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Confessions Of an Ex-TSA Agent: Secrets Of the I.O. Room

Jason Edward Harrington has seen some of the same frustrations, misgivings, and objections that have crossed the mind of probably every commercial airline traveler who's flown over the last decade in the U.S. One difference: Harrington got to see them from the perspective of a TSA agent. His description of the realities of the job (including learning the rote responses that agents are instructed to reassure the public with) is wince-worthy and compelling. A sample makes it clear why the TSA has such famously low morale, even among Federal agencies: "I hated it from the beginning. It was a job that had me patting down the crotches of children, the elderly and even infants as part of the post-9/11 airport security show. I confiscated jars of homemade apple butter on the pretense that they could pose threats to national security. I was even required to confiscate nail clippers from airline pilots—the implied logic being that pilots could use the nail clippers to hijack the very planes they were flying." It only gets worse from there.

393 comments

  1. well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    well it comforting to know that the same government that managed this program is now moving on to something as *truly* important as our and our childrens healthcare.

    right?

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    1. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the two having nothing in common. sounds like you are just anti-government anything.

    2. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Um, they have the Federal government in common. That's the point.

    3. Re:well i'm reassured! by icebike · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Seriously, who modded this troll?

      If you can't see the parallels, you are willfully blind.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:well i'm reassured! by icebike · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did he mention Obama, or was that a revealing slip on your part?
      I'm assuming the latter, and its good to know you understand where the problem is, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it in public.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      wrong.

      i think the US government is incredible at building roads, and it's military seems rather well managed.

      also, library's kick ass.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    6. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and it's military seems rather well managed.

      Except for the fact that we keep getting into wars every two seconds, and the military costs us a fuckton of money.

    7. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 2

      i said it, as a self-contained construct, is well-managed, and seems to be perhaps the most powerful military force in the history of the world. i stand by that compliment of the US government.

      now, as how US politicians *use* that construct...well that really *is* off-topic.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    8. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The military doesn't get us into wars. It just wins them. The military doesn't cost a fuckton of money. The wars it wins cost a fuckton of money.

    9. Re:well i'm reassured! by dmbasso · · Score: 1, Insightful

      now, as how US politicians *use* that construct...well that really *is* off-topic.

      As off-topic as health care, isn't it?

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    10. Re:well i'm reassured! by thunderclap · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I gather you have never in your life been to a foreign country with a entirely different culture, like, say, the middle east. Yes it costs money. But then again, which would you like, you stuff, abilities, choices and opportunities or a roulette wheel spun before you were born. Depending on where it lands you could be pulling out busted toxic trash for a scrap of bread or you might have the opportunity to beat your wife because she drove your car. (You don't get a choice whether to beat her or not because if you opt to be merciful, you will be branded a heretic and killed in front of your children). Doubt me? I can post pics and lines from the religious texts.
      IN America, our homeless are richer sleeping in the water conduit tunnels below Las Vegas than the middle class of India and China who have beds and warm meals. How? Because in America we have choice. We have that choice because of a military that gets into wars to scare the ever loving hell out every other nation. Yes, we spend money on it.
      Please go try living without one. You will discover quickly that human nature still is dominate or be dominated.

    11. Re:well i'm reassured! by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      Exactly! The military has lobbyists to lobby for increased funds, but that's kind of their job. It is congresses job to decide whether or not the increase is reasonable..which they aren't very good at.

    12. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah I'd rather mod you down instead. Your more offtopic than he is.

    13. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did he mention Obama, or was that a revealing slip on your part?
      I'm assuming the latter

      Then you might try reading OP's post again. Here, I'll highlight the relevant part.

      well it comforting to know that the same government that managed this program is now moving on to something as *truly* important as our and our childrens healthcare.

      Now unless you'd like to argue that the government stopped managing the TSA once Obama took office...

    14. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, who modded this troll?

      Some dimwitted hack blinded by partisan politics who has a chip on his shoulder because he'd rather not deal with his cognitive dissonance. Possibly one of the "editors".

    15. Re:well i'm reassured! by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      wrong.

      i think the US government is incredible at building roads, and it's military seems rather well managed.

      also, library's kick ass.

      It's amazing what you can do when you spend as much on your military as the rest of the world combined.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    16. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then I guess we are blind. Care to tell us why this is somehow different from the other things the government handles that they actually manage to do right? Or are you just going to keep insulting, thereby ensuring that we dig ourselves in even deeper on "our" side?

      ....unless you are insulting us because you don't want us to join "your" side (which in actuality is the side you are also against). Very clever..

    17. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 4, Informative

      no...i don't believe so.

      the US government being involved in health care is a very new thing. it can be argued that the TSA was perhaps the largest new program that the US government created before the health care thing. that links the two in a very powerful and factual way.

      the US government has been using the military for hundreds of years, and the politics of military use go back thousands.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    18. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Now unless you'd like to argue that the government stopped managing the TSA once Obama took office...

      You made an unfounded assumption to come to the conclusion he was talking about the Obama administration. "The same government" could simply refer to the system of federal government that has been in place for both the TSA and ACA, regardless of who was in what office or when.

      At least that's how I read it. I'd have to agree with the GP, it's pretty knee-jerk of you to assume some slight against Obama.

    19. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      uhhh..just FYI i wouldn't give a damn about your meaningless partisan politics...i'm so over that crap i can't stand the words "republican" and "democrat" anymore.

      i'm talking about EXACTLY what the FTA's author is really saying behind his rant...which is the TSA ( which i believe was created under Bush BTW ) is a fucking joke, and the people in charge ( US government bureaucrats ) of the ideas and implementation of it are idjits.

      how could anyone think that the two programs, run by basically the same set of bureaucrats, won't eventually share the same basic outcomes?

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    20. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      well it comforting to know that the same government that managed this program is now moving on to something as *truly* important as our and our childrens healthcare.

      right?

      Exactly. Only, it's not. The ACA is to ensure more people have health *insurance*.

      I'm curious why you felt the need to break out "our childrens (sic) healthcare", as if one might assume that their (again, insurance, not healthcare) was separate from ours. Just for the emotional weight?

    21. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1

      how the hell is stating simple facts "polishing a turd"?

      please AC, enlighten me?

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    22. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      that's a good question.

      i mentioned it because i personally think that it's going to take years before the inevitably negative effects of the ACA really get shot thru the system, thus affecting our children in a much greater way then we (im 50) will ever feel.

      just like the inevitably negative effect that the $17trillion dollar debt that we are burdening our children with will eventually cause some sort of ugly corrective event.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    23. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IN America, our homeless are richer sleeping in the water conduit tunnels below Las Vegas than the middle class of India and China who have beds and warm meals. How? Because in America we have choice.

      This statement is absurd. You seem to be saying that homeless in the U.S. are richer because they can, what, choose to starve on the streets? Are you really speaking for people to claim that they are better off without beds and warm meals because they have some theoretical "choice"? I imagine a majority of them would disagree.

      The other way this is absurd is to lump two very different countries together. You do know that India is a democracy, yes? In fact, the most populous democracy on the planet.

      The *third* absurdity is your bald statement that the U.S. maintains armed forces to "get into wars to scare the ever loving hell out of every other nation". I think most politicians in both parties would facepalm over that assertion. I defy you to find any description of U.S. foreign policy by anyone with authority over it that describes the ENGAGEMENT in wars as a deterrent to other countries' aggression.

    24. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They failed you in the spelling and grammar category, no doubt!

    25. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, who modded this troll?

      If you can't see the parallels, you are willfully blind.

      No, since you think it's an insightful comparison, it just means you're the same kind of shitbird partisan that wears teabags on a hat and thinks the President was born in Kenya.

    26. Re:well i'm reassured! by Zynder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because you just used the excuse "We've always done it this way so it's ok"?

    27. Re:well i'm reassured! by Zynder · · Score: 1

      0-5? Pshhhh! No we aren't. To my knowledge, we haven't technically been in a war since 2 Sept 45 so how could we have lost 5?

      And we all know technically correct is the best kind of correct. Stay classy AC's!

    28. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      You are skilled at serially conflating things that you don't like, as though they were actually related. They are not.

    29. Re:well i'm reassured! by Zynder · · Score: 1

      Speak softly and carry a big stick- Teddy THE ORIGNAL BADASS Roosevelt

      Mutually Assured Destruction perhaps?

      I really can't help you here. You put that big word in there as a qualifier because you know it would make it practically impossible to prove. Few people here think that our military might isn't used to scare the ever loving hell out of everyone, you just can't go around saying that publicly lest you appear to be the bully that you may very well be.

    30. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      For fuck's sake, please learn how to correctly use an apostrophe before posting again.
       
      The first two are free:

      and its military seems rather well managed.

      also, libraries kick ass.

    31. Re:well i'm reassured! by Zynder · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Tennessee it is different if you're poor. I was a young single parent who was jobless. I go down to the welfare office to sign up for Tenncare and my son who was 3 at the time was enrolled at once, no questions asked. I, however, was denied Tenncare. I had absolutely zero medical bills at the time. I mention that because the lady told me that if I wanted to get Tenncare, I would need to go out and rack up approximately $16k in medical bills that I couldn't pay and THEN Tenncare would take me. What the hell kind of policy is that? I wanted Tenncare so that if something bad did go down I could manage to scrape by but the State actually advocated for me to go do irresponsible and illogical things. We do take care of our kids though at least. In that regard, there are 2 separate kinds of healthcare.

    32. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because our children and their children will be stuck with the giant clusterfuck that is ACA for their entire lifetimes and yet had zero say in it.

      Future generations are going to look back on it's creation and wonder WHAT THE FUCK WAS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO LET THAT HAPPEN!

    33. Re:well i'm reassured! by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      unfortunately, it is all related my good fellow...although it would be comforting to think it wasn't, so i get where your coming from.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    34. Re:well i'm reassured! by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure I would consider a state worker as the state advocating something. I can understand why the state wouldn't cover you unless you were in debt by medical expenses. But if you had no medical bills, then you wouldn't need coverage until you did. The kid has no fault in you being unemployed and unable to provide for him so covering him is a no brain'er.

      Covering you without some extenuating circumstances however might encourage the likelihood of you continuing to need coverage. So I think what the state was actually encouraging was you to get a job and provide for yourself while they assisted the innocent child that followed your into that mess. I guess if you are the type who looks at the glass as half empty all the time, you could find the go into medical debt sentiment in that scenario. The interesting thing is, if you are 16k in debt with no job, you are also bankrupt and could discharge that debt pretty easily.

    35. Re:well i'm reassured! by thunderclap · · Score: 2

      IN America, our homeless are richer sleeping in the water conduit tunnels below Las Vegas than the middle class of India and China who have beds and warm meals. How? Because in America we have choice.

      This statement is absurd. You seem to be saying that homeless in the U.S. are richer because they can, what, choose to starve on the streets? Are you really speaking for people to claim that they are better off without beds and warm meals because they have some theoretical "choice"? I imagine a majority of them would disagree.

      The other way this is absurd is to lump two very different countries together. You do know that India is a democracy, yes? In fact, the most populous democracy on the planet.

      The *third* absurdity is your bald statement that the U.S. maintains armed forces to "get into wars to scare the ever loving hell out of every other nation". I think most politicians in both parties would facepalm over that assertion. I defy you to find any description of U.S. foreign policy by anyone with authority over it that describes the ENGAGEMENT in wars as a deterrent to other countries' aggression.

      [most politicians are in politics for money and control]

      You believe its absurb because you lack perspective because of your lack of experience and teaching. The fact you don;t even understand the concept of compare and contrast is absurd.
      A: Those people have a choice to be in the tunnels or in a homeless shelter. They choose the tunnels for various reasons. They have food, they have shelter, then have all the ammentives they want. Several work still. They chose to be there. They can choose to leave and be elsewhere and make more money and in the years to come be as wealthy as some of our wealthiest people.
      B: In India, there is a cast system in place. No matter how you or they try to dismantle it its still there. There are people who because they were born by someone in the bottom caste they will remain all their lives without things we take for granted like basic hygenie, clean water, the ability to walk for five minutes and get something to eat of their choice from a wide array of choices. Their life will be hard sleeping on the ground in a wood or metal ramshakle hut in a slum of New Delhi, without the hope of it ever getting better.
      I have been there. I have seen people who live like this. Democracy means nothing to them. The govt means nothing to them because family and local groups still have control. Want to know why the rapes are happening in India? Because the towns allow it. Want to know why the rapes happen in egypt? Because woman their are believes to be property of men and should remain silent.
      Also obviously you are clueless about what a democracy is:
      So I will let Our Military who you despise explain it:

      From the USMC Training Manual No. 2000-25
      A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the United States Constitution). A Democracy is government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the unalienable rights of individuals while Democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs for the good of the public, or in other words social justice.
      Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three branches of government, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches for checks and balance. Lawmaking in Democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the majority by polls and/or voter referendums, which in turn is mob rule 50% plus 1 vote takes away anything from the minority. Here is one example; if 51% of the people don’t pay taxes they can vote a tax increase on the 49% that do, which is mob rule.

      Democracies always self-destruct when the non-productive majority realizes that it can vote itself handouts from the productive minority by electing the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury. To maintain their power, these candidates must adopt an ever-

    36. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So 'polish a turd' gets (Score:3, Interesting) I know what state you are moderating from. Hey good news for you. In the farm bill is the right to grow hemp again.

    37. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are. Those shadows embedded into the walls in Nagasaki are one. The still regrowing forests in Vietnam are another. Hell the fact that Atlanta is so fucked up that it can't plow 2 inches of snow is another (the burning of the city during the civil war lead to all these small suburbs springing up over the last century and a half)

    38. Re:well i'm reassured! by thunderclap · · Score: 1, Informative

      The US hasn't formally declared a war since 1945. Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq, Afganistan are all either police actions or joint military operations with active combat theaters. They are not wars.

    39. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa now. A + B conversation = shut the fuck up and get back in the peanut gallery bitch.

    40. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its amazing what you can do when you have the world's reserve currency.

    41. Re:well i'm reassured! by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      Hell the fact that Atlanta is so fucked up that it can't plow 2 inches of snow is another

      You should not need to plow two inches of snow. You shouldn't even need snow tires. Driving in snow is not that hard. You leave a bit extra room between vehicles, go slightly slower, put the car in a lower gear if need be, and if you start to slide stir into it. I had drive in snow and ice earlier this winter and had to drive in much more significant snow in previous years.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    42. Re:well i'm reassured! by styrotech · · Score: 4, Funny

      The US hasn't formally declared a war since 1945. Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq, Afganistan are all either police actions or joint military operations with active combat theaters. They are not wars.

      And we didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!

    43. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So just like all legislation. Unless future parliaments repeal or alter laws, they get to keep them.

      I'm sure once the IT is sorted, having the ACA will look better. Especially if you have a preexisting condition that would typically be excluded from your insurance.

      That's the thing that I don't get. Excluding people from healthcare insurance, or effectiblvely doing so by pricing them out of the market. It's a disgrace. And it needs someone to add some humanity back into the system: amazingly, that's the Fed. Don't expect Blue Cross et al to do it. They didn't.

    44. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The US government needs to learn a few more lessons on building roads. If you would inform us of the aspects of roadbuilding in the US that impress you, maybe some of us could disillusion you.

      For starters, our interstate highway system is demonstrably unsafe, compared the Autobahn. Have you ever noticed that nothing separates oncoming traffic? It has been pointed out to me that the Germans have double guard rails separating oncoming traffic. What do we have? A grass filled median. I have observed vehicles going out of control, and rolling, flying, coasting, skidding, or otherwise finding their way into the oncoming lanes. In view of the physical laws of nature, it is safer to hit ANYTHING other than oncoming vehicle. Steel guard rails, concrete dividers, trees, bridge abutments, ANYTHING.

      There are a large number of places in the United States where the engineers flubbed. Dead Man's Curve, in Cleveland Ohio has lots of optical warnings that the curve is unsafe at speeds over 35 mph - but they seem to fail, as year after year, idiot manage to wipe out in that curve.

      Bridges in various places during rainstorms become very unsafe. The crown of the road, couple with the incline of the road surface when it meets the incline of the approach ramp often just dams water up on the road way. I have hydroplaned fully loaded tractor trailers in these areas, while driving the posted speed limit or less. If I can float 80,000 pounds, you can rest assured that you will float your 3,000 pound personal vehicle in these areas.

      Lighting. I have rather sensitive eyes. As I age, they are becoming more sensitive to bright lights at night. I can be blinded by lights pretty easily. Truck stops, restaurants, and other businesses often put very bright lights near the highway to attract attention. Billboards often have bright lights that are aimed improperly, so that they shine into motorist's eyes. The cops themselves are on a quest to find the brightest possible lights to mount on their patrol cars. I was very literally blinded as I came around a curve in Memphis late one night, by a police car stopped at the scene of an accident. Only luck, or the hand of God, prevented me from running into the survivors and the emergency workers.

      Speed limits? Those are set by politicians, for the purpose of extracting revenues from the motoring public. When Eisenhower specced the interstate, it was intended that the interstate sustain 80 mph traffic. The human body has physiological reactions to traveling. On an open highway, with little to look at, the sound, vibrations, and general motions of the vehicle tends to lull people into relaxation and sleep at speeds around 55 mph. At speeds approaching 80 mph, everything about the vehicle tends to key the occupants into full alertness. Except for known unsafe areas, the interstates would be much SAFER with higher speed limits.

      I'm sorry, but we are merely mediocre road builders. Leaving the interstate highway system behind, the US Highway system gets worse. State and local highways are oftentimes abysmal failures.

      We CAN actually build superb highways. We have the technology, we have the knowhow, we have the materials, and we have the money to do so. We simply choose not to. Any movement to force the issue will be defeated by politicians. The courts will side with the politicians, because they love their cash cow. America will not be building any incredible highway systems in our lifetimes.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    45. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Again, I disagree. Today, the internal structuring of the military is being tampered with to accommodate various special interest groups. Those groups begin with women and gays, and continue with Muslims, atheists, and ends God knows where.

      A recent article shows that the Pentagon is reconsidering uniform requirements to permit beards and turbans for Muslims. Now consider that beards have been outlawed by our military for decades, based on "discipline" considerations. No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform. Suddenly - we are courting Muslims, so out of the goodness of our hearts, we are going to allow them to wear beards and turbans.

      A number of highly decorated professionals have been drummed out of service for the crime of failing to wholeheartedly support the gay agenda. The numbers published regarding sexual assaults on women are alarming no matter how you view them - but often enough, accusations of sexual harassment and/or assault are political tools used against good soldiers. It is impossible to even guess at the numbers of such instances, but I know for a fact that it happens. Other times, a female soldier who is busted for drugs or other infractions tries to turn the tables by accusing supervisors and investigators of sexual harassment. Again - it's impossible to even guess at the numbers, but it happens.

      The internal structure is being eroded. We no longer have the military that we had thirty or forty years ago.

      While a liberal or a progressive may feel that to be a "good thing", the fact is, our military is being improperly used to advance a number of political agendas. The effects on efficiency are all bad.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    46. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jason Edward Harrington has seen some of the same frustrations, misgivings, and objections that have crossed the mind of probably every commercial airline traveler who's flown over the last decade in the U.S. One difference: Harrington got to see them from the perspective of a TSA agent. His description of the realities of the job (including learning the rote responses that agents are instructed to reassure the public with) is wince-worthy and compelling. A sample makes it clear why the TSA has such famously low morale, even among Federal agencies: "I hated it from the beginning. It was a job that had me patting down the crotches of children, the elderly and even infants as part of the post-9/11 airport security show. I confiscated jars of homemade apple butter on the pretense that they could pose threats to national security. I was even required to confiscate nail clippers from airline pilots—the implied logic being that pilots could use the nail clippers to hijack the very planes they were flying." It only gets worse from there.

      I've got several problems with this asshole. For one he is more then likely involved with the union. [being a federal agent, with perks] and two, he [or she] figures they can cash out there story with the press/media..

    47. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know another empire that was good at building roads and and it's military seems rather well managed. Well at least until the empire stopped expanding and the money ran out.

    48. Re:well i'm reassured! by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      "and the military costs us a fuckton of money"

      Look at the percentages spent on various departments and you'll find that spending on the military is relatively small compared to other spending. Plus, national defense is one of the FEW things that the federal government is supposed to do according to the Constitution.

    49. Re:well i'm reassured! by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      i think the US government is incredible at building roads, and it's military seems rather well managed.

      As far as the roads, what metric are you using?

      The idea that there exists roads, and that they are (for the most part) in relatively good condition, is not enough. The important metric would be if the actual investment that we are putting in is worth the outcome.

      Unfortunately our system is such that the first step in maintaining the interstates is for the Federal government to take money away from the States, and the second step is for the Federal government to give money back to the States that is earmarked for interstate road maintenance. Surely you don't claim that this is an efficient method?

      As far as militarily, we clearly have the best in the world, but again is the outcome worth the investment? Its a no-brainer that we have the best military given that we have outspent the rest of the world for decades. That doesnt tell us if the money was spent well.

      I'm going to declare that you have fallen for the fallacy "the ends justify the means" and that in fact the entire problem with our federal government is centered around justifying things using this fallacy.

      A total of $6.1 trillion dollars was spent between Federal, State, and Local governments in 2013. Thats about $20,000 per person; $53,000 per household, which is the same as the median household income. If government budgets were balanced, the median household taxation would literally need to be $53,000. $6.1 trillion is also 50% more than all retail sales in the country in 2013: The government literally spent more than the people do, and the logical conclusion of that happening is corporations partnering up with the government against the people because thats quite simply where most of the money is.

      The closest thing to an argument against this all being a problem is "but that money goes back into the economy.." ... yes, but the $53000 median income per household already includes those effects, so argument destroyed.

      Most of the so-called arguments that claim that spending isnt that far out of control center around only federal spending, frequently comparing it to the entire government spending of other countries. In effect this sort of argument literally ignores almost half of all government spending in the U.S..

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    50. Re:well i'm reassured! by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      This statement is absurd. You seem to be saying that homeless in the U.S. are richer because they can, what, choose to starve on the streets? Are you really speaking for people to claim that they are better off without beds and warm meals because they have some theoretical "choice"?

      You are an idiot because he wasn't talking about choice. You brought choise into it because you didnt want to actually face the meat of his argument: Being homeless in America is nowhere near as bad as the conditions that literally 600 million Indians live in. Really. Its not.

      First of all, our homeless as a general rule do not starve to death because they have access to food. This is in stark contrast to the poor in India, where even the poor with homes are at risk of starving to death. 600 million people in India live on less than $1 per day.

      I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didnt know how fucking bad it is in India because, quite frankly, you are acting like an expert and experts are supposed to fucking know shit. Clearly you are not an expert and we know that you know that you arent, but you continue to act like one.. so fuck you.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    51. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with a hammer like that you'd have to be a fool not to use it!

    52. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A recent article shows that the Pentagon is reconsidering uniform requirements to permit beards and turbans for Muslims. Now consider that beards have been outlawed by our military for decades, based on "discipline" considerations. No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform. Suddenly - we are courting Muslims, so out of the goodness of our hearts, we are going to allow them to wear beards and turbans.

      I'm willing to listen to the military on issues of the military, but you sound like an armchair general who saw a minor change in the rules that happened recently. Many modern militaries allow facial hair -- Spain, France, Germany, .... (And historically, beards have been very common.) One of the major reasons for prohibiting it was not discipline, but for having a good seal in gas masks -- god, I know, a crazy idea, that military regulations would be set for issues of warfighting, and not whatever crazy idea you thought up.

    53. Re:well i'm reassured! by peragrin · · Score: 2

      how is the government in our health care again?

      the ACA

      sets the minimum standard insurance companies must provide. a lot of insurance plans basically failed if you tried to use them.

      Requires everyone to take part and since everyone has an equal chance of being sick and needing health care they need insurance anyways. a simple doctors visit without insurance costs hundreds of dollars.

      uses the IRS Who is watching your income anyways to monitor it to make sure you are paying for insurance anyways.

      created a website to link states, and available insurance plans in those states together so that you didn't have to go to dozens of different places to shop around. like amazon one stop shopping.

      For Car insurance you can go to X insurance company website any where in the country and they would give you the correct answers. for health insurance it varies by city even though it is owned by just a couple of companies across the country.

      lastly the USA has only moderate health care overall since most can not afford to pay for it. however we also have the most expensive care in the world by several times. we pay more for less care in the USA than anywhere else. The free market has failed miserable in Health insurance.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    54. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ACA effectively prices EVERYONE out of the healthcare market, by pushing 6k+ deductibles as standard. The result of that little tidbit is going to be a nation of people who only go to doctors for emergencies, since pretty much all the standard preventative care they would otherwise engage in is reduced to an economic choice. Very few people will choose preventative healthcare when it hits them financially. Then, of course, eventually they become unhealthy, and the now much delayed treatments they need are monsterously more expensive, as well as debilitating.

    55. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The numbers published regarding sexual assaults on women are alarming no matter how you view them - but often enough, accusations of sexual harassment and/or assault are political tools used against good soldiers.

      Except, the number of sexual assaults in the military isn't any higher than the civilian population when you look at other demographics, such as age. In fact, the military has an environment more conducive to reporting sexual assaults than any university system.

      The other thing that rarely gets reported, is that since the repeal of don't ask, don't tell, the overwhelming majority of this "increase" in sexual assaults have been male on male.

    56. Re:well i'm reassured! by dk20 · · Score: 1

      "Building roads" do you mean actual roads you drive on, or some sort of "building roads of peace" thing?
      Because US infrastructure is in terrible shape. The highways are just full of potholes as are the roads in most cities.

    57. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is this modded 4+ Insightful?! It's ignorant, hypocritical bollocks!

      "Women, gays, Muslims & atheists" are no more special interest groups than bible-bashing white males. And how the fuck do you make "accommodations" for atheists? Not force them to sing words of praise to your special interest deity?
      On an organisational level, religion should have no place in military procedures. If you're having to make "accommodations" for people absent of any religion, then there's something horribly wrong with the procedures of your military.
      And how the hell can you complain that atheists DON'T have to follow your religious doctrine, AND at the same time complain that other religious groups get to follow theirs?

      A recent article shows that the Pentagon is reconsidering uniform requirements to permit beards and turbans for Muslims.

      Suddenly - we are courting Muslims...

      Under pressure from Sikhs, the Pentagon has publicly clarified its existing procedures to permit certain practices "as long as the practices do not interfere with military discipline, order or readiness."
      And not just that, they have to go the through the procedures to request permission for every individual deployment.

      A number of highly decorated professionals have been drummed out of service for the crime of failing to wholeheartedly support the gay agenda.

      So it's OK for people to break with agreed military procedures & speak out against a minority, but it's not for a minority to request to do the same? Go fuck yourself.

      ...often enough, accusations of sexual harassment and/or assault are political tools used against good soldiers. It is impossible to even guess at the numbers of such instances, but I know for a fact that it happens. Other times, a female soldier who is busted for drugs or other infractions tries to turn the tables by accusing supervisors and investigators of sexual harassment. Again - it's impossible to even guess at the numbers, but it happens.

      Given the accuracy of your comments so far, I'll choose to take these self-professed baseless assumptions with a pinch of salt. You don't have enough information to even make a guess, but you "know" it happens? Do you have *anything* to back this up?

      ...the fact is, our military is being improperly used to advance a number of political agendas.

      Something the whole world would probably agree with you on.

      [/RANT]

    58. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when it doesn't (gulf 1 and 2, 1812, Vietnam....) in which case those are not losses, but "strategic retreats".

    59. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, you have to admit, they make it very, very easy to be anti-government these days.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    60. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you accomplish the goals you set out when you went there?

      No?
      You sure it was a tie?

    61. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He compared the poor to the middle class of India, which numbers north of 300million and have easily as much choice in life as you do.
      Seriously, he wasnt comparing the poor of America to the poor of India which have it pretty shit, but he said middle class.

      The middle class of India arguably live a better life than the middle class of the USA, they have a huge pool of people to pull from to help cooking, cleaning, shopping and looking after them in general. Sure it's the poorer, but I never said they had it great.
      (Don't worry though, since they have a job and a home, they still live a life that shits on the life of the poor in the USA, who get fed sometimes and told that they have it better than sine other guys aren't they proud to be American!!

    62. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 0

      Care to enlighten us what the military has to do to cater to Atheists? If anything, it would at best have to NOT do anything.

      Or, in other words, why do you think that the military should cater to your pet imaginary friend but not the Jews', the Mulsims' or whatever other religious group?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    63. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Last war the US military won was WW2 if I recount correctly.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    64. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked after a tie the status ante bellum is what is reestablished. Korea was a tie. Vietnam was a kick in the nuts.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    65. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A nation where people only go to the emergency room because it is to expensive to get treated before issues become emergencies?
      Sounds like every description of the American healthcare system (due to a lack of affordable health insurance) I have ever heard.

    66. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least they're not made of mud like the ones in Yerp. That's because gays and unions hate asphalt.

      Heard it on Fox.

    67. Re:well i'm reassured! by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      i think the US government is incredible at building roads, and it's military seems rather well managed.

      its

      also, library's kick ass.

      libraries.

      It horrifies me that someone who likes libraries can't spell "libraries".

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    68. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's mostly because the US made it their business to piss off pretty much everyone on the friggin' planet. Allow me to let you in on a secret: There is not a single soul outside of the US and maybe, just maybe, Israel, that wouldn't sigh a breath of relief when the US broke apart, ceased to exist or got nuked from orbit by a giant meteorite. I would be very sorry to lose some of the closest friends I have, but certainly not for the country, its government and the impact both have on world politics and economics.

      Countries have no friends, they have allies. That's a given. But in the case of the US, even their allies are not interested in their well being. The US have allies much as the average schoolyard bully has allies. They hang out with him because that way they not only don't get beat up by the bully, they may even get some scraps from the lunch money he squeezes out of the geeks. But there really is nobody in the school that doesn't want the bully gone, and should he get into trouble, nobody will come to his aid.

      And neither will anyone aid the US when they should need help. Everyone would just be cheering for them to crash and burn. Nobody really has any interest in theri existence, quite the opposite.

      That's what you get when you piss off everyone with a bully mentality.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    69. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mostly have it BECAUSE you spend that fuckton of money on the military.

      Every country so far that considered trading oil for Euros got bombed. Every time Iran starts pondering, we get to hear about their dangerous nuke program.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    70. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      The military is too expensive for its efficiency and as a European, I don't even want to comment on your roads.

      After driving a bit around the US I finally figured out why SUVs are so popular. A compact would probably vanish in the potholes on your highways.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    71. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both of your examples indicate that a strong military is a deterrent or political tool by fact of its existence. thunderclap claimed that the military "gets into wars to scare the ever loving hell out every other nation" to be effective. That's more the Kim-Jong Il doctrine than the Roosevelt doctrine. ie, that mutually assured destruction is only effective as a political tool against Russia after you have bombed China. Or Pakistan-thunderclap doesn't indicate whether all that military might needs to be used on a credible foe to "scare the ever loving hell out of every other nation."

    72. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bit tangential, but Special Forces are allowed to wear beards. Not sure what the military logic is.

    73. Re:well i'm reassured! by CBravo · · Score: 1

      The roads in the US are worse than in eastern Europe, just like any other part of infrastructure for public use in there. If you want to experience smooth roads go to the Netherlands.

      --
      nosig today
    74. Re:well i'm reassured! by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      It seems you can't tell a muslim from a Sikh. You need to close your mouth until you have done the relevant reading. Your continued blather removes all doubt - you are not equipped for the discussion.

    75. Re:well i'm reassured! by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      Blend in with the local populace.

      Sailors can have beards at sea.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    76. Re:well i'm reassured! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I call BS on much of your post.

      For starters, our interstate highway system is demonstrably unsafe, compared the Autobahn. Have you ever noticed that nothing separates oncoming traffic? It has been pointed out to me that the Germans have double guard rails separating oncoming traffic. What do we have? A grass filled median.

      Umm, on many of the highways I drive on in the U.S., when the oncoming traffic is placed closer (without a significant median), there are guardrails. If it's even closer, there's a concrete or double concrete barrier. You can argue that maybe we need more barriers, but engineers clearly use these solutions in many places in the U.S. when conditions warrant it.

      I have hydroplaned fully loaded tractor trailers in these areas, while driving the posted speed limit or less.

      In heavy enough rain, you can hydroplane. News at 11.

      There's something called "adjust your driving to conditions." You simply can't always go the posted speed limit in heavy rain. Yes, there are places where the road is not ideal and water channels or pools happen in heavy rain. Those sorts of places exist in Germany and in Europe in general too. The U.S. is HUGE, and sometimes engineers don't predict things quite right over literally millions of miles of roadways. But your assumption that you should be able to just travel the speed limit without ever hydroplaning -- I don't think that's reasonable. (The size of your vehicle also won't make this impossible: heavy aircraft have been known to hydroplane, which is the reason many airports have adopted grooves on runways.)

      Speed limits? Those are set by politicians, for the purpose of extracting revenues from the motoring public. When Eisenhower specced the interstate, it was intended that the interstate sustain 80 mph traffic.

      Sure, if we want to move troops rapidly across the country, which was part of the rationale for the interstate system.

      For normal traffic, there's no need to travel at 80 mph. In fact, it reduces gas mileage usually to go significantly above 55 or so, because air resistance increases much more rapidly and you have to fight that at high speeds.

      As for why speed limits are what they are, I'm sure there are SOME places in the U.S. where they are politically motivated... corruption is everywhere.

      But in general terms, speed limits are set for (1) safety reasons across a broad variety of road conditions, and (2) to increase traffic throughput to maximum levels. Yes, on a dry road on a perfectly clear day, you may be able to go 90 mph down a country road, but add in cross traffic, pedestrians, and any sort of weather, and maybe 40 or 45 mph is safer. A lot of times, people don't realize that proximity to residences or other issues requires a consideration of lower speeds for safety.

      Most people also don't realize the necessity and rationale for (2), though, which often plays a role for highway limits.... particularly in cities and high-traffic areas. Believe it or not, you can actually often put more cars through a stretch of road at 45 mph than 80 mph, particularly if there are lots of merges, on/off ramps, other random traffic issues and curves, etc. Merges, lane endings, on/off ramps, etc. require a lot of fast reactions to keep traffic moving. At 80 mph, people overcorrect, and a chain of brake lights can rapidly create a traffic "wave" that snarls traffic for a half hour. If everyone is traveling at 45, it might be easier for those merges, etc. to happen... you can actually increase traffic throughput this way, which is why many cities have adopted flexible speed limits on highways during rush hour.

      The human body has physiological reactions to traveling. On an open highway, with little to look at, the sound, vibrations, and general motions of the vehicle tends to lull people into relaxation and sleep at speeds around 55 mph. At speeds approaching 80 mph, everyt

    77. Re:well i'm reassured! by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those groups begin with women and gays, and continue with Muslims, atheists, and ends God knows where.

      Please explain why women, gay people, Muslims, atheists, etc can't be good military personnel. I know this much: The soldiers I've talked to and seen polled about it overwhelmingly either support or don't care about these kinds of measures. This might have something to do with the fact that when you're in a firefight you care more about whether the rest of your unit are good shots than who they like to kiss or what they think about spirituality.

      Now consider that beards have been outlawed by our military for decades, based on "discipline" considerations. No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform.

      Please explain why wearing a beard displays a lack of discipline or lack of military readiness. I'm really not understanding what the purpose of that kind of rule could possibly be, except some silly holdover from the 1950's that stereotyped bearded men as drunkards and foreigners. During the Civil War, wearing a beard was very common, and it doesn't seem to have had any effect on the skill or bravery or readiness on the troops (or at least not enough that anyone made any mention of it whatsoever in any military documents).

      While a liberal or a progressive may feel that to be a "good thing", the fact is, our military is being improperly used to advance a number of political agendas.

      Well, let me tell you of another time the military was used to "advance a political agenda": Racial integration. In 1948, Harry Truman issued an executive order desegregating the US military. Today, black people are more likely to join the military than white people, in large part because they know that the organization will treat them fairly and give them a good chance of a career. We'd probably lose 5-10% of our military personnel had Truman not done that.

      We no longer have the military that we had thirty or forty years ago.

      No, we don't, and we're at the very least no worse off for it. Running down the list of US military operations between 1974 and 1984 (the "glory days" you seem to be yearning for), the most significant military actions were the evacuation of Vietnam and the invasion of Grenada. Do you really think those were more difficult military operations than the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan?

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    78. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that US highways are poorly constructed, but I disagree with pretty much every word you wrote.

      Our highways (and bridges, and other traffic infrastructure) are built on the terms of contracts that encourage poor construction quality, because when repairs need to be made, more profit is to be had bidding on those jobs as well. In much of Europe, the firms that build roads must make all repairs at their own expense for the length of the contract, which is several years longer (typically 7) than US highways typically last before needing major repairs. This long-term responsibility results in roads that are built with much sturdier supporting roadbeds, which translates to much fewer repairs and a significantly longer road life.

      Your arguments, however, are less the rational, substantive, fact-and-evidence-based type and more the wild, senseless sputtering of an angry old man. You go beyond cherry-picking, to cite merely personal observations and anecdotes, and then generalize based on them. Much of what you write is outright laughable: Your assertion that all vehicles lull the occupants to sleep at 55, but key them into "full alertness" at 80 is not only hysterical, it demonstrates how you know essentially nothing about the interactions of a motor vehicle and the road -- despite being a big rig trucker. And as far as your night vision/light sensitivity issues, aside from the fact that, once again, you are generalization a single perspective as if it represents a significant issue, I'll sat two things: that you clearly should not be licensed to operate a motor vehicle at night, and that I'll be sure to stay off the Memphis highways at night.

    79. Re:well i'm reassured! by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      Ok so roads, military, library's that just leaves everything else they do in question.

      Please do explain how other than providing funds to local state how the Fed does roads? Please also explain how they can handle the logistics of running the military yet can't handle the logistics of building a website?

      Library's also usually down to local state gov.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    80. Re:well i'm reassured! by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      It's not the military, a soldier won't do anything without orders, this includes Generals.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    81. Re:well i'm reassured! by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      The military runs so well because face it, other than financing it the government stays the hell out of it other than saying "Go here, this is what we want to do", then it's left to the brass to make it happen.

      The reason the military is a well oiled machine is that bureaucrats keep their faces out of it. You know they don't want to get their hands dirty.

      To our soldiers, keep up the good work, you are one of the few things that make our government look like they know what they are doing!

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    82. Re:well i'm reassured! by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      well it comforting to know that the same government that managed this program is now moving on to something as *truly* important as our and our childrens healthcare.

      right?

      Two things:
      1} Healthcare is truly important while this TSA nonsense isn't. So yeah, that'd be good.
      2} Just because one project authorized by a group is done improperly doesn't mean that all - or even any - other project will be done improperly.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    83. Re:well i'm reassured! by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      There are a large number of places in the United States where the engineers flubbed. Dead Man's Curve, in Cleveland Ohio has lots of optical warnings that the curve is unsafe at speeds over 35 mph - but they seem to fail, as year after year, idiot manage to wipe out in that curve.

      I live only a few miles from there, and yes, it's a problem. Interestingly, it met all the safety standards in place in 1955 when it was designed, and also accommodated various political wranglers who were trying to knock down some buildings and preserve others. It's not really an engineering problem though, but a political one: there's been a plan to solve it sitting in the Ohio Department of Transportation office for years, but it's never gotten close to being on the list of things to do. Part of it is that the Republican-controlled state government hates the Democratic stronghold of Cleveland, but it's also simply expensive and not high on anyone's priority list.

      So your basic point stands: It's not an engineering problem, it's not a know-how problem, it's a political problem.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    84. Re:well i'm reassured! by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1
      Interesting take on the difference between a Republic and a Democracy. Given that there is not a single country on earth that has an absolute democracy, you are essentially claiming that governments are either Republics or Monarchies. So China, India and the US are Republics, while the UK, Denmark, The Netherlands are monarchies. None are democracies.

      Look up the word 'representative democracy' to understand how silly this distinction is. I know this is doctrine in the US, but it is demonstrably wrong.

    85. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 0

      You seem to have misunderstood my point. I am perfectly well aware that facial hair has no bearing on discipline. Facial hair is an indirect measure of a leader's ability to lead - "If you can't tell a man how to wear his hair, how can you tell him how to die?"

      Fact is, the US military made it policy that no service member will be permitted to wear a beard while in uniform, right around 1985 or so, soon after I left the Navy. I wore a beard while in uniform. Suddenly, beards were outlawed. It remained so for about thirty years. Suddenly - beards are alright, because politicians want to recruit more Muslims. That is some stupid shit, IMHO.

      Oh - the gas masks. Gas masks seal along a very specific line. Gas masks will seal if the hair is short. You won't make a seal with long hair all over your face, but you can trim your beard to conform the lines of the seal. I know, because I did it. Along with my shipmates, I donned my gas mask, adjusted it to ensure that it was sealed, entered the gas chamber, sat for a few minutes, then was ordered to remove the mask. I felt no effects from the CS gas until I removed my mask.

      The FACT is, beards are now permitted for political reasons, NOT for any good military reason. Beards were prohibited in the first place for political reasons, NOT for military reasons.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    86. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 0

      Excellent point that I left out. Male on male assaults do seem to have increased disproportionately.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    87. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      I've already answered the question of beards a couple posts up.

      Regarding racial integration, blacks have never had any special accomodations that weren't strictly health related. Specifically, when I was in the Navy, you were required to be either clean shaven, OR to grow a proper beard (only if you were a petty officer, junior ranks were required to be clean shaven). Black guys, however, often sported facial hair that couldn't be called a beard by any stretch of the imagination. The reason? A lot of black guys develop bumps on their faces from ingrown hairs when they shave. Wait - said "a lot of black guys". More accurately, SOME black guys develop those bumps. I don't know the percentage - some of them shaved and had no problems, some had problems - and I'm sure that some who COULD shave just decided that they weren't doing that stupid shit with the razor every day.

      Regarding gays in the military - AC posted a link above that you might find interesting: http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/mil...

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    88. Re:well i'm reassured! by mishehu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I call BS on much of your post.

      I can smell plenty of it coming from your post as well.

      Umm, on many of the highways I drive on in the U.S., when the oncoming traffic is placed closer (without a significant median), there are guardrails. If it's even closer, there's a concrete or double concrete barrier. You can argue that maybe we need more barriers, but engineers clearly use these solutions in many places in the U.S. when conditions warrant it.

      There are *vast* stretches of highway that are just as the GP described them - completely and without any barriers other than the median. Apparently you have driven on a select few roads in this country. I've driven many very long distance trips, and about the only region I have yet to drive through is the PacNorthwest.

      There's something called "adjust your driving to conditions." You simply can't always go the posted speed limit in heavy rain.

      Thanks, Captain Obvious. I think the GP already stated "while driving the posted speed limit or less". I've hydroplaned at speeds of 15 mph in extremely heavy flow on I-35 near Dallas. Do you think either I or the GP continued to drive at that speed?

      For normal traffic, there's no need to travel at 80 mph. In fact, it reduces gas mileage usually to go significantly above 55 or so, because air resistance increases much more rapidly and you have to fight that at high speeds.

      Cite your sources for this often repeated tripe. My own MPG continues to rise until it peaks when my speed exceeds 110 mph. Most any car that I've owned (and none of them were your big honking pointless SUVs or any other sort of passenger truck) continued to increase in performance up to at least 80 mph. Even in the case of a Toyota Prius, the efficiency won't peak until approximately 75 mph. This statistic that you quote is a relic of the 1970's oil embargo years and the types of cars typically driven at that time. I somehow doubt it even applies to diesel big rigs these days either.

      As for why speed limits are what they are, I'm sure there are SOME places in the U.S. where they are politically motivated... corruption is everywhere.

      Probably a non-trivial number. Remember, there are many places where the police will harass and/or arrest a private citizen who visibly warns drivers that they are approaching a speed trap. If safety was the real motivation, then the police would not harass people like this. But instead it's about the money.

      The human body has physiological reactions to traveling. On an open highway, with little to look at, the sound, vibrations, and general motions of the vehicle tends to lull people into relaxation and sleep at speeds around 55 mph. At speeds approaching 80 mph, everything about the vehicle tends to key the occupants into full alertness. Except for known unsafe areas, the interstates would be much SAFER with higher speed limits.

      What the heck are you talking about? Citation needed. Maybe in cars from 25 years ago or in your giant truck.

      To the best of my knowledge, the increase in speed limit in TX over the years did not see a significant increase in accidents or fatalities. There are plenty of roads with posted limits as high as 80 and I think even SH 130 toll has 85 even.

      In most modern cars, putting the cruise control on at high speeds will result in people relaxing... it doesn't matter whether you're going 55 or 65 or 80.

      Citation please.

      In any case, even if there were some minor benefit in terms of alertness at 80 mph, it would largely be trumped by the vast increases of kinetic energy that happen as you go faster at high speeds -- which means a subsequent significantly greater time and effort to stop safely... or greater energy thrown into collision s

    89. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not Muslims, Sikhs. Not that you'd know the difference, you paranoid bigot.

    90. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That clearly means that all the gays that have been allowed to enroll (and there was no gays before) are now raping everybody. Either that or suddenly men are less afraid to report sexual assault. Now which is more likely ?

    91. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    92. Re:well i'm reassured! by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      also, library's kick ass.

      libraries.

      It horrifies me that someone who likes libraries can't spell "libraries".

      Now, be kind, maybe he just left out a "the." Then the contraction was properly used for "library is." Add the necessary hyphen, and

      "Also, the library [of Congress] is kick-ass."

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    93. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      We're about even. I call BS on your post as well. You have used bandwidth to bash me, and to question my own anecdotal evidence, with nothing more than opinion.

      1. My vision is corrected to 20/20 with lenses
      2. I am not easily distracted, and in fact, I have nearly 100,000 miles on motorcycles in addition to a couple million miles in tractors to demonstrate that my situational awareness is far superior to the average motorist's.
      3. I can drive at night just fine - but I am getting more sensitive to lights being used improperly. The quest for ever brighter lights leads to the results sought by a "dazzler" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...
      4. I am aging. Fuck you very much.
      5. Nowhere did I state that I drive fast in bad conditions - you have made an invalid assumption. Hydroplaning a truck on a dark rainy night only indicates that I misjudged how bad conditions were in a low spot between two inclined surfaces met.
      6. I drive big trucks - you got one out of seven right.
      7. I can and do drive a lot faster than 80 mph, thank you very much. The Yamaha 600 outside my door exceeds 150 mph quite easily. I've not found it's top speed, but it is well over 150.

      http://www.motorists.org/press...

      Citations that directly support my position are hard to find, and they seldom address the issue directly. But - that little paradoxical article should catch your attention.

      Driving at high speed fatigues a driver in less time than driving at low speeds. But, the distance covered before fatigue begins to set in is considerably greater. Feel free to do your own research. More than 40 years of real life experience convinces me that I am right. You simply don't find speed freaks falling asleep at the wheel. You find them involved in completely different types of accidents - if you find them in accidents.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    94. Re:well i'm reassured! by G-forze · · Score: 1

      Please explain why wearing a beard displays a lack of discipline or lack of military readiness.

      It is my understanding that beards are disallowed in the infantry, because they prevent the gas mask to properly seal around your face. (Same probably goes for fighter pilots, but in their case it's about the oxygen mask.) This would also explains why it was not a problem in the Civil War, when chemical warfare was not yet invented, or at sea where the risk of a gas attack is minimal.

      --
      "There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
    95. Re:well i'm reassured! by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      California is more or less a direct democracy, and it most certainly has self destructed because of that very fact, as was quoted from the training manual, California has voted itself more hand outs and lower taxes, and as a result has all sorts of issues in its governments.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    96. Re:well i'm reassured! by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      If anything was learned from all of Assanges leaks, its that mean of the countries in the middle east that call us evil publicly, beg us for help and love us for supporting them privately.

      You're an idiot if you believe that.

      The US has plenty of issues with its foreign policy, but if you truly believe what you said, you really are ignorant of whats going on in the world.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    97. Re:well i'm reassured! by mixed_signal · · Score: 1

      Like everything in engineering, there are numerous tradeoffs - cost, land availability, and safety tradeoffs between different construction methods. Apparently there have been studies of accidents with wide grass medians versus guardrails and decisions are made based available land and conditions. IIRC, the wide grass medians can actually be safer because cars will run off and have a chance to slow down without reaching the other side with oncoming traffic. Notice how many of these wide medians are lower in elevation in the center, so it's uphill to get to the other side. Close guard rails are guaranteed to push the out of control cars back into traffic. In some areas they have both - a wide median of mostly grass with a guardrail right down the middle.

    98. Re:well i'm reassured! by germansausage · · Score: 1

      "beards and turbans for Muslims". ??? Beards and turbans are a fashion accessory for Muslims. For Sikhs, however, they are a religious necessity; part of the Khalsa. Are you mixing up Moslems and Sikhs? Americans often do that. FWIW Sikhs, with turbans,have a long military history and fought with distinction in the British, Indian and Canadian armies. See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...

    99. Re:well i'm reassured! by BitZtream · · Score: 0, Insightful

      We have states with more roads than your entire continent. Get some perspective.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    100. Re:well i'm reassured! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      For normal traffic, there's no need to travel at 80 mph. In fact, it reduces gas mileage usually to go significantly above 55 or so, because air resistance increases much more rapidly and you have to fight that at high speeds.

      Cite your sources for this often repeated tripe. My own MPG continues to rise until it peaks when my speed exceeds 110 mph. Most any car that I've owned (and none of them were your big honking pointless SUVs or any other sort of passenger truck) continued to increase in performance up to at least 80 mph.

      Good lord. Well, this is enough to call your whole post bogus already.

      Try a freakin' search engine. The second link that came up for me is a 2009 study from Consumer Reports, with a variety of vehicles.

      To the best of my knowledge, the increase in speed limit in TX over the years did not see a significant increase in accidents or fatalities.

      That may be the case. There certainly are situations where raising the speed limit has not increased fatalities, but usually in places where (1) people generally already drove significantly over the limit, and (2) people did not actually increase their speeds on average to keep up with the corresponding increase in limit (in other words, if the limit went up 10 mph, the average speed went up only a little).

      But this is irrelevant to the GP's point, which was accusing politicians of lowering speed limits for revenue purposes. If that does happen, my guess is it happens around cities, where highway speed limits are often significantly lowered (and also there are more likely to be a greated density of cops around to collect tickets). My point is that often there are other reasons for those lowered limits -- beyond safety, often the desire to prevent traffic problems.

      In most modern cars, putting the cruise control on at high speeds will result in people relaxing... it doesn't matter whether you're going 55 or 65 or 80.

      Citation please.

      Well, there are a number of studies showing decreased attention for people using cruise control, such as this one. It's clear that reaction times are increased, etc. The higher the speed you're traveling, the more problematic these increased reaction times are.

      I haven't really done a search for studies, but I've talked to a LOT of people who agree that the "feel" of higher speeds in many newer cars has become a lot smoother in recent years. Lots of car companies even advertise how quiet and smooth their rides now are.

      I'm not saying the difference in traveling at 55 vs. 80 is nil, but I don't think it's anywhere near as noticeable in recent cars. Given the inherent additional danger of higher speeds, I think it's on the burden of you and GP to prove that people somehow are alert enough to actually drive "more safely" overall at 80 compared to 55.

      You're pretty much street pizza at speeds greater than 60mph. The risk of bodily injury and the mortality rate increase from a speed of 60 mph to 80 mph is such a small number that you can consider it a foregone conclusion that you're not coming home in one piece or at all.

      By that logic, why stop at 80 mph? Why not travel at 100 mph? 120 mph? 140 mph? It's already a foregone conclusion that you're going to die in a crash at any speed over 60, so why bother considering safety at all?

      Of course that's nonsense. The faster you go, the more reaction time you need to avoid anything or make any changes to what you're doing. Combined with the increased kinetic energy that increases with the square of velocity, driving faster still is more likely to get you killed.

      Sure, in certain types of severe collisions, you're going to

    101. Re:well i'm reassured! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      We're about even. I call BS on your post as well.

      Yeah, you know what -- I'm sorry. I really am. I've been having a weird couple days, and I've been posting more extreme posts than usual.

      So, really, I am truly sorry. I was more annoyed at mods who rated your post highly for something that I thought had a lot of opinion and anecdote than I was annoyed at you. My rhetoric was unnecessary.

      to question my own anecdotal evidence, with nothing more than opinion.

      Actually, a lot of what I said is backed up by facts and studies. I pointed out a few of them in another reply above. I can provide more for some other points as well (like the rationale for decreased limits, which originally had to do with fuel economy stuff in the 1970s, but now generally has to with traffic concerns on many highways).

      Citations that directly support my position are hard to find, and they seldom address the issue directly. But - that little paradoxical article should catch your attention.

      Yes, I'm aware of that study and others. I'm aware that lower speed limits don't always save lives, nor do they always result in people actually driving slower.

      What I was arguing against is that in your post you conflated the idea that (1) higher speed limits are desireable and (2) higher speeds are desireable. I think there are good reasons to question what we think we know about (1) and good psychological arguments to make different choices for posted limits. But I emphatically deny that there is any evidence out there that we'd be better off if everyone were driving 80 mph on highways overall instead of 55, even in places without obvious "danger" reasons to have a lowered limit.

    102. Re:well i'm reassured! by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform.

      You have obviously forgotten that beards were allowed in the US Navy while Admiral Zumwalt was Chief of Naval Operations. The world did not end and no ships were lost because of this. Admiral Zumwalt also permitted beer dispensing machines in barracks (not shipboard.) A great man IMHO. As I recall, the Coast Guard also permitted beards for a time.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    103. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Those medians can be tricky. I witnessed an accident in Alabama one night. The driver apparently fell asleep, and drifted over the berm, into the median. I watched him jerk the wheel away from oncoming headlights, back toward his own lanes. He reached the top of that incline, and jumped over the highway into the grass on the other side. He continued rolling at an angle, into a huge briar patch before the car came to a stop. Several of us ran to the car, to find his seat belt still fastened, the radio still playing, the key still on with the engine stalled - and no sign of the driver. We searched for about twenty minutes, before finding him lying in the briars.

      Cops arrived, ambulance arrived, he was loaded up, and all of us passers by dispersed. I never did learn how badly he was hurt, or if he survived.

      And, you are right about guard rails, as well. They don't always have the intended results when a vehicle smashes into them either.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    104. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      What year did Zummie step down from that office? I served in Zummie's Navy. Remember the bus driver uniforms? I resented that inanity more than any other policy, doctrine, regulation, tradition, or law which I was made aware of. The damned fool fucked with military tradition and custom to no good end.

      http://www.history.navy.mil/li...

      Coming Soon The New Uniforms

      The first of July this year will mark the beginning of a period which will see great changes in the Navy uniform. Inasmuch as All Hands Magazine and the Navy Uniform Affairs Office have received a number of questions on this subject, the Uniform Affairs Office has provided us the following answers:

      Q. Why was the enlisted men's uniform changed?

      A. Mainly because Navymen indicated that they wanted a change. In December 1970, a poll was taken among 4000 Navymen of all ranks and rates. Those queried were scientifically selected so their views would represent those of 95 per cent of the entire Navy. Results of the questionnaire showed that 80 per cent of all enlisted men E-6 and below preferred that the dress blue uniform be replaced by a coat and tie style. Since 92 per cent of the officers and chiefs who were queried had a favorable opinion of their dress blues, the Navy decided to use it as the basic uniform to symbolize a united organization striving for common goals.

      There is half a page of more Q. and A. at that link.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    105. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The military did away with beards after the advent of chemical warfare. Gas-masks don't seal properly unless the face is clean shaven.

    106. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough - we can agree to disagree. I think that speed limits between 55 and 70 make good sense in a lot of highly populated areas. But, I am very much aware that higher speed limits make sense in a lot of America.

      Are you also aware of the highway engineering rule of the 85th percentile, for setting sensible speed limits? In effect, you build the highway, open it to traffic with no speed limits at all. Observe traffic for a period of time, and record the speeds. Traffic engineers say that you set the speed limit to accomodate that 85th percentile, and almost all of the remaining 15 percent will slow down to that speed limit. That method has real science behind it!

      Personally - I have driven at some very high speeds, but there are places where I believe the posted speeds to be to high. The stretch of I-30 going west from Texarkana is now 75 mph - and I believe it to be to crowded to drive that fast. Once you get past New Boston, 75 becomes reasonable, but the roughly twenty miles between New Boston and Texarkana should only be 65 - it stays crowded, day and night. If I sat, and searched my memory, I could probably list another twenty places where the speed limit is to high.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    107. Re: well i'm reassured! by phmadore · · Score: 1

      You're retarded. It's obviously a man eg Jason Edward. And federal workers don't have the same NLRB rights as civilian workers. STFU bro.

    108. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain why wearing a beard displays a lack of discipline or lack of military readiness. I'm really not understanding what the purpose of that kind of rule could possibly be, except some silly holdover from the 1950's that stereotyped bearded men as drunkards and foreigners. During the Civil War, wearing a beard was very common, and it doesn't seem to have had any effect on the skill or bravery or readiness on the troops (or at least not enough that anyone made any mention of it whatsoever in any military documents).

      Beards may not have been a sign of military unreadiness in the Civil War, but they have become so in World WarI. They interfere with the airtightness of gas masks. Daily shaving was actually not even a habit among civilians before WWI, and it's not working well with straight-edge razors anyway unless you own several razors (the edge takes days to stabilize after each shave).

    109. Re: well i'm reassured! by phmadore · · Score: 1

      In the army it is considered sexual assault if the other party is intoxicated, no matter the circumstance. That's what our EO training taught us anyway.

    110. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain why wearing a beard displays a lack of discipline or lack of military readiness.

      It can interfere with the proper sealing of a gas mask. Not a problem they had in the Civil War...

      Although at least one Sikh with full beard has proven a good gas mask seal.

      AC

    111. Re: well i'm reassured! by phmadore · · Score: 1

      You should get a book on spelling and grammar next time you go to one of these libraries you speak about.

    112. Re:well i'm reassured! by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Grenada, Panama, Gulf War 1, Afghanistan, Iraq.

      You may not agree with them, or much like the results, but they were clear military victories. The inability to govern afterwards or install a stable friendly regime nothwithstandnig.

    113. Re:well i'm reassured! by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      I agree that the uniform change sucked massively, or maybe more than that.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    114. Re:well i'm reassured! by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      well it comforting to know that the same government that managed this program is now moving on to something as *truly* important as our and our childrens healthcare.

      right?

      Don't forget edumacation.

      "Childrens do learn."

    115. Re:well i'm reassured! by shaitand · · Score: 2

      Other governments spend dramatically less per citizen with total government provided healthcare than the US government spends on healthcare per citizen with no national healthcare at all.

      If they told the entrenched medical system and insurance system to take a hike and copied a successful system from people who have already solved the problem it would work fine. Unfortunately, they won't, they'll pull an Obamacare half assed solution that really just lines the pockets of insurance companies and it will be the fault of the people who say the government can't manage healthcare because they will push against any attempt at it and try to keep as much private as possible. Whether you support national healthcare or not, if there is going to be national healthcare you need to recognize that it is all or none, a half measure is a really expensive waste of time.

    116. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are missing the point. Nobody here is saying that having a good military not needed. On the contrary, it can be very useful in a variety of situations.

      Too much of a good thing is usually bad though. One poster here mentioned the USA spends more on military than the rest of the world combined. Google search leads me to several graphs which put it between 40-50% of the entire world's military spending depending on the year number. Either of these numbers seem excessive to me for a single country. Especially excessive when factoring in population counts.

      Of course I am assuming that your primary goal is defense, in which case such a large force is really not necessary. So why then? Maybe you are secretly just waiting to declare war on the Entire Rest Of The World, in which case, yeah you might need it. Or maybe more likely you think the Entire Rest Of The World is out to get you, in which case you should collectively get yourselves checked for paranoia and other mental illnesses.

    117. Re:well i'm reassured! by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Those groups begin with women and gays, and continue with Muslims, atheists, and ends God knows where."

      That capital G really tells me all I need to know. The special interests of Christians have no business in our military or our government.

      "The internal structure is being eroded. We no longer have the military that we had thirty or forty years ago."

      Really? The Navy has had women in service since WWII. Despite all the cracks about men alone cooped on a ship for months it really was never the case, there are and have not been any shortage of women in uniform. There are sexual assaults everywhere, every day. 1 in 6 women in the general population have been raped. The military does a better job of catching and punishing offenders.

      As for the religious requirements of Muslims. Every man and woman in uniform swears an oath to defend and support the Constitution and the people of the United States of America. Christians, Jews, Church of Satanists, and every other federally recognized religion are granted flexibility to freely practice their religion in the military because the Constitution says so. Examples of people who aren't allowed are not justification for denying Muslims their Constitutional rights, they are additional things that need fixed.

      The anti-gay agenda stems from people who want military policy to be based on their religious beliefs and want to keep military policy that stems from days when policy was improperly and unconstitutionally written on the foundation of religious beliefs. In some cases the opposition stems from simple homophobia. This indicates a lack of self discipline and moral character. Having homosexuals around isn't going to turn anyone gay, it will potentially provide opportunities and some with tendencies and curiosity who might have been afraid to explore them might take advantage of them of their own free will but there is nothing wrong with that and frankly it's nobodies damned business or concern. Similarly, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have the expectation to expect men and women in uniform to suck it up and get over silly and sad personal emotional hangup's over whether or not someone might (or more likely might not) be enjoying the sight of them in a shower room. This has the same actual impact as being seen by someone who could care less or finds the sight of your disgusting and far less than the "mean and rough" way your drill sergeant or petty officer speaks to you in boot camp. Man up pussy, the girls are tough enough to get over it.

      And yes, I served my time in the military.

    118. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The camel is sticking his nose into the tent.

    119. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we kicked ass in Grenada!

      Edit: CAPTCHA = victors

    120. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have been involved in Medicare and Medicaid for a long time and I know people let out a sigh of relief that their illness will be taken care of now that they're 62 or 65. My aunt was 61 and was totally screwed once she lost had job and was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer.

    121. Re:well i'm reassured! by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      There are generally two types of road grades used for interstates: "rural" interstates with a wide median and narrower urban/mountain interstates with barriers in place of a median. These designations are nominal and sometimes the urban style is used in rural areas to save money or for retrofit lane expansions.

      Germany has far less miles of highway than the US so it's easier to build and maintain them to a higher spec. Adding barriers for the entire system would be cost prohibitive to install and they make snow plowing and grass cutting more difficult. FWIW some stretches of rural interstate in Missouri have wire rope barriers on one side. They inconveniently prevent pulling off to the left in the event of an emergency.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    122. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to defend this guy's post, but the reason beards are outlawed in the military is because they make it impossible for your gas mask to get a seal. This wasn't a big deal in the American Civil War as gas masks were used until the next century.

    123. Re:well i'm reassured! by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure the Federal government is *involved*, but *how* it is involved surely makes a difference. The Federal Government actually *runs* security at airports. It does not run non-military health care facilities. It doesn't even provide insurance except to its employees and their families and the poor. It's actual participation in health care and health care decisions is quite limited.

      The Federal government involvement in health care, broadly speaking, is limited to the following five areas:

      (1) Mandates individual coverage for US residents.
      (2) Sets minimal standards for what must be covered to meet the mandate.
      (3) Subsidizes low income insurance premiums
      (4) Provides free alternative insurance for households making less than 133% of the poverty line *in participating states*.
      (5) Provides a health care "exchange" on which consumers can shop for insurance *in states that decline to provide this service to their citizens*.

      That's it. Obamacare is a private sector based health care scheme -- essentially the same scheme, in fact, developed by the conservative Heritage Foundation for Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole in 1996. There is no way to ensure the bulk of Americans have routine health care with *less* federal involvement than what is outlined above.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    124. Re:well i'm reassured! by Solandri · · Score: 1

      the US government being involved in health care is a very new thing.

      No it isn't. The US government has been involved in health care since Medicare began in 1966. In 2009, the year before the ACA was signed into law, the U.S. government (i.e. excluding private health care spending) spent as percent of GDP more on Medicare and its ancillary health programs than the government of Canada spent for its universal health care program. If the U.S. government truly wanted universal health coverage, it was already spending enough to provide it before the ACA.

      I suspect the entire public vs. private health care debate was just a red herring, meant to occupy and distract the voting public. The real problem is probably government corruption which passes laws and awards contracts based on cronyism and bribes, and thus inflates our health care costs. I suspect the ACA is just going to be more of the same, and won't help bring down our health care costs.

    125. Re:well i'm reassured! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      A wise person will go to great lengths to avoid ever being trapped in the median. That is, never pull off to the left. Once stopped, you are a sitting duck between two fast lanes, each moving in opposite directions. I have NEVER pulled off into the median. Pulling off to the right gives you room to drive right off of the road, then for you to move your person further yet away from traffic. That parallels cops being taught to never approach a stopped car on the driver's side. A smart cop goes to the passenger side window, where passing traffic can't clip his ass while he is talking to you.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    126. Re:well i'm reassured! by styrotech · · Score: 1

      Hehe. Try googling that line....

    127. Re:well i'm reassured! by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You left out reaction time. Even at 55 mph most people are often overdriving their reaction time. How long does it take to stop? How long does it take you to decide to stop? How far have you gone in that amount of time?

      The only thing that makes driving in fast traffic even approximately safe is that most of the traffic is usually moving at the same speed, so it take them time to stop too. This, however, can lead to pileups when there is a sudden accident. This can be caused by a blowout, or nervous twitch or several other uncommon things, but when a lot of traffic is involved and a lot of time, uncommon things happen with uncomfortable frequency.

      FWIW, I've stopped driving because I don't consider myself a safe enough driver. I also don't consider about half of the other drivers on the road to be safe enough. I'm not that bad a driver, but after I tail-ended another car on a freeway in the fog I reconsidered my capabilities. The law found me not at fault. I didn't. But driving slower would have been as dangerous, because of the other traffic. The only safe thing to do would have been to stop at a motel and wait for the fog to lift...but getting to that motel.... (And, to be honest, I didn't even consider that I shouldn't be on the road in that kind of weather.)
      (P.S.: I was driving slower than most of the traffic, but the car I hit had stopped on the freeway. Yah, he shouldn't have done that. But if I'd been driving safely, I could have avoided him, or stopped before I got there. As it was, by the time I could tell he was stopped, I couldn't stop.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    128. Re: well i'm reassured! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Interesting, I don't recall the government replacing all of the private health industry with government employees. That's what did happen (in real life even) with airport security. One of the largest socializations to ever happen in this nation, the health industry is still very much private (I have choices of for profit insurance, to get for profit medical care, maybe you're on medicaid or medicare, so it's different for you).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    129. Re:well i'm reassured! by oblivionboy · · Score: 1

      Wow, and we can see why the US is so fucked up. Having medical coverage should have no relationship to if you have a job or not. In fact if you're jobless and poor, and have no coverage, but need something simple like an annual checkup -- preventative medicine being the basis of keeping ANY medical system costs down -- you might be deeply discouraged from this, because the alternative is not eating.

      Really stupid thinking.

    130. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, Pyrrhus won, too...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    131. Re:well i'm reassured! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Mexico City has more people than my whole country. Should that make me think that it's better governed, too?

      Quantity does not equal quality. It's not even a sensible substitute.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    132. Re:well i'm reassured! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It is entirely possible with respect to GP, but some Muslims (notably, Salafi) do consider it haram to shave, or in any way trim the beard.

    133. Re:well i'm reassured! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      I've been living in US for over 3 years now, and I've yet to see a pothole on a highway.

      I'm sure there are some out there somewhere. But it's a big country. Your experiences with one part of it do not necessarily translate to the rest of it.

    134. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Requires everyone to take part and since everyone has an equal chance of being sick and needing health care they need insurance anyways. a simple doctors visit without insurance costs hundreds of dollars.

      This is true over the long haul, but not for younger adults. However, all can be affected equally by accidents, younger adults seem to have higher incidents of this. So requiring everyone to take part makes sense.

    135. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately your kind of magic thinking leads people to vote against their own interests. That makes me a sad panda.

    136. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      If you mean that big word "engagement", I put it in there because the gp post made that assertion. Your complaint that it's practically impossible to prove is moot, because I responded to the poster's claim that the U.S. *fights* wars with the intent to scare other countries.

      That's not at all what Roosevelt did - he used the THREAT of war, not prosecution of war itself. If you don't understand the difference, then as you say, "I really can't help you here".

    137. Re:well i'm reassured! by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      Well I understand your example, although the original poster was referring to the federal government, not states. And Tennessee? Yeah, I imagine that's all kinds of different from most of the U.S.

    138. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to enlighten us what the military has to do to cater to Atheists?

      Ideally, it would stop the prayer at official ceremonies (including the "mandatory fun" ones). It often offends me and I'm a Christian, just not one of "those".

      If anything, it would at best have to NOT do anything.

      Or, in other words, why do you think that the military should cater to your pet imaginary friend but not the Jews', the Mulsims' or whatever other religious group?

      Precisely the issue. The military only caters to one (ironically mine), but that doesn't make the catering in any form acceptable. I worked this out myself by just ceasing participation.

    139. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have states with more roads than your entire continent. Get some perspective.

      Actually, I was shocked at how bad the roads were the last time I returned home to the US. His statement about SUVs was spot on. We (the Aemrican people) have fallen for the "but it's so big and spread out" excuse for far, far too fucking long. We built the damn roads and they charge us to drive on them (aside from the fucking tolls, we pay a healthy gas tax that averages 49.5 cents/gallon). The least they could do is fill the fucking potholes.

      "America is too big for decent broadband". Fuck off with that, too. It's bullshit.

    140. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name a country with a population larger than 300 million that has already solved the problem? You can't because there isn't one. The solutions are from countries whose population is smaller than some of our cities. Sure the Scandinavians have free healthcare, that will work for LA or NYC. Lets see how well it would work if we multiplied the population by a factor of 10. It wouldn't. It would break. No one has solved the health care problem.

    141. Re:well i'm reassured! by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      So what the hell happened with Atlanta then?

    142. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

    143. Re:well i'm reassured! by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      Hell the fact that Atlanta is so fucked up that it can't plow 2 inches of snow is another

      You should not need to plow two inches of snow. You shouldn't even need snow tires. Driving in snow is not that hard. You leave a bit extra room between vehicles, go slightly slower, put the car in a lower gear if need be, and if you start to slide stir into it. I had drive in snow and ice earlier this winter and had to drive in much more significant snow in previous years.

      So what the hell happened with Atlanta then?

      Incompetent bad drivers.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    144. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 days out of eery 28 with PMS, and she's got access to military grade hardware. You do the math....

    145. Re:well i'm reassured! by psithurism · · Score: 1

      Driving in snow is not that hard

      Yeah, but like alot of things tha t aren't hard, they are hard to people completely new to it with none of the common knowledge people who do these things have about it.

      When I first realized I didn't know how to steer on snow, luckily everyone around me did know how, and no accidents occurred when I went spinning down the freeway. In Atlanta, I've been told, most people aren't experienced with snow driving, one person losing control starts a chain reaction of people suddenly realizing they can't control their vehicles.

    146. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My, what twisted logic! What most people don't understand is that it is not that easy to go 16K into medical debt without insurance. Most healthcare providers won't even accept you as a patient because the likelihood of getting paid is pretty low. So to get into debt that far, they generally have to use the emergency room of the county hospital as the primary care provider. Terrific use of resources....and guess who is paying for it! Especially if they discharge it in bankruptcy (which means the lawyers get a cut as well....great...lets spread it around!)

      And generally the they won't show up at the emergency room until it "really hurts" in which case it is probably far worse than if there was a preventable care policy in place.

      sumdumass thinks it is simple to waltz down the street and get a job that provides some measure of healthcare.....guess what...Most unskilled jobs these days don't provide any healthcare cuz it costs so much! Moniker is appropriate.....

    147. Re:well i'm reassured! by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Wow, and we can see why the US is so fucked up. Having medical coverage should have no relationship to if you have a job or not.

      Medical coverage does not have any relationship to you having a job or not outside of your ability to provide for it and yourself. There are plenty of people with no jobs and medical coverage. The biggest difference is that they pay for it themselves or someone they know helps them rather then the state taking your money and giving it to their benefit. It creates a situation where an unemployed person has to refuse some levels of jobs in order to maintain that state provided coverage else they take an effective pay cut going to work.

      But on that note, medical coverage is not near as important as medical treatment. Coverage simply means someone will eventually pay for a certain amount of medical services or treatment and little more. It doesn't even guarantee that the latest cure all will be used or that the most cost effective treatments will be used.

      preventative medicine being the basis of keeping ANY medical system costs down

      Hogwash. Preventative medicine can keep some costs down, but there is no direct correlation between lower costs and checkups- just a difference in procedures and when the money is spent. There is however a direct correlation between early detection and survivability rates in so many different situations that it is beneficial if you want to live a long life. OF course having a job and taking care of yourself is beneficial if you want to live a long life too.

    148. Re:well i'm reassured! by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I can see why you posted this as an AC. I wouldn't want to be associated to it in any way either.

      Your problem is that you think the solution to a jobless person without insurance is to give them insurance. I and the rest of the US seem to think the solution is to get them a job so they can buy insurance themselves. The point of the tenn law is to not let you suffer something catastrophic as in you racked up some serious medical bills which is probably why you are not working too. It is not to encourage you to go out and rack up a bunch of medical bills the moment you get fired or your company relocates to India.

      So by your own example, it is very difficult to rack up 16k in medical debt without insurance. Do you think it would be easier to find a job instead? Because that would be what the goal of the law seems to be despite your focus on how to get the government to provide medical coverage at any costs.

      And this notion that unskilled jobs do not provide medical coverage is rubbish. In a free country, if you want it, you provide it. I'm not sure why you think everyone other then yourself is responsible for your own life but that kind of thinking will not get you far in life. There are many programs in place even before the ACA that would allow someone making a little more then minimum wage to be able to afford medical coverage of some types. The problem is, and this is why the ACA seems to be struggling so much, that most people who are young and not making much money want to spend the money they do make on something other then medical coverage that the might not ever need.

    149. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the "most powerful" not because it's well run or efficient, but because we spend *assloads* of money maintaining it. It's barely more than a jobs program and a way to fund corrupt defense and weapons companies.

    150. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 in 6 women in the general population have been raped.

      I'm calling BS on this. It sounds like it comes from a source that wants it to be true. At any rate, while I've heard it numerous times, I've seen no compelling evidence that it's true.

    151. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then again, which would you like, you stuff, abilities, choices and opportunities or a roulette wheel spun before you were born.

      Nice red herrings. This has nothing to do with what I said. X being worse than Y does not mean that Y is good.

      We have that choice because of a military that gets into wars to scare the ever loving hell out every other nation.

      You must despise freedom if you think it is appropriate to let government thugs threaten every other nation on the planet with wars.

      Please go try living without one.

      You seem to be engaging in some straw men here. Do you have a brain?

    152. Re:well i'm reassured! by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      Look at the percentages spent on various departments and you'll find that spending on the military is relatively small compared to other spending.

      X being smaller than Y does not mean that X is not large.

      With that said, if you added up all the money we spend on wars, things like the NSA, TSA, DOD, and absolutely all the military or defense-related operations or organizations that we have, the number is absolutely huge.

      Plus, national defense is one of the FEW things that the federal government is supposed to do according to the Constitution.

      That does not justify this excessive waste.

    153. Re:well i'm reassured! by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      THIS !

      Partisan politics IS THE Status Quo.

      The shell game of picking a side, the "lesser of two evils", is a con game, and the public looses every time.

      People don't seem to understand that your "choosing" a side is engineered, predicted, and manipulated. Because, yeah, "choosing" one fake option over another instead of just saying loudly "I don't want either, they both suck ass and we demand a real choice" ultimately forces real change that impacts too many wallets to be permitted.

    154. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Health care is a known, defined requirement provided the world over by qualified professionals.

      The TSA was never that. Governments can do health care very well. Granted the US government, crippled by a dysfunctional Constitution and consequent lack of democracy and accountability, is a special case among developed nations.

    155. Re:well i'm reassured! by Macman408 · · Score: 2

      There are *vast* stretches of highway that are just as the GP described them - completely and without any barriers other than the median. Apparently you have driven on a select few roads in this country. I've driven many very long distance trips, and about the only region I have yet to drive through is the PacNorthwest.

      Yes, of course there are many locations without barriers. In my area, there is insufficient space to have a grass median, and so every highway has a barrier between directions. It's a calculated equation of cost of land versus cost of a barrier, along with accident rates and traffic density. Of course, these aren't always updated, since the interstate system was designed so long ago and receives only few updates due to funds that are typically limited. I'm sure many places would warrant barriers now that did not when originally designed.

      Thanks, Captain Obvious. I think the GP already stated "while driving the posted speed limit or less". I've hydroplaned at speeds of 15 mph in extremely heavy flow on I-35 near Dallas. Do you think either I or the GP continued to drive at that speed?

      The point is, neither of you should have been driving that speed in the first place.

      For normal traffic, there's no need to travel at 80 mph. In fact, it reduces gas mileage usually to go significantly above 55 or so, because air resistance increases much more rapidly and you have to fight that at high speeds.

      Cite your sources for this often repeated tripe. My own MPG continues to rise until it peaks when my speed exceeds 110 mph. Most any car that I've owned (and none of them were your big honking pointless SUVs or any other sort of passenger truck) continued to increase in performance up to at least 80 mph. Even in the case of a Toyota Prius, the efficiency won't peak until approximately 75 mph. This statistic that you quote is a relic of the 1970's oil embargo years and the types of cars typically driven at that time. I somehow doubt it even applies to diesel big rigs these days either.

      I would suggest a high school physics class. Aerodynamic drag at high speeds is proportional to the square of your velocity; so going from 55 to 110 mph doesn't double your drag, it quadruples it.

      Also, I drive a Prius. There is a direct correlation between low speed and high mpg. Somebody even made this handy dandy graph of mpg at a variety of constant speeds in his Prius. The faster you go, the worse your fuel economy, full stop.

      It is true that the optimal speed for mpg varies by vehicle; a lot of things go into the calculation, but you typically want to be at the lowest efficient speed in your highest gear; the efficient speed may be higher if your engine is particularly inefficient at low speeds. A good example of this was Top Gear's "race" of a Prius versus a BMW, with the Prius at top speed (~110 mph) getting 17 mpg, compared to the BMW which was getting 19 mpg (because it is optimized to run at much higher speeds).

      So it may be possible that your car does very well at high speeds, because they optimized it for high speeds (did you buy some type of sports car?). But most passenger vehicles are optimized for the speeds that people normally drive - or rather, they're optimized for the EPA test cycle, which in turn is meant to be representative of what people normally drive.

    156. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right... All the US seems to care about is the amount of might it can throw around. Don't worry tho, even though the US is behind every other first world country in education, healthcare costs, and infrastructure there is still time to catch up. If all other first world countries can keep their social contracts, we can surly do the same.

      Guns

    157. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I thought it was because all the good money is going to private military contractors to feed money to corporate friends....

    158. Re: well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep - the military has no need to stabilize the country they invade... That's why the US left Afghanistan in 2005, right? Doesn't seem much like a win to me if they end up worse than before and attack again. But those saying 'we aren't responsible' probably welcome the death and destruction more than peace.

    159. Re:well i'm reassured! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Last war the US military won was WW2 if I recount correctly.

      I believe there was Granada.

      Desert Storm (1) and the actions in Bosnia achieved their objectives. But these were limited conflicts that had end points defined well in advance (and in the case of Bosnia, had the backing of the entire European continent) unlike the current quagmires the US has got itself into. Kind of like Sun Tzu said, a victorious general wins first and then goes to war, a defeated general goes to war first and then tries to win. Afghanistan and and Iraq 2: Iraq Harder were not planned very well and had nebulous objectives, basically they went to war and then tried to win.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    160. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Federal government involvement in health care, broadly speaking, is limited to the following five areas:...

      You forgot the most important role of the federal government in health care, namely creating artificial long term business for the legal profession. It's not an accident that the Obama Health Care law is over 2000 pages long. The public (or some members of it) thought they were getting a health care law, but instead the legal profession was getting a subsidy in disguise. That kind of thing happens a lot.

      In a culture that cared about ethics issues, having legal professionals hold the majority of senior public offices, and having the Bar Associations be the most powerful lobby in the country, might be a matter of concern. For some reason this slides under most people's radar, or perhaps people are gullible enough to believe in the concept of getting something for nothing.

      The concept that "the government that governs best, governs least" is a statement about legal ethics. If there is a legitimate role for the federal government to play in the health care system, presumably they could have accomplished what was needed in 30 pages or less, clearly written, and readily understandable by any educated adult.

    161. Re:well i'm reassured! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      A recent article shows that the Pentagon is reconsidering uniform requirements to permit beards and turbans for Muslims. Now consider that beards have been outlawed by our military for decades, based on "discipline" considerations. No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform. Suddenly - we are courting Muslims, so out of the goodness of our hearts, we are going to allow them to wear beards and turbans.

      Hey dumbfuck! It isn't boogyman muslims, it is sikhs. Turbans have no religious significance to muslims.

      Also, "decades" is technically correct, but only barely so - it was 1986 that beards were banned. Given the two centuries of beards being permitted in uniform before that, those deacdes are hardly a big deal.

      Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    162. Re:well i'm reassured! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I'm calling BS on this. It sounds like it comes from a source that wants it to be true. At any rate, while I've heard it numerous times, I've seen no compelling evidence that it's true.

      I'm willing to believe it. it isn't something people just talk about with anyone. Roughly two-thirds of all the women who have been close enough to trust me with private details like that has told me they have experienced at least one sexual assault and they have all been middle and upper-class. I'm sure that women who live in poverty have it even worse.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    163. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure the Federal government is *involved*, but *how* it is involved surely makes a difference. The Federal Government actually *runs* security at airports. It does not run non-military health care facilities. It doesn't even provide insurance except to its employees and their families and the poor. It's actual participation in health care and health care decisions is quite limited.

      The Federal government involvement in health care, broadly speaking, is limited to the following five areas:

      (1) Mandates individual coverage for US residents.
      (2) Sets minimal standards for what must be covered to meet the mandate.
      (3) Subsidizes low income insurance premiums
      (4) Provides free alternative insurance for households making less than 133% of the poverty line *in participating states*.
      (5) Provides a health care "exchange" on which consumers can shop for insurance *in states that decline to provide this service to their citizens*.

      That's it. Obamacare is a private sector based health care scheme -- essentially the same scheme, in fact, developed by the conservative Heritage Foundation for Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole in 1996. There is no way to ensure the bulk of Americans have routine health care with *less* federal involvement than what is outlined above.

      (1) Forces individuals to buy a product they may not want
      (2) Forces the prices of that product to be arbitrarily higher than it needs to be. Also creates artificial demand for some products, which increases demand, and since supply may not necessarily increase, also increases the costs. Since the cost always gets passed on to the public in some way, this leads to even higher prices or more taxes
      (3) Another way to increase demand and eventually prices
      (4) An incentive for people who earn near that line to never try and earn more money since every extra dollar they earn will not mean a dollar of extra spending money.
      (5) This may have been the start to the only useful part of the law.

      The heath care problem could have been solved much easier. 1) forbid it from being a job benefit and force everyone into individual markets like car insurance, 2) allow insurance premiums to be completely tax deductible, and 3) provide some assistance through subsidies.

    164. Re:well i'm reassured! by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Plus there's the bit where if your tires are worn, you hydroplane a lot more easily. Or if you have the wrong kind of tires. It may not be the road's fault at all in this one (two) poster's analogy.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    165. Re:well i'm reassured! by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      $17trillion dollar debt that we are burdening our children with

      So you don't mind if we raise taxes on the 1%, right? :)

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    166. Re:well i'm reassured! by godefroi · · Score: 1

      That (4) is a much bigger influence than you imply. What Medicare and Medicaid cover and do not cover, at what levels and under what conditions they cover things have an enormous impact on the healthcare of the rest of us.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    167. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been a few places around the world, Germany's roads aren't that much better, the autobahns are about the level of California freeways. Signposting in Europe ranges from like the US (Germany) to almost sufficient (Italy). Where the Germans come out ahead is maintenance, they actually maintain their roads. For well designed highways the most recent ones in Australia and NZ come out on top. They benefit from having been built or substantially improved in the past 20 years. Guardrails are a second-best solution for collision prevention. The best solution is a grass median with a wire rope barrier in the middle. This absorbs the energy of out of control vehicles without throwing them back into traffic and can handle anything up to a fully laden semi.

      For speed limits, 55 is slow for dual carriageways. I don't know any other country with a limit that low. Most are 60 or 70 for highways with some of the European nations higher. Above 70 driver training becomes rapidly more important but the US could surely handle increasing the speed limit up to that. Some highways that see heavy commuter traffic would be best with variable speed limits to reduce waves. Drop the limit to from 70 to 50 during peak traffic like the London motorways.

    168. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lice, early industrial English notions of appropriate personal grooming, social order of the enlisted and officer classes, field hygeine when crawling through mud and gore. Of these only the first and last make sense and both are of much less significance today than a century ago.

    169. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really on topic, but beards do not allow you to get a good seal on a gas mask.

    170. Re:well i'm reassured! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a sad little man with no soul.

    171. Re:well i'm reassured! by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I have done 170 miles per hour on certain stretches of road. I think arbitrarily low speed limits are an unnecessary evil. Yes, there are places where speeds should be limited. I have actually seen places where I thought the limits were too high (35 in a business/industrial area where lots of trucks were parked next to entrances to said businesses). There are stretches of highway in Arizona where you can see the road ahead for 20 miles or more and it will be utterly empty. Why should the speed limit be 65mph there?

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    172. Re:well i'm reassured! by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      Actually I was wrong, anyway. The washington post article doesn't only mention sikhs, it does mention muslims.

    173. Re:well i'm reassured! by acaila_edhel · · Score: 1

      no...i don't believe so.

      the US government being involved in health care is a very new thing. it can be argued that the TSA was perhaps the largest new program that the US government created before the health care thing. that links the two in a very powerful and factual way.

      the US government has been using the military for hundreds of years, and the politics of military use go back thousands.

      Medicare was instituted in '66. It can be from 40% to 60% of hospital inpatient volume. Tell me again how the government is new to healthcare. It has the big stick and has for quite some time.

    174. Re:well i'm reassured! by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      wrong.

      i think the US government is incredible at building roads, and it's military seems rather well managed.

      also, library's kick ass.

      The Bureau of Standards is pretty good, too.
      But then, those are things it is -supposed- to do.

    175. Re:well i'm reassured! by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      So... this makes California not a Republic? Then who's the khalif of Calif?

  2. and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

    It's that simple.

    We hold the purse strings AND the votes. Either one alone is enough to eliminate the TSA. But we have said, en-mass, that the TSA is acceptable in our society. So it will continue.

    1. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not necessarily true. There are numerous fundamental phenomena which subvert the notion of democratic rule as its commonly understood, and that's excluding all the cynical drivel that people toss around.

      Here's one of the most well known of such phenomena: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow's_impossibility_theorem

    2. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the whole country stopped any non-essential travel for 3 months... and made it clear why... and that the travel would not start again until the TSA was gone - not changed, not lip service given to "improvements" and "hearing the public voice", but actually GONE - the TSA would be eliminated within a month.

      The TSA exists because it is tolerated by the public.

    3. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      BS. What government program has ever ended?

    4. Re:and the TSA exists because... by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2

      I don't think you can say I hold the purse strings when my taxes are withheld before I even get my paycheck.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    5. Re:and the TSA exists because... by BradMajors · · Score: 1

      Welfare for those for have been on it for five years was terminated in 1996.

    6. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hold the purse strings over the airlines. If everyone stopped flying for a while, and let them know why, the TSA would disappear before the airlines all went bust.

    7. Re:and the TSA exists because... by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      Claim 500 deductions. Withholding is a thing because most people find it a convenience- the majority of people have poor planning abilities and wouldn't be able to pay the bill in April. But you can just claim an insane number of deductions and have basically 0 withholding. You'll just need to write a big check each April.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    8. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's must simpler than that.

      You just have to stop flying. Yeah, yeah, some people HAVE to, but a huge part of it is discretionary. Vacations, places you could drive to, etc.

      When the revenue stream dries up, and people make it clear why they are not traveling by air any more, the airlines will go lean on the government.

      But it has to be enough people to hit them where it hurts: the pocketbook. And they're not even slightly afraid of that possibility, because Americans are sheep.

    9. Re:and the TSA exists because... by mydn · · Score: 2

      The Confederate States of America.

    10. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Nobody would need to do that. If everybody opted out of the scanners, the same effect would be achieved. However, you'd be shocked (or maybe not, given that your premise is 100% correct) at how many Americans think the TSA in its current form is good and necessary for safe air travel. Slashdot and the like might be a circlejerk of anti-TSA sentiment, but that's absolutely not public opinion - reinforced every day by the people that choose to put up with that shit.

      In the past, I opted out 100% of the time, for three reasons: 1. I don't trust the safety of the scanners, as the test data is not public; 2. I think the scanners are overly-intrusive; and 3. I WANT that TSA morale to stay low, to have employees bitching about the 1000th guy they had to feel up that day, while doing my part to slow down the line and hope that the delays in aggregate piss people off enough to all be sick of it.

      In my old age (read: parenthood), the TSA and I have struck a compromise with some help from CBP and CBSA - we joined NEXUS and now get Pre-Check almost 100% of the time. That, to me, is a fair compromise. It's almost pre-9/11, with the theatrics minimized, and all I really gave up was data the government already had on me and my family anyway - I mean that pessimistically in the sense that it was going to be collected with or without my knowledge, and also in the factual sense that my past employment with the government resulted in far more thorough investigations than anything CBP was going to do for a trusted traveler program.

      I can live with this arrangement if TSA is relegated to "hands on" screening of high risk (actual high risk) passengers and letting the rest of us get to where we're going. The pre-check program is a step in the right direction, but I'd also argue that my existing tax dollars should cover it and people shouldn't have to pay to enroll. For something like NEXUS that's cross-border, yeah I think the $50 I paid is reasonable, but for pure domestic it needs to be part of TSA's existing budget. /incoherentrant

    11. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And hit with an under payment penalty - speaking of poor financial planning.

    12. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the problem. What do you consider non-essential? I'm thinking that a majority of people flying commercially need to do so, either because their job dictates that they be there quickly (as in, not enough time to drive across country), or they need to travel internationally and a boat is out of the question in today's world.

      As much as it would be great to boycott the industry, it just isn't feasible for those that do most of the traveling. Personally, I've never flown (commercially, anyways) and never intend to, exactly because of the bullshit hurdles, but I'm also not in a position where it matters at all.

    13. Re:and the TSA exists because... by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      so you want me to quit my job for 3 months? I already scaled back flying as much as possible, riding my harley for any trip under 400 miles (regardless the time of year, or the weather). Yes, I could get another job...guess what though - someone else would take my place, and still be flying.

    14. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've already done that, years ago. I have not flown in a plane since 2005, and I won't, until the TSA is gone.

    15. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Mr0bvious · · Score: 2

      "non-essential travel for 3 months"

      I think that flying for your work/job qualifies as essential.

      --
      Never happened. True story.
    16. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I always opt out. Midway in Chicago the TSA agent got really really mad at me, of course there was an hour line for the checkpoints. Everywhere else they didn't seem to care. I keep threatening to shoot my black powder pistol just before going to the airport one day, see if their residue checker actually works (I would think black powder would be the first thing they check for).

    17. Re: and the TSA exists because... by bmxeroh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let me know how that works for you. Protip: your tax payments aren't due in April, they're due the day you get paid. For practical reasons, they let you pay them quarterly if they're not withheld by your employer, buts rest assured you'll have penalties to pay if you wait until April.

      Extra protip: Don't take tax advice from someone on Slashdot.

      --
      Central Ohio Home Theater Installation - The Theater People
    18. Re:and the TSA exists because... by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      It's must simpler than that.

      You just have to stop flying. Yeah, yeah, some people HAVE to, but a huge part of it is discretionary. Vacations, places you could drive to, etc.

      When the revenue stream dries up, and people make it clear why they are not traveling by air any more, the airlines will go lean on the government.

      But it has to be enough people to hit them where it hurts: the pocketbook. And they're not even slightly afraid of that possibility, because Americans are sheep.

      More than that start taking the train as amtrack has been adamant in their refusal to allow the TSA to harass their customers

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    19. Re:and the TSA exists because... by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Informative

      BS. What government program has ever ended?

      Mobilization for the Civil War
      Reconstruction in the South after the Civil War
      Mobilization for WW1
      Prohibition
      Federal poisoning of alcohol
      CCC - Civilian Conservation Corps
      CWA - Civil Works Administration
      FSA - Federal Security Agency
      PWA - Public Works Administration
      WPA - Works Progress Administration
      Mobilization for WW2
      The Marshall Plan
      Mobilization for Korea
      The draft
      Mobilization for Desert Storm
      Cash for clunkers

      There are more.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    20. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The draft

      Really? When did that happen? Because I seem to remember having to fill out a nice little card when I was of a certain age.

      As for the majority of what you've listed, you're grasping at straws. Military conflicts and Federal bullshit are not even remotely comparable.

    21. Re:and the TSA exists because... by trout007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Traveling is stressful. If you opt out you get a free message. What's not to like?

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    22. Re:and the TSA exists because... by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That, to me, is a fair compromise.

      There can be no compromise; the TSA must be destroyed.

    23. Re:and the TSA exists because... by spasm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I always opt out. And usually loudly announce it's because I'm a medical researcher and I don't think they're safe (I *am* a public health researcher; and I have no idea if they're safe - which is kind of the problem). Which sometimes results in one or two others in the line behind me suddenly opting out, much to the disgust of the TSA folks. Although I'm always polite to the TSA people themselves - like Jason Harrington, 90% of them are just there because they needed a job and don't have many other options.

    24. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

      It's that simple.

      We hold the purse strings AND the votes. Either one alone is enough to eliminate the TSA. But we have said, en-mass, that the TSA is acceptable in our society. So it will continue.

      wrong, WRONG, WRONG!. there are good reasons that there is a 91% incumbency rate. one reason is unfettered gerrymandering which completely subverts democracy.

      democracy is dead

      Senator Tom Coburn described the situation well when he said, "In several election cycles in recent history, more incumbents died in office than lost reelection bids."

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    25. Re: and the TSA exists because... by fplatten · · Score: 1

      Bad advice. If you don't have enough tax withheld and owe more than $1000 when you file your taxes, you have to pay a penalty with interest on the amount.

    26. Re:and the TSA exists because... by uncqual · · Score: 2

      And you're also helping reduce unemployment. If everyone opted out, we would need more TSA agents. True grassroots stimulus!

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    27. Re:and the TSA exists because... by dead_user · · Score: 1

      The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

      It's worse than that. It exists because those in power know it is a powerful tool to exert control over those without. It is a sickening propaganda tool much like the duck and cover drills during the Cuban missile crisis. If someone in Cuba had launched a nuke at Miami, hiding under your desk would not have helped. It DID make the public feel like there was something they could do to mitigate their personal damage. The TSA is there to make us feel like something is being done about airline security. It's just a bonus that campaign contributors get paid billions to put on the show. Sad.

    28. Re:and the TSA exists because... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can live with this arrangement if TSA is relegated to "hands on" screening of high risk (actual high risk) passengers and letting the rest of us get to where we're going. The pre-check program is a step in the right direction,

      I'm pretty sure this is exactly the response the government is banking on.

      "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal unless a classified government algorithm determines otherwise"

      From a security perspective the security of a system is only as good as its weakest link and the feedback channel afforded to potential adversaries in obtaining pre-check status is such an enormously ridiculous concept I find it hard to believe anyone who thinks groping + irradiation is necessary for security would have any difficulty with a conclusion that TSA is grossly negligent for implementation of pre-check.

    29. Re:and the TSA exists because... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

      It's that simple.

      We hold the purse strings AND the votes. Either one alone is enough to eliminate the TSA. But we have said, en-mass, that the TSA is acceptable in our society. So it will continue.

      Brave words from an anonymous coward!

      Please tell me who I can vote for to eliminate the TSA?

    30. Re:and the TSA exists because... by akgooseman · · Score: 1

      The draft ended. The requirement for 18 year old men to register for a draft that might exist in the future did not end.

    31. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Libertarian001 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      You do realize that you proved *his* point, not yours, right? Being able to name a dozen programs that ended, out of THOUSANDS that were created, does not help your cause. Congratulations on you Pyrrhic victory.

    32. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      so you want me to quit my job for 3 months?

      I'm guessing your job does not involve reading comprehension.

    33. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So instead of making things harder for tsa to infringe on your privacy, you chose to explicitly allow them to collect even more info about you.

    34. Re:and the TSA exists because... by bob_jenkins · · Score: 1

      Here's a table of how much people in the US actually have flown, by year: http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_40.html

      The upshot is there was a slight dip in 2001-2002, but then it kept climbing. Until 2008, when it dropped slightly again and stayed dropped. This is easier to explain by price than by TSA.

    35. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain gerrymandering on the Senate and Presidental elections.

      If democracy is dead from gerrymandering, it should be easy for you to explain that. I think you just don't know what you are talking about, or are repeating talking points you don't understand and hope no one calls you on it.

    36. Re:and the TSA exists because... by dbIII · · Score: 3, Funny

      True grassroots stimulus!

      Now that's a clever euphemism for a pat down.

    37. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we joined NEXUS and now get Pre-Check almost 100% of the time.

      So there's still a chance of your kids getting molested? Darn, I was telling my kids about this and they were hopeful we'd start flying again.

    38. Re:and the TSA exists because... by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      You do know that TSA screw-ups that included forcing mothers to drink their own breast milk and patting down children began in the previous administration, right?

      And you know the current president didn't make a rule that mothers had to drink breast milk, don't you?

      Just like you make the absurd claim that liberals view everything through the lens of race, you show your own biases quite clearly.

    39. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Boltronics · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used to work with a guy who had to get scanned by an airport residue scanner, on the same day that he had been using competitive firearms all morning in practice. He was happy to openly admit it to them (this was in Australia), but the scanner didn't pick up anything at all.

      --
      It's GNU/Linux dammit!
    40. Re:and the TSA exists because... by tftp · · Score: 2

      That's another way to formulate the Broken Window Fallacy. In this case, though, an immaterial object (your time) is destroyed instead of a material one (glass.)

    41. Re: and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taxes withheld by your employer are held in escrow until the quarterly payment date rolls around. Tax payment float is like a huge part of ADP's revenue, and no doubt substantially contributes to the bottom line income of financial departments at large corporations that manage their own payroll.

      You're clearly not a pro. I'm not a tax pro, either, but I was once a software engineer at ADP.

      If you want to play like the big guys, but don't want to be self-employed, just convince your HR department to put you down for like a ton of dependents. Then make quarterly payments to the IRS on your own. Or better yet, don't make quarterly payments and just wait for the IRS to complain. In the time it takes them to complain (3 years, or maybe never) you can make more money in the market than the penalties will cost you. Just make sure you pay the appropriate amount at the end of the year.

    42. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Zynder · · Score: 1

      Since when did We The People start holding the purse strings? Did you sleep through the whole 99% movement?

    43. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Zynder · · Score: 0

      get a free message

      HAHA! An awesome Freudian slip. I'd imagine the message you'll get is along the lines of "You gonna get raped." After that is where the massage comes in ;)

    44. Re: and the TSA exists because... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      I am not an accountant, but, you can probably get away with (not pay penalties) having zero deductions until just before the end of the year, as long as you have a year's worth of taxes deducted from your last few paychecks (however many it takes). Is this legal, or even a good plan? I have idea!

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    45. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The scanners used in Australian airports target nitrate-based explosives only, not the phosphate-based residues which would result from firearm usage.

    46. Re:and the TSA exists because... by pjbgravely · · Score: 2

      get a free message

      HAHA! An awesome Freudian slip. I'd imagine the message you'll get is along the lines of "You gonna get raped." After that is where the massage comes in ;)

      Maybe he just likes the Pink Panther movies.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    47. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prohibition merely took a break for five years before it started up again with the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act.

    48. Re:and the TSA exists because... by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      The train sucks. In the US it's slow and expensive. I wanted to do it for fun and all the pricing I looked up wasn't worth it.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    49. Re:and the TSA exists because... by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 1

      You probably could have voted for Gary Johnson last presidential election. (If you were in Michigan, he was a write-in candidate, not on the ballot. If you were in Oklahoma, you couldn't vote for him at all. In the other 48 states, he was on the ballot.)

      He has said:

      Instead of trying to fix or adjust or moderate TSA airport screening procedures to make them less abusive or slightly more tolerable, I say it is time to turn airport screening and security over to those who should be doing it in the first place: the airlines.

      On one hand, that's not exactly the same as calling for complete abolition of the TSA, merely removing them from "airport screening and security" -- it leaves unstated what other TSA missions (new or extant) he might support. On the other hand, it's a lot more like abolishing the TSA than either the R or D candidates proposed... (I haven't followed his campaign closely; maybe he made a less ambiguous statement at some point.)

      It's not clear to me that the president has the power to abolish the TSA without congressional involvement, but AFAICS there's nothing stopping him from downsizing it to one guy who sits in an office and eats Skittles all day and updates the terror threat level to the color he just ate.

      So in some sense, I believe GP is correct that we tolerate it. If enough Americans were angry enough about the TSA that they were willing to put up with any of Gary Johnson's positions they don't like, and let go of the differences between the Republican and Democrat candidates that make them fight for the less-bad instead of a vote "wasted" on a third party candidate, they could all have voted for Gary Johnson, and the TSA might well be effectively neutralized by now. (Or yes, maybe Gary Johnson would have turned out to be corrupted by power, just like every other candidate who makes good-sounding promises in his campaign, and reneges on them as soon as he's in office.)

      But of course there's a long way between "acceptable" and "so unacceptable I'll put it ahead of all other issues combined", so his equivalence of "Americans tolerate [the TSA]" with "we have said ... the TSA is acceptable" is pretty bogus.

    50. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Bartles · · Score: 2

      As the head of the executive branch he is ultimately responsible for enforcing it. He could stop it with a phone call. I did not say a liberals view everything through the lens of race; i would never disparage liberals in such a demeaning fashion. You are making the mistake of assuming those on the left are actually liberal.

    51. Re: and the TSA exists because... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: It's my parents that are the accountants, not me. I recommend speaking to an actual CPA before embarking on any such plot as this.

      You must be within a certain percent or dollar amount of your final taxes by Dec 31st or you owe penalties for 'insufficient withholding'. I came within a couple hundred due to a pay snafu where my employer didn't take any withholding for several months after I returned from some overseas work*. Just to be sure I sent the IRS a check for a couple hundred in December.

      *My salary wasn't taxable while I was overseas.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    52. Re:and the TSA exists because... by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      I haven't flown since the scanners were installed. We're planning a road trip family vacation.

    53. Re:and the TSA exists because... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the broken window fallacy fall apart when you do something that will cost you of your own free will? I mean getting felt up by a TSA agent is about as much of a waste of time as going to the movies in recent years (more or less). Is going to the movies a Broken Window Fallacy too?

      I'm betting the fallacy requires someone else acting in order to cost you instead of you doing it yourself. Because then it isn't entertainment unless you hire them to break the windows- but that would be you doing it yourself too.

    54. Re: and the TSA exists because... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I mean to write: "I have no idea".

      Yeah, I haven't tried this approach and I use an accountant to prepare my taxes. Risking the wrath of the IRS isn't a good idea.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    55. Re:and the TSA exists because... by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Didn't know that. Thanks, I'll have to look into that.

    56. Re:and the TSA exists because... by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      You just have to stop flying. Yeah, yeah, some people HAVE to, but a huge part of it is discretionary. Vacations, places you could drive to, etc.

      I love this asshole. Yes, please give up one of the few things left to Americans; their pitifully short number of vacation days. Instead, stay at home. Like we don't work hard enough already. Wanna know what most people fly to? Not to have fun, but to go see family. They do it to go see the people they love. That's what Americans do on their rare time off. And this asshole says "Americans are sheep".

      Yeah. Sure. Okay. Maybe they're just working themselves to death trying to live paycheck to paycheck because 85 people in the world control more wealth than the next 3.5 billion: And guess where over half of those 85 people live? Go on, guess.

      You don't blame the people at the bottom for the excesses of those at the top; That's called being a douchebag. Put the blame right where it belongs: At the top.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    57. Re:and the TSA exists because... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Informative

      You need a certain amount of your expected tax bill on account with the government else they can fine you. I think it amounts to 90% of your current year's tax bill or 100% of the previous year's bill. There are some exceptions but they are limited. The fine is something like a percentage of the underpaid amount or something like that.

      There is also a $500 penalty if you knowingly do as you suggest and alter your W-4 to reduce the amount of withholding with no reasonable basis for doing so. Also, you can be charged with a crime for supplying false or fraudulent information on your Form W-4 or failing to offer information that could increase your withholding that can cost you $1000 and/or 1 year in prison.

      So while, yes, in theory, you can alter your deductions to effectively have no withholding, it can also cost you a lot more in the end if you do so.

    58. Re:and the TSA exists because... by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      You think your vote matters?

    59. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... will cost you of your own free will ...

      No. I'm sure normal people don't want their windows broken. So the broken window fallacy is about falsely thinking all expenses create employment and growth for someone else.

    60. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Claim 500 deductions. Withholding is a thing because most people find it a convenience- the majority of people have poor planning abilities and wouldn't be able to pay the bill in April. But you can just claim an insane number of deductions and have basically 0 withholding. You'll just need to write a big check each April.

      And pay a penalty for under-withholding and not making at least quarterly estimated payments; then you'll be subject to backup withholding which essentially enjoins your brokerage or employer from ever accepting a new W-4 from you and subjects you to a "0-single" withholding rate until the IRS writes them and says its OK for you to change it.

      Ask me how I know, though I have gotten used to monstrous tax return checks, even if they are an interest free loan to the government.

    61. Re: and the TSA exists because... by slew · · Score: 1

      I am not an accountant, but, you can probably get away with (not pay penalties) having zero deductions until just before the end of the year, as long as you have a year's worth of taxes deducted from your last few paychecks (however many it takes).

      Is this legal, or even a good plan? I have idea!

      You absolutely have no idea.
      1. Employers must report withholding at least quarterly (or monthly if they are large reporters). These amounts are subject reviewed by the IRS If the IRS notices you are claiming incorrect deductions they will request your W4 from your employer and will likely send you and your employer a "lock-in" letter that will set your deductions (basically legally require your employer to override your W4) if they feel you aren't paying enough as you go. There are also significant penalties and backup withholding requirements for filing false information on your W4.
      2. Quarterly estimated payments must be made in 4 equal amounts to avoid penalties unless you can show that your income was equivalently uneven during the year.
      3. Do not attempt to cheat the IRS, you aren't any more clever than the wackos that they have previously caught.

    62. Re:and the TSA exists because... by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      From purely moralistic ethics and human rights point of view; Is it worth not being dehumanized and having your right abused?
      From comfort perspective you also have some space to walk around and slightly more leg room.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    63. Re:and the TSA exists because... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      lol.. I guess I missed the important part about the fallacy. It wasn't in creating unnecessary expenses, it is in thinking that doing so is somehow going to make things better and create employment and growth.

      I was concentrating on the concept of you breaking the your own windows being your own cost just as if you decided to watch a movie or eat at an expensive restaurant instead of at home for less. The later does create employment and growth just as replacing your old windows with newer efficient ones or more stylish ones would (which is why normal people might break their own windows).

    64. Re:and the TSA exists because... by RR · · Score: 1

      The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

      It's that simple.

      We hold the purse strings AND the votes.

      No. The TSA exists because we don't know whom we can shoot to make it go away.

      Actually, I think the real reason the TSA exists is so the military-industrial complex segment of society could claim the power to detain and harass ordinary Americans, and train the people into thinking that it's right and proper.

      We hold the purse strings? No, that's Congress. We hold the votes? I voted against everybody who is in power. I hold myself blameless for this mess.

      --
      Have a nice time.
    65. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's nothing. Flying through San Diego, I almost shit my pants when I realized I had a container of black powder in my backpack. They stopped me and searched my bag (later learned it was because of the electric razor) and they did one of those bomb swipes with the little pads. They cleared me and I walked on through...

    66. Re:and the TSA exists because... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      You just have to stop flying. Yeah, yeah, some people HAVE to, but a huge part of it is discretionary. Vacations, places you could drive to, etc.

      There is actually an alternative to commercial flight - general aviation. General aviation is fairly big - it's basically all non-scheduled flight. And no, you don't have to be a super-rich CEO - because you'll probably be flying in a single engine prop plane, not a small business jet.

      A lot of places are closer to a general aviation airport than the commercial airport (in fact, many people probably don't realize that there's an airport close by), and for many short flights, it's quicker to preflight and hop on the plane than to go to the airport, get through security, etc. Most security is basically because the people *know* you and you're carrying people you trust.

      No TSA, no lineups. Just go to the counter, say hello, plan your flight while they pull your plane from the hangar, and off you go.

      And if you decide you need to change your plans, well, no customer service - you just call Flight Service, notify them, and then do it. (This includes bathroom stops).

    67. Re: and the TSA exists because... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Is this legal, or even a good plan? I have idea!

      You absolutely have no idea.

      Yeah, I accidentally missed the word "no" in my posting. I genuinely meant to type "I have no idea"

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    68. Re:and the TSA exists because... by uncqual · · Score: 2

      Whoosh. (I didn't realize on /. I needed to use the HTML 99 tag <humor>. I will be more careful in the future.)

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    69. Re:and the TSA exists because... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I mean getting felt up by a TSA agent is about as much of a waste of time as going to the movies in recent years

      Another "all hail the King" post by sumdumass!
      So getting felt up by security is no worse than going to the movies is it? Sorry, but this peasant does not think rulers should get unquestioned obedience when that means letting poorly screened rent-a-cops touch our children's genitals.

    70. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's start with the part where you convince everyone to do that.

      Then get back to us with a real idea.

    71. Re:and the TSA exists because... by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Why don't you troll elsewhere. You know damn well what I meant and completely misrepresented it in order to pursuit some sick agenda you have that involves largely your own imagination.

    72. Re:and the TSA exists because... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Really? Please be a bit clearer about what you meant then.

    73. Re:and the TSA exists because... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I opt out of the body scanners when I fly alone.

      I opted out once when I flew with my wife and kids. The guy that patted me down informed me that they always waved through families with young kids. I haven't been patted down since.

      I guess terrorists don't fly with young kids. And young kids can't be trained to carry bomb materials.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    74. Re:and the TSA exists because... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      The point of the broken window fallacy is that it assumes that causing work to be done will not cause other work to go undone and it therefore ignores opportunity cost. The glass maker in the story will be employed making the glass to replace the window, which increases economic activity on the assumption that the glass blower would otherwise have had no work to do. The point of the story is to highlight the fact that this assumption is usually untrue. It is very often misused, however.

      In particular, it does not apply when you're talking about subsidies / investment that is required to produce a demand that will cause economies of scale to lower prices to the degree that would increase real demand. If, rather than one window being broken, a few thousand were, then that might cause the glazier in the story to invest in machinery to produce glass in high volumes. Once all of the windows have been replaced, the glazier is still able to produce glass at significant volumes and lower costs, and so reduces his prices to stimulate demand. This then triggers the development of industries that depend on the cheap and ready availability of glass.

      That's stretching the story a little bit, because the production of glass is very well understood and there are few changes in the process that are more than small incremental improvements. It is very different in a comparatively new field, for example the production of solar cells, where new processes regularly produce 50% better (more efficient, cheaper, etc.) technology. It would be true of microprocessors, if not for the fact that this market has already moved on to the stage where there is sufficient demand to drive investment without needing external priming.

      The motivation is largely irrelevant. The broken window fallacy would apply to the TSA if the TSA is hiring people who would otherwise be employed doing something productive. It is, of course, not the only way in which the TSA costs the economy. On my last trip to the US, I spent a total of around two hours in queues for security theatre, which could have been time spent in the airport lounge working. The same is true of most business travellers.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    75. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but "Hey, go 'head, if it wasn't for flying I wouldn't have any kind of sex life" is NOT what you want to tell the TSA goon before the pat down. They don't like that.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    76. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the past, I opted out 100% of the time

      So what changed?

      we joined NEXUS and now get Pre-Check almost 100% of the time.

      Ahhh, convenience. See, you would protest as you had done in the past, but that's just just an inconvenience - especially if you've got to travel with family with them not understanding why you've got to be 'that guy' or even starting the cry-a-thon.

      And not only that...

      For something like NEXUS that's cross-border, yeah I think the $50 I paid is reasonable,

      ...but you paid them for the privilege.

      Congratulations, you've just helped the TSA's programs more than you ever hurt them in the past.

    77. Re: and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May I ask why your salary was not taxable ? I am assuming you mean - US taxable, but I still kind of question that.
      I work overseas too and my CPA tells me it is taxable and even potentially taxable to the country I am in.

    78. Re:and the TSA exists because... by trout007 · · Score: 1

      Ouch! I thought your said your dog doesn't bite?

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    79. Re:and the TSA exists because... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      We hold the purse strings AND the votes. Either one alone is enough to eliminate the TSA. But we have said, en-mass, that the TSA is acceptable in our society. So it will continue.

      wrong, WRONG, WRONG!. there are good reasons that there is a 91% incumbency rate. one reason is unfettered gerrymandering which completely subverts democracy.

      There are many reasons why TSA will not be reformed. High incumbancy rate is one of them. But your citation of gerrymandering as a major problem for TSA reform is ridiculous here.

      Yes, gerrymandering might be relevant to TSA issues, if one of the major parties were actually against the TSA. That's simply not true. So, even if we swapped parties to put all Democrats or all Republicans in federal office, there's no proof that they would end the TSA at all. Gerrymandering may protect party interests, but your point is moot in the case of the TSA.

      Also, I don't know what your gerrymandering point has to do with the Senate or Presidency. Both of those have to approve of changes in government too, and they approved of the TSA without gerrymandering....

      democracy is dead

      Yes, spend some time reading your own link:

      Gallup found that 46 percent of respondents said they approved of "the way the representative from your congressional district is handling his or her job" while 41 percent disapproved. That's in spite of the fact that overall Congressional approval was at just 16 percent in the same survey and hasn't been higher than 24 percent since the start of 2011.

      In other words, "Congress sucks, but my guy's an okay dude!"

      That's why there's a high incumbency rate. Gerrymandering is much lower on the list of causes, and less relevant to TSA. You want reform? You need to get people to realize that their own representatives are PART of Congress, and they need to vote them out when Congress isn't working well.

    80. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      States with a population of 580,000 have the same number of Senators as states with a population of 38m.

      States with a population of 580,000 have 3 "electors" in the Electoral College, or 1 elector per ~200,000 people. States with a population of 38m have 55 "electors", or 1 elector per ~700,000 people.

      [Meanwhile DC, with a larger population than the Wyoming, and almost as large as Vermont and Alaska, gets zero reps in the House or Senate. While Puerto Rico doesn't even get Presidential electors, let alone Senators/Reps, even through it would be the 29th largest state by population.]

    81. Re:and the TSA exists because... by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      The TSA exists because Americans tolerate it.

      It's worse than that.

      "I hated it from the beginning. It was a job that had me patting down the crotches of children, the elderly and even infants as part of the post-9/11 airport security show. I confiscated jars of homemade apple butter on the pretense that they could pose threats to national security. I was even required to confiscate nail clippers from airline pilots—the implied logic being that pilots could use the nail clippers to hijack the very planes they were flying."

      Harrington was smart enough to recognise security theatre, along with the idiocy of confiscating pointy-things from pilots, and decent enough to feel disgust for violating children/elderly, yet he went along with those rules. "I was required". Bullshit. Unless his boss happened to be watching closely, he wasn't "required". At every point he had the discretionary power to confiscate weapons but say, "fuck it, I'm not taking clippers from pilots", to confiscate suspicious liquids but say, "this is clearly apple butter, not explosives", to search adults but say, "I don't need to examine children and old people".

      Harrington went along with the security theatre, not just as an audience member, but as a performer. Even after recognising it as theatre.

      You don't get to hide behind the "Sure it's wrong, but what can I, one man, do?" apathy defence when you're the fucker wearing the blue gloves!

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    82. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      There are many reasons why TSA will not be reformed. High incumbancy rate is one of them. But your citation of gerrymandering as a major problem for TSA reform is ridiculous here.

      my reply was to "We hold the purse strings AND the votes" which is then tied to officials doing nothing because they have job security in the extremely high incumbancy rate. you will never see two democrats or two republicans on the ballot.

      In other words, "Congress sucks, but my guy's an okay dude!"

      That's why there's a high incumbency rate.

      you dont get it, they reason they are saying they like the guy is BECAUSE of gerrymandering. the whole point is to get people who like you.

      You need to get people to realize that their own representatives are PART of Congress, and they need to vote them out when Congress isn't working well.

      no, you need political diversity so that you dont have an overwhelming amount of democrats only voting for democrats and republicans voting for republican. when there is no risk of not getting reelected, there is no motivation to do anything that could be considered controversial to some. some may not like the rep doing nothing but too many people are just going to vote for their party.

      you have no idea the damage that gerrymandering is doing.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    83. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I flew a few weeks ago and got to go through the "express" line where I did not have to take anything out of my pockets, I was able to keep my shoes, belt and jacket on, and my laptop could stay in my bag.

      I have also noticed TSA agents don't seem to care anymore which line you get in, I always avoid the rapiscan 2000 and go through the normal metal detector.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    84. Re: and the TSA exists because... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      You probably need to find a new CPA

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    85. Re:and the TSA exists because... by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Where did you get that? Both nitrocellulose (smokeless powder) and the primers used in modern firearms are "nitrate-based". Black powder uses potassium nitrate as an oxidizer.

      Furthermore, phosphate is a poor oxidizer and wouldn't be used as such in any firearms. How does this drivel get modded up?

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    86. Re:and the TSA exists because... by hey! · · Score: 1

      The Arrow Impossibility theorem only demonstrates that our notions of a "perfect" political system are broken. It does *not* mean its impossible to devise a system of government that is responsive to the desires of the majority.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    87. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Solandri · · Score: 2

      I tried to opt out the last three times I flew. Each time, the lines with the scanners were roped off and empty, and everyone went through the regular metal detectors. When I asked why, I was told the machines were down for maintenance.

      Maybe some of the local TSA supervisors aren't idiots. Even TFA says that the instructor tasked with teaching TSA agents how to use the scanners said, off the record, that "they're shit."

    88. Re: and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Potentially, but why would you want to? You'd effectively have no income for the bulk of the last calendar quarter, and the comparatively modest increase in take-home pay at the beginning of the year would not generate sufficient interest to compensate unless you had an unusually high return in the middle of the year.

      Just set your withholding at an amount slightly below your tax bill, so you owe between zero and a few hundred dollars in April. Most people don't have deduction variability so wide as to be unable to make that projection at the beginning of the year. You should know your ballpark tax burden. Divide by the number of paychecks you get in a year and pick a withholding number that approximates that amount.

    89. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Surely you jest? He DID do something. He wrote about what's really going on, and got his writing published on freakin' CNN.

      I think he's done far more than most people to combat the TSA.

    90. Re:and the TSA exists because... by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's reasonable to expect the president to stop every negative action taken by government workers everywhere with, as you say, a phone call. I'll send him a headset; he's not going to get much sleep.

      You did say that "the left" views everything through the lens of race, not liberals, that is true. But inveighing against an amorphous "left" and claiming they are not "liberal" is the same parlor trick I can use by claiming "the right" is not actually conservative. It's disingenuous.

    91. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all the moaning everybody does about the TSA, I have yet to hear of a viable alternative.

      Should we just dismantle all checkpoints like we had in the 1960's?

      Should we arm all passengers?

      Would just a few well armed guards on every flight do it?

      I do agree a lot of it is security theatre...the full body scanners were stupid...the whole liquid thing is also stupid...but I am guessing that a lot of that theatre works. Like it or not, there are plenty of psycho's out there that would love nothing better than to go out in a blaze of glory, and I am guessing that the security checks keep most of them off the planes.

    92. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, please give up one of the few things left to Americans

      Their liberties. Well, they don't have that anymore.

    93. Re:and the TSA exists because... by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      But of course there's a long way between "acceptable" and "so unacceptable I'll put it ahead of all other issues combined", so his equivalence of "Americans tolerate [the TSA]" with "we have said ... the TSA is acceptable" is pretty bogus.

      Yes.

      But if Americans don't make defending their rights their top priority, then they're just mindless trash.

    94. Re:and the TSA exists because... by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      to search adults but say, "I don't need to examine children and old people".

      He shouldn't be violating *anyone's* rights. Old people and children aren't more important. One would have to be immoral to work for the TSA to begin with, because it's a job that requires you violate people's rights.

    95. Re:and the TSA exists because... by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      For all the moaning everybody does about the TSA, I have yet to hear of a viable alternative.

      Here's a viable alternative: Eliminate the TSA and get government thugs out of airports. This has a few benefits; we wouldn't be violating people's fundamental liberties, we wouldn't be violating the constitution, and far less importantly, we'd save money.

      Should we just dismantle all checkpoints like we had in the 1960's?

      Yes. Government thugs should just get out of airports.

      and I am guessing that the security checks keep most of them off the planes.

      You guess without evidence, and in turn, support policies that involve the violation of people's fundamental liberties and the constitution. Even the latter without the former would make you unprincipled trash.

      Freedom is more important than security. Why do I even have to say that in a country that's supposed to be "the land of the free and the home of the brave"? You should understand this well already.

    96. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Libertarian001 · · Score: 1

      Yes, that was flamebait. Good god the mods around here are stupid.

    97. Re:and the TSA exists because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not my dog.

      Nice! (great movie)

  3. he was only following orders... by schlachter · · Score: 1

    don't want our gov officials of citizens to be on the bad side of that statement. TSA sucks.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  4. Taking Sense Away Blogger by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been reading that guy's blog since day one:

    http://takingsenseaway.wordpre...

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Taking Sense Away Blogger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck to him. Writing is *not* an easy career. There are far, far more aspiring novelists than there are successful novelists.

  5. The bird by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Glad to know the only two times I ever went through the scanners (I travel for work frequently) that maybe somebody did see me flipping the double bird. Even happier that the on last several dozen trips my wife and I live by the words 'opt out'. Several agents have commented to me readily while feeling me up and violating my privacy that what they were doing was completely useless. In one case I was told by an agent that he felt up the CEO of the company that makes the current machines, who refuses to use them for himself or his family.

    Time to get rid of the TSA, the only organization that can still get funding with a 0% success rate.

    1. Re:The bird by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Time to get rid of the TSA, the only organization that can still get funding with a 0% success rate.

      You must be new around government.

  6. Breach of secrecy by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

    Be careful Mr. Harrington. Gitmo isn't closed yet. You wouldn't want some guys in a van to stop by and take you on a "trip" would you?

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:Breach of secrecy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least he wouldn't have to spend hours waiting in lines at an airport.

  7. In All Fairness by deconfliction · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... confiscated jars of homemade apple butter on the pretense that they could pose threats to national security.

    In all fairness, if I got a job as a TSA agent, and my bosses told me that jars of homemade apple butter could be a threat, I for one would take their word for it. I might post on slashdot hoping some educted chemists could debunk the issue, but I wouldn't presume to know that apple butter didn't happen to be a great masking material for some other explosive material.

    1. Re:In All Fairness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. That's true. But the same thing could be said about anything. It's irrational at best.

      Now, I'm not trying to be a dick to you, but lets consider some other completely asinine things just for the fun of it. Water could possibly be highly toxic if you drink enough of it. We're not scientists, so we can't really counter that argument. Furthermore, there's been several cases of people dieing as a direct result of drinking too much water, and over 99% of drowning victims die while exposed to large amounts of water. Would you stop drinking water after hearing this argument? No, of course not. Critical thinking needs to be applied to both cases, not just selectively because of the very remote possibility of terrorism.

    2. Re:In All Fairness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately they're also telling you that fatass x-ray generator they want you to stand next to is totally safe.

    3. Re:In All Fairness by deconfliction · · Score: 1

      that was a pretty harsh response considering I did work in " I might post on slashdot hoping some educted chemists could debunk the issue" as about a third of my comment. Why don't you more constructively work with me on that third, rather than AC ripping me for the other 2/3 as if I hadn't had the qualifier in their.

    4. Re: In All Fairness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course you would. after all you are a gov't worker. nobody expects you to think for youself. what we expect is that you'll be too busy looting the warehouse or our luggage to actually carry out "government regulation" whomever came up with gov't jobs as a welfare substitute got us. i would prefer you go back to your regular inner city low income social democrat lifestyle of theft and murder because statistically it's more pallatable.

    5. Re:In All Fairness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again, my goal wasn't to be an asshole. I was simply stating that the same argument that apple butter could be considered dangerous can be literally applied to anything. The burden lies on them to provide some evidence for their claim. Such a vague claim is nearly non-falsifiable, so without more information, there's nothing to debunk.

    6. Re:In All Fairness by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, if I got a job as a TSA agent

      You'd be immoral. How safe they make us (and I doubt they actually make us safer) is irrelevant; what matters is the fact that the job requires that you violate people's rights and the constitution, and that cannot be tolerated.

    7. Re:In All Fairness by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Indeed. "I was just following orders" is no excuse.

  8. Better ideas anyone? by LookIntoTheFuture · · Score: 2

    Wouldn't be easier to put a security guard on each flight and instruct them to shoot to kill? Bullet holes? How about special hatches in the floor so they could just drop the MFs from the plane? Projectile extremists destroying property and endangering people on the ground? Tasers. Give every adult on the plane a taser. Boom! Done! Sure, there will be a few injuries every year. But, it would be a much better experience (and perhaps a little fun) for everyone. You would really need to hang new signs though. Like: "Please, do not taze the aloof parents of crying babies"

    For the love of god, could we please try something else? The TSA is truly embarrassing.

    --
    Brave Sir Robin ran away. ("No!") Bravely ran away away. ("I didn't!")
    1. Re:Better ideas anyone? by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      uhh...a hole to the outside, suddenly depressurizing the plane while at 30k feet, would be a really, really bad thing. What we should "try" is metal detectors and dogs - you know, the stuff we were using /before/ all this, and which worked substantially better.

    2. Re:Better ideas anyone? by davidannis · · Score: 2

      You surely realize that all of his suggestions were sarcastic, don't you?

    3. Re:Better ideas anyone? by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      seemed like he was building to insanity. A guard on every flight is already being done, and isn't far-fetched. But sure, does get a bit crazy at the end ;)

    4. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Informative

      uhh...a hole to the outside, suddenly depressurizing the plane while at 30k feet, would be a really, really bad thing. What we should "try" is metal detectors and dogs - you know, the stuff we were using /before/ all this, and which worked substantially better.

      I could empty an AR-15 w/30 rounds from inside an airliner flying at 30K feet, reload, do it again, and still not depressurize the cabin to any serious extent as long as no windows were blown out. I serviced/repaired aircraft for a living. (note: this assumes one doesn't carefully aim to enlarge a single hole.) You'd need a hole at least a foot or more across to be in any immediate danger.

      An airliner is not a spaceship, and movies are not reality.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    5. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, a small hole would not be that bad and that is all you would get - a hole the size of the bullet.
      Of greater worry would be that a missed shot would hit someone else or the bullet would go completely through your intended target and hit somebody else.

      They do make pre-fragmented bullets that are unlikely to penetrate a person and hit somebody else, but then they might not penetrate your intended target either.

      Bullet holes in the side of the plane are only a concern because they would need to be repaired.

      Remember that they already have armed guards on some planes already.

    6. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      Do your understanding of pneumatics a favor: google "airplane outflow valve".

    7. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure? There's only 53 results, most of them worthless.

    8. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oh, and a related set of facts I thought I should mention, just for safety and the odd chance's sake.

      Discharging a firearm in an aircraft may not be likely to cause dangerous and immediate cabin depressurization, but there's still a ton of vital stuff that keeps you flying (and landing minus large fireball and crater!) that doesn't play well with getting shot up.

      It's a bad idea, period. Unless lives are at stake, don't do it.

      That being said, if you're on an aircraft and some surreal turn of events happens to cause you or someone else you have influence over to absolutely *have to* discharge a firearm while flying in an airliner, try to avoid lines of fire that intersect the wings/engines (and the fuel tanks they contain, although a small-caliber round is unlikely to cause a fire/explosion/sudden fuel loss), the cockpit area (obviously), directly aft through the tail (avionics/autopilot/comms/cabin air pressure pumps/etc) and down through the deck you're standing on (more avionics/flight control/comm/nav/etc, fuel tanks, and landing gear).

      Avoid the instinct to consider "down" (cabin deck) a safe default direction for discharging a firearm purposefully or accidentally in an aircraft cabin. If anything, "up" (cabin ceiling) would be preferable.

      Of course, avoid windows. Easy one to remember for most Slashdotters. :)

      Exact locations will vary by aircraft make/model/etc, but that's a pretty good general rule-of-thumb layout.

      Again, if there's any choice, do not discharge any firearm in an aircraft in flight. Too easy to fall down go BOO000OOM!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    9. Re:Better ideas anyone? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      OP is right. Airliner environmental control systems move literally tons of air.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    10. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Airliner environmental control systems move literally tons of air.

      Spot on.

      Airliner cabin seals are nowhere near 100% even when the airliner is paint-still-drying new. Cabin air pressurization systems and their pumps are designed with many times the capacity they would normally need. They are beasts. That's why even dozens of bullet holes wouldn't cause a dangerous cabin pressure problem.

      Most people would be shocked at how poor the cabin seals actually are on the aircraft they fly on, and how much cabin pressure depends on the pumps keeping up with cabin seal losses.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    11. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Informative

      I could empty an AR-15 w/30 rounds from inside an airliner flying at 30K feet, reload, do it again, and still not depressurize the cabin to any serious extent as long as no windows were blown out. I serviced/repaired aircraft for a living.

      I designed and coded the software for cabin pressurization systems used in commercial aircraft. BlueStrat is correct in all details, and if you know a little engineering you can easily convince yourself.

      The cabin pressurization valve is an inflatable balloon (of sorts) sitting in an 8" diameter hole, and there are two of them. The system will easily compensate for even a large number of bullet holes in the body - 1" holes are much smaller than the area the valve system has to work with.

      The pressure differential between the inside and outside can be at most 15 pounds per square inch(*). That means that a 1" hole would only present 15 lbs of force pressure on an object pressing against it, which can be easily overcome by a person. Bullet holes are much smaller than 1" diameter. Further away and the effect is negligible.

      A window being shot out would not suck out a passenger. From experience, when an 8" diameter hole (the pressurization valve) is suddenly uncovered, it doesn't pull very hard on people standing near it and the pull ends almost instantly. Force isn't present for any length of time, and since F=M*A and V = A*T, you end up with very little velocity.

      Sorry folks, Goldfinger doesn't get sucked across the cabin and forced through the blown-out window, and Pussy Galore doesn't have to pull the plane out of a tailspin.

      (*) To reduce stress on the airframe, the cabin is depressurized as the aircraft reaches cruising altitude.This reduces the maximum differential by about 1/3.

    12. Re:Better ideas anyone? by sjames · · Score: 1

      That has been well debunked. In fact it will make a loud noise for a few minutes while the pilot descends below 8000 feet. But he would have to descend and land at that point anyway due to the serious incident on the plane.

    13. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you say movies aren't reality, I call bullshit. Peoples opinions are shaped by movies. Laws are shaped by opinions. People are labeled as criminals or heros based on the prevailing plot lines of movies, TV shows, and news reports. To say that movies dont represent and indeed create reality is evidence of a seriously deranged mind.

      Think about it. When Turning was killed for being a homo, it was because the media reported homosexuality as being truly wicked. Today homos are heros. What has changed? The media has changed. The media creates reality. Anyone believing anything else is serverely delusional.

      Why do you think we have all the hysteria around air travel and around everything else we do. Why have we not built any nuclear reactors in however many years. It is because radiation and any nuclear energy source is instant death. The media reports it as such so it is true.

    14. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      When you say movies aren't reality, I call bullshit. Peoples opinions are shaped by movies. Laws are shaped by opinions. People are labeled as criminals or heros based on the prevailing plot lines of movies, TV shows, and news reports. To say that movies dont represent and indeed create reality is evidence of a seriously deranged mind.

      Better jump into your trusty Tardis and tell those people that sailed on the "unsinkable" Titanic.

      Whatever anybody thinks or believes doesn't change physical reality, which was my point. I'm still not entirely sure what point you were attempting to make with your non-sequitur.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    15. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about it. When Turning was killed for being a homo, it was because the media reported homosexuality as being truly wicked. Today homos are heros. What has changed? The media has changed. The media creates reality. Anyone believing anything else is serverely delusional.

      Are you refering to Alan Turing, who doesn't use an 'n' in his name and who either either committed suicide or accidentally poisoned himself, i.e. wasn't "killed for being a homo"?

      Given your tenuous grasp of reality I'd say you're the one who is severely delusional.

    16. Re:Better ideas anyone? by mer1dian · · Score: 1

      A window being shot out would not suck out a passenger.

      While I would agree that a hole in the window wouldn't be a major problem, if the entire window is removed suddenly, yes, a passenger can be sucked out. It happened on National Airlines Flight 27 in November 1973 after an engine had an uncontained failure of the fan disk which threw engine debris into the fuselage and caused at least one window to entirely fail.

      Granted, the passenger wasn't "sucked across the cabin...." He was sitting right next to the window that failed. His body was found two years later.

    17. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you please comment on the airframe accident (?s) in Hawaii that led to crew being ejected mid-air?

    18. Re:Better ideas anyone? by amorsen · · Score: 1

      An airliner is not a spaceship, and movies are not reality.

      Even if they really were spaceships, nothing much would change. 10km is about 1/3 atmosphere, the aircraft is likely at least 3/4 atmosphere. Hard vacuum outside would only make the pressure differential twice as large.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    19. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      A window being shot out would not suck out a passenger.

      While I would agree that a hole in the window wouldn't be a major problem, if the entire window is removed suddenly, yes, a passenger can be sucked out. It happened on National Airlines Flight 27 in November 1973 after an engine had an uncontained failure of the fan disk which threw engine debris into the fuselage and caused at least one window to entirely fail.

      Granted, the passenger wasn't "sucked across the cabin...." He was sitting right next to the window that failed. His body was found two years later.

      If I'm recalling the photos I saw many years ago correctly, to be fair, there was a good bit more fuselage missing in that location than just the window and bezel/seal assembly. It was more like an oblong gash that included the window location. This is from a 3 decades old-plus memory so I may well not be recalling it entirely accurately, but I think it's more likely than not that I'm recalling it fairly accurately.

      I've seen the damage a piece of jet engine compressor blade can do when a compressor turbine shatters at speed. If that unfortunate passenger sitting in that seat was struck, he was likely killed instantly before he was aware of anything wrong and before he was sucked from the cabin.

      Even if he was conscious when he left the cabin, the very thin air at ~30K feet and up combined with the extreme cold at such altitudes would render even a young, strong, healthy, and uninjured man unconscious within seconds. It was quite likely he did not suffer at all, or for more than a few seconds at most.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    20. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have an interest in aviation even though I don't work in the industry (for medical reasons). Thus I read all I can about it and am a regular on aviation forums and based on that knowledge, I know that the requirement for cabin pressurization systems is that the system should handle one cabin window being completely gone. The requirement should IMHO be updated to take into account varying plane sizes (and maybe the fact that the 787 has larger windows than any other airliner) but for now the industry seems willing to go beyond the requirement. Airbus voluntarily decided to make the system in the A380 powerful enough to handle four windows being completely gone.

      I might also add that it isn't all that unusual that when a cabin door happens to leak, the crew simply place a wet towel to stop it well enough to let the pressurization system go back to normal and end the alarm. Thus there's no need to disrupt the flight schedule.

    21. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Doc+Hopper · · Score: 1

      The myth of explosive decompression from a bullet hole has been long since busted; there's no "suddenly" about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... . The hole would just make a whistling noise until someone put some duct tape over it, and the pilot would probably ask everyone to put on their oxygen masks as a precaution while he brings the plane below 11,000 feet. Now if you equipped everyone with some plastic explosive to blow holes in the side of the plane, your concern would be legitimate. Not saying I think we should equip everyone with guns, but an officer or two on every plane carrying standard police-issue sidearms would be effective and safer than what we're doing today.

    22. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >"To reduce stress on the airframe, the cabin is depressurized as the aircraft reaches cruising altitude.This reduces the maximum differential by about 1/3."

      Reduce cabin pressure, increase the recirculation (increase CO2 levels), raise the temperature a bit, give everyone a few drinks. Nice sleepy uncomplaining passengers. Pretty much SOP.

    23. Re:Better ideas anyone? by mer1dian · · Score: 1
      The FAA web site has a really nice page describing the incident. There are some good quality images on that page showing the missing window both from the exterior and interior. Note that there is no fuselage damage in the immediate vicinity of the window. Yes, there is other fuselage damage elsewhere.

      Regardless (and to further digress), I hadn't thought about your premise that the passenger may have been struck by a piece of debris. I suppose it'll never be known for sure. Ugh. Makes one want to think twice about sitting in line with a jet's fan blade or a propeller's plane of rotation. I can think of two other incidents where passengers were gruesomely killed by flying engine parts.

      One was a Convair incident in Brainerd, Minnesota in January 1983 where a propeller blade separated from the hub and entered the cabin killing one and injuring another.

      Another was Delta Air Lines flight 1288 in July 1996. An uncontained failure of the engine killed 2 passengers and injured 5.

      And, of course, none of this has anything to do with the original article.

    24. Re:Better ideas anyone? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      The FAA web site has a really nice page [faa.gov] describing the incident. There are some good quality images on that page showing the missing window both from the exterior and interior. Note that there is no fuselage damage in the immediate vicinity of the window. Yes, there is other fuselage damage elsewhere.

      Ah, then I stand corrected. Nice detective work, btw.

      Regardless (and to further digress), I hadn't thought about your premise that the passenger may have been struck by a piece of debris. I suppose it'll never be known for sure. Ugh. Makes one want to think twice about sitting in line with a jet's fan blade or a propeller's plane of rotation. I can think of two other incidents where passengers were gruesomely killed by flying engine parts.

      Yeah, knowing what we know, sitting in a passenger seat that's in the rotation plane of a jet compressor turbine or standard propeller would be nervous-making. Whenever I've been out on the tarmac where a jet or prop aircraft was starting up and/or performing full-throttle power checks, I've always tried to remain situationally-aware enough to stay out of those hazard areas. Definitely not the way I want to go out.

      Makes one wonder if that unfortunate passenger we were discussing was able to be sucked out of that window-sized hole because he got chopped in two by the compressor blade fragment.

      OK, now who wants sushi? LOL!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    25. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That being said, if you're on an aircraft and some surreal turn of events happens to cause you or someone else you have influence over to absolutely *have to* discharge a firearm while flying in an airliner, try to avoid lines of fire that intersect the wings/engines (and the fuel tanks they contain, although a small-caliber round is unlikely to cause a fire/explosion/sudden fuel loss), the cockpit area (obviously), directly aft through the tail (avionics/autopilot/comms/cabin air pressure pumps/etc) and down through the deck you're standing on (more avionics/flight control/comm/nav/etc, fuel tanks, and landing gear).

      The cabin air pressure pumps are at the rear? I'd read the only jet-based (either turboprop or turbofan) aircraft that doesn't use bleed air from the engines to pressurize the cabin is the 787.

      Of course, avoid windows. Easy one to remember for most Slashdotters. :)

      Are you sure aircraft windows really are a concern? The one demonstration I've seen was Mythbusters experimenting on a 737 that was being scrapped. They rigged a firearm to fire through one of the windows, pressurized the airframe and upon firing all that happened was the window got a hole in it. The window didn't break apart or do anything of concern. Even if you managed to destroy a window, given how much spare air pressure capacity aircraft have, couldn't most handle a window or two being blown out without losing pressurization?

    26. Re:Better ideas anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that if you're in the rear of the cabin you can smell the engine exhaust when they spool up and while taxiing it doesn't surprise me in the least.

  9. We can keep making excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because its easier. I guess its back to signing Justin Bieber petitions because that's the type of effort I can get behind.

  10. He could not wait for the kids to come by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    through.

  11. Most people I talk to support the TSA by litehacksaur111 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most of the people where I work feel the TSA is doing a good job. In fact their response reminds of the Simpson's clip where Lisa sells Homer a rock that keeps bears away. You cannot reason with people this ignorant. They actually believe that the TSA is preventing terrorism and that the only people complaining are brown people. The only way for people to question the TSA is if someone like Edward Snowden manages to get media publicity and expose a bunch of documents or expose some insider contract on those X-ray porno machines sold by Michael Chertoff.

    1. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... They actually believe that the TSA is preventing terrorism and that the only people complaining are brown people. ....

      A good friend works in DC as a science advisor to Congress. Once I asked him how he dealt with that scene. His comment was telling, "Remember that the average IQ is 100". By definition.

      capcha: calmness

    2. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In terms of security, they're useless. This isn't arguable.

      In terms of doing their job - as useless as that job is - I'd have to say, yeah, they're pretty excellent. I've had zero problems with TSA personnel. Probably because I don't act like a self-righteous jackass.

      Protip, kids: Taking a stand and giving the man what for, are you? You're only inconveniencing yourself, and making the "sheeple" irate at you. Now shut the fuck up, show up on time, and don't even pretend you aren't aware of the asinine rule preventing you from taking a normal sized bottle of shampoo on the plane. The terrorists hate us for our soft, manageable hair, and you damned well know it.

    3. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the people where I work feel the TSA is doing a good job. In fact their response reminds of the Simpson's clip where Lisa sells Homer a rock that keeps bears away.
      You cannot reason with people this ignorant. They actually believe that the TSA is preventing terrorism and that the only people complaining are brown people. The only way for people to question the TSA is if someone like Edward Snowden manages to get media publicity and expose a bunch of documents or expose some insider contract on those X-ray porno machines sold by Michael Chertoff.

      Go to New York City sometime to see just how bad it can get. Any cop can stop you and pat you down for any reason with their "stop and frisk" laws. One does not even need to be at an airport. Sadly, only a small minority of the city's population seems opposesed to this. 9/11 has turned New Yorkers in the biggest pussies on earth. They seem afraid of their own shadows now.

    4. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Most of the people where I work feel the TSA is doing a good job. In fact their response reminds of the Simpson's clip where Lisa sells Homer a rock that keeps bears away.

      Hey, that rock is STILL working... No bears around here so far! Now beers, mmm, beer....

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I doubt that my sister would agree with you. And don't try to convince me that she was "trying to take a stand", I know her better than that.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:Most people I talk to support the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because I don't act like a self-righteous jackass.

      It is not "self-righteous" to stand up for fundamental liberties or the US constitution. The TSA is a disgusting and immoral organization that needs to be utterly destroyed.

      and making the "sheeple" irate at you.

      Sounds like their problem to me. If these "sheeple" would have voted out the pieces of trash that put the TSA in place to begin with, or done something about it, the *TSA* wouldn't be inconveniencing anyone or violating anyone's rights. It is ultimately the TSA that inconveniences people, not the people who care about liberties.

  12. in today's anti-whistleblower climate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Given what's happened to other whistleblowers, I have to say this guy's got balls of titanium.

  13. what are the names of the people who wrote those r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Als insisted they made sense. And why haven't they been reassigned by somebody with a common sense?

  14. Re:Confessions Of an Ex-SLASHDOT BETA user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can edit the URL from "beta.slashdot.org" to "www.slashdot.org".

    And yes, the beta thing sucks.

  15. Re:Confessions Of an Ex-SLASHDOT BETA user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it shouldn't redirect at all! it shouldn't auto-load at all!

    i'll have one red snow cone from the Snoopy cone maker, please.

    http://shitforbrains.slashdot....

  16. THE BETA NEEDS TO GO! NOW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I can't believe this. We've been subjected to the Slashdot beta site against our will now for probably a month, if not longer. The hatred for it is unanimous.

    EVERYBODY WHO HAS HAD TO USE THE BETA HATES IT!

    Why can't those running Slashdot see this?

    I see comments expressing EXTREME HATRED for the Slashdot beta in the discussion of nearly every story I read here.

    NOBODY LIKES THE BETA SITE BECAUSE IT IS TOTAL SHIT! THIS HAS BEEN EXPRESSED TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

    Please, this failed beta project needs to be canned. Put an end to this total stupidity now. The beta site is a failure in ever respect, and it cannot be saved.

    This surreal drawn-out failure is absurd. How long do the users here have to point out how completely awful this beta site inherently is? How long until somebody at Slashdot clues in about how everybody absolutely hates the beta site?

  17. Re:It's a mixed bag. It depends on the TSA person. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know what's the worst part of your anecdote. How oblivious you seem to be at your privileged status and why that is a Bad Thing for the rights of all to be considered equal under the law, or how easy it would seem to be to join those ranks. One faked up official looking ID and maybe I could be treated like a free citizen like you.
    Oh and using repeated exposure to relax the vigil of the guards is an old ninja trick, get a job as feeble sweeper of courtyards or emptier of chamber-pots until the guards know you, then strike your target. The guys who go easy on you because they know you are failing in their jobs. (no surprise there. Their jobs were failures from the beginning)

    Then there is the servile response of the TSA agent and what it says about his mindset. He's trained and required to do things he KNOWS are useless, annoying and almost certainly infringing on the civil and constitutional rights of the citizens he searches. He's trained to say that everyone is subject to this, no exceptions, but he appears to believe that irritating a member of the bureaucracy may result in retribution in some form. A civil servant, in one of the crappiest jobs there is to be had in government service, was afraid of you and what you might choose to do if delayed. Do you really think that cringing, on the part of any civil servant, but security people especially is a good thing?

    The moral of your story seems to be that the security theatre we all complain about is clearly something to be inflicted on the peasant masses, not members of the elite like yourself. You get a free pass on the bullshit the rest of us are being forced to endure and you attribute that to a few agents having their heads on straight. You are a functionary of what has become the ruling structure, you are getting special treatment as a result and you think that means the system works. You're an apparatchik and don't even know it....

  18. Nail clippers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the heck does a pilot bring nail clippers to work? I don't.

    1. Re:Nail clippers? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      How often does your work keep you away from home for days on end?

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    2. Re:Nail clippers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Air crew bring luggage, same as passengers. Spare uniform or two, a set of civies or two, paperwork, and a toiletry bag. Hence the nail clippers.

    3. Re:Nail clippers? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but my fingernails are brittle, so I ALWAYS have nail clippers with me. Not having them can be both annoying and painful.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  19. the US stopped preparing for war? stopped FDA? by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Five of the items you listed are "mobilization for ___ war". You're far too smart to actually believe the US has stopped getting ready for war. The NAME of the war has changed, the activity has not.

    Similarly for most of the other names in your list. FSA was the FDA, Social Security Administration, and a few other things. Has the FDA stopped? SSA? No, they moved the program from one department to another. Nothing stopped .

    I'm kind of disappointed, cold fjord. You normally think before you post, but you're off your game on this one.

  20. Greetings from your new foe.... by rts008 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, your saying that Senator Obama was responsible for the formation and implementing the TSA when Bush jr. was the President?

    Hint for the uninformed:
    The TSA was put in place by a Republican George Bush jr., during the first of his two terms in office.

    I marked you foe NOT because I'm an Oama fan, but because I see you as too stupid to even describe in words, and because of the whole TSA, PATRIOT Act, DHS, and all of the other unconstitutional crap turning me fiercely anti-Republican.

    Bush jr. and company all need to be lined up against the wall and shot for the traitors they are.
    And while we're at it, Obama and co. can join them for not correcting this crap.

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    1. Re:Greetings from your new foe.... by Bartles · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He was responsible for renewing the Patriot Act in 2011. He was responsible for the scanners going into airports. He is responsible for every stupid policy that the TSA has. He is the leader of this country whether he wants to be or not, and he should act like it, grow a pair, and use some of his new affinity for executive action to actually do something that improves our way of life rather than impede it. Bush who?

    2. Re:Greetings from your new foe.... by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      You apparently failed to read the last paragraph: GP blames both Bush and Obama for the TSA, which I think is fair.

      I react somewhat differently as to what should be done with them, because I think George W Bush and Dick Cheney should be in roughly the same situation as the defendants at Nuremberg for their crimes against humanity and crimes against the peace - I want them to experience a humiliating trial in which the entire world sees exactly who these guys were and what they did, and then send them to the firing squad.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Greetings from your new foe.... by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 1

      There are something like 300mil+ people in the US. If Bush and Obama had never existed, 2 others who are exactly like them would have been voted into office and done the same thing.

      The problem isn't Bush or Obama; keep looking.

  21. Re:Confessions Of an Ex-SLASHDOT BETA user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    (drops of blood on paper)

    Daily visitor, regular reader, used to have 15 mod points every few days, and then *poof*, for reasons unknown, I haven't had mod points in two years.

    So in lieu of an upmod, please accept this (+6, Sidesplittingly-Funny) from someone who misses the /. of old.

  22. Amazing by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The TSA must be a "different" kind of organization than that which I work for, the United States Air Force. I have written many "letters to the editor" under my real name on many topics that expose my generally Socialist bent and strong anti-authoritarian opinions. Yet, I have never been "admonished", and I recently had my security clearance extended for another 10 years after the standard Security Clearance Anal Probe.

    I think the TSA is a "different" kind of US government agency, one that need to go.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Amazing by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Do you have any practical suggestions on how to accomplish that?

    2. Re:Amazing by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Do you have any practical suggestions on how to accomplish that?

      The Security Clearance Anal Probe? Whatever floats your boat... (oops, that's the Navy)

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:Amazing by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Late action of an outgoing President when the polls make it look like their party isn't getting a chance anyway. Abolishing the vast network of welfare and graft that is the TSA and other useless appendages of Homeland Security is political suicide die to the amount of cash being wasted going into powerful pockets.

    4. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were very careful. You never pointed out that the use of military attack drones in civilian neighborhoods is a war crime, nor that Guantanamo Bay is a basic human rights violation, nor that what we refer to as "terrorist attack" is what we've been funding as "freedom fighters" for the last 200 years in other countries. Try writing any of *those* verifiably correct claims under your real name and rank, and see if you can even track the re-entry flare of your career being dumped into the ocean and the explosive bolts on the hatch being blown to prevent possible recovery.

    5. Re:Amazing by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      You were very careful. You never pointed out that the use of military attack drones in civilian neighborhoods is a war crime, nor that Guantanamo Bay is a basic human rights violation, nor that what we refer to as "terrorist attack" is what we've been funding as "freedom fighters" for the last 200 years in other countries. Try writing any of *those* verifiably correct claims under your real name and rank, and see if you can even track the re-entry flare of your career being dumped into the ocean and the explosive bolts on the hatch being blown to prevent possible recovery.

      How do you know that? If you are assuming that I have not criticized Iraq One and Two, and their architect, you're incorrect.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  23. who voted for the TSA to be created? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not the people right?

  24. Hollywood. bullet hole in plane pin prick bleed by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That sudden loss of pressure is all Hollywood.
    Suddenly losing all blood pressure would be bad, yet a pin prick doesn't kill you. Why? Because the pin prick is so tiny compared to the size of your body. A 9mm bullet hole in 50,000mm plane is similar. Some air leaks out, just like some blood leaks from a paper cut. Not enough to make any difference, though.

    For actual scale, a bullet hole is about 1/5,000 the size of the plane. That's equal to a hole in your skin that is 1/100th of an inch. A typical hypodermic needle is 15 times that size.

  25. Re:Confessions Of an Ex-SLASHDOT BETA user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mod points get cut off if you go against the grain to much. Think twice before modding that non-trolling post that the mods disagree with up!

  26. Are you fucking kidding me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do we really want to keep repeating the same mistakes for thousands of years? Because basically, if things stay as they are, that's exactly what will happen.
    I'm just tired of the world being mediocre because of the wishes of a few people at the top, be it my own country Australia with our tremendously stupid Prime Minister, Mr. Abbott, or the Tea Party douchebags who wouldn't just shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that they can't have everything their way. (they're both practically the same thing, right wing extremists who are just re-hashing the same old shitty conservative policy from 30 years ago).
    I mean, Tony Abbott is practically trying to make Trickle Down Economics work here... although you will NEVER hear anybody characterize it as that, personally I think my fellow Australians are too stupid to know what that even means. It would be hilarious if he wasn't so hell bent on achieving it.
    It comes down to this: You can't shit on other human beings and expect to get away with it all the time, sometimes people will get fed up, sometimes people get tired of the arrangements they have. Look what happened in your country 13 years ago, a small faction of Radical Islamists basically got fed up with America, what they did was horrible, I can only imagine the pain and anguish of those people who lost somebody because of that event, but your government did a deal with them many years previous, your country helped them get into power in their region all just to make things difficult for the Soviets, and what was the point? They fucking collapsed under their own weight during the early 90's!
    Ultimately, America is responsible for what happens to America, don't fuck with people if you can't handle the retaliation.
    I mean you guys are so mixed up, you want to all be good righteous people who treat eachother right according to your constitution, yet as soon as someone blows up some buildings you all lose your fucking minds and practically tear the same piece of paper to pieces AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT go to some shithole country that the vast majority of Americans had not even heard of and can't even find on a map and then rain down fire and death upon anybody who even resembles a Taliban supporter, to the point where you have drones killing civilians over there for looking suspicious.
    It's very simple, all humans should be treated the same, with respect and courtesy, but if you fuck other people over, don't expect to get away with it forever. The TSA is something I would definitely class as fucking people over, there's just no justification for touching other people's genitals, I don't care what some paranoid pol or military official says, they all have proven track records of lying to the public at this point, anybody who is still supporting all this security bullshit in it's current form is suspect, mainly because it's been proven time and time again that even with all of this TSA crap, there's still GAPING holes in the security. If the average American can see them, you can bet your ass that the Taliban can.

    1. Re:Are you fucking kidding me? by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      Oil!

      We couldn't take the chance on Russia having that kind of free access to those oil reserves, there is no other reason why we should have gotten involved.

      Fast Forward to today, we can never get out of there, the repercussions of our interference will haunt our great grand children if we had left 10 years ago.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    2. Re:Are you fucking kidding me? by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      We need politicians like you. :-/

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    3. Re:Are you fucking kidding me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an Australian, you seem to have a great understanding of Tea party "douchebags". And America. I would imagine you think all Americans ride around with Guns, shootin' 'em, and hootin' and hollerin'. Perhaps with a baseball cap on.

      I shall not pontificate on Australia, if you promise the same for the US. Seems fair.

  27. black powder is k NITRATE by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    He said black powder. Black powder is potassium NITRATE aka kno3.
    A little charcoal, a lot of potassium nitrate, and a pinch of sulfur.

    1. Re:black powder is k NITRATE by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      "Firearm usage"..pretty sure that means nitrocellulose and ng even if its smokeless...still puts off nitrate salts

    2. Re:black powder is k NITRATE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus it's not like it's going to make a lot of difference what a pipe bomb contains - it's still going to injure/kill a lot of people.

  28. Would you lie because your employer tells you do ? by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

    He says that he was told to say things that they knew were not true, eg:

    We were also ordered to tell the public that the machines were 100 percent effective, security-wise, in the event that any citizens caught wind of rumors to the contrary.

    Yes: an employer can tell you how to spend your time when at your place of employment, but do they have the right to make you tell lies ? What about the managers who ask others to tell lies, do they care that they know that they are doing wrong ? If you do care, then why do it ? I know that in practice if you do not lie your job may be at risk, but can you be fired for not wanting to be dishonest ? It seems, somehow, that when you work for an organisation that many people feel that they must support ''their team'', even when it is doing wrong. Mr Harrington has at least come clean after the event, but how many employees at other organisation do not have the balls to do so ?

    This does not just happen at the TSA, it happens in many organisations: salesmen making exaggerated product claims, banks screwing customers, NSA employees claiming that they obey the law, ... If and when these calumnies are found out the organisation might get a knock, but rarely the individual. We need to bring back personal accountability for what individuals do, we then might see a reduction in ''corporate lying'' and the world would be a better place.

    I know that I am an idealist, but is this a deam too far ?

  29. Ageless Wisdom by VendettaMF · · Score: 2

    "It was a job that had me patting down the crotches of children, the elderly and even infants"

    Never make a job of what you love.
    In the end it's still just a job, and you've ruined your hobby.

    --
    kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
    1. Re:Ageless Wisdom by betterprimate · · Score: 1

      "It was a job that had me patting down the crotches of children, the elderly and even infants"

      Never make a job of what you love.
      In the end it's still just a job, and you've ruined your hobby.

      Um, does that mean his hobby is patting down the crotches of children and the elderly?

  30. All those programs HAVE NOT ENDED by Trachman · · Score: 1

    All these programs HAVE NOT ENDED, because all of them cost money, which was borrowed by increasing the debt.

    As long as US has any debt, US is still paying for the programs initiated. That is the hole point that all the initiatives need to be paid with your future dollars. Yor ollars WILL be taken from you in the form of higher taxes or through devaluation.

    A good example is Germany who just recently finished paying WW1 debts.

    All those programs can be boiled down to the scheme to go after YOUR money in one shape or in another

  31. fuck off, thunderclap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please, post those pictures and texts so we all can call you an idiot.

    1. Re:fuck off, thunderclap by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      I would if you hadn't pussed out AC. Cough up the Karma and I cough up the pics.

  32. Is that really a problem? by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    Again, I disagree. Today, the internal structuring of the military is being tampered with to accommodate various special interest groups.

    Actually, the MUCH more important thing going on right now is tampering with the military to make it effective, or trying to. Did ending DADT take some time and resources? Yes, because they used that time to make damn sure it wouldn't effect combat capabilities and that front-line troops would be ready for it. They were smart about it and learned exactly where they were most likely to have problems (33% of marines were the most concerned about it), and had good training and a strong message all the way down the chain of command. It worked, and more importantly, it worked as the military put it into effect, and NOT the way it would have gone down otherwise--because if it hadn't been done, a federal court would have ordered it and full service integration would have had to happen overnight. That came damn close to happening, and I'm sure a few soldiers had their lives saved by the fact that Defense was ready to move on it.

    However, there are MUCH bigger problems at defense. Aquisitions is insane and parochial, and based on what Congress wants for their district pork rather than on what is actually needed to run a country. In order to actually get anything done, you need crash programs that SECDEF arranges personally and a way for the real needs of soldiers in the field to penetrate up the chain of command--which it usually doesn't, now. And the institutional bureaucratic problems on the Veteran's side are an almost intractable problem.

    Those groups begin with women and gays, and continue with Muslims, atheists, and ends God knows where.

    A recent article shows that the Pentagon is reconsidering uniform requirements to permit beards and turbans for Muslims. Now consider that beards have been outlawed by our military for decades, based on "discipline" considerations. No redneck, no Jew, no mountain man has been permitted to display a beard while in uniform. Suddenly - we are courting Muslims, so out of the goodness of our hearts, we are going to allow them to wear beards and turbans.

    So what? If we are going to allow beards I'm sure the soldier with them will still have to be well-groomed (to the extent soldiers usually are, anyway--try smelling one after a week in the field for ranger training), and if we allow them only for religious reasons I'm sure they will be available for people of different religions where the religion mandates them, and if we allow them for people who will work in cultures where beards are status symbols it may even *help* the image of the United States in those countries. Let's not foreclose the possibility that it's okay just because it's never been done.

    Fundamentally, when you really think about it, are these things really a problem that will prevent the military from doing it's job, or is it just that you're uncomfortable with them or with the way they've been done or presented?

  33. Actually questioned a TSA agent -- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many bad guys have you caught here, in this airport (Madison, Wisconsin) in the last 10 years?
    That's a good question.
    Well here's a good answer -- ZERO.

    Kind of makes all that money floating into the economy from my tax dollars seem soooo worthwhile.

  34. i called b.s. when he said hydroplane pounds by bdabautcb · · Score: 1

    It doesn't matter how much your truck weighs, if your driving like a jackass and you have enough wheels, you can hydroplane any vehicle. An elephant could waterski behind my boat, if I could figure out how to tow it fast enough. If you are stupid enough to lose control of an semi, please call me. You may just be dumb enough to help me figure out how to waterski an elephant.

    --
    Koalas. They're telepathic. Plus, they control the weather. -Margaret
  35. I'm an actual TSO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes I work for the TSA. One does what he must in this economy. That said after joining, I actually discovered it's not really like what people on the outside describe it as. Maybe that's because I started only recently, and things have changed, but I suspect much more of this article is an appeal to confirmation bias. I'll try to clear things up, but because I can only reveal things that are already public knowledge, I'll be limited as to what I can talk about to things you'd observe yourself if you went through a screening checkpoint.

    So let's get started on the things this article claims. Right off the bat I see one big obvious mistake. It uses the term "TSA Agent." They're actually called Transportation Security Officers, or "TSO" for short. We don't like being called "agents." It's a small annoyance we put up with from the public, but no TSO would call himself an agent. We prefer officer.

    Next up. These so called code words. I've never heard these inmy airport. On the checkpoint, extreme professionalism is demanded of our crew. Behavior like that and offhand unnecessary statements are scrutinized. Singling out someone for additional screening is strictly forbidden. Commentary on a passenger is strictly forbidden. If you behaved like this at my checkpoint, you'd quickly find yourself out of a job.

    We do have random additional screening protocols. These are set by the machine to go off at random intervals. We do not control them.

    Now let's talk about the machines. The notorious backscatter X-ray machines. Those were decommissioned before I started. They no longer exist. The modern AITs use radio waves on the same frequency as a cellphone or walky talky. An algorithm is used to detect anomolies, and the only screen that exists simply depicts the location of anomolies and no body information on the passenger. The screen is right there for you to view. From what I gather from the old timers, no one liked the backscatter machines, and they were glad to see them go.

    As far as the x-ray goes. The person running the X-ray has say over what does and doesn't get searched, but I assure you they're paying attention, because they're tested on a daily basis. If they call a bag search without good reason it will come back on them because frivalous searches effect throughput.

    Now let's talk about the most grevious claim of this article. The claim of feeling up children and crotches. Here's two things about our pat down procedure. We do not grab. There is no grabbing. Flat hands only. If someone is grabbing they're doing it wrong. The procedure also requires avoiding the "zipper line." As far as kids. We don't pat down kids. There is a long procedure that requires approval from upstairs to do a pat down on a child, and the answer from upstairs is generally a no, unless there is a very good reason to do it, such as the child is flying with a suspected terrorist.

    Additonally, no we do not detain people, strip search people, or confiscate their stuff. What we can do is tell someone they aren't getting on the plane, and call a LEO if we see evidence of criminal behavior. We can not tell somoen to take something off. Next time someone says the TSA confiscated grandpa's pocket knife, I can tell you that they're diverting the blame. We only tell people they can't take the item on the plane. They have every chance to take the item back out, put it in their car, or hand it off. Bigger airports even have a post office where they can mail the item to themselves. The fact is they didn't value grandpa's heirloom pocket knife more than their own mild inconvenience.

    As far as the background checks go, I had to wait 6 months between hire, and starting for my background check to clear. I can't vouch for if there is bad management elsewhere who are looking the other way, but it was made quite clear to me that my record must be spotless in order to join. No felonies, no misdimenours, and yes past employers and references did actually call me to ask if the ba

    1. Re:I'm an actual TSO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There were a number of misconceptions in your otherwise well written post, so I'll add some comments from a semi-frequent traveler based upon my observations at airports large and small from around the country.

      Yes I work for the TSA. One does what he must in this economy.

      I would sincerely like to thank you for your service. The job sucks, many of your "customers" are assholes, and you'll rarely hear a thanks.

      These so called code words. I've never heard these in my airport... On the checkpoint, extreme professionalism is demanded of our crew. Behavior like that and offhand unnecessary statements are scrutinized. Singling out someone for additional screening is strictly forbidden. Commentary on a passenger is strictly forbidden.

      In the last year, I've observed every one of the listed behaviors at the following US airports: Honolulu, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, San Franciso, Chicago (ORD), St Louis, Phoenix, Denver, and Los Angeles. I'd even started working out the "code" well before finding the dictionary on the blog (I spend a lot of time in those fucking lines).

      If you behaved like this at my checkpoint, you'd quickly find yourself out of a job.

      As they well should be, but again it's not what I've observed and I see the same TSOs trip after trip.

      We aren't coming into your house, we are not stopping anyone on the street. We perform simple screening that you agree to when you choose to get on that airplane. Don't like it? Every part of the U.S. is connected by road and rail. No one is forcing this on you. You can live your whole life without encountering the TSA by just not getting on a public flight. The fact of the matter is, that given the risk, there is nothing unreasonable about a bag being X-rayed and walking through a metal detector, a search which you agreed to as a condition of using cheap and easy air transit.

      Not quite Kemosabe, see VIPR for more on the stops on the street. Also, did we complete the land bridge to Hawaii when I wasn't looking? I guess I could travel by boat if I had an extra 30 days on every trip. Oh wait, VIPR teams patrol rail and marine port facilities as well as the streets (highways). I will agree that there is nothing unreasonable about metal detectors and bag X-rays. We had both of those pre-9/11. What we didn't have pre-9/11 were the Rapiscan & AIT scanners and a policy of intimidation/retribution while forcing TSOs to humiliate themselves playing bag-tag with the people who opt out.

      You could always pay more to get on a private flight, but the public has almost universally chosen the bus with wings style of the modern day over the flying limo of old.

      Your definition of a public flight is interesting. Most airfares are in fact a private contract between a corporation and an individual for conveyance and governed by civil law. The Government provides regulation via the FAA and admittedly, US airport security was not regulated heavily enough pre-9/11. However, the screenings introduced in the early 70's by FAA regulation improved the situation immensely (28 years before there was a TSA).

      And frankly if you want to be treated better by the TSO's, most of whom really do at least try to be reasonable and polite, trybeing a reasonable and polite person rather than screaming at them, and using the line as your personal soapbox. Human nature is such that like begets like. If you are hostile, most people will give you back hostility. If you are polite, and courteous, you'll be surprised how much nicer everyone is to you.

      Mostly what you say is true, being decent and playing the game goes a long way, most of the time, at checkpoints.

      I'm sure bad apples exist out of there, but they are weeded out eventually, and some

    2. Re:I'm an actual TSO by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      One does what he must in this economy.

      Then you are an immoral individual. "I was just following orders." wasn't a valid excuse, and neither is "I needed a job!"

      The TSA violates people's fundamental liberties and the constitution. It doesn't matter how much you try to trivialize these violations, as those facts will remain facts.

      In that role we've been 100% successful for over a decade.

      Such nonsense. We also didn't really have an attack like what happened on 9/11 before 9/11, so I guess airport security was 100% effective then, too. In reality, secured cockpit doors and the willingness of passengers to fight back have done far, far more than any of you thugs.

      If you don't want to be delayed, then by all means stop trying to sneak knives and guns onto planes.

      How about you government thugs stop harassing people at airports and get out? I don't care how effective you claim to be; I don't care how effective you are; I care that your job requires that you violate the fourth amendment and people's fundamental liberties and privacy.

      Freedom is more important than safety, and while I deny that you are anything more than security theater, that is my fundamental point. The fact that you haven't realized this shows how unprincipled you are.

    3. Re:I'm an actual TSO by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      I would sincerely like to thank you for your service.

      You should not thank thugs who violate people's rights and the constitution for a living; it sends the message that doing so is okay, and that's absolutely false.

    4. Re:I'm an actual TSO by allaunjsiIverfox2 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what else you could ask for.

      Stop violating the constitution and people's rights. Move to destroy the entire organization that you work for, which is something I'm trying to do.

      Don't like it? Every part of the U.S. is connected by road and rail.

      You should not have to avoid riding on planes in order to not be harassed by government thugs. Your 'logic' applied to other scenarios: "You don't want your home randomly searched by police? Don't live in this city. You can move elsewhere where it doesn't happen!"

      Stop rationalizing your abuses; it's an eyesore.

  36. AwwwYEAAAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shit I don't mind the TSA at all!

    I just put on my very best redneck accent and tell the TSA:

    Get in there nice and deep like boy!

    Grunting noises ensue as they pet me down, enjoy it so much now a days that I actually get most other passengers doing the exact same shit as well haha

    Yippee ki yay motherf*ckers!

  37. a very new thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US government being involved in healthcare is a "very new thing?" Tell that to the National Institute of Health, Medicare, Medicaid, the Veterans Administration hospitals, military hospitals, and the Food and Drug Administration, among others. You may not like all (I dislike some) of what the House and Senate voted for, now named after the President for some reason, but the involvement in healthcare is hardly new!

  38. and those libraries have information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    about the possessive pronoun "its"