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Tesla Says Garage Fire Not Charger's Fault; Firemen Less Sure
cartechboy writes "It looks like Elon Musk and Tesla Motors find themselves in another PR war over the cause of a fire involving a Tesla Model S. Authorities in Irvine, CA are currently investigating the reason for a fire in a garage that, yes, contained a Tesla Model S. While the actual cause of the fire remains unknown, Tesla Motors and the Orange County Fire Authority are already publicly disputing possible causes, thought to center around the Tesla charging system. Tesla says the fire was not caused by any part of the car nor its charging system, reports Reuters. For what its worth — we've seen a version of this movie before. In 2011, investigators determined that a garage fire that destroyed a Chevrolet Volt had started away from the car, later spreading to engulf and destroy the car."
This is where Musk's Hubris is going to be a problem.
There's no way that he can know for sure what happened in the fire, and he's going to risk having to eat crow -- lots and lots of crow -- if he's proven wrong.
I love the guy, but hubris is clearly among his worst qualities.
My educated guess is oily or gas soaked rags that were not disposed of or stored properly.
Garage fires aren't a very common topic on Slashdot.
Am going to guess it was faulting wire of the building that caused the fire. Not Tesla fault but the electrician or possible old wiring.
Or someone realized they couldn't make their car payments.
Ah, the old "Hey, I don't know what this is, so it must be the cause of the fire" argument.
Of course fire investigators will point to a piece of new technology as the cause of the fire. It's easy and they are lazy. Just like videogames are the cause of all school shootings.
And before that, it was cell phones causing brain cancer,
And before that it was rock and roll music causing children to misbehave.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Even if it is the charger it may be the wiring not the device itself. A friend had an attic fire that was caused by a hallway smoke detector (AC powered) of all things. The fire investigator determined the smoke detector was wired incorrectly.
"garage fire started by improperly installed electrical outlet" just doesn't get you as many clicks.
The garage fire was Nov 15, the Tesla S did not sustain any damage. The damage was all on the wall socket side.
Where there's smoke there's (Tesla) fires.
"The fire occurred as a result of an electrical failure in the charging system for an electric vehicle," said a report by the fire authority, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters.
The report also emphasizes that the cause of the fire is unclear.
These cause more fires than anything elseExcept gasoline powered vehicles.
Several hundred thousand car fires occur per year, but they don't make the news.
While filling up your car with gasoline you *can* just let it fill and walk away to do something else. Most people I see hang around or go sit in their car.
Do not get in your car while fueling. It's a great way to generate a static shock and unlike cell phones, really does start fires.
If the cable was damaged at the wall side but not the car side, my immediate thought is a problem in the wall socket or wiring. I've run into that with regular outlets, old hardware causes high resistance and a very hot outlet and plug (thermal conduction through the metal parts). The most common cause is age causing corrosion of the connection plates inside the socket or looseness of the plates so the prongs of the plug don't make good tight contact with them. Either way it raises the resistance of the connection inside the socket and creates a lot of heat (it's doing exactly what the heating elements on an electric stove do). My fix is to open up the outlet and replace the socket with a new one, cleaning up and tightening the wires in the process.
The #2 problem is the actual in-wall wiring being old and just not up to gauge for the current draw of modern electronics. In 1970 we didn't have home computers and Xboxes and the like, 14-gauge wiring was common and hooking up a modern home-entertainment center and computer would have the wiring in the wall hot to the touch. Plug a Tesla into older wiring like that and you've got a fire waiting to happen.
Personally I never let electricity be used unless it is under my direct supervision. Whenever I run the A/C, I go outside and watch the compressor unit until it has cooled the house down. Likewise, whenever I need hot water I go out in the garage, manually turn the water heater on, and wait until the water is completely heated. I throw the main breaker and remove the power meter from the side of the house every time before going to work, the store, etc.
You just can't be too safe nowadays.
This is why you don't use an aftermarket charger!
The energy density of gasoline is higher. Additionally, though it's gasoline vapor that burns, any process producing a large volume of gas in a confined space can be considered explosive. The electric shock potential and dealing with lithium specifically seem to be more relevant concerns.
I should say "potentially explosive" because it's not actually exploding until the confinement ruptures--explosively.
It's a win-win strategy.
1. Deny it all before the crazies run amok with unchallenged media coverage of the fire.
2. If wrong, eh, it happens. Apologize, deliver an update, and good will. No one will hate him for it. Just business as usual.
3. If he's right, or it's ambiguous as to what happened, he wins.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
Down in Texas, they put a man to death (Cameron Todd Willingham) because they were sure he committed arson and killed his kids. Forensic scientists later showed the fire marshal to be wrong using....science. I'd rather trust scientists to tell me what happened than some firefighter that just lasted on the job long enough to be the investigator or kissed enough butt.
This doesn't make them fireproof, it makes them fire resistant, due to the high water content contained. This is the same concept as a "fireproof" safe, which is really only fire resistant. Once that water's gone, the temperature spikes rapidly by thermal conduction, even if the fire-resisting material itself doesn't burn directly.
A war over public opinion. I don't know why the struggling U.S. automakers have not embraced electric vehicles. They will make a "zombie" truck which everyone thinks is funny, but nobody actually wants. But tend to be disposed to doing everything in their power to resist that which is (probably) better for the environment and more efficient for a good portion of the population commuting just a few miles every day. Did they learn nothing from the Nissan Leaf sales?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Thank Goodness Tesla is distracting Fox News. We Volt owners thought their nonsense barrage would never let up. At least Tesla has Musk to fire back pithy retorts.
1 Dachshund + 1 Dachshunds = A Paradox.
We don't have Jerry Reed to make a new song for all these fancy new eee-lectric autymobiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOMcAlO7rQ
That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
Try that in Mass and you might wind up getting arrested. By law, you have to stand there, holding the pump handle, and can't stuff something in there to keep it pumping. A small minority of gas stations still have those metal clips to let you do it, and some people stuff other things in there anyway, but it is in violation of the law to do it that way.
Its not like they had a famous actor die in one of their cars recently.... or anyone
NEC requires derating circuits with continuous loads to 80% of their breaker value, so a 15A circuit can only provide 12A on a continuous basis (which by NEC definition is more than 3 hours).
If Tesla takes more than 12A for more than 3 hours, then by law it cannot be charged from a standard home wall socket, which is a 14AWG branch circuit rated for 15A at the breaker.
If Tesla overlooked this requirement and put a 15A plug on their charging cable, then they are liable for any damage caused by their improper cable plug selection and lack of warnings.
FTA, the car owner said she set "the timer" to start charging at midnight. Where is this timer, in the car or on the charger connection? Maybe she is using one of those $4 light timers. Does anyone know if the Tesla can turn on its own charging system at some designated time? For that matter, how does the Tesla know what time it is? The fire department might be familiar with historic causes of fires, but (1) hardly any fireman knows anything about electricity as such, and (2) they could scarcely know anything about garage fires associated with electric cars, since so far we only know of somewhere in the vicinity of one happening.
If it's Tesla, it's news.
Those who followed the MANY years of Ford ignition system and later cruise control switch fires might notice a double standard.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/automobiles/27FORD.html?_r=0&gwh=376B79D2A392CB21E4879B859797FE30&gwt=pay
"Fordâ(TM)s response to the fires â" first refusing to acknowledge that the switches posed a fire hazard, then conducting four recalls over seven years â" angered fire victims and consumer advocates. It does not hurt their cases that Ford was accused of dragging its feet in other high-profile recalls.
âoeItâ(TM)s a cultural issue within Ford Motor Company,â said Rob Ammons, a Houston lawyer who is suing Ford on behalf of an Iowa man, Earl Mohlis, whose wife, Dolly, died after their home caught fire. The lawsuit claims the manâ(TM)s 1996 Ford F-150 pickup caught fire in the garage. The blaze spread to the house, killing Mrs. Mohlis. âoeItâ(TM)s the same exact pattern,â Mr. Ammons said. âoeYou saw it with the Pinto. You saw it with the ignition fires a decade ago. You saw it with Firestone. And you see it here.â
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Pickup trucks did catch fire in the garages. The cruise control stayed live when the car was off. Some rubber part could get a hole in it. Gas would leak through onto the live circuit causing a fire. There were sever pretty burned out garage pictures during that time. It didn't make a big splash because no one got hurt.
Ugh. People did die in the house fires. Sorry for the error.
You want one like linseed oil that will heat up via chemical reaction.
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage. [...] On average, 17 automobile fires were reported per hour. These fires killed an average of four people every week.
http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/vehicles
U.S. Vehicle Fire Trends and Patterns (pdf)
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
You think we'd hear about more of those...
You have to remember that the news likes to report 'news', IE unusual events. If car fires are frequent enough to not be news, but aren't so high as to trigger a 'trend' type news program, then you don't see them.
Tesla vehicles are distinctive, new, unusual, and thus more newsworthy. We hear pretty much every event with one.
I don't read AC A human right
About 8 fires per day in the US occur in vehicle fuel tanks or fuel lines (excluding after crashes), and are responsible for about 1/6th of all vehicle-fire deaths.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Same deal in florida. The sad thing? I've seen more pumps overflow in locations like that because the people are actually more fallible than the little metal latch.
Same deal with the new 'anti-spill' gasoline cans. Many of them are so hard to use and pour irregularly(due to not having a proper vent) that you end up spilling more gasoline, defeating the purpose behind mandating them in the first place.
Plus, again because they suck, I've seen a lot more people using non-gasoline containers to store gasoline. How's that increasing safety?
I don't read AC A human right
why don't they just install an automatic fire extinguisher. problem solved, and bonus points for being innovative.
I'm wiring up a smoke detector in my garage. Smoke detectors aren't often found in garages due to the false positives they sound off on - because of car exhausts. I have an Plug in Electric Hybrid, and this guy has a Tesla. Perfect for a Nest Protect. No exhaust to trigger false positives.
Joseph Elwell.