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NSA Has No Clue As To Scope of Snowden's Data Trove
krakman writes "According to a NY Times article, a 6-month internal investigation has not been able to define the actual files that Edward Snowden had copied. There is a suspicion that not all the documents have been leaked to newspapers, and a senior NSA official (Rick Ledgett), who is heading the security agency's task force examining Mr. Snowden's leak, has said on the record that he would consider recommending amnesty for Mr. Snowden in exchange for those unleaked documents. 'They've spent hundreds and hundreds of man-hours trying to reconstruct everything he has gotten, and they still don't know all of what he took,' a senior administration official said. 'I know that seems crazy, but everything with this is crazy.' That Mr. Snowden was so expertly able to exploit blind spots in the systems of America's most secretive spy agency illustrates how far computer security still lagged years after President Obama ordered standards tightened after the WikiLeaks revelations of 2010."
There is a suspicion that not all the documents have been leaked to newspapers, and a senior NSA official (Rick Ledgett), who is heading the security agency's task force examining Mr. Snowden's leak, has said on the record that he would consider recommending amnesty for Mr. Snowden in exchange for those unleaked documents.
What Snowden has leaked is stuff that many people suspected but could not prove. A lot of it are things we know that the technology existed for, and an unscrupulous Spy Agency (like the NSA) might be likely to attempt.
But what this new disclosure says to me is that there might be things that go WAY beyond what we have learned or more accurately, confirmed, so far. Things that really do stretch way into the clearly unacceptable in ways that the disclosures thus far pale in comparison.
Why else go public and suggest "amnesty"? Which, I don't think Snowdon would consider at this point, he would certainly risk ending up in a "accident" in a few years, something he is quite at risk from now.
If as "they" say they think he has't given up everything he had to the News Media, we will never see it because it's in Russian hands. Snowden isn't that stupid.
And by the way, I'll bet Julian Assage is feeling pretty jealous right now, what with the spot-light off of Him... Assage is a lime light whore, an ego the size of a blimp, he's got to be pacing back and forth in that small room of his, plotting a "come-back".
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Those unleaked documents may be all that's keeping him alive. No sane being would ever give up that insurance policy in his situation.
So we're to understand the NSA still more secrets that they don't want anyone to know, so much so they would consider forgiving someone they consider has committed treason?
That was about the only thing that could have made me feel even more concerned than the last year of news stories about how the NSA is basically Santa Claus.
I know its hopeful thinking, but if the NSA was a person, they would know how it feels when you don't know what someone knows about you.
I immigrated to US in 1998 and to honest, and until recently, I was under impression that US was the best county on the entire globe. Period.
Guns, jobs, "Freedom", country had real drive. That is how I saw it for last 30 years.
It me a while to sink in that it shit is going down a drain.
Iraq and Afghanistan wars didn't make me change my opinion.
Economic Meltdown in 2008, and the fact that no one went to jail and CEO's got big ass bonuses, didn't make me change my opinion.
Fucked-up Health Insurance didn't......
Guess what changed my opinion ? NSA.
Last month, the NSA said maybe 50,000 to 200,000 documents.
Last night, 60 Minutes said it was 1.7 million documents
Today it's "we may never know"
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
It's worse than that.
They're afraid that the world will soon learn some inconvenient truths: (a) that Oswald in fact acted alone in assassinating Kennedy, (b) that the crashed object at Roswell was in fact a high-altitude weather balloon, (c) that the Rosenberg's were in fact Soviet spies, (d) that the moon landings in fact happened and were not staged in a Houston hangar, and (e) that every ounce of the gold in Ft. Knox is in fact sitting exactly where it should be.
And then the American public might start asking questions related to ACTUAL government conspiracies.
The horror...
He can't possibly have revealed more data from the NSA than what the NSA actually had.
Okay, that's probably a huge upper bound, but it is an upper bound.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The US mil has had a long history with computer databases going back to the 1960's with the Community On-line Intelligence System effort.
The CIA, FBI and MI5,6 all knew what a motivated cleared individual could do with a "photocopier", "camera" and more trusted clearance level to a paper file system.
Would digital files be that just left to be that easy?
East Germany showed what a levels where needed to protect aspects of running spies or handling covert materials - a split of data making any one "walk out" very limited in what was lost.
We are now to believe 'the' US agency at the centre of US data integrity, protection and world wide data penetration could not rewind its own networks logs?
Snowden was CIA, was passed onto a contractor with his CIA work 'cleaned' at some point by someone and then onto the NSA.
Snowden would have had direct id/code/physical location contact with how many people who could have been allowed to look into files from "that" "site" in the USA?
What are the options? The NSA structure is now (~past 10 years) so 'sharing', 'out sourced', 'cloud based' and privatised that any staff "member" can look down over many projects without 'question' or any useful 'logging'?
That an admin can be so 'skilled' to cover/find/alter all digital tracking logs, using digital methods that none in the NSA, FBI, CIA, MI6/5, GCHQ ever thought about?
With all the Soviet/Russia spy hunts wrt staff, past whistleblowers over ~30 years, the digital file structures where 'outsourced' to such an extent that all security protections are now lost?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I find it very difficult to believe that they don't have audit logs that show exactly when and where he logged on, and what data he accessed. On the other hand, I find it easy to believe that while they HAVE the audit logs, the mandated Microsoft tools make it impractical to search for the pertinent data.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
A phone call from BHO to Mr. Putin
I've heard of browser helper objects phoning home, but never phoning heads of state.
I wonder if this BHO can make my experience at healthcare.gov any more pleasant?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The problem the NSA's having is likely the same one most large businesses have when it comes to IT: the management involved has absolutely no clue about what's going on with their computer systems, and they won't believe what the technical people who do know what's going on are telling them because it disagrees with what that management thinks should be going on. End result, the steps that are taken don't fix any of the security problems and the steps that would fix the problems are vetoed. And it'll be "lather, rinse, repeat" until management starts being fired (not allowed to resign, fired for incompetence) and losing their cushy termination benefits packages because they failed to listen.
You can be dismissive of everything else, but the collapse of building 7 was way too shady in my opinion. Add to that the fact that the news of its collapse were reported 20 minutes prior to it actually happening.
Economic Meltdown in 2008, and the fact that no one went to jail and CEO's got big ass bonuses
Bernie Madoff made off with billions and as a reward the American taxpayers gave him 150 years of free room and board, should he live that long.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Could have left the headline at that.
So we as good little citizens are supposed to help the NSA "find a better way" to "connect all the dots," but they have no idea what to do even when all the "dots" are in their physical possession?
Maybe if they spent more time monitoring and logging their own systems everyone would be better off.
Part of the value of ubiquitous surveilance is character assassination, and a key part of that vulnerability is in our own oversimplified thinking. Yes, Assange is a limelight whore, but perhaps he's making the best use of that failing. Nelson Mandela was at one time a terrorist expousing violence, could have a quick temper and had a "colourful" personal life. Reagan and Thatcher painted him as a terrorist for years before the saint image became dominant - but BOTH these images are oversimplifications. We MUST work on this "oversimplification" vulnerability in ourselves and those around us even if it seems an impossible task.
Got a cite on that?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
NSA has nothing to worry about if it has done nothing wrong.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
The U.S. government has demonstrated itself to be completely untrustworthy. The best he could hope for would be to have his lawyers arguing the validity of his amnesty in front of secret courts while he's tortured in a black site somewhere.
If only the NSA had the resources and some sort of process by which they could have kept track of Snowden, like his phone, email, computer and internet usage. Oh wait...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Nope, because he's completely ignorant of the logistics behind what he's proposing. I mean c'mon, all it took was one man to blow the top off the NSA, yet teams of trained demolitionists can rig an occupied building (or three) for collapse without raising a single eyebrow? And working in conjunction with all manner of news organizations to suss out a story they can pitch? Yet nobody, out of the thousands that would be involved, managed to find their spine and come forward?
Get these people some stronger meds before they hurt someone.
The article says: Mr. Snowden has said he would return to the United States if he was offered amnesty, but it is unclear whether Mr. Obama â" who would most likely have to make such a decision â" would make such an offer.
Even if the offer is ever made, Snowden would have to be a complete fool to accept it. He may never be prosecuted for the data leak; however the government will be free to legally fry him for any other crime that he may be framed for. Or, if that is not desirable, he may become another victim of criminals, who would never be found.
China and Russia would not touch the files as the person was CIA, then a contractor and then NSA with no background to Russia/China.
Russia would have been tempted if the plan was to stay in US gov for years and all docs could be considered over time.
Any of the bulk actionable documents could be a set trap, internal US intel junk for US political budget consumption, or lost internal bait for KGB/FSB spies...
Russia is not the Soviet Union and won't fall for such an 'easy' document trick again and again.....
Better to charm the press with optics of travel, a job, sit back and sees what plays out.
China knows everything crypto from the US is a trap and is working its way around all the US telco tech as fast as it can in its own way.
No need for unknown 'document' help, just time, skills and manufacturing prowess.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
That's because it was all accomplished by Seal Team Seven, the deep deep super secret dudes.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
When you're working with an entity at the size and capability of the United States, that will likely not happen.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
He acts only against the US
Strange how revealing the government's criminal activities to the very people it's supposed to be working for is acting against the US. The US is supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave, and was founded on a distrust of government. How is revealing the fact that the government violated the constitution and the principles the US was founded on acting against the US? I feel that I, as a citizen of the US, have a right to know.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide!
Twinstiq, game news
Ok look, I'm with you on the fact that Snowden didn't release any new info, at best it confirmed and gave operational details to stuff that was known publicly since 2006...
Snowden isn't a free man. Whoever has been pulling his strings has got him on a tight leash.
Why doesn't he have a blog? Why haven't we seen or heard of him around town in Russia? Why is he always wearing the same light grey shirt?
He's in trouble...he got himself in it, either by doing something to get blackmailed (downloading kiddie pr0n from a scammer) or deluded himself into thinking he was some kind of 'Deep Throat' figure.
Other questions:
Why didn't Snowden use Wikileaks?
Why didn't Glenn Greenwald release Snowden's name?
Thank you Dave Raggett
We have no idea what a random person working for a contractor with access to our top-secret systems managed to steal before he went on the run...
but we have to know your shoe-size, what toilet-paper you use, and what kind of porn turns you on.
A well-prioritised spying agency, there.
I don't mean to suggest that any of the conspiracy theories are accurate, but the BBC did, in fact, report WTC 7's collapse before it happened. They've basically admitted as much:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/03/part_of_the_conspiracy_2.html
See also: https://archive.org/details/bbc200109111654-1736
The BBC erroneously reported the collapse at 4:53 p.m., as acknowledged in the above-linked article. The actual collapse occurred at 5:20 p.m., as confirmed by FEMA: http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf
At the time of the BBC's report, however, WTC 7 had been on fire for some time, and was already in danger of imminent collapse, so I don't find it too hard to believe that they simply made an honest mistake in the midst of all the confusion.
Why do you hate America? You should be sent to gitmo and waterboarded.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Here you go
"There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
Incompetence at a government agency that routinely classifies their fuck-ups to avoid repercussions? I'm shocked!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Cowardice? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Snowden is a hero. You are a brain-dead bootlicking jackass.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Then I'm sure that you'd prefer to deal with Russia and China, where crime and corruption is so deep that the US can't match. Freedom is measured in connections and money to a much higher degree than you could ascribe to the US.
In the US, the average citizen enjoys more freedom than could ever be had by citizens of countries run by Snowden's new (and fair-weather) friends.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
what part of my comment is a half-truth?
is it the article from **2006** that says "NSA has massive database of American's phone calls" & makes public much of what Snowden released (minus the operational details like the name 'Prism')
I posed questions...are you saying those questions are half-truths somehow?
I think YOUR comment is the fucking 'Gish Gallop'...all you did was link to some wiki...you didn't **engage with the topic** and point out why...because you can't, because you're 'Gish Galloping' this topic
Thank you Dave Raggett
for the record, Julian Assange was able to have **his own television show** in Russia
Snowden can't even change his fucking shirt...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Then why is it that the unauthorized disclosures now start to include targets that are legitimate for the NSA to pursue? Last time I checked, the NSA is allowed to pursue foreign targets without any need to disclose to the public.
Once he switched his allegiances from the US to Russia, he's done more harm to the US in general than any good that could have been realized. Never mind that he has foregone any opportunity to redeem himself by releasing anything damaging to Russia or China in the process.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Unfortunately for you, I like America. The only thing that Snowden should be doing in Russia or China is collecting intelligence on their governments, not trashing our own.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
If "Well, we're not as bad as the other guys!" is all you have, I'd say something is very, very wrong. Being punched in the face may not be as bad as having your arm chopped off, but that doesn't mean being punched in the face is a good thing. More generally, X being better than Y does not mean X is good.
Your comment didn't even address anything I said.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
So you're saying that Snowden is a disinformation agent? Right, got it.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
That's the propaganda which is rather amusing coming from a place with a Congress and Senate full of attention whores, let alone the high profile CEOs or the entire fucking entertainment industry. Even Assange looks humble compared with any one of those.
Also even if all the wild claims are true he doesn't come close to being compared with Polanski. Polanski does not need to hide in an Embassy toilet even though he's been wanted for decades for the violent rape of a child.
It's all about "might makes right" and going after some guy that publicly embarrassed Hillary Clinton. It's been dragging on for so long that people forget that it's such a petty revenge thing resulting in making unreasonable demands on two other countries to inconvenience an embarrassment.
While I disagree that Russia/China wouldn't take the documents if they could, whether they believed them or not, I would say that the most important information Snowden can provide is how weak the e-security is at the NSA. How he got access, rather than what he got access to.
We only know of Snowden because he chose to go public. Any competent US contractor would be using their access, legal or not, to spy on its rivals, on Congressional vote intentions, on bids, etc. And it seems unlikely, given how much Snowden had access to (for example, details on how Australia bugged the phones of East Timor politicians during negotiations over oil/gas deals), China and Russia would be crazy not to, for example, pose as US intelligence contractors to hire insiders at other contractors to illicitly gather information (or provide clearances) for them.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Why would a conspirator prime the BBC to release information about the damage they were going to do?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
It's not the capability of the USA here, it's the capability of some clowns that thought it was a good idea to get a Hollywood set designer in to do an operations centre. It's not Tom Clancy calling the shots here - reality is closer to Conrad's "The Secret Agent" where deluded and petty figures are just taking advantage of anything they can.
You are getting them mixed up with the military. They are toy soldiers and a network of Horse Judges that got the job because of who they knew, and a lot of it seems to be pointless busywork designed to justify a flow of money.
If you ignore the scaremongering of how much Snowden "took" (it was still there after he "took" it, he didn't "take" anything -- a copy was made) -- If you dismiss the spin about Snowden, you'll realize that the NSA is admitting that they're letting the Chinese, Russian, Turkish, etc. spies get access to all of the information they've collected on the world and American citizens. If you can't even trace what was accessed, then you certainly can't prevent access. Snowden was a contractor, he's not amazing, any average fearless security researcher would have a field day with the NSA. They use MS Windows, FFS, ever since they ported Omnivore from UNIX to MS platforms to create Carnivore (away from Unix? Huh, yay MS license fee pork!) It's not amazing that Snowden got access. Hell, even if they use Linux there's zero day exploits for every known OS on the black market. Any state sponsored spy has even more access than Snowden dreamed of.
Congratulation should be awarded the National Security Agency for becoming the biggest threat to National Security the world has ever known. In becoming the greatest single point of failure, and failing, it is now their duty to extinguish themselves. In programming we call a system capable of completely internally representing and emitting copy of itself a Quine. In cybernetics I call this being alive. In government we call this SNAFU. Indeed the very nation's existence is owed to the cyclic redundancy error called revolution. Fortunately the founding fathers foresaw such eventuality and gave their people the ability to break the cycle of deadly rebirth without violence: To call an emergency session of congress and hold a vote of no confidence therein.
The whitehouse could have been a relief valve, but have come out in favor of letting the NSA run amok -- Hard choices indeed. Would you come out against the NSA who refuses to stand down, and thus prove the government is illegitimate, or would you align yourself with them and maintain the despotic peace a little while longer -- give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety? The longer the pressure builds, the bigger the collateral damage will become. The tech giants are injured yet oddly not nearly as reactive as you'd expect, by the time they decide to really push back it'll be too late, they'll have less power than the military industrial complex. If they realize the table is turning the big guys will all begin buying up defense related tech to try and ensure their future. It's almost as if the government wants the economy to be destroyed so that the people face bankruptcy, repossessions, and foreclosures and the corporations lose the money they use to maintain firm grips on the lobbyists. Afterwards they could simply blame those who spake out against them for holding different "destructive" economic ideals and put them in concentration camps until the scared public is cowed and accepts things the way it's going to be whether we the people like it or not. You could just avoid the internment altogether and just let the homeless remain effectively neutered. Why, if I didn't know better, I'd say everything was going according to plan.
In the US, the average citizen enjoys more freedom than could ever be had by citizens of countries run by Snowden's new (and fair-weather) friends.
You mean countries where journalists who are embarrassing to the government are arrested or "disappeared"? Where defectors and whistle-blowers are poisoned? Where the family of any perceived opponent of government risks being harassed by loyal government men (with and without authorisation)? Countries that do what you want the US to do over the Snowden affair.
You're remarking on the difference between freedom in the US and that in Russia/China, while arguing without a shred of irony for the US to invoke precisely the same "strong-man" tactics of Russia/China which destroys freedom. You somehow fail to see that you are an enemy of the People of the United States.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
They wouldn't. And didn't. Read my comment again--I began and ended it by dismissing the conspiracy theory. I was simply pointing out, in response to the prior poster (who requested a cite), that the BBC did, in fact, jump the gun.
Seen a blacksmith on TV? That should show you that hot steel is not as strong as cold steel.
Now you can stop worrying about that and focus on the real conspiracies that are being uncovered. There's plenty so no need to be greedy and make them up.
You've lost track that at some point the NSA changed from what you described to the sort of place where somebody could get a Hollywood set designer in to do an ops room. That and the need for the bosses to have anything right now with no hoops to jump through does seem to have produced a situation where the NSA is publicly stating that they do not have a clue what Snowdon has. They could be lying but if they are it's a lie that damages their reputation enough that it puts the jobs of the people saying it in far greater peril than saying nothing. That makes me think they are being honest this time and doing some "damage control" before someone with power over their employment finds out the hard way and takes it out on their hides.
He never switched allegiances. He's still a US citizen, not a Russian. If the US government stopped persecuting him, there's no indication he would never come back, though I wouldn't think he would, as he'd fear a change of mind. The US abandoned him. The government acted illegally, and he worked for the people of the US in exposing it. He's more loyal to the US than the US government is.
Learn to love Alaska
Notes on access changes would have been passed by real staff with Russian connections, been considered by Russia as a trap or just ongoing upgrades.
Russia mostly seems to like US gov workers in place and moving up in their respective areas with 'problems' that Russia understands. A contractor might be all over interesting projects and then in the private sector again with little in the way of really useful product and way too much info on Russian 'methods' in the USA.
Cleared Australian staff would have been all over the USA as part of their cleared working life and more able to speak with cleared US staff more freely than their own Australian govs staff.
Thats a huge issue for Canada, UK, NZ, Australia long term to ponder - everything flows back the US, extra countries the USA trusts, contractors and others.
Sections of the Australian armed services did have a moment of clarity on that issue after WW2 but that wisdom seems to have been lost in rush to hand everything over to the US/UK.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
He won't get an accident as long as they want him alive and well more than they want him gone. As far as we know, there's a group of three unknown people that together can "set free" all the data he has stolen. As long as the USA doesn't want him to reveal all that data, he's safe from them killing him. They may want to abduct him back to the USA, but they know they can't kill him because then all hell will break loose.
The Soviet Union probably gets something in return for his visa, but he won't be giving them the crown jewels all at once. They won't tolerate him there once he's of no use to them any more, so whatever the deal is, they're not getting a lot of secrets out of him. For all we know, they might just keep him around to piss off the USA and that alone is of enough value to them.
The "amnesty" sounds like a trap. What possible gain could the USA have to keep him free/alive once the bear is back in the cage? He's a liability just for knowing what he stole, so the only way to contain that is to contain him.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
The only sort of crime committed by the rich that yields consequences.
May be he's a patriot to the America it claims to be rather than the America it has been shown to be.
Could it be they are now going to (as often suggested on here) deliberately leak something pretty serious (possibly about some past actual harm, with a nicely polished backstory) and attribute it to Snowden? Effectively, by saying "we don't know what he's got" , it leaves the door open for them to attribute *anything they like* to him.
All your ghosts are just false positives.
Why are foreign adversaries a justification for domestic policy? We outspend the world's militaries, what exactly should we be afraid of?
The American people are not and should not be the legitimate target for the State intelligence apparatus. If you have done something against the interests of the State, it would be a matter for our police. If you have not done something against the interests of the State, if you are merely thinking about doing that, or even taking steps towards doing so, you have not yet in actual fact committed that crime. The choice is fundamentally whether to permit people to commit crime, or to treat everyone as if they were a criminal. We can't guarantee that we can catch criminals after the fact, and it's hardly possible to keep people from committing criminal acts in jail, let alone in the greater society. This suggests that a police state is not a good value proposition: trying to stop people before they commit crimes is flawed, in principle and in practice.
But we are not speaking of common crimes, we are speaking of crimes against the State, and correspondingly the bodies we have endowed with the right to pursue those who have committed such malefactions. The NSA has become not only the foremost intelligence body of the US Military, but as such it is undeniably the most effective intelligence body that the world has ever seen. It is wrong for the police to pursue men who have not committed criminal acts, but it is far more wrong to be treated as an enemy of the State, and investigated as such, without an inarguably just cause, or existential necessity. Not only does this rule out mass surveillence entirely, but it is difficult to describe how few external existential threats these United States face. So far the internal police appear to be adequate to the task of containing whatever terrorist uprising we may be in danger of.
The parent poster is not being facetious. The American People, and our Allies, are being targetted by the Signals Intelligence branch of the United States Government. There are quite excellent reasons this is forbidden, which have nothing in particular to do with our laws, and a plenitude of historical examples which bear this point out. Mass surveillance of the American public is nothing less than enormitous treason.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
IF WL reports on government malfeasance, they're being anti-USA.
IF WL reports on nongovernmental malfeasance, they're FAIL.
You could, in fact, say that the US government betrayed him. In fact, it did so twice. First, when it betrayed all of us, by acting against out interests as a populace and constitutionally mandated rights as citizens. Then, when Snowden saw the depth of the government's betrayal and tried to bring it to light, they betrayed him again (personally, but in a way with consequences for us all) by abandoning all those promises about whistleblowers and choosing to persecute and vilify him instead.
Personally, I doubt he actually has gone over to the Russians. Nationalism is a strong drive, and you don't get to work at the NSA and have a clearance unless you've got a good bit of it. On the other hand, somebody who was as strongly pro-US-government as you seem to be, but a little less blind and righteous about it, may have felt the depth of those betrayals deeper than I would. If it turns out he has gone over, I'm certainly not going to judge him for that. The USA has amply demonstrated it does not deserve his service or support, first in the actions of the NSA, then in the actions of the Obama government in general, and finally in the actions of the populace at large (who have continued apathetically doing nothing of consequence while the whole scandal unfolds, rather than stand up for somebody willing to take such a risk for the sake of freedom).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
The US government has done so much more to damage the US than Snowden has that Snowden's actions aren't even worth talking about in that regard.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
I'm an American and I don't feel there is anything wrong with what the NSA is doing and don't feel it has done anything to remove my freedoms.
Then perhaps you should read the constitution. Nowhere in the constitution does it give the government the power to do this, and the fourth amendment doesn't allow for general warrants or any other such thing. The constitution is a whitelist of things the government can do, not a blacklist of things it can't.
I think you should also study some history. There was never a government that didn't abuse its powers. Japanese citizens felt the wrath of the US government when they were put in internment camps. Blacks, women, and various minorities all knew what it felt like to have one's rights violated. The US government can and already has shown that it will abuse its powers, and the US was founded on a distrust of government, so why would you ever trust them with such powers? Don't you realize that the people in the government are simply humans, and are as subject to corruption as anyone else? Why would you want them having all this information, especially given all the historical evidence that suggests that governments will abuse their powers should they be given the opportunity to do so? I do not understand.
I'd say there's a good reason that organizations like the ACLU and EFF--who dedicate themselves to defending liberty in various ways--are rather upset about this. The fact that you don't get it suggests to me that you're both profoundly ignorant and naive.
It's worth pointing out that that the majority of Americans feel this way, too.
Even if true, I don't see how that's worth pointing out. Do you think that popularity is meaningful or something?
This is supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Why don't we start acting like it?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Couldn't happen to a better agency. Guess they don't like their secrets getting out. Boo hoo. Hows it feel assholes?
Oh wait they might not read this comment. That would be sad, cuz if they don't, it can't implant itself in their minds like a sleeping agent, and explode like a semtex package at the sears tower; infecting their minds like anthrax in the pentagon ventilation system.
There, fixed that, now, why are you still reading this and not doing the right thing and leaking everything you can find? Do you work for the people or the NSA? The two are mutually exclusive.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I still haven't seen anything Snowden has released that I have a problem with the government doing to create a peaceful society. Hell, most of what has come out was known years ago and there are court cases debating the civil liberties and NSA was cleared.
I won't even bother repeating myself. A sad state of affairs that people with your mentality even exist.
The NSA won't impact my life today or tomorrow.
Yeah, they're just violating people's rights. No big deal, right? And if they actually use that information against someone, it's not a problem as long as it isn't you.
You seem just a tad bit selfish.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
"... he would consider recommending amnesty ..."
Sorry, NSA, but with your ongoing violations of our civil rights and your outright lying to our representatives faces, your "recommendations" don't mean shit. Your credibility about anything is long gone.
If I were Snowden, I"d combine the knowledge of only 2 things here, and proceed:
1) The NSA doesn't know how much data he took 2) He has a nice setup in Mutha Russia So I'd simply say, "Ok, deal!" and I'd hand them 2 more slightly irrelevant items of news, say "yup, th, th, th, th, th, th, that's aaaall folks!", get "pardoned" and simply stay in Mutha Russia.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/guardian-editor-defends-publication-of-snowden-files/2013/12/03/8204608e-5c49-11e3-8d24-31c016b976b2_story.html
Total 58,000 files.
There was no tracking in place for document retrievals? Even after Manning...
So anyone working for that contractor could be downloading and selling stuff left and right and they wouldn't know it.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
This just means that their assurances that the data won't be abused because it's under some form of protected access with an audit trail are false. Obviously.
This is predictable. Once secret information with secret dossiers exists, they will be abused because no one knows it exists in the first place; of course no one can get caught abusing a system that doesn't exist, or at least it's unlikely that anyone will get caught.
There needs to be some kind of radical transparency whereby everything everywhere is recorded but it's impossible to abuse and not be caught having abused it.
We need this information to be collected like it or not, but the way it's being done now is provably inept and open to abuse in a million ways. This is because the whole system \is a product of a group of people who are not visionaries, as of course most of us aren't, imbued with an oppositional mindset towards not just terrorists but to any type of transparency at all by anyone .
What needed is something strongly counter intuitive. A repository of secret information, means, methods and procedures which nevertheless yield to an on demand , arbitrarily scoped, irrefutable correct and transparent accounting chain of who did or accessed what when where under whose authority for any given action taken.
There has still been no leaks on elint or Remote Neural Monitoring that have been significant. What has been leaked is just a bunch of pussy shit on how the NSA can get access to just about any computer systems it wants over the telephone/internet networks, but the other whistleblower, Russell Tice claims that is the low tech system for spying. There is also a huge network of remote sensing technology, "satellite capability" according to Russell Tice, and nobody has been talking about it. What is probably there are an arsenal of directed energy weapons, some of which get used to target humans for experimentation and sabotage, and remote brain emission reading technology called Remote Neural Monitoring and Electronic Brain Link, which lets them warrantlessly spy on peoples thoughts and memories abd other nervous system functions directly. The NRO does have several ELINT satellites that could be used to do this, and the technology might even have mobile ground based versions as well. All brain activity can be remotely tampered with..
Link to more details about Remote Neural Monitoring and Russell Tice Revelations, plus patent for mind reading tech: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4545961&cid=45673227
Edward Snowden could be holding onto information on this, or something seriously damaging to the NSA for them to want to give him amnesty still. What he's leaked so far was old information, which Russell Tice had already leaked in 2006, and it just doesn't seem all that ground breaking. The main difference is Snowden has the documents on it, where as Ruseell Tice did not save or publish any.
The original poster is talking about how it didn't really collapse, it was secretly being targeted from space or other remote location with a directed energy weapon, which destroyed the molecular bonds of the material, and turned the building to dust mid-air on live TV during a controlled demolition. There is good evidence that this happened according to Dr. Judy Wood, an engineer/physicist who wrote a book about all this and the evidence that it happened.
Her website has a several hour video presentation, and she has backing of some in the scientific community. Link: http://www.drjudywood.com/
I also want to share the details about Remote Neural Monitoring and Electronic Brain Link, the NSA/etc's other secret directed energy weapon which was used to rape and maim me:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4545961&cid=45673227
There's something crazy about this that the NSA wants to cover up. Lol
See parent post for more links/info. Or go to http://www.obamasweapon.com/
http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html
Is the NSA Conducting Electronic Warfare On Americans?
Jonas Holmes May 19, 2006 CHRONICLE ARTICLE
Russ Tice, former NSA intelligence officer and current Whistleblower, was to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee this week. Apparently the testimony, Mr. Tice wanted to give, makes General Hayden’s phone surveillance program look like very small potatoes. Mr. Tice’s testimony is expected to reveal further illegal activity overseen by General Michael Hayden which even loyal and patriotic NSA employees view as unlawful. I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them. IT’S PRETTY HARD TO BELIEVE, Tice said. I hope that they’ll clean up the abuses and have some oversight into these programs, which doesn’t exist right now. According to Mr. Tice, what has been disclosed so far is only the tip of the iceberg. What in the world could Russ Tice be talking about! To figure it out let us take a look at Russ Tice’s work at the NSA.
According to the Washington Times and numerous other sources, Mr. Tice worked on special access programs related to electronic intelligence gathering while working for the NSA and DIA, where he took part in space systems communications, non-communications signals, electronic warfare, satellite control, telemetry, sensors, and special capability systems. Special Access Programs or SAPs refer to Black Budgets or Black Operations. Black means that they are covert and hidden from everyone except the participants. Feasibly there would be no arena with a greater potential for abuse and misuse than Special Access Programs. Even now Congress and the Justice Department are being denied the ability to investigate these programs because they don’t have clearance. To put it in CNN’s Jack Cafferty’s words a top secret government agency, the NSA, the largest of its kind in the world, is denying oversight or investigation by the American people because investigators lack clearance. To add a layer of irony to the Black Ops cake this travesty is occurring in America, the supposed bastion of Freedom and Democracy, which we are currently trying to export to Iraq.
It just gets scarier. The Black Ops that Mr. Tice was involved in related to electronic intelligence gathering via space systems communications, non-communications signals, electronic warfare, satellite control, telemetry, sensors, and special capability systems. For greater insight as to the impact of these programs readers should review decades old FOIA authenticated programs such as MKULTRA, BLUEBIRD, COINTELPRO and ARTICHOKE. Radar based Telemetry involves the ability to see through walls without thermal imaging. Electronic Warfare is even scarier if we take a look at the science. NSA Signals Intelligence Use of EMF Brain Stimulation. NSA Signals Intelligence uses EMF Brain Stimulation for Remote Neural Monitoring (RNM) and Electronic Brain Link (EBL). EMF Brain Stimulation has been in development since the MKUltra program of the early 1950's, which included neurological research into "radiation" (non-ionizing EMF) and bioelectric research and development. The resulting secret technology is categorized at the National Security Archives as "Radiation Intelligence," defined as "information from unintentionally emanated electromagnetic waves in the environment, not including radioactivity or nuclear detonation." Signals Intelligence implemented and kept this technology secret in the same manner as other electronic warfare programs of the U.S. government. The NSA monitors available information about this technology and withholds scientific research from the public. There are
Information on remote neural monitoring has been blocked from release by The Reynolds Group to protect the markets for their products.
Have gnu, will travel.
The collapse may have been reported early by nearly every media outlet because of messages coming from government to do so, as they were trying to get the media to propogate false information about the buildings collapse for some reason. Maybe it was to hide the fact that the World Trade Center was secretly being dustified with a directed energy weapon, and they wanted everyone to think it was really collapsing from the plane attack.
Dr. Judy Wood covers this in her book and on her website. Watch the two hour video at the top of the page that shows what really happened.
http://www.drjudywood.com/
Then again, the media could have just dropped the ball, each one trying to beat the other to the report. Lol.
I'd expect an offer of amnesty/repatriation following disclosure of the documents in Snowden's possession. There is no way the NSA is actually going to get them back. First of all, encrypted copies are probably floating around all over the 'Net. Good luck finding them. And the NSA/Justice Department is smart enough to realize that Snowden is smart enough to hold on to a lifetime guarantee of his well being. Specifically, the decrypt keys* to those documents.
So the NSA will find out what is out there, which is valuable information by itself. They'll know what has the potential to be compromised and perhaps get some idea of which internal data stores were compromised and how.
*I assume that the documents have been broken up into blocks and that there's a key for each block. That way, Snowden can threaten incremental damage or negotiate in steps.
Have gnu, will travel.
The NSA is sure to develop new schemes
Yes. But which ones? If they don't know what has been compromised, they'll have to replace everything. If they get a list of documents, they can target their efforts.
I guess the question the NSA needs answered is: "Is it safe?"
Have gnu, will travel.
At that point, the lawyer ceased to provide legal advice when they involved themselves in Snowden's crimes(by receiving the information). Any "lawyers" that Snowden has had from that point are political minders.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Yeah. I always found it funny that the conspiracy theory brought in the British news media. I mean, it's absurd to give anyone a script, but the British news media?
<sarcasm>Because if there's any group that would just fall in line with the Bush administration murdering thousands of people, it's the British news media.</sarcasm>
I remember when the assertion that one of the terrorists was actually still alive showed up...and my response was 'So you assert the US government, instead of just making up Iraqi terrorists to pin this on to invent a war, used pre-existing Saudi terrorists that they could not confirm were already dead?'
And the less said about the 'using missiles instead of planes' theory the better. Man, was that one silly or what?
There are two kinds of conspiracy theories out there. One that postulates plausible causes for actual events. I mean, Jack Ruby _did_ have mob ties, and the Kennedy administration was cracking down on the mob, so if you want to assert that Oswald did a mob hit of JFK, and then was taken out, hey, I don't quite believe you, but you're not _insane_. That is indeed plausible.
The other kind of conspiracy theory is where you take some event and randomly find 'inconsistencies', which are usually just things said in confusion that are untrue, or misunderstandings of what is going on, or things that are completely normal but don't look normal to people who don't understand disaster, and try to build a massive conspiracy using every single one of them. None of which will hold up to the single question of 'Why the hell would anyone running that conspiracy actually do that?'
Which, in the context of the Kennedy assassination, is basically trying to make there be more other active shooters beside Oswald, elaborate conspiracy theories about misunderstanding of physics and bullets instead of just saying 'Yes, Oswald shot him...but _why_?', which is a much better question.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
somebody who was as strongly pro-US-government as you seem to be,
I don't think of myself as pro-US-government, so I'm confused how that slipped in, and as it's a color statement for the rest of your reply, it seems that there's a fundamental disconnect in our viewpoints.
Perhaps it's my "it's not Obama, stupid" stance. Obama did nothing that wasn't already done by a Republican before him, not even the health care. So vilifying Obama is blind partianship. I'm anti-partianship, so I'll "stand up" for Obama by pointing out the evils of the other side. Though that's in no way supporting the president I didn't vote for for either term. It's just thought as such by people who don't like him. Other's bad assumptions do not define my views. Obama is bad. Bush was worse.
If anything, because I'm anti-party, I'm anti-US-government. The USA isn't the government that represents it, but the people that constitute it.
Learn to love Alaska
...to the Principle of Least Privilege? What was the oathbreaker (I refuse to speak of him by his given name, and if that makes me a troll, so be it) working on that would give him copy access to that many files? Was he preparing some sort of comparative concordance with the WikiLeaks files?
The Principle of Least Privilege is one of the core emphases for the CompTIA Security+ certification exam. One would hope that an organization that goes by the moniker of "National Security Agency" would grok what's on that certification exam, at the very least.
Just my 2p worth. Save up the change for a root beer or something.
All the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits play only bit parts.
http://www.noaa.gov/foia/training_tutorials/redacting-documents.html
Snowden made the choice to betray, not the US. The only thing that the US failed to do was to act on a recognized threat - before and after his departure from US soil. If anything, the only thing saving him is that the current administration:
1) thinks that what his actions are compatible with their own animus towards the US.
2) doesn't want to lose flexibility by taking definitive action on something.
If he's willing to hand over information to a US-hostile government and claim asylum from the US, he's effectively expressed an allegiance to that other country. Normally, that results in consequences that range from long prison sentences to death.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
By going the extra mile to avoid justice, he only is signalling his guilt and the strength of the case against him. If he really thinks he is innocent in the face of the evidence against him, he would have taken his chances in a court of law, something that doesn't really exist in Russia or China.
Me? I'm someone that understands that the Reagan administration would have not let it get this far - Snowden would have been handled much sooner. It also was the same administration that understood the value of keeping national defense secrets(versus the Carter and Clinton eras) while enhancing freedom.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Dropping nukes on Japan was about two things :
1) revenge
and
2) Showing the rest of the world what they could expect if they messed with the US.
It's too bad the U.S. didn't try dropping a nuke on Detroit -- there's a chance that Detroit would look as good as Hiroshima does these days.
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
Should know? That's the job for the classification system to objectively determine, not Snowden's to outsource.
When the messenger becomes a large enough liability, you don't let them get larger.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The American people is the BOSS of the NSA; it's in the Constitution.
But the government's argument is that the Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over the NSA's activities. How much more unconstitutional can you get?
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
There are tons of stateless actors (and not an insignificant number of nation-states) whom are clearly enemies of the United States that benefit from his disclosures of our SIGINT sources and methods.
Oh, please. Our real enemies have known for a long time to avoid electronic communications. That's why it took so long to find Bin Laden — he communicated with the outside world through a network of trusted, non-electronic couriers.
The only point of the panopticon's activities these days is to (1) catch really dumb terrorists, and (2) serve their unidentified masters in the creation of a totalitarian surveillance state.
Just yesterday, Slashdot posted an article about how Boston police had plenty of information about a stolen motorcycle yet did nothing. So fighting crime obviously isn't high up on the list of priorities for our panopticon. So what is?
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
the collapse of building 7 was way too shady in my opinion. Add to that the fact that the news of its collapse were reported 20 minutes prior to it actually happening.
Didn't you know? The NWO/Illuminati/Bilderburg/whatever conspiracy goes back in time in order to cover up their activities! That's why there's no evidence! And the lack of evidence is proof that it happened!
With my level of insane paranoia, I easily qualify to work for the government intelligence services.
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
Even though if the intentions were to only use the data against criminals, terrorists and what not, the fact is that this data will be leaked again and again. How many more people than Snowden at NSA got hold of data, but did not go public with it, but maybe sold it? A system as large as NSA is running can never be totally secure. Just to running it, and to make any use of it it requires thousands of people to have access. This alone is an argument for not storing all data you can. Because it is not only you who will access it. Your enemies will too.
I don't buy into anything. Edward Snowden seems to believe that there is no security by obscurity for long, and that he shouldn't bet his future on this. Yes, Chelsea Manning stumbled for her own fault. No, I don't think Edward Snowden might have fallen for the same trap. But in the end, it makes no difference which coincidence or happenstance would have revealed his identity. He wanted to get out of the U.S. reach, and by doing that, he was revealing his identity anyway or at least was putting himself as a prime suspect for the leaks when he didn't appear on his workplace anymore.
You can read about Tice here.
There is nothing to what you say. HE clearly was talking about the same programs Snowden has leaked.
Anyway, having spent some small time studying in the general area yo're talking about, brainwaves etc there's really no chance of this yet, Like, none. It might come to pass but that is even farther off than threats from nanotechnology.
Sure' they'd love to effectively read minds, even more so from a undetectable and vantage point with a wide view of subjects, as space based satellites would afford. But there's just no way. The signals are way way too weak. No one even knows if specific thoughts correlate to specific detectable electrical activity. No one can even particularly correlate any brain activity with "a thought" which is itself a very slippery eel, even though you think your thoughts are things with clear boundaries and specific content.
There's so many thing wrong with the idea that you can read thoughts at all. Maybe a general state of agitation or anger maybe from small distance maybe. But controlling people's minds and thoughts and knowing what they're thinking ala MKULTRA forget it; Really. Just forget it. They can't do it, they're not going to be doing it in our lifetimes, the barrier to doing is simply mountains of basic science which yet to be done or even conceived of.
Just in case you're really worrying about this or worse actually conducting your actions in the real world based on some idea that this is true, know that really, it's just not. Whatever else you have to worry about, both known and unknown to you, you absolutely don't have to worry about this.
Peace.
LOL "here" shoudl have been the wiki article under his name
because of false assumptions, mistakes, delusion, and manipulation! HE MADE A HUGE MISTAKE...
he could have released the info, done the 'right thing' and REMAINED ANONYMOUS...he could have even kept his job probably...the guy who released the Pentagon Papers (which were at this level of scandal) during Vietnam had a 30 year career in the FBI after
Snowden screwed up, because his worldview is flawed just like many other techie-types & the cognitive dissonance is off the charts...you can see it going back over our exchange and other's responses
you tacitly admit that but you won't say it plainly but I'm not out to get some conversational catharsis...i don't care
what I care about is understanding **what is actually happening** which very few people seem to understand
the USA Today article from my GP and other questions I've raised completely undercuts the Snowden narrative
its time techies stop projecting their Asperberger's-Inspired devotion to government spying on Snowden and start seeing that Snowden is a dupe, and so are they
Thank you Dave Raggett
If the US has such good protections for journalists, why are they introducing double-blind systems for anonymous data submission?
I suspect its because they don't feel like their sources are protected at all.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
How is he not a patriot? Would a German citizen who leaked info about the concentration camps to the citizens of that country not have been a patriot during WWII just because he thought what his country was doing to be wrong?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
...is that you don't know what you have, and you must hire so many people to deal with it that you have no idea who is looking at what, and you can't even figure out who is stealing what. Madness.
If your goal were to live in a free and righteous USA, you'd have to believe that Snowden is not in fact working against it.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I think comparing spying which should be a NO SHIT post WWII to the holocaust is a great example on how skewed current opinion really is
IBM predicted in 2011 that mind reading would be mainstream within 5 years, in the consumers hands. The link is on my website, or Google "IBM 5 in 5 2012". The patent on mind reading is from 1998, and even describes using remote firing devices to stimulate the brain remotely, allowing full remote control. It is already done, computers allow any electrical emission using EEG to be decoded and interpreted. There are even recorded videos from humans of what they see when watching a movie, which is also on my website.
The physics behind remote mind reading is also sound. I totally know that the NSA has had this since at least the nineties, ever since computers got fast enough to do all the work. They're just kept it totally secret. Period. Anyone who says anything else is a fucking noob, period, with no background or understanding of the issue.
Go look again noobs: http://www.obamasweapon.com/
If they can focus a satellite at your brain, or yo yo theyr city, they can do mind reading. The satellites today are 51200 times more powerful than Hubble, dudes, if you apply Moore's law which does apply to optics and integrated sensors and curcuits. A single satellite could potentially monitor hundreds of thousands of people at once, and it's all being used today to secretly tap everybody.
anywhere...period.
First, the 1st Amendment is the world's standard for the free press. Nowhere is it codified more surely.
our laws say that a journalist cannot be forced to give up a source...the journalist can be called to testify, and if they choose not to, they *can* be incarcerated without trial but only for a period of time.
If they can wait it out, the law says until the detention is no longer coercive...that means **if they stick to their guns they will be released**
It usually is a matter of a few months but can be up to a year.
If a journalist does that, especially with something like the Snowden leaks, ****THEY GET RICH OFF A BOOK DEAL**** and can write their professional ticket.
When I was in college learning this stuff we all *wanted* to be the guy who goes to prison to protect the source...it's a badge of honor!!!!
Fucking Glenn Grenwald wouldn't know the first thing about journalism, professionalism, honor, or ***PROTECTING HIS SOURCE***
It works. Look at Deep Throat and the Pentagon papers. It proves the whole Snowden narrative to be a sham.
Damnit! and damn you for not knowing this!
This used to be common knowledge to any High School graduate.
Thank you Dave Raggett
The Apartheid governments of South Africa had no business calling anybody else terrorists; Mandela was 30 when they took over, and they were far worse than the British colonial government he'd been working against before then.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The collapse may have been reported early by nearly every media outlet because of messages coming from government to do so, as they were trying to get the media to propogate false information about the buildings collapse for some reason
That would be an exceptionally dumb thing to do because it would give evidence of fakery directly to the media.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
are you saying that the government during the Pentagon Papers was somehow ***LESS INTERESTED IN COVERING ITS ASS***???
wtf are you talking about? minimizing the influence of the Pentagon Papers? You're just doing debate geometry now...you're just spitballing counter-arguments no matter how valid or realistic.
the CIA during that time **killed presidents** and **presidential candidates** among other things...you're saying that the military industrial complex didn't give a shit about the Pentagon Papers
and BTW, the guy who released the Pentagon Papers, and several other examples, are living normal lives right now
even if your dumb assertions were true it still wouldn't prove my point wrong
Thank you Dave Raggett
Whistleblowers get immunity and awards, not amnesty.
We have a criminal class ruling the USA. We need to stop dancing around the reality and begin to deal with it. Just because this class has a great PR machine doesn't mean they should get away with conning the US public indefinitely.
As compartmentalized as the NSA is, SOMEBODY is responsible. Precisely who is, and should be tried for treason nobody seems to want to talk about. I supposed we could start with the entire Congress...
Looks a lot like it doesn't it. The known leaker was only subjected to petty harrassment as distinct from planes being diverted etc for Snowden.
It didn't say that in the Pentagon Papers did it? Im sure there would have been a much stronger reaction if it did.
Why are you bringing the CIA into this anyway? Do you know anything at all about the Pentagon Papers? If you don't why are you bringing them up?
Justice, my ass. The current Ruling Party regime claims that they can hold people without trial indefinitely, kill them without so much as an indictment (let alone a trial and conviction), kill civilians in other countries without a declaration of war, and as Snowden informed us, commit billions of felonies on a routine basis.
Snowded would have to be as stupid as you are to let the government you worship get their hands on him.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
'Why the hell would anyone running that conspiracy actually do that?'
Yeah like the flapping US flag in the supposedly faked moon landings. Did they actually bring a fan into the studio? Why didn't it blow all the dust around?
I have a suspicion that somebody confused US east coast time with GMT or British local time in the instance of the BBC.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Except for the part where he's sided with countries hostile with the US and given them (amongst other parties) that stand to gain from his betrayal of the US and all of its citizens.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
When did he do this? Feel free to actually back a statement like that up with facts? If you mean Russia, there's no data to suggest he's sided with them at all.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)