Slashdot Mirror


The Hobbit and Game of Thrones Top Most Pirated Lists of 2013

DavidGilbert99 writes "Fantasy fans are clearly among the most prevalent downloaders of pirated material if the 2013 lists of most pirated films and TV shows is anything to go by. The Hobbit beat Django Unchained and Fast and Furious 6 while on TV, Game of Thrones saw off competition from Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead as the most pirated TV show. While this is clearly losing money for both industries, the US box office doesn't seem to be suffering too much as it is about to record its best year ever."

41 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Clearly losing money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... and then stating their high profits?

    Okay. Explain. How are they "clearly losing money"? Prove it.

    1. Re:Clearly losing money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't prove that piracy reduces revenue, because you have to assume the people pirating would have purchased the content if it were not available for free.

    2. Re:Clearly losing money? by tbuddy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is a running tenet in the entertainment industry that a download equals a lack of a sale. Common sense tells people that an unemployed basement dweller, third worlder who doesn't have a legitimate method to access content, or cheap soul who spends nothing on entertainment are lost causes for a sale.

      I wonder to what extent piracy is being cited on tax claims from these guys. Flawed logic could save them heaps a year.

    3. Re:Clearly losing money? by P-niiice · · Score: 3, Informative

      Piracy may have added more revenue than was 'lost' by the download. You'll never see the real numbers though to know either way or the other.

    4. Re:Clearly losing money? by pmontra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or first worlder that happen to live in a country where the content has not been distributed yet and don't want to wait for months or years or forever. Those piracy-afraid-companies should just bypass all the distributors and stream content directly to all the world at once.

    5. Re:Clearly losing money? by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More than that, it creates a network effect, fans in places where it would be none, some of which getting the paid content, and there is, also, associated revenues (dvd/extended versions, merchandising, being first in the queue for the next release/season).

      Your business don't exist in a vacuum, must take into account current reality and technology. Use that it can be copied and shared as an advantage, like Iron Maiden. After all, a good part of what defines us as humans is spreading memes, if you want to create a culture you must let it be distributed/copied/imitated/etc freely.

    6. Re:Clearly losing money? by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then again, I know plenty of "first worlders" who have ample ability to access the content, but still feel quite entitled to download stuff. There's people who will use an app every single day, yet would rather pirate it than pay 99 cents. People who will play an entire game that they pirated, and go way past the "I'm just trying it out" phase. Sure there are people with more legitimate reasons for pirating content, but there's a very sizable portion of people who just pirate because they are cheap. Also, I'd like to point out that not there's no show/movie/game/other-entertainment-thing that you just have to have. If they don't release the movie where you live, then just watch some other movie, or play some other game. Downloading it just gives the entertainment industry more reason (flawed reasoning or not) to tighten restrictions on content, or not sell it in the country where everyone is pirating it anyway.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    7. Re:Clearly losing money? by lennier1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      The same logic by which the NSA all but shoving a microphone up your ass has prevented trillions of terrorist attacks!

    8. Re:Clearly losing money? by tomhath · · Score: 2

      A good example of what you refer to is known as Donationware, basically an honor system where you get the content free and legal, but you are also politely asked to pay what you think it's worth to the author or donate to a worthy cause.

      It's a nice Utopian solution to distributing IP. But as far as I know there have only been a few content producers who have been able to make a living off it, and even they don't seem to stay at it for long.

    9. Re:Clearly losing money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I get probably 85% of my content legitimately. I pay for Hulu, Netflix, Amazon and a few other services. I own a roku. But some content I can't get without full on cable subscriptions. For those I hit the torrent sites.

      I'd gladly pay to get a season of game of thrones, boardwalk empire, etc as it was released in 1080p that was playable via plex or my roku. Just like music, once I could get the content in a unencumbered form I stopped 'stealing' my music.

      That said, there is also a lot of pirated content that is never viewed. For example. I watched the first season of GoT. I kept my rss feeder downloading GoT though all the remaining seasons, yet I've not yet watched it. Recently I was gifted the first 3 seasons of GoT on blueray so I deleted those downloads. I believe a lot of piracy works this way, large scripts that download content the script owner thinks he/she wants, but never actually consumes. I've deleted tons of crap I thought I'd like, downloaded entire seasons, watched 10 minutes and deleted the whole thing.

    10. Re:Clearly losing money? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 4, Funny
      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    11. Re:Clearly losing money? by evilRhino · · Score: 3, Informative

      These freetards are not going to the theaters or buying DVDs or whatever, and therefore it is not a lost sale.

      Actually, there is evidence that people that share files buy more than the average public.

    12. Re:Clearly losing money? by Baloroth · · Score: 2

      Yes, because in that scenario I end up without a car. If I "steal" a movie by downloading and then go see it in theaters/buy the DVD because of that, the studio/theater ends up with my money, and still has the movie in any case.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    13. Re: Clearly losing money? by Scowler · · Score: 2

      GoT is available on Netflix. Maybe not Netflix streaming, but it's certainly false you need a cable subscription to view it legit without purchasing it. I watched the first two seasons of GoT via Netflix.

    14. Re:Clearly losing money? by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Yep. Is there a legal way for me to send the Game Of Thrones people some money just because I feel like it?

      All they need to do is set up a paypal account or whatever and display it at the end of each episode. Don't they feel they're missing out by not doing that...?

      --
      No sig today...
    15. Re:Clearly losing money? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The price is not only money. If to pay 99 cents you also have to create an account, which means coming up with another weak password or just further compromising a weak password you use everywhere, and hand over a credit card number and your identification including your snail mail address, and an email address and perhaps hunt around to opt out of being put on several mailing lists, that's actually too high a price.

      If people could pay 99 cents without getting themselves identified, analyzed and targeted for advertising, or worse, punitive pricing, I'm sure more would. Suppose "a study shows that men who bought songs like Under My Thumb and Maxwell's Silver Hammer are more prone to domestic violence", and therefore they should have their insurance rates raised, and be put on a crime watch list. 99 cents is the least of the price one might pay for a few lousy songs.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    16. Re: Clearly losing money? by Scowler · · Score: 2

      "Socially relevant?" That's how low we've fallen to justify stealing content? It's less than a year, and the content itself doesn't actually change over those months of course. I enjoy that content just fine, regardless its age. And I'd rather be an antisocial troll than a thief.

    17. Re:Clearly losing money? by Nyder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because in that scenario I end up without a car. If I "steal" a movie by downloading and then go see it in theaters/buy the DVD because of that, the studio/theater ends up with my money, and still has the movie in any case.

      Yes, you deprived them of income by taking the movie without paying for it. The fact that they still have it available to distribute to someone else is irrelevant. If you later buy a DVD of it legitimately, that is a separate transaction and next to impossible to trace back to a pirated original viewing and also irrelevant for them to have to justify.

      What if i bought the DVD at a used DVD store? I'm still depriving the movie studio of their profits, since they won't get any on the used movie.

      I'm not sure you understand the concept that you aren't going to get profit on every copy of a movie that someone views, it's impossible.

      And no where is any company guaranteed profit from anything they make.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    18. Re:Clearly losing money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The same logic by which the NSA all but shoving a microphone up your ass has prevented trillions of terrorist attacks!

      Or apparently it hasn't, as people still say I've blown up a few bathrooms when they walk in.

    19. Re:Clearly losing money? by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Trying to dress up piracy as some sort of moral stance Against The Man is pathetic and sad. Pirating shows because you're cheap or broke is a fairly minor sin, but pretending its some sort of social protest is really childish.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    20. Re: Clearly losing money? by JudgeFurious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I "pirate" a lot of media. It's a mixed bag really and not all of it is just completely freeloading. Example: I download rips of movies I already own on DVD/BR. I'm lazy and it's quicker than ripping it myself. Some of the guys who do this are excellent at keeping as much quality as possible while getting a smaller file footprint. I have no talent for this so why bother? I download music that I own on a variety of formats. I'm not going to re-buy digital content. If I own an old scratchy LP I feel no shame in downloading perfect mp3 files of the material. I also download movies that I skipped at the theater because I thought they'd suck. From time to time I pay for a good one on BR after the fact but more often than not I don't. The reason I responded to you though was your mention of a "free trial". When it started I downloaded Game of Thrones and got hooked pretty quickly. It's a good show. More importantly though my wife got hooked on it. We now subscribe to HBO which I would have bet the farm was never going to happen. We own books that we would not have otherwise bought. While I don't go much past that she spends money on all kinds of other Game of Thrones related junk. That all started because through word of mouth I heard that the show was good and downloaded a few episodes.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
  2. Re:Bullshit by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only exception is Thrones. HBO's refusal to let that out via alternative means in a timely manner is probably costing them. However, fans of the show will soon buy it on blu-ray when it eventually hits the shelves.

    I haven't figured out why they won't just sell you an HBO Go subscription as a separate entity. They have a digital content distribution system in place. It has support on many different devices. Yet they still require that you buy their channel through a cable/satellite provider and THEN get access to it.

    Why not just have an HBO Go subscription for $10/month? They can cut out the middle man (cable companies) and get a lot more customers that only do internet based TV.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  3. Too long by RogueyWon · · Score: 2

    To start with a disclaimer: I haven't pirated The Hobbit (or indeed any other movies since my student days many, many years ago) and have no intention of doing so.

    But on the other hand, after sitting through the first one, there is no way on Earth I am going to sit through the second one in a cinema. If I ever do watch it (which is a bit 50/50 given what a bad adaptation I thought the first one was), it will be in the comfort of my own home in a format where I can pause and resume at will, breaking it up into more manageable chunks.

    I don't actually dislike going to the cinema; I'll happily sit through 2 hours or so of movie. But if you want me to go for a 3 hour+ bladder-bursting ass-numbing epic, then give me the opportunity to pause it for a while and go for a walk around in the middle.

    Hell, I can still just about remember when longer films used to have an intermission during showings in a cinema. I know that's not an idea that's popular in the days of cram-'em-in multiplexes, but it might be worth bringing back for films like these to lure people like me back to the theatres.

    1. Re:Too long by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      If [your sweatshirt] is stolen, when you return someone will likely be in your seat

      wearing your sweatshirt. Thieves are pretty brazen these days.

  4. (DRAMATIC SIGH) by LoRdTAW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Simple solution: Stop hiding your TV shows and films behind a wall of artificial scarcity. We have the internet which gives us instant access to whatever we want whenever we want. That has spoiled us and you (studios) haven't capitalized on this yet or are too damn slow.

    Put your film in theaters. Once it is no longer profitable at the box office then put it on youtube (not some proprietary bullshit site that only runs in IE or some other nonsense) for a discounted rate and allow multiple viewings. Don't rent me a fucking film for $2.99 and then only give me access for a few days at most. That is a rip off. Let me pay a few bucks for a month or two or three. Honestly how much money will you lose if you let people have the movie for three months? How many times in one month is someone going to watch a movie? This is especially important for childrens shows/movies where they might want to watch it a hundred times.

    TV shows, do what South Park does: Release the episode on both TV and the internet AT THE SAME TIME! Put a few commercials in there just like a regular TV episode and people will watch it. Or give them the option to pay a cheap monthly or yearly fee to watch commercial free. Id pay southpark studios a few bucks a month to watch their shows if I could see them all commercial free. If you are a premium show like Game of Thrones then do the same damn thing but for a fee. Let me watch an episode for a dollar and let me have access for a month or more. Or let me pay a few dollars to watch as many episodes as I would like for a month or so.

    People have enough of a burden trying to pay bills/make a living and you expect us to spend hundreds on cable TV, tickets and DVD/BR *every month*. No thanks, we have better things to spend our money on. Your content is simply a time waster when we want to relax for a bit or go out every now and then. We dont need it and I am not willing to pay the exorbitant amount demanded. Adapt or die.

    1. Re:(DRAMATIC SIGH) by brit74 · · Score: 2

      Simple solution: Stop hiding your TV shows and films behind a wall of artificial scarcity.

      So, the solution you're proposing to studios is "give everything away for free!!" Yeah, that sounds like a great solution. Seriously, does anyone on Slashdot think about the needs and desires of the studios, or are all "solutions" really just kneejerk strategies which result in consumers getting as much stuff as possible while paying nothing?

    2. Re:(DRAMATIC SIGH) by swillden · · Score: 2

      $2.99 to rent a film for 3 days is a fucking rip off?

      It's not so much that it's a ripoff, but that it deters rentals. It's just a stupid business practice.

      I often decide not to rent something when browsing because I'm not sure I have time to watch it before the rental period expires. I may or may not ever stumble across it again later when looking for something to watch. Give me multi-month access for $3, and I'll rent stuff on a whim. Make it viewable multiple times, and I'll rent even more, because I may rent stuff that I think I'm only marginally interested in but my family might want to see.

      On the other side, what's the potential loss? I've been renting movies in various formats for 30 years. I don't believe I have ever, in that entire time, rented a movie and then rented it again within a few months. If I have done it, it's definitely only been a very small number of times, a tiny, tiny fraction of the number of times I've rented. I don't think I'm unusual in this. So, shutting off access after a few days, or a single viewing, is not going to extract another rental fee from me.

      Back when I was renting physical media, there was a clear purpose for the short rental periods. They needed the tape or DVD back so they could rent it to someone else. With streaming media that issue is gone. The cost of streaming a movie to me is negligible, and there is no limit to the number of people they can rent to simultaneously. So if the content owner's goal is, as would seem logical, to extract the maximum possible amount of money from viewers, they should allow repeat viewings (which will hardly ever be used) and long rental periods -- not long enough that rental can be confused with purchase, but long enough that people don't have to think about whether they'll have time to watch it before the period expires.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:(DRAMATIC SIGH) by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      Here's the problem: HBO has very expensive carriage right deals with the major cable companies and satellite providers in the USA, deals that are very lucrative to HBO itself. If HBO were to make HBO Go no longer needing proof of a cable subscription, that will effectively kill that gigantic revenue stream and HBO will obviously not have the money to do shows like "Game of Thrones."

      It will take essentially an antitrust lawsuit to change this picture.

    4. Re: (DRAMATIC SIGH) by Scowler · · Score: 2

      Yeah, the wonderful "Internet" has lowered distribution costs of media, but production and marketing costs are higher than ever. In other words, Hollywood still needs "scarce" revenue models, regardless the fact that it's composed of all for-profit corporations in the first place, just to maintain its existing level of production standards. Now, nobody is forcing you to consume anything they make. You can buy nothing if you like. But recognize your whine is really short-sighted when looking at the whole media ecosystem at large.

  5. Here's Why by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Insightful
    A latecomer to the Thrones saga, I purchased the first two seasons in November of this year. I fell for the palace intrigue immediately, watched the first two seasons in a couple of weekends, and then discovered the 3rd, already filmed and telecast, season (with the friggin' dragon on the cover) isn't available until the middle of February.

    Are they 3D printing the CDs or what?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  6. Re:Bullshit by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's nothing "clearly losing money for both industries" about it.

    Of course not. That's the standard line. First you complain about piracy, how it's so bad for business, how you obviously lose billions, and next you post the best revenue and profits ever, showing that, on a per-person basis, people have actually spent MORE on movie tickets, CDs, DVDs, online services, etc, than the year before. Despite all that piracy. Or should I say, thanks to all that piracy?

  7. Re:Bullshit by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because in the US they want to be the middle man for others, they want to use HBO original series as the hook to get people subscribing to HBO so they can sell network time. In the nordic countries we have HBO Nordic which is a pure Internet solution similar to HBO Go, funny thing is that I subscribe but I still use my one-stop torrent shop to watch those shows as well.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  8. Re:Bullshit by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 2

    > Why not just have an HBO Go subscription for $10/month? They can cut out the middle man (cable companies) and get a lot more customers that only do internet based TV. Because they are the middle man; HBO is owned by Time Warner whose entire business model is packaging tons of crap you don't want with the few things that you do and yelling at the top of their lungs about what a great value it is.

  9. Re:Bullshit by the_other_chewey · · Score: 4, Informative

    I haven't figured out why they won't just sell you an HBO Go subscription as a separate entity. They have a digital content distribution system in place. It has support on many different devices. Yet they still require that you buy their channel through a cable/satellite provider and THEN get access to it.

    Why not just have an HBO Go subscription for $10/month? They can cut out the middle man (cable companies) and get a lot more customers that only do internet based TV.

    HBO doesn't want to cut out the middlemen, because doing so would actually lose
    them money (or at least not make them as much as one would expect, while at the
    same time seriously pissing off their current revenue sources):

    Why Doesn't HBO Allow Non-Cable Subscribers To Subscribe To HBO Go à la Hulu?

  10. Re:People Actually Pirated The Hobbit??? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

    The old saying was wrong. Old hobbits are not hard to break. Smeagol is as Smeagol does.

  11. Netflix DOES have Game of Thrones by Scowler · · Score: 2

    Netflix does carry GoT, that's how I watched the first two seasons of it. I will watch the third season as well once they get it.

  12. Re:People Actually Pirated The Hobbit??? by yodleboy · · Score: 2

    what would have made you happy? Michael Bay directing The Hobbit as a two hour explosion fest? You want to see shitting all over a beloved short novel? Try the Starship Troopers movie. Now, maybe 3 movies is a bit long, but at least it's being done by someone that cares about the source material. Did you ever think that sometimes the only way to sell this stuff to those sleazy execs is to give them a way to milk it?

    It's incredible that people will sit around and bitch about getting too much entertainment at a time when most studios would be happy to give you a 90 min stinker like the latest Conan remake for the same price.

  13. Re:Bullshit by Cereal+Box · · Score: 2

    You can't buy GoT on Blu-Ray where you live?

  14. Re:Makes perfect sense by zlives · · Score: 2

    just a counter point, back then people made things for money, now we copy things for money. the economy has changed and the rules changed with it. However i think its time for the rules to change yet again.

  15. Re:Bullshit by Cereal+Box · · Score: 2

    You have to cancel HBO with your cable company. Yes, you have to call up to cancel it, but it is by no means "nearly impossible". People do it all the time. Subscribe for the show, cancel when it's over. You may even be offered a couple extra months to not cancel.

    And couldn't you buy the Blu-Rays when they come out? Sounds like you have options, you just don't want to pursue them.

  16. Re: Bullshit by Scowler · · Score: 2

    So not stealing stuff is considered too old-fashioned? (Just how many lame excuses for piracy are in this forum today??)