.

      Absolutely correct, however a dirty bomb isn't really a weapon of mass destruction, it's a weapon of terror. Given the fear economy that has been driving the US for the last decade or so, I imagine it would be a highly effective weapon too.

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
    20. Re:Tough luck.. by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This, right here.

      There is no call for capital punishment on a carjacker. However, if a couple of them die painfully after giving a couple of innocent folks a severe beating, doing so at gunpoint, and all because they were too dumbassed to ignore the warnings splayed all over the container?

      I really cannot bring myself to feel bad about the outcome.

      For those who feel otherwise, look at it this way: When you use a lethal weapon to commit a crime, you state to the world that you are willing to kill innocent people in order to get what you want, no matter what. From the moment when you point that gun at someone, your life is automatically forfeit should you die as a result of committing that crime. It doesn't matter if you died instantly because the victim shot back, or because every orifice you have is slowly bleeding out of your swollen body due to radiation exposure... you got what was coming to you.

      Oh, you're dying a painful death from the stuff you stole and some bleeding-heart type on Slashdot says I should show you some sympathy? Okay: you'll find sympathy in the dictionary between "shit" and "syphilis".

      On the plus side, maybe the next person contemplating violent acts to get what they want will think twice because of these two Darwin Award winners?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    21. Re:Tough luck.. by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sheesh? All I was suggesting is that asking why they choose one method of theft over another is, well.... because they are likely dumb and it didn't even occur to them.

      It might be worth considering that just because a person is wrong doesn't mean that is the end of the story. Criminals are generally a symptom of larger social issues. Morality is nice and all, but, just stopping at the morality of it and deciding they were wrong; is simultaneously correct and useless. You may as well be pointing out that water is wet.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    22. Re:Tough luck.. by geekoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My mother was a drunkard and crazy. I was 12 and had to feed her and my two brothers.
      Yeah, I stole. Robbed bread trucks, soda trucks, I would go into busy pizza places and just grab a pie off the counter and walk out.
      It was always a last resort, it was always about basic survival.
      And if I had to do it again, I would.

      You clearly had other avenues to get food and shelter.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    23. Re:Tough luck.. by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Excuse me Euroweenie. The death penalty is about as direct eye for an eye and you are likely to see. This punishment is reserved for the worst of the worst.

      Do you not remember John 7:53-8:11, the story of the adultress to be stoned? Jesus was not in favor of capital punishment ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."), and was in favor of forgiveness as a general principle.

      At that, it's is almost totally unused in the states, with the exception of a few states. An in the cases where it is applied, this is always after numerous expensive appeals.

      The death penalty is still in effect in 32 out of 50 states and at the federal level. 3 of the states which banned it recently have not done so retroactively, leaving prisoners still awaiting their execution. While Texas is an extreme outlier for executions, 10 states have had an average of 1 execution per year or more since the penalty was reestablished in 1976. The South as a whole has executed over 1100 people since then.

      So we may disagree on this, but to characterize the US as a bunch of death penalty fiends is completely absurd.

      And yet we're the only Western country that still has the death penalty; most of the civilized world has given it up. We're also the Western country with (by far) the highest rate of incarceration and the longest prison sentences. We're also one of the few that allows the use of plea bargaining to compel guilty pleas, and many of our states disenfranchise felons, which is also rare in Western democracies. Gallup polls show that 57% of Americans still support the death penalty (down from a peak of around 80% in 1994.)

      Over all, we're a very harsh regime when it comes to law enforcement, and the death penalty is just part and parcel of a nation that believes on some level that criminals aren't human and don't deserve to be treated as such. Punishment is part of our culture, not rehabilitation, and certainly not Christian forgiveness.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    24. Re:Tough luck.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      How many cranes did you steal to feed your family?

      Usually about one each week, which is how long the meat would last before going bad.

      They're slender birds so you'd might not think that one could last a family of four (myself, my mother, and my two sisters) that long, but in desperate situations people learn to make do.

  3. radioactive markings by Danathar · · Score: 5, Funny

    On my lunch bag when I put it in the fridge at work I put

    "Strontium-90 - RADIOACTIVE" on one side

    The other I put

    "LIVE SPECIMEN - BIOHAZZARD"

    1. Re:radioactive markings by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you had Hot Pockets for lunch?

  4. Darwin by ableeker · · Score: 5, Funny

    I nominate these guys for the Darwin award!

    1. Re:Darwin by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Informative

      I nominate these guys for the Darwin award!

      These guys are amateurs compared to the Mexican scrappers who sold hospital equipment containing 6,000 pellets of cobalt-60 for scrap. The machinery was then processed into rebar which was in turn was used in god knows how many homes in Mexico and the USA as well as metal furniture that ended ups as far away as Canada. The Mexicans even found pellets of cobalt-60 embedded into the asphalt surface of roads in Sinaloa and 109 houses had to be torn down and disposed of as radioactive waste. All in all some 5000 metric tons of steel were contaminated ... as far as is known. According to a documentary I watched about this incident there is a good possibility that there are still contaminated houses and furniture out there. The incident only came to light when a truck with a load of contaminated rebar drove past a Los Alamos laboratories radiation checkpoint and set of a whole bunch of alarms. One person died of bone cancer, another 4 were injured and least 10 individuals received significant exposures and some scrapyard workers became sterile. There is also a good chance that many more people either will, or already have, developed cancer since it took about a year to discover this snafu and even longer to track down all the contaminated material already in use. This story made me think about how US Homeland security worries about 'dirty bombs'. The only thing that still amazes me about that particular contingency is that it hasn't happened yet because highly radioactive material is apparently very easy to come by. The Juarez incident caused radiation sensors to be installed at all major border crossings but one wonders if this has been extended to every single crossing along the US/Mexican border. Either way, I'd be worried.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
  5. Re:isn't it possible to detect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You've been watching too much tv

  6. What was the make and model of the get away car? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    By any chance was it a 1964 Chevy Malibu?

  7. Re:OK. This is it. Making stencils right now. by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Funny

    You will be a hit with the TSA.

  8. Re: isn't it possible to detect by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Informative

    Geiger-Mueller detectors work on the photoelectric effect. Point source radiation is an inverse square law. You wouldn't detect this stuff even a few miles away. Reactors hardly release any isotopes. It's the thermals that show up on satellites

  9. Re:hmmm... by the_other_chewey · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here you go: The Goiânia accident.

    It wasn't an X-ray machine though, but a device for radiotherapy.
    Fortunately, X-ray machines are harmless when powered down.

  10. Re:"They will, without a doubt, die." by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's too bad they found that cobalt. If not, they would have lived forever!

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  11. Re:Good to see Justice Prevails by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

    ISO 21482 is pretty universal. Doesn't solve any of the nastier issues of cross-cultural-communication-without-shared-assumptions; but either that symbol, the old trefoil, or both, are about as iconic as warning labels get.

    Now, as for this 'cobalt 60 in those drug shipments' concept, it might expose the mules (who tend to be low level and treated as expendable anyway) to enough radiation to kill them, slowly; but the major effect would be on the customers: ie. the coke-snorting Americans whining about them. You wouldn't be the first to suggest this... particular approach, the winning the war on drugs; but I bet you'd learn some interesting things about who does drugs once the casualties start to pile up.

  12. Re:"They will, without a doubt, die." by Quila · · Score: 4, Informative

    They probably don't. They felt nausea after first handling it, then after that passed they felt fine. They will continue to feel fine for maybe one to three days during what is called the "walking ghost" phase, after which their bodies will start shutting down and they die a very messy and painful death.

  13. Re:Good to see Justice Prevails by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I bet you'd learn some interesting things about who does drugs once the casualties start to pile up.

    Indeed, there have been cops, judges, and prosecuters in the news in Illinois in the last year who were busted for cocaine. There are the mayor of that Canadian city and the ex-mayor of DC. Look at Rush Limbaugh.

    I look at "war on drugs" politicians like I look at right wing politicians who constantly decry homosexuality, how many of them have been kicked out of the closet?

    I don't know if the GP is an idiot, a troll, or a government shill. He advocates a painful death for drug users? I smoke pot and advocate HIS death. Alcohol, tobacco, and coffee are all addictive drugs. Marijuana is not.

    All of society's problems that are attributed to drugs are really problems that stem from the laws against them.

  14. it doesn't have to be painful and horrible... by schlachter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they have guns right? It's up to them how painful and horrible it is.
    it can be quick and painless if they like.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  15. Re: Good to see Justice Prevails by wo1verin3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Shhhhh, here have a bowl.

  16. They will, without a doubt, die... by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They will, without a doubt, die...

    ...eventually. Like everyone else on the planet.

    Or at least 93% of us, since 7% of all humans who have ever existed are alive today.

  17. Theiving Rule #341 by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 5, Funny

    If the loot starts to glow, just say "No"

  18. Re:tragic lack of prevention by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Informative
    The US does the same thing. When nuclear material gets shipped across the US it is in unmarked, locked trucks (although I am sure the shipment itself if liberaly marked). Of course, these are government shipments and have heavily armed escorts, in unmarked vehicles as well. You don't want to advertise the fact you are carrying radioactive cargo, both for security and NIMBY reasons. At least, this is what I have been told by my father's cousin, who did security for both nuclear shipments and nuclear sites for the DOE for a number of years (and was even a rangemaster for them at one time-yes, even the DOE has their own firing ranges)

    In this particular case, and especially given the amount of crime in Mexico, it does not surprise me that the truck would be unmarked. And it doesn't really matter if the cargo is marked: carjackers aren't going to rob you at gunpoint and beat you up then take the time to look at the cargo and see if it is worth stealing. They are just going to drive off. I am surprised that the hospital didn't at least hire a security service to escort the shipment; I would assume even(maybe even especially) in Mexico contractable security services are common. Maybe they just aren't trustworthy or capabale enough?

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  19. Serves them right by shentino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They stole a truck with no idea of the cargo's value or importance, and probably didn't even care if someone else could die if they stole it. It might have been medical supplies, vaccines, food rations, anything. And if they'd gotten involved in a high speed pursuit they could have killed someone just running away. Not to mention their willingness to threaten deadly force in the act, which would have given the driver grounds to use the same in self defense, even without the cargo being lethal.

    Which would itself only increase any self defense fatality in being justified if the thieves had gotten shot.

    They jacked a rig, had no concern for the value of human life, and it bit them in the ass. To be blunt, they had it coming.

    The fact that the authorities aren't even going to be responsible for punishing them means they have nobody to blame but themselves.

    1. Re:Serves them right by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're going to die a horrific, slow, and painful death. While I agree they brought it upon themselves, the picture of what they're likely to go through brings me no pleasure or satisfaction.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  20. If the material is mobilized in dust, by Marrow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    doesnt the danger remain? The total rads you get is not as important is not as important as how you get those rads. If you inhale a particle, your body cannot dispel it and it will mutate your genes and kill you with cancer. Even minimal radiation, if constantly directed at you by an internalized particle will still kill you.

  21. Re:hmmm... by jafac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Goiana was Cesium-137.

    There have been several incidents with Cobalt-60 sources, including one in 2010 in Dehli, India, and another in 2000, in Thailand. And in some cases, the radioactive material has ended up being recycled into new products; for example - incidents which actually happened: water-dishes for pets, and belt-buckles sold from discount websites. In these cases, the radioactivity was detected by random spot-checks. There are probably products out there that have incorporated recycled radioactive substances, which made it through spot-checks and are sitting in people's homes, making them sick - and there is no way for us to know.

    With regard to the cobalt 60 source: Wikipedia says it was 111 Tbq.
    "Example: a 60Co source with an activity of 2.8 GBq, which is equivalent to 60 g of pure 60Co, generates a dose of 1 mSv at one meter distance within one hour."

    A 1 Sv dose in 1 hour, is lethal.

    Extrapolating 111 TBq to 2.8 GBq; (111,000/2.8 = 39,642 ...); so multiply 1 mSv by that, and you get 39.6 Sv per hour.

    If they took it out of it's casing, they'd receive a lethal dose of radiation in less than 2 minutes. (depending on how close they stayed, and how long they stayed near it). Staying at least 400 cm away, would mitigate much of the beta particles, but not the gamma rays. Gamma rays are attenuated by the inverse square law, like any radiant energy. So distance is also your friend, but better still, an inch or so of lead.

    They would not start feeling symptoms, until an hour or two later. Dizzyness, headache, nausea, vomiting. Later - worse symptoms appear. It will probably take a few days for them to die, and they may seek medical treatment, which may save them, depending on how long they were in close proximity to the unshielded source.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  22. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    > better still, an inch or so of lead.

    depends. An old friend worked with medical radio-iodine, which emits high energy gammas. Part of her job was introducing new medical staff to the procedures. She would bring in the standard lead drapes and a Geiger counter and ask them all if they understood radiation precautions. They would of course say yes; she was just a little old lady (her own description), after all, and they were Doctors and Nurses.

    She'd hold up the Geiger counter near the patient who had taken the radio-iodine dose, and the Geiger counter would click away steadily.

    Then she'd put the lead drape in between patient and Geiger counter -- and the counter would roar.

    Then she'd smile and say:

    "... I know you all understand secondary radiation, and how gamma rays mostly go straight through tissue like you and me without interacting, but if they hit a really dense material like these lead drapes, they knock off a huge number of electrons that become charged particles that will interact far more readily with tissue, that's one of the reasons we call it ionizing radiation.

    "So who wants a drape?"