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AMD Considered GDDR5 For Kaveri, Might Release Eight-Core Variant
MojoKid writes "Of all the rumors that swirled around Kaveri before the APU debuted last week, one of the more interesting bits was that AMD might debut GDDR5 as a desktop option. GDDR5 isn't bonded in sticks for easy motherboard socketing, and motherboard OEMs were unlikely to be interested in paying to solder 4-8GB of RAM directly. Such a move would shift the RMA responsibilities for RAM failures back to the board manufacturer. It seemed unlikely that Sunnyvale would consider such an option but a deep dive into Kaveri's technical documentation shows that AMD did indeed consider a quad-channel GDDR5 interface. Future versions of the Kaveri APU could potentially also implement 2x 64-bit DDR3 channels alongside 2x 32-bit GDDR5 channels, with the latter serving as a framebuffer for graphics operations. The other document making the rounds is AMD's software optimization guide for Family 15h processors. This guide specifically shows an eight-core Kaveri-based variant attached to a multi-socket system. In fact, the guide goes so far as to say that these chips in particular contain five links for connection to I/O and other processors, whereas the older Family 15h chips (Bulldozer and Piledriver) only offer four Hypertransport links."
finally something I care to read about
DDR3 is low latency, low bandwidth. GDDR5 is high latency, high bandwidth. Low latency is critical for CPU performance while bandwidth doesn't matter as much. On video cards, GPUs need high bandwidth but the latency doesn't matter as much. This is why gaming PCs use DDR3 for system RAM and GDDR5 on their video cards. Video cards that cut costs by using DDR3 instead of GDDR5 take a massive hit in performance. The XBox One and PS4 use GDDR5 shared between the CPU and GPU, and as a result have the rough equivalent of a very low-end CPU paired with a mid-range GPU.
They don't care to because it would cut into their server revenue where margins are higher. Personally I think that really sucks. Intel is the same way. Maybe the migration to mobile where we don't have these margin protection issues is a good thing.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
"Kaveri" means friend in Finnish.
The whole point of AMD APUs is low cost gaming. That is, lower cost than buying a dedicated GPU plus a processor. Many already argue that you don't save much by buying an APU. A cheap Pentium G3220 with a AMD Radeon 7730 costs the same as the A10 Kaveri APU, and will give better frame rate. Even if the Kaveri APU prices come down, the savings will be small. If you have to buy the GDDR5 memory, there won't be any savings. It's understandable that AMD didn't take that route.
Anandtech's writeup (which Hothardware seems to be ripping off) has a much better explanation of what's going on and why it matters.
It's also worth noting that the Anandtech article implies that AMD is still on the fence on Kaveri APUs with more memory bandwidth, and that it may be something they do if there's enough interest/feedback about it.
Tax the rich! Feed the poor! Wait, Britain already does.
The rest of the world needs to play catch-up and join civilization already.
85 'familires' control at least 1/2 of everything & we get (to rent) the rest from sub-royals?
No, its a river in india... AMD uses river names for APU/CPUs families and GPUs are islands (where the type and location of the island is used as family grouping)
Higuita
CPUs - the last that I saw - were PGAs - except for embedded systems, I'm not sure of many BGA based CPUs. DDR3 onwards changed its packaging from TSOP to BGA due to excess pin count, where on TSOP, only a larger package would work, but then, the length of the wire bonds would become a factor in the speed of the sub-system (CPU to DDR3). Also, while TSOP is cheaper than BGA for lower pin counts, when the pin counts become comparable - ~50, the equation flips - BGAs become cheaper than 56 pin TSOPs. As a result, memory started getting packaged in BGA, which were already in use by flash memory, especially in portable applications such as cell phones, PDAs and so on.
But even those DDR3 modules are available on sticks, even in their BGA packages.
I'm shopping for a new gaming computer on a budget. And even models shipping with this APU still usually have a R9 270x dedicated card as well, for a price point of about $850 USD.
Where this gets interesting is if MANTLE gets widely adopted. Suddenly it can treat those 6 or 8 GCN nodes on the APU as additional GPU Processing power to be used in the queue. While maybe not as powerful as a second video card, it should give a boost in performance at no additional cost.
Of course assuming game developers start using Mantle...
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Why couldn't this be a package-on-package chip in the current generation? The raspberry pi does this with it's graphics & system RAM; a redesign of the heat spreader and the chip package wiring would allow older motherboards to support it since the new pins come out the top, directly attaching to the GDDR5. Since AMD already sells DDR3 memory, selling GDDR5 with the chip would be business as usual.
Regardless, motherboard manufacturers might still want to integrate the GDDR5 to sell the next generation like they did with sideport memory back when the HD3000 series was integrated in the northbridge.
Third point: since build-your-own computers are commodity devices, traditional layout isn't prohibitively expensive -- splitting the CPU so it's more like a xeon phi and adopting a UMI interconnect is acceptible especially if it could sell on mobile.
TLDR: AMD's new top end chip (A10 Kaveri) is slower than Intel's entry level chip from the previous generation (Core i3 Ivy Bridge). /Thread.
I get real tired of this "XBox one cannot do 1080p" crap that Sony/ Nintendo fans keep trotting out. Yes, it can. FIFA Soccer 14, Forza Motorsport 5, NBA 2K14, Need for Speed Rivals, all run at 1080 internally. Yes, a number of games run at less and I imagine that'll only be more common as time goes on, but it doesn't change the fact that the system is perfectly capable of 1080. Heck for that matter, not all PS4 titles run at 1080, BF4 being an example.
I have no stake in this fight, I don't do console games I'm all PC all the time. I say "lolconsoles" to 1080p30, I do my gaming at 2560x1600 @ 60fps please and thanks. However don't go spreading misinformation, particularly technical information on a tech site.
no don't tax the rich to feed the little less rich ( people living on government help in UK and USA are rich, they can always afford some food to eat and some bed to sleep in)
if you are suggesting to tax bill gates/queen of england and help people in Africa or poor parts of India/China where small 6 month old babies die from starvation i am all for that, but if you suggest taxing them to feed lazy people that don't want to work for less than £5 (UK) or $7.25 (USA), no, just no let them work if they want money, if they want social security let them build roads or clean streets for that, i am sure almost everybody in UK?USA can afford food and bed, and if not public kitchens and public hostels are much cheaper than what they get now
I've often wondered if it would be useful to have RAM in socketed chips (similar to a CPU) rather than on a stick.