Slashdot Mirror
Russia Plans To Extend Edward Snowden's Asylum
mendax writes "The New York Times reports, 'Russia plans to extend its offer of asylum to Edward J. Snowden beyond August, a Russian lawmaker said Friday at the World Economic Forum ... The lawmaker, Aleksei K. Pushkov, chairman of the foreign affairs committee in Russia's lower house of Parliament, hinted during a panel discussion that the extension of temporary refugee status for Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, might be indefinite. "He will not be sent out of Russia," Mr. Pushkov said. "It will be up to Snowden."'"
Snowden said yesterday that going back to the U.S. is not an option because of the country's poor whistleblower protections "which through a failure in law did not cover national security contractors like [him]." He added, "This is especially frustrating, because it means there’s no chance to have a fair trial, and no way I can come home and make my case to a jury."
Maybe he can reveal how Putin is spying on Russians by any means necessary.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
.... and end this saga! Give him a home in the Sakha Republic - that place will get populated
whistle blows you!
Engineer is spy.
Nope, that law does exactly was it's supposed to do - protect the guilty.
It's on here because Snowden is the biggest whistleblower of his generation, and this article will get generate views and comments for a less-than-interesting Friday afternoon/evening.
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information, otherwise Snowden had a year to find a new place to avoid a drone strike. One wonders if he made a deal, or the Russians just enjoy annoying the US.
Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up for a possible trip to Mars, why put Snowden at the head of the line?
The problem is that the way the laws are written, he would not be able to mount an effective defense against the charges. He would only be allowed to (basically) answer the circumstances around his alleged taking of those NSA files and would be forbidden from bringing any sort of argument regarding the public's right to know, the government's own wrongdoing exposed by those leaked files, and such and so forth. He is obviously guilty of taking the files so it is a guaranteed guilty verdict.
There is no point for him to return until the laws allow for some type of whistleblower or public interest defense, which they currently do not.
Except that stuff happens all the time, with a bunch of different countries as the source, and many predate Snowden's events by a very, very long time.
Or both.
Bad call.
Spend life in relative freedom, eating non-spicy Russian restaurants.
V.S.
Spend life in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. ... ... Please, editors, let's leave these purely-political stories off of the front page. I don't dispute that they have value, but they just don't belong here.
While I don't disagree that slashdot seems to put trollish/public-subset-opinion-polling/alarmist style headlines all over the front page more often than optimal, I have to disagree here about Snowden. I believe the Snowden revelations, and the way they came about, and continue to transpire as so, have so paradigm-shifted the computer and network security landscape, that articles such as this one are more than appropriate. First, it's merely a side-effect conveniency issue. While yes, some of your points may have merit, you have to forgive a bit that the slashdot audience really is that interested in how the Snowden saga transpires. I mean, this is some Epic War and Peace Shit going on here. A martyr being martyred slowly over years. How exactly, and how much pain and vindication end up in that story, I really think will have a profound place in the history of the internet's chapter in the history of humanity. This is a *BIG DEAL*.
And even setting asside that real-politik drama and the slashdot audience's 'non-technical' interest, you must look at the legitimate 'technical' interest of the slashdot audience. How Snowden is handled by the overwhelming powers that be, truly does shape how many of us here will be developing technology throughout the remaining future of our carreers. At some point, one is tempted to say - 'if computer security matters are treated this profoundly by the un-(directly)-opposable powers that be, then you know what, I'm actually going to stop worrying about whether the firmware in my BIGNAMEBRAND computer system or consumer device is a security risk or not. But if Snowden is fully vindicated, and reclaims the rights and protections of a free citizen of the United States of America, including rigourous protection of his freedom of speech, then I may well say- I'd like to spend more of my carreer working on more secure open source firmware.
Dunno...
The thing you have to understand here is that Putin is an authoritarian douchebag -- but he's not an idiot. He knows that there will be extra scrutiny on his polices during the Olympics. By having Snowden around, it's a reminder that the US isn't in a position to finger-wag over such things.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Both you and "ackthpt" should be ashamed of yourself.
Unlike Mr. Edward Snowden, none of you have the guts to do the right thing, and yet, after the personal sacrifices Mr. Snowden has gone through - may even turn out to be a lifelong exile from the country he loves so much - you guys post smart-ass comments as if you are some how "better" than Mr. Snowden.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The US does have some protections for whistleblowers, but none he can use - national security information is specifically excluded, as is the public interest defence. Any trial would consist of this:
Judge: "Did you release classified information?"
Defense: "Only in the public interest."
Prosecution: "Public interest defense is not considered a valid cause for releasing classified information."
Judge: "Guilty. I sentence you to six hundred years in maximum security."
There isn't really anything he could say. That's even if the trial were fair - and it wouln't be. Chances are almost all the documentation will be classified so high neither he nor his lawyers would be permitted to see it, so he'll be defending against evidence he can't even know about. The only good thing for him is that he was a civilian contractor, so he at least would get a trial, rather than a military tribunal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01...
His response should be "you first".
I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. But at this point, this is purely political wrangling. There's no technology involved here. There's no science involved here. There's no mathematics involved here. Just realpolitik.
The "technological" angle is really the issue of the US government sub-contracting technological work, and giving those people no legal protections that you'd expect for someone working for the government. This is something that everyone in the tech field should think seriously about when considering doing government contract work.
Whats wrong with legal side of how we got months of insightful new crypto and tech news? Thanks to the efforts of Snowden the history of US/UK gov computer science spending can be filled in from 199x to ~200x.
http://cryptome.org/2013/11/sn...
Without Snowden Slashdot would have been filled with years of the same old boring sock puppets. Bland, safe, bulk daily posting stories about trivial technical matters as they build mod points.
Now we understand the old talking points of:
Data sets are too big, telcos would never connect to govs, its only for foreign use, no vast surveillance of domestic groups, no parallel construction, the Constitution, private sector legal teams, press, political leaders, no cpu or cooling could cover that kind of sorting...
We now know nothing protected the public from a vast illegal domestic surveillance network over the years.
We now have news Snowden view of US legal protections for US contractors (as in computer specialist) who speak truth to power.
http://cryptome.org/2013-info/... Many people have tried to stay in the US legal system but thats getting expensive and color of law seems to be getting re interpreted per case.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I don't care what you call it/try to spin it.
He should be tried and executed like any traitor.
The "should be tried and executed like any traitor" clause should be applied to Dianne Feinstein, James Clapper and all the rest of the bastards who have knowingly violated the Constitution of the United States of America, to the detriment of the nation of the United States of America and to the hundreds of millions of the citizens of the United States of America !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It's BS that Snowden is unwilling to come back to the US to stand trial. I'm sure there are plenty of great lawyers who would work pro bono to take his landmark case, and if he was willing to fight, he might be able to affect more change to the government spying program and achieve the goals he set out to reach.
Even great lawyers can't do anything when the evidence is hidden or heavily redacted in the name of national security. "Your honor, we'd like to introduce this document showing that the NSA was overstepping its legal bounds" "Objection! That document is classified top secret, so instead you can use this redacted version that is completely black except for the words "We", "love", and "freedom".
It's especially difficult when the lawyer is going up against an agency that has already shown itself willing to lie directly to congress -- supposedly the people that are overseeing the agency. If they don't mind lying to congress, why wouldn't they lie to a court?
With the deck stacked that heavily against him, what hope is there for any sort of fair trial? Esepcially when he's guilty of what he's accused of -- stealing and releasing classified documents. Without whistleblower protection laws to support him, the reason he stole the documents is immaterial.
However, his revelations about NSA spying outside the USA have caused severe and lasting damage to the USA's reputation, and to the USA's ability to collect intelligence that it needs to defend it's interests
His revelations about NSA spying outside the USA have caused severe and lasting damage to the USA's ability to betray its allies.
The USA now has the oportunity to begin to earn the trust of its people so it can defend its national interests.
The nature of the issue required full disclosure, they have no business spying on our allies, or utilizing military resources in the acquisition of oil, turning military power on Americans, undermining private sector computer security of Americans, abusing the national security apparatus, or violating the constitution. If none of this were the case, then Snowden would not have had a gripe or anything unlawful to expose. Elite corps owning politicians is the problem, the NSA did as instructed and probably unknowingly created a corporate espionage cash cow and undoubtedly a symptom of the problem, what Snowden did was inevitable at one time or another, one cannot commit a crime and call it a secret, or create retroactive law to legalize it without showing hypocrisy. The corruption behind this needs to eat their crow and like it.
I think he is relatively safe if he stays in Russia. "Relatively". Should he leave there, he should prepare to be dragged into a van with a canvas sack over his head -- the subject of an "extraordinary rendition." (This is of course illegal. I don't condone it, but I do expect it.) He's barely safe in Russia, and probably not safe anywhere else. He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Given that he's already said that all the docs will be released if he comes to an untimely demise, there seems to be little incentive for the USA to extradite him unwillingly, and much incentive for the USA to keep him alive and well.
He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Which is why many people consider his acts heroric -- he sacrificed his own welfare and safety to reveal illegal activities by the US government.
Hey who let James Clapper on slashdot
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
First, I'll stipulate that Snowden is a hero to me. Half my age. Twenty times the guts.
What really bothers me, though, is how the Administration bungled this. Amateur hour! The moment we arrogantly, petulantly forced Evo Morales airplane down in Austria, we pretty much guaranteed that Snowden would need to hole up and that Putin would take the opportunity to stick us in the eye. This is beyond amazing. We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history. All because we couldn't think straight and realize that Ecuador or Venezuela or *anywhere" would be a batter outcome than what we got.
It's one thing to get poked in the eye with a stick, but quite another thing to run into the stick full tilt. Amateur hour.
My bet is on annoying the US, hell if where Putin I would.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Just in case you'd forgotten that Snowden still exists, here's Slashdot to stir up all that nice outrage.
So what? Snowden is "one of us" - I dunno if he had a slashdot account or not, he did post regularly on ars technica's forums. A great many of us here can identify with him - technical, libertarian, etc.
Of all the places on the net, slashdot is one of the few where snowden's personal story is just as relevant as role in the surveillance state debate.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I would have thought that the Russians had no love whatsoever for the US and that they would like seeing Snowden release everything he has and leave the US with egg on their face.
Or are the Russians using the same tricks and tools as the US (under different code names) and that's why they dont want Snowden to speak out?
It's worse than that. He's already stated that he took the job in the first place to find damning information to release. That is one of the details about the whole Snowden saga that causes me reserve in using the term "whistleblower" to describe him.
Better known as 318230.
If he came back he would die mysteriously and painfully inside a week of "natural causes".
Or be locked in some deep hole in ground and torcherd the same as Manning awaiting trial for three years until they break him.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Anyone think it's more than a little coincidental that Snowden seeks asylum in Russia and then some Russian hackers stole all that credit card data from Target? Knowledge of backdoors and security vulnerabilities is pretty much the NSA's mission statement. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if he sold some information - the guy's gotta eat.
no just no.
Russia is stuffed to the gills with mellicious hacker working for the Russian mob, because Russia doesn't care about hacker targeting other countries.
Snowden fled to left for Hong Kong the free-ish part of China first and handed over his copies of the documents the Glen Greenwald and Laura Poitrus. When thing looked like china would turn him over rather than piss of their biggest trading partner the US, a member of wikileak arranged to get Snowden out of China and into Russia. Why Russia because there are only two countries that are;
A - Big enough to tell the USA to go fuck itself.
&
B - Not in cahoots with the USA.
They are Russia and China. China didn't want to upset trade relations so they were getting ready to hand him over that why Russia.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Yep, this was handled yesterday in: http://news.slashdot.org/story...
http://online.wsj.com/news/art...
Highlights:
In the Thomas Drake case, the administration retroactively marked documents as classified, saying, 'he knew they should have been classified.'
In the Bradley Manning case, the jury wasn't allowed to see what information was leaked.
my theory is that the Russians have less qualms and impediments to using the same types of tricks and tools as the US, however perhaps less technical ability. I say that latter thinking of Silicon Valley in the US and the history of the internet, though like the moon-landing style got-there-firsts, perhaps now the internet is mature enough that an early lead has evaporated.
Back to your question though- another reason to consider the Russians not wanting Snowden to speak out is because it would anger the U.S, and perhaps in a real-politik sense, Russia is still afraid of what a really-pissed-off USA-intelligence-inner-circle-elite can do to Russia. Or again as before, perhaps there is no superpower-imbalance in this day and age to enable that silenced-by-fear effect.
There isn't really anything he could say. That's even if the trial were fair - and it wouln't be.
He could be aquitted through Jury Nullification
Jury nullification occurs when a jury returns a verdict of "Not Guilty" despite its belief that the defendant is guilty of the violation charged. The jury in effect nullifies a law that it believes is either immoral or wrongly applied to the defendant whose fate they are charged with deciding.
That's not even worthy of a Flamebait mod--that's just stupid.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
snowden had been working in the defense industry for a decade before he decided to join Booz Allen et al. He had ample opportunity to find out what was really going on behind the curtain before he made the decision to blow the whistle.
Possible, but very, very unlikely. The prosecution would be careful to block any jury member during selection who appears sympathetic to Snowden, citing grounds of bias.
Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up for a possible trip to Mars, why put Snowden at the head of the line?
First of all Mars is in the United States. He can't go there. Second, the population is nowhere near 200K. It's probably closer to 2,000.
We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history.
Before I comment, I need to clarify that I am an American citizen, a naturalized citizen since I wasn't born in the United States of America.
It is true that Russia is a thug. And it is true that right now, as we correspond on /. the fate of the conscience of the nation of the United States of America rests on the decision of the Russian thug.
However, if we take a step backward, we can see that the government of the United States of America has become a thug itself, and a thug that is not unlike that notorious thug in Russia.
On the Snowden affair, only a thug would tried so hard to hunt down Snowden, so much so that they actually grounded a plane carrying the president of another sovereign nation.
The United States of America was the nation that I chose to be when I escaped from yet another thug - China - and I am very sad to say, the regime which is governing the land who has saved me from a thug has become a thug.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Interesting logic. Why does the logic for "If you decide to be X, then you aren't really X" work [for you] for whistleblowers but not doctors?
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Only if you have to go there with one of the 200,000 people who have signed up. (Except for the few hot chicks who did it for fun.)
I hope "hot chick" is way down on the list of things they look for in an application - a "hot chick" is probably the person I'd least want to live with on mars, and I'd chose the nerdy chick (or dude) that sits in the basement all day building Arduino projects.
That's not to say that there are no nerdy hot chicks, but they don't seem to be the norm. Plus, my only relationship with a "hot chick" ended dramatically with a visit from the police, and almost a restraining order.
Chris Hadfield (recent tweeting/singing Canadian Commander of ISS) has some very encouraging words to say about Russia and Russians. I think myself that Snowden *will* have to stay there and that the Russians were decent to extend his stay, virtually indefinitely. Snowden I think is a loyal American and would like to return home, but the USA with pronouncements and anima pointed against him at this point are not likely to let him return. At least, not when Manning is in jail.
I can never tell if people are joking, but are you mentally ill or just severely stupid?
You'll have to give a little more context if you'd like me to answer your insightful question - I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Am I crazy and/or stupid for suggesting that being banished to Mars can't be all that bad if 200,000 people would volunteer, or is it because I implied that Snowden shouldn't get a free trip to Mars when hundreds of thousands of people are in line in front of him?
You could be on God or Satan's own legal team, and it wouldn't make difference. There is no way to have a fair trial in the US on this matter:
https://pressfreedomfoundation...
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
My remark was more about equating Putin and Obama's behavior toward dissidents than it was about Snowden himself.
This world is occupied by 4.5 big thugs - China, Russia, USA, Japan, plus UK, which can only be rated as 0.5big, since they are living in their past glory.
USA is trying its best to hunt down Snowden. Japan and Britain are USA's lap dogs.
That leave China and Russia being the two entities left in this planet big and fierce and crazy enough to stand against USA.
So, where do you want Snowden to go ?
Sweden ? that another lap dog of USA ?
Bolivia ? Whose presidential plane was forced grounded by yet another USA lap dog (Spain) ?
I know very well (and I am not the only one in this) that Russia is far from the ideal location for Snowden to seek refuge in, but short of a miracle (that Obama and all his gang of traitors are thrown to jail), Mr. Edward Snowden is facing a stark future of being on the run all his life.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The treason definition is in the constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
In this context, I would think "adhere" means something along the lines of "devotion" -- the only country Snowden showed devotion to was the US. He certainly didn't wage war.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
What a load of crap. We have already seen exactly what happens with regard to Manning Trials. Every single bit of evidence that demonstrates adherence to rule of law with regard to exposing crimes is buried under national security. Not one iota of evidence proving adherence to law is allowed. A public joke, a disgrace to justice, US law proving the corrupt money and power based nature of the system of injustice.
How stupid can you be to cite principles of justice with the US wealth and power based courts. Law enforcement routinely gets away with summary execution for contempt of cop. The poor and prosecuted and rich get away with everything or get laughable sentences. The US government has so blatantly corrupted justice that the trial system is now the punishment, with it extended for as long as possible and the enemy of the current band of politicians brutalised and even tortured during the whole process and to the point of death.
Seriously wake up to reality, the US is as bad as the Soviet Union, not worse, equally exactly just as bad. Three cheers for The Shrub and the Uncle Tom bringing American justice down so low (now there is a real challenge picking the worst of the two, technically the Uncle Tom is far worse because he is smart enough to know exactly the consequences of what he is doing and the Shrub, well that was really all down to Darth Cheney).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
He killed any chance to come back to the US the minute he started handing out data that had absolutely nothing to do with the publics right to know. The US bill of rights and constitution only applies to US citizens. Every country on the planet conducts foreign intelligence gathering on countries of interest with no differentiation between enemies and so called allies. His naivety in this matter is glaring. You may think this practice is wrong but until every single country ceases collecting foreign intelligence the practice will continue. He could have gotten off with little or no punishment if he had released only information related to US citizens. His appalling arrogance in deciding he alone knows what information is safe to release and which information might damage the US foreign relations has guaranteed he will be looking over his shoulder for a long time to come. In the meantime he best hope the Russian government doesn't need anything of importance from the US government because there is a long history between the 2 countries when it comes to making mutually beneficial exchanges of people for the right price. One outstanding mystery in this whole affair is why didn't Snowden attempt to release this data in such a way that the release could not be traced back to him. It wouldn't have been that hard.
Oh Please!
Do you not think the USA's allies were not spying on the USA? The French continue to conduct large scale industrial espionage against the USA to this day. They just have not had the whistle blown on them (yet.) It is pretty common knowledge that Israel spies on the USA continuously.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Merriam-Webster's first definition of "treason" is
"the betrayal of trust."
Snowden signed an agreement to keep things he learned on the job secret, and he betrayed that trust. Again, I don't disagree with him blowing the whistle on the NSA's illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens going about their business here in the USA. My beef is that he unveiled way more than that, way more than he needed to, and I do not support that. I believe that was wrong.
My opinion is that his behavior crossed beyond "whistleblower" into the range of "criminal."
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
I wouldn't be surprise if Snowden attempts to make contact w/US participants in Sochi.
Yours is a thoughtful reply, and I thank you for that.
However, I must disagree with your "elite corps owning politicians" being the root of this problem. That's a whole different problem, I don't believe the politicians knew what the NSA was doing at all. The NSA was running totally rogue, and the unlawful surveillance of US citizens on US soil -- with Congress having no clue at all -- clearly demonstrates that. Our corporate bought-and-paid-for politicians stack things in favor of their corporate sponsors, and this NSA problem is a loser for everybody.
I don't think you and I agree much on politics, but I think we both agree that there is too much money in it, and the power of the individual has been subverted by big money interests.
Thanks for your comment (and not down-modding me!)
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Putin really gets off on showing his citizens that he is not afraid of the US. Sometimes I think China's periodic fucking-with Hong Kong is the same sort of fuckery.
My point is that he did not need to reveal all of it, just exposing the domestic surveillance would have been enough... Congress and the average American don't give one tiny shit if the NSA bugged Angela Merkel's phone, and many are probably secretly pleased that we did and got away with it until this guy opened the kimono on that.
My question is how was releasing that information helpful? While certainly unethical, bugging Merkel's phone (for instance) was NOT illegal under US law, and not forbidden under the NSA's charter, while the domestic data collection clearly was both illegal and forbidden. I applaud the exposure of the NSA's illegal activities, but I abhor the exposure of their legal ones.
This is why I believe he had other motives. Snowden is not a hero, he's an attention whore.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
I agree with this. And didn't Manning's case reveal a similar circumstance of intent? I was an a devout left-leaning anarchist in my early youth (and still little or no justification for a ruling class and/or government to do its bidding) and when I joined the military, in fact, it came up. I read the contract carefully, and it prohibited me from having contact with any group which in any way sought to overthrow the US Government. So during my time in the army, I had no contact with such groups. To me it was similar to Coke asking a delivery driver not to deliver Pepsi using a Coke truck. You could still drink Pepsi (you could still maintain your beliefs, and your personal integrity therein) but you could not, while working for Coke at least, undermine the brand that paid your bills.
A true trial would simply examine the facts and if there was reasonable doubt that Snowden was guilty of the charge then he would be judged not guilty by the jury. In a better country, Bush would have faced similar charges when he outed that CIA agent.
What about grounds of bias... for the US government? Thats grounds for dismissing anyone who doesn't support Snowden.
Take a look at the subsequent careers of the lawyers that defended people in GITMO to get another angle on how unfair it would be. Some of them moved out of the USA so they could get work instead of being unemployed on a blacklist.
Whistle-blower protection is really only usable then the bad actor is the contractor and not the government. In that case the government can flex its legal muscle to exact punishment in the name of the public good. When the government is the one sanctioning illegal activity, it has every reason to create an unfair playing field for anyone who dares to point out the nakedness of emperors.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Plus there is no defense for this, as the laws are all stacked against him as has already been stated; there is nothing that says he can't be convicted, no matter how good his attorney's. Plus, the US government wants Snowden dead, so if they ever get their hands on him, he's in for it.
Ah yes -- the definition of Treason in Webster's trumps that in the US Constitution. You must be a member of Obama's legal team.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
I would be naive to assume that Greenwald has the only electronic copy of these documents. The speculation is Snowden could have stashed them in other safe places, to which he would have access. I almost guarantee the govt has done an automated search of the popular cloud sharing sites for keywords. The recent rumors that he planned this ahead of time with Russia is most likely wild speculation by an irresponsible congress critter. If the US knew that as fact, they wouldn't have told us.
If you want to dumb things down to newspeak then yes - doubleplusgood so, but in English he doesn't quite fit the bill.
Here's a question to sort things out since you are using your own personal definition. Do you think that Oliver North was a traitor for knowingly selling weapons to Hezbolla less than a year after they had killed over a hundred US Marines? If not North then why Snowden?
That question should really establish whether you stand for "King" first and "Country" second or not. North put "King" first, betraying his country for the sake of his leader. Snowden put "Country" first, betraying his leader for the sake of his country.
So where do you stand? Are you for "King" or for "Country". Would George Washington consider you an enemy or a fellow believer in an ideal?
Asylum extends you!
Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up for a possible trip to Mars
In my case, you just answered your own question, sir.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
My bet is on annoying the US, hell if [I were] Putin I would.
Same here.
No fun having power if you can't use it to piss off powerful people every once and a while :)
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
I would be naive to assume that Greenwald has the only electronic copy of these documents. The speculation is Snowden could have stashed them in other safe places, to which he would have access. I almost guarantee the govt has done an automated search of the popular cloud sharing sites for keywords. The recent rumors that he planned this ahead of time with Russia is most likely wild speculation by an irresponsible congress critter. If the US knew that as fact, they wouldn't have told us.
I was going to wax philosophical about how and where Snowden might have stashed his cache, so to speak.
Then I thought about it, and decided I didn't want to accidentally say something clever that might... compromise his negotiating position. Better safe than sorry, you know?
Now, if you'll excuse me, there seems to be a commotion going on outsi
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
A talented fellow like Snowden should be able to lead a decent life in Russia. Why return to a nation owned by corporate globalist mafiosi who hate you? (Apologies to real mafiosi who haven't killed nearly as many people.)
Russian Slashdotters feel free to weigh in on wether Russia is the hell portrayed in the US media, or something different.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
So, is your point that the USA wasnt betraying the trust of its allies because there wasnt any to begin with ?
Totally. He can lean back and use this for sooo much PR. "See? the west is corrupt! you have it good, in Russia, da?" And use it for bargaining later for stuff. This was an easy choice for him to make to offer, and the US still keeps making themselves look daft everytime they talk about Snowden.
Waiting for an amusing sig.
Now I've learned something from this thread and I don't feel like it was all a waste of time. Thanks!
I would extend this further to ALL public officials who either have not adequately studied the Constitution (mine's on the wall, about 2 feet from my face right now) or who've knowingly denigrated it. There is only one member of Congress I could presently, willingly exclude from execution, and I don't even like him as a person.
I mean, we can talk all day and say that Snowden made great personal sacrifices, but did anyone ever ask why he was working with the NSA in the first damn place?
Yes, I did, and because I did ask that question, I did some research into how what Snowden had done, and how he managed to get into that little circle under the NSA canopy.
Unlike most regular posters in /., Mr. Edward Snowden didn't graduate from some fancy university, in fact, he didn't even have a high school diploma !!
Mr. Edward Snowden studied at Anne Arundel Community College to gain the credits necessary to obtain a high-school diploma but he did not complete the coursework.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
Mr. Snowden's first step action in his infiltration into the NSA circle was working as a Security Guard guarding the building in which NSA's contractors was using.
From that position he gets to know people who work with the NSA contractors, and he gets to know what kind of position is opened.
Once he learned that the NSA contractor needed sys-admins, Mr. Snowden studied very hard, self-study style, all the computer/network related skills needed to be employable as a sysadmin.
From there he gained entry to the NSA contractor's computer systems, and from there he gained access to the - alleged - millions of secret files.
I have analysed what Snowden did and I was very impressed with his determination and his other skill in hiding his real intention very very well ! That takes a lot of pre-planning, a lot of self-control, and a helluva load of patience.
As have stated, Mr. Snowden wasn't a kid from a "high caste" of the American society. In fact, his family background, - if I am allowed to put it, and advanced apology to Mr. Snowden and his family for stating the fact - has been routinely categorized as "White Trash" by many Sociologists.
But yet, unlike millions of others, Mr. Snowden loves his country, and it's His Pure Love Of The Country that he did whatever he had to do in order to gain access to the secretive evidences of the illegal activities of the Government of the United States so that he can expose it to his fellow citizens, in the hope that, one day, his beloved country may be better.
True, he worked under the canopy of NSA, and true, NSA is part of the totally despicable regime which is ruling over the nation of the United States of America.
But without getting inside the NSA, how was Edward Snowden going to gain the SOLID evidences of the dastard deeds which the invalid government of the United States of America has committed.
It has been well known for many of us that the USA is no longer free. On the surface it is, but deep inside too many damn dirty things had happened, and we, the citizens, couldn't do a squat about it.
There had been rumors floating around on the many secret programs that were in violation of the Constitution of the United States, but without solid evidences, there is NOTHING to proof.
Before Mr. Snowden's revelation, every single time when I talk to others about the (then alleged) secret programs people looked at me as if I am one of those nuts who believe in conspiracy theories.
It is because of Mr. Snowden, and thanks to his solid evidences, that today, even people who previously pooh-pooh at me whenever I talked about the illegality of the US government are coming to me to talk about the very matter that previously they thought were conspiracies.
Last, but not least, remember the adage:
"Judge not, lest thou be judged"
You have unfairly judged Mr. Edward Snowden due to his working under the NSA program. Unless you want to be judged by others the same way you have judged Mr. Snowden, I suggest that you begin your own path of redemption.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Wow! That newsweekly link really is scraping against the lunatic fringe! I wonder which of the two "independent minds" at that site wrote the article.
Are you going to link the lizard conspiracy next?
The US bill of rights and constitution only applies to US citizens.
Did you even read it? It says "persons" or "people" everywhere, except for the qualifications of office for president, senators and representatives, the federal supremacy clause, and the privileges and immunities clause, where it says "citizens". So the distinction is quite explicit and obviously intentional.
There's plenty of judicial precedent here, as well. Any person in US jurisdiction, whether citizen or not, has the rights and freedoms outlined in the Constitution, except for those few that are exclusively reserved to citizens.
Russian spies in Australia at 'near Cold War level'
China's spies come out from the cold
Chen Yonglin, a Chinese diplomat who recently defected in Australia, claimed Beijing had as many as 1,000 spies in Australia alone.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
lopho. I consider the terms "progressive" and "democrat" to be hurtful slurs, fighting words if you called me that to my face, and I disagree with most of what you think.
On the 1 to 10 "Hero" scale:
Snowden = 8, NSA = 1
On the 1 to 10 "Traitor" scale
Snowden = 2, NSA = 10.
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
We should really have all of our current politicians exciled from this once great country. We should rightfully demand communication from their righteous churches that they harbour and salute.
http://gamehacking.org/vb/threads/12747-nensondubois-codes http://twitter.com/nensondubois_
You raise your concerns about unconstitutional programs with your boss, in writing, and if that works you go to his boss. They need to get paper for the management toilets from somewhere.
So he stole classified documents. Released them to people not authorized to have them. He's guilty. Beyond a reasonable doubt. And he should go to prison for a very long time.
Even if you grant the let's say a dozen documents related to the still legal meta data collection then he has still has stolen almost 1.7 million other classified documents of which he has released at least tens of thousands to some journalists. Even if you view he's a whistle blower for blowing the whistle on still legal behavior (its not illegal until the SCOTUS says it is since they already have a precedent saying that there is no expectation of privacy for business records) then he is still guilty on 1.7 million other counts of stealing government property, unauthorized releasing of classified information, etc...
You then say that his defense lawyers won't be allowed to see all of the documents he's stolen and released to who knows how many people and/or countries not to mention stashed away in a million hidey holes. But yet he won't have a fair trial because he can't see all of the documents he already has?
Exactly the point. Snowden has taken way too many data needed to prove his point about US citizen rights violation by NSA. He leaked everything in the hands of a third party with no right to access this data. In a trial, it would be hard for him to prove he was really trying to make a point about violation of US citizen rights. It could easily be seen as an alibi to leak top secret data to foreign countries. It could be seen as fishing without knowing exactly what he will find in the data he has taken. Could a whistleblower been qualified as is if he doesn't have a clue about the data he has just taken? If you say yes to this, anyone taking any dataset from anywhere and leaking it to public could be seen has a whistleblower, including your credit card data and other personal records.
Achille Talon
Hop!
His point is that he's a warmonger with no principles whatsoever. The USA's reputation? The USA's ability to spy on its 'allies'? I hope it did damage them, because it should.
So far Putin's government has arrested and jailed members of the band pussy riot, banned "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations among minors (which bans speech about supporting gay rights), had his political rivals charged with fraud, expelled a US agency that provides poverty and disaster relief (USAID), instituted internet censorship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R..., banned the adoption of Russian children by US parents, arrested an activist who planned protests against Putin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S..., started back up the tradition of using the psychiatric machinery to punish political protesters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P..., and countless other acts.
Snowden is a smart guy, and I'm sure he realizes this. But he needs to get the hell out of Russia. Hopefully he's working on establishing asylum somewhere else, but Russia is becoming more and more politically oppressive, and isn't the right place for someone who values freedom.
AccountKiller
At this point it is just a matter of choosing the poison you want to die of. Russia or the US are different only in degree, not in nature.
Since I came from yet another poisonous concoction - China - I'll say this ...
If I were to have a choice - and I'm going to die anyway - I will die the way I choose, by ***FIGHTING AGAINST*** those fucking bastards.
I rather die fighting than die being poisoned,
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
We see that there are people on this earth that have even less regard for lives of others and are ready to act violently. We may be confronted by them sooner that we think and it would be better if we had a moral high ground and many good friends like a powerful and freedom and human rights supporting US - but not only in speech but in acts of law and in actions of its agencies. Shame this does not seem to be happening.
I fully understand what you mean. I do.
Both of us came from the communist country background and both of us know how wrong can a system become and how badly it can fuck up people's lives.
When ***THAT*** fight comes (against those you-know-who), I do not think we can rely on any other people but our own selves.
USA is not only no longer a reliable entity, my worst case scenario (yes, I do plan ahead) is that illegal regime which lords over America may end up ***ASSISTING*** the "you-know-who" in conquering Europe, and then shove *that* problem to Russia and China (geopolitically USA is more immune to those you-know-who anyway).
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
That is funny.
Really that would have been Clinton's legal team.
Perhaps perfidious would be a better word to describe Mr. Snowden.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Unfortunately America hasn't stood for those things in a verry long time.
Maybe if you did, and acted like you did. You wouldn't have so many terrorists bothering you all the time.
As I was not born in America, but have stayed in the States for quite a long time, I get to observe USA first hand, with a third-person vantage point.
There are TWO Americas.
One is the REAL AMERICA - the Americans, the people.
The other one is that illegal regime which has lorded over the United States of America for ... God knows how many years ...
The REAL AMERICA still stands for Liberty, Freedom, Equality, Democracy, and still believes in it.
The other one ? That's the one you have mentioned - the paranoid sociopath regime which has acted totally against the very spirit on which the United States of America was created for.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
If Depardieu can be made a citizen over a petty tax dispute, surely the Russian government can extend the same courtesy over a more significant issue.
Think carefully about why they are only extending his asylum instead of giving him citizenship.
Perhaps Russia is extending Snowden's asylum instead of granting him a citizenship because that's (Russian citizenship) isn't what Snowden want.
You can say anything about Putin but there are two things that Putin really stands out ...
1. Putin is no fool
2. Putin does not like to feel like a fool
Perhaps Putin already know Snowden will turn down the offer of the Russian citizenship, that is why he (Putin) isn't offering Snowden what he has offered that French guy. (That French guy actually asked for it so he doesn't need to pay that outrageous 75% income outrageous.
If Putin were to publicly offer Snowden a Russian citizenship and Snowden turns him down, that would be a major embarrassment for Putin and for Russia.
Of course Putin ain't gonna be stuck in that scenario.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
However, his revelations about NSA spying outside the USA have caused severe and lasting damage to the USA's reputation ...
Get real. Who are these mythical utterly naive people who were blissfully unaware prior to Snowden as to what the NSA was and did? I have an EFF T-shirt from about five years ago that was protesting it loudly.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
I could never vote for Ron Paul. Ron Paul had the most conservative voting record in congress between WWII and 2001
And Rand Paul is another asshole cut from the same mold. Rand's grandstanding filibuster was nothing more that stating that Obama was an asshole, then reworded Obama's exact same policy as his own.
So than makes both Ron and Rand bigger sacks of shit than Obama.
Of course your probably jerking off to a picture of Ayn Rand as I type this.
I'd rather be a whistleblower than one of the huge sheeple-mob of "I knew what was happening, but... I was just following orders" after someone else finally blows the whistle.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
My question is how was releasing that information helpful? While certainly unethical, bugging Merkel's phone (for instance) was NOT illegal under US law, and not forbidden under the NSA's charter, while the domestic data collection clearly was both illegal and forbidden. I applaud the exposure of the NSA's illegal activities, but I abhor the exposure of their legal ones.
This is why I believe he had other motives. Snowden is not a hero, he's an attention whore.
Reasonable people don't throw their life away for attention whoring, and I for one most certainly think Snowden is a reasonable person. Reasonable and *ethical* - what's wrong with USA (as well as most other countries and a whole lot of people) is the lack of ethics of any kind and I applaud Snowden for his clearly deep love for his country and hatred for sociopaths that are failing it and taking a huge dump on ethis of any kind.
Granted I'm not american and I thus have other reasons than well being of USA only for thanking Snowden, but let's play pretend and imagine that I were the same person I am now except I was american and I'll grant you I would be just as much cheering for Snowden as I am now.
I'm also thankful, as a Finnish citizen, to Snowden for uncovering how Sweden is in bed with NSA in spying out citizen.
There's something to be said for a patriot who throws his life away to do the right thing for not only his country, by exposing the wrongs their government (and//or three letter agencies), but for other countries as well - thank you Snowden.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
They've been talking about wanting permission to kill him instead of capture him. So they don't want to bring Snowden in alive, they want to bring him in dead.
Link: http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyj...
If "everybody does it, it's just that the USA got caught" as has been claimed by various pro-government trolls on /., then the USA's reputation has suffered no damage, because everybody already knew they did it, just as their own countries also do it.
If everybody else *doesn't* do it, then the USA deserves their damaged reputation, and they deserve it.
Do you think Rob Ford's reputation as a crack smoker was caused by Gawker, or by Rob Ford?
If the USA's reputation has been damaged by this, it is entirely the US government's fault, rather than Snowden's.
You're trying to blame Snowden for the US government's failures. That's why you were downvoted.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
Passed over three times for promotion for doing his appointed job and representing somebody unpopular.
Unfortunately the link to the marine newsletter given as a citation is dead, but you don't have to be spoon fed do you? He's been interviewed a few times and some of those times were presumably for print media, or you may be able to find podcasts of radio interviews.
Of course I've just wasted my time because you'll find another way to string me along if you are a troll. Are you a troll?