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Inside Piston-Powered Nuclear Fusion Company General Fusion

quax writes "Slashdot first reported on the Canadian start-up company that is attempting piston powered nuclear fusion back in 2009. This new blog post takes a look at where they are now, and gives some additional behind the scene info. For instance, a massive experimental rig for magnetized target fusion in the US is currently underutilized, because ITER's increasing costs absorb all the public fusion research funding. Because this Shiva Star device is located in an Air Force base, security restrictions prevent any meaningful cooperation with a non-U.S. companies. Even if U.S. researchers would love to rent this out to advance the science of magnetized target fusion, restrictions make this is a no go."

26 of 117 comments (clear)

  1. What? by wiggles · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That summary made no sense.

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, lets try it in English then.

      There are some Canuks trying a specific type of nuclear fusion. Two other groups seem to be doing similar research, but one has been effectively denied funding because of a different project getting headlines, and the other is a military research so it has no headlines until the USAF decides to get some mass-produced.

    2. Re:What? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's a new summary for you:

      Tiny fusion project that's functionally pretty cheap wants more money, and publishes some promising, but uncertain results.

      I could use that same summary for several different projects today.

    3. Re:What? by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      Slashdot "editors" are editors the same way the garbage truck driver is a "sanitation engineer".

      Sanitation engineering is a real thing (different from driving a truck). Real sanitation engineers are civil engineers who design landfills, wastewater treatment plants and recycling facilities.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Real engineers drive trains (at least that's what people think when I tell them I'm an engineer). So it's logical that driving a sanitation truck would make you a sanitation engineer.

    5. Re:What? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, I know what that published unprecedented energy density results in the journal of plasma physics. I'm not aware of any meetings they attended, though.

  2. Re:General Fusion? by noh8rz10 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I ran out of oil once in my car and my gasoline engine did piston fusion into a single block of metal

  3. A problem with Canada? by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because this Shiva Star device is located in an Air Force base, security restrictions prevent any meaningful cooperation with a non-U.S. companies.

    We have a problem with Canadians because of security restrictions? WTF - NORAD is a joint US-Canadian operation. The 2nd in command is always Canadian. If that's not giving Canadians access to important military operations (specifically USAF no less) then I don't know what is.

    1. Re:A problem with Canada? by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently you don't know what "access" is, in a government-secret sense.

      We've built up a program as a joint effort. That's fine for that program. That does not mean there's a blanket trust for Canadians to access all programs at all locations. Military secrecy is handled on a need-to-know basis, and outside of NORAD, the Canadians do not need to know.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:A problem with Canada? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      What else is on that base that the foreigner can get to more easily because of his access to Shiva Star?

      Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonald's, Mini Wal Marts and other hallmarks of American 'culture'. You want to be careful letting these things out in the world - they can cause amazing damage in the wrong hands.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:A problem with Canada? by ddd0004 · · Score: 2

      You can't let them in here. They'll see everything. They'll see the big board.

    4. Re:A problem with Canada? by jeff13 · · Score: 2

      Dude, it's the Pentagon. The Pentagon considers the US a foreign country. ;p

  4. MIT teaching COld Fusion seminar in January by peter303 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    MIT Prof Peter Hagelstein, one of the rare true believers in battery-type cold fusion is teaching his cold fusion seminar again. Just about everyone else in academia does not believe him. Peter has done brilliant work in other subjects such as Xray lasers, so MIT tolerates him.

    1. Re:MIT teaching COld Fusion seminar in January by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just because you went to MIT or teach there doesn't mean your smart. The most successful fusion researchers came from Madison WI.

      There will never ever be cold fusion. Over coming the Coulomb barrier is an inherently thermal process.

    2. Re: MIT teaching COld Fusion seminar in January by benjfowler · · Score: 2

      I overheard this being put to a very senior researcher at the Joint European Torus since time ago.

      He said that they've cracked the heating problem, and have done so for years. Also, muons are very expensive to produce.

      Tokamaks work well. All the required technologies have been tested in isolation and have been shown to work. The issues now are engineering an economical, scaled up, integrated prototype. That's ITER.

    3. Re:MIT teaching COld Fusion seminar in January by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There will never ever be cold fusion.

      Heavier than air flying machines are impossible.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:MIT teaching COld Fusion seminar in January by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      The laws of physics are a lot more friendly to flying machines than contained and controlled fusion.

      Fusion researches have told us that they were 10 years away from a huge breakthrough for 40 years. Is it possible that my home will be powered by a fusion reactor in my lifetime? Sure. But I would not bet a dollar on it.

  5. Re:Sucks to be a foreigner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As someone who has worked for a UK defense company - ITAR is more of a problem for the US than it's allies. The US has a nightmare contracting out work to european companies that have a technology/experience they need. You should see the time and money they waste, it is extraordinary.

  6. Sounds Very Steampunkish by cruff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For what ever reason, "piston powered nuclear fusion" sounds like it belongs in a Steampunk novel or movie!

  7. Re:Sucks to be a foreigner by donscarletti · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ITER is an initiative 45% funded by the EU and 9% funded by the US, that Americans repeatedly complain about sucking away all of America's money, even though it was America's idea to build it in the first place, America gets an equal share of the knowledge gained and America only has to pay one 11th of the cost, despite having the largest economy out of the participants.

    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
  8. Re:General Fusion? by netsavior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    but in the Zemeckis causality, a genius inventor with no regard for preserving the natural timeline traveled back to 1885, and then abandoned a highly sophisticated laboratory capable of refrigeration and probably other disruptive technologies. In other words, the 2015 we saw in Back to the Future, was heavily augmented by timeline disrupting technology injections in both 1885 and 1955... and 1985 for that matter. Chances are, most of that stuff could not be invented as early in our timeline, because in the BTTF timeline, doc brown and others saw the various technologies in action, years before they were duplicated/invented.

    In my opinion this same phenomenon explains perfectly why the JJAbrams Star Trek is perfectly justified in having more advanced ships and transporters than the Roddenberry continuity. 8 minutes of sensor scans of a ship 129 more years advanced than anything ever witnessed would change the course of technology forever.

  9. Re:Sucks to be a foreigner by nojayuk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually the EU has a higher GDP than the US, the usual marker for the strength of an economy. Mostly that's due to the greater population (505 million EU citizens compared to 310 million or so Americans) as per-capita GNP in the EU is a bit less since we don't have quite as much raw materials production (oil, gas, coal) which inflates the figures.

    The US tried withholding its funding contributions for ITER during the run-up to the off-the-books trillion-dollar war in Iraq after most of the other participants in the project decided it should be built in Cadarache in France, home of the cheese-eating surrender monkeys, instead of Japan. It didn't work, America decided to rejoin the project and they're pouring concrete this month in southern France for the reactor vessel's base.

  10. Brilliant Summary by wjcofkc · · Score: 2

    Slashdot has finally found a way to force people to read the article before posting.

    In all seriousness, it's nice to see new approaches to the problem of creating a fusion reaction that produces more usable energy than it consumes. Between the National Ignition Facility (which unfortunately was largely but not entirely dedicated to military research at the first sign of success), going massive with ITER, and this piston powered approach, I believe we will one day get there. We may try and fail and try and fail, but ultimately there is no stopping humanity.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  11. US vs EU GDP by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually the EU has a higher GDP than the US

    Depends on how you measure it. The EU has a higher nominal GDP but a slightly lower GDP under PPP. Both are right around $16-17 Trillion in 2013.

    per-capita GNP in the EU is a bit less since we don't have quite as much raw materials production (oil, gas, coal) which inflates the figures.

    As for GDP per capita, it isn't even close. The US population is around 315 milliion versus 510 million in the EU. Since the GDP is roughly the same, the US GDP per capita is about 40% higher at around $52,000 versus $34,000 for the EU. The differences in GDP are not explained by energy production. The EU is the 7th largest energy producer and 2nd largest consumer) while the US is the 3rd largest energy producer and largest consumer (with China catching up fast). Both economies have services sectors that comprise around 68-69% of the economy. Both have similar sized manufacturing sectors and agriculture sectors. Frankly the US and EU economies are remarkably similar in many ways.

  12. Re:Awesome by Immerman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Better than Polywell fusion? They're still under a publishing embargo, but if the Navy progress report is to be believed they have managed to demonstrate p-B fusion last year which is practically the holy grail of fusion for electrical-generating purposes - no neutron flux from the primary reaction, no clunky inefficient heat engine necessary to generate electricity, and the main researchers seem to have mostly all jumped ship to found an energy-related company.

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    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  13. Re:Awesome by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 2
    Yes. The biggest problem of all the other fusion power approaches are the output part: how do you get electricity from fusion? Believe it or not, unlike Star Trek, we'll be using steam and turbines to spin a generator. Tokamak reactors need a complex thermal blanket on top of the complex plasma containment. GF has cleverly bypassed this by making the reaction occur in the thermal blanket.

    Again, this is my opinion so it will be modded down.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.