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Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support For the Opera Browser
An anonymous reader writes: "It doesn't take a Columbo to figure out that the 'previous employer, a small browser vendor that decided to abandon its own rendering engine and browser stack' is referring to Opera in this comment answering the question 'Do you actually use the product you are working on?' It appears to originate from Andreas Tolfsen, a former Opera developer who is now part of the Mozilla project. From releasing a unified architecture browser including Linux support since 2001, Opera decided to put Linux development on indefinite hold, communicated through blog comments, and focus on Windows and Mac for their browser rewrite centered around the Blink engine that had its first beta release last spring. The promise to bring back the Linux version in due time was met with growing skepticism as the months went by, and clear answers have been avoided in the developer blog. The uncertainty has spawned user projects such as Otter browser in an attempt to recreate the Opera UI in a free application. Tolfsen's statement seem to be in line with what users have suspected all along: Opera for Linux is not something for the near future."
The Opera Browser?? WHAT YEAR IS IT!? (Robbin Williams)
It's just a disfunctional Chrome with Opera branding now.
It died when they abandoned their own codebase.
Who needs opera on Linux when there's iceweasel?
I had honestly seriously forgotten that Opera existed before I saw this headline.
Been an Opera user since '98. Not die hard, but I always had Opera running in conjunction with other browsers. For a time solo, and now back to using FF, and Chrome (which is what the new Opera really is, minus the extensions - so what's the point?). It was a great browser because it was like an swiss army knife - one that is highly configurable WITHOUT the need for any extensions. Couldn't agree more with the ex-Opera dev. Sadly, they've decided to kill it. I'll keep an eye on Otter browser and keep using v 12 as my research / search and rescue - browser.
So an obscure platform that only a small band of hardcore fans used was never ported to GNU/Linux?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Next stop?
Being purchased by Microsoft.
Before Firefox came along they fulfilled a role, but now we have two widely used open source (and in the case of FF, vendor independent) desktop web browsers, as well as Safari and IE. It's a marketing hole that really can't be fixed by technically superior engineering (which they apparently no longer have, if they ever did).
If they want to stay around they need to find a new mission, some device or service that only Opera can or will do a decent job of serving from. While they're at it, they should come up with a new name b/c Americans don't like going to the opera and haven't for the last 60 years or so - they think going to the opera is for losers.
Oh, so we're now down to this entire list of browsers (minus Opera)?
to get rid of the adverts... then they went freeware on me... and then they offered server side "rendering" which meant they had records of every page I visited? FFS Opera... you were once relevant, then you blew it...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Opera users typically were hardcore about it, and would only let go when you pried their cold dead hand away from it. I've been a longtime Opera user...the new version is derisively called "Chropera" and I've dumped it. It's just bad, so many of the things that made Opera are gone, so why use this Chropera? It didn't even have a bookmark manager, just that stupid Speed Dial. And then there is the general evasiveness of the devs, especially about a Linux version. So if you've forgotten about it, consider it a mercy. For those of us who loved using Opera, it's very painful.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Or, also and alternatively: slownewsday.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
It was pretty weak even then. It did what I wanted on a shitty CentOS build. At the time I wasn't too adept ( noob sauce ) at getting binaries to work properly on a Linux distro. You live and you learn. Out of frustration; I used the .exe to run under wine? Jesus christ! What the he'll was thinking??? I look back now on the decision. It's kind of hysterical. Thanks Wine. ROFL!
It died when it became bloatware just like the rest of the browsers.
Who remembers when it was lean mean small and fast?
I remember a time when surfing with Opera was 3x as fast as ie.
IE got better and Opera got worse and firefox stole the thunder.
Yup, this was a glorious coup by company higher-ups.
Grats, Opera management. You managed to kick out a good founder, kick out a good engine, and kick out any certainty that you won't be sold out to Facebook (Facebook, ffs!). You even made me wonder, between Tolfsen's account and the second engine change (from WebKit to Blink), if Google has simply stuffed your ranks with their management just to Elop the place.
ggwp.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
There's plenty of good browsers for GNU/Linux and GNU/Linux itself has a market share of perhaps 1%. I'm guessing Opera's got maby 1% of that and 1% of 1% isn't much. I think ditching GNU/Linux support does make sense from a business perspective if they only drop support for that. Focusing on Opera mini for Android and things like that probably makes a lot more sense. Regardless: I truly believe Opera is highly overvalued right now http://www.netfonds.no/quotes/... and it's much likely a good short at this price level. This is not investment advice, I'm just a guy who've had a 20%+ _monthly_ return on his portfolio the last 6 months (I only had 17% one month 7 months ago which ruined my streak) so use your own common sense. Just sayin that the it's got one very attractive downside at this price point.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Opera's STILL showing itself to be "bulletproof & bugfree" -> http://secunia.com/advisories/... + it has every feature you can think of NATIVELY BUILT-IN (vs. other browsers using plugins & their associated overheads + security issues)...
* I'm no "CHOPERA" man, I like & still use the last TRUE Opera, in its last builds for 64-bit Windows as shown above, & those are my reasons why...
APK
P.S.=> It IS "the Superior Warrior" out there in the way of webbrowsers, even now...
... apk
I had been an avid Opera fan since I first started using it quite a few years ago. I used it when it was the only browser that had tabbed browsing. A feature that is now part of every browser out there. The folks behind the Opera browser were innovators. They had tabs, the speed dial, Opera link (which would sync bookmarks and other items between your browsers), and gestures years before other browsers and they fully believed in being standards compliant. When I heard they were moving away from being a browser developer to being a browser repackager, I stopped using it. They went from innovating to tagging along for a ride. I recently fired up the new version of Opera to be very, very disappointed because it was simply a repacked version of Chrome. Most of the features that I had grown to love were gone and I found no reason to continue using it.
I do occasional web development. Opera's dragonfly is a great compliment to Firefox Web Developer toolbar. If Opera were to go, it would be a great loss.
One of the strengths (and simultaneous weakens) of Opera was that it used it's own unique rendering engine. That gave it an advantage in specialized situations where others would not quite fit.
Since they changed to using webkit, they are, in my opinion, basically irrelevant now. They might have well just become another one of those circa 2000 Microsoft Internet Explorer shells.
Say what you will about Presto not working on site x, y, or z, more diversity is good, and it helps keep real standard in check. There were once too many sites that were only viewable in IE, I do not look forward to a future internet that is only viewable in Google Chome.
Is there any hope at all that they might open source the Presto Rendering engine?
Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support From the Opera Browser
FTFY. Linux will always be there for Opera to run on, if it wishes to.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I don't think anyone is wanting that anymore.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Reposted from here (same AC as before) in the hope that Opera devs will read it and think hard:
Been using Opera since v5 days in early 2001 and still remember the big banner it had back then as the company moved to a free but adware supported version.
I've lovingly used Opera due to its mouse gestures, tabs (many tab placement options, the more recent grouping features), session manager, and good customization for key bindings, resisting the complete switch to other more well 'web-supported' browsers when it's rendering wasn't good on some sites I was frequently browsing, always using it as the main browser.
In 2013 however they decided to switch to the Chrome rendering engine.. and have since (seemingly) forgotten about us Linux users, with no (new) Linux version available since v12 in July before the transition, while the Windows/Mac versions are now up to v18 (and v19 developer preview). There have been rumors of a Linux version but no concrete proof there will ever be one, and soon I will jump ship to another browser which is showing good care for Linux users.
Goodbye Opera.. I'll be very sorry to see you go.
Personally I think if they're going to dump Presto like that, they might as well let someone else further the engine, hell it might even adopt more users that way.
I used Opera only because of its engine. Now there is nothing, not even my precious Linux support. So, stick with 12.16, or stick with something both FOSS and modern.
I still remember when I discovered opera on dial-up, and what an wonder. much faster browsing then IE or netscape, faster download speed, tabs, mouse gestures, and most magical thing on dial-up = resume download.
opera was best browser by miles...
and opera was best for years. no matter that FF has 50 times market share, opera was really much better.
and then opera devs slowly fcked it. they started adding kind of bloatware (unite, link, torrent downloads, some strange extensions...), included plugin support, and opera becomes buggy.
for anyone used to standard opera, opera 15 is a joke. they could have bankrupted as well
I'm opera user for long years, and I still use 12.16
because it is still kind of best browser on market...
it is slow (js) and buggy and I would really like to go for something else, but there is no browser which could offer me a half of things opera could.
which is shame.
still using opera classic for android, because it is six time better than anything else.
Except you can't write a full feature browser using ModernUI - it's not allowed. Opera used to support a lot of platforms (Solaris comes to mind) that they dropped. Has nothing to do with free platforms.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I tried a few times over the years, but it always amazed me first with how small the download was, and then second with how terrible the interface was. It never really improved and was only popular with a small number of users.
replaced.
As a long time Opera on Linux user, the "pivot" the company has taken towards Webkit and a dysfunctional UI is like "being held down and watching your family get raped on a beach"
I was a long time Opera user and enjoyed testing all of the weekly builds on my linux system, and to be fair it was a really good browser with some unique features... but... since merging it with chrome and literally throwing away all of those features that made opera it's own, and total lack of linux support I've dumped Opera and moved to Chromium Browser which works well and may not have all those nice features that opera once had, but hey, at least they support linux...
So I actually have been actively using Opera for a while now. As well as it having a place in my history as my primary browser back in the day. And by now you might have then inferred that while I use Opera it is not my primary browser. Let me explain.
Since, at least as far as I'm aware, you still can't give a command line options to any Windows browser to tell it where/what size to open it has been convenient for me to use Firefox on my main monitor for my primary browser and then a 2nd browser that opens up on my 2nd monitor. Further it is nice having my 2nd monitor browser be different since then I can keep 2 effective sets of bookmarks. Since my 2nd monitor browser is in effect more a media device than my primary browser.
And for that Opera has worked great. In fact it still is working right now on my 2nd monitor where a YouTube video is playing right now. The UI was decent, it did not eat up a ton of resources, and overall did exactly what I wanted it to do and did it pretty well.
Well just a week ago I wanted to do a reinstall and so I packed up all my programs config/data files and did the deed. Opera's data files sit in:
C:\Users\$UserName\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera x64
Notice that last bit...my archive said just Opera not Opera x64 which I thought was a little odd since Opera kept auto updating for me so I thought I was running exactly the same thing that I had been not 45m prior. But whatever, I could see why that could happen between version installs but not updates. I was wrong.
I had been running Opera 12.x. I did not really keep track of it since all the dev's lost their heads and went for version number bloat and all that. So when I hit Opera's download site I just grabbed the latest version, installed, turned it on once, killed it, replaced the default config files with mine, and turned it back on and...
It was like installing Win8. Total UI change for the worse. (This was now Opera 19 btw.) No way to even put up a button for bookmarks. Everything had to go though a "quickdial" type page. Options were dumbed down. Just bad bad bad. It took me to realize that I was running what amounted to a whole new Opera and not the old one that had served me well.
Here: http://www.opera.com/download/...
You can see where the change was. The old Opera, which they appear to still be doing some updates to, stops at 12.x and then the reboot starts at 15 and is up to 19, lol, now. That version is something that again I liken to a Win8 version of Opera. I did not use it long enough, the new version of Opera, to give it any sort of proper review. All I know is that it was bad for me, reeked of some sort of desire to force tablet UI on desktop computers, and dumbed down everything as if I was using some Apple OS/app.
I am not opposed to change but where Opera is going now will not have me as a follower.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
I installed Opera 12 the other day, and it didin't even have an option to save a bookmark, and it seemed to insist I import my old browsers, even though I diidn't want any of them.
Interesting post on LQ:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/opera-are-they-re-inventing-the-wheel-4175456599/page4.html#post5108895
I can understand why this guy is gloomy, but what does Outlook have to do with Linux?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I cannot think of a single reason to use Opera browser over Chrome or Firefox. Their email client is a minimalistic joy to use though.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
Opera on FreeBSD is great. They had a native version that is awesome. It also ran on MidnightBSD. I consider it one of the best browsers available on the platform aside from Chromium.
Good, now they can spend some time on the Amiga version they talked about twenty years ago.
First you get Exchange and Outlook, because your users have convinced the CEO that he should get rid of you, your boss, and the horses you rode in on if you dare stand in the way of their horrible but much-loved email client. The one that uses semicolons to separate addresses instead of commas, you know, the totally crap email client. Outlook.
And then you get System Center because you got AD when you got Exchange, because obviously you know that Exchange without AD isn't just a crappy mail hub, it's a support nightmare. You gotta get AD or you may as well shoot yourself in the head. Or run FreeIPA, which is almost the same thing. Once you've got AD and Outlook, System Center is a no-brainer, it makes your life so much easier, and the cost is already sunk, really.
Hey, there's widgets to build, trades to make, people, we aren't a computer university, we're a bloody enterprise! Fire that guy if he won't stop his incessant academic mewling about FOSS and DAV RFCs!
Then once you've got Exchange and Outlook and Activesync (for the CEO's iPhone of course) and System Center you've got a Forefront UAG which means you've got IIS on the Internet, for chrissakes, so you are essentially flying the Microsoft flag now and arguments that Apache or nginx are far more powerful and secure aren't really germane, since you have to expose IIS to the net (goddamn iPhone!)...
And of course Windows 8 comes with free hyperV on the desktop so the mature and extremely cost-effective hyper-V virtualization framework is yet another no-brainer - why pay more for VMware or cope with the lightspeed evolution of ovirt when you can get HyperV at a fraction of the cost and patch upkeep? If you don't put win8 on the desktop you'll have to train your desk drones, if you use windows they already know how it works.
So now your remote users can get their email, run virtual desktops (like Citrix only better) and you can remotely install software on their machines and....
Hey, did I mention you are now stuck running IE? Because the next step, and the final conversion of your entire enterprise into another Microsoft satellite, the final nail in the coffin of your former independence from single-vendor pseudo-standards, is sharepoint.
Expect IE marketshare to grow. Because Outlook.
The only reason why i use opera over the other browsers is the connecting->sending request->receiving data cycle from the status bar.
The other browsers with their cryptic "waiting for" are simply too annoying.
And this is why i hated the engine change as well.
I do for anyone via http://start64.com/index.php?o... giving users of custom hosts files more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity with data for all of that from 12 reputable & reliable sources in the security community...
* :)
(Additionally: Opera, like any webbound program, also >b?supports the usage of custom hosts files @ the IP stack ring 0/rpl 0/kernelmode level just fine vs. inferior on MANY levels competing slower usermode layered on added complexity not nearly as tightly integrated to the OS core so-called 'solutions' - Hosts files are hugely overall better - they're more efficient & easily managed flexible with TOTAL user control easily + certainly not redundant seeing as they're the default 1st resolver queried by any BSD bearing OS & TCPIP stack out there ( & they all pretty much are on any hardware or OS platform so its truly universal & ubiquitous + extremely versatile, from a SINGLE file...))
APK
P.S.=> "Onwards & Upwards..."
... apk
Firefox is the only full-function browser that is:
1) Native multiplatform for all the major desktop platforms (Linux, MS-Win, MacOS).
2) Fully Open Source.
3) Managed by the community.
And on top of that, it has fantastic extension/addon support, performs very well, is very standards based, is actively supported and enhanced, has great site support, and is available for mobile too. So I am shedding no tears over the loss of Opera.... and I did use it many years ago.
To me, a distant second is Chromium, but it is still Chrome... and Chrome contains God-knows-what by Google. It is also not a community project and its Linux support is second-class to the other desktop platforms.
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop...
CrashNBurn71 > dakira â 3 days ago
:: at least Office still has the same functionality - even if it takes twice as long to get there.
.net or WinForms or any of Microsoft's Software Development Kits, or even __Autohotkey__ you could layout a Window with customizable/resizable sections in a day.
Or you know, instead of the past year of this nonsense, Opera DESKTOP could of used WebKit/Blink to render the page, and kept Presto to render the Opera UI. It would of been more memory intensive, but at least it would of been a usable browser.
A thread for every single open Tab is beyond ludicrous. A thread for every window *maybe*.
Opera 15+ is worse than MS Office + the Ribbon
Why anyone is bothering with Opera any longer is beyond me. A year later there's not even a hint of a customizable interface or the Side-Panel. M2 has been flat out abandoned, not a single update since it was split into its own "App".
With
Other Browsers have a handful of developers or less, and are blowing Opera out of the water. (See Maxthon or Slepnir -- the whole Fenrir Inc only has 50-200 employees.)
(*) And yeah some of us actually do Software Development beyond throwing a couple webpages onto the internet, and actually know what CAN be accomplished in a day or a month or a year.
No bookmarks in a year? Opera doesn't want to add bookmarks. Or it would of been done in a week, maybe a month. Its not f'n rocket science.
Many? long-time Opera users would likely agree that Opera was quite possibly one of the top 10 software products ever. quite possibly one of the top 10 software products ever.
(*) Chopera defenders (and the Dev's themselves) on the blog frequently spout about how software development takes time... as the excuse for why almost none of Opera's old functionality has made its way into the new Chrome "clone".
... except Chopera isn't even close to a clone, not only is it missing nearly everything that made Opera useful, it's missing most of what Chromium has as well.
clone - implies something that is a copy of its "parent"
What's Opera? Does it run under Chrome? Isn't it that music stuff with the fat lady wearing the horns singing till our ears bleed or something?
Don't tell that to Chromium. Oh I forgot, you're lying.
...
I've been a loyal Opera user since version 3. It was awesome using tabbed browsing on dialup. I'd click to open windows in the background and finish reading the page I was on, and then close it and go on to the already-loaded page. I remember all the brouhaha about IE's slow page loading, and wonder what all the fuss was about. But, now that Opera is over (don't even talk to me about the "new Opera", a dysfunctional skin of Chrome), I'm wondering what to do next. The last version of Opera will last another 6-12 months, I think, before it stops working with new websites. What browser is for me?
Chrome? Nope. I don't like it, plus Google's gone evil.
IE? Nope.
Firefox? Well, I'd really prefer a different answer. I hate adding plugin after plugin, only to have them all go incompatible when FF does an upgrade. Opera just worked and had every feature I wanted. Plus, FF is just sluggish on my system, a laptop from 2012.
What else is out there that a diehard Opera user will love?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
What version of Operating System do you use?
APK
P.S.=> It's been tested (as it says on the download page) on Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003/Vista/7/Server 2008 R2 (32 & 64-bit versions also) & it worked just fine... apk
"Those operating systems are insecure, most are too new to know where the bugs REALLY are" - by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03, 2014 @03:32PM (#46143931)
They're NOT "insecure" IF/WHEN you security-harden them (using CIS Tool as your guide & it's pretty highly esteemed) -> http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...
---
"I use Windows 95. Given Windows 95 and Windows 2000 use pretty much the same API (ie Win32) I think your program should work great on it." -
Not same API "beneath the covers", usermode a LOT is the same, but there ARE differences too & beneath the shell/usermode not very alike @ all really... & certainly NOT in the IP stack layer (Winsock vs. Winsock 2, etc.)
APK
P.S.=> Hard to believe you're using Windows 95, but I'll take you @ your word on that! I never tested that (for reasons noted below).
QUESTION: What errmsg/abend do you see? Is it that it can't get a PING or ICMP, or other winsock issue (since that is what I suspect WHERE you'd see hassles... imo @ least)
Additionally/Lastly:
IF you *think* the NT-based OS family (NT/2000/XP/Server 2k3/Vista/7/2k8) are insecure, then you really ought to know that Win9x is REALLY insecure since it hasn't seen support of patching in ages (not sure of the year, but it's been a decade++ I'd almost wager)... apk
Not good, & since Win9x's not being patched, a lot of exploits you *think* won't work on it, will... bank on that.
* Still - IF that's how you feel, then go with it... I can only point out facts to lead a horse to water - I can't make them drink it!
(You didn't answer my question:
What error did you see using my app on Win95 there?
(The app maintains an error log in the folder you extracted it to by the way, which can HELP here... the filename = APKErrLog.txt)
APK
P.S.=> Still - security hardening the NT-based Microsoft Windows OS family tree is EASY, & works (using the guides I put up links to that use CIS Tool to help, which makes it "fun" in a nerdy/geeky kind-of-way... almost like running a speed benchmark, albeit for security instead)... apk
See subject-line above, & it's certainly no 16-bit one either (as your reference to old 16-bit VB runtimes indicates) - it has 32-bit &/or 64-bit non-runtime driven "true stand-alone/self-contained" executables, no external moving parts libs/dlls (other than Win32/64 API calls + Winsock 2 API calls)...
APK
P.S.=> Are you trying to waste my time? If so, please - don't... apk
http://linux.slashdot.org/comm...
APK
P.S.=> You need to grow up & quit wasting YOUR time + mine - especially when I create tools of value for users (like this program that gives uses more speed, security, reliablity, & anonymity online): Why don't YOU *try* doing the same, instead of being a miserable troll with some pretty clear issues on your end?
... apk
http://linux.slashdot.org/comm... which is impossible for 2 reasons: There IS NO 'installer script' & it's not written in VB3, as well as having no runtime dependencies + it's only in 32-bit or 64-bit models only.
APK
P.S.=> I don't know what your game is, but I was honestly TRYING to help you, pointing out the errlog the app has too no less, but your replies afterwards only made me realize you are trolling, nothing more (too much time on your hands)... apk
I was lucky enough to switch to Linux on my home PC in late 2012, a few months before development ceased on what I will now call "True Opera", so there was never a question for me of being forced to choose whether to upgrade to v15 or not or of being gravely disappointed by v15 after switching or any of that. I just kept using my favourite browser while it got gradually worse at loading more and more script-heavy websites like Facebook and such.
Still, it hasn't gotten to the point where I can't stand the slowness anymore and I just have to use something else as my main browser. No, all that's going on right now is that I'm annoyed enough at how slow Facebook is that I want to look around for discussions about Opera's future, but still not so annoyed that I would give up on "True Opera"'s many wonderful user-friendly features and switch to some stupid wannabe-browser toy like Chrome/ium or to a combination like {Firefox + a bunch of extensions that offer bad imitations of only a subset of Opera's functionalities}.
From what I've read today, it seems that my best option is to wait for Otter to mature and maybe switch to that one if it ever gets to the point where it's about as usable as - but much faster than - Opera v12.16. (Or I could give the {Wine + Windows Opera v12} combo a shot.)
To follow up on my last:
- Windows Opera v12.16 doesn't seem usable over Wine, it just refuses to react to some of my clicks sometimes and I can't browse like that.
- Apparently there's an actually mature alternative to "True Opera", namely Maxthon, which also looks like a browser that's trying to be very powerful and user-friendly but is doing it on a modern engine (Webkit). Sadly, it's not the Linux version that's mature, that one is still in beta, so on Linux this looks to me like a race between Otter and Maxthon to become a really usable next best thing to Opera v12.16.