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Lawsuit: Oracle Called $50K 'Good Money For an Indian'
jfruh writes "A former Oracle sales manager is suing the database company for what he called racially discriminatory salary-setting practices. Ian Spandow wanted to transfer a high-performing salesman from Oracle's India office to California. When he requested a salary of $60,000 a year or more for the employee, equivalent to what his white American counterparts received, he was told instead to offer $50,000, which was 'good money for an Indian.' When Spandow protested, he was himself summarily fired."
I'm shocked. Oracle has always seemed like one the more reputable companies, willing to compete fairly, not obsessed with gouging its customers, and nary an evil bone in their corporate body. I can't imagine them hiring or promoting people that would act like this.
There is an Oracle office in India for a reason. They're cheap. Defeats the purpose if you bring them all over here on US wages, wouldn't it? Might as well hire Americans, god forbid!
Oracle didn't say anything. Some dude that works there said it. The company should be charged for any discrimination their employees say, but don't make it like it was a statement from their PR or anything like it. There are people that saying stupid things like that anywhere, at any given time.
No, you don't understand. Amnesty and immigration are needed to keep the social security Ponzi-scheme going. There simply aren't enough young people paying into the system to support all those retired old people. We need to make the undocumented workers legal so they can be taxed.
What Ellison, Zuckerberg and other of their ilk want is more H1B visas. H1B visas are needed to keep salaries down by replacing relatively highly paid American tech workers with lower paid imports who will be unable to leave their awful working conditions to seek better elsewhere lest they be sent back to the countries they worked so hard to leave.
An Oracle executive, sales manager and human resources manager walk into a court room...
In the US, that's the law regarding H1-B workers as well, but it's not enforced.
Indian = someone from India.
Well, yea. That's evident by the fact they offered him money, instead of signing the contract, getting him drunk, then peeing on the contract up as they steal all his land.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
If the Indian's didn't work for less, would it disincentivize their hiring?
Or is there also an expectation they will tolerate longer hours in a less hospitable work environment?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Was that they were only willing to offer him $50,000, not even $60,000 in CALIFORNIA. Isn't $60,000 a year under the poverty line there?
Wage discrimination based on race, gender, ethnicity, etc is illegal. "$50K/year is good for someone with your skill set" is perfectly acceptable. Telling him to his face that he's not worth any more than that because he's got brown skin and a Mumbai accent is not.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
His position is its because of his whistle blowing and racial discrimination - the guy is Irish.
Had Oracle just said that $50k was goody money for someone, and left the issue of Spandow's race unmentioned, they'd certainly have been fine. The problem was, however, that the person didn't just say that.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
So it goes..
d
The salary and cost of hiring is secondary to the main issue here.
Mr Bambling will have to explain why he issued a "stern warning" in response to the request, rather than an explanation as to his reasoning; Mr Trudeau will have to explain his contemptuous choice of words, and failure in turn to explain his reasoning; both them and probably others will have to explain why firing the sales manager was considered fair and necessary, in the light of the previous two points.
-- "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability." --Dijkstra
Well, Columbus fucked that one up over 500 years ago, so it's a little late for that.
That's still illegal.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
It certainly is good money for someone — whatever their race
In which case, why was the "for an Indian" phrase even mentioned, unless to single them out as opposed to other persons?
Unless Mr. Spandow's own dismissal was due to racism or some other illegal discrimination against him, I doubt, the suit will be found to have much merit.
I'd be surprised if the court finds that context and lead-up is not relevant to their decision. If the senior managers are found to have been violating equal opportunities regulations, their handling of Mr Spandow, who was effectively trying to rectify their ill behaviour, could be a direct consequence of their violation, and encompass him. Possibly a grey zone to be clarified.
-- "Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability." --Dijkstra
Exactly. (If you meant that in sarcasm, you're more right than you think.) Our government (feebly attempts to) turn back lots of good taxpayers who just want a decent wage and standard of living. We can put public records (and, yes, the NSA) to good use: gather info on the immigrants before they attempt to enter, and when they try and if they are able to learn our history without posing an imminent threat to lives, make them legal in 82 minutes--not 82 YEARS (WTF?). This would encourage upstanding behavior, bring in more taxes, bring in more ideas that would give more people here and abroad a job to keep busy, and leave the law enforcers free to properly fight real enemies of the state, like banks.
Certain 'Murican types say that Those Damn Illegals don't follow the law and Took Er Jerbs. I remind them that no one follows the law and we should update the law to conform with basic respect, common sense, and our dire budget--and maybe our new Americans can give them their next job.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
yes but if you move from Georgia to California you get California wages to compensate for the higher cost of living
"In September 2012, Spandow asked for permission to transfer an Oracle employee working in India to California."
They were not talking about paying someone living in India a $50,000 salary. They were planning on transfering the employee from India to California which would have increased the employee's cost of living significantly.
The guy now works at Mongo DB
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ian-spandow/1/739/557
As a tech who is unemployed, I will work for that kind of money today!!!
That was the salary for a salesman already experienced with the company, for a job in California.
Do you still qualify?
To be fair, they *did* do that ca. 1600 to the entire Indian subcontinent, at the behest of a corporation, no less ("The British East India Company"). Took ~300 years before they could be overthrown, only to end up with a much more dangerous problem (India and Pakistan, both with nuclear capabilities).
As An American, I refuse to take credit or blame for stuff the British Empire did.
We have plenty of fucked up behavior in our own history, thankyouverymuch.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Oracle just got caught.
Anybody familiar with the corporate-tech H1B propaganda knows that Oracle's view is entirely normal.
Tech companies want the public to think that H1B are extremely highly skilled, and highly paid.
Anybody who actually works for the tech giants knows that H1Bs are mainly a cost cutting measure.
The US GAO even proved this in 2009.
People ghave every right to complain about illegals. They are often hired at less than minimum wage by employers who know they won't dare to complain to the Dept. of Labor.
I say make them legal and make sure they know their rights.