Slashdot Mirror
Russia Plans To Extend Edward Snowden's Asylum
mendax writes "The New York Times reports, 'Russia plans to extend its offer of asylum to Edward J. Snowden beyond August, a Russian lawmaker said Friday at the World Economic Forum ... The lawmaker, Aleksei K. Pushkov, chairman of the foreign affairs committee in Russia's lower house of Parliament, hinted during a panel discussion that the extension of temporary refugee status for Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, might be indefinite. "He will not be sent out of Russia," Mr. Pushkov said. "It will be up to Snowden."'"
Snowden said yesterday that going back to the U.S. is not an option because of the country's poor whistleblower protections "which through a failure in law did not cover national security contractors like [him]." He added, "This is especially frustrating, because it means there’s no chance to have a fair trial, and no way I can come home and make my case to a jury."
.... and end this saga! Give him a home in the Sakha Republic - that place will get populated
I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be murdered if he is worried about getting a fair trial in the US.
whistle blows you!
Nope, that law does exactly was it's supposed to do - protect the guilty.
It's on here because Snowden is the biggest whistleblower of his generation, and this article will get generate views and comments for a less-than-interesting Friday afternoon/evening.
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information, otherwise Snowden had a year to find a new place to avoid a drone strike. One wonders if he made a deal, or the Russians just enjoy annoying the US.
The problem is that the way the laws are written, he would not be able to mount an effective defense against the charges. He would only be allowed to (basically) answer the circumstances around his alleged taking of those NSA files and would be forbidden from bringing any sort of argument regarding the public's right to know, the government's own wrongdoing exposed by those leaked files, and such and so forth. He is obviously guilty of taking the files so it is a guaranteed guilty verdict.
There is no point for him to return until the laws allow for some type of whistleblower or public interest defense, which they currently do not.
Yes, but everyone knows about their spying. To learn the Russian government is secretly spying on their population would be about as scandalous as learning another Republican is secretly spending his time off at a gay club.
Or both.
He already has the corrupt government of one superpower after his head, I don't think we should ask him to go for two. Maybe a Russian whistleblower will leak loads of damning details about Putin's government surveillance and be granted asylum in the US. That would be hilariously awkward.
I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. ... ... Please, editors, let's leave these purely-political stories off of the front page. I don't dispute that they have value, but they just don't belong here.
While I don't disagree that slashdot seems to put trollish/public-subset-opinion-polling/alarmist style headlines all over the front page more often than optimal, I have to disagree here about Snowden. I believe the Snowden revelations, and the way they came about, and continue to transpire as so, have so paradigm-shifted the computer and network security landscape, that articles such as this one are more than appropriate. First, it's merely a side-effect conveniency issue. While yes, some of your points may have merit, you have to forgive a bit that the slashdot audience really is that interested in how the Snowden saga transpires. I mean, this is some Epic War and Peace Shit going on here. A martyr being martyred slowly over years. How exactly, and how much pain and vindication end up in that story, I really think will have a profound place in the history of the internet's chapter in the history of humanity. This is a *BIG DEAL*.
And even setting asside that real-politik drama and the slashdot audience's 'non-technical' interest, you must look at the legitimate 'technical' interest of the slashdot audience. How Snowden is handled by the overwhelming powers that be, truly does shape how many of us here will be developing technology throughout the remaining future of our carreers. At some point, one is tempted to say - 'if computer security matters are treated this profoundly by the un-(directly)-opposable powers that be, then you know what, I'm actually going to stop worrying about whether the firmware in my BIGNAMEBRAND computer system or consumer device is a security risk or not. But if Snowden is fully vindicated, and reclaims the rights and protections of a free citizen of the United States of America, including rigourous protection of his freedom of speech, then I may well say- I'd like to spend more of my carreer working on more secure open source firmware.
Dunno...
The thing you have to understand here is that Putin is an authoritarian douchebag -- but he's not an idiot. He knows that there will be extra scrutiny on his polices during the Olympics. By having Snowden around, it's a reminder that the US isn't in a position to finger-wag over such things.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Both you and "ackthpt" should be ashamed of yourself.
Unlike Mr. Edward Snowden, none of you have the guts to do the right thing, and yet, after the personal sacrifices Mr. Snowden has gone through - may even turn out to be a lifelong exile from the country he loves so much - you guys post smart-ass comments as if you are some how "better" than Mr. Snowden.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The US does have some protections for whistleblowers, but none he can use - national security information is specifically excluded, as is the public interest defence. Any trial would consist of this:
Judge: "Did you release classified information?"
Defense: "Only in the public interest."
Prosecution: "Public interest defense is not considered a valid cause for releasing classified information."
Judge: "Guilty. I sentence you to six hundred years in maximum security."
There isn't really anything he could say. That's even if the trial were fair - and it wouln't be. Chances are almost all the documentation will be classified so high neither he nor his lawyers would be permitted to see it, so he'll be defending against evidence he can't even know about. The only good thing for him is that he was a civilian contractor, so he at least would get a trial, rather than a military tribunal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01...
His response should be "you first".
I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. But at this point, this is purely political wrangling. There's no technology involved here. There's no science involved here. There's no mathematics involved here. Just realpolitik.
The "technological" angle is really the issue of the US government sub-contracting technological work, and giving those people no legal protections that you'd expect for someone working for the government. This is something that everyone in the tech field should think seriously about when considering doing government contract work.
I don't care what you call it/try to spin it.
He should be tried and executed like any traitor.
The "should be tried and executed like any traitor" clause should be applied to Dianne Feinstein, James Clapper and all the rest of the bastards who have knowingly violated the Constitution of the United States of America, to the detriment of the nation of the United States of America and to the hundreds of millions of the citizens of the United States of America !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It's BS that Snowden is unwilling to come back to the US to stand trial. I'm sure there are plenty of great lawyers who would work pro bono to take his landmark case, and if he was willing to fight, he might be able to affect more change to the government spying program and achieve the goals he set out to reach.
Even great lawyers can't do anything when the evidence is hidden or heavily redacted in the name of national security. "Your honor, we'd like to introduce this document showing that the NSA was overstepping its legal bounds" "Objection! That document is classified top secret, so instead you can use this redacted version that is completely black except for the words "We", "love", and "freedom".
It's especially difficult when the lawyer is going up against an agency that has already shown itself willing to lie directly to congress -- supposedly the people that are overseeing the agency. If they don't mind lying to congress, why wouldn't they lie to a court?
With the deck stacked that heavily against him, what hope is there for any sort of fair trial? Esepcially when he's guilty of what he's accused of -- stealing and releasing classified documents. Without whistleblower protection laws to support him, the reason he stole the documents is immaterial.
I think he is relatively safe if he stays in Russia. "Relatively". Should he leave there, he should prepare to be dragged into a van with a canvas sack over his head -- the subject of an "extraordinary rendition." (This is of course illegal. I don't condone it, but I do expect it.) He's barely safe in Russia, and probably not safe anywhere else. He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Given that he's already said that all the docs will be released if he comes to an untimely demise, there seems to be little incentive for the USA to extradite him unwillingly, and much incentive for the USA to keep him alive and well.
He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Which is why many people consider his acts heroric -- he sacrificed his own welfare and safety to reveal illegal activities by the US government.
Hey who let James Clapper on slashdot
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
First, I'll stipulate that Snowden is a hero to me. Half my age. Twenty times the guts.
What really bothers me, though, is how the Administration bungled this. Amateur hour! The moment we arrogantly, petulantly forced Evo Morales airplane down in Austria, we pretty much guaranteed that Snowden would need to hole up and that Putin would take the opportunity to stick us in the eye. This is beyond amazing. We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history. All because we couldn't think straight and realize that Ecuador or Venezuela or *anywhere" would be a batter outcome than what we got.
It's one thing to get poked in the eye with a stick, but quite another thing to run into the stick full tilt. Amateur hour.
My bet is on annoying the US, hell if where Putin I would.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Just in case you'd forgotten that Snowden still exists, here's Slashdot to stir up all that nice outrage.
So what? Snowden is "one of us" - I dunno if he had a slashdot account or not, he did post regularly on ars technica's forums. A great many of us here can identify with him - technical, libertarian, etc.
Of all the places on the net, slashdot is one of the few where snowden's personal story is just as relevant as role in the surveillance state debate.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Yep, this was handled yesterday in: http://news.slashdot.org/story...
http://online.wsj.com/news/art...
Highlights:
In the Thomas Drake case, the administration retroactively marked documents as classified, saying, 'he knew they should have been classified.'
In the Bradley Manning case, the jury wasn't allowed to see what information was leaked.
snowden had been working in the defense industry for a decade before he decided to join Booz Allen et al. He had ample opportunity to find out what was really going on behind the curtain before he made the decision to blow the whistle.
Possible, but very, very unlikely. The prosecution would be careful to block any jury member during selection who appears sympathetic to Snowden, citing grounds of bias.
Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up for a possible trip to Mars, why put Snowden at the head of the line?
First of all Mars is in the United States. He can't go there. Second, the population is nowhere near 200K. It's probably closer to 2,000.
We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history.
Before I comment, I need to clarify that I am an American citizen, a naturalized citizen since I wasn't born in the United States of America.
It is true that Russia is a thug. And it is true that right now, as we correspond on /. the fate of the conscience of the nation of the United States of America rests on the decision of the Russian thug.
However, if we take a step backward, we can see that the government of the United States of America has become a thug itself, and a thug that is not unlike that notorious thug in Russia.
On the Snowden affair, only a thug would tried so hard to hunt down Snowden, so much so that they actually grounded a plane carrying the president of another sovereign nation.
The United States of America was the nation that I chose to be when I escaped from yet another thug - China - and I am very sad to say, the regime which is governing the land who has saved me from a thug has become a thug.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Only if you have to go there with one of the 200,000 people who have signed up. (Except for the few hot chicks who did it for fun.)
I hope "hot chick" is way down on the list of things they look for in an application - a "hot chick" is probably the person I'd least want to live with on mars, and I'd chose the nerdy chick (or dude) that sits in the basement all day building Arduino projects.
That's not to say that there are no nerdy hot chicks, but they don't seem to be the norm. Plus, my only relationship with a "hot chick" ended dramatically with a visit from the police, and almost a restraining order.
Chris Hadfield (recent tweeting/singing Canadian Commander of ISS) has some very encouraging words to say about Russia and Russians. I think myself that Snowden *will* have to stay there and that the Russians were decent to extend his stay, virtually indefinitely. Snowden I think is a loyal American and would like to return home, but the USA with pronouncements and anima pointed against him at this point are not likely to let him return. At least, not when Manning is in jail.
My remark was more about equating Putin and Obama's behavior toward dissidents than it was about Snowden himself.
This world is occupied by 4.5 big thugs - China, Russia, USA, Japan, plus UK, which can only be rated as 0.5big, since they are living in their past glory.
USA is trying its best to hunt down Snowden. Japan and Britain are USA's lap dogs.
That leave China and Russia being the two entities left in this planet big and fierce and crazy enough to stand against USA.
So, where do you want Snowden to go ?
Sweden ? that another lap dog of USA ?
Bolivia ? Whose presidential plane was forced grounded by yet another USA lap dog (Spain) ?
I know very well (and I am not the only one in this) that Russia is far from the ideal location for Snowden to seek refuge in, but short of a miracle (that Obama and all his gang of traitors are thrown to jail), Mr. Edward Snowden is facing a stark future of being on the run all his life.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
He already has the corrupt government of one superpower after his head, I don't think we should ask him to go for two. Maybe a Russian whistleblower will leak loads of damning details about Putin's government surveillance and be granted asylum in the US. That would be hilariously awkward.
No, they'd swap prisoners, after each interrogated theirs fully.
The treason definition is in the constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
In this context, I would think "adhere" means something along the lines of "devotion" -- the only country Snowden showed devotion to was the US. He certainly didn't wage war.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
My point is that he did not need to reveal all of it, just exposing the domestic surveillance would have been enough... Congress and the average American don't give one tiny shit if the NSA bugged Angela Merkel's phone, and many are probably secretly pleased that we did and got away with it until this guy opened the kimono on that.
My question is how was releasing that information helpful? While certainly unethical, bugging Merkel's phone (for instance) was NOT illegal under US law, and not forbidden under the NSA's charter, while the domestic data collection clearly was both illegal and forbidden. I applaud the exposure of the NSA's illegal activities, but I abhor the exposure of their legal ones.
This is why I believe he had other motives. Snowden is not a hero, he's an attention whore.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Take a look at the subsequent careers of the lawyers that defended people in GITMO to get another angle on how unfair it would be. Some of them moved out of the USA so they could get work instead of being unemployed on a blacklist.
Ah yes -- the definition of Treason in Webster's trumps that in the US Constitution. You must be a member of Obama's legal team.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
If you want to dumb things down to newspeak then yes - doubleplusgood so, but in English he doesn't quite fit the bill.
Here's a question to sort things out since you are using your own personal definition. Do you think that Oliver North was a traitor for knowingly selling weapons to Hezbolla less than a year after they had killed over a hundred US Marines? If not North then why Snowden?
That question should really establish whether you stand for "King" first and "Country" second or not. North put "King" first, betraying his country for the sake of his leader. Snowden put "Country" first, betraying his leader for the sake of his country.
So where do you stand? Are you for "King" or for "Country". Would George Washington consider you an enemy or a fellow believer in an ideal?
I mean, we can talk all day and say that Snowden made great personal sacrifices, but did anyone ever ask why he was working with the NSA in the first damn place?
Yes, I did, and because I did ask that question, I did some research into how what Snowden had done, and how he managed to get into that little circle under the NSA canopy.
Unlike most regular posters in /., Mr. Edward Snowden didn't graduate from some fancy university, in fact, he didn't even have a high school diploma !!
Mr. Edward Snowden studied at Anne Arundel Community College to gain the credits necessary to obtain a high-school diploma but he did not complete the coursework.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
Mr. Snowden's first step action in his infiltration into the NSA circle was working as a Security Guard guarding the building in which NSA's contractors was using.
From that position he gets to know people who work with the NSA contractors, and he gets to know what kind of position is opened.
Once he learned that the NSA contractor needed sys-admins, Mr. Snowden studied very hard, self-study style, all the computer/network related skills needed to be employable as a sysadmin.
From there he gained entry to the NSA contractor's computer systems, and from there he gained access to the - alleged - millions of secret files.
I have analysed what Snowden did and I was very impressed with his determination and his other skill in hiding his real intention very very well ! That takes a lot of pre-planning, a lot of self-control, and a helluva load of patience.
As have stated, Mr. Snowden wasn't a kid from a "high caste" of the American society. In fact, his family background, - if I am allowed to put it, and advanced apology to Mr. Snowden and his family for stating the fact - has been routinely categorized as "White Trash" by many Sociologists.
But yet, unlike millions of others, Mr. Snowden loves his country, and it's His Pure Love Of The Country that he did whatever he had to do in order to gain access to the secretive evidences of the illegal activities of the Government of the United States so that he can expose it to his fellow citizens, in the hope that, one day, his beloved country may be better.
True, he worked under the canopy of NSA, and true, NSA is part of the totally despicable regime which is ruling over the nation of the United States of America.
But without getting inside the NSA, how was Edward Snowden going to gain the SOLID evidences of the dastard deeds which the invalid government of the United States of America has committed.
It has been well known for many of us that the USA is no longer free. On the surface it is, but deep inside too many damn dirty things had happened, and we, the citizens, couldn't do a squat about it.
There had been rumors floating around on the many secret programs that were in violation of the Constitution of the United States, but without solid evidences, there is NOTHING to proof.
Before Mr. Snowden's revelation, every single time when I talk to others about the (then alleged) secret programs people looked at me as if I am one of those nuts who believe in conspiracy theories.
It is because of Mr. Snowden, and thanks to his solid evidences, that today, even people who previously pooh-pooh at me whenever I talked about the illegality of the US government are coming to me to talk about the very matter that previously they thought were conspiracies.
Last, but not least, remember the adage:
"Judge not, lest thou be judged"
You have unfairly judged Mr. Edward Snowden due to his working under the NSA program. Unless you want to be judged by others the same way you have judged Mr. Snowden, I suggest that you begin your own path of redemption.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The US bill of rights and constitution only applies to US citizens.
Did you even read it? It says "persons" or "people" everywhere, except for the qualifications of office for president, senators and representatives, the federal supremacy clause, and the privileges and immunities clause, where it says "citizens". So the distinction is quite explicit and obviously intentional.
There's plenty of judicial precedent here, as well. Any person in US jurisdiction, whether citizen or not, has the rights and freedoms outlined in the Constitution, except for those few that are exclusively reserved to citizens.
Exactly the point. Snowden has taken way too many data needed to prove his point about US citizen rights violation by NSA. He leaked everything in the hands of a third party with no right to access this data. In a trial, it would be hard for him to prove he was really trying to make a point about violation of US citizen rights. It could easily be seen as an alibi to leak top secret data to foreign countries. It could be seen as fishing without knowing exactly what he will find in the data he has taken. Could a whistleblower been qualified as is if he doesn't have a clue about the data he has just taken? If you say yes to this, anyone taking any dataset from anywhere and leaking it to public could be seen has a whistleblower, including your credit card data and other personal records.
Achille Talon
Hop!
?????
Please make this list. I'd like to know what the equivalent is in the US of jailing a rock band for free speech is, jailing people protesting the president, and making talking about homosexuality in a positive light illegal.
Please, post the list. The US isn't perfect, but I seriously challenge you to post a list of freedom of expression opression that's anywhere near what's going on in Russia.
And are you really so certain Snowden won't be treated like a pawn in international relations? He's a chess piece to Putin and Russia. A propaganda vehicle to show how Putin is a hero for freedom. Also something to potentially negotiate with Washington about. In a couple years.. maybe his asylum doesn't get renewed, and he's expelled from Russia for some minor offense.
AccountKiller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
Passed over three times for promotion for doing his appointed job and representing somebody unpopular.
Unfortunately the link to the marine newsletter given as a citation is dead, but you don't have to be spoon fed do you? He's been interviewed a few times and some of those times were presumably for print media, or you may be able to find podcasts of radio interviews.
Of course I've just wasted my time because you'll find another way to string me along if you are a troll. Are you a troll?