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Darker Arctic Boosting Global Warming
The Grim Reefer sends this news from an Associated Press report:
"The Arctic isn't nearly as bright and white as it used to be because of more ice melting in the ocean, and that's turning out to be a global problem, a new study says. With more dark, open water in the summer, less of the sun's heat is reflected back into space. So the entire Earth is absorbing more heat than expected, according to a study (abstract) published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. That extra absorbed energy is so big that it measures about one-quarter of the entire heat-trapping effect of carbon dioxide, said the study's lead author, Ian Eisenman, a climate scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California. The Arctic grew 8 per cent darker between 1979 and 2011, Eisenman found, measuring how much sunlight is reflected back into space."
The same decrease in ice contributes to the weather circumstances that led to extremely low temperatures across parts of the United States this winter.
Post?
Small problem with that is this summer had 50% less ice melt in the arctic
And increased heat in the oceans can (and likely will) lead to increased cloud formation, which will alter the planet's albedo in the opposite direction. How much and how soon? Nobody knows. But the planet has been both warmer and cooler than it is now during it's long history. Each time it's damped out cycles of extreme warming and extreme cooling all by itself.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Aren't all climatologists frauds and communists? Thank goodness for the Koch Brothers, Mark Steyn and Christopher Booker, paragons of scientific research and virtue. I think the time has come to start culling climatologists, too many of these evil people daring to say releasing CO2 is bad. After all, we all know that carbon emissions don't happen, and even if they did, they're good for you much like how cigarette smoke and teaching Creationism will lead to a better society.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Nuff said, Dice Holdings.
When the planet starts to cool down, the Global Warmers would blame that on Global Warming, too.
They predicted the earth would get warmer and once again they were wrong. You can't twist the logic for every happenstance to fit your agenda after the fact. This just proves once again that "man made climate change" is in fact nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
Right now the arctic ocean and Hudson Bay are 100% frozen due to this thing we call winter. Summer it is a different story.
Second the world is getting cooler or stagnate in warming in recent years due to solar lull and dining as evident in the lack of solar flares. Last time this happened we had the mini ice age from 1400 - 1850. There is no scientific basis of global warming causing the polar vortex.
http://saveie6.com/
Looking on the bright side - thanks to all our wanton climate changing industrial activity and glacial public acceptance of the situation, we are getting our first experiences with terraforming. Admittedly, these experiences are like one's first experiences with learning how to paint - finger painting and messy, but with much larger existential consequences and no actual paint.
Hopefully "soon" we get a good foothold on Mars, and hopefully, and this sounds weird I know, there is NO life on Mars. Because that would give us a nice "sterile planetary lab" on which to experiment as we find ways to control global climates without operating on the only global climate we have available - which we happen to depend on completely and utterly for our survival.
Better to start experimenting on another one as soon as possible, because even when we get a handle on our climate changing activities, nature is standing by with a much larger list of climate changing activities which we will have to confront.
Maybe Venus too - if we can fix that place we can fix anywhere! So Mars would be like our lab and Venus is like our final exam.
And I think we really need to pass this course.
The earth isn't some fragile little thing, or a static rock like mars. Just let things take their course and we'll see what comes out of it.
Did you RTFA?? I'm guessing that this guy is using "fractal statistics" to describe the probability of the atmosphere moving into different states. I don't think that this necessarily implies that "The weather is fractal" or self-similar or whatever. The fractal statement is usually at best an approximation anyway, and at worst completely untrue :)
But don't trust me too much on this. All I know about fractal statistics is that it uses fractal function as it's distribution. Maybe someone else knows more about fractal statistics?
How much more light is reflected by the extra snow cover from the polar vortices?
After running around in circles and sqwaking tirelessly about the sky falling, the chicken littles have invented another reason to get even more scared that the sky is falling.
I say let's have some bbq chicken for lunch!
Kind of obvious that white reflects more solar energy than do dark colors. So the point of the story is a several year old point, less ice/snow the faster the poles warm in the sun.
Imagine the stories if the opposite were happening, global cooling. The panic.
Don't forget, all climate change is bad and man-made.
The Earth would have stayed exactly the same temperature forever if we were not here, nor would any animals have ever gone extinct. All days would have exactly the average temperature values and snowfall would never vary year to year.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Arctic and the Antarctic.
It's a good thing that the amount of ice in the Antarctic is growing.
Antarctic sea ice extent continues to track very high in January, reaching the second-highest monthly extent in the 36-year satellite monitoring record. New monthly extent records were set for each month between August and November, and December was tied for the record (within the limits of the precision).
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicen...
Though sometimes it can take 25,000 years before it returns.
To anyone that has been paying (not even very close) attention this is nothing new.
So the amount of asphalt has an impact also, right?
aka the WMD on credit hurry sundown gang of genocidal warloks & wizards. keep it to ourselves? http://www.globalresearch.ca/weather-warfare-beware-the-us-military-s-experiments-with-climatic-warfare/7561
Solution : Install a massive array of mirrors everywhere.
I also think it is prudent to act as if climate change were real.
Not if it involves spending billions or trillions to simply reduce CO2 emissions, when it could have gone to medical or space research.
Or even in fact to reducing REAL pollution.
There's no sign anything like a runaway greenhouse effect is going to happen. CO2 levels have continued to increase even as global average temperatures have hit a lull. In the simplified glass jar experiments that is not what happens, so pretty obviously the earth is lots more complex than a glass jar with CO2 inside. The current rate of ocean level rise is less than foot over the next 100 years, not exactly a panic situation.
Lets get back to spending money on real issues instead of a bogeyman created to funnel large sums of government money in the hands of special interest groups or creating new things for financial moguls to get rich off of (looking at you carbon credits).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
hard to resist the notion of considering ourselves in relation to one another & our new clear options
This doesn't happen to other users as far as I can tell. It has only recently started happening to me. If I separate two paragraphs with a blank line then press the Submit button, until recently the blank line would result in separate paragraphs above and below the blank line. But more recently all of my comments post as just one giant paragraph, which makes them hard to read. For example this particular comment should have five separate paragraphs but I expect it will post as just one. I don't see any option for it in my user options. Could it be because I cannot be bothered to update Firefox? That's because I grew weary of Mozilla.org pushing out frequent new versions without fixing any bugs that actually affected me.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
The best dye for that is Titanium White - Titanium Dioxide. However it is rather expensive; Zinc Oxide is good, not as good as Titanium Dioxide, but far cheaper. If we all painted our roofs white, I expect it would have a measurable effect.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
the skynet is spalling...
Please tell me the browser cache is screwing with me. Please tell me that my wife wants to have sex more often ( ok that isn't going to happen, I have a 12 and 15 year old) Do we really have Slashdot.org back?
My own log file analysis quite clearly tells me that to understand my overall site performance, I must average over seven-day periods. This because some visitors visit while at work, others in the evenings, others on the weekends. But the overall shape of the traffic periodic, with a period of seven days. This would be easy to do, but rather tedious: Go back over the last few months, since at least a month before the beta was announced, and enter into a spreadsheet the timestamp of each story, and how many comments it got. For extra credit, count how many comments had each possible moderation score, from -1 to 5. Now tally those up weekly, and compare the trends both before the Slashcott - february 10 through 17 - and during it. Eventually you'll get significant data for after the Slashcott as well. I haven't actually done this but my vague impression is that an insignificant number actually participated. I did. It was sorely tempting just to peek a little, being a nerd I need news that matters on a daily basis, but no, I never visited the site from the 10th until midnight this morning, on the 18th.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
The FUCKING ICE AGE was never going to be a permanent thing. There were no polar ice caps for MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS before the recent ice age. There are tropical fossils in the bedrock in NORTHERN CANADA.
God dammit. Can we please just finally accept the fact that the Earth is changing, realize that we are powerless to do anything about it, and start adapting to our changing environment like we should?
man made fake icebergs, painted white of course.
story:
slashdot fully support the Rothschilds bankers in making money off "global warming":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdqNds9pNuI
without the ice ocean water heat ups meaning it HAS to absorb heat.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
You've already failed, they don't have magnetic fields. All the oxygen in the world is useless for real habitation without a magnetic field. Not a place I would want to live, with cosmic rays flying through my brain all the time.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
And that, kind reader, is why we must outlaw meat.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
we are getting our first experiences with venusforming
FTFY
As ice melts a fraction of the impurities are left on the surface of the ice. When the summer melt melts all of the previous winters snow fall it reaches a layer that is slightly darker because it contains all the impurities of the previous year. If this process continues the ice will get steadily darker each fall as the melt goes further down the layers. Luckily this affect only occurs after the previous winters fall has completely melted. Unfortunately if we ever have a winter with a light snow fall or a very warm summer that melts through the previous winters accumulation quickly we are left with dark snow even earlier.
just pointing out how bad climate science is because they always fail to take the most logical things into account?
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
I've heard the 97% consensus and looked it up. First story I found is one of those quoted 97% said he didn't agree with the consensus. They read a paper he wrote and jumped to conclusions that were not in it and added him to the list of agreement.
So not only is there not consensus, they are lying about the amount as well. It turns out a very small number of scientists actually agreed to have their name added to that list, I think it was 11 of them.
If it were as you claim, why would you have to lie about it?
This.
Is.
A.
Test.
When I click on my username, a drop-down menu appears with "Options" and "Account". Actually both items permit me to set preferences; the posting format switch is under Account and not Options. That's a poor design.
But thank you!
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
Here are some statistics to show that, as pertains the Arctic, the Earth is measurably warming. I can tell you offhand that annual temperatures in Alaska have warmed by 3 degrees in the last century, and winter temperatures by 6 degrees. Southeastern Alaska is characterized by stable temperatures throughout the year, heavy precipitation, and a gradual transition from getting most of that as rain vs snow as one goes further north. Thus the warming is shall we say particularly noticeable to costal inhabitants. Another good measure of long-term climactic changes is the extent of permafrost.[pdf] Much of the ground in Alaska, and practically all the ground above the Arctic Circle is permanently frozen. Ice being less dense than water, if you happen to melt it, you create a subsidence and potentially a small lake. Either way, it's extremely disruptive to what little vegetation (or structures) there are that can survive on top of permafrost and hence easy to observe. Other good measures are the many glaciers, which I am told take thousands of years to form. 98% of all glaciers in Alaska are in retreat, and I mean visibly, over the last two decades. I lived in a fairly glacier-heavy area, and every successive spring brought more bare rock where once there was towering ice. The most dramatic of these was Columbia, of course, and I'm told that is not strongly linked to climate changes, but nine miles of ice melting in two decades is really an incredible pace.
I've recently been probing my ignorance of atmospheric science. I've found a couple fairly informative resources, including this more general introduction to the maths, and a more thorough examination of carbon dioxide's role as a greenhouse gas. It really doesn't take a great deal of learning to see that, aside from the observed warming trend, a higher partial pressure of carbon dioxide must result in increased heat transfer to the Earth's surface. There's really nowhere else for it to go. What happens from there is obviously a complex topic, but as you say, the glass jar experiments show pretty clearly that CO2 absorbs long-wave outgoing radiation. Where else do you imagine the heat goes?
Rather oddly, I don't know why but have some theories, remote work is available today that was not just a year ago.
If more of us worked remotely, and more business owners hired more workers, then there would be far less need to live near our places of work.
Then as sea levels rose, or it got too hot to live, or too dry to grow food, or so humid that rains caused constant flooding, both the remote workers and those who employ us could just go somewhere else.
The world is not as overpopulated as it looks. There are vast amounts of completely undeveloped land, with abundant resources of water and energy. The problem is that there are some countries that are very populous, that are poor agriculture, or poor education.
Were we to more equitably distribute our food, education and jobs, global warming would be far less of a problem, because it would be easier for more of the population to migrate to better climes.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
Claiming a 1 degree change as having tipped the point is a tad ridiculous...
Second, I'll argue that the goal of life on earth is to evolve, adapt and die. And don't give me any of that symbiotic bs. Symbiosis is merely a temporary precursor. The true goal should be the eradication and elimination of all life - there can only be one species.
Whether that will be humans, which shall learn to photosynthesize as well as metabolism their old in the form of soylent green, I do not know. My money is on the Octopus....but hey.
Can't be held responsible if you fail to evolve. :-P
Ask the "lead" author about Arctic albedo in the Mesozoic. You'll get an answer of the sort, "Mesozoic? Oh! You refer to 'Geologic Time.' Ah, well the Earth is only 4004 years old of course, so your question is moot, let alone ignorant."
I agree with point 1. Disagree with point 2. But will postulate a point 3. That we should strive for changes that reduce and eliminate pollution. Not because of some theory, but because it's the right thing to do - leave our children a clean world, and no need to have to send troops to the middle east.
space debris
Grant $$$
Lots of it...
Why?
Because globalists want a global tax, and CO2/Carbon Tax was as damn close as they've ever managed to come. Why do you want a global tax. Because, whomever you have to pay taxes too, you are subservient too. Taxes (aka Tribute)
Maybe we should stop wasting money studying CO2 and check and make sure our sun is okay. I'd hate to clean up all the CO2, only to find out we should of been building ships to get us off planet before the earth shattering ka-boom.
What exactly is keeping us from generating a magnetic field on a planetary scale?
Admittedly, these experiences are like one's first experiences with learning how to paint - finger painting and messy but with much larger existential consequences and no actual paint.
So it's more like "Baby's first handgun?" Let's hope we survive our first "test" here.
"did does not mean that CO2 is not pollution"
It's plant food. Fact: all plant life on earth, terrestrial and aquatic, is carbon dioxide rate-limited.
While you're looking this up (please do) look up what "CAM" plants are, too.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Be it as it may that nobody who isn't a mainstream climate scientist is allowed to hold any opinion on the subject, and that climate science trumps all other related fields like statistics or geology, it is still reasonable to question the proposed remedies and actions, perhaps more so when those remedies appear to be promoted by idiots.
Technology and social values progress anyway, but the idiots seem to think this can be made to happen to a schedule, and if it can't then they want to reincarnate as a virus to smite the selfish human race. Meanwhile people all over the world continue to make little improvements in technology and society and well, patience is a virtue. There is what's commonly known as the "third" world and the "second" world which are working gradually to improve and educate their girls, and get basic treatable diseases handled, so child mortality can come down, people can return to having two kids per family, and afford a bicycle to get to market, and so on. Doomsday didn't happen, they shifted the date into the future. Well nobody knows the future. Let's all just do our best to make the incremental improvements we can, and test and assess each innovation to see what value, if any, it really offers.
You're just picturing the high tide mark moving a foot higher up the beach, aren't you.
A foot higher in elevation (not distance), yes. Over 100 years.
You aren't picturing the fact that structures are generally built much higher above a beach than that, if only because of storm surges and the like. And again, 100 years to fix anything that will be a problem.
Sigh...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why does the temperature have rise a lot to cause an issue?
Because all of the supposed harm is caused by runway temperature rises.
Otherwise we just have a better climate overall which will lead to improved fro yields across the globe, which doesn't sound nearly as scary.
As more forests are chopped down to make way for more meat production
Which grow back faster in a warmer climate...
Remember the hole in the ozone layer? Did you think that wasn't a problem, should have it been ignored?
No because that was a REAL problem.
As noted the earth is a CO2 processing system. Even with abundant CO2 it simply encourages greater plant growth and makes up the difference.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This can be accomplished by NOT knee-jerk legislating away the world economies and the peoples freedoms based on zero facts. Right now there are only computer models and theory that happen to be proving not so correct. Lets get the sciences and the FACTS correct first without any embelishments, lying, falsifying data, using uncalibrated sensors improperly placed, on and on.
Because that's a contentious issue amongst the climate sciences at the moment, but here we have an internet gallileo that has apparently proven it is DEFINITELY going to a negative feedback, despite all the best evidence being "probably positive, a bit".
So let us know where your working out is.
TIA.
It predicted within 10% the climate sensitivity for the next 20 years.
Ok, now the arctic is too dark What a joke...these so called scientist will come up with a new one each day, in hopes the low information idiots will buy into it. Our schools are producing idiots that are very easily controlled.
The wait until the car drives off the cliff before thinking about putting on the brakes theorem .
See, it's this kind of "we've got to do *something* now!" thinking that's so destructive to rational thought.
So, instead you're adopting a position of "any possible action would be be expensive, therefore no problem exists?
Is this what you call "rational thought"?
If the proposed "fixes" for climate change were minor and otherwise insignificant then nobody would mind. But they are not. The proposed changes will be costly, both in terms of real money and in terms of people's quality of lives.
So, here's a solution. Rather than discussing other possible solutions and looking for ideas that won't be costly in terms of real money and quality of life... let's just attack the science, which doesn't cost much.
If you want someone to make a drastic change in their lives, you need drastically good evidence.
And we have drastically good evidence... except, when people make deliberate point of ignoring all evidence presented that disagrees with the position they've already taken, no amount of evidence, however good, can convince them.
Here's a question for you, by the way. What's your opinion of Murphy's Law? Do you read it as
"anything that can go wrong will go wrong," or do you have an alternate version, "when something can go wrong, we can count on some hitherto-unknown phenomenon cancelling out the known effect to make everything come out right."?
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The wait until the car drives off the cliff before thinking about putting on the brakes theorem .
I think it's actually the "at least show me that there's a cliff, and where it is so I can decide if I should stop or turn" theory.
OK. Here: Working Group I Report: The Physical Science Basis
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Can we get our science back, and move on to more important things, like actually studying real climate and weather...
Ah... This article actually reads kind of like a childish grade school rebuttal to "Change Deniers". Which seems to be the mentality of modern Climate Catastrophe devotees.
Articles like this are pure junk to researchers. If articles like this help form the foundation of your beliefs, then I'm sorry to say you're the warped one, eric the conspirator ...
There aint no Cimate change; its jus a Democrate roose!
So, Global Warming can alert the Earth's wobble! I knew it all along! As the Arctic loses ice, the Antarctic gains ice which jacks up the balance of the spinning globe. Which further jacks up the weather cycle. And, with enough change in the Earth's wobble, the orbit itself will change.
Oh, Al Gore and United Nations, where are you? Help us! Save us! We neeeed youuuuu! Ooooohhhhh. Alas. We. Are. Doomed.
Because all that soot from the far east and pavement over the entire world wasn't doing enough
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I doubt we are out of the :"ice age". Out of our lovely little inter-glacial maybe and back into the freezer? Hope not but the longest running and most accurate climate prediction was by Dr Libby and Dr Pandolfi in the 1970s. They've been accurate for close to 4 decades and what they predict next isn't warmth :(
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/1979-before-the-hockey-team-destroyed-climate-science/
Ever since the Panama connected north and south america we have been in a recurring ice age for 100k years with brief 15k inter-glacial nice warm weather. Open up Panama or stock up on some warm clothes.
There is one simple problem regarding human beings and the Planet we call Earth; there are way too many of us! And those that are here are so arrogant they feel they need to help the Planet. If you want the planet to remain 100% Natural, leave. Your very existence is obviously Unnatural in and of itself as far as the planet is concerned. We cannot exist and have no impact on the planet. That is a physical impossibility. As far as the Weather is concerned; it is spelled wrong. It should be correctly spelled Whether. We have about as much real knowledge about the Whether on our planet as we have of the inhabitants five miles deep in our oceans. What if every person in the continental US did not exhale for 24 hours? Would that be a worthwhile reduction in the carbon footprint our populace creates? And, if it is a worthwhile reduction, does that mean we just have to wipe out every animal, (Human or otherwise) in North America to save the planet? We should be stopping all forms of aerobic exercise of any kind for all reasons. That would reduce our carbon footprint as a Nation. Anything that gets us breathing hard increases our carbon dioxide output. You fix our Global population explosion, and you will find that our possible impact on "The Planet Earth" will be greatly reduced to the point of being a non-issue. It is unbelievable how arrogant we can be. Mother Nature, and The Planet Earth are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. They have been doing so for far longer than our species has been here.
Looking on the bright side - thanks to all our wanton climate changing industrial activity and glacial public acceptance of the situation, we are getting our first experiences with terraforming.
You're kidding, right? The only thing we are affecting here is a few degrees of temperature, and you're equating that to "terraforming"? On top of that, it has taken *decades of activity of millions of people and vast industrialisation* to achieve *a few degrees of change*. No, we are not doing terraforming. We are just fucking with the atmosphere a bit. It's not even enough to wipe us out, or make Earth "unliveable". It's just enough to wipe out our food production and cause millions - perhaps billions - of people to starve or be killed in resource wars, etc. until we adjust to the new climate conditions.
That's not terraforming, that's just another day in human civilisation.
If we are beyond the tipping point, there is no point trying to ameliorate our CO2 contributions. We should devote all available resources into surviving the inevitable disasters.
Assigning blame is an exercise best left to the survivors.
--
Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. -- George Carlin
Physics.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!