Google Releases Dart 1.1

rjmarvin writes "Google released version 1.1 of its Dart open-source web programming language today, with new features and improved tools. The Dart Editor is updated with improved debugging, code implementation and more descriptive toolkits, and new UDP (User Datagram Protocol) and documentation support command-line and server-side Dart applications. Google also highlighted benchmarks such as the Richards benchmark, where Dart 1.1 is running 25% faster than JavaScript, as part of the larger competition between Dart and JavaScript in creating more complex applications in the web development space."

Comments

25%??

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't seem much of a speed advantage to lure developers away from the ubiquitous JavaScript.

Re:25%??

[lgw]

So how long till Google drops this project too? I'm all for new approaches to code that runs in the browser, but I'm a bit hesitant to invest in any technology stack from a company with such a history of dropping projects.

Is there any sort of non-google dev community supporting Dart itself? Or is it completely dependent on Google at this point?

Re:25%??

[rlwhite]

And it appears to be a misquote of TFA too: "Dart’s Javascript output continues to shine. Performance on the Richards benchmark is 25% better than the first release, making runtime comparable to the original JavaScript."

Re:25%??

[DickBreath]

MOD PARENT UP.

That is correct. They are saying Dart is 25% faster than earlier Dart. Now almost as good as JavaScript. They are NOT saying it is 25% faster than JavaScript.

Re:25%??

[JavaTHut]

Although in some benchmarks the Dart VM is 25% faster than JavaScript (and much more in other benchmarks). The article quotes are a mess. Just look at the actual benchmark numbers at https://www.dartlang.org/performance/ for a good idea of what's actually being claimed.

Re:25%??

[JavaTHut]

Dart is really just the evolution of Google's GWT efforts, which they've been pretty good about supporting long-term and cultivating community contributions while also making a lengthy migration path to Dart

Re:25%??

[MochaMan]

Dart team member here. The Dart project, like Chromium, is being run as a fully open source project accepting patches from Googlers and non-Googlers alike. We've also begun the ECMA Standardization process, meaning that like JavaScript we'll have a open standard that anyone can implement to. In terms of Dart users, here's a list of some. Hope that answers your questions!

Re:25%??

[nurb432]

It really doesn't answer the question of what happens when Google proper loses interest and pulls funding. Does it survive on its own, or vanish?

If its was a more established language, with decades behind it, there would far less risk in choosing it. But that is always the chicken/egg problem with stuff like this.

Re:25%??

[swillden]

It really doesn't answer the question of what happens when Google proper loses interest and pulls funding.

Google's purpose in creating Dart was so that Google could use it to build its own apps. So if Dart is better than Javascript for that purpose (it is), and if Dart can get enough penetration into the browser market that Google can actually use it for its own services (debatable), then Google will continue supporting it.

So, rather than asking what Google is going to do, you're better off asking what Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla are going to do.

Broken Link

[rjmarvin]

The first link is broken, it loops back to the submission.

Re:Broken Link

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's gone the way of Google Reader already...

If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[Billly Gates]

Everyone here would be screaming bloody murder and all MS is trying to sabotage the web again?! But if Google does it then it is cool and innovative.

I am tired of chrome not implementing W3C standards without using the -webkit to get it to work properly. I am not the only once concerned it is the next IE 6 but thankfully there are only a few sites which only work well in Chrome.

Mozilla Firefox is catching up and has the fasted DOM according to tomshardware and ASM.JS looks to be rather interesting. Unfortunately it is agaisn't Google's interest to support it as they want a closed ecosystem similar to IE 6 and activeX before it.

I still use Chrome as Firefox is still behind in a few areas, but even IE is catching up and I find both IE and Firefox to use less ram than Chrome.

Re:If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[Nerdfest]

Is Dart an open language spec? I've assumed it is, but may be incorrect. That's usually what detracts from Microsoft's attempts ... they try to lock you to Microsoft. If this is just as locked, it's just as useless. If it's open, can be forked, etc, if Google goes Microsoft-like, then it's a great idea.

Re:If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[Billly Gates]

What I would like to see is a virtual machine. Yeah it will add bloat and waste cpu etc.

But a VM will increase security and any language can run inside it. So once can use python for example or make up his or her own language and have that JIT compile if it is not cached and run etc. Kind of like people usuing Java to run python with jython but more vm than sandbox like.

I see Google's native client and NACL and this as just that. They are making Chrome into a ChromeOS virtual machine where it is all a Google ecosystem. Maybe this would be a great idea for HTML 6 and CSS 4 standards. Have a VM that does x,y, and z.

Re:If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[TopSpin]

Is Dart an open language spec?

The language spec is CCA 3 and ECMA standards tracked. The source code is BSD.

Javascript was not an immaculate conception of Berners-Lee, Torvalds and Stallman. It was a product of Mozilla, blessed by nobody and foisted on the world via the defacto browser of the day. It is also more than flawed enough to justify some competition.

The <script> tag has a "language" attribute for a reason, the curmudgeons of Slashdot notwithstanding.

Re:If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[rlwhite]

From the spec: (https://www.dartlang.org/docs/spec/latest/dart-language-specification.html#h.jn6bj1irtqj1)
"Except as otherwise noted, the content of this document is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License, and code samples are licensed under the BSD License."

Re:If MS wrote dart for IE instead

[Ceriel Nosforit]

How so? Are you familiar with the language at all?

Can't speak for him, but I do. Dart has for example a Future class which actually immediately tells you what is going on even when you have derived your own version of it, when Javascript has as many solutions to the concurrency problem as there are programmers. I often think of Javascript as a write-only language, while Dart code actually opens itself up rather well to studying.

I think that most importantly Dart seems to know what it is and what its purpose is. Javascript was excellent when the web was new since no one knew how to solve the repeating engineering problems, but since jQuery came around it appears more like a tool for inventing infinite ways to shoot yourself in the foot. Dart knows you'll probably want to do something MVC-like and eventually shoe-horn it into the dreaded DOM. They are paying lots of attention to the Canvas element though, and know that Pointer Events is the Way.

Juxtapose, the C/C++ I learned back in the day looks completely different from what it looks like now. I hardly knew what was going on when I did some network / sensor work with Nokia's Qt SDK, but cargo-culting saw me through. You could see the language's age, while Dart doesn't have that legacy cruft.

better than javascript?

[schneidafunk]

My understanding is that Dart will not be really useful until it has native browser support on all browsers. I have not used it, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm curious to know if anyone who has experience with it can explain the benefits.

Re:better than javascript?

[LWATCDR]

dart does have a compile to javascript option.

*Not* 25% faster than javascript

[erice]

I was wondering how it could be 25% faster than javascript when it compiled into javascript so I checked out TFA.

Performance on the Richards benchmark is 25% better than the first release, making runtime comparable to the original JavaScript.

So it has 25% faster javascript output. It is not 25% faster than javascript.

Re:*Not* 25% faster than javascript

[Shados]

Dart has an actual VM of its own. Its probably what they're benchmarking. It can be cross compiled, but it doesn't have to.

Re:Broken Link: HEY PEOPLE WHO RUN SLASHDOT

[rjmarvin]

Get your shit together, the top link of a prominent story remains broken.

Re:Broken Link: HEY PEOPLE WHO RUN SLASHDOT

[amicusNYCL]

Yeah, seriously. It could use a little editing too. The submitter apparently wrote that it is 25% faster than Javascript, when the article says that Dart 1.1 produces 25% faster Javascript than Dart 1.0.

Wait, you're the submitter. Why did you write that it's 25% faster than Javascript?

Re:Time to Get Out

[Kielistic]

How is this insightful? Of course all new languages do the same thing as the old ones. They're all Turing complete! If you don't understand that then, yes, you probably should leave IT. And don't forget to program everything in Assembler! Kids these days and their C. Just a crutch.