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Pro-Vaccination Efforts May Be Scaring Wary Parents From Shots
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Thomas Kienzle reports for the Associated Press on a study which found public health campaigns touting vaccines' effectiveness and debunking the links between autism and other health risks might actually be backfiring, and convincing parents to skip the shots for their kids. 'Corrections of misperceptions about controversial issues like vaccines may be counterproductive in some populations,' says Dr. Brendan Nyhan. 'The best response to false beliefs is not necessarily providing correct information.' In the study, researchers focused on the now-debunked idea that the vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella (or MMR) caused autism. Surveying 1,759 parents, researchers found that while they were able to teach parents that the vaccine and autism were not linked, parents who were surveyed who had initial reservations about vaccines said they were actually less likely to vaccinate their children after hearing the researchers messages. Researchers looked at four methods designed to counter the myth (PDF) that the MMR vaccine can cause autism. They gave people either information from health authorities about the lack of evidence for a connection, information about the danger of the three diseases the MMR vaccine protects against, pictures of children who had one of those three diseases, or a story about an infant who almost died from measles.
At the study's start, the group of parents who were most opposed to vaccination said that on average, the chance they would vaccinate a future child against MMR was 70 percent. After these parents had been given information that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism, they said, on average, the chance they would vaccinate a future child was only 45 percent — even though they also said they were now less likely to believe the vaccine could cause autism. Vaccination rates are currently high, so it's important that any strategies should focus on retaining these numbers and not raise more concerns, tipping parents who are willing to vaccinate away from doing so. 'We shouldn't put too much weight on the idea that there's some magic message out there that will change people's minds.'"
At the study's start, the group of parents who were most opposed to vaccination said that on average, the chance they would vaccinate a future child against MMR was 70 percent. After these parents had been given information that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism, they said, on average, the chance they would vaccinate a future child was only 45 percent — even though they also said they were now less likely to believe the vaccine could cause autism. Vaccination rates are currently high, so it's important that any strategies should focus on retaining these numbers and not raise more concerns, tipping parents who are willing to vaccinate away from doing so. 'We shouldn't put too much weight on the idea that there's some magic message out there that will change people's minds.'"
This recessive gene would be removed from the gene pool in one or two iterations of viral infections.
People need to be educated in a general sense to evaluate this stuff rationally. If you take a bunch of uneducated redneck hicks and have an authority figure tell them how it should be they're going to be suspicious because they don't have the tools to evaluate the claims and for most of their life authority figures have FUCKED them.
This study basically says that people get pissy when you prove them wrong, making them dig in their heels even though they may grudgingly agree with you.
That bit of information reduces the problem to a much, much easier one to deal with than the previous hypothesis of willful ignorance - These people just need us to give them a way to save face.
Disclaimer - I write what I write next as someone who loathes government intervention. But just make vaccinations mandatory. Simple as that. No more BS opting out on religious grounds, no more opting out because Jenny said not to, no more trusting in herd immunity while actively undermining it. Get your kids vaccinated, period, end of story; don't like it, too bad.
That way, no one needs to "back down" - Parents can gleefully shrug their shoulders, swear at Uncle Sam while quietly breathing a sigh of relief, and we can all move on as though none of this ever happened.
The more effort you put into telling people something is safe and the more visible this effort is, the more people will naturally question just why they're having to make this effort.
When you order a burger from McDonalds you probably wouldn't be too happy if worker who gives it to you said "don't worry, the chances of you having got a burger that has been spat on are tiny so it is very unlikely I spat in it! Enjoy your meal!"
We live in an age of propaganda, mendaciousness, and manipulation. PR-men are literally in charge of public policy. A positive public information campaign reliant on trust is impossible in our present circumstances.
May the Maths Be with you!
Jenny McCarthy needs to be impoverished and imprisoned for the huge disservice she has done the human race.
Translation: I'm a fucking moron who fears and doesn't understand science.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I believe that one factor (don't have any idea how significant) may be that recent revelations entirely unrelated to vaccines have caused an increased suspicion amongst the population about anything the government tells us. It's become almost a meme that whatever the government says, the opposite is likely to be true.
(I'm not saying that's actually the case, just saying that may be what people are feeling.)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Doesn't saying that just give you a warm fuzzy about hiring me as a babysitter?
I agree with this. Scientists are becoming so unbelievably political that it gets more and more difficult to trust that they actually have your best interests (or even the truth) at heart.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Sometimes mockery is also required. Responding to lies with truth can easily create the impression of a debate of two respectable sides, when the more accurate perception is that one has arguments and the other has cheating and manipulation. In that situation, it's not enough to just point out the errors: They must be mocked without mercy to make it clear that the position is not only wrong, but so wrong as to be laughable and not worthy of any respect.
That stupid bitch.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
People do not trust science. They are more apt to believe that the numbers are made up fill some agenda.
On the Right you got them having issues with Climate change and evolution. They see it as fake science made by their opponents to force their agenda of taking things away from people and a push towards atheism, figure with "God" out of the way they can push their agenda with impunity.
On the left you have GMO food, and non-organics food. All the science points that there isn't any danger to these foods, however they will stick to their guns as the science is obviously have been altered by corporations as to keep their profit up.
In short if you tell someone that they are wrong, that means you are part of some conspiracy to hide the truth.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Translation: I'm a fucking moron who fears and doesn't understand science.
You know, I don't usually support insults like this, but SuperKendall's post shows such a level of willful ignorance and misinformation that I think in this case MightyMartian isn't actually insulting him but stating a fact.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Actually, uhm. They're pretty fucking lethal and debilitating. One of my friends has a sibling who's been hospitalized for a big chunk of the last six months from whooping cough, which exists today only because of anti-vaccine nutjobs.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
WTF? So AGW is just an unscientific cult, foisted on us by evil scientists? Y'all forgot to include the scientists lying about evolution, and aborshuns, and gay marriage and other things the bible says is true. Talk about your ignorant rednecks...
Generally flu shots aren't for you. They're for the people you hang out with.
I'm a healthy early 30something guy. I can get the flu, I've had the flu, I made it out just fine. I also only hang out with people in the similar demographic, I'm psychologically allergic to kids so I'll never be seen around one, my friends overall don't have kids, my grandparents are in another country. There's a small chance I may get the flu and before I notice, I transmit it to someone at the restaurant, but realistically, it won't happen.
Now, if you're the parent of 3 toddlers, have your 80-90 years old grandparents coming every other day to help out, 2 of your toddlers go to daycare all the time... you could seriously get someone killed if you get the flu and spread it around. Thats why you want the shot. If its not the case? Sure, skip. The flu won't kill you.
I disagree. They way I see it, you have a political party populated by folks who view reality as merely an opposing (and invalid) viewpoint.
Due to the US's 2-part system and the "if you're not for us, you must be against us" line of thinking, anyone who doesn't agree with the viewpoints of such a political must be part of the opposing side.
It's not the scientists that are politicizing science, it's the science-deniers.
Tens of thousands of people die every single year from flu. My wife is an ICU nurse and watches people die every year from it. Yes you might be healthy and perfectly capable of handling the flu virus. But when you get it, for the three or four days after you are infected and before major symptoms set in you are spreading virii around like typhoid Mary. And when you go to the grocery store and stand in line next to the guy that just had a transplant and is on immune surpressors you might just kill them.
Sometimes getting the vaccine isn't about you. So next time you get the flu spend the time thinking about all the people you interacted with while you were a walking virus factor and wonder just how many of them your stupidity killed.
I'm sorry, but you're a fucking moron. There's really no polite way to put it. The flu is traditionally the most lethal contagious disease in world history; more people have been killed by it than pretty much anything else. That's because nasty variants trigger a cytokine storm which is a positive feedback loop where your body kills itself because it thinks something is killing it. Even worse, those storms are most dangerous in people with a strong immune system. That's right: the bad flus kill young, healthy people in much greater proportion than those with weak immune systems.
Go ahead and brag at how tough you are at resisting the flu. While doing so, pray to your god that you never get a bad one and join the ranks of millions who've died of it over the years.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I've heard of a pig in a poke, but never one up a chimney. And I know about these things.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I think it is less about not trusting government specifically, and more about trusting vague sources that come with plausible sounding explanations.
Look at the hand waving BS about vaccinations, they are almost always centered around a grain of truth, a grain that is then added to and changed. Some great examples are "mercury" in vaccines or "hormones" in bovines.
The thing is, it is always presented as something "they" don't want you to know about, or are claiming is safe, so when you hear from an expert the 'truth' which is a) this is a real thing (just like they said!) and b) its safe (just like they said you would say!) - they have already been innoculated (is that a pun here?) against the truth.
Of course you think its safe, you were looking at all those fake studies done by researchers in the pocket of big pharma/big agriculture etc.
Certainly there are coverups and conspiracies and things people in power don't want us to know about, but most of those things can be much more complicated and messy.... people like a nice simple story...one they can remember and repeat.
OTOH the answer here is nothing really new. There were some surveys that asked people about vaccination programs. What they did was take the same information, same number of lives saved, same number of deaths etc, and wrote them up in two different ways: one which emphasized the decision based on lives saved, and another which emphasized the decision based on lives lost.
What was the outcome? Quite simply, people were more moved to support the vaccination program based on figures which put it in terms of avoiding losses than when put in terms of lives saved.
This seems like a very similar case. Talk all you want about benefits and safety on their own; you get people's attention by focus on losses. In the end, I think that is why the anti-vaccination stories tend to be more powerful: They focus on (imaginary) losses and avoiding those losses.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
On one side: Miss October '93. On the other: a million scientists, an airplane, and a hypodermic needle.
Caption: "If you trust SCIENCE to keep your kids safe when flying in an airplane at 600 MPH, five miles off the ground, why don't you trust it about medicine?"
Sub-caption: "Would you rather your kids be autistic, or DEAD?"
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
This message brought to you by the American Institute for Homeopathy, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Vaccination Choice, Climate Change Denial, AIDS denial, Rejection of Evolution and Chiropractors.
And if you provide supporting evidence of your point, that's obviously part of the scam too; I mean, if you were right you wouldn't need it. Whereas if there's no evidence of a conspiracy, that's proof that there's a cover-up.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That's bullshit, frankly. It's possible to understand the science despite not having done the research and experimentation personally. SuperKendall's pretty much 100% full of shit.
No, it has everything to do with people unable to think critically about the messages being directed towards them and choosing to place all blame on the government, right or wrong.
In Belgium certain vaccinations are mandatory. Well they aren't mandatory as such, but your kids won't be able to go to daycare, school, sports clubs etc. without them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Congress?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
We have a vaccination against stupid, it's called "a liberal education"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
" From nutritional advice"
dactiors have been giveg the follwong advice for decades: Exercise and eat better.
"the AGW cult,"
Ah. You just assume scientist are wrong when the data goes against your narrative and then project that to others.
"But science is now so intertwined in politics "
it isn't, but again, they are telling you things you don't like, so ad hom away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Vaccines have had numerous concerns over many decades, so the latest batch does not make people sinister it makes them cynical and skeptical. Start here.
As much as vaccines help the majority of people, other people have been crippled and killed by the same vaccines. The latest MMR vaccine is linked to a couple hundred (237 last I looked) of narcolepsy, the latest polio vaccine is linked to numerous deaths and various levels of paralysis. Sometimes these are blamed on contamination in the vaccine, and other times we have no explanation.
If you are a parent and know about the potential for harm, you may not wish to give your kid a vaccine. Especially for something generally not life threatening like chicken pox.
Why not educate people to both sides of the argument and let them make an educated choice?
There is middle ground on normally nonlife threatening diseases like chickenpox and the average flu bug, the problem is dumbasses that won't vaccs their kids against anything for fear they might be one of the couple hundred out of billions that would have a reaction then insted their kid get a disease and spread it to the immunocompromised that genuinely cannot get vaccinated. They are endangering their children and society over a risk lower than the odds of you getting hit by car tomorrow on the way to drop them at school yet they do drive their children.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Maybe it's the part where he makes unsubstantiated claims of bias and corruption against every scientist ever?
You only have to look back through his post history to see it all stems from his personal (and equally unsubstantiated) belief that AGW is a massive, money-grabbing hoax that all those "so-called scientists" have foisted on the unsuspecting public, no doubt at the prompting of the current liberal gubbermint (you know, despite similar research for 30 years). Seems clear to me that the cynicism resulting from climate science not saying what he wants to hear has spilled over into science in general.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
As much as vaccines help the majority of people, other people have been crippled and killed by the same vaccines.
True but the rates of serious, life changing reactions to the vaccine are far, far smaller than the risk of serious, life changing complications from a disease like measles that can leave you blind brain damaged or 0.3% of the time dead. This horrible consequences of diseases is why we invented vaccines and why they were so widely adopted. The problem is that vaccines are now a victim of their own success because nobody gets measles now so there is no understanding of how horrible these diseases can be.
If we want to persuade people to get vaccinated educate them about what the disease the vaccine protects against will do to them. The choice is not whether or not they want to risk the vaccine the choice is whether they want to risk the disease or the vaccine. It's a lot easier to judge a relative risk like that than some nebulous promises that the vaccine is pretty safe.
A variant on this middle ground is when a problem is found. My daughter is current on all vaccinations but my son had immediate swelling in his head as a baby right after his first vaccination. His fontanel (aka the soft spot on a baby's head) went from slightly dimpled to slightly curved outwards and stayed that way for several months. For him, there won't be any additional vaccinations. On the whole vaccinations are helpful and I support them. However when you start getting evidence of being a "rare case" where complications exist it doesn't make sense to continue. I feel that if the vaccination debate becomes more nuanced rather than just being either 100% for or against vaccinations it would be helpful to everyone. Vaccinations are not a one size fits all but rather a one size fits most. If effort was made identifying the cases where problems exist then I think more people will be onboard with the idea.
Yeah that's a real credible-looking source you've got there.
I suppose that's true in some sense, thanks to fabulous iron lung technology. Ain't science grand?
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
The numbers show that the Chicken Pox vaccine should only be used on adults, yet when someone wants to skip that vaccine, they get the
information from health authorities about the lack of evidence for a connection, information about the danger of the three diseases the MMR vaccine protects against, pictures of children who had one of those three diseases, or a story about an infant who almost died from measles
speech with chicken pox replaced with Measles. In other words, they are lied to by the various health organizations. It is no wonder that people become more skeptical when they are being told horror stories that if not always outright lies, are often half truths designed to make them make decisions out of emotional fear instead of reason.
I have been saying for a long time that the pro-vaccine people are their own worst enemies when it comes to convincing people to get vaccinated. For example, the MMR vaccine. Instead of trying to convince people that Wakefield had been discredited, (which looks mighty suspicious on it's face), they should be pointing out to the parents that don't want the MMR vaccine that Wakefield did not recommend against Measles vaccines. He just advised against the mixed vaccine. Then offer individual vaccines for the same diseases that Wakefield did not accuse of causing autism. And outright stop telling parents that chicken pox will kill their children when a home cooked meal is more than 3 times more likely to kill your kid than if no one ever got immunized against the disease. Getting caught lying removes all credibility.