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Lawsuit: Oracle Called $50K 'Good Money For an Indian'

Posted by timothy on from the cue-the-h1bigots dept.

jfruh writes "A former Oracle sales manager is suing the database company for what he called racially discriminatory salary-setting practices. Ian Spandow wanted to transfer a high-performing salesman from Oracle's India office to California. When he requested a salary of $60,000 a year or more for the employee, equivalent to what his white American counterparts received, he was told instead to offer $50,000, which was 'good money for an Indian.' When Spandow protested, he was himself summarily fired."

18 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. Shocking by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm shocked. Oracle has always seemed like one the more reputable companies, willing to compete fairly, not obsessed with gouging its customers, and nary an evil bone in their corporate body. I can't imagine them hiring or promoting people that would act like this.

    1. Re:Shocking by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Funny

      Next thing you know, they're going to be bundling adware with Java and suing open source projects.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:Shocking by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Umm... I don't think Boycott is what you think it is.
      You really don't need to be justified to boycott a product/company. You can do it whenever you really want.

      Besides no matter how bad Oracle gets, if your Boss says use this Oracle product or your fired, then you will probably be a little less outraged.

      Now this if proven true in court, could be justifiable for Oracle workers to unionize and strike.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Shocking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I gotta say, it was hilarious (in retrospect) how the open source community got ultra-paranoid about Mono and C#, and it turned out that it was Java that turned into the lawsuit fodder instead.

      Do any of the people who were beating up on de Icaza feel bad about that now, or are they incapable of shame?

    4. Re:Shocking by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I suspect if Google had chosen Mono instead of Java, Microsoft would have sued the fuck out of Google exactly like Oracle did. Hell, Microsoft is shaking down Android OEMs over FAT patents.

      So that mistrust was not wrong, Oracle and Microsoft both suck and their product offerings reflect that.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    5. Re:Shocking by sunderland56 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Now, when someone is already working for for you for far far less, and you are paying for one of them and his family to move to America, why would you expect them to pay him as much as the other employees, already there.

      Because that is the law. Paying someone on a H1-B or L1-B visa less than the US rate is prohibited.

      Oracle has more than enough lawyers; at least one of them should have known this.

    6. Re:Shocking by MartinSchou · · Score: 5, Informative

      So you're perfectly okay with one of the largest companies in the world engaging in salary gouging?

      We're not talking about salary in India vs salary in California - we're talking about salary in California vs salary in California. If they want to import workers from abroad, because there aren't enough qualified local workers, they need to pay the same salary to the imported workers as they would to local workers.

      That's not only decent behaviour - it's the law. People like yourself - well, you're only going to ruin the game for yourself down the road, and sadly you seem unable to understand this.

    7. Re:Shocking by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In contrast, in many Asian countries, it are the western ex-pats that are asked by their employer to move that get payed more than the local staff. And on top of that extra pay, they often get housing allowance, schooling allowance for their children, and other benefits local employees do not get. These salaries are not only higher than what locals get, they're also higher than what they'd get back home. The justification is that these people are exceptionally good at what they do, and are worth their money, and that the company needs this foreign talent. So they receive the extra cash and benefits as incentive to move.

      Now of course it's more common that people move from high-paying countries to low-paying countries, however it's quite reasonable for that Indian employee to not only get offered a salary at least as much as what the US locals get, but also other allowances. Indeed that $50k will be a lot more than he gets in India, though cost of living in the US are far higher as well. It may very well be that at say $20k in India he can have a higher standard of living (big house, car, various domestic staff such as a butler, gardener and a maid) than he can have at this $50k in the US.

      The guy is considered so good, they want to move him to the other side of the world. That generally means he's at least as good as, if not better than, the top performers of his US counterparts. Otherwise a company would not normally bother with the efforts of moving an employee.

    8. Re:Shocking by camperdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you suggesting that the 60k/yr Americans working at the California office are only getting H1-B or L1-B visa level salaries? No. This has nothing to do with violating visa pay rates. This has to do with discrimination: paying someone less than someone else for the same work simply because of the color of their skin. It also has to do with being spiteful, spoiled brats: to whit, firing an employee for pointing out illegal or unethical behaviour.

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    9. Re:Shocking by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's about race (ethnicity really) being used as a basis to pay someone less money.

      Nationality. Not race or ethnicity. There's zero reason to think that an Indian-American would have been offered a lower salary.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    10. Re:Shocking by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 5, Informative

      What surprizes me is that the sales guy in India needs to come to the U.S.? Also, 60K is chump change for sales. All this nonsense combined with so much drum beating has me wondering, "why?"

      The subtext not mentioned in either the summary or the article is that Oracle's overseas hiring policy is a money-saver, which goes completely against the spirit and letter of the H1B visa legislation. The policy is that visas should be granted where skilled staff fill a skills gap in the USA, not because US staff are too expensive. There have been complaints that big companies have been flouting this, and if this guy wins his case, Oracle will end up with a judgement that effectively states that they're breaking immigration laws. That's the big story....

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  2. Oracle is not a person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oracle didn't say anything. Some dude that works there said it. The company should be charged for any discrimination their employees say, but don't make it like it was a statement from their PR or anything like it. There are people that saying stupid things like that anywhere, at any given time.

    1. Re:Oracle is not a person by biodata · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If a company is not a person, how do they have any rights?

      --
      Korma: Good
  3. Re:B-But Muh Talent by oscrivellodds · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, you don't understand. Amnesty and immigration are needed to keep the social security Ponzi-scheme going. There simply aren't enough young people paying into the system to support all those retired old people. We need to make the undocumented workers legal so they can be taxed.

    What Ellison, Zuckerberg and other of their ilk want is more H1B visas. H1B visas are needed to keep salaries down by replacing relatively highly paid American tech workers with lower paid imports who will be unable to leave their awful working conditions to seek better elsewhere lest they be sent back to the countries they worked so hard to leave.

  4. Comedy Gold by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

    An Oracle executive, sales manager and human resources manager walk into a court room...

    1. Re:Comedy Gold by T.E.D. · · Score: 5, Funny

      An Oracle executive, sales manager and human resources manager walk into a court room...

      Oh! I know this one...

      ...suddenly a crazed gunman on trail in the next room escapes and takes them all hostage. He threatens to kill the hostages one by one over the next 10 minutes unless his demands are met.

      What kind of sandwich do you go make yourself?

  5. The cruelest part by Dishwasha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was that they were only willing to offer him $50,000, not even $60,000 in CALIFORNIA. Isn't $60,000 a year under the poverty line there?

  6. Re:Indians are hired for low wages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    As an American sub-contractor of an American who works in a Indian office of a Finish company that was recently acquired by an American company, I feel like I've been screwed somehow.