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Huge Pool of Ice-Free Water Discovered Under Greenland Ice
The BBC reports that researchers have discovered a huge pool of meltwater beneath Greenland's ice sheet, trapped "in the air space between particles of ice, similar to the way that fruit juice stays liquid in a slush drink."
From the article, based on research published in Nature Geoscience (abstract): "The scientists say the water is prevented from freezing by the large amounts of snow that fall on the surface of the ice sheet late in the summer. This insulates the water from the air temperatures which are below freezing, allowing the water to persist as liquid all year long. Other researchers believe this discovery may help explain disparities between projections of mass loss by climate models and observations from satellites."
Hrrrmph.
Given our current level of technology, I'm always amazed when we discover large scale things like this. We have out cities mapped and photographed down to the meter, but we keep finding things like this.
So when the worldwide population multiplies, will water be the new oil?
Sorta like the bulk of the oceans remain liquid under the ice that forms in the northern oceans.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Sounds like these climate models ain't worth a turd.
This year...
"Damn, we didn't take the slushy effect into account"
Next year...
"Damn, we didn't take the shaken not stirred effect into account"
If this slushy effect is real then update the model, recalculate the figures for the previous years data and see how accurate it is.
Don't waste everyone's time making predictions using a model that doesn't work on previous years data.
...said the physics teacher.
Under pressure, the freezing point of water is lowered. The more pressure, the lower the ice point. To demonstrate:
Assume that a container is indestructible (let's say, a sphere with a perfect seal). It is full of water with no gas in solution or loose in bubbles or anything like that. Just pure water. Now, stick it in a deep freeze. Wait.
Water has the odd property of expanding at around 4C at normal (sea level) pressure. By the time it freezes at 0C under those same pressure conditions, it has expanded to fill 1/8 more volume than it did as a liquid. This is why icebergs float. This is why distilled water ice cubes also float. The liquid water does its thing and... you know the rest. Titanic.
The water in the sphere is prevented from freezing for the simple reason that it has nowhere to go. It has no space to expand into. If it cannot expand, it cannot freeze. How low can you go? I have no idea, having no access to magnetocaloric equipment. But I daresay, you wouldn't meet the conditions required to get the volume of water to contract to the point where it can solidify in the available space, outside of a suitably equipped laboratory or in the shadow of an outer planet.
Further reading suggests temperatures approaching/lower than about 70K (-203C) to achieve this. Further reading.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Upon graduation, he went to work directly at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies where he studied the composition of the atmosphere of Venus. But after a decade of research he switched his research to the changing atmosphere of another planet: Earth.
Ah Ha!
Interpretation: Dr. Hansen's detailed and meticulous investigations of Venus yields no profitable intelligence to NASA. NASA communicates to Hansen: "Hay dip shit. Produce some results or produce your grave! [This was in the Vietnam era of American Foreign Policy and while the words are harsh they are accurate in the meaning of those sending and those receiving.]"
Now Hansen finds himself in a real career bind: His research of 10 years is shit. What will be do?
Congressional Meeting April 22, 1988: "Hansen Goes Ballistic ... to save his petty and pitiful ditch digger career at beloved NASA! [snicker i.e. 'money.']"
James E. Hansen: Pedofile, Sociopath, Pervert, Disgruntled former employee of the U.S.A. Not particularly dangerous to citizens of the U.S.A.
Source (not inclusive):
http://grist.org/article/a-climate-hero-the-early-years/
http://www.ridenhour.org/prizes_courage_2013.html
Nailed this ass wipe! :-)
Other researchers believe this discovery may help explain disparities between projections of mass loss by climate models and observations from satellites
Or maybe not. For all we know that slush has been there since the last ice age.
At Summit Greenland the ice is in excess of 3000 meters thick!
The effect of the layer of daily or monthly snow on top has nothing to be with ice at bottom (its the weight of the total column) nor the daily or monthly variation of water between the ice and the rock bed.
Sorry ICE guys! You're fucked! You blew your own dicks by removing a vertebra from your spineless backs.
Snicker snicker.
So there was a discrepancy between prediction and observation for the AGW model. Why haven't we heard about that before? Only now that the observations are consistent with theory do we find out about it. Yet more evidence that climate scientists are not real scientists.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Cue the usual conga line of climate change denying assholes trying to use this as evidence for their delusion.
If that water underneath the ice made it possible that the entire sheet of ice could slide off in one go, that would make projections of melting time somewhat irrelevant. Might just nead a bit of an earthquake to get things moving...
Could title this, "Increased African Ant Flatulence Dooms Earth to Hot House."
[Snicker snicker]
I suspect that Jason's crowd sourcing experiment did not work so well ... i.e. no one was fooled by his fool funding presumptions and now no one will be fooled by his graduate student's foolish ploys at sophistry.
Pity. And pity not. Pity my ass.
How's this for an analogy. Just because science can't pin down when you are going to die to the minute does not mean that you are immortal.
Is that a clear and polite enough response to your "intellectual honesty" accusation of lying? Do you even understand that it is an accusation of lying or are you just a parrot repeating propaganda that you have heard?
...This water is in the firn [wikipedia.org] which occurs down to a depth of around 50 meters [nationalgeographic.com]..
Is it just me, or is everyone else appalled by the idea of citing the wiki and the Nat.Geog. as authoritative sources?
"...From the quoted statement, I have no real evidence that Sir David King is doing anything less than rounding off the error bars to the nearest 10 percentile...."
It's now well established, at least in all scientific circles, that anyone who supports the idea of Global Warming is either a liar or a moron.
Or, of course, a Greenpeace activist, where you can be both at once...
NASA has know for years about Antarctica's below freezing water.
It is not overstating the case because the trend is even more obvious now than when a conclusive report about it was placed on President Johnson's desk. The exact details of how and why are less obvious.
It's as if you are arguing against the effect of gravity just because we don't know the details about how it happens. We can see things falling when we drop them so we can notice the trend instead of assuming they will change direction in mid fall.
The temperature rise is ongoing, it's history now, not just prediciton, and there really is no point denying what has already happened so far.
I've seen it before - I think it was one of "Lord" Monckton's little jabs from his science denial roadshow.
Right, it is necessary for scientific constantly looking for new things. Rolex
Let's see if you can guess mine:
Marduk T-Shirt, military boots, necklace with an inverted pentagram, leather jacket with stickers of Immortal, an inverted crucifix a Church of Satan button, heavy duty working trousers... hmm, difficult, very difficult to guess.
\m/
-- 29A the number of the Beast
So, that's were they were hiding... and holding the rest of the world for a fool making us believe that they were our there in the icy wilderness freezing their balls off with nothing to eat but live baby seals while they actually were enjoying Martinis and banana splits in their underground climatized giant pool!
-- 29A the number of the Beast
That water moves around in both solid (porosity under a couple of %) ice and less compacted snow (let's call it "firn", because Wegener was German) is well known. Sometimes it moves in large channels - look up "joukullhlaup' for some fun figures - sometimes in small or microscopic ones. But always it remains hydrogen oxide, and so has a very large specific latent heat of crystallisation. So large, in fact, that if you try to freeze a cubic metre of water at zero centigrade into ice at zero centigrade, you relaese enough heat to melt almost a cubic metre of ice (at zero centigrade) into water (at zero centigrade).
So, once you get away from radiative cooling (to space, via the atmosphere) and evaporative cooling (to the atmosphere), then you've only got the relatively slow conductive and convective cooling routes to get rid of that latent heat of crystallisation. Since ice - as solid ice, or as compacted snow or firn - is actually a pretty decent insulator (build a snow hole and see!), then it's not really astonishing that water can persist as a pore fluid in ice for long periods.
Moderately interesting science, reasonable TFA ; terrible TFS.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"