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Gut Microbes Linked to Autism-Like Symptoms in Mice
sciencehabit writes "Many physicians and parents report that their autistic children have unusually severe gastrointestinal problems, such as chronic constipation or diarrhea. These observations have led some researchers to speculate that an ailing gut contributes to the disorder in some cases, but scientific data has been lacking. Now, a provocative study claims that a probiotic treatment for gastrointestinal issues can reduce autismlike symptoms in mice and suggests that this treatment could work for humans, too."
Nonsense, it's obviously the vaccines! That chick that appeared on Playboy said so!
They may need to find some other disorder to explain their anti-social behaviour and make them feel special.
vitamin and supplement megacorps, how can we loose in this battle?
Two hyperprofitable concerns vying for the last few dollars of desperate parents.
I feel a shit coming on right now...
Reminds me of when illness/death comes from some bad source of food and impacts a swath of people. It's always interested me to know how quickly and by what process the source is discovered. I know that when I feel weird and suspect bad food it's a bit of a challenge to think absolutely thoroughly back through every last thing I ate over the past X hours/days. I wonder if there are many other common threads such as this that might yield clues if researchers had more complete knowledge of every person with a particular condition including things that people may never mention thinking it isn't relevant or important.
Does it want to watch Wapner? Can it count cards? We need to come up with a better way of testing stuff out than on mice.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Firstly, they discovered that the autistic-model mouse had very different gut biota and suffered from digestive tract issues. The new bacterium didn't establish itself, but it did perturb the gut bacteria community to be closer to control mice, and reduced digestive tract issues.
Secondly, they discovered that this perturbation reduced the autism-model symptoms in the autism-model mice quite markedly.
Thirdly, they discovered a gut metabolite that was elevated in untreated autism-model mice versus control mice or treated autism-model mice. However providing that metabolite to control mice only caused an increase in anxiety behaviours, and not the specific autistic ones. So it's not just the metabolite which is responsible for the behaviours.
I wonder if there's some underlying difference in the neurology of the autism-model mice such that the metabolite "sets off" the autism-model behaviours rather than anxiety. Or perhaps the metabolite causes anxiety in both communities but the anxiety only then "sets off" the autism-model behaviours in the autism-model mice.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Autism is genetic and is also influenced / is a function of the environment they are brought up in
Did you consider that it might not be passed on through DNA at all, and completely is a result of the environment, including the bacteria that your mum's side of the family have in their body? Or perhaps your DNA makes you more susceptible to these bacteria. I've been trying to figure out how exactly food affects my mood and behaviour for a while now..
which is totally what she said
Do you have a third parent that made you a dick?
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon
Did you consider that it might not be passed on through DNA at all, and completely is a result of the environment,
I would be inclined to say that you do not know a lot of people with a history of Autism in the family.
As I said, it is genetic, but is also environmental, It can be from a singular source, genetic or environmental. At the end of the day it is about how the brain is wired, Its psychological at is its foundation. Eat healthy and have a varied diet, keep away from the junk / fast and sugar filled foods, drink lots of water etc. Plus a good amount of contructive socialising is the best recommendation.
"Probiotic" is the little Shibboleth that makes this smell like woo.
I'm reminded of a whole mountain of crackpottery peddled by violently unethical shysters and borderline criminal pseudoscientists, for private profit.
Isn't this the same thing Wakefield was trying to prove before he committed research fraud and started the whole "vaccines cause autism" nonsense?
TLR
A man no more knows his destiny than a tea leaf knows the history of the East India Company
Yes you are a load of BS(Said so yourself) and many parents are not labeling it as a disease. Plus there are to many recovery stories out there to discount. Speaking of environment where are the 1 in 66 or 1 in 100 Amish or indigenus kids? This study is so far behind it is a joke. The parents recovering their kids from the "SYMPTOMS" that "OTHERS" label as Autism and ADHD have been using probiotics and other biomedical protocols and treatments for a long time to get gut and other issues under control so that their children can function and develop properly. My son would not be as far along as he is now without various biomed treatments. He would still be spinning like a top half the day flapping like a bird the other half, making no eye contact and eating one or 2 food choices. His apgar was 9 he hit all his milestones till age two, had good eye contact, huggable etc. Then poof within a matter of a few months he was gone into ASD PDD hell. Recovering children from ASD and ADHD is hard for sure but would be much easier and the "LABEL" would probably not even exist if the world did not have so many Assholes like you.
Speaking from experience there I see, I speak from the experience of someone how has Autism and know a lot of people with Autism. Sorry but I do not speak from experience in being a dick like you.
Ulcerative colitis is not an "irritable bowl(sic)" condition. It is an inflammatory bowel disease and precancerous condition which can kill if not treated properly. You have a right to do what you want with your own body but your anecdote needs countered.
If zis is vot zey call gut bacteria I'd hate to see bat bacteria
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Sure, that's what science "knows" about it so far, but the idea that gut bacteria are a deciding factor also fits perfectly along with your "genetic or environmental" concept. If all you have is a hammer (genetics, environmental observation) then everything looks like a nail. Maybe there's more to it than bacteria, but the chemicals that we put into our body very obviously can affect behaviour and mental state.
which is totally what she said
You are re-enforcing, what I said about it being environmental, It is good that you are making progress.
From my experience as I have said before in general, its genetic and or environmental, in your sons case it is evidently largely environmental, which are you addressing, so good for you.
The reason for my strong opinion, is that there is a history of Autism being blamed on whatever is convenient to blame it on, rather than addressing the real issues, which when you get down to it, is about supporting the person in question, so they are more able to interact with people on a normal level.
I am not the asshole, the real assholes are the parents who do not provide the required support to their kids and their answer to their kids behavioural issues is to keep them constantly duped up on ritalin and always look to blame it on something, rather than providing a healthier environment for their kids.
Maybe there's more to it than bacteria, but the chemicals that we put into our body very obviously can affect behaviour and mental state.
I agree with you on that, and I think that is what the study was showing. But the idea that gut bacteria is a cause of Autism as some may construe from the article is misleading.
I read this book 4 years ago that made the same connections. Recommended reading Dr. Hyman the Ultramind Solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CpHwZR6k20
Yes you are a load of BS(Said so yourself) and many parents are not labeling it as a disease. Plus there are to many recovery stories out there to discount. Speaking of environment where are the 1 in 66 or 1 in 100 Amish or indigenus kids? This study is so far behind it is a joke. The parents recovering their kids from the "SYMPTOMS" that "OTHERS" label as Autism and ADHD have been using probiotics and other biomedical protocols and treatments for a long time to get gut and other issues under control so that their children can function and develop properly. My son would not be as far along as he is now without various biomed treatments. He would still be spinning like a top half the day flapping like a bird the other half, making no eye contact and eating one or 2 food choices. His apgar was 9 he hit all his milestones till age two, had good eye contact, huggable etc. Then poof within a matter of a few months he was gone into ASD PDD hell.
Was he given mercury-laced vaccinations?
Color me skeptical. Chronic constipation/diarrhea in children - they're virtually the same thing, look up encopresis, seriously, do it - is a behavioral problem. The young child finds bowel movements unpleasant and avoids them, setting off a cycle of repeated unpleasant bowel movements and perpetuated avoidance that results in long term deliterious changes to the large instine, sphincter and gut microbiome. In short, I strongly suspect that the chain of causation goes the other way and this evidence is insufficient to establish otherwise at this juncture.
Of course gut microbe play a role. Some aggressive species are able to attack the gut's cells, which cause the leaky gut syndrome, where food proteins not completely digested can enter the bloodstream. The immune system will seek and destroy them, every day, on every meal. That can trigger allergies and autoimmune diseases.
Moreover proteins from milk and wheat contains sequences that are hard to break down, and that can activate morphine receptors in the brain. They are called caseomorphins and gliadomorphins. Some (but not all) autists have success in reducing their symptoms by adopting a diet without diary product and gluten, and it is suspected this is for that reason.
now i'm stealing the upholstery out of my furniture & building nests. winter must be coming,,, it's bugs after all, what a relief, i thought i was imagining...
free the innocent stem cells
Irritation causes inflammation. It might appear to be a disease if you can't figure out what is causing the irritation.
which is totally what she said
It not only addresses the role bacteria plays in autism, downs, etc
Daft question: If she has all the answers - why is there research still being done?
Maybe anti bacterial coating on toys or ingesting anti bacterial soap is a cause?
Environmental bacteria might not be the only factor, bit I think gut bacteria is indeed worth looking into. I remembered an article I read a few weeks ago about infants possibly suppressing their immune systems to let in "good" gut bacteria. Well, what if they also let in some not so good gut bacteria that leads to Autism? Doesn't Autism usually start to show during very early childhood?
At the end of the day it is about how the brain is wired, Its psychological at is its foundation.
If it's about how the brain is wired, then it's neurological, not psychological. Autism is generally classified as a neurological disorder.
A common symptom of autism is a lack of tact. So the rude delivery of their pronouncement might back up their claim to be autistic.
Clinical tests have proved that so-called "probiotic" additives, orally-administered "enzyme" treatments, and other such methods do not survive passage through the stomach. That is why they cannot make any specific health claims with respect to probiotics.
Commercials use weasel words and leave it to the consumer to leap to the conclusion that eating probiotics will help them.
That theory had been debunked for a while now. Only the flu vaccine still contains it and it is optional. Guess what? Autism still exists. Many studies have shown it to be a non-issue. As always, poison is in the dose. And don't eat any apples! They contain cyanide!
I know people who have made great strides is the symptoms of their autistic children by changing their diet and especially cutting out gluten. I thought there was already a known connection between the gut bacteria and autism. Oh, well. Sometimes it takes the mainstream a while to catch up on what some people are figuring out.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
I think the need to label it as coming from Vaccines/antibiotics/whatever also comes from the lack of control parents feel as well. Their child isn't developing "normally" and, if it is genetics, they would have been unable to have stopped or prevented this. If the problem is that vaccines (or some other completely unproven factor) is to blame then if they only did X or didn't do Y, their kid would be "normal" and they can "help" other parents by advocating for/against that thing.
There's a post going around social media (that I refuse to link to) called "How I gave my child autism" where the author blames herself for all of the things she did which "gave" her child autism from ultrasounds to vaccines to having a C-Section. The level of woo in that post is very high as the author seems determined to make Jenny McCarthy look scientific in nature.
In my case, we got the diagnosis on Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism on our oldest son after years of trying to figure out what was going on with him. As we read book after book on Asperger's Syndrome, I realized these books were describing me as well. I haven't been diagnosed mainly because 1) it costs money we can't afford to spend, and 2) my diagnosis won't help my son at all. Still, I'm convinced that I have Asperger's Syndrome and "gave" it to my son via genetics. (Yes, I went through a period of feeling guilty for this even though I knew intellectually that this wasn't something where there was blame to assign.)
On the subject of the gut bacteria issue, my guess is that discomfort from the gut bacteria problem exacerbates autism symptoms. Treating the gut bacteria issue doesn't cure autism, but does reduce discomfort which lets people with autism cope with the neurotypical world better. To neurotypicals, this looks like autism is being cured when it's just being "hidden" better.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
its genetic and or environmental ... there is a history of Autism being blamed on whatever is convenient to blame it on
Which is it? Is autism a real neurological condition, caused by genetic and/or environmental factors, or is it a BS diagnosis used to excuse poor parenting?
there is a history of Autism being blamed on whatever is convenient to blame it on, rather than addressing the real issues, which when you get down to it, is about supporting the person in question, so they are more able to interact with people on a normal level
So having autism per se isn't a real issue? It's not neurological? Or is it such a mild neurological condition that the only "real issue" is "supporting the person in question"?
Your autism is mild. It may cause you anxiety, social difficulties and whatnot, but so can a million other things. If the spectrum went no further than your level, it would be a diagnosis of questionable value, and it wouldn't be more troublesome, or more difficult to treat than anxiety, social difficulties (oops, disorder), etc., not associated with an autism diagnosis.
Don't talk about your situation as though it had much to do with severe autism though - the kind where many of its sufferers can't speak, may have compulsions so severe that they cause severe bodily harm to themselves, and can never be left unsupervised. Comparing your condition to that is like comparing feeling a little blue to being so depressed you're about to jump off a bridge. Stop acting as though your situation allows you to speak authoritatively about the entire autism spectrum.
I am not the asshole, the real assholes are the parents who do not provide the required support to their kids and their answer to their kids behavioural issues is to keep them constantly duped up on ritalin and always look to blame it on something, rather than providing a healthier environment for their kids.
Whose experience are you talking about? If it's yours, then unless you were seriously abused and neglected, stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming your parents for all your problems. If you're talking about others, I find it hard to take it seriously. "They're bad parents" is the oldest catch-all way to explain what you don't understand. With autism "blame the parents" has a particularly illustrious history, dating back to the old, damn science and pull a "psychological explanation" out of your ass, refrigerator mom theory.
their answer to their kids behavioural issues is to keep them constantly duped up on ritalin
Ritalin is generally used to treat ADHD, not autism. Risperidone is the most common pharmaceutical treatment, and also the only medication for which autism symptom treatment is an on-label use.
It would be nice if you used some name other than "Anonymous Coward" if you want to participate in protracted debates. If you're the OP though, and claim to also have an ADHD diagnosis, I agree that ADHD is a very questionable and certainly wildly overused diagnosis. Hence its "treatment" is often questionable. ADHD is not autism.
Actually, Autism is a developmental disorder. For example, my son with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism is ten years old. Socially, though, he's about six. (Coincidentally, the same age as his younger, neurotypical brother.) Intellectually, though, he's about 12 so teaching him can be very challenging. He'll grasp concepts quickly, get bored, and engage in socially inappropriate behaviors that someone years younger than he is would consider funny. (Thankfully, many of his peers understand about his Autism. Wish I could say the same about all of his teachers.)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
How did they make the mice autistic in the first place?
... about the gut, you always wonder if scientists are giving you the straight shit.
There was a documentary on autism (forgot it's name unfortunately) which was on the same lines as this study. One interesting point was the possible connection between antibiotics and autism; kill the good gut bacteria and you give hold to the bad one which basically produces a neurotoxin. Then again an autistic child supposedly got better when he was put on some heavy duty antibiotics (vancomycin I think), but unfortunately the bad bacteria had the ability to lie dormant so it would just keep coming back.
There is no evidence that irritation plays any part in Irritable Bowel Syndrome. And, by definition, there is no inflammation. Inflammatory Bowel Disease is a completely different entity and ignorant quacks like the OP explain why people still die from this treatable condition.
Considering that most of the cells "inside" the body (if you don't think of the human system as a torus)
are non-human and form an entire ecosystem that digests nutrients out of the substances we ingest,
it makes sense that good digestion is as fundamental to us as it is to a tree (which also relies on an exterior soil ecosystem).
This would also coincide with the apparent disease-like spread of autism thru the population.
The spread of autism also displays a flavor of inheritance and we aren't completely sure how gut bacteria spread
but it's likely that you get it from the people you spend the most time around.
Playboy: Entertainment for Men is a monthly magazine that's essentially The New Yorker with more pictures of naked women. Nintendo would never allow that sort of nudity on its platform. I just checked App World, and Playboy doesn't appear in the magazines section, nor does Playboy appear to have a Kindle edition. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
My daughter and I are aspies, and I see no reason for a "cure."
Other than perhaps widespread discrimination by interviewers against people who show symptoms during the interview?
It's not ignorant to think that food plays a role in bowel problems. There are many recognised conditions that are aggravated by certain foods.. so to think that simply taking a pill, but continuing to eat any old shit is a good way to treat it.. that's pretty a pretty ignorant way of looking at it.
Going on a low carbohydrate diet a few years ago (to lose weight) cleared up several other problems that I wouldn't have even related to diet at the time (such as my nose almost always being irritated and blocked).
I don't need to lose any weight right now, but after reading this thread, I'm thinking I'll go back to no carb again for a while and see how it affects me.
which is totally what she said
This comes at the same time that the European Food Safety Administration is prohibiting foods from using the words "probiotics" on their packaging. Because as they have rigorously studied and found there is no correlation between ingested foods and any discernible health benefits.
With nearly none of the claims for benefits being found in studies related to specific bacterium being repeatable, and additionally any "probiotic" supplements being taken appear in fecal testing, but when you stop taking the supplements they likewise disappear from fecal samples. Meaning you can't "seed" your gut bacteria with supplements.
I will remain being EXTREMELY skeptical that they can even remotely remove the effects of autism with a gut bacteria.
or if you are genetically disposed to it, DONT BREED.
"All I know is my gut says 'maybe'."
'Maybe' onto something here.
I have just calculated that in my head. Am I safe?
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I don't think I said that food does not play a role in some bowel problems. Perhaps your fad diet is affecting your reading comprehension. Arguing about a different point does not change the fact that pills and surgery stop people from dying from Inflammatory Bowel Disease such as Ulcerative Colitis. That is not the same as a rumbly tummy or attack of the skitters. But enjoy your diet.
One used to be able to make the "office harmony" argument against hiring people of the wrong skin color until the enactment of civil rights legislation. It's just harder to prove autism discrimination than racial discrimination in court.
Stuff can't be fixed when it's constantly being attacked.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
There is a strict diet called the GAPS Diet that both of these families followed and they began to see substantive changes within months, and ongoing improvements over a couple of years that have really allowed these kids to blossom.
This is not hearsay. I knew these kids before and I know them after, and they have improved dramatically.
its genetic and or environmental ... there is a history of Autism being blamed on whatever is convenient to blame it on
Which is it? Is autism a real neurological condition, caused by genetic and/or environmental factors, or is it a BS diagnosis used to excuse poor parenting?
It can be any of the above, the BS diagnosis is more prevalent with ADHD though, which is at the other end of the spectrum.
there is a history of Autism being blamed on whatever is convenient to blame it on, rather than addressing the real issues, which when you get down to it, is about supporting the person in question, so they are more able to interact with people on a normal level
So having autism per se isn't a real issue? It's not neurological? Or is it such a mild neurological condition that the only "real issue" is "supporting the person in question"?
Your autism is mild. It may cause you anxiety, social difficulties and whatnot, but so can a million other things. If the spectrum went no further than your level, it would be a diagnosis of questionable value, and it wouldn't be more troublesome, or more difficult to treat than anxiety, social difficulties (oops, disorder), etc., not associated with an autism diagnosis.
Don't talk about your situation as though it had much to do with severe autism though - the kind where many of its sufferers can't speak, may have compulsions so severe that they cause severe bodily harm to themselves, and can never be left unsupervised. Comparing your condition to that is like comparing feeling a little blue to being so depressed you're about to jump off a bridge. Stop acting as though your situation allows you to speak authoritatively about the entire autism spectrum.
Point taken.
I am not the asshole, the real assholes are the parents who do not provide the required support to their kids and their answer to their kids behavioural issues is to keep them constantly duped up on ritalin and always look to blame it on something, rather than providing a healthier environment for their kids.
Whose experience are you talking about? If it's yours, then unless you were seriously abused and neglected, stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming your parents for all your problems. If you're talking about others, I find it hard to take it seriously. "They're bad parents" is the oldest catch-all way to explain what you don't understand. With autism "blame the parents" has a particularly illustrious history, dating back to the old, damn science and pull a "psychological explanation" out of your ass, refrigerator mom theory.
Not talking about my experience, I do not blame my parents, There are many factors involved.
their answer to their kids behavioural issues is to keep them constantly duped up on ritalin
Ritalin is generally used to treat ADHD, not autism. Risperidone is the most common pharmaceutical treatment, and also the only medication for which autism symptom treatment is an on-label use.
It would be nice if you used some name other than "Anonymous Coward" if you want to participate in protracted debates. If you're the OP though, and claim to also have an ADHD diagnosis, I agree that ADHD is a very questionable and certainly wildly overused diagnosis. Hence its "treatment" is often questionable. ADHD is not autism.
Point taken, ADHD is at the other end of the spectrum, with respect to ASD
This is my first time posting to slash dot, if you want to contact me you can at bobthebuilderonslashdot@gmail.com
I have a tip for you then, you probably don't need to go 'no-carb'.
I stopped eating wheat and dairy for bowel problems. I replaced wheat with spelt (different grain) for bread, cookies, pasta etc. And not only did it for me also solve nose issues as well as the bowel issues, I also lost the 20kg weight I had gained since my early twenties.
I personally believe that in stead of no carb, people should go with the right carbs.
---
And what is damaging the gut bacteria in greater numbers? RoundUp Ready crops! Every time you eat GMO foods you are eating glyphosate (RoundUp) and that poisons the bacteria in your gut. The shikimate pathway that allows glyphosate to destroy plants also exists in the bacteria in your gut and the soil.
http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/glyphosate/glyphosate.html
Now Dr.s Seneff and Samsell are the first to say "correlation doesn't mean causation" but it is a great place to start looking. They have identified the ways in which a whole host of problems occur in humans when they consume glyphosate. Keep in mind their research focused on glyphosate which is part of RoundUp and other companies clone products. The other parts boost the effect so their study can be considered "best case" which is horrible on its own.
Anthony Samsel and Stephanie Seneff, "Glyphosate's Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases" Entropy 2013, 15(4), 1416-1463; doi:10.3390/e15041416
You can download the paper from her home page (no paywall): http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/
You might want to read Gut and Psychology Syndrome | GAPS Diet by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride. Some doctors in the UK and US are using this approach to treat autism with good results, but there no published studies that I'm aware of. The main focus points of the book are probiotics (like kefir) and eliminating artificial additives (e.g preservatives, colours & flavours), gluten and casein.
Friends with autistic children have noticed improvement by following the book, but as others have said autism is complex and not fully understood. We've noticed significant behavioural improvements, eczema cured and disappearnce of mystery ankle pains in our own non-autistic kids by eliminating presevatives, especially 282 found in many bread products. I wouldn't consider it scientifically proven but since the cost is minimal and risks (almost) non-existant, I would recommend trialing a GAPS diet.
Probiotics are now recommended by some doctors to restore gut health after a course of antibiotics.
Reminds me of a story from a friend about a cousin who was autistic, and due to gastrointestinal issues, carbohydrate processing was somewhat broken, leading to incomplete intermediary chemicals. One of which was something akin to a narcotic allegedly, which when discovered after years of testing regarding health issues, finally explained why the poor boy tore into bread loaves like a heroin fiend...