Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Said To Cut Windows Price 70% For Low Cost Devices
kc123 writes with this except from Bloomberg News: "Microsoft is cutting the price of Windows 8.1 by 70 percent for makers of low-cost computers and tablets as they try to fend off cheaper rivals like Google's Chromebooks, people familiar with the program said. Manufacturers will be charged $15 to license Windows 8.1 and preinstall it on devices that retail for less than $250, instead of the usual fee of $50. The discount will apply to any products that meet the price limit, with no restrictions on the size or type of device."
Now all we need is Windows retail to be a more realistic price too.
If they pay me $15, I'll take a copy. Don't want it on any device I own or use though...
On y va, qui mal y pense!
One unwanted side effect I can see coming from this, is that most Windows devices will become either very cheap (to meet the price guideline) or very expensive. If you build a device costing $500, the cheaper devices are not going to be that much lower in spec than you because they didn't have to eat a more expensive Windows license.
When I read this story, I was excited because I thought it meant cheaper Windows for home users. I wouldn't mind running Windows 8 in Parallels on my mac, or even dual boot to it to play games. But the price for consumers is just too high for me to do that. They could get a lot of casual Windows sales and remain relevant but for some reason, they just don't seem interested in doing so.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They chased Google with Bing. They've chased Apple with the Zune, their music store, and their Windows Phone. They put the name Windows on everything - their cloud, their phone, their ARM tablet, and their regular PC OS, even though all those products are different. They are a MESS. Good luck to Satya - he will need it.
Microsoft Becoming Desperate to Sell Window 8.1
Microsoft Losing Badly in Tablet Market
Chromebooks Out of Microsoft's Extortionary Reach
Microsoft Discovers Battery Life Is Very Important On Tablets
Microsoft Is Getting "Scroogled"
Microsoft Just Got the Facts
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
In my opinion, they _so_badly_ want to be the One Ring.
I hope I live to see the day they are just a historical Wikipedia entry.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
Just because Apple includes the price in their PC doesn't mean it's free. It is not free if you want to run OS X on a non-Mac PC.
I would love to see Windows on BeagleBone Black. It would show that even cheap devices get the love of Windows and open the Windows store. Also it would look great for kids to experiment with Windows on a $45 computer. At the very least Microsoft could release that micro-kernel version of Windows for hobby/development devices and open up Visual Studio for development.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I think most people would pay 15 just to not have to downgrade to 8 if they were forced to make a choice.
If Intel starts packaging cheap Windows with their CPUs then this would be a major boon to the home PC builder demographic.
This is Window 8 they're talking about. Most people would pay more to NOT get a copy with their CPU.
It participated in the spectrum auction and made the telcos pay near market rates. It bought dark strands of the fiber network after the market crash to protect itself from local last mile ISPs from holding it for ransom.
It talked to WhatsApp, made an offer of 10 billion with lots of poison pills. It set the floor at 10 billion, leaving all the smaller players aside. It knew Facebook was despo and will buy WhatsApp, but it boosted the price and made Facebook pay dearlym 35% of cash on hand!. Please disregard the 19 billion dollar figure. That is based on overpriced FB stock price. That Facebook will be strapped for money in the coming year for other aquisitions is the key victory for Google.
WhatsApp's 450 million users includes millions who create new accounts every year when their old free for the first year accounts expire. Those users are penny, nay, paisa pinchers who use WhatsApp to avoid international texting charges between India and the Gulf countries and Singapore. They use WhatsApp to broadcast their texts to N recipients paying 1 outgoing text charge. In India incoming calls and texts must be free by law. Only the sender pays. 2 dollar per user? You can't chisel 2 rupees out of them. Anyway WhatsApp has no advantage when it comes to smartphones. Its explosive growth was due to it being the portal to the intenet for dumb phones via SMS. That market is done.
Unorganized linux tried to scare Microsoft with netbooks. Microsoft hit back and evenutally killed the netbooks market, though it had to extend XP's life to do so. But Google resurrected the netbooks markets, and is forcing Microsoft to engage in price war again. Given the drop dead simplicity of the Chromebook, and low cost by eschewing the bells and whistles of the tablet market, it is very difficult to see anyone make any serious money off them. But it hampers the others from raising their profit margins.
Google plays the strategic game stupendously well.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
MSFT, the only company that actually charges money for a consumer OS.
Where can I download my free copy of OSX?
"While the regular Windows list price was $50, some of the largest global computer makers paid closer to $30 after incentives such as marketing funds provided by Microsoft, the people said."
The article says there won't be any additional discounts beyond the $15 for those products, but this still means a number of manufacturers will be paying closer to $30 for other products.
Some time ago there was an article on why Dell dialed down their Linux PC offerings, and why there wasn't much of a rebate (if any) on Linux PCs vs Windows PCs. It said that the average cost of a single customer service call to Dell was higher than what they paid Microsoft for OEM Windows license, and the Linux PCs got a lot more customer services calls, especially related to device/driver/software compatibility.
Not to question Microsoft's business model, but why are they doing this. Windows is their core product. Everything they do is based on people buying windows and then office. This is ".com" logic, where they take a profitable product and then make a business model that is cheaper and makes no money. I don't use Microsoft products unless I have to, but this is not a recipe for success. Why don't they make something that people want? Is this a way to inflate license sales of windows 8 to consumer goods because manufacturers will buy more licenses for the same money?
...to test the Windows performance of Java programs I write on Linux.
I was surprised that Microsoft was charging $50 per copy to the OEMs. That's quite expensive.
Stop being assholes.
$15.00 across the board, you want fater adoption, let us at home pay $15 for it. Because at that price point, I'll give it another shot, hell I'll even tolerate some of the issues at that price point.
At $199 no way in hell.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
These devices still need the expensive storage, memory and processor required to support Windows. Competitors don't. They are limited to the peripherals Microsoft supports. Competitors aren't. OEMs of Windows devices have to share design plans with their direct competitor Microsoft for platform testing. Makers of alternatives don't. Platforms that qualify have a maximum price, alternatives don't. These are still important issues.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Where can I download my free copy of OSX?
right here.
They do require that you have an existing Intel Mac to put it in and a free App Store account to download it with, but I paid $0.00 to upgrade my MBP with it.
Hell, I can even download the source code for almost all of it in one spot.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Still comes with a horridly insecure browser integrated into the OS that is incompatible with their previous browsers and enterprise web apps and cannot be removed. Still prohibits preinstall of alternative browsers, search engines. Still prefers Outlook.com sign in. Is still Windows. Seems like they still have a few issues to work through.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I was going to post the same thing but you laid it out perfectly. If you think about component costs in a $500 system, $35 buys you either better parts or something you wouldn't have otherwise, and like you say there is no margin on middle tier PC's.
That's why I think it will mean more focus on either $250- systems, or $1000+ systems.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't see the source code for Aqua or iTunes anywhere in that link.
Speaking from experience, you absolutely don't want iTunes to use... for study, however, an example of how not to do things?
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Where can I download my free copy of OSX?
right here.
They do require that you have an existing Intel Mac to put it in and a free App Store account to download it with,
That's not exactly free, is it?
As in Beer or Speech?
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
They do require that you have an existing Intel Mac
Not only that you have an intel mac, but it must be already running OS X, which you bought when you bought your Mac. Therefore it's not free.
As in Beer or Speech?
Considering this is Apple we are talking about, it goes without saying that it's not "free as in speech", doesn't it? Or have they suddenly embraced GPL and I missed it?
It's also not "free as in Beer" either. Otherwise I wouldn't be required to purchase their product first.
So, it's not free at all.
As much as I'm pleased to (for the newer gear) not have to fuck around with innumerable license keys and so on, Apple licensing is actually obnoxiously inflexible, and very consumer oriented. At work, I've become the mac-wrangler-by-default because most of the rest of the department are Microsofties from way back. Fine by me, more variety, more experience, all good. And the desktop and laptop gear is pretty good. Impressive industrial design, not too many freaky issues (though opendirectory is still a pale shadow of ActiveDirectory and Group Policies. Those things can be a byzantine mess; but they sure are powerful).
However, there are some rough edges: You need to buy new gear to replace or expand an existing lab/laptop rollout? Well kid, I'm afraid that Apple's OS support is as follows: The earliest supported OS is whatever the machine shipped with. The last supported OS is the version before the version that has your model in the 'installer will refuse to try' list. Oh, you wanted to expand a lab running OSX version N-1 without upgrading the entire lab to version N? That's so sad, good luck.
Even more vexingly, Apple has largely left the server business (they don't have a single device with redundant PSUs, their 'preferred' OSX Server config is a mac mini with two HDDs); but they steadfastly refuse to simply sell licenses that 'bless' VM instances(not running on physical macs) to run OSX Server. For $1000, they'll ship me their little mini, with its two laptop drives and OSX Server; but they don't even offer a 'keep your shiny little toy and enjoy the higher margins, just let me spin an OSX VM on my institution's preexisting, high-reliability, physically-distributed, high-uptime, SAN-backed, etc, etc. VM infrastructure. We have the cores, we have the RAM (with ECC and stuff, crazy!), we have the SAN, with the fancy disk monitoring and redundancy features. Why won't you take our damn money?
I don't see the source code for Aqua or iTunes anywhere in that link.
To Apple's credit, they do release more than they are legally obliged to (unlike the assorted assholes who will fight the SFLC to the last man over some penny-ante hack to a GPL2 package in a router probably worth less than $20 of their lawyer's hourly rate, for reasons that defy human understanding).
Of course, Apple is a practically canonical example of the (not bad, certainly pragmatic, and arguably a lot healthier than doing a lot of dumb reinventing of the wheel) 'Use OSS to lower the cost of providing production-quality implementations of commodified components, keep your actual selling points locked up tight.' strategy.
The market rate for 'eh, mostly BSD' is approximately nothing, unless it comes with expertise or customization, the market rate for everything you need to build something interoperable with OSX? You could probably buy a collection of small dusty countries for that...
iTunes is a grotesque abortion, which would make access to data on the necessary protocols and interfaces to get your non-fucked software talking to components that expect iTunes useful.
Thankfully it matters less with iDevices, now that those all have network connections of their own; but it's slightly tragic how much remains locked up from that 'iTunesU' fad, where Apple managed to convince a bunch of schools that the best podcasts are ones that you can only get to with Apple software, and which are only useful on the go with Apple hardware....
Linux will inherit the Earth. Tremble, M$ Office paperclip.
Not that it's a real problem, Linux is a decent embedded OS(arguably markedly worse than some designed for the purpose at Hardcore Embedded Stuff; but familiarity and smooth scaling from fairly tiny embedded systems to supercomputers counts for a lot); but the 'ChromeOS' is something of a historical irony:
Remember, back in '95, when Marc Andreessen threatened that Netscape would reduce Windows to a "poorly debugged set of device drivers"? That struck MS as plausible enough that they squished Netscape as hard as they could and (slowly) got off their ass on IE development; but look upon ChromeOS, and observe the OS reduced to a set of device drivers by the browser..
Linux will inherit the Earth. Tremble, M$ Office paperclip.
The hilarious thing about this is that there's someone as MS who has decided that the best way to approach the problem of Android/ChromeOS taking their market share is to... compete on price. Because that's going to work isn't it?
This you do realize isn't like giving away limes or quecats which cost something to produce per unit. Microsoft doesn't spend more then the cost of printing a few windows license stickers plus patent fees which aren't too much if they don't include native mpeg2 and other expensive patents.
Also, the value of an OS are 1. what unique things does it offer 2. What market Share does it represent.
1. is obvious and could be anything really, even things like being a good free alternative, etc.
2. If you don't have market share you don't get developers and admins. Which means you don't have users because there is no software. Developers won't developer because there is are no users. etc. You need a strong enough number 1 to break this chicken and egg cycle. But this cycle can also break if someone steals your market share.
They did the same with netbooks. Discounted to $15, then used the $15 price to force the OEM to reduce the specs. Once they got the specs to the point of garbage and sales started to drop off they raised the price a bit, rinse and repeat until the entire market is gone. That's what happened to netbooks, incredibly popular until MS deliberately destroyed the hardware requirements so that no on wanted them anymore. Everyone that bought a netbook and hated it? That was Microsoft ensuring they were underpowered pieces of garbage.
The best tricks are the old tricks.
Cost of ownership is more than the price of the actual software. Microsoft isn't out of the woods yet, but don't kid yourself if you think they don't have the staff, support, and mindshare to roll out something that lots of people want to use.
Google is a very casual operation with regard to the software they provide to consumers. Android is rather fragmented now, and you only see ChromeOS being sold on the lowest-price but also lowest-end hardware on a retailer's shelf. And Google's history of abandoning projects that don't pan out makes many people nervous.
Also, the VM model they've adopted for Android will allow for lots of other vendors to produce VMs to run their Apps. I could forsee Microsoft producing a 'Gaming VM' that allows all the nice little games in Googles App Store to run in sandboxes on Windows.
I have actual experience now running Windows 8. Windows 8 is to Windows 8.1 as Windows 98 was to Second Edition. We will see how far the parallels follow.
Metro is what you give your computer illiterate aunt, with the programs she will be using as big shiny buttons. Anybody more 'literate' than that can use other methods.
If the problems with security in iOS, and the fragmentation/security issues with Android continue, people will go back to the 'doze.
RT is gonna die, and fast. There are 8" Windows tablets in the stores now with x86 processors and full 8.1 for under $300. The whole purpose of RT has evaporated.
I tried installing Irix on my SparcStation IPX and it just sat there and laughed. I guess I'll try my AIX install media next.
If the problems with security in iOS, and the fragmentation/security issues with Android continue, people will go back to the 'doze.
Yeah. 'Cause it's not like Windows has any fragmentation and security issues.
After using Windows 8.1 at work, all I can say is - I want my money back
You're doing it wrong. For pure Unix, you need to start with a SysV source license. It's a little more work that way, but the results should be more than worth it! :D
Of course, it might be a bit tricky to get your hands on one at the moment, since owner Novell had a tiny falling out with exclusive license reseller SCO. Still, you might be able to pick one up on the second-hand market. I understand that Daimler-Chrysler has one they're no longer using--at least according to their response to SCO's subpoena.
Google plays the strategic game stupendously well.
Google TV, Buzz, Google+, Nexus Q, Google Wave... etc. etc.
And ads are still 90%+ of the business...
You should try a career at revisionist history.
This space for rent.
Free as in beer... Apple has wisely realized that most users care more about the user experience, and having the system meet their needs, then they do about the nebulous freedom RMS says they need to care about more than these the actual, you know, usefulness of their device. Besides, running OSX on non-Apple hardware is a violation of the software's EULA...
One of the key purposes of Windows 8 was to start raising hardware requirements. Laptops under $250 shouldn't be part of the Windows ecosystem, they shouldn't exist. Microsoft should be glad to lose them. This price cut is going to give a huge advantage to devices under $250 and create a void between $250-400. Bad, bad inconsistent.... If anything they should be doing the opposite. Make Window 8 $150 on cheap devices and maybe free or even subsidize expensive devices. They need to drive their customers up market after almost two decades of driving them downmarket.
Google TV, Buzz, Google+, Nexus Q, Google Wave... etc. etc.
And ads are still 90%+ of the business...
They don't hit a home run every time they swing the bat, nor did Steve Jobs, Scott McNealy, or Steve Ballmer. But Google knows when to cut their losses and move on; Jobs was also very good at that, McNealy and Ballmer not so much. It's too early to tell with Zuckerburg, but the GP presents a good argument that he's in the process of blowing it.
I have owned a Linux PC shop for 15 years, and have never once either purchased or sold a copy of Windows. Yet, two or three times per year, I get served a C&D insisting I stop selling PCs because I haven't paid for the copy of Windows on them, and threatening criminal charges if I don't.
I've been hauled into court twice, and have had my store ransacked by BSA thugs with cooperation from Law Enforcement a number of times over the years.
This is the kind of shit you're supporting if you buy a Windows box.
I see you've established a career in missing the point. First, the list of dropped Google products is a non sequitur when talking about Google's strategies against its rivals. It's like dismissing Apple's iOS moves because they stopped making the Cube years ago. Second, Google not caring about making a big profit on a product can be a feature, not a bug, if doing so cuts their rivals off at their knees. Like the aforementioned examples of Chromebooks and Google Docs.
A cut in the price of Windows will improve the margins on devices like Dell's Venue 8 Pro. But I suspect they were already getting a price much lower than $50. It will also mean a resurgence in low-end Windows laptops, basically netbook redux - basically take a Chromebook platform and put in more flash memory.
Regarding the selling of VM licenses: Apple is primarily a hardware company. Yes, they make software, but that's just to make the hardware work better and look shinier, and thus more appealing to consumers. The fact that you can "only get that software on pricy Apple hardware" is, arguably, the major pillar propping up the sales of their well-made, but outrageously pricy hardware. The "Hackintosh" phenomenon has already demonstrated that, if you're not concerned about slick industrial design (or EULA compliance), it's completely possible to build a working OSX computer for half what Apple charges for similar hardware specs.
Making a version of OSX that would run on VM's would necessarily require the OS to not perform the "Am I being installed on blessed Apple hardware?" check. Setting up a Hackintosh would be trivial, compared to the current level of effort required. Apple likely fears that someone would actually mount a serious (and potentially successful) legal challenge to the "only run it on Apple-branded HW" clause of their EULA. If that clause of the license were invalidated, the Hackintosh floodgates, including "store-bought" variants would be opened, and Apple's Mac sales would be eviscerated. I imagine Apple has decided that ceding the server market to competitors is a small price to pay for the continued sales (and fat margins) on their consumer machines.
When you have a monopoly, you can hold prices high, and that means that you provide 1 purchase and 5 pirate copies.
When the price is reasonable $15.00, users would rather pay, than pirate. It is an affordable rate. Perhaps that will result in a 1 to 2 ration instead of a 1 to 5 ratio.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
How is Microsoft a Rival though? They absolutely dominate the ad market. Microsoft has almost no presence in the ad market. Chromebooks are a novel experiment but I don't see them threatening Microsoft in the slightest. After all you can run Chrome on a Windows 8 device (for $15 now even).
I see GoogleDocs as an effort to grab some stragglers but it doesn't seem to be a big money maker or a large enough investment on Google's part to warrant Microsoft's attention. After all the Office division is still showing growing sales.
I would say attributing these as efforts to hurt their competitors both overestimates the harm that's been done and the intentions beyond the obvious attempts at a second trick for their pony.
Google can't sit on their laurels. If 90% of their products aren't significant cash cows then their ad business can't indefinitely fund their experiments. Eventually someone is going to knee cap their adwords revenue. They need more sources of income. It might look like a strategic "win" to pressure their "Competitors" but Google needs another big win.
Go Google!