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Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft, Yahoo Form Alliance Against NSA

Posted by samzenpus on from the team-up dept.

mrspoonsi writes "BBC reports: Leading global technology firms have called for 'wide-scale changes' to US government surveillance. Eight firms, Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, AOL, Microsoft, LinkedIn, and Yahoo, have formed an alliance called Reform Government Surveillance group. The group has written a letter to the US President and Congress arguing that current surveillance practice 'undermines the freedom' of people. It comes after recent leaks detailed the extent of surveillance programs. 'We understand that governments have a duty to protect their citizens. But this summer's revelations highlighted the urgent need to reform government surveillance practices worldwide,' the group said in an open letter published on its website."

26 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah by GroeFaZ · · Score: 5, Informative

    And if that fails, at least give us a standardized interface to share our data, for saving costs.

    --
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
    1. Re:Yeah by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Surprisingly enough, I think this may be fairly serious. The big US Internet business are becoming increasingly scared that the spectre of NSA mass data-gathering is going to shut them out of markets outside the US.

    2. Re:Yeah by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      question: do these companies care about US or THEIR PROFITS (due to people turning away from their free online services)?

      I'll give you one guess which of those it is.

      in fact, those companies KNEW about the spying (they were asked by the gov, many many times, to reveal info about their users) but only NOW do they *act* like they care about us.

      just an excuse to try to make themselves look good and stand along the side of citizens in what they perceive as an alignment.

      but its all bullshit. those companies do not care one whit about our privacy. they DO care about a mass exodus away from their services to offshore ones and the fact that 'the cloud' is now seen as something to be avoided.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Yeah by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm amazed the foreign governments even consider ising an americal based OS (at any time really, but most certainly now) for anything that requires any level of security while also being internet connected. Really, the same goes for most software. It just seems like asking to be pwned.

    4. Re:Yeah by robinsonne · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course they care about profits! In this instance though, it might just work to our advantage. These are companies with a LOT of money, and in politics money is far more important than than anything else. These companies actually have the money and clout to make anything at all change.

      You really think the voters have a chance to make their voices heard?

    5. Re:Yeah by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      question: do these companies care about US or THEIR PROFITS (due to people turning away from their free online services)?

      Of course they are primarily concerned about their profits (especially about the potential loss of business from non-US customers, who under current NSA doctrine apparently have no right to privacy at all). But in this case, the companies are right on the merits. Their interests and the interests of the general public are, on this particular issue, aligned.

      Civil liberties battles are hard enough under the best of circumstances. You take your allies where you can find them.

    6. Re:Yeah by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Informative

      no, I won't 'take my allies where I can find them'. they can too easily shift back to being against me. they are NOT my alies, just enemies of my enemy. haven't you been paying attention the last, say, 20 years or so?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    7. Re:Yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Linux is always an alternative.

    8. Re:Yeah by bmajik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think Snowden changed the game on this

      Before the Snowden revelation, it wasn't widely accepted that the government was reading everything anybody ever wrote. For _one_ of these companies to come forward to complain was like the prisoners dilemma. There was no guarantee that other players would follow suit, so for GOOG to come out and say "The NSA is spying on you and we can't stop them" puts GOOG at a competitive disadvantage. Furthermore, all of this stuff was secret; not to be disclosed publicly, etc. Companies weren't sure how much teeth there were in those rules, so were further hesitant to talk much about it.

      Post Snowden, its all different. Now its an open secret that this happens, and it happens to everyone. Now there's no posturing or competitive advantage to be exploited; everyone is in the same boat. This is a populist issue and once one company made noise about sticking it to the NSA, the rest were going to have to follow.

      The other thing that has changed is that Snowden and Lavabit have both gone public. The public has spoken. We now have proof of what kind of stuff the Feds will do and how far they'll go to keep it quiet. The people who leaked this stuff survived.

      The government might be able to sue Yahoo or Lavabit or any of them individually, but it cannot sue the entire tech industry.. not right now.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  2. It's like the hyenas criticising the lions by rizole · · Score: 5, Insightful

    current surveillance practice 'undermines the freedom' of people.

    1. Re:It's like the hyenas criticising the lions by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      current surveillance practice 'undermines the freedom' of people.

      I can choose not to use Google (yes, I can even choose to disable their trackers on websites, like, say Slashdot). I can't choose not to have the NSA snoop on email. So it's more like the merchants criticizing the taxmen. One will happily take your freedoms if you give it to them, the other will take your freedoms willing or not.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  3. "undermines the freedom" of people by mrspoonsi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They really mean "undermines our companies bottom line".

    Google is happy to collect all the information it can get its hands on (and get away with), I am sure the others are equally as complicit.

    1. Re:"undermines the freedom" of people by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a big difference between volunteering your information and having it scooped up by a government agency that has already shown that it will use the information to blackmail you.

  4. Re:congrats guys and gals by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    thank you for releasing a press statement claiming that you are standing up, in a way that mollifies those concerned about their privacy, while lacking any substantive evidence of resistance

    American corporations, and these 5, in particular, have shown a history of not minding deceitful marketing in the slightest. I feel no compelling reason to trust them.

  5. Damage Control Mode - ON. Well, fuck 'em all by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is nothing but a PR stunt by these firms to save face, since they all happily collaborated with NSA's dirty practices in exchange of dough and political favors.

    I say fuck 'em all!!

    1. Re:Damage Control Mode - ON. Well, fuck 'em all by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Policy-wise, nothing really gets done in the US without the implicit consent of corporate power. This applies even to things like spying. The government is run by the wealthy elite and therefore the policies are designed to favor their interests. Where those interests may conflict, it is usually the entity with the greater influence or better connections that gets their way.

      This latter point is where we stand with regard to warrantless domestic surveillance of US citizens by the NSA. The eight companies that have "allied" against this practice, albeit influential as a group, have been for the most part self-interested competitors, and many of them make no attempt to hide the fact that they run a business model that is predicated upon mining personal data from its users in order to sell advertising (Google and Facebook being the most notable examples).

      However, that is not to say that they actively or "happily" collaborated with the NSA. The legal requirements, as far as we have been apprised of them, force their cooperation. It is not logical to assume that just because their business involves exploiting their users, that they would not object to NSA surveillance, because the latter does have a deleterious effect on the former. If users suddenly feel paranoid because they think these companies are (willingly or unwillingly) handing over their personal information to the government, then they would be more reluctant to share that data by posting it online. The fear of surveillance brings about increased awareness of the need for protecting one's privacy, which of course is NOT what these companies want. That is the essential argument behind their opposition.

      In any case, these companies are merely the repositories for end-user information. The real culprits here, the ones who ARE happily handing over information to the government, are the telecommunications companies, notably AT&T. They are the ones who let the NSA install listening devices on their networks. And you will note that these companies have NOT banded together to protest this illegal surveillance program. They don't see any need to, because they have too much power (since the entire internet is reliant on them) and, unlike Google and Facebook, they have no incentive to protect the data that flows through their networks. If a subscriber doesn't want to share personal information about themselves to a social network, they can opt out of doing so, and the result is a loss of valuable data for the company that operates that network. But it is MUCH harder to completely forgo the internet entirely, which is what you would have to do in order to avoid having AT&T send your data to the NSA. And AT&T doesn't make their money off selling your personal information to advertisers. They make it off your basic need for connectivity.

  6. Re:congrats guys and gals by Virtucon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Their statement should read "You're fucking up our business model and shareholder equity, stop copying us!"

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  7. PR stunt by hochl · · Score: 4, Informative

    They will encrypt all their traffic and hard drives but leave open the surveillance API on their running servers to access the data. Or they will share the encryption keys. "All data will be encrypted to protect customers" is nothing more but a PR stunt!

  8. But nothing, corporations under your control by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Informative

    Where is the alliance to prevent Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft, and Yahoo (and Amazon) from invading our privacy...

    That's in your power. Don't use them, or use them in ways you know they can't track you (disable flash/cookies etc).

    It's still a VASTLY better situation than the government, which you cannot opt out of. You cannot realistically not use a phone; you cannot realistically connect to the internet at all and not be at risk of the NSA breaking into your system unwanted.

    At least what companies DO is transparent. Anyone can see what the websites are sending/receiving, and you know when you are visiting or making use of them. The same is never true of the government.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  9. i say: put your money where your mouth is. by ClassicASP · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We probably won't hear a word about these folks in public TV due to well orchestrated govt control, which makes it less obvious to the public. I say: all seven of these should stand together united with the same message and video on their homepages. That'll force their way into public television networks.

  10. That's our job by careysb · · Score: 5, Informative

    How dare you collect and analyze personal data on our clients! That's our job!

  11. Re:congrats guys and gals by tsa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Indeed, they want the NSA to just buy the information it needs from them.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  12. Re:congrats guys and gals by Desler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All they are doing is try to protect themselves and their businesses. They could give a shit less about the people being spied on. If they had really cared they would have done this years ago not simply when the egg splatted on their faces.

  13. Re:congrats guys and gals by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    American corporations, and these 5, in particular, have shown a history of not minding deceitful marketing in the slightest. I feel no compelling reason to trust them.

    As well you shouldn't. But don't look a gift horse in the mouth. This is capitalism at work... our government doing the wrong thing has hurt their bottom line, so they are using their financial and political muscle to get change. This is a good thing. I, like you, doubt they are acting out of pure good will, but I'll take what I can get.

    2ndly, Google having my personal data is a bad thing, I agree... but it's orders of magnitude less dangerous than the government having that same data. At most, Google can annoy me with spam, hurt my credit rating, or use psychology to trick me into buying something I otherwise wouldn't have. The government on the other hand can imprison me, force me to implicate friends, blackmail me, or even torture and kill me. Lets work on the securing the serial killer in the room before we worry about the shady used car salesman.

  14. Re:congrats guys and gals by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The NSA does buy it from them.

    Now they are possibly just using the outrage to negotiate a higher price.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  15. Re:congrats guys and gals by Branciforte · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work at Google.

    Before anything was reported by Snowden, plans were already in place to protect user data. It started with the switch to HTTPS, continued with us encrypting user data on disk, and we were beginning to encrypt data that was transferred between datacenters. The revelation that the NSA was tapping into undersea cables only accelerated the timeline.