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India Frees Itself of Polio

An anonymous reader writes "It's been three years since the last recorded polio case in India and health officials hope to officially certify India polio free in the next few weeks. 'Hamid Jafari, director of the WHO's polio-eradication campaign, says the agency's ambitious quest to stop all polio transmission by the end of 2014 is now within reach. If that is achieved, and no new cases crop up for three years, polio—like smallpox—will be officially banished from the planet. "India was one of the most important sources" from where the virus spread to other countries, said Dr. Jafari.'"

309 comments

  1. Excellent! by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These are fantastic news!

    1. Re:Excellent! by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Funny

      All it took was a single country to do the needful.

    2. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright everyone, let's all go down to the Ganges river and bath ourselves in shit now, cuz that's what we do here in India!

    3. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget to rape all the girls on the way there too!

    4. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you enjoy doing it - perhaps that's why you are bathing in it.

    5. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's rapists like you who sicken me.

    6. Re: Excellent! by masikh3193 · · Score: 1

      Sorry to disappoint you all but during my stay in India last month there where records of polio outbreak in Pakistan. There is still a lot of work to be done:(

    7. Re:Excellent! by UPi · · Score: 1

      I find humanity's ability to eradicate previously deadly and epidemic diseases to be something to wonder at. Personally I rate this little wonder of the world higher than the Moon landing.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_infectious_diseases

    8. Re: Excellent! by Threni · · Score: 1

      > during my stay in India last month there where records of polio outbreak in Pakistan

      India is not Pakistan. Unless you're suggesting that it was because you in India that Pakistan has an outbreak. Or perhaps you thought was important to tell us which country you were in when you heard the news. I'm in the UK, and this seems to be good news, but I imagine it's also good news if you hear about it anywhere.

    9. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, when they leave the police station after reporting the rape, rape them again!

      Maybe, after that, when they take a bus home, rape them one more time. You know, just one more for the road.

      And then be outraged when some woman enslaving her housekeeeper is arrested in the US, and go out on the streets protesting.

      (i'm not USian, btw)

    10. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here I just thought it was Diphtheria from the shit infested waters that did that.

    11. Re: Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably he meant Pakistan is next door. And possibility exists of getting reinfected. There does exist some cross border traffic.

      Anyway, we have been waiting for this excellent news. Have seen the brutal all out effort carried out, literally door-to-door, by various volunteers and the government.

    12. Re: Excellent! by masikh3193 · · Score: 2

      The story said polio is redicated from our planet (not in those words but something along those lines) Pakistan is a country on planet earth thus my comment. You are right, Pakistan is not India, they are two different countries who happen to be at war with each other. This is btw the main reason (sadly enough) for the recent outbreak of polio in Pakistan. Ironic isn't it! Kind regards, Masikh

    13. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, "these are" fantastic news for the 'vaccine' fraudsters, aren't 'they'...

      http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/28/polio-eradication-campaign.aspx

      "A paper published earlier this year in the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics should have made headlines around the globe, as it estimated there were 47,500 cases of a polio-like condition linked to children in India receiving repeated doses of oral polio vaccine in 2011 alone. The incidence of non-polio Accute Flaccid Paralysis (AFP) in India is now 12 times higher than expected and coincides with huge increases in OPV doses being given to children in the quest to “eradicate” wild type polio infection and paralysis."

      "Researchers reported:
              "while India has been polio-free for a year, there has been a huge increase in non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP). In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated. The principle of primum-non-nocere [First, do no harm] was violated." "

    14. Re:Excellent! by rmstar · · Score: 2

      These are fantastic news!

      Indeed. And it wasn't the free market that did it. Go figure.

    15. Re:Excellent! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Pssst! Buddy! There's no finer phlogiston on Allah's green Earth than what I have to sell you!

    16. Re:Excellent! by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      These are fantastic news!

      It is indeed, and if they want it to stick, they need to revoke Jenny McCarthy's visa immediately.

    17. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are fantastic news!

      Wow! Thank you. I never would have known this news was fantastic until you said so. +5 Insightful indeed.

    18. Re:Excellent! by the+gnat · · Score: 2

      I find humanity's ability to eradicate previously deadly and epidemic diseases to be something to wonder at. Personally I rate this little wonder of the world higher than the Moon landing.

      Seconded! The elimination of smallpox is probably the single greatest triumph of modern medicine; in the 20th century alone, it saved more lives than were lost in every war put together. And contrary to the claims of the racist naysayers who think we should have left epidemics alone so they could control third-world populations, people actually have fewer children when they're not worried about an appallingly high infant mortality rate.

    19. Re:Excellent! by JamieIanMacgregor · · Score: 1

      Issue has been resolved, please verify once.

    20. Re:Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      66 These are fantastic news!

      Indeed. And it wasn't the free market that did it. Go figure. 99

      Yet another boiler plate justification for totalitarianism, prove otherwise.

  2. But vaccinations give you autism by Swampash · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jenny McCarthy wouldn't lie to me!

    1. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by davester666 · · Score: 2

      they gave her brain damage and swollen breasts.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And thank God for that, just the way I like 'em!

    3. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only there was a way to make them stop talking about Jesus all the time...

    4. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You like your women with brain damage and swollen breasts? Ok...

    5. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Jenny McCarthy says vaccines put dangerous toxins in your body. Obviously, you don't want "dangerous toxins" even if it would protect you from horrible diseases. Now, if you'll excuse her, she needs to go get an injection of botox to prevent some wrinkles.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    6. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Nimey · · Score: 1

      He can't get intelligent girls, is what he's saying.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    7. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you've heard by now: her son never even had autism. He had been misdiagnosed.

    8. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... don't forget the photos of her smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol..

    9. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and eating BEEF!

  3. it'll be back by bloodhawk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the epidemic of stupid parents that refuse to immunise children nowadays it should not be long till many of the old virus's and diseases rear their ugly heads again.

    1. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given the epidemic of stupid parents that refuse to immunise children nowadays it should not be long till many of the old virus's and diseases rear their ugly heads again.

      I wouldn't call this 'good' news; but polio is sufficiently unpleasant to send your basic chickenshit first world antivaxxer running screaming to the nearest vaccination location (for most childhood diseases for which vaccines are available, you aren't helping your odds by playing at anti-vax; the serious disease effects are still somewhat more common than the vaccine side effects; but polio is a genuinely nasty customer).

      Thankfully it has no animal vectors (of any note in the wild, I'm sure you can buy a mouse model or something that is susceptible in the lab) so it mostly hangs out in areas so remote or underdeveloped that sheer logistical difficulty keeps vaccination efforts sporadic.

      The one nasty anti-vax angle with polio is, I'm ashamed to say, pretty much our fault: The CIA came up with a clever ruse to do some DNA gathering under the guise of a vaccination program (one for hepatitis B), and the subsequent revelation of this fact has not done much to quell the 'zOMG vaccines are a western and/or zionist conspiracy against muslims!!!' rumor mongering present in certain areas.

    2. Re:it'll be back by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Not if it's extinct.

    3. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if it's extinct.

      Depends on your definition of extinct. Even if no known cases of the disease for years, a vector still might be dormant, ready for comeback.

    4. Re:it'll be back by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      We don't need the old diseases to come back as drug resistant bacteria has the potential to kill modern medicine.
      Imagine getting a scratch on your hand and having to amputate because the doctors can't prevent infection..

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it would not be the first time someone caught a supposedly extinct disease. There are so many small pockets of humanity in remote regions of the world that it will be many decades before we can definitively claim it to be extinct.

    6. Re:it'll be back by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The old terrors of disease have been eradicated in developed countries for so long that even the cultural memory is fading. People do not fear a disease they know absolutely nothing of.

      Just ask people what the symptoms of cholora are. Most of them probably don't know, and that's still endemic in parts of the world.

    7. Re:it'll be back by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The CIA came up with a clever ruse

      The CIA endangers everybody on the planet with their little game(s) - 'clever' could only be applied superficially.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ok, they can just go to their local homeopathy practitioner!

    9. Re:it'll be back by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      i think it's like crazy diarrhea. doh!

    10. Re:it'll be back by mirix · · Score: 1

      Smallpox has been absent since the 70's, and hasn't show up yet... So if the premise is the same with polio, yes we can say that it is extinct... I think.

      I think it only exists in one CDC facility and one research / germ warfare facility in siberia, now.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    11. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In 2003, I saw cases of polio in the Nuba Mountains of Sudan. There was an active vaccination campaign, however, they were not able to reach everyone in the hills. One of the most depressing diseases to deal with in that environment. People die all the time from these diseases and the villagers believe in vaccination. It keeps their kids alive. Every time I meet an anti-vaccine idiot, the urge to throat punch them and remove them from the gene pool is almost......almost overpowering. I consider it child abuse.

    12. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hoped that the context of my being ashamed to mention it made it clear how much I didn't approve of putting infectious disease control in the line of fire.

      I'd say, though, that you might be more accurate to say that it's a myopically clever plan, rather than a superficially clever one. Within the narrow, barely relevant, context of 'so, we need a DNA sample from a well guarded private compound in a country where most of the locals hate our guts and going through the official channels would mean somebody tipping off our suspect within hours, any ideas?' A fake vaccination program is among the better available answers.

      In the broader context of the fact that there's never been a man alive nearly as dangerous as some second rate infectious diseases, it's about the dumbest answer imaginable. (Extra demerits awarded for hampering control of polio, which is right on the edge of being finally eradicated, and for doing so in a region where any remaining infections are atypically likely to spread via the more downmarket Hajj trips to assorted other areas where vaccination programs are nontrivial).

      Somehow, none of this is terribly out of character for the CIA, unfortunately.

    13. Re:it'll be back by stoploss · · Score: 2

      Smallpox has been absent since the 70's, and hasn't show up yet... So if the premise is the same with polio, yes we can say that it is extinct... I think.

      I think it only exists in one CDC facility and one research / germ warfare facility in siberia, now.

      Meh. I'm sure it exists in other places as well. For example, the sequence for smallpox is well-known, so it could be reconstructed by a government even if those samples were destroyed. Furthermore, there's always the random serendipity of as-yet undiscovered samples:
      Century-old smallpox scabs in N.M. envelope (found in a library, of all places...)

      However, I concur that the disease is extinct in the wild, and, barring malfeasance, there will never be another epidemic of smallpox.

    14. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh did you not see Homeland? Those games are starting peace talks between Iran and US -- Go Claire Danes!

    15. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's dysentery.

    16. Re:it'll be back by Enter+the+Shoggoth · · Score: 1

      Smallpox has been absent since the 70's, and hasn't show up yet... So if the premise is the same with polio, yes we can say that it is extinct... I think.

      I think it only exists in one CDC facility and one research / germ warfare facility in siberia, now.

      Meh. I'm sure it exists in other places as well. For example, the sequence for smallpox is well-known, so it could be reconstructed by a government even if those samples were destroyed. Furthermore, there's always the random serendipity of as-yet undiscovered samples:
      Century-old smallpox scabs in N.M. envelope (found in a library, of all places...)

      However, I concur that the disease is extinct in the wild, and, barring malfeasance, there will never be another epidemic of smallpox.

      Interesting that the FBI sent the envelope to the CDC via mail... aside from being illegal I would've thought that this would of at least raised a few eye brows at the CDC.

      --
      Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
      Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
    17. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh god you don't want to know what infectious disease researchers send through the mail!

    18. Re:it'll be back by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Just slap a thick layer of honey on it. Problem solved.

      One day we'll figure out that all the cool things modern medicine can 'fix' is mainly stuff that modern life created. Everything else is pretty much soap and not shitting in your water.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    19. Re:it'll be back by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Have you met people with side effects from the polio vaccine? Random paralysis, extreme weakness, nerves that burn out after a while, internal organ problems as muscles weaken or freeze. Sometimes I wonder if it would be almost kinder to just let the disease kill the weak and not have them suffer the rest of their lives. Othertimes, I'm happy I'm alive and I've managed to restore most proper motion to my body, but I've still always got that nagging fear that something is just going to collapse on me again and it'll be another slow long climb back.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    20. Re:it'll be back by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is definitely the biggest problem with vaccines. Their very success is their biggest weakness. As people don't personally remember diseases like measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc, they mentally minimize the severity of it. Whooping cough? Sounds like you just have a bad cough for a week or two and then you're fine, right? Then they hear FUD about vaccines that leads to them mentally overestimating the risk of the vaccines. Before you know it you have a person who is thinking of injecting their child with this horrible mix of highly dangerous chemicals just to prevent their child from maybe coughing for a few days. They make the perfectly rational (in their mind, given their flawed assumptions) decision to forego vaccinations.

      Sadly, the people who suffer are children like Dana Elizabeth McCaffery who die because they were too young to get the vaccine or people who have valid medical reasons for not getting the vaccine (immune system issues, allergies, etc). These people rely on the rest of us keeping herd immunity up. As the anti-vax movement grows, herd immunity breaks down and more people will die. The good news is that, as more people die, the anti-vax movement should be self-limiting. Who's going to seriously listen to Jenny McCarthy railing about vaccines if a hundred thousand people come down with measles? The bad news is that many, many people will get sick and either die or suffer permanent injury from vaccine-preventable diseases before this happens.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    21. Re:it'll be back by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously think that "modern life" created polio, whooping cough, smallpox, etc? Yes, sanitation is a good first step in preventing disease, but it isn't absolute. It doesn't prevent against all diseases all the time. Vaccination - or where vaccination isn't an option, proper medical treatment - is an important second step.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    22. Re:it'll be back by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Doctors don't even recognize these diseases anymore. I had whooping cough as a medical student, nobody ever picked up on it. I didn't figure it out myself until I was studying for final exams in pediatrics and really looked at the symptom list.

    23. Re:it'll be back by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's both. Lots of diseases have that as a symptom. It can be life-threatening without treatment - prevents the body absorbing water, leading to severe dehydration.

    24. Re:it'll be back by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously not understand the word 'mainly'?

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    25. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The simple solution is to treat such illnesses as child abuse.

      If a child has no medical reason to be exempted from a vaccine, the parent refused to let that child be vaccinated, and the child comes down with that illness - The law should view this as the parent willingly, knowingly, and purposely infecting the child with that disease.

      Take the child away and into protective services. Take everything of financial value from the parents to pay what it can for the child's future medical needs, and imprison the parents for the damage they inflicted upon that child.

      Once enough of these child abusers and child murderers are put properly behind bars and the financial results of their choices forced to conclusion, while they might not be happy about the situation the majority will be forced to stop.

    26. Re:it'll be back by andy1307 · · Score: 1

      Playboy isn't that popular in India so I don't think we need to be worried...

    27. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one nasty anti-vax angle with polio is, I'm ashamed to say, pretty much our fault: The CIA came up with a clever ruse to do some DNA gathering under the guise of a vaccination program (one for hepatitis B), and the subsequent revelation of this fact has not done much to quell the 'zOMG vaccines are a western and/or zionist conspiracy against muslims!!!' rumor mongering present in certain areas.

      This is unreasonable. They could simply say "no bloody westerners after this cheating, - we want proper muslim doctors only." They'd incur all sorts of delays this way - but they could certainly have a vaccination programme as well as "no western spies" if they wanted to. But they didn't want to - they went the idiot route instead.

    28. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the Wikipedia article:

      In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were made in community sanitation, including better sewage disposal and clean water supplies. These changes drastically increased the proportion of children and adults at risk of paralytic polio infection, by reducing childhood exposure and immunity to the disease.

      So Jmc23 is both right and wrong.

    29. Re:it'll be back by cusco · · Score: 1

      If the Pentagon can dig up corpses out of the Alaska permafrost to find samples of the Spanish Influenza strain then I'm not optimistic that we'll see a definitive end to some of these. The sick bastards are still working on creating new bioweapons today. When Commander-In-Chief Clinton directly ordered the Pentagon to stop work on bioweapons in the 1990s they just changed the name of the programs and moved the budget to another line item in the Black Budget. Didn't even move the researchers to different cubicles.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    30. Re:it'll be back by cusco · · Score: 2

      I've met people dealing with the side effects of the polio they contracted 40+ years ago. There are a LOT more people with post-polio syndrome then there are people who have had deleterious effects from the vaccine, and a lot of them are going to die from PPS.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    31. Re:it'll be back by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      It's not that I don't understand "mainly", but I disagree that most of what modern medicine fixes is due to problems caused by modern life. People have been suffering and dying of illnesses for thousands of years. For most of that time, treating the issues was a little better than a stab in the dark. You could quarantine the diseased but this broke down if the person transmits the disease before showing symptoms.

      Modern medicine allowed us to finally understand why people got sick and how to prevent or (in some cases) cure illnesses. It was modern medicine that said that disease was spread by microorganisms that would be destroyed by sanitation techniques. Before the germ theory, people thought that illness just appeared due to environmental conditions which could be identified by a bad smell. It wasn't thought that disease could pass from person to person. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory ) Under this theory, a surgeon operating on a patient had no need to wash his hands because he wasn't going to make his patient sick from the operation. Once it became accepted that germs (bacteria/viruses) were the cause of most illness, washing hands was accepted, sanitation improved, and disease rates dropped.

      Many diseases today aren't so much caused by modern life as they are problems of people not dying of other causes. People are going to die eventually no matter what medical care they have. If you were to fully cure the top 10 causes of death today, people would begin dying in larger numbers of causes that are much rarer right now. In addition, modern diagnosis lets us pinpoint the cause of the disease more accurately. In the past, people might not have been said to have died of cancer because they either died of something else before cancer claimed them or because the cancer wasn't diagnosed and the cause of death was misattributed to something else.

      Are there problems that modern life has caused? Definitely. Our lifestyle of eating horrible foods and sitting around all day causes many issues. However, going on medical care alone, I'd much rather live in the present day than in any other point in history.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    32. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      There have been some attempts to get medical staff and, where possible, vaccine manufacturing capacity sourced from 'non-western' areas to shut people up (if memory serves, Indonesia has provided a bunch). The trick, unfortunately, is twofold: One, for reasons I don't fully understand, antivaxers gonna antivax, so the goalposts move like they've got legs the world over, more or less regardless of what arguments they find themselves moving between. I have no idea why this is; but you can't reason somebody out of something they didn't reason themselves into, I suppose.

      Secondly, when the CIA did their operation, they didn't send John 'Whitey' Smith, cornfed farmboy from Boise, to go around vaccinating Pakistani children. They did a bit of string-pulling and behind the scenes work and (while in retrospect it was remarked that there were certain organizational irregularities), the entire medical part of the project was done by local medical staff operating without any clue about the real objective of the vaccination drive, or even that there was an objective other than delivering a bunch of hep B vaccines.

      I assume that the Pakistani medical establishment is a touch jumpier about any project that has an odd flavor to it these days; but the CIA-vaccination-conspiracy that actually did happen used local dupes, so local staff only go so far in assuaging concerns.

    33. Re:it'll be back by n7ytd · · Score: 1

      I've never met anyone with side effects from the polio vaccine that I'm aware of, but I have met people who had polio as children before vaccination became widespread.

      Not to downplay the problems that you've had from the vaccine, but do you really think the world on whole was better off before the vaccine? Mortality rates are very high, and those that survive are affected for life.

      As a father of 3 (soon to be 5), I'll roll the dice with the vaccine.

    34. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once upon a time, those vaccines were live, that is they contained the actual virus. There were complications, obviously. Today the probability of complications is reduced.

    35. Re:it'll be back by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      It's hard to weigh percent death versus percent suffering.

      However, I'd have to say we're probably better off with the vaccines. It just makes sense that if I'm sensitive enough to have an adverse affect from the vaccine I would probably have been dead without it.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    36. Re:it'll be back by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Then you don't know much about history.

      There are periods of times where we had good sanitation and no pollution and a god given right to sunshine. It is nearly impossible now to feed yourself and not poison yourself at the same time.

      I won't bother to respond to the other regurgitated propaganda.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    37. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government is your god
      Government is your king
      Government is your lord and savior
      Worship it to entreat its favor
      Government is your source for every thing..
      Government, your god and king!

    38. Re:it'll be back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solution: destroy the needle by heat after injecting the patient. Do it in front of them so they can see that there's no way their blood can be analyzed. Doesn't help with anti-vax types e.g. AQ and other Salafi.

  4. Re:That's what they want you to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Considering Polio has been around since before the U.S. Government even existed that is a damn fine effort to have invented it.

  5. It is still a tough fight ahead by crabel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Current information on the fight against polio can be found here: http://www.polioeradication.org/Dataandmonitoring/Poliothisweek.aspx While India is polio-free, the worldwide cases actually increased last year. Well, let's hope for the best, that the optimistic assessment of Dr. Jafari is true.

  6. Fantastic by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Great job on the part of India, the Gates foundation, and all involved. For polio to be eradicated forever would be a great thing.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, "frees itself" is a little misleading, considering the massive amount of external aid it took to accomplish it. It's certainly a fantastic step toward a better future when your people can have one less life-threatening fear to face.

    2. Re:Fantastic by Alomex · · Score: 1

      Indian philanthropists were heavily involved. I sat next to the wife of one of them on a transatlantic flight**. She was a very nice and unassuming lady who proceeded to tell me all about the importance of the polio eradication campaign. Here' s a quote from Rotary International:

      Indian philanthropists, including industrialist Harshad R. Mehta of Rosy Blue Group; Aditya Birla Groupâ(TM)s Rajashree Birla; and steel magnate Lakshmi Mittalâ(TM)s wife Usha Mittal, have contributed millions of dollars through Rotary International to win the countryâ(TM)s fight against polio.

      ** I was upgraded to first class, upper deck of a Jumbo 747.

    3. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great job on the part of India, the Gates foundation, and all involved. For polio to be eradicated forever would be a great thing.

      Not to take anything away from the Gates Foundation, but it took two decades of dedicated effort from ordinary Indians at every level to achieve this.

      Bill Gates' article in the Wall Street Journal last year needs to be read:
      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181753580988412

    4. Re:Fantastic by symbolset · · Score: 2

      By all means let us thank the government of India, its politicians, bureaucrats and workers. Also the philanthropists throughout India and around the world. Also the tireless workers, some facing grave danger to bring vaccine to children in cities and remote areas.

      If the world is to enjoy freedom from this vile virus let us not forget to thank the countless mothers who walked for miles and stood online for hours to get their children the vaccine. These are heros to future generations as well.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  7. Good on them! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the Polio Eradication Website:

    Polio remains endemic in three countries – Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan. Until poliovirus transmission is interrupted in these countries, all countries remain at risk of importation of polio, especially in the ‘poliovirus importation belt’ of countries from west Africa to the Horn of Africa.

    Only 372 cases worldwide last year! If we're careful, if we can convince certain political groups that polio is not an appropriate weapon of terrorism(*), we'll soon eliminate it completely.

    Interestingly, polio is monitored from the sewage system in India. Since that appears to work for polio, people are thinking about using this method to monitor other things: other diseases, weapons manufacture, drug manufacture, and so on.

    (*) Not making this up - some groups in Afghanistan think that spreading polio is a good way to get back at the Great Satan.

    1. Re:Good on them! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's a common rumor in Afganistan that the Polio vaccine is actually a potent lifetime contraceptive, distributed by western powers in order to keep Muslim women from breeding in readyness for a planned Christian invasion.

      The most unbelieveable part of that is the idea of a government planning so far ahead.

    2. Re:Good on them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The US and other western countries have done this for quite some time now (15-20 years in California that I know of), particularly for monitoring drug consumption of the population as a whole. I'm not sure if the resulting information is made readily available to the public, but there is a government agency out there somewhere collecting this information and using it for something important enough to substantiate the costs involved.

      Source: One of my clients engineers the big compressors that are used to separate waste in sewage plants. Once separated, samples are taken and tested for various compounds.

      They also engineer subsystems that are designed specifically to collect 'unintentional waste of reasonable value' - also known as jewelry. Your wedding ring that went down the shower drain? It didn't get dumped into the ocean. It's most likely that your local sewage plant found it and melted it down for the value of the metal and gems. I found out about this something like ten years ago, and that year my local plant had gained over $400k from reclaimed jewelry. So it seems that sewage treatment really is a dirty business.

    3. Re:Good on them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not as baseless as you think though since the CIA did use vaccination programs to gather DNA.

    4. Re:Good on them! by ruir · · Score: 1

      If you think governments dont plan many things many decades ahead, you are naive.

    5. Re:Good on them! by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Welll played Sir.

    6. Re:Good on them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if you think they are remotely accurate, so are you.

    7. Re:Good on them! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      They plan fifty years ahead, but the plans get thrown away and rewritten from scratch every two years.

    8. Re:Good on them! by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      What rock do you live under? (oh, right, the concrete slab of your parent's house)

      Part of my thesis was searching for a mechanism to prevent women in africa from getting pregnant while they're breastfeeding. The entire goal being able to control their population WITHOUT their knowledge or acceptance.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    9. Re:Good on them! by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      if we can convince certain political groups that polio is not an appropriate weapon of terrorism, we'll soon eliminate it completely...Not making this up - some groups in Afghanistan think that spreading polio is a good way to get back at the Great Satan.

      Even if it's difficult to sell the 'appropriate' part, which implies telling them there are lines they shouldn't cross (which I don't think is necessarily possible in militant religious groups of any denomination), I don't understand how we can't convince them that it's not effective. Everyone in the western world is vaccinated against polio, and they can't infect us. They can infect their nearby locations in a weird attempt to go, "nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, your vaccination efforts are all for naught!" That strategy isn't likely to gain them much goodwill among the locals though, as they all start noticing that nobody who got vaccinated is getting the disease. They don't even need to notice this by themselves, it's a great vector for propaganda.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    10. Re:Good on them! by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Not making this up - some groups in Afghanistan think that spreading polio is a good way to get back at the Great Satan.

      Sounds like a genius plan. Spread a disease which is almost universally vaccinated against within the USA, but not within your own community. That will get them far...

    11. Re:Good on them! by cusco · · Score: 1

      Most women are infertile while breast feeding, which is why a lot of women, like my mother-in-law, have children every three years. Within a year of weaning one kid the next one is conceived, thanks to the Vatican convincing a billion people that birth control is the work of the devil.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    12. Re:Good on them! by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      ...and these are women from the african continent? No, no, they aren't.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    13. Re:Good on them! by cusco · · Score: 1

      African women are somehow different than women in the rest of the world? To my (admittedly limited) knowledge women are women everywhere, and breast feeding inhibits fertility.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    14. Re:Good on them! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Do you realize their inefficiency is just a show to rob us blind, right?

    15. Re:Good on them! by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      3-6 months is about the period of infertility in africa. If they were having kids 3 years apart we wouldn't have been looking for a means to extend the period of infertility. It probably has something to do with diet and the bodies survival response but you know us westerners, we seem to think a pill is the solution for everything.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  8. Hey - let us feel good for a change! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Given the epidemic of stupid parents that refuse to immunise children nowadays it should not be long till many of the old virus's and diseases rear their ugly heads again.

    Can't we feel good about doing something noble for a change? Even for a minute?

    Have a heart, guy!

    1. Re:Hey - let us feel good for a change! by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      It is honestly great work by many dedicated people that have lead to this. I applaud them without reserve. I just think it is sad that so many poorly informed people work to undermine these great efforts.

    2. Re:Hey - let us feel good for a change! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. We don't get to feel good UNTIL THE JOB IS DONE! 100% DONE!

      We don't take a break at every milestone to congratulate ourselves and pass out the participation ribbons.

      These diseases are serious business. And it's fucking shameful we have allowed a bunch of anti-vax nutjobs to throw a monkey wrench into elliminating them from the planet based on their personal beliefs. Their antics put people at serious risk of dying.

      It should be a criminal offense to spread the anti-vax propaganda. Perhaps worthy of the death penalty. Because that's what they are spreading. Death for those who cannot take the vaccines for one legitimate reason or another.

      When these diseases are 99.9999999999999999% gone. And everyone who can be vaccinated, is. THEN we get to sit back and congratulate ourselves. Until then you're wasting time. And potentially causing people to die.

    3. Re:Hey - let us feel good for a change! by Argon · · Score: 1

      +1. I don't know if the majority of Slashdot readers really understand the scale of this effort. Indian administration is generally poor at a lot of things - but the Pulse Polio Programme (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_Polio) has been a true success. Most middle and upper class population rely on private practitioners for their medical needs because of overcrowding, poor serviced and rampant corruption at Govt hospitals. However, participation in this particular programme was close to 100%. My daughter was administered the vaccine in a booth at the corner of our street for every Pulse Polio drive and I continue to be surprised how efficiently this is done. The only comparable exercise is the way elections are run in the country.

  9. Meanwhile, in Syria... by Y-Crate · · Score: 4, Informative

    The WSJ:

    There also have been recent outbreaks in the Horn of Africa and Syria, although there are signs that those cases will soon be mopped up.

    NPR:

    The World Health Organization has declared a polio emergency in Syria.

    After being free of the crippling disease for more than a decade, Syria recorded 10 confirmed cases of polio in October. Now the outbreak has grown to 17 confirmed cases, the WHO said last week. And the virus has spread to four cities, including a war-torn suburb near the capital of Damascus.

    The Syrian government has pledged to immunize all Syrian children under age 5. But wartime politics is getting in the way. And the outbreak is expected to grow.

    "Actually, it is spreading quickly," says Dr. Mohammed Al Saad in Gaziantep, Turkey, near the northern border of Syria. There are now more than 60 suspected cases, he says, with new ones reported each day.

    1. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

      Obviously imported by extremists from Afghanistan.

    2. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because to a lot of them any vaccinations are the work of the US Imperialists and only go to spread the work of Satan.
      These people want to turn the clock back to the time of Mohammed and force everyone to live as we did in the 6th/7th/8th Century.

    3. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That sounds reasonable, since Afghanistan and Pakistan are the main places that still have Polio, and fighters from those countries have been going to Afghanistan.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by Jmc23 · · Score: 2

      unfortunately they think that way because of all the imperialistic behaviour of the US as it's spreads the work of Satan.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    5. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by cusco · · Score: 1

      And those are the people the US State Department and the Pentagon are arming and financing. I sometimes wonder if anyone in the DC area thinks more than one election cycle ahead.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  10. This news makes FDR roll in his grave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get it? "roll"?

  11. Now Only If Slashdot Freed Itself of BETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    cause fark you for shoving me into beta pages.

  12. Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by shri · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As much as everyone likes to hate Bill Gates - India and a number of other countries owe him (and the global Rotary community) for helping in this effort. More on End Polio.

    1. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      As much as everyone likes to hate Bill Gates - India and a number of other countries owe him (and the global Rotary community) for helping in this effort. More on End Polio.

      I don't necessarily disagree... but this effort predates the founding of the Gates Foundation by a few decades. We were hearing about efforts to eradicate Polio back in the 1970s!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that is definitely true. however you would still just be hearing about "Efforts" rather than success if it wasn't for people like him. many thousands of people have huge hearts and great intentions but sadly it still takes a huge bucket load of money and co-ordination to achieve something like this.

    3. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "As much as everyone likes to hate Bill Gates"

      yup, and i'll keep on hating...

    4. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 0

      You must be a blast at house parties.

      --
      throw new NoSignatureException();
    5. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes the effort pre-dates the Gates Foundation. But the latest efforts have been partly funded by the Gates Foundation with a challenge grant. The effort was running out of gas until Bill and Melinda stepped up. The greatest thanks should go to the rotarians and health workers in the third world countries where these efforts continue. The logistics required to deliver doses to millions of children in third world conditions is massive.

  13. Briiliant !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well done India

  14. Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Next door to India, Polio is making a come back.

    Same thing also happening in Nigeria, as well as in Mali.

    The common thread in the three locations that is helping Polio making a revival is Islam.

    Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

    In Pakistan, they actually KILL health workers trying to eradicate Polio. Same thing happen in Nigeria, where Boko Haram has threaten (and sometimes kill) people trying to stop the spread of Polio.

    1. Re:Not so fast ! by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 2

      If you think Islam = Al Quaeda (sp?) then that is true. Al Q's rejection of the West goes that far.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    2. Re:Not so fast ! by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      Thank you! You are a master communicator. I think your arguments come across especially rationally with the use of bold, italics and CAPS. All signs of truth and reasoned positions. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    3. Re:Not so fast ! by rvw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

      The former two catholic popes did similar stuff with condoms and HIV in Africa and South America. I hope this one has more common sense.

    4. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Informative

      From TFA:

      "Religious leaders were persuaded to join the effort. "The calls that went out to the Muslim faithful every Friday contained reminders to take children to the immunization booths," said Mr. Kapur of Rotary International. "These were the people initially most skeptical of the vaccines but, once convinced, they became our biggest agents of change."

      So it's not Islam in general that's anti-polio. Indeed, you don't get those craziness in any Muslim culture with well-educated populace.

      The people who are killing health workers administering vaccines in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are not just Muslims. They are Salafi, an extremely fundamentalist Muslim sect that espouses strict Koranic literalism and advocates for a return to the practices of the "original Islam" (which, basically, translates to society and culture frozen as it was in the times of Muhammad). Taliban, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda, Caucasus Emirate etc - these are all Salafi.

    5. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you have a source or are you are retard?

      My god how far has the propaganda that Islam is as harmless as the women's institute gone. Surely you must have read about all the polio workers killed?

    6. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

      The former two catholic popes did similar stuff with condoms and HIV in Africa and South America. I hope this one has more common sense.

      Funny, I can't remember the last pope murdering health workers. Even if he did - does that make it right for Muslims to do it too?

    7. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      . Indeed, you don't get those craziness in any Muslim culture with well-educated populace

      No they just fly planes into buildings

    8. Re:Not so fast ! by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the reasons for that was some IDIOT in the CIA apparently using a polio vaccination program as a cover for a covert operation in Pakistan. There's some lines that should not be crossed. Otherwise it makes us little better than the people that turn kids into walking bombs.

    9. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      "Well-educated" implies, among other things, the ability to rationally think about one's own religion.

    10. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      "Well-educated" implies, among other things, the ability to rationally think about one's own religion.

      A strange definition, but if you go with it "Well educated Muslim" is an oxymoron. Also you would have to be clear that you count people with university degrees, doctors, engineers as "not well educated" when you say that Muslims carry out terrorist attacks because they are not well educated. Otherwise people might get the impression that the solution would be improving their level of education.

      I would suggest that for the purposes of communication yo just say the same as i do; Islam suppresses any thought or descent and makes people do bad things. Its a lot clearer than redefining "well educated" and then claiming that muslims are not!

    11. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 0, Troll

      Well-educated fundamentalist Muslim is an oxymoron; just as well-educated Christian fundamentalist is. Education is supposed to impart the ability to critically think (indeed, many argue that it is the main point of it).

      And yes, Christian fundies are just as dangerous. They just don't happen to be dominant anywhere, thankfully.

    12. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Um, I know it's a lot of trouble to go to, but you could start by looking at the pretty colourful pictures in the original WSJ article, which points out that polio is still endemic in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Nigeria, and that aid workers in Muslim areas have been attacked.

    13. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Bible Belt is nowhere then? I wish...

    14. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comments are perfect for this....

      The fact remains that unless they keep up with vacs., this will be a continuing problem, regardless of the corrupt "W.H.O's" certification.. And lets not forget the countries that have bio weapons that use smallpox and, who knows what else, to cripple or wipe out at least 50%+ of the population..

      While this is a small victory for India, they still have tons of work ahead.

    15. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think he said anything about AQ, then you, sir, are and idiot.

    16. Re:Not so fast ! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      The common thread in the three locations that is helping Polio making a revival is Islam.

      Right. That's the only thing these three countries have in common. That explains why all those other muslim majority countries are also seeing polio rates increase. Oh wait...

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    17. Re:Not so fast ! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the reasons for that was some IDIOT in the CIA apparently using a polio vaccination program as a cover for a covert operation in Pakistan.

      It was actually hep-b vax and it was specifically intended to get info on bin laden in abbotobad. Not clear if it was helpful or not.

      http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/the_fake_vaccination_scheme_absent_from_the_bin_laden_hunt_debates/

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    18. Re:Not so fast ! by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Well-educated fundamentalist Muslim is an oxymoron

      You do realize that religion, not just fundamentalist religion, is negatively correlated with both intelligence and education, right?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re: Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nice to see the Internet Islam Defense Force is out in full strength on Slashdot...

    20. Re:Not so fast ! by AdamColley · · Score: 2

      I suspect you'll hope in vain.

      The Americans are responsible for the attacks on doctors

      Their fake vaccine programme that preceded their extra judicial murder of Osama Bin Laden is what has caused the distrust.

      You cannot place all the blame on the brown people, the united states has become an international bully preying on those with resources it desires, that's the real problem but don't expect to hear much about that.

    21. Re:Not so fast ! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      And if one airline passenger from one of these countries happens to arrive in the US as a carrier, you're not going to want to let your children play with others this summer. Anti-vax cultists are steadily chipping away at our herd immunity.

    22. Re:Not so fast ! by Altrag · · Score: 1

      if you go with it "Well educated Muslim" is an oxymoron

      Not really. They could have thought rationally about their religion and decided that their faith was well-based. "Well educated" means you've been given the tools (and presumably have the intelligence) to make choices for yourself -- it does not put any requirements on the actual choice you end up making.

      Everyone (including atheists) like to assume that their group has made the right choice and that anyone with enough brains would do the same, when in fact there is no "right" choice. At least not until one of these deities gets around to revisiting our planet and showing up all the people who chose a different deity.

    23. Re:Not so fast ! by rvw · · Score: 2

      The Americans are responsible for the attacks on doctors

      Their fake vaccine programme that preceded their extra judicial murder of Osama Bin Laden is what has caused the distrust.

      These murders have been going on long before Bin Laden was killed. Islamic fundamentalists kill not so much doctors, but want to destroy Western institutions in their country. Western medicine, schools for girls, tv stations that air western tv series, etc.

    24. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why not just include that in the first post? You have two options when posting "facts" - wait for people to ask and get shitty with linkypoos, or just post linkypoos with the "fact".

    25. Re:Not so fast ! by rvw · · Score: 1

      Funny, I can't remember the last pope murdering health workers. Even if he did - does that make it right for Muslims to do it too?

      No it does not make it right. Nothing funny about this. The pope didn't murder health workers. Pope John Paul II is however directly responsible for many dead people in Africa, by forbidding the use of condoms. All this in the name of a corrupt and inmensely rich institution that claims to bring the word of god.

    26. Re:Not so fast ! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't think that this only takes place in Africa and South America. My wife used to work for a private all-girls Catholic junior high school in New York. One year, she was teaching health and needed to cover sex education. They brought in someone else to teach it (which, honestly, my wife welcomed since teaching sex ed in a private Catholic school is kind of like grabbing a dangling power line and hoping it isn't live). This person proceeded to tell the girls a bunch of lies like all condoms have tiny holes in them that let sperm and viruses through.

      My wife complained to the principal. Telling the girls not to have sex before marriage because God says so would be one thing. It is a religious school, after all. But spreading blatant lies like this is just wrong. The principal was shocked (or acted so) and promised to look into it. We don't know if this speaker was ever brought back because soon after this we had our second child and my wife quit her job to stay at home with him.

      Still, the fact that there's someone who sells their services going from school to school spreading lies to scare kids into not having sex is frustrating. All this will do is cause kids to have unprotected sex which will lead to teen pregnancy and STDs. Even if they find out the truth, it means they'll be less likely to trust what an adult tells them and might not listen to another piece of advice that could have been life-saving.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    27. Re:Not so fast ! by Nimey · · Score: 1

      You ought to learn correct grammar before pronouncing someone else an idiot.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    28. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone who practices Islam to any extent is vulnerable. The only Muzzies who are not like your ones in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Nigeria are ones in de-Islamized countries - like the ex-Soviet 'stans'. Muslims there won't do a thing, since they've been insulated from the real Islam not just by the Soviets, but by their current regimes as well.

      'Salafi' is just another 'no true scotsman' adjective used to deflect the criticism of Muslims.

    29. Re:Not so fast ! by stdarg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was a real polio vaccination program, and the covert operation caught the #1 terrorist (of whom Pakistan claims they had no knowledge, of course).

      You'd think the so-called "mainstream Muslims" (remember how they tell us only 0.0001% of Muslims are terrorists or support terrorists, terrorism is against Islam, etc) would be happy about both things. Nope!

    30. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the article you linked:

      After news emerged that the US' Central Intelligence Agency employed a doctor to run a fake hepatitis B vaccination programme in an effort to find Osama bin Laden, conspiracy theories about health workers' activities have abounded - such as claims that vaccinators mark houses to be targeted by US drones. Polio workers have been accused of being CIA operatives, and the campaign has suffered incalculable damage.

      So, it's not simply "crazy Mooslim religionists" causing this --- it's the US and the West's history of undermining all trust in "helpful aid programs" by regularly using such things for nefarious ends. So, the people who sneak into your homes to target them for drone strikes want to stick needles in your kids --- surely, you'd trust them, because science, right? "Islam" isn't the main problem here with undermining trust in medical aid.

    31. Re:Not so fast ! by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      So it's not Islam in general that's anti-polio. Indeed, you don't get those craziness in any Muslim culture with well-educated populace.

      The people who are killing health workers administering vaccines in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are not just Muslims. They are Salafi, an extremely fundamentalist Muslim sect that espouses strict Koranic literalism and advocates for a return to the practices of the "original Islam" (which, basically, translates to society and culture frozen as it was in the times of Muhammad). Taliban, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda, Caucasus Emirate etc - these are all Salafi.

      Education and enlightenment are the enemy of "the faithful" in every religion.

    32. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Bush went to Yale.

    33. Re:Not so fast ! by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      The Church also forbids sex outside of marriage. If people chose not to follow the no sex rule, then why do you think Church rules would prevent someone from using a condom?

      Maybe you mean husbands giving their faithful wives aids? If the man isn't using a condom with prostitutes, do you really think he would use one with his wife?

    34. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Pope forbidding the use of condoms kept people from using them, why didn't forbidding fornication and drug abuse keep people from doing those things?

    35. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The people who are killing health workers administering vaccines in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are not just Muslims. They are Salafi, an extremely fundamentalist Muslim sect that espouses strict Koranic literalism and advocates for a return to the practices of the "original Islam" (which, basically, translates to society and culture frozen as it was in the times of Muhammad). Taliban, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda, Caucasus Emirate etc - these are all Salafi.

      And the Christian sects in the US who oppose vaccinations are also extremist fundamentalists--funny how that works ;-)

    36. Re:Not so fast ! by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Somehow people will manage to blame Americans, anyway. Except the Americans, they'll blame Muslims.

    37. Re:Not so fast ! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nothing to do with Al Quaeda

      AQ is a big part of it, and for GOOD REASON. The United States used health workers, including people administering polio vaccine, to collect intelligence against AQ and the Taliban. Some AQ people were killed as a result. The US has openly admitted doing this. They did it in Abbottadad, to try to local Osama bin Laden (the film "Zero Dark Thirty" showed health workers collecting intelligence). If you don't want health workers targeted in a war, then don't use them to target others.

    38. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, you don't get those craziness in any Muslim culture with well-educated populace.

      And which culture is that?

      In the UK, you have Muslims refusing to use alcohol-based hand sanitizer: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202192/Muslims-refuse-use-alcohol-based-hand-gels-religious-beliefs.html

      The Muslim dietary laws ban the consumption of alcohol, not rubbing it on your hands.

    39. Re:Not so fast ! by guytoronto · · Score: 1

      The people who are killing health workers ... are not just Muslims. They are Salafi, an extremely fundamentalist Muslim sect...

      So...when is a Muslim not just a Muslim? When he's a fundamentalist Muslim?

      If you are going to state the those doing the killings are "not just Muslims", it's usually best to give an example of others doing killings as well who aren't Muslims.

    40. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't think that this only takes place in Africa and South America. My wife used to work for a private all-girls Catholic junior high school in New York. One year, she was teaching health and needed to cover sex education. They brought in someone else to teach it (which, honestly, my wife welcomed since teaching sex ed in a private Catholic school is kind of like grabbing a dangling power line and hoping it isn't live). This person proceeded to tell the girls a bunch of lies like all condoms have tiny holes in them that let sperm and viruses through.

      My wife complained to the principal. Telling the girls not to have sex before marriage because God says so would be one thing. It is a religious school, after all. But spreading blatant lies like this is just wrong. The principal was shocked (or acted so) and promised to look into it. We don't know if this speaker was ever brought back because soon after this we had our second child and my wife quit her job to stay at home with him.

      Still, the fact that there's someone who sells their services going from school to school spreading lies to scare kids into not having sex is frustrating. All this will do is cause kids to have unprotected sex which will lead to teen pregnancy and STDs. Even if they find out the truth, it means they'll be less likely to trust what an adult tells them and might not listen to another piece of advice that could have been life-saving.

      And yet you and your wife are not assholes for being Catholic.

    41. Re:Not so fast ! by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Roman Catholic church has these fellows called "Priests", who actually expect all good Catholics to confess their specific sins, and recieve counseling and do penance for each one as set by the priest. It often defaults to a scoring system, where sex gets you points, then planning for the sex in advance by buying condoms gets you more. Some people therefore feel less guilty, and are treated as officially less guilty, if they can say they didn't plan the sex in advance, it just happened. Since the sex itself can be a powerful motivator, doing the least 'sins' that still result in the reward is often the choice, instead of 'not sinning' at all.
                  The question is, even under RC doctrine, why is sex a sin and doing something that indicates you planned it in advance a greater sin, instead of sex itself being a sin, but trying to reduce bad consequences such as disease spread to yourself OR YOUR PARTNER not a sin? Why is it assumed that using a condom is either to avoid preganacy (again, itself a sin), or to protect only yourself from the "God given consequences" of sin, but never out of genuine feeling for your partner? Why are priests specifically trained to discount that possibility?

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    42. Re:Not so fast ! by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I know that JW's oppose vaccinations, but I can't think of any other sect that does, which still calls itself "christian". Would you really consider JW's extreme fundamentalists, though? When I think of fundamentalists, I always tend to think of baptist, pentecostal, and Lutheran. Although I can only say based on personal experience, since I know quite a few people of all of those denominations, I'd dare say that there are no more detractors against vaccination among those with a fundamentalist baptist background, for instance, than there are among atheists. In fact, I've met several in the latter category, but I can't think of any I've ever met in the former. Nonetheless, almost all0 of the people that I've ever met who are opposed to vaccination are JW's.

    43. Re:Not so fast ! by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      Jenny McCarthy is a Muslim? I never knew!

    44. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The right wing religious parties in Pakistan were against polio vaccination waay before that...

    45. Re:Not so fast ! by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      So...when is a Muslim not just a Muslim? When he's a fundamentalist Muslim?

      If you are going to state the those doing the killings are "not just Muslims", it's usually best to give an example of others doing killings as well who aren't Muslims.

      Hmm, I know a certain tribe that shoots rockets from drones on wedding parties and other innocents with disgusting regularity. And then there is a tribe that keeps another tribe in a concentration camp and kills random groups of inmates when one of the inmates attacks them.

      Both of these tribes are most certainly not Muslims, and they have a much better propaganda apparatus.

    46. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying that the extremists are not Muslims is an excuse for the rest of the Muslim community to ignore the problem and not act on it. Same thing with the Christian sects here: if they are too extreme and don't adhere to most important parts of the theology of the state church, they get separated from the state church and lose their government funding that way. But unless they go arming themselves as an organization, organizing themselves in the form of a military organization, abusing children, stealing property or doing other illegal things, they are really not bothered as that would be violation of the constitution. They would still be called Christians as long as they believe the selected teachings of the role of Jesus.

    47. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AQ is a big part of it, and for GOOD REASON. /p>

      Well - no. Not a good reason, not even from a military/guerilla standpoint. Of course the Al Quaeda does not want U.S. health workers or anyone with western symphaties. Especially not after the incident mentioned. But that is not a reason to stop vaccination programs. They could demand only doctors belonging to their own faith - islamic countries like Saudi or Pakistan has sufficiently good doctors. They could even demand to have medicines handed over and do the vaccinations themselves.

      But no, they had to block the effort completely. It makes no sense from any viewpoint. (Even the super-cynical idea of keeping the polio around as a "weapon" won't work for them - not when all their enemies are vaccinated. But at least they'll have slightly fewer suicide bombers this way...)

    48. Re:Not so fast ! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      They could demand only doctors belonging to their own faith

      The health workers working for the CIA were muslims.

      islamic countries like Saudi or Pakistan has sufficiently good doctors.

      This is astonishingly ignorant. The government of Saudi Arabia is the PRIMARY target of AQ. AQ's number one reason for attacking the USA on 9/11 was our support for Saudi Arabia. To suggest that they would/should trust Saudis is absurd.

      They could even demand to have medicines handed over and do the vaccinations themselves.

      So all they need to do is ask, and the legitimate governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan will hand over health administration to a terrorist organization? Sure, whatever.

    49. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

      The former two catholic popes did similar stuff with condoms and HIV in Africa and South America. I hope this one has more common sense.

      Funny, I can't remember the last pope murdering health workers. Even if he did - does that make it right for Muslims to do it too?

      That really depends on how you look at it - if you make it your personal mission to ban flotation devices and someone drowns, even if it isn't a legal "murder" you're still just as morally accountable. The difference is that the Pope is much more politically correct about violence.

    50. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, I do. Unfortunately, we're not yet at the point where well-educated == atheist. Still a few more decades.

    51. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      They don't run the country.

    52. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      There is no specific Christian sect that opposes vaccinations, but a lot of evangelical Christian fundies in US think it's some kind of government conspiracy to make their kids pliable or something (presumably for brainwashing in public schools). So it's not religious in a sense of "Jesus said no", but it's basically the same reasoning that Taliban used to ban polio in Afghanistan ("Western devils trying to sterilize our women").

    53. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Due to the Church's influence, condom supplies are limited, and even the idea of teaching people about contraceptives is often forbidden.

      People generally can figure out sex on their own, the usage of condoms, or the reasons for them? Takes a bit more work.

      Or do you think they had no influence?

    54. Re:Not so fast ! by ediron2 · · Score: 2

      > why is ... trying to reduce bad consequences such as disease... not a sin?

      Personally, I think it has to do with God writing doctrine before we discovered bacteria. WHich makes me want to put airquotes around the word God.

    55. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may be fortunate enough to live in Canada. Unfortunately, a lot of us live in the country that they do run (and, even worse on some individual state levels, where they have a complete stranglehold).

    56. Re:Not so fast ! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      It kept some people from using them, just like those other rules keep some people from doing those things.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    57. Re:Not so fast ! by sjames · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, my Muslim neighbors have all had their polio vaccine. Of course that's because the CIA didn't send spies pretending to be health workers to give them their vaccines.

      Try vaccinating U.S. children by sending a man dressed as a creepy clown around in a beat up white van offering candy and see how well it goes.

    58. Re:Not so fast ! by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Because he didn't wait until the 21st century to tell people his word? Er, what?

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    59. Re:Not so fast ! by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      *late 17th century. Whatever.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    60. Re:Not so fast ! by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      I think it's a much better argument that fundamentalists are against vaccinations... (Muslim or Christian.)

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    61. Re:Not so fast ! by airdweller · · Score: 1

      "Well, Bush went to Yale."

      Well, I once went to a church. Didn't get religious. Really liked the organ music and a couple of girls though.

    62. Re:Not so fast ! by davidannis · · Score: 1

      Their fake vaccine programme that preceded their extra judicial murder of Osama Bin Laden is what has caused the distrust.

      In fact, there have been problems with Muslim opposition to vaccination, including opposition from the Taliban since long before the U.S. killed Bin Laden.

      But even with the express support of political leaders, polio workers have been kidnapped, beaten, and assassinated.[57] In February 2007, physician Abdul Ghani, who was in charge of polio immunizations in a key area of disease occurrence in northern Pakistan, was killed in a terrorist bombing.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication

      In fact Muslim suspicion of vaccines has been a problem for over a decade, causing vaccinations programs to be suspended repeatedly.

      However, even if the U.S. disguising an intelligence worker was the cause of the suspicion, would you excuse the killing of firemen by AQ if the U.S. had disguised somebody as a fireman or do people have an obligation to support society and civilization?

    63. Re:Not so fast ! by JamieIanMacgregor · · Score: 1

      Not so sure about 'slightly fewer' but 'slightly slower' might work.

    64. Re:Not so fast ! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Citation badly needed. Over half of all scientists adhere to some religion, and only about 10-20% of the world's population is atheist.

      There was a study done a few years ago (I think I saw it here) that showed that the hippocampus of Catholics, Protestants, and agnostics were normal, while fundamentalists and atheists had a smaller than normal hippocampus.

      The hippocampus belongs to the limbic system and plays important roles in the consolidation of information from short-term memory to long-term memory and spatial navigation.

      So again, citation needed BADLY.

    65. Re:Not so fast ! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Education and enlightenment are the enemy of "the faithful" in every religion.

      On the contrary; Islam, Judism, and Christianity all share the same old testament, which reads

      The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
              2. To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
              3. To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
              4. To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
              5. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
              6. To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

      "...fools despise wisdom and instruction."

      And enlightenment is the very goal of Bhuddism and Hinduism. You're being led astray by looking at a tiny subset of various religions, and miss the fact that unreligious people will use religion for their own foul ends. "Beware wolves dressed in sheep's clothing."

      Before you pontificate about religion, first learn what you're talking about.

    66. Re: Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypocrite

    67. Re:Not so fast ! by Copid · · Score: 1

      Over half of all scientists adhere to some religion...

      Without getting into whether the OP's claim is meaningful, I'm pretty sure that the statistic you just threw out is not really super supportive of your point. If the idea is that scientists = educated/smart, the fact that they have such a low rate of religiosity should give you pause. I mean, half?

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    68. Re: Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hypocrite -n- a term used by atheists to belittle theists when the latter fail to live by its moral code.

      Atheism kills. 1.0E8 can't be wrong.

    69. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that the "real" Jesus is the one where he is made to oppose individual liberty, private property and voluntary exchange.

      This is what happens when one is shielded from market forces. The entitlement mentality creeps in.

    70. Re:Not so fast ! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Nothing to do with Al Quaeda

      AQ is a big part of it, and for GOOD REASON.

      Islamist hatred of the USA predates the existence of Al Quaeda by some decades. When the last Al Quaeda operative is dead and landing in installments on the landscape, there will still be Islamist hatred of the USA.

      So then you kill all the rest of the Islamists.

      And then you find out there are non-Islamists who hate the USA and Americans.

      Have a nice rest of your life.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    71. Re:Not so fast ! by DeathToBill · · Score: 1

      Um, er, wait, you what? The former two catholic popes did similar stuff to murdering health workers?

      --
      Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
    72. Re:Not so fast ! by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you missed the quotes around "the faithful". That term has a rather specific meaning, and it certainly does not encompass every "believer" in this or that religion. Still, religions, (those with "revealed" dogma, at least) by their very nature frequently require to people to believe things that are not true. That's a built-in lever for manipulating those who can't (or won't) know any better.

  15. At constant risk by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    India will still be at constant risk. This modern secular country is right next to a muzzy hell-hole where attacks on polio workers are frequent. Among the many other things that Islam forbids they have now decided that polio vaccines are unislamic.

    yet again this (literally) diabolical 'religion' brings death and suffering to the world.

    1. Re:At constant risk by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Funny

      Criticises religion, "literally" places blame on satan. :)

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:At constant risk by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Luckily for them, the India-Pakistan border is already a heavily fortified one.

    3. Re:At constant risk by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 2

      India will still be at constant risk. This modern secular country is right next to a muzzy hell-hole where attacks on polio workers are frequent.

      Depressingly, Pakistani muslims are correct in thinking that vaccination programs may be controlled by western governments. The CIA used a fake vaccination program (not polio) to aid in the hunt for Bin Laden.

      Among the many other things that Islam forbids they have now decided that polio vaccines are unislamic.

      Islam does not forbid vaccination.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    4. Re:At constant risk by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Depressingly, Pakistani muslims are correct in thinking that vaccination programs may be controlled by western governments. The CIA used a fake vaccination program (not polio) to aid in the hunt for Bin Laden.

      So by that reckoning if a con man pretends to be a meter reader then I would be justified in killing someone working for the electric company!

    5. Re:At constant risk by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The CIA used a fake vaccination program (not polio) to aid in the hunt for Bin Laden.

      So by that reckoning if a con man pretends to be a meter reader then I would be justified in killing someone working for the electric company!

      That is a staggeringly stupid thing to say. It's more like a government assassin was disguised as a meter reader, with the blessing of the meter readers office. You would be justified in being suspicious of every meter reader in the future, and of blowing their back out if they made a move towards you that looked like an attack. Indeed, you'd be an idiot not to stay on your guard around them at all times.

      PG&E and local fire departments have both in the past been conned into spying on citizens' activity on their own land on behalf of law enforcement here in Northern California, you might be able to guess why. As a result, both were getting shot at. Both set strict no-spying policies, and the shooting stopped.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:At constant risk by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      That is a staggeringly stupid thing to say. It's more like a government assassin was disguised as a meter reader, with the blessing of the meter readers office .

      Citation needed - this contradicts the source you provide and its link to the Guardian that says that it was a "fake" program in a wealthy area that would not qualify for free vaccinations. I would hope that "fake" here just means only they were pretending to be part of the eradication program but were not, and that the actual injections were real!

    7. Re:At constant risk by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Citation needed - this contradicts the source you provide and its link to the Guardian that says that it was a "fake" program in a wealthy area that would not qualify for free vaccinations. I would hope that "fake" here just means only they were pretending to be part of the eradication program but were not, and that the actual injections were real!

      The actual inspections by PG&E and fire departments were real, too. They were collecting real information about fire hazards. That wasn't their primary purpose, though, as proven by a lack of contact attempts and willfully crossing marked property boundaries without a warrant. It doesn't actually matter if the vaccinations were fake.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:At constant risk by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Criticizes a religion, you mean.

    9. Re:At constant risk by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      a) Meter readers are rarely trying to inject things int your kids.
      b) According to the NRA, if a stranger is wandering around your property under false pretenses you ought to be allowed to defend yourself, particularly from government overreach. What do you think the 2nd Amendment is for?

    10. Re:At constant risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he places the blame on something diabolical, or devil-like. The word "devil" literally means "slanderer". I'm not sure it's an accurate label for this. These anti-vax Muslims aren't slandering anyone with this particular campaign.

      It would be more accurate to say that they're "satanic", as the word "satan" means "resister" (someone who resists an authority, not the electronic component, thus the "er" ending instead of "or"). These people are actively resisting polio vaccination for their own (incorrect) reasons, to the detriment of the greater good of everyone. That makes them literally satanic.

      The rebellious angel given the name "satan the devil" in the Bible has no recorded original name. (The name "Lucifer" comes from the scripture that describes how he deceives people into thinking he's an "angel of light", appearing to be good when he's really misleading them into a self-destructive path.) The only recorded name for him now basically translates to "resister and slanderer". This same "satan the devil" is the "wicked one" that has the whole world of mankind under his power. It should be no surprise that wicked men do wicked things just like their wicked master.

    11. Re:At constant risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some extremists oppose vaccinations so Islam opposes vaccinations? By that logic many Muslims support vaccinations so Islam supports vaccinations.

      Did I just blow your mind by exposing your self-contradicting argument?

      And I know you want to use the term "muzzy" to signify your contempt for Muslims but it just makes you sound stupid.

  16. Re:That's what they want you to think by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

    I doubt they would have patented it because then their work would be public. But I have no doubt they have reserves of purified polio in underground bunkers. Although you have to wonder if this is would be an effective wartime weapon. Surely something faster-acting and more challenging to inoculate against would be a better choice.

  17. not enough MS articles today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Matthew 6:3

    "Instruction about Giving

    â¦2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

    1. Re:not enough MS articles today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could not give a shit whether they are giving from the goodness of their hearts or because they see a potential tax dodge and are trying to buy their way into heaven. All that matters is they have given and for that I thank them, the intent behind there generosity is irrelevant to me and to the millions of lives they have saved.

    2. Re:not enough MS articles today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what a sad petty life you must lead to think that the people being saved

  18. See the light? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why did God striken children with polio? Why? Because the would have gone to hell anyway is why. Better to get them before they do the devil's bidding.

  19. Only time will tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The virus itself will not be gone for a long time though. It can still be easily found even in the western world. For example in Finland there have been numerous cases of polio virus among wastewaters in the larger cities. We are safe only as long as the virus does not mutate beyond our current vaccines...

    1. Re:Only time will tell by jones_supa · · Score: 2
    2. Re:Only time will tell by gnoshi · · Score: 1

      We are safe only as long as the virus does not mutate beyond our current vaccines...

      (From my understand) a key part of making sure that it doesn't mutate is having everyone properly vaccinated. If people catch it and thus provide a place to replicate, it gives it more opportunity to mutate.
      That said, I'm not a virologist.

  20. NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Paper from: Indian J Med Ethics. 2012 Apr-Jun;9(2):114-7

    Polio programme: let us declare victory and move on

    "while India has been polio-free for a year, there has been a huge increase in non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP). In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated. The principle of primum-non-nocere was violated. "

    1. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I knew someone would bring up that one guy who wrote a paper in the Indian medical ethics journal which contained no data to substantiate the claims.
      Of course, you could look at another paper discussing polio vaccination and surveillance in India which says that "[t]he programme [of polio vaccination] includes surveillance of acute flaccid paralysis (AFP) to detect and diagnose cases of polio at early stage. Under this surveillance, over 40,000 cases of AFP are reported annually since 2007 regardless of the number of actual polio cases".
      Could it be that perhaps the correlation between vaccination and NPAFP was because the surveillance was part of the vaccination programme and the temporal relationship was not inherently vaccination -> NFAFP.

      So maybe it is time to, as the paper suggests, move the fuck on.

    2. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      You need to understand that the NPAFP they're writing about is every instance of acute flaccid paralysis detected by the polio monitoring system in that country, including all the ones associated with polio, and all of the ones associated with other diseases that are well known to have AFP as a syndrome. NPAFP isn't a real thing, it's an editorial construct of that opinion piece.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 0

      "Could it be that perhaps the correlation between vaccination and NPAFP was because the surveillance was part of the vaccination programme and the temporal relationship was not inherently vaccination -> NFAFP."

      You can speculate all you want, since the paper you cited was not designed to test your conjecture. It was an unrelated qualitative study, designed to "We conducted a qualitative research to explore care and support for children with AFP after their diagnosis." They merely interviewed "parents of children with polio (17), with non-polio AFP (9), healthcare providers (40), and key informants from community including international and government officers, religious leaders, community leaders, journalists, and academics (21)".

      Some facts that contradict your speculation: It is the systematic AFP surveillance for 10 years before the polio vaccinations campaign in that very state Uttar Pradesh that established the 25-fold increase in AFP following these vaccinations, and 35-fold increase in another polio test state, Bihar. (cf. [1] pp.115-116).

      Another interesting quote from the same paper [1] p. 116:

      We have seen how polio, that was not a priority for public health in India, was made the target for attempted eradication with a token donation of $ 0.02 billion. The Government of India nally had to fund this hugely expensive programme, which cost the country 100 times more than the value of the initial grant.

      So, the way it works is that Gates buys pharma stocks, then bribes few officials in India for $0.02 billion to make their country spend 100 times more on the program. Of course, the pharma makes big bucks not only on the vaccines, but far more on life-long "management" of the diseases they caused, all the while Bill's pharma stocks go up. Having been scammed of intellectual property by Microsoft in mid-1990s, I can see that Bill Gates hasn't changed his "ethics" one bit after moving into the "charity" business. It's same old Bill Gates.

      -- Reference

      [1] "Indian J Med Ethics. 2012 Apr-Jun;9(2):114-7"].
                    (full text pdf found via Google)

    4. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 2

      It was an unrelated qualitative study, designed to "We conducted a qualitative research to explore care and support for children with AFP after their diagnosis."

      I'm aware of that. I wasn't claiming that was the focus of the paper. The point was that the paper provided information about the coincident testing for NPAFP and vaccination, and thus the fact that they would occur together is not evidence for NPAFP causing NPAFP. Which would be why that quoted part didn't include such a claim and was on another line.
      Just for fun, though, we have non-polio enteroviruses detected in numerous stool samples of those experiencing AFP and such enteroviruses can be associated with NPAFP. Seems like an possible cause for some of those cases.
      There is also this article in 'The Hindi':

      The non-polio AFP rate was not correlated with the number of oral vaccine doses that were administered, countered the WHO Country Office in its response. The largest number of oral vaccine doses given in India was in 2004, which had the lowest non-polio AFP rate in the last eight years. Moreover, although the number of oral vaccine doses given in the country had shown a continuous decline since 2007, the non-polio AFP rate had increased during the same period. In Bihar and U.P. too, there were similar trends of reduced oral vaccine doses and rising AFP rates during 2007-2011.

      Maybe I'm not making this clear about the paper you're citing. It is a paper that makes big claims and provides no evidence. It's opinion. It's opinion, and an opinion that I have not seen replicated anywhere else, and that I have never seen supported by any other paper, ever. The comment to The Hindi by the WHO country office is in direct contradiction to the claims made in that paper (and for good reason: they were rebutting the paper).

      Another interesting quote from the same paper [1] p. 116:

      We have seen how polio, that was not a priority for public health in India, was made the target for attempted eradication with a token donation of $ 0.02 billion. The Government of India nally had to fund this hugely expensive programme, which cost the country 100 times more than the value of the initial grant.

      It could have cost 40 bazillion times the value of the original grant, and that wouldn't make one iota of difference to the relationship between the polio vaccine and NPAFP.

      So, the way it works is that Gates buys pharma stocks, then bribes few officials in India for $0.02 billion to make their country spend 100 times more on the program. Of course, the pharma makes big bucks not only on the vaccines, but far more on life-long "management" of the diseases they caused, all the while Bill's pharma stocks go up. Having been scammed of intellectual property by Microsoft in mid-1990s, I can see that Bill Gates hasn't changed his "ethics" one bit after moving into the "charity" business. It's same old Bill Gates.

      And thus, he caught the bus to crazy-town.

      NPAFP is a genuine problem, but it is a genuine problem that would be better addressed by addressing NPAFP rather than hanging off the words of one paper by two doctors in one country-specific medical ethics journal with no supporting evidence.

    5. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Totally.
      Citation 1: a lot of people have been vaccinated
      Citation 2: it has cost lost of monies
      Citation 3: it cost the US some monies too
      Citation 4: oh, and some of Bill's monies also
      Citation 5: Rotary too
      Citation 6: new WHO name-and-shame policy
      Citation 7, 8: an acronym exists which no-one knows the origin of ...
      Citation 22: Bill really, really wants polio gone. Seriously, he's been campaigning. ...
      Citation 25: the first kind of relevant one to their claims, but doesn't actually seem to say what they say it does
      Citation 26: Provides alternative explanation for their interpretation of Citation 25
      Citation 27-28: Don't actually speak to the possible relationship and vaccine at all, but rather say that NPAFP is more dangerous than polio (loosely)
      Citation 29: my personal favorite. Data which shows that in regions with number of doses, and cases of NPAFP. The winning characteristic is certainly that the claimed result is true, if you cherry-pick the regions for which it is true. i.e. if you look over all the regions and across times then you do find what they claim in two regions: the ones they present.

      I'm winding it up there. The first of the 40 citations which is really relevant to the claimed connection between the vaccine and NPAFP is citation 29.
      Citations 31+ likewise appear to not actually lend any support to the claim of an association between the vaccine and NPAFP, but rather point out that India has high rates of NPAFP (which is consistent with some of these being caused by enteroviruses spread via the fecal-oral route).

      In summary: the paper remains bollocks, and virtually all of the 40 citations actually have 3/8 of FA to do with supporting their claim.

    6. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 0

      You should take it up with the referees for the peer reviewed journal if you believe your objections have merit. Maybe they will retract it if you send them your opinion backed by the above list.

    7. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 2

      Pwned.

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    8. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 1

      A good idea, but the journal no longer appears to exist.
      Their old site is still hosted over at Hostgator. Well, maybe it is their old site. It contains 'Lorem ipsum' text.
      The last cache from Archive.org was September 2013.

    9. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you need to take a class on how to use Google. I found the real journal in about 10 seconds (instead of your suspicious, bare IP, possibly set to collect visitors' IPs). The paper I cited is in this issue (pdf from the journal site, not paywalled).

    10. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 1

      Maybe you need to take a class on how to use Google. I found the real journal in about 10 seconds

      Actually, the problem is that domain name doesn't resolve for me, even on the authoritative name server (see dig output below).

      (instead of your suspicious, bare IP, possibly set to collect visitors' IPs).

      Yeah, because I want your IP address so I can... something?

      Dig output:
      # ; <<>> DiG 9.8.3-P1 <<>> @NS1.SITELUTIONS.COM www.issuesinmedicalethics.org.
      # ; (1 server found)
      # ;; global options: +cmd
      # ;; Got answer:
      # ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15395
      # ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
      # ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available

      # ;; QUESTION SECTION:
      # ;www.issuesinmedicalethics.org. IN A

      # ;; ANSWER SECTION:
      # www.issuesinmedicalethics.org. 86400 IN CNAME issuesinmedicalethics.org.

      # ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
      # issuesinmedicalethics.org. 1 IN SOA ns1.sitelutions.com. drjessy.lycos.com. 16 28000 7200 604800 1

      # ;; Query time: 259 msec
      # ;; SERVER: 67.208.74.19#53(67.208.74.19)
      # ;; WHEN: Tue Jan 14 10:59:31 2014
      # ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 130

      # ; <<>> DiG 9.8.3-P1 <<>> @NS1.SITELUTIONS.COM issuesinmedicalethics.org.
      # ; (1 server found)
      # ;; global options: +cmd
      # ;; Got answer:
      # ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 62497
      # ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
      # ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available

      # ;; QUESTION SECTION:
      # ;issuesinmedicalethics.org. IN A

      # ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
      # issuesinmedicalethics.org. 1 IN SOA ns1.sitelutions.com. drjessy.lycos.com. 16 28000 7200 604800 1

      # ;; Query time: 259 msec
      # ;; SERVER: 67.208.74.19#53(67.208.74.19)
      # ;; WHEN: Tue Jan 14 10:59:53 2014
      # ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 112

    11. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis"
      you don't know what that means, do you?
      Also, it's an opinion piece with no evidence or citations at all.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 2

      You may have not read the full text pdf, since I was quoting from a peer reviewed paper which had 40 citations backing up all figures and facts stated in the paper.

  21. Re:Are you that *RETARD* you are looking for ? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't make a claim and then expect the skeptics to find your evidence for you.

  22. Re:That's what they want you to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    U.S. government have reserves of polio. THey invented and patented it.

    Considering Polio has been around since before the U.S. Government even existed that is a damn fine effort to have invented it.

    oh sorry - I was thinking of polo mints

  23. Re:Are you that *RETARD* you are looking for ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you so retarded that you do not know how to google for information yourself ?

    You have the burden of proof here.

  24. Re:Are you that *RETARD* you are looking for ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a general rule, allowing others to provide biased sources for you may not be a wise choice. Searching for your own evidence might indeed be the best course of action.

  25. endangered species by Tom · · Score: 1

    Finally an entry on the extinct species list that we can actually be proud of.

    Polio is one nasty disease and its (almost) eradication is one of the bravest examples of human accomplishment and proof of what things our grandparents thought impossible we can achieve if we work together for a change.

    Unfortunately, once again, religion is the final obstacle in mankinds road to a better world. If they create an eradication of religion program next, sign me up.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  26. Quietnet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quietnet: Simple chat program using near ultrasonic frequencies.

    "Simple chat program using near ultrasonic frequencies. Works without Wifi or Bluetooth and won't show up in a pcap.

    Note: If you can clearly hear the send script working then your speakers may not be high quality enough to produce sounds in the near ultrasonic range.
    Usage

    run python send.py in one terminal window and python listen.py in another. Text you input into the send.py window should appear (after a delay) in the listen.py window.

    Warning: May annoy some animals and humans."[1]

    https://github.com/Katee/quietnet
    [1] https://kate.io/

  27. The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Well-educated" implies, among other things, the ability to rationally think about one's own religion.

    Fact: Many Islamic Terrorists were college educated !

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14bergen.html?_r=0

    "We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree"

    The 1993 attack on World Trade Center

    "The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education"

    Of the 9/11 attack

    "The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina . We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college"

    They were educated in colleges in America as well as in Europe. If they still can't THINK RATIONALLY after getting their college education in WESTERN UNIVERSITIES, who is to blame ?

    The Western Universities or that bloody religion of Islam ?

    1. Re:The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Well-educated" implies, among other things, the ability to rationally think about one's own religion.

      Fact: Many Islamic Terrorists were college educated !

      http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14bergen.html?_r=0

      "We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree"

      The 1993 attack on World Trade Center

      "The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education"

      Of the 9/11 attack

      "The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina . We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college"

      They were educated in colleges in America as well as in Europe. If they still can't THINK RATIONALLY after getting their college education in WESTERN UNIVERSITIES, who is to blame ?

      The Western Universities or that bloody religion of Islam ?

      Some people's thinking is so strange. Muslims with a University education commit acts of terrorism. Muslims without a University education commit acts of terrorism. So ... lets redefine "well educated" to mean thinking critically about religion and claim that the common factor is that "uneducated" commit acts of terrorism

    2. Re:The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people's thinking is so strange. Muslims with a University education commit acts of terrorism. Muslims without a University education commit acts of terrorism. So ... lets redefine "well educated" to mean thinking critically about religion and claim that the common factor is that "uneducated" commit acts of terrorism

      There is a name for them - Apologists.

      They will do everything within their power to apologize for Islam, even to the extend of doing totally ridiculous irrational acts, such as that guy who tried to redefine the term "EDUCATED".

      The irrational way of the Islamist apologists aren't that far removed from the irrational thinking of the Islamic terrorists, and the common link between the two, again, is the word ISLAM !

    3. Re: The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please read a book. That some Muslims committed crimes no more means all Muslims are criminals than saying an American committed a crime therefore all Americans are criminals (repeat with any broad social group, e.g. scientist). See how ignorant bigotry is now? I'd recommend anything by Aristotle to read, you are welcome.

    4. Re:The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is conceivable that they would have committed their terrorist acts without their western education, but without their religion they would have no motivation to do so. Therefore the answer to you question of who is to blame should be clear.

      That said, I don't think western education does a good job to teaching critical skills in general, so their is certainly room for improvement.

    5. Re: The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another apologist. Here's a ham sandwich for you! [cue shove-in-mouth sound effect]

  28. Oh yes, blame CIA for *EVERYTHING* !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    One of the reasons for that was some IDIOT in the CIA apparently using a polio vaccination program as a cover for a covert operation in Pakistan

    Isn't it so swell that you get to blame CIA for *EVERYTHING* ??

    Did CIA plan the 9/11 attack or was it Osama Bin Laden who led the planning committee ?

    Was Pakistan offering a sanctuary for Osama Bin Laden, or was it CIA which pressured Pakistan to offer sanctuary for Osama Bin Laden ?

    Do you have a brain ?

    Do you know how to think ?

    Blaming the CIA for everything may be a trendy thing, but you sir are a certifiable *IDIOT* to blame CIA on their killing the health workers in Pakistan !

    1. Re: Oh yes, blame CIA for *EVERYTHING* !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He didn't blame them for everything. Just one factual case.

    2. Re:Oh yes, blame CIA for *EVERYTHING* !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it isn't intellectually dishonest at all that you get to blame terrorists for absolutely anything done in the name of anti-terrorism.

    3. Re:Oh yes, blame CIA for *EVERYTHING* !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who led the planning committee

      These people clearly have mastered the art of design by committee! Lets ask them the next time we start designing something by committee ourselves. Ah yes, that is why Guantanamo is still maintained: for asking them how it is done. Designing by committee, I mean.

  29. Sounds like a job for Jenny McCarthy by frrrp · · Score: 1

    Boom times ahead for Indian antivaxxers

    --
    smilies are for reetards
  30. S)_IA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have way too many facts here. Even if you wanted to say something it was buried by them.

  31. cold_fjord? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, wow. cold_fjord going ballistic. Nice fireworks :-)

  32. A strawman attack !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was waiting for the strawman to make an appearance, and you never disappoint me.

    Well-educated fundamentalist Muslim is an oxymoron; just as well-educated Christian fundamentalist is. Education is supposed to impart the ability to critically think (indeed, many argue that it is the main point of it).

    And yes, Christian fundies are just as dangerous.

    Pulling a strawman trick will never make your lame point any more stronger.

    Why the need to mention the Christian fundies, may I ask ?

    Is it because you have run out of boogieman ?

    Or is it a way to divert the attention away from that bloody religion of Islam ?

    It was Islamic terrorists which brought down the WTC. Not Christian fundies, not Buddist fundies, not Hindu fundies, not even Atheist fundies.

    Shame on you !!

    1. Re:A strawman attack !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are probably not aware that you've just strengthened the parent poster with your post, but that is what you did. Good thing, too, although unintended on your behalf.

  33. Hubris by Karmashock · · Score: 1, Interesting

    These are merely temporary measures. These diseases come back. We've already seen some of them come back in the US.

    yes, this is largely due to the anti vaccination movement. But consider, that that is all it takes for them to come back.

    They are still out there. Waiting. Breeding. Evolving.

    The only real counter against pandemics is to control the vectors of transmission.

    Take hospitals. What is more effective at controlling infection.

    1. having doctors wash their hands.

    2. spraying everything with industrial antibacterial agents regularly.

    Answer: 1

    Why? While 2 is effective at first it leads to mass bacterial resistance and eventually the immunity of that bacteria to our anti bacterial which renders them ineffective.

    Where as washing your hands will probably always work.

    Look at the way our digestive system handles food. Acid bath. Brutal but effective.

    As to the rest all the various disease we get... control the vectors. The insects that spread some diseases... kill them all. Genocide them. I know some will say "but we need them"... we don't. Mosquitoes are entirely dispensable. Some ecosystems will be disrupted by their loss but something else will fill the void and life will carry on.

    Same thing with ticks etc. Pretty much all the blood suckers should go.

    Next we should make some kind of effort to keep people from coughing on each other and getting each other sick. The chinese have their funny face masks. That's one way to accomplish this task but I'd like to have something less intrusive.

    Something to think on.

    In any case, do that along with keeping the water/food clean and we should be pretty safe.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:Hubris by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Mosquitoes are entirely dispensable."

      Tell that to the spiders, frogs, lizards, birds, fish, and the thousands of other species that evolved to subsist primarily on mosquitoes.

      Also tell it to the aquatic plants that would suffocate and die if not for the mosquito larvae eating the detritus and other waste that would otherwise film the surface of stagnant lakes and create a gas-exchange barrier preventing the passage of nitrogen and oxygen.

      The list goes on, but extincting the mosquito would have devastating environmental consequences.

    2. Re:Hubris by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Less intrusive than a facemask, you mean like a clear plastic bag?

      The reason Polio and other things like Measles have made come backs is that they were never actually eradicated. They were just rare here in the US where most of us are vaccinated. Many of these diseases are still prevalent in other parts of the world. And people being social animals move around and share their diseases with others. We are nearing the point though that we can actually destroy Polio by vaccinating enough of the world population.

    3. Re:Hubris by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Allright, mosquitoes are important.

      But "the mosquito" is not an species. There are plenty of them, and most species do not transmit disiases. In fact, the worst offenders are completely domestic, unable to survive on the wild.

    4. Re:Hubris by sjames · · Score: 1

      So what does it say about the quality of our expensive healthcare that we're having a hard time getting doctors to wash their hands?

    5. Re:Hubris by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Its actually a global problem.

      Doctors get complacent.

      They abuse antibiotics.

      One of the better controls for the system has been putting all the antibiotics under the control of one person and having every use of them logged by that person.

      In addition to that, you just go completely fascist with the wash your f'ing hands policies.

      A few hospitals have done this and the survival rates have gone up and instances of resistant bacteria have gone down.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    6. Re:Hubris by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      If they ceased to exist are you really going to claim the global ecology is going to collapse?

      Sure, there are likely to be a few other species that suffer but given that my priority is the human species, I'd be willing in their case to collect some samples of the species and keep them alive in preserves until they can be reintroduced into the wild AND survive.

      I do not believe that the whole global ecology will collapse due to the loss of any one species.

      And yes, there are many types of and species of mosquitoes but I'm going to treat them as all one threat regardless of the fact that they live in different regions of the world in entirely different habitats. They suck my blood, transmit disease, and for that they die.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    7. Re:Hubris by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      The transmission of the diseases are likely more common in cities. One thing you might want to look at is reducing population density. It likely is safer.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    8. Re:Hubris by unixisc · · Score: 1

      "Mosquitoes are entirely dispensable."

      Tell that to the spiders, frogs, lizards, birds, fish, and the thousands of other species that evolved to subsist primarily on mosquitoes.

      Also tell it to the aquatic plants that would suffocate and die if not for the mosquito larvae eating the detritus and other waste that would otherwise film the surface of stagnant lakes and create a gas-exchange barrier preventing the passage of nitrogen and oxygen.

      The list goes on, but extincting the mosquito would have devastating environmental consequences.

      That's only valid as far as mosquito larva goes. Once they start flying, frogs, lizards & fish have no way to get to them. Birds too eat mosquito larva, not the flying adults, and spiders tend to prefer flies a lot more.

    9. Re:Hubris by geekoid · · Score: 1

      wrong. They were eradicated from the US, and brought back in from other countries.

      " Many of these diseases are still prevalent in other parts of the world."
      No shit Sherlock. Maybe that why the say eradicated from X? Maybe that's why there is a specific criteria on what eradicated means regarding diseases?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    10. Re:Hubris by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " it leads to mass bacterial resistance"
      depend on what you are using as the agent to kill bacteria. Alcohol kills bacteria and they can't evolve against it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:Hubris by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      I think you know what I mean.

      Really? So if I released a line of soaps that had alchohol in them, you're saying I could put on the label "anti bacterial"?

      or are you wrong?

      Rhetorical... don't nitpick me if you're in fact in error.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    12. Re:Hubris by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      Where do you think mosquito larvae come from? Do you think a stork drops them into the water?

  34. No - just blame them for their own actions by dbIII · · Score: 1

    That's the way they did it and there's really no way to "spin" it.
    The blowback death toll of murdered medical staff and disease victims is increasing daily.

  35. Now if they could only do something about... by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    ... Rabies. Good God they have a lot of rabies cases, and it's just an awful way to die.

    1. Re:Now if they could only do something about... by blueg3 · · Score: 2

      We're able to eradicate diseases effectively when they have no non-human reservoir. That's because if we eliminate all existing cases and prevent new cases for a little while (through vaccination), the disease will die out. For diseases with non-human reservoirs, like rabies, we'd have to eliminate the disease in the entire reservoir population, too, which is infeasible.

  36. I survived polio! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I mean I am still alive and polio is (almost) dead!

    I contracted polio in rural India when I was about 5, 10 years after Salk's vaccine was deployed all over the USA. I had switched schools about six times in k-12, (civil servant dad posted to all the distant corners of the realm). In almost every class, in every school I had another victim as classmate. That is anecdotal evidence with the survivor bias too. How many had died? How many did not even attend school?

    Well, I am glad the scourge has been eliminated in India. Hope the fundie clerics do not stand in the way of complete eradication. It is very disheartening the fundie clerics and the Haj pilgrimage is re-introducing it again in far flung regions of the world. If polio found an able adversary in science, it has found a reliable ally in the form of Muslim fundamentalists.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:I survived polio! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .....So you're saying you killed your classmates ?

    2. Re:I survived polio! by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      ".....So you're saying you killed your classmates ?"

      Jokes like this aren't funny when the dead have names and faces.

    3. Re:I survived polio! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you got your Doctorate in Evil, but you should really demand you money back.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:I survived polio! by kbahey · · Score: 1

      Hajj re-introducing polio? How so?
      Hajj has been running annually for 14 centuries.
      How different is that from Hindu religious gatherings?

      And from TFA:

      "Religious leaders were persuaded to join the effort. "The calls that went out to the Muslim faithful every Friday contained reminders to take children to the immunization booths," said Mr. Kapur of Rotary International. "These were the people initially most skeptical of the vaccines but, once convinced, they became our biggest agents of change."

      So, it is not Islam, nor religion i. general that is at play here.

    5. Re:I survived polio! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Haj pilgrims gather from all distant parts of the world. There are a few clerics in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria and Indonesia who do not believe in polio vaccines and believe it is some kind of dangerous thing promoted by America and the West. CIA had used polio vaccination as a pretext to collect DNA samples to locate/confirm Osama Bin Laden hiding in Abadabad. Haj pilgrims from these parts who could be carrying the polio virus have a chance to transmit it to others in Arabia and spread to very distant parts of the world.

      The risk is less, Haj pilgrims are devout Muslims who would follow the rules of "wadu" strictly and practice very high standards of hygiene. But still there is some risk there because of the overwhelming number of pilgrims. The infrastructure is strained, and all it takes is one sick patient to transmit the virus.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    6. Re:I survived polio! by kbahey · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Hajj gathers people from all around the world. So does international events, included CES, the Oscars, ...etc.. Should we cancel them too? Here in Canada a nurse traveled to China and got H5N1 bird flu, and died in Alberta. Should we ban certain ethnicities or destinations or professions from traveling at all?

      The few clerics who are a problem for polio, are also problematic for many other things, such as preventing girls getting an education. In all cases, they are not the majority, and they have to be dealt with by dissiminating awareness and education to counter their bigotry.

      The CIA's use of vaccination as a cover to get Bin Laden is appaling, not the least because it has made people suspicious of getting immunization in a place where some preachers malign it already. This would add fuel to their fire and vindicate them of a western conspiracy is in place and vaccination is its vehicle for making them sterile/sick/quack-du-jour.

    7. Re:I survived polio! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Cool down buddy. I did not ask for a ban on Haj. But if some leading organizers and promoters of international events were actively discouraging the participants from getting vaccinations, yes, I would ask for the ban/boycott/protest of such events. Because of the historical nature of Haj, I would be more lenient on Haj, but not on other international events, including the Olympics.

      The problem might be confined to a few clerics. They could very well be the minority. But when it comes to deadly diseases caused by pathogens, all it takes is one carrier to reintroduce it and reestablish it in a distant, unsuspecting, vulnerable part of the world.

      Yes, CIA is to be blamed and condemned for using polio vaccinations as the ruse. We, the liberals of the West, will find a way to rein in our bad actors, the NSA, the CIA, the Haliburtons, the oil companies, Senator "bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-iran" McCains and Cheneys. If we don't our culture and our way of life will perish in the coming decades. By exactly the same token, if the Muslims do not find a way to restrain their bad actors, that religion will crumble in the coming decades.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    8. Re:I survived polio! by kbahey · · Score: 1

      Cool down buddy.

      Must be lack of coffee ... sorry ...

      I did not ask for a ban on Haj. But if some leading organizers and promoters of international events were actively discouraging the participants from getting vaccinations, yes, I would ask for the ban/boycott/protest of such events. Because of the historical nature of Haj, I would be more lenient on Haj, but not on other international events, including the Olympics

      This is another fallacy: that the organizers of promoters of Hajj are the ones who are discouraging vaccinations. You totally miss how Islam operates. There is no central authority. Saudi Arabia manages the event, and largely do an OK job. Muslims want to go on their own accord, not because some cleric says go or not. Saudi Arabia mandates vaccinations for certain diseases, without which they don't issue a Hajj visa. I know, because I had to take them, and everyone else. They change the list depending on epidemics, e.g. they added meningitis in the 90s. I recall (vaguely) that they banned an entire country when an epidemic broke out there for something uncommon.

      The problem might be confined to a few clerics. They could very well be the minority. But when it comes to deadly diseases caused by pathogens, all it takes is one carrier to reintroduce it and reestablish it in a distant, unsuspecting, vulnerable part of the world.

      Totally agree. Yes, they are localized, and normally find fertile ground in countries rife with civil war, and other socio-economic ills. Think of why Afghanistan is in those top three. Think of Nigeria and that crazy Boko Haram movement (want to ban Western education, then morphed into a military confrontation), think Pakistan which has a disfunctional government for over half a century.

      Yes, CIA is to be blamed and condemned for using polio vaccinations as the ruse. We, the liberals of the West, will find a way to rein in our bad actors, the NSA, the CIA, the Haliburtons, the oil companies, Senator "bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-iran" McCains and Cheneys. If we don't our culture and our way of life will perish in the coming decades. By exactly the same token, if the Muslims do not find a way to restrain their bad actors, that religion will crumble in the coming decades.

      Agree ...

      The apathy I see towards Obama being just another Bush, and the NSA fiasco does not give me much hope.

  37. Re:The vomiting smelly cocks... by alex67500 · · Score: 0

    Smelly cocks are vomiting sticky goodies right into your asshole. What will you do?

    Change the Game Master...

  38. Re:The vomiting smelly cocks... by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

    That... (roll)... works. Damn. Well, you guys have to pay for the pizza.

    --
    sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  39. Re:The vomiting smelly cocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come out of the closet. So should you.

  40. Don't worry... by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't worry, Jenny McCarthy will be over with a horde of uneducated soccer moms to fuck it all up for you soon enough.

    1. Re:Don't worry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Death by Snoo Snoo. It's a good death.

    2. Re:Don't worry... by airdweller · · Score: 1

      "Death by Snoo Snoo. It's a good death."
      If such a death was possible, Jenny McCarthy would already be dead.

  41. Except not by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Vaccinations are haram, that is, against sharia. Every year following the annual Hajj, the Muslim world sees an uptick in polio as a result. With the largest Muslim population in the world, India is bound to always have polio.

    1. Re:Except not by tsqr · · Score: 1

      With the largest Muslim population in the world, India is bound to always have polio.

      Do you also confuse Australia with Austria? Indonesia is the country with the largest Muslim population.

    2. Re:Except not by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Oh cut him some slack, the numbers are close and his point is valid. It's no where near confusing Austria with Australia. 189M v 204M whoop-dee-doo.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Except not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoop-dee-doo your ass. India vs Indonesia is very much like Austria vs Australia in that their names are sufficiently similar to be confused by an ill-informed person. Other than that, Islam is a minority religion in India, but an overwhelming majority religion in Indonesia. Since his point was based on a false premise, it really isn't valid at all.

  42. Re:That's what they want you to think by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    If a patent on polio really existed, Time-Warner would own it and be publicly lobbying Congress to extend it into infinity. And the vaccine would be outlawed as "circumvention."

  43. Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now if they can devoid funds to providing toilets to the hundreds of millions that lack such service, instead of wasting money on the pissing contests that the Indian government is so fond of, India would gain international respect.

  44. Quick by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oprah! Call Jenny McCarthy, quick! We've got a situation in India that requires ignorance, stat!

    1. Re:Quick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, radical Islam's got her back.

  45. Re:That's what they want you to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polo_(confectionery)

    Polo mints are from the United Kingdom. Evil bastards. Selling Polo to fine American kids.

  46. Citations? by sdoca · · Score: 1

    Could you cite a source or two for that claim?

  47. Unfair accusations by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

    The pope didn't murder health workers. Pope John Paul II is however directly responsible for many dead people in Africa, by forbidding the use of condoms.

    Forbid? You speak as if condoms were outlawed. The Church only "forbids" condoms in the sense that vegan literature "forbids" eating meat. It is up to individual choice.

    All this in the name of a corrupt and inmensely rich institution that claims to bring the word of god.

    You speak as if priests and bishops chose such lives seeking money and comfort. In fact, it is much more comfortable to live a secular life than it is to be a celibate priest.

    Also, see
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2009/03/aids_expert_who_defended_the_p.html

    1. Re:Unfair accusations by cusco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In many dioceses the Church also makes selling or giving away condoms a sin. Healthcare workers are also forbidden from recommending condoms for birth control. Marriages that cannot be "correctly" consummated, e.g. one partner has HIV so barriers must be used, are not considered valid.

      It's not money and comfort, it's power that attracts many people to the priesthood. Power over parishioners in the case of the parish priest, or really enormous power over the political process affecting the lives of millions when they reach the position of archbishop or cardinal.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:Unfair accusations by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

      In many dioceses the Church also makes selling or giving away condoms a sin.

      Condoms are still easy to find.
      Anyway, this is analogous to (hypothetically) a vegan saying that selling meat is unethical.

      It's not money and comfort, it's power that attracts many people to the priesthood. Power over parishioners in the case of the parish priest

      What power does a parish priest have?

      or really enormous power over the political process affecting the lives of millions when they reach the position of archbishop or cardinal.

      Centuries ago, that would be credible. Today, it is inconsistent with the facts.

      It is far easier and more effective to achieve power by getting elected as a politician.

  48. How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did all horses drown or something?

  49. Polio "basished from the planet"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Polio "banished from the planet"? I guess all those cases in Afghanistan just don't count, then.

  50. Re:That's what they want you to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt they would have patented it because then their work would be public. But I have no doubt they have reserves of purified polio in underground bunkers. Although you have to wonder if this is would be an effective wartime weapon. Surely something faster-acting and more challenging to inoculate against would be a better choice.

    Biological agents make pretty terrible weapons in practice.

    It's too difficult to control their spread, too slow and they don't kill enough of the enemy to be worth bothering with, too fast and you can't get them to stop killing once you've won. And anyone with the technology level necessary to even try to tailor a decease to the level of precision you need to make it match the usefulness of say: mustard gas, will have access to many more effective weapons of mass destruction (like mustard gas).

  51. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish! by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    Cut off its air supply!

    Gates found a better place for his skills.

  52. Because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They *WANT* to take over and they ARE as psyhcotic and dangerous and because we know what you people want to do in your secret blackest of black little hearts.

    Sorry, this isn't about religious preference, its about fear of psychos.

  53. Not banished from the planet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure that there are still cases in Nigeria and Pakistan.

    There is also detectable polio virus genomes (they checked waste water by PCR) in Israel. The presence of genomes (not vaccine, since Israel switched to a protein-only vaccine) indicates that there is low level replication that is not causing disease (probably in vaccinated individuals). If vaccination drops-off or the virus encounters someone immunodeficient, then there will eventually be more cases of polio.

  54. But there will always be some Ice-9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US and, of course, Russia, still have live smallpox in their "labs"...just in case (i.e. needed for weapons and maybe, just maybe for research) so I have to assume that the US and Russia (and now China) will keep a supply of live Polio virus just in case...

    It is Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle and the Ice-9.

  55. Islam is not the issue here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Islam is as much a part of India as it is of Pakistan, in fact India has 11% of the world's Muslim population (0.5% more than Pakistan). So do not confuse one cleric in one province to represent Islam.

  56. Re:Are you that *RETARD* you are looking for ? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

    That's why you click on sources and see where they lead before blindly accepting them...

  57. Excellent by geekoid · · Score: 1
    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  58. So no more polio vaccines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " polio—like smallpox—will be officially banished from the planet."

    If that is the end result then bravo. One more down. That also raises the question of when do we stop using the polio vaccine? If like smallpox there is no more virus then we wouldn't need to. I got my smallpox shot (yes I'm that old) and drank the polio vaccine. Yep the live one that was the only cause of polio in the western world in the 1980s according to Salk. When I read that interview with him my heart skipped a beat or two. We all thought it was great that we didn't have to get a needle.

    I'm wondering if the polio virus is still around or completely eradicated? Can it survive in other animals, mutate and come back?

  59. Space research by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Indian regime is spending $1 billion/year on space research when 50% of its children are malnourished.
    http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Every-second-Indian-child-is-malnourished-Report/articleshow/25724848.cms