Slashdot Mirror
Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support For the Opera Browser
An anonymous reader writes: "It doesn't take a Columbo to figure out that the 'previous employer, a small browser vendor that decided to abandon its own rendering engine and browser stack' is referring to Opera in this comment answering the question 'Do you actually use the product you are working on?' It appears to originate from Andreas Tolfsen, a former Opera developer who is now part of the Mozilla project. From releasing a unified architecture browser including Linux support since 2001, Opera decided to put Linux development on indefinite hold, communicated through blog comments, and focus on Windows and Mac for their browser rewrite centered around the Blink engine that had its first beta release last spring. The promise to bring back the Linux version in due time was met with growing skepticism as the months went by, and clear answers have been avoided in the developer blog. The uncertainty has spawned user projects such as Otter browser in an attempt to recreate the Opera UI in a free application. Tolfsen's statement seem to be in line with what users have suspected all along: Opera for Linux is not something for the near future."
The Opera Browser?? WHAT YEAR IS IT!? (Robbin Williams)
It's just a disfunctional Chrome with Opera branding now.
It died when they abandoned their own codebase.
I had honestly seriously forgotten that Opera existed before I saw this headline.
Been an Opera user since '98. Not die hard, but I always had Opera running in conjunction with other browsers. For a time solo, and now back to using FF, and Chrome (which is what the new Opera really is, minus the extensions - so what's the point?). It was a great browser because it was like an swiss army knife - one that is highly configurable WITHOUT the need for any extensions. Couldn't agree more with the ex-Opera dev. Sadly, they've decided to kill it. I'll keep an eye on Otter browser and keep using v 12 as my research / search and rescue - browser.
So an obscure platform that only a small band of hardcore fans used was never ported to GNU/Linux?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Oh, so we're now down to this entire list of browsers (minus Opera)?
to get rid of the adverts... then they went freeware on me... and then they offered server side "rendering" which meant they had records of every page I visited? FFS Opera... you were once relevant, then you blew it...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Opera users typically were hardcore about it, and would only let go when you pried their cold dead hand away from it. I've been a longtime Opera user...the new version is derisively called "Chropera" and I've dumped it. It's just bad, so many of the things that made Opera are gone, so why use this Chropera? It didn't even have a bookmark manager, just that stupid Speed Dial. And then there is the general evasiveness of the devs, especially about a Linux version. So if you've forgotten about it, consider it a mercy. For those of us who loved using Opera, it's very painful.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Or, also and alternatively: slownewsday.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
It died when it became bloatware just like the rest of the browsers.
Who remembers when it was lean mean small and fast?
I remember a time when surfing with Opera was 3x as fast as ie.
IE got better and Opera got worse and firefox stole the thunder.
Yup, this was a glorious coup by company higher-ups.
Grats, Opera management. You managed to kick out a good founder, kick out a good engine, and kick out any certainty that you won't be sold out to Facebook (Facebook, ffs!). You even made me wonder, between Tolfsen's account and the second engine change (from WebKit to Blink), if Google has simply stuffed your ranks with their management just to Elop the place.
ggwp.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
There's plenty of good browsers for GNU/Linux and GNU/Linux itself has a market share of perhaps 1%. I'm guessing Opera's got maby 1% of that and 1% of 1% isn't much. I think ditching GNU/Linux support does make sense from a business perspective if they only drop support for that. Focusing on Opera mini for Android and things like that probably makes a lot more sense. Regardless: I truly believe Opera is highly overvalued right now http://www.netfonds.no/quotes/... and it's much likely a good short at this price level. This is not investment advice, I'm just a guy who've had a 20%+ _monthly_ return on his portfolio the last 6 months (I only had 17% one month 7 months ago which ruined my streak) so use your own common sense. Just sayin that the it's got one very attractive downside at this price point.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
I had been an avid Opera fan since I first started using it quite a few years ago. I used it when it was the only browser that had tabbed browsing. A feature that is now part of every browser out there. The folks behind the Opera browser were innovators. They had tabs, the speed dial, Opera link (which would sync bookmarks and other items between your browsers), and gestures years before other browsers and they fully believed in being standards compliant. When I heard they were moving away from being a browser developer to being a browser repackager, I stopped using it. They went from innovating to tagging along for a ride. I recently fired up the new version of Opera to be very, very disappointed because it was simply a repacked version of Chrome. Most of the features that I had grown to love were gone and I found no reason to continue using it.
I do occasional web development. Opera's dragonfly is a great compliment to Firefox Web Developer toolbar. If Opera were to go, it would be a great loss.
One of the strengths (and simultaneous weakens) of Opera was that it used it's own unique rendering engine. That gave it an advantage in specialized situations where others would not quite fit.
Since they changed to using webkit, they are, in my opinion, basically irrelevant now. They might have well just become another one of those circa 2000 Microsoft Internet Explorer shells.
Say what you will about Presto not working on site x, y, or z, more diversity is good, and it helps keep real standard in check. There were once too many sites that were only viewable in IE, I do not look forward to a future internet that is only viewable in Google Chome.
Is there any hope at all that they might open source the Presto Rendering engine?
Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support From the Opera Browser
FTFY. Linux will always be there for Opera to run on, if it wishes to.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
what the fuck are you talking about. Opera under Wine on Linux? That is more noob than noob
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
I don't think anyone is wanting that anymore.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Personally I think if they're going to dump Presto like that, they might as well let someone else further the engine, hell it might even adopt more users that way.
I used Opera only because of its engine. Now there is nothing, not even my precious Linux support. So, stick with 12.16, or stick with something both FOSS and modern.
Except you can't write a full feature browser using ModernUI - it's not allowed. Opera used to support a lot of platforms (Solaris comes to mind) that they dropped. Has nothing to do with free platforms.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
While they're at it, they should come up with a new name b/c Americans don't like going to the opera and haven't for the last 60 years or so - they think going to the opera is for losers.
I never realized that Americans perceive it like that. :)
Here in Europe, "opera" is an excellent brand name and it gives mental images of sophistication, grandiosity and high quality.
replaced.
Maybe IE would finally be a decent browser if the just rebranded Opera as IE.
As a long time Opera on Linux user, the "pivot" the company has taken towards Webkit and a dysfunctional UI is like "being held down and watching your family get raped on a beach"
So I actually have been actively using Opera for a while now. As well as it having a place in my history as my primary browser back in the day. And by now you might have then inferred that while I use Opera it is not my primary browser. Let me explain.
Since, at least as far as I'm aware, you still can't give a command line options to any Windows browser to tell it where/what size to open it has been convenient for me to use Firefox on my main monitor for my primary browser and then a 2nd browser that opens up on my 2nd monitor. Further it is nice having my 2nd monitor browser be different since then I can keep 2 effective sets of bookmarks. Since my 2nd monitor browser is in effect more a media device than my primary browser.
And for that Opera has worked great. In fact it still is working right now on my 2nd monitor where a YouTube video is playing right now. The UI was decent, it did not eat up a ton of resources, and overall did exactly what I wanted it to do and did it pretty well.
Well just a week ago I wanted to do a reinstall and so I packed up all my programs config/data files and did the deed. Opera's data files sit in:
C:\Users\$UserName\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera x64
Notice that last bit...my archive said just Opera not Opera x64 which I thought was a little odd since Opera kept auto updating for me so I thought I was running exactly the same thing that I had been not 45m prior. But whatever, I could see why that could happen between version installs but not updates. I was wrong.
I had been running Opera 12.x. I did not really keep track of it since all the dev's lost their heads and went for version number bloat and all that. So when I hit Opera's download site I just grabbed the latest version, installed, turned it on once, killed it, replaced the default config files with mine, and turned it back on and...
It was like installing Win8. Total UI change for the worse. (This was now Opera 19 btw.) No way to even put up a button for bookmarks. Everything had to go though a "quickdial" type page. Options were dumbed down. Just bad bad bad. It took me to realize that I was running what amounted to a whole new Opera and not the old one that had served me well.
Here: http://www.opera.com/download/...
You can see where the change was. The old Opera, which they appear to still be doing some updates to, stops at 12.x and then the reboot starts at 15 and is up to 19, lol, now. That version is something that again I liken to a Win8 version of Opera. I did not use it long enough, the new version of Opera, to give it any sort of proper review. All I know is that it was bad for me, reeked of some sort of desire to force tablet UI on desktop computers, and dumbed down everything as if I was using some Apple OS/app.
I am not opposed to change but where Opera is going now will not have me as a follower.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Interestingly enough, it's quite usable and doesn't seem to be any slower than whatever passes for native Opera under Linux.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
The interesting thing is: I have seriously not noticed the rendering engine switch!
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I can understand why this guy is gloomy, but what does Outlook have to do with Linux?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I cannot think of a single reason to use Opera browser over Chrome or Firefox. Their email client is a minimalistic joy to use though.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
The only reason why i use opera over the other browsers is the connecting->sending request->receiving data cycle from the status bar.
The other browsers with their cryptic "waiting for" are simply too annoying.
And this is why i hated the engine change as well.
Firefox is the only full-function browser that is:
1) Native multiplatform for all the major desktop platforms (Linux, MS-Win, MacOS).
2) Fully Open Source.
3) Managed by the community.
And on top of that, it has fantastic extension/addon support, performs very well, is very standards based, is actively supported and enhanced, has great site support, and is available for mobile too. So I am shedding no tears over the loss of Opera.... and I did use it many years ago.
To me, a distant second is Chromium, but it is still Chrome... and Chrome contains God-knows-what by Google. It is also not a community project and its Linux support is second-class to the other desktop platforms.
They have a new mission, Opera ASA is primarily an AD and services company. The browser is a side business.
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop...
CrashNBurn71 > dakira â 3 days ago
:: at least Office still has the same functionality - even if it takes twice as long to get there.
.net or WinForms or any of Microsoft's Software Development Kits, or even __Autohotkey__ you could layout a Window with customizable/resizable sections in a day.
Or you know, instead of the past year of this nonsense, Opera DESKTOP could of used WebKit/Blink to render the page, and kept Presto to render the Opera UI. It would of been more memory intensive, but at least it would of been a usable browser.
A thread for every single open Tab is beyond ludicrous. A thread for every window *maybe*.
Opera 15+ is worse than MS Office + the Ribbon
Why anyone is bothering with Opera any longer is beyond me. A year later there's not even a hint of a customizable interface or the Side-Panel. M2 has been flat out abandoned, not a single update since it was split into its own "App".
With
Other Browsers have a handful of developers or less, and are blowing Opera out of the water. (See Maxthon or Slepnir -- the whole Fenrir Inc only has 50-200 employees.)
(*) And yeah some of us actually do Software Development beyond throwing a couple webpages onto the internet, and actually know what CAN be accomplished in a day or a month or a year.
No bookmarks in a year? Opera doesn't want to add bookmarks. Or it would of been done in a week, maybe a month. Its not f'n rocket science.
Many? long-time Opera users would likely agree that Opera was quite possibly one of the top 10 software products ever. quite possibly one of the top 10 software products ever.
(*) Chopera defenders (and the Dev's themselves) on the blog frequently spout about how software development takes time... as the excuse for why almost none of Opera's old functionality has made its way into the new Chrome "clone".
... except Chopera isn't even close to a clone, not only is it missing nearly everything that made Opera useful, it's missing most of what Chromium has as well.
clone - implies something that is a copy of its "parent"
Don't tell that to Chromium. Oh I forgot, you're lying.
I've been a loyal Opera user since version 3. It was awesome using tabbed browsing on dialup. I'd click to open windows in the background and finish reading the page I was on, and then close it and go on to the already-loaded page. I remember all the brouhaha about IE's slow page loading, and wonder what all the fuss was about. But, now that Opera is over (don't even talk to me about the "new Opera", a dysfunctional skin of Chrome), I'm wondering what to do next. The last version of Opera will last another 6-12 months, I think, before it stops working with new websites. What browser is for me?
Chrome? Nope. I don't like it, plus Google's gone evil.
IE? Nope.
Firefox? Well, I'd really prefer a different answer. I hate adding plugin after plugin, only to have them all go incompatible when FF does an upgrade. Opera just worked and had every feature I wanted. Plus, FF is just sluggish on my system, a laptop from 2012.
What else is out there that a diehard Opera user will love?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
thats the beauty if wine, i've noticed that when i dabbled with MS Office under wine, in fact office under wine was faster than on windows
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
open your eyes and look. i use 12.16 i have bookmarks galore as well as speeddial
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)