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Target Confirms Point-of-Sale Malware Was Used In Attack

wiredmikey writes "According to Target Chairman and CEO Gregg Steinhafel, point-of-sale (POS) malware was used in the recent attack that compromised millions of credit and debit card account numbers of customers across the country. Steinfhafel told CNBC's Becky Quick in an interview that malware was used in attacks that compromised the company's point of sale registers. According to a report from Reuters, Target and Neiman Marcus may not be alone, as other popular U.S. retailers may have been breached during the busy the holiday shopping season. According sources who spoke to Reuters, attackers used RAM scraper, or Memory parser malware to steal sensitive data from Target and other retail victims. Visa issued alerts about attacks utilizing these types of malware in April 2013 and again in August 2013. Memory parser malware targets payment card data being processed 'in the clear' (unencrypted) in a system's random access memory (RAM). 'The malware is configured to hook into a payment application binary responsible for processing payment transactions and extracts the systems memory for full track data,' Visa explained in a security advisory."

66 of 250 comments (clear)

  1. Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's any number of ways their POS system could have been done securely, but somewhere a decision must have been made on costs, in regard to paring them down, which resulted in something about as secure as an intranet of unprotected Windows XP computers exposed to the internet. No isolated network, no encryption, dependence upon commodity *cough* Windows *cough* operating system, etc.

    I'm sure it all looked great, until this happened, then they get 200% more wise.

    Seems everywhere I go these cheap systems are in place and the malware may already be chugging along for years without detection.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really, the card companies ought to be black boxing the readers, so that the POS system never has access to unencrypted transaction information to begin with. They really only need to know if the transaction was approved.

      They already do this for small retailers (those little card reader/tape dispenser thingies sitting next to the register). They need to start forcing a similar system on the big retailers.

    2. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seriously? Unless they radically alter how these things are built and networked, all it would take is one disgruntled cashier (or one willing to accept a percent of the take) + one register that isn't quite visible from the cameras + one appropriately-loaded USB stick (or similar device).

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by lgw · · Score: 2

      ATM number keyboards are special: they never let a PIN into the RAM of the ATM, only a slated hash of the PIN. (Most of them are also horribly flawed in that they also have a "normal" mode, allowing a hacked ATM to display a UI to harvest PINs in that mode. Sigh.)

      Use this same technique for card readers: the magstripe reader doesn't ever put the raw bits on the wire, only a salted hash of those bits, so that's all that's available to a RAM scraper.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by i.r.id10t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure it all looked great, until this happened, then they get 200% more wise.

      Experience is learning from mistakes you make

      Wisdom is learning from the mistakes other people make

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    5. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      Not to mention that most of the popular POS systems run on XP, and still will for long after Microsoft has abandon it.

    6. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by aviators99 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In 2015, EMV becomes required in the US. Those retailers who don't black box their card readers will be 100% liable for fraud at their point-of-sale (including stolen cards).

    7. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Windows XP? If only. I haven't seen a Target POS machine reboot, but the ones I've seen in other stores display the Windows 98 splash screen.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    8. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm very surprised that Target thinks that every register in every store was infected. Just getting them all running the same malware is a major feat. And how did this POS malware get ahold of the 70 million "guest" records that weren't on the POS devices?

    9. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by udachny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I build and support retail management systems, supply chain management, CRM, ERP for retailers, for suppliers, for shipping, logistics and such. The simplest way to use a bank terminal is NOT to connect it to a POS in the first place. But this means lack of integration and possible errors by a POS operator, if for example they have to indicate in the POS system whether the it was a cash or a card transaction, etc. We provide our own Linux based solutions for all parts of the business management, including integrated, linux based POS, but again, the way we integrate it, the POS doesn't even get to see the bank terminal information, it sends the total amount to the terminal and expects a confirmation or a rejection back from it, it doesn't operate the terminal, it is not even possible for the POS to know what is happening between the customer and the terminal. From my POV it is bad form to allow POS to know anything that the terminal does beyond final status of the transaction.

    10. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

      There isn't much we can do until there is end-to-end encryption in the purchasing process. The POS device should never even know your pin or credit card number.

    11. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by catfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's because they're not paying the full costs of the damage they allow through poor security practices. If they reimbursed you and me a millions of other people for our time and effort to clean up their mess, it wouldn't be cheaper than solving the problem.

    12. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by y86 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm sure it all looked great, until this happened, then they get 200% more wise.

      Seems everywhere I go these cheap systems are in place and the malware may already be chugging along for years without detection.

      I worked for a MAJOR retailer that was involved with a credit card crisis. The only reason the registers didn't get raped was the fact they ran linux. The actual POS servers ran Windows 2000 so that is what got cracked. Management was working hard to get away from these solid state linux computers for the "cost savings" in administration of the Windows platform. I can tell you that a multipurpose platform is not appropriate for a specialized task.

    13. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ATM keypads don't generate hashes of your pin. They hold a cryptographic key that is dervied form another key from the network and then use the resulting key to encrypt your pin entry, but you are correct. Those keys and your pin number are held in memory on the pin pad.

    14. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      DOOM is one of the most ported pieces of software in history, so it's only natural...

      http://www.techdigest.tv/2013/10/10_gadgets_that.html

    15. Re: Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nope. But they all offshored their IT to India.

    16. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by sunderland56 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This.

      For the attack to happen the way Target says, there must be two MAJOR flaws in their network:

        - the POS machines must be accepting software updates from the network - to allow the attackers to download their firmware;

        - the POS machines must be able to connect to an arbitrary server not on the Target network - to allow the POS machines to transmit the collected data.

      There is no valid reason for either of these. Need to update firmware? Have the IT guy at each store do it manually. And, install a decent firewall so that random machines inside your store can't talk to the outside world. (This will both prevent security breaches, *and* stop the employees in the photo department from surfing the web when they're supposed to be working).

    17. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Informative

      > the card companies ought to be black boxing the readers, so that the POS system never has access to unencrypted transaction information

      You're on the right track. Keep going! Don't stop yet.

      How about black boxing the cards?!!!

      AKA, Smart Cards. The card itself has a complete computer running Java just like the SIM card in your GSM phone. The computer on the smart card is black boxed. That computer has a private certificate. When transactions are signed by the processor in the card itself, the certificate chain can be verified that the certificate within the smart card is genuine and signed the transaction. Attempting to learn the secret data within the smart card destroys the data, or at least is extremely expensive -- and would only compromise that card making the attack not economically attractive.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    18. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Havokmon · · Score: 2

      Yes, I'm not sure why the unencrypted card stripe data needs to be anywhere except in the little black box (LBB) that swipes the card and the bank's computer.

      The interface between the cash register and LBB could/should be.

      What bank? Here is the basic process:
      User (swipe)-> Merchant (dial)-> Front-End Processor (T1) -> card issuer.

      At least the first 6 digits need to be unencrypted so the transaction attempt can be routed to the correct bank. Of course, with terminals accepting Amex (15 digits), and proprietary cards - it's probably not even that easy.

      As it is, (though I've been out of the biz for 5 years), there are no terminals that encrypt the transaction end to end. The front-ends only accept unencrypted data (via encrypted transmission).

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
    19. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      What is it with people and thinking that a smartcard = RFID? And it seems to be mainly americans who should know better, damn it this is /. not a chan or reddit. But it sure seems to be devolving into both.

      Here, let the learning begin.
      Smartcard
      RFID

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    20. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In 2015, EMV becomes required in the US. Those retailers who don't black box their card readers will be 100% liable for fraud at their point-of-sale (including stolen cards).

      Retailers are 100% liable today. And that's the problem!

      EMV offers no additional protection whatsoever in a card present scenario unless the customer is required to enter a PIN. Which as you know.. convenience blah blah, speed blah, reasons. And nobody will. Even "einstein" level smart chips are useless without a PIN. What EMV was designed to do is reverse the precident that banks are responsible for bearing the costs of fraud unless the customer can be proven to have been negligent. All EMV is, is an attempt by the industry to dial things back to the way they were pre-2009 -- which was where they could claim the systems were perfect and infallible, therefore all liability is with the customer. It took an act of Congress, also known as the FSA, to override the courts and provide relief to the customers.It's taken a lot of work on the down-low getting key positions in the Senate filled by sympathetic Republicans, but behold! EMV: Now the courts and congress can be fully aligned in their desire to screw over the customer. It's motto might as well be Enter your PIN: Assume full liability.

      Also... I don't know what you think "black box" means, but merely separating the card swiper from the cashier's hands is not "black box" in IT; and that's all EMV does. In IT, black box means that the entire interface is subsumed into an external device, not networked, and not user-programmable, and it provides a pass/fail signal or similar. Retail will never, ever, go for this. Your name and zip code is embedded in the card; that's valuable marketing data. They're not going to reduce transactions to what would essentially be anonymous... this is just common sense.

      So I'm going to have to slap on the cliche "Citation Needed" onto your assertion. EMV has but one purpose -- to deprive consumers of any recourse to fraud in a card-present scenario, and to reduce liability to the banks in a CNP scenario as well. Fraud is a multi-billion dollar industry, and businesses like fixed costs. Everything about card transactions is a fixed cost to the bank, except for fraud. Make the customer responsible, and now everything is nice and orderly.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    21. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by aviators99 · · Score: 2

      Clearly you have a good understanding of the issues with EMV.

      I was only talking about the "black box" nature and liability shift of EMV (in the context of TFA and the GP).

      The EMV (chip and pin) box handles encryption completely within the box, thus making it a "black box" in the way the GP was talking about. TFA talks about using memory scanner malware to read card data (and assumingly PII). The black box nature of the EMV box mitigates this threat very well, unless the manufacturer does something really stupid like running XP Embedded or something like that. But more likely this box is running some RTOS or an OS that can not easily have malware injected into it.

      The POS systems that currently read credit cards using USB card reading apparatus are extremely vulnerable, which is the point of TFA. Going to EMV takes the card/PIN encryption out of the realm of this particular vulnerability. Note that in the Target exploit, only encrypted PIN codes were harvested. That's because the encryption of debit card PIN codes is done via a separate "black box" PIN pad. So I don't think that there is any question that moving the encryption outside of the retail POS itself is a net gain to security and privacy. It also reduces skimming itself by having the card in the hands of the merchant staff much less, if at all.

      As far as the liability shift, here's a citation:
      http://www.firstdata.com/downloads/thought-leadership/EMV_US.pdf

    22. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by ShaunC · · Score: 2

      Need to update firmware? Have the IT guy at each store do it manually.

      Ha, ha, ha. An IT guy for each store? Where is the CEO's bonus supposed to come from if they're spending money on employees like that?

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    23. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Fnord666 · · Score: 2

      Experience is learning from mistakes you make

      I thought experience was something that you get right after you need it.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    24. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      Or maybe it is because the exploits they were using were made specifically for Windows, and not Linux .

      You miss the point entirely. Of course they were exploits made for Windows. They were targetting Windows-based devices. They didn't attack the devices because they ran Windows. They attacked them because they wanted the data. They would have attacked them if they had ran Linux, too.

      If the entire system was Linux it may have been harder all around to get the data.

      Why, because Linux is magic? They would need to find just one exploit that let's them get enough privileges to read the memory. That exploit could be in Linux, that exploit could be in the POS software that runs on Linux.

      I'm no Windows CE fanboy, believe me, but Linux doesn't make this problem go away via voodoo. This should be a story about securing their POS network, IDS, systems monitoring, how payment devices and the code that runs on them is verified, etc.

    25. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by jader3rd · · Score: 4, Informative

      Need to update firmware? Have the IT guy at each store do it manually.

      Wait, what? That's exactly the opposite of how a large shop runs their operations. You create an image that you want applied to all machines that match a certain profile, and then let the machines do the updates at a preconfigured time.

    26. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by Spillman · · Score: 2, Informative

      the card number couldnt be hashed because the merchant's EFt processor routes the transaction to the cardholder's bank by using the BIN number which is the first 6 (usually) digits of the card nymber. the rest of the track 2 data could not be hashed either since it is used to calculate your pin by your bank.

      You might be interested in reading:

      ISO 8583

      and also, How pin checking generally works

      --
      sig?
    27. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by matthewv789 · · Score: 2

      Indeed. But if you read the case study linked from here, you'll see that a major Target initiative over the past decade has been centralizing all of their internal systems, from inventory to pharmacy to in-store security to point-of-sale, into a single physical server per store running Microsoft Server 2008 and Hyper-V virtualization. Furthermore, the virtualization, OSes (some are AIX) and applications are all maintained and updated centrally, not by anyone physically in each store. (Target employs local contractors for in-store installation and maintenance.)

      Thus, anyone who is able to access the central source for updates could compromise every IT function running in all Target stores.

    28. Re:Cheap architecture + short cuts = DOOM by neokushan · · Score: 2

      tap to pay = RFID == lower security

      Can we not spread bullshit and FUD on /. please?

      The "tap to pay" interface is linked directly to the smart card. There are some protocol differences to handle the faster nature of the transaction, but it's still EMV, it's still just as secure as the chip itself, it's just contactless.

      Even if the terminal itself was compromised and you could read the chip directly, you won't get anything useful from it. Sure, you'll get track2 data (i.e. the magstripe information) but it's useless for EMV as an EMV transaction has several layers of security. Encryption, hashing, cryptograms, essentially there's no way to replay a transaction even if you capture every bit of data from it. In EMV, the terminal isn't trusted, it just acts as an intermediary between card and host. Both the card AND the host can decide to decline a transaction. The card, at any point, can force a terminal to go online if it's not satisfied with the terminal (and will occasionally do so just for the sake of it, because certain floor limits have been hit) and if the terminal doesn't do this, the transaction is cancelled.
      AT BEST, a criminal could remotely pass through your card's APDU's wirelessly to another transmitter to perform a fraudulent transaction but contactless payments are limited by a maximum spend (usually something like $15 or $20) and will often still require your PIN to proceed.

      Your scaremongering isn't helping anyone, it's just causing people to stick with magstripe which is so insecure it's utterly laughable.

      --
      +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  2. Somebody should be by soon by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Somebody should be by soon to defend the l33t crackers involved in this. Can't wait to read it....

    "We did you a service, now you know." Of course they won't give up anything they managed to steal.

    Brace yourself for new laws.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  3. Inside job? by BringsApples · · Score: 5, Interesting
    All quotes from TFA:

    "Smaller breaches on at least three other well-known U.S. retailers took place and were conducted using similar techniques as the one on Target," Reuters reported, citing sources familiar with the attacks. "Those breaches have yet to come to light...

    What the hell, why not? I had to cancel one of my family debit cards because of Target, do I now have to cancel my other one from an unnamed store?

    After gaining access to a merchant’s network, attackers can install memory-parsing malware on register systems or backend processing servers to extract magnetic-stripe data as it moves through the through the payment process.

    How are they gaining access to Target's network? Maybe it's from the ever-famous wireless network that's in all Target stores, and is prone to attacks, based purely on it's password policy (changes automatically once a month - or doesn't at all - I hear)

    “The malware is configured to hook into a payment application binary responsible for processing payment transactions and extracts the systems memory for full track data,” Visa explained in a security advisory.

    Again, how did they not only get into the system, but how'd they know the executable binary that was running? I mean, this isn't something that was done in one day, it had to be a collective goal for more than one person.

    Visa first warned about these types of attacks targeting grocery merchants, but said merchant segment is vulnerable. According to Visa, these types memory parser malware attacks have been found only targeting Windows-based operating systems.

    This one is my favorite. Why any retailer is running Windows on a POS PC is beyond anyone that knows how computers work. It should be illegal.

    In March 2013, new malware was found targeting point-of-sale (POS) systems and ATMs and was behind the theft of payment card information from several US banks. Called "Dump Memory Grabber", the malware scans the memory of point-of-sale systems and ATMs looking for credit card data.

    And how the shit does one gain access to an ATM's RAM?

    All in all, I feel that this must have been an inside job of some kind. Not just a Target employee, but a Target employee(s) and someone who has access to ATMs inner-workings.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re:Inside job? by houstonbofh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This one is my favorite. Why any retailer is running Windows on a POS PC is beyond anyone that knows how computers work. It should be illegal.

      GEtting PCI compliance certification is not cheap, and you need it if you want integrated payment. So far, not a lot of open source POS systems are lining up to pay for certification...

    2. Re:Inside job? by Reibisch · · Score: 2

      This one is my favorite. Why any retailer is running Windows on a POS PC is beyond anyone that knows how computers work. It should be illegal.

      So you're saying that you're a security by obscurity advocate then.

      Not running on an embedded Windows installation might seem like a safe bet, but as TFA mentions, this vector had to do with processing the payments in the clear -- simply running another OS doesn't necessarily give you that for free.

  4. Re:CASH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's the only answer to limit exposure to mass fraud.

    Yeah, because there were no fraud before electronic transactions.. Last report I saw (admittedly around a year ago), old style "manual" money fraud (counterfeit, impersonating, etc.) was still estimated to exceed electronic fraud by order of magnitude.

  5. Well, then. by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    > [...] that malware was used in attacks that compromised the company's point of sale registers.

    See?? There is still a market for Windows 98 programmers!

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  6. Re:They were not in PCI-DSS compliance. by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

    The Card Readers they used should have been encrypted making all sensitive data only decipherable to the processor.

    It sounds like it was encrypted, and the malware was on the processor.

    There would have been no data "in the clear" even if they were RAM Scraping.

    The article claimed it had to be decrypted in memory in order to process it. I think this is a fundamental limitation of the credit system.

  7. Re:Cash only economy by jythie · · Score: 2

    And that is why it is unlikely there will be some big (or slow) revolution to go cash based. All the methods of handling your money have advantages, disadvantages, emotional attachments, and probabilities associated with them, with each person or demographic group weighing them differently.

  8. Yes. Inside job without a doubt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I worked on POS systems back in the late 90s - so, keep in mind my knowledge is not recent - no really, retailers move at a snails pace when it comes to technology.

    First, this was an inside job. POS systems are too stupid to connect to the Internet.

    Second, back in my day, the register was a very dumb PC (DOS with an extender and later moved to Windows - yeah, I know). Network security NEVER entered the picture because it is a closed system: POS->Store server->Local/Main office over leased lines or VPN on the internet. The servers were slow shit. All they need to do is record sales data.

    In other words, IF the POS servers were in fact connected to the Internet so that crackers could get it, then someone really really really screwed up because there was absolutely no reasons to do so. Too slow.

    And if these servers WERE connected to the Internet, all the crackers would see is unencrypted transaction data: CC #s, exp dates, amounts, what was bought, names, and all the other data collected by the POS computer. Yeah, wide open - because it was thought that no one outside the store would ever see it.

    Retailing, in general, is a VERY competitive business with razor thin margins. Go to your finance website of choice and compare Walmart's,Target's,Sear's or whoever's operating margins with any other industry's company - Pharma is my favoriate comparison: try Bristol Meyers Sqibb (BMY). So, they take THE cheapest way out every time.

    1. Re:Yes. Inside job without a doubt. by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's much, much more likely that hackers penetrated the network by other means, and then, once inside the network, compromised the POS systems -- which could then report back to the intermediary system, which could report out (or be repeatedly accessed from outside).

      It's unlikely that the POS systems themselves reached out to the internet. That would have been noticed far, far too easily.

    2. Re:Yes. Inside job without a doubt. by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's much, much more likely that hackers penetrated the network by other means, and then, once inside the network, compromised the POS systems -- which could then report back to the intermediary system, which could report out (or be repeatedly accessed from outside).

      It's unlikely that the POS systems themselves reached out to the internet. That would have been noticed far, far too easily.

      I'm not so sure. I happen to know of a certain well-known vendor of POS systems that is A) sloppy about a lot of things. B) pushing more and more of people's business onto their servers in their cloud. If their customer is also getting Lower Prices Everyday on their IT, so much the easier.

      And I do suspect the Cloud. Because infecting store-local systems in enough physical locations to capture 70 million or more accounts would be very labor-intensive. It's far easier to infect the Mothership and let it corrupt the local systems.

    3. Re:Yes. Inside job without a doubt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's how it used to be.
      These days, they usually have the same type of in-house network, often the POS terminals are just repackaged PC gear in a custom shell/case. Sometimes they run them as terminals, sometimes are a locked-down client with a custom OS. These do not, as you mention, have any internet access.
      But the main server will have some kind of connection, in order to upload transaction data and do inventory synchs with Warehousing. And it's cheaper to do that over the internet via VPN tunnel than it is to buy up actual point to point circuits. And well hell, let's offer free Wi-Fi as well! and even though generally those networks are kept segregated, it means there are a lot more scenarios for exploits to happen. So if you can get some malware to push out to the store servers, you very easily might not need to infect the client workstations at all. And in turn, you might find a way to ride into the network from the clients.

    4. Re:Yes. Inside job without a doubt. by mjwx · · Score: 2

      I worked on POS systems back in the late 90s - so, keep in mind my knowledge is not recent - no really, retailers move at a snails pace when it comes to technology.

      First, this was an inside job. POS systems are too stupid to connect to the Internet.

      I think your info's a little out of date. Most stores run embedded Windows XP on their Point Of Sale equipment (Althouth the other meaning of POS is perfectly suitable here). It's trivial to connect them to the internet. But all you really have to do is connect them to a network (which you have to for EFT to work, let alone connecting back to the mainframe that runs the POS back end) which then makes them vulnerable to a worm from a single infected computer. Not that I disagree that this is an inside job, it's still the most likely explanation even if the staff member was working for someone else.

      Also, because banks charge per EFTPOS terminal, a lot of stores will have all electronic transactions done by a single computer in store and all other terminals will be slaved to that computer, when you pay $30 per EFTPOS terminal per month, with 15 checkouts that adds up to a bit ($5400 per year) and as you said, retail operates on razor thin margins.

      Working on point of sale systems in 2010's has scared me out of using my card in store. Cash is safer as ATM's are much harder to break into.
       

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  9. Re:Cash only economy by alen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    let's see
    in the 80's when soldiers would get paid in cash or real paper checks they would get robbed outside the army base gates on their way to the bank. direct deposit solved that issue

    used to be that people kept cash at home. but if your home burns down or you are robbed or whatever, you lose all your money. with CC's you dispute charges and don't lose a dime

  10. Surely they mean "*outgoing* CEO"...? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

    I must be having some rendering issue in my browser. No matter how many articles I read mentioning "Target Chairman and CEO Gregg Steinhafel", I can never make out the word "outgoing" in front of the title. Not even "embattled". It must be a browser problem. I can imagine some weird bug that would cause such words to be rendered as hidden text; I can't imagine a world where a CEO would emerge unscathed from a screw-up of this magnitude. Right?

  11. Re:Quick fix for the POS POS machines ... by paulzeye · · Score: 2

    Needs to be a little more complex. Any easy way around your measure would be to have a compromised jump box somewhere else on Target's network. POS machines send data to jump box, jump box uploads it to internet. Access to the POS VLAN needs to be tightly controlled- but then you need to pull logs of some of them, put patches and updates on them, authenticate users, after a while your VLAN has lots of holes in it.

  12. Got email from Target offering free credit monitor by m00sh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I got an e-mail from Target offering me free credit monitoring.

    Yeah, they leaked my name, address, credit card number etc and now they want me to sign up for credit monitoring with them. Just input your social security number and answer a few questions ...

    We have been hearing about how Target figures out if you're pregnant before your family does. They have been doing all sorts of data mining on people.

    I suspect what is leaked is just not the name, address and credit card info on their subscribers. What if they have a profile on each of their customers that is also leaked? What if they compiled all sorts of data about their customers from various sources, like relationships, employment field, estimated incomes and other bits of info from the credit history? What if all that was leaked?

  13. Re:NSA-level shit by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

    These Russian hackers know their shit.. almost as good as the NSA.

    There's a good case to be made for the NSA to go after them at this point.

    Who's against the NSA now??

    Ah, er, if it were actually the NSA that engaged in protecting against/pursuing/prosecuting these types of things, then yes not as many people would be "Against" them. Alas, they don't (and make no promises to) do anything of the sort. Continuing to snoop on unsuspecting people around the world? That IS in their wheelhouse.

  14. Why not thin clients using PCoIP or RDP? by kriston · · Score: 2

    Why are they not using thin clients like VMware, Citrix, with PCoIP? I recently visited a Bob's furniture store and all their POS terminals were thin clients using either RDP, Citrix, or bus virtualization protocols like PCoIP. Same with the terminals at all the centers at another firm.

    With the current generation thin clients, particularly the nifty PCoIP ones, local performance is very attainable even though it isn't really needed for POS terminals. VMware has offered PCoIP since 2008 and Amazon has just released their implementation.

    I think Target deserves what they got for having POS terminals that are allowed to be locally modified in any way.

    --

    Kriston

  15. Re:Cash only economy by mlts · · Score: 2

    The people who have been pushing gold and silver on us for a while have said the same thing. However, there are a few problems with that:

    1: If someone even got an inkling that someone was carrying a large amount of cash for a purchase, they likely would be mugged. Someone nearby seeing someone at McDonalds having a large wad in their wallet might make them a prime target. The reason why muggings are down is because it is a lot harder to make any useful money from a pile of credit cards. It can be done, but it is easily traced.

    2: Fundamentally, our currency exchange system is working. It just needs a cryptographic overhaul, work with tokenization, and separation of duties. That way, it would require attacking individual registers physically instead of pushing code from remote, and even then, the "black box" that one inputs a PIN from would be isolated, so one might get a hashed, encrypted value, and that's it.

    3: Physical cash is slower. I can make a purchase online in seconds. To do the same thing in paper bills would take days to weeks.

  16. POS by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They were quite psychic when selecting this particular acronym.

  17. it gets worse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    First, target has NOT wiped and re-installed. As such, there are Trojans waiting to come alive and look for other malware to install.
    but it gets better. Everybody is missing the fact that all of the companies having this malware offshore their IT. What is happening is that Indians are paid $8-10k, and are then offered 100-200k to release the malware. Of course they do it. They are set up for life and do not hurt their peers.

    this will continue as long as American companies are dumb enough to offshore.

  18. Re:use bitcoin by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe instead, there is something Target should NOT have used in their store POS systems.

    http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?CaseStudyID=4000009407

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  19. Re:Cash only economy by mythosaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...then they better start patting down everyone entering or exiting casinos.

    As a degenerate gambler and poker player (two different things), I've regularly got plenty of cash on me, and it's never, ever, been a problem. Thousands of people show up to the WSOP every year and pay for buy-ins in cash. Every poker forum gets the same question asked to it ever year before the WSOP, "How do I bring 10-20k in cash with me to the WSOP?" ...and the same answer gets given every year. If you don't want to just wire your entry fee to the tournament cage (or your bankroll to a casino host), or you plan on just playing cash games, call your bank, tell them you're going to withdraw a bunch of cash - so they can have a bunch on hand - then take it with you to the event. If someone says, "Hey's what's all this cash," you say, "I'm a poker player." Works for thousands of us every time.

    Of course, I don't wander crack alleys with it, so, YMMV.

  20. Re:Got email from Target offering free credit moni by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2

    I got an e-mail from Target offering me free credit monitoring.

    Yeah, they leaked my name, address, credit card number etc and now they want me to sign up for credit monitoring with them. Just input your social security number and answer a few questions ...

    Surely, they aren't offering to sign you up with their roll-your-own credit-monitoring system, right? (Because I wouldn't go for that either.) Last time I had a credit card possibly compromised, the retailer at fault gave me a free one year subscription to Equifax's credit monitoring service. I got a coupon code from the retailer, but all the interaction was with the credit bureau.

    (For the sake of closure on that anecdote, nothing weird happened over the following year.)

    --
    I am not a crackpot.
  21. Re:Got email from Target offering free credit moni by m00sh · · Score: 2

    Surely, they aren't offering to sign you up with their roll-your-own credit-monitoring system, right? (Because I wouldn't go for that either.) Last time I had a credit card possibly compromised, the retailer at fault gave me a free one year subscription to Equifax's credit monitoring service. I got a coupon code from the retailer, but all the interaction was with the credit bureau.

    (For the sake of closure on that anecdote, nothing weird happened over the following year.)

    Yes, it is through Equifax they say.

    The website is here. https://creditmonitoring.target.com/

  22. uh, don't use Windows based POS systems? by swschrad · · Score: 2

    all the bad boys know the ins and outs of Windows APIs. read the Visa alert, it's only Windows registers that get fooled and compromised.

    this is one of those things where using commodity software in any stripe is probably not advised. like, for instance, cars. airplanes. hope to God not nuclear reactors.

    embedded Windows is a freakin' end of civilization waiting for the right malware...

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  23. PCI Is Cheap And STUPID! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Getting PCI compliance certification is not cheap, and you need it if you want integrated payment. So far, not a lot of open source POS systems are lining up to pay for certification...

    False! It's dirt cheap, just a couple hundred dollars. You filled out an application, paid a fee, and got an enhanced port scan. How exactly does your shiny new(annually renewed) PCI DSS compliance accreditation protect ANYTHING? PCI compliance testing does nothing beyond proving that you at least installed a consumer grade router/firewall between your card reader, card data storage, and the internet. Litterally nothing between your card data and the internet beyond a 10 year old $50 Linksys router.

    But, God forbid your SMTP server utilize weak cyphers, cause that'll fail you right there! Does it matter that no-fucking-body is using TLS to exchange SMTP email? Nope! But, if you get your SMTP TLS fixed, your Linksys firewall will be fully PCI DSS compliant! Give me a fucking break.

    But, here's the kicker, IT WILL NEVER BE FIXED. If PCI demanded and enforced real security, it would be FAR to prohibitively expensive for most retailers, especially small shops, to be able to satisfy the requirements. This would cut into the card industries profits. So, they will always make gestures like PCI DSS, but they will never be strong enough to be effective because that would damage Visa's profits.

    Remember, boys and girls, this entire debacle costs Visa NOTHING! False charges are olled back and the merchant eats the cost of the fraudulent charges. Your credit card number gets stolen and is used fraudulently to buy lunch at some small restaurant? The restaurant gets the chargeback and eats the loss. Your card number gets used to buy some eBay stuff, same thing happens to the sap that was trying to make a buck on eBay. They lose their goods and their money.

    1. Re:PCI Is Cheap And STUPID! by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      False! It's dirt cheap, just a couple hundred dollars. You filled out an application, paid a fee, and got an enhanced port scan.

      That is PCI compliance for a network, not an application. If you have an application that allows credit card swipes, and goes to a clearing house, it needs to be certified as well, and that ain't cheap.

      How exactly does your shiny new(annually renewed) PCI DSS compliance accreditation protect ANYTHING? PCI compliance testing does nothing beyond proving that you at least installed a consumer grade router/firewall between your card reader, card data storage, and the internet.

      It also shows that you exercised due diligence in securing your network, and prevents you from being sued for gross negligence. You don't need real security if you can show that you had some and therefore can't be sued.

  24. heh, all oursourced at the stores by swschrad · · Score: 3, Informative

    the link is interesting reading. click it.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  25. Re:use bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    They're trying to pull it. Here's the text:-

    4-page Case Study
    Posted: 3/17/2011
    Rate This Evidence:
    [Click on the stars to rate this case study] [Click on the stars to rate this case study] [Click on the stars to rate this case study] [Click on the stars to rate this case study] [Click on the stars to rate this case study]
    Target Corporation Large Retailer Relies on a Virtual Solution to Deliver Optimal Shopping Experience

    With its attractive stores offering trendy merchandise at affordable prices, Target changed how consumers think about discount shopping. To help Target deliver on its “Expect More. Pay Less.” brand promise, Target chooses reliable, scalable, and cost-effective technology. That’s why the company is deploying Windows Server 2008 Datacenter and its Hyper-V virtualization technology to retire 8,650 servers and implement a two-servers-per-store policy. By 2012, Target’s entire store server infrastructure will be running on Hyper-V, which will support a total of 15,000 virtual machines running mission-critical applications. Target also deployed Microsoft System Center data center solutions to manage more than 300,000 endpoints across its retail network. With its Microsoft Virtualization solution, the company will save millions of dollars in hardware, electrical, and maintenance costs.
    Situation
    The first Target store opened in 1962 in the Minneapolis suburb of Roseville, Minnesota, with a focus on convenient shopping at competitive discount prices. Today, Target remains committed to providing guests with the right merchandise mix—from everyday commodities and grocery offerings to trend-right home and apparel lines—at outstanding value. Target continually reinvents its stores, including layout, presentation, and merchandise assortment, to create an engaging shopping experience.

    *
    * It’s not hyperbole to suggest that most of our guest shopping experiences are affected by our Microsoft Virtualization solution. That’s a good thing for Target, and it’s a good thing for our guests. *

    Brad Thompson
    Director, Infrastructure Engineering, Target
    *
    To continue offering merchandise at appealing prices, Target looks for ways to control its operating costs. Consequently, the company’s IT department, called Target Technology Services, chooses technology that’s cost-effective and delivers real business value. “Target Technology Services is considered a strategic enabler for just about everything we do in retail strategy,” says Brad Thompson, Director of Infrastructure Engineering at Target. “That said, we are still a cost center, and so we are always looking to drive down costs where possible, as long as we meet the requirements of our guests, our application development teams, and our business partners.“

    Amy Reilly, Spokesperson for Target, points out that technology also underlies the customer experience at each Target store: “When our guests come into our stores, they have a certain expectation of their experience. They expect clean, wide aisles and to find what they need and check out quickly because they lead busy lives. So reliability in our technology, including our POS [point-of-sale] and replenishment applications, is very important to helping us deliver on our ‘Expect More. Pay Less.’ brand promise.”
    Distributed IT Infrastructure
    Target has a highly distributed IT infrastructure with more than 300,000 endpoints, including servers, computers, POS registers, kiosks, and mobile devices dispersed among its 1,755 retail stores. Except for centralized authentication, domain name resolution, and endpoint monitoring services, each retail store functions as an autonomous unit. “Every one of our stores has its own control room, with its own network and compute capacity inside the store,” says Thompson. “So if you think of our infrastructure across all those stores, we have to get very crea

  26. Re:NSA-level shit by Old97 · · Score: 2

    The NSA is an intelligence gathering agency; they are not law enforcement. They have no jurisdictional boundaries to their operations. As a U.S. government agency they are supposed to have to observe some niceties insofar as operating in the U.S. and targeting U.S. citizens what with the Constitution and all. Their failure to always do that is where they've gone wrong. And, as you've indicated, they've probably collected so much information that its getting in the way of useful intelligence analysis. Too much can be worse than not enough. The other fun fact is that they and their allied agencies in other countries seemed to get around some restrictions by letting the "foreigners" do the spying on the domestics for them and then exchanging what they collected.

    --
    Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
  27. Re:Cash only economy by JeffAtl · · Score: 2

    Of course cops outside of casinos wouldn't do that as it would destroy the local economy. I'm referring to getting pulled over at a traffic stop.

    If you get pulled over and a cop finds out that you are carrying $10-20k, there is a likely chance it will get seized. Just google "cash seized on way to buy car". Boats, planes, homes can be substituted for "car".

  28. Maybe DOOM was not from swiping POS by pcwhalen · · Score: 2

    70 million names, addresses, emails, and other personal information data sets we're also stolen.

    I'm not sure, but I don't think black boxes at credit card terminals would have solved that problem.

    I think Target was data mining, and their database got hacked.

    --
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
  29. Re:NSA-level shit by dave562 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is where the "fusion centers" are supposed to come into play. The NSA is not law enforcement, but the FBI is (was) and so are other Federal and State agencies. As others have pointed out, the NSA should have seen this. They have taps in all of the backbone routers. Surely they have a decent algorithm that highlights data going to (Eastern Europe, China, etc). We know that they are analyzing plain text and decrypting SSL/TLS when plain text is not available.

    They should absolutely have a map of legitimate financial networks, payment authorization data flows, etc. Anything outside of that known universe should be flagged and investigated. They are already doing this to combat money laundering, and to enforce the economic sanctions that the State Department and other Federal agencies enact.

    The reality is that the NSA is not all about protecting our economy or predicting crime. They are there to uncover and crush any opposition to the government. Sure, they "cannot" catch these massive frauds, or pay attention to intelligence about terrorists planning on blowing up marathons. But trust you me, as soon as any of us start talking about armed insurrection or forcefully removing Senators, we will quickly figure out that the NSA has no problem acting upon what they want to act upon.

  30. Re:Cash only economy by mythosaz · · Score: 2

    I'm not sure what you mean by "likely a chance."

    It's certainly not likely that it'll get seized, but of course there's a chance -- it happens.

    I did your Google search, and the first article I read referenced The New Yorker as its source. Reading it, I got:

    The officers found the couple’s cash and a marbled-glass pipe that Boatright said was a gift for her sister-in-law, and escorted them across town to the police station.

    I'm not a fan of broad asset seizures for drug busts, but it wasn't carrying cash that got these two in trouble. It was putting cash in the same container as their pot-smoking equipment. The officers allege the smell of drugs, claim the couple was smoking, but didn't find any pot in the bust.

    The moral of the story is that police are certainly overzealous in the use of forfeiture items to line their pockets and supplement their budgets, but they're not just out seizing cash from people, and carrying cash in and of itself isn't "likely" to get it seized.

  31. Re:NSA-level shit by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

    The NSA is an intelligence gathering agency; they are not law enforcement. They have no jurisdictional boundaries to their operations. As a U.S. government agency they are supposed to have to observe some niceties insofar as operating in the U.S. and targeting U.S. citizens what with the Constitution and all. Their failure to always do that is where they've gone wrong. And, as you've indicated, they've probably collected so much information that its getting in the way of useful intelligence analysis. Too much can be worse than not enough. The other fun fact is that they and their allied agencies in other countries seemed to get around some restrictions by letting the "foreigners" do the spying on the domestics for them and then exchanging what they collected.

    Some of us don't consider the 4th Amendment to be a "nicety". That's what warrants are for.