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First Evidence That Google's Quantum Computer May Not Be Quantum After All

KentuckyFC writes "In May last year, Google and NASA paid a reported $15 million for a quantum computer from the controversial Canadian start up D-Wave Systems. One question mark over the device is whether it really is quantum or just a conventional computer in disguise. That's harder to answer than it sounds, not least because any direct measurement of a quantum state destroys it. So physicists have to take an indirect approach. They assume the computer is a black box in which they can input data and receive an output. Given this input and output, the question is whether this computing behavior can be best reproduced by a classical or a quantum algorithm. Last summer, an international team of scientists compared a number of classical algorithms against an algorithm that relies on a process called quantum annealing. Their conclusion was that quantum annealing best reproduces the D-Wave computer's behavior, a result that was a huge boon for the company. Now a group from UC Berkeley and IBM's Watson Research Lab says it has a found a classical algorithm that explains the results just as well, or even better, than quantum annealing. In other words, the results from the D-Wave machine could just as easily be explained if it was entirely classical. That comes on the back of mounting evidence that the D-Wave computer may not cut the quantum mustard in other ways too. Could it be that Google and NASA have forked out millions for a classical calculator?"

38 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. It makes me feel better by SpectreBlofeld · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am at such a loss of understanding what exactly quantum computers are and how they work (no matter how hard I try)... so it makes me feel like less of an idiot when I find out that it's so complicated that even Google engineers aren't even sure if what they have IS one.

    1. Re:It makes me feel better by femtobyte · · Score: 5, Funny

      FYI a quantum computer is not a black box.

      Well, it doesn't matter what color you paint the box, so long as there are enough entangled cats inside. </highlytechnicaldescription>

    2. Re:It makes me feel better by Suki+I · · Score: 2

      Just like a write off? They know!

      Apparently opening one of these things and looking at its innards violates the warranty really bad.

    3. Re:It makes me feel better by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      LMOL...the difference is they're suppose to know.

      The point is that no one knows. Yeah, everyone knows that the D-Wave device is a rather different approach than "traditional" quantum computers, but that doesn't mean it can't exploit the same effects... until the research determines that it doesn't.

      It's also the case that even if it's not actually a quantum computer there may still be some way the concept can be extended to become a useful device, which may be discovered through experimentation. Or maybe it can't. Research is like that.

      (Disclaimer: I'm a Google engineer, but don't work on anything remotely as interesting as quantum computing, and don't know much about it.)

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:It makes me feel better by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Funny

      All I can offer you is a quantum of solace.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    5. Re:It makes me feel better by bobbied · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just like a write off? They know!

      Apparently opening one of these things and looking at its innards violates the warranty really bad.

      Yea, the manufacturer has kittens when you open it..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:It makes me feel better by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It simultaneously is an isn't a quantum computer until you observe it.

    7. Re:It makes me feel better by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

      All I can offer you is a quantum of solace.

      The six people in the world that understood that movie title thank you.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    8. Re:It makes me feel better by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      There have been cons and swindles since mankind first learned to speak. When it comes to this amount of money, you MUST be allowed to see inside the box before buying. If it's not allowed then stop the negotiations cold and move on.

    9. Re:It makes me feel better by pierrer · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... and then it isn't.

  2. Quantum Cash! by JDeane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why buy something that isn't demonstratively faster than the old stuff...

    I mean if the difference is so small that there is some sort of debate about if it is effectively working or not, then it seems to me at that point cost should be the deciding factor. I doubt these D Wave machines are any cheaper than the old stuff.

    1. Re:Quantum Cash! by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why buy something that isn't demonstratively faster than the old stuff

      Research often requires baby steps. If you ignore every new idea whose first (or hundredth!) iteration isn't already better than what we have, you'll ignore every new idea.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:Quantum Cash! by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Informative

      Before this research, it was demonstrably faster at some things, and slower at things a quantum computer is not good at. So they did exactly what you expect.

    3. Re:Quantum Cash! by femtobyte · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, D-Wave's proprietary approach is getting in the way of proper "baby-steps" research. Before you go selling a zillion-qbit $15M black-box system, productive research would involve letting independent research groups perform stringent tests for "quantumness" on, e.g., a simplified 2-bit system. D-Wave is selling an obfuscated system, getting in the way of low-level bare-hardware fundamentals that really advance research.

    4. Re:Quantum Cash! by Warbothong · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why buy something that isn't demonstratively faster than the old stuff...

      I mean if the difference is so small that there is some sort of debate about if it is effectively working or not, then it seems to me at that point cost should be the deciding factor. I doubt these D Wave machines are any cheaper than the old stuff.

      Part of the problem has been D-Wave's confusing abuse of terminology:

      1) They claim their device is a computer, but it's not according to the usual definition (a Turing machine with bounded tape (RAM)). It's more similar to an ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit).
      2) They claim their device is a quantum computer, but it's not according to the usual definition (a device which requires quantum phenomena to operate). There is some evidence it uses quantum effects, but they don't appear fundamental to its operation (otherwise we wouldn't be having this quantum-or-not merry-go-round).
      3) They claim their device solves its (application-specific) problem 35,000x faster than a classical machine, but in fact they had programmed the classical machine with a much harder problem (finding an exact solution, rather than an approximate one). When a classical computer was programmed to solve the same problem as D-Wave's machine, the classical machine was faster.
      4) They consistently conflate quantum algorithms (algorithms inspired by quantum mechanics) with quantum computing (which requires quantum mechanics to operate). Their machine implements a 'quantum simulated annealing' algorithm, but this doesn't require a quantum computer to run. Likewise, a regular 'simulated annealing' algorithm doesn't require a heat engine to run. Likewise a 'genetic algorithm' doesn't require a DNA-based computer to run.
      5) They keep moving the goalposts to remain as impressive-but-vague as possible. Rather than showing definitive results to back up their claims, they keep making claims then weakening them afterwards when researchers show them to be false. This is like an inverse No-True-Scotsman; academics have a clear definition of what a quantum computer is, and D-Wave keep trying to expand that definition it to include their machines.

      In short, Google and NASA bought their machines when there were claims bouncing around about 35,000x speedups, but these were subsequently found to be flawed.

      I'm all for investing in basic research, but it often looks like D-Wave's research output is coming from their marketing department rather than their scientists and engineers :(

    5. Re:Quantum Cash! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Suppose someone tried to sell you a "horseless carriage" that was pulled by a big black box. You insert hay and oats into one side of the black box, then it goes "clop-clop-clop" and pulls the carriage at about the speed of an old horse in a big black box. If you watched closely enough, you'd observe horse turds falling out of the back of the box. That, so far, is what D-Wave's "quantum computer" looks like to astute outside observers. How much are you going to pay to be on this "leading edge" of carriage technology?

  3. Who cares? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Obviously, you don't have a use for a quantum computer if you can't find a way to determine if it's a quantum computer. If it's just speed, what you want is a super-computer. If it's the ability to perform certain calculations, they simply don't work on a classical computer (or take eternity, even for a super-computer).

    1. Re:Who cares? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously, you don't have a use for a quantum computer if you can't find a way to determine if it's a quantum computer.

      Unless the act of trying to find out changes the answer, of course.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Who cares? by ybanrab · · Score: 2, Funny

      Negative, each red LED makes the computer 1(one) faster. A P-III with one red LED is functionally equivalent to a P-IV.

      Unfortunately, given predominance of heteronormative patriarchal culture, PIV is problematic and females cannot be said to have truly consented to using these machines.

      This is why Apple products don't have red LEDs, and are popular with females whilst technically 1(one) slower. Most females can detect attempts to 'red light' PIV consent even remotely, so unless you can identify server traffic by bit-gender it's best to use the slower machines.

      If you can identify bit-gender reliably, masculine traffic is unproblematic processed by PIV methods, feminine traffic should be directed to a cluster of co-operating P-III servers.

      Hope that helps.

    3. Re:Who cares? by TheCarp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Obviously, you don't have a use for a quantum computer if you can't find a way to determine if it's a
      > quantum computer

      This. How are they even programming this thing? As I understand it, a quantum computer doesn't just take your classical function and execute it faster; but instead would come at the problem via an algorithm designed to find the answer using algorithms that rely on quantum effects.

      Is there any reason to believe a quantum computer algorithm, run through a classical system, should produce the correct answer?

      I mean, i am sure the people testing this understand it at a deeper level than I do, but I am surprised that this is so hard to verify.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    4. Re:Who cares? by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2

      Your point doesn't make sense. If they are TESTING quantum states, they are obviously creating what they think are quantum logic gates -- and NO this isn't going to work faster than their desktop computer. It's not like they've got an entire CPU or the ability to recognize the states faster.

      I'm guessing that a Quantum computer would be great for finding data sets like "is the answer within this range" -- as all the results could be superimposed, but no state found. So if you were suing one to crack a password, you would say; In this range of 3 billion hashs, is one of these a solution to the question: what is password. You'd get a yes or no. If yes, you cut the array in half and keep cutting until you find it.

      And I've been on record for some time saying that not being able to "know a quantum state" is not a law of the Universe but merely a practical matter due to the way we test the state is too powerful and disruptive, it's like testing for cows by firing cannon balls at them -- the cow state is either known to have been in a location, but the cow is no longer in a "cow like state" after it has been hit by a large cannon ball. They've over-mystified the physics of tiny things IMHOP.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    5. Re:Who cares? by reve_etrange · · Score: 2

      How are they even programming this thing?

      Simple, they use the Python library.

      No joke, you use use statements like:

      blackbox_answer = blackbox_solver.solve(obj, num_vars, cluster_num = 10, \
      min_iter_inner = blackbox_parameter, max_iter_outer= blackbox_parameter, \
      unchanged_threshold=blackbox_parameter, max_unchanged_objective_outer=blackbox_parameter, \
      max_unchanged_objective_inner = blackbox_parameter, \
      unchanged_best_threshold = blackbox_parameter, verbose=0)

      As Megol said though it only works for certain problems. Their Python class is really called "BlackBoxSolver."

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
  4. Would D-Wave Take That Risk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Do we really think that D-Wave Systems would take that risk? They have to know that just about every major university and tech company will try to prove them wrong. Not to mention that Google will probably spend more to verify this purchase than they made on the purchase itself.

    I don't know D-Wave Systems from Adam, but is this a risk they would take?

    1. Re:Would D-Wave Take That Risk? by Salgat · · Score: 2

      A better question is if they don't mind the risk if they already got their money.

    2. Re:Would D-Wave Take That Risk? by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even better, at least one group of smart people was fooled, and it took a group from UC Berkeley and IBM's Watson Research Lab to show a plausible classical algo. If it is fraud, it is well executed. That makes me believe they actually do have a crappy quantum computer, or believe they do.

      And, with an actual product, people are hammering on it in ways that will prompt quant research into being able to prove or disprove how it works. Fraud or not, its a boon to everyone who didn't pay for it directly.

    3. Re:Would D-Wave Take That Risk? by femtobyte · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Chances are, they don't know themselves exactly how "quantum" the system is. It's unlikely to be an outright fraud --- there's something other than a Core 2 Duo on the inside faking quantum results --- but a system working on the hairy edge of current technical understanding. They've built something that has a bunch of cryogenic doodads and performs annealing, but the technical understanding isn't all there. That said, they have demonstrated signs of acting in bad faith --- being very cagey about offering real details, and performing poorly-done comparisons against sub-optimal classical systems. So, they know that even they don't know whether the system they have lives up to claims, and are acting like a for-profit corporation rather than researchers with integrity about it.

  5. Google uncertainty by Drewdad · · Score: 2

    Google may or may not want to acquire D-Wave Systems....

  6. Well ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe it simultaneously both is and isn't a Quantum computer? :-P

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  7. You fools! by Kenja · · Score: 2, Funny

    You changed the outcome by measuring it!

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  8. Unlimited power by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have a device for sale which generates free, unlimited power. The catch is that you cannot measure the power output or it won't function. If you put any load on the device you are directly or indirectly measuring the power, and thus it won't work. So just know up front that stipulation and use the device accordingly.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Unlimited power by multimediavt · · Score: 2

      I have a device for sale which generates free, unlimited power. The catch is that you cannot measure the power output or it won't function. If you put any load on the device you are directly or indirectly measuring the power, and thus it won't work. So just know up front that stipulation and use the device accordingly.

      False equivalence police are coming for you. Quantum computers do produce output that theoretically can be tested and validated. Your imaginary power device, by your own definition does not accept load so does not produce output. Not a similar device. It would have been better to compare it to the computer in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that came up with '42' as the answer to the ultimate question. Since you can't (as in, no present ability to) validate the answer how do you know the computer actually executed the algorithm correctly with the input data? It's a head scratcher and why quantum computing is going to take a while longer to take off. There are some intractable problems for classical computing, but most are not of known great consequence to humanity compared to the work that can still be done on ever advancing classical hardware. Sure, something, maybe quantum computing, will supplant the current tech, but classical computing methods still have a lot of usefulness left in them. Certainly enough to carry them well past quantum computing coming of age.

    2. Re:Unlimited power by gweihir · · Score: 2

      You wouldn't be related to a guy called Rossi?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Unlimited power by pitchpipe · · Score: 2

      Unlimited power

      I have a device for sale which generates free, unlimited power. The catch is that you cannot measure the power output or it won't function. If you put any load on the device you are directly or indirectly measuring the power, and thus it won't work. So just know up front that stipulation and use the device accordingly.

      This is a perfect description of God.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
  9. Re:Don't forget there's another out there. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3

    WARN: THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM...


    stupid caps filter, it's supposed to be all in caps

  10. Re:simple solution? by nashv · · Score: 2

    Erm. The architecture of the D-wave core chip is sufficiently well known. . What is not know is if quantum effects are playing a role in the functioning. It is designed to encourage and at least allow quantum effects based on the Ising model. The question is of course, does the quantum magic actually occur?, and if it does, does it help?.

    Or was that IC thing supposed to be funny?

    --
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  11. A quick overview by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Quantum effects are not hard to understand, they're just counter-intuitive to everyday experience. This site has a good explanation of QM, and how it differs from normal experience.

    The universe doesn't work in specifics until something is measured. It doesn't choose parameters for particles (spin, position, &c) at the outset and let things evolve like little billiard balls.

    Instead, it uses probabilities which flow and interact with one another. These probabilities have both amplitude and phase, so that the interactions are wave-like as well as probability-like. For example, because of this wave-like interaction it's possible for two non-zero probability flows to completely cancel to zero.

    The universe appears to calculate probabilities for all possible outcomes and only choose one when the measurement is made. When particles are entangled, you increase the number of possible outcomes. For each new particle that becomes entangled you increase the number of possible outcomes by a factor of two. Ten particles will have 2^10 = 1024 possible outcomes, and so on.

    So to do math at the quantum level, you take a set of entangled particles and set up the measurement so that division with no remainder has probability one while division with any other remainder has probability zero. Then load your register with all the integers, let the probabilities interact, and take the measurement.

    You have just performed division using all the integers at once.

    If you can do this with a reasonably large register you can check all the factors of a composite number in linear time - the time it takes you to load sqrt(P) divisors into the register.

    Easy peasy!

    An interesting side-note is the idea of the universe keeping track of all possible outcomes until a measurement is made. If this works as predicted, the universe will have to keep track of 2^3000 possible outcomes, depending on the key length (3000 is the recommended RSA key length to be secure until 2030).

    There are only ~10^80 = 2^240 atoms in the universe. If a quantum computer works as predicted, one wonders how and where the universe keeps track of all these states. At the very least, quantum computing is interesting because it will allow us to probe the limits of the universe in an entirely new domain.

    Here's hoping we don't encounter a buffer overflow.

    (Note: Some facts were harmed in the making of this explanation.)

    1. Re:A quick overview by jovius · · Score: 2

      You stated the number of atoms in the observable universe. The universe is most likely infinite. It's also possible that the natural constants change at the ultra large scales. You also imply that the universe has some kind a purpose, because it needs to keep track of all of the states. There necessarily is no purpose and no need to track the states. It can be a freely oscillating system, although the vibrations are mostly subdued because the universe is almost totally frozen by now in it's current(?) rendition.

  12. Nonsense by quax · · Score: 3, Informative

    D-Wave has Josephson junction qubits on their chip and couple them. Yet, somehow they are supposed to end up with a machine that is a classical annealer? Although the behavior of the box is exactly what you'd expect from a quantum annealer?

    Seems rather far fetched.

    I wished before anybody was writing about D-Wave they'd watch this video form the last Q+ hang-out where the Troyer et. al. research into the characteristics of the D-Wave machine was presented.