Slashdot Mirror
How the NSA Plans To Infect 'Millions' of Computers With Malware
Advocatus Diaboli sends news from The Intercept about leaked documents which show that the NSA is significantly expanding its efforts to build an automated system to compromise computers remotely. From the article:
"The implants being deployed were once reserved for a few hundred hard-to-reach targets, whose communications could not be monitored through traditional wiretaps. But the documents analyzed by The Intercept show how the NSA has aggressively accelerated its hacking initiatives in the past decade by computerizing some processes previously handled by humans. The automated system – codenamed TURBINE – is designed to 'allow the current implant network to scale to large size (millions of implants) by creating a system that does automated control implants by groups instead of individually.' In a top-secret presentation, dated August 2009, the NSA describes a pre-programmed part of the covert infrastructure called the 'Expert System,' which is designed to operate 'like the brain.' The system manages the applications and functions of the implants and 'decides' what tools they need to best extract data from infected machines."
Shouldn't somebody go to jail for this?
to pull out my old C64, dust it off and find my floppies.
to a happier and simpler time
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I can't believe this claim.
I bet they did this a decade ago, and this article is just a way to make people believe it hasn't actually happened yet ...
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
If not, we could finally be looking at the year of Linux on the desktop. :)
For me Linux on the desktop came about five years ago.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
But I personally have nothing to hide.
Even if You are completely innocent, You have "something to hide". So agree both a defense Attorney and a law enforcement Officer as well as every other law enforcement Officer I have ever met.
And the implant for Linux is called SystemD!
but isn't turbine a 3d game engine?
Is there any way to avoid such a thing short of cutting my net connection?
Wouldn't do much good. They have a plethora of ways to extract information from your computers even if there is no internet connection.
But I personally have nothing to hide.
Yes you do. I'm not even going to go on about the "the average person commits 3 felonies a day without even knowing it," speech and instead just point out that everything you do in your private life is just that: private. It is yours, and unless they have a warrant, "they" (whoever "they" may be in your country of choice) should not have access to it under any circumstances. That, and even if you don't think you are a valid target, "they" might disagree. There's a number of people out there that thought they were safe and could trust the system, but you know how that turned out. Most recently, Feinstein is finding that she has been bitten by the very same spy machine she's been feeding, or how about Petraeus' mistress that was exposed through the use of so-called "meta-data."
However, you're absolutely right that even if someone perceives themselves to not be a target, they should still move towards securing themselves.
Is there any way to avoid such a thing short of cutting my net connection? Generally I am not too worried about the NSA. I think it is BS what they do as far as invasion of privacy. But I personally have nothing to hide. But this has completely changed the small amount of reluctance I had in becoming a "ZOMG da sky iz fallinz!" type.
The "I have nothing to hide" argument is quite the slippery slope. Do you truly, really, honestly have nothing to hide? Let's put up cameras in every corner of your house, then. Perhaps we can get full copies of your bank statements? You may trust the NSA as a whole, but Snowden already showed that even a single bad apple can ruin a lot of days. What if he leaked compromising information of private citizens as part of his escapades? Would you have something to hide then? Hyperbolic? Sure. But because we've had even just a handful of instances of people having their lives screwed while innocent because surveillance - legal or illegal - uncovered something about them, it's a valid point. Read more. (article about why privacy matters)
Is my Kaspersky Antivirus going to find and remove their viruses? Or even better, perhaps some enterprising hacker will write a tool that that sends its own malware back through the NSA bot net and trashes their servers. When I was a youngster "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us" was amusing. Now it it taken as a guiding principle by our intelligence services. It's sad.
20 years ago, when I first started ranting about the NSA it was mostly theoretical. I ranted because there was no proof they were not evil. The stickers on my laptop's mic and camera were a bit of a joke. People would ask about them and it would give me a chance to rant. That's all I really wanted. A chance to rant from time to time.
But, now it is clear that all my rants were too conservative.
Now I am doing IT security for a university. I spend all day attempting to hold off the attacks of foreign governments. Some of those attacks now appear to be my own government. I never really wanted to be this paranoid. And it still appears that I am not paranoid enough.
When will I ever be able to take off this stupid tinfoil hat?
Congress keeps railing against money wasted on social programs. It appears the NSA and the CIA are elaborate social programs for sociopaths. Why can't we defund them?
People with nothing to hide can still get wrongfully convicted with circumstantial evidence.
Presentation is august 2009. 3.5 years is a long time in cyber.
This is from 2009, so they've probably done it by now.
Not to mention that many people have something they'd like to hide. Perhaps nothing illegal, but something that would be embarrassing were it to become public knowledge. An agency that spies on everyone is one political move away from threatening to reveal these secrets if you don't tow the line.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Microsoft beat them to it.
Write your own OS and browser, run it on an eval board for some mil-spec chip.
Every common architecture, OS, and browser has known (and undisclosed) attack vectors. The only truly safe approach is to not use them.
Then you can browse the web in full knowledge that your machine is safe, and only every single one of your actions will be tracked.
By far the most effective way to fight terrorism these days would seem to be by dismantling the NSA. It's the largest terrorist organization in the world.
And what a lot of money would be saved.
Must be missing something... I can't imagine how one could reasonably intend to infect millions of machines and not expect their stash of 0-days to be discovered and plugged in short order.. unless NSA plans to social engineer all of their victims to run the "fre3 v1agra" installer seems like a great way for NSA to shoot itself in the foot.
Whaddarthey gonna do? Buy Adobe?
Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
The principle is still valid.
"According to your cellphone records, you were in the vicinity of an anti-government protest..."
Anybody wonder if the plans in these documents (circa 2009?) have maybe adapted and become the recent Linksys worm?
People with nothing to hide can still get wrongfully convicted with planted evidence.
How do we know that the next update on linux is safe?
I thought you said you were going to audit it.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
How do you know the current Linux is safe? How about last month? Last year? Five years ago? One hundred years ago?
I'm not saying aliens wrote Linux, but... aliens created Linus.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
How do we know that the next update on linux is safe?
Nothing is safe, it never was. A "safe" computer is one with no network behind a locked door where the users have to undergo a full body search before entering the locked room.
Everything else is suspect. That's how NSA and their partners have worked for decades, get used to it.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
In civilized countries the government provides all of those. They're all doing fine economically as well.
The government has always been above the law.
The only time people in sufficient positions of power go to jail for crimes is when they governing body been sufficiently embarrassed by the situation they've created that they want to start over with a clean slate, and at least pretend like they never condoned whatever crime was committed Since this is determined by what the *government* actually wants, and not anything constituents may want or choose to do, there is no way that citizens can exercise any control over this.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Even if you have something to hide, just don't mention it on the internet. Drug dealers don't usually mention drugs on their cell phone. If you're a criminal and don't adopt this strategy, you're just bad at your "job".
Developing massive attack tools like that make a global cyber war more likely.
As with the initial ICBM's the first one to strike may believe to win.
Very dangerous, and foolish.
Invasion of privacy sucks, I agree. But come on, how can any agency get information without an internet connection? I suppose you'll say "physical access", to which the answer is "linux+encryption", or "measuring emp" which is even more invasive. If you're breaking laws and don't notice the large surveillance van parked in front of your house for three days, you're an idiot.
I'm the leech from above, with consistent employment. If plans pan out at my current place, I may reach the $80,000.00 range by the end of the year. I'm not rich, but I'm far, far away from needing any social assistance. I don't live in a huge city, so cost of living is quite low here. That salary goes a long way, and I'd gladly double my taxes to increase the services everyone here is getting.
The roads here that are privately maintained are garbage, and the tolls aren't automated yet so they're slow as hell, while the city ones are always in considerably better shape.
My hometown has a public energy utility. My current residence has choice of two, both far more expensive than my home, and they both cost the same. Why? I don't know.
I don't have experience with private water (thank god) but in countries that do privatize water, service and cost isn't exactly an outcome.
This isn't even addressing private vs public (when they're properly funded) education, healthcare, public safety, etc. I've never seen a favorable comparison in any of these cases, though.
Don't want to be too serious, on Slashdot though, so here's a joke. Why is my 6 year-old a libertarian? He doesn't understand the world either.
They can (and have) also be convicted with falsified evidence. What's the difference (other than the fact that continuous monitoring of everyone is far more expensive)?
Toe the line. TOE THE LINE. Not tow. Toe the line as 'line up over there'.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
But I personally have nothing to hide.
Nonsense.
But really, desiring privacy is not wrong. There's nothing wrong with having something to hide.
Thank you Dave Raggett
Even having nothing to hide, and guilty of nothing, you are still target to confirmation bias. And a private joke could put you in deep troubles.
Actually, no. I dissent all the time.
Do I incite riots? Nope.
Well, this may be an interesting talking point, but really is a matter of attitude. Remember when Rob Ford admitted to smoking crack? I don't live in Toronto, but I applaud his honesty. The same goes for every other scenario on earth. If I cheat my wife, it's brought up, and I admit to it, I'll gain far more respect than if I deny, deny, deny.
While I agree with the fact of the rediculousness of how the government can do crime in many ways that would otherwise be illegal. Equating taxes to it is just plain stupid. Taxes are logical payments for services in which the government can and does provide. IE the roads, the oversight into companies to prove that our food isn't entirely relabeled rat droppings, fire departments etc.. Now is it done perfectly or even well? Not in the least, but no matter what a functioning society is going to need a tax system. Even if a perfect rebuilding of government happened, taxes would absolutely be a necessity.
In a world where 90% of desktops can't even display a JPEG securely, to not have this capability would be dereliction of duty.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not-connected-to-internet.html?_r=0
BTW someone told me about this more than 15 years ago. I thought the guy was crazy. Turns out he was right.
I sooo wish he didn't also believe in this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLGxa3L1VJA
because now I'm starting to think that might not be too far fetched either....
How many Xbox One consoles have sold? Microsoft claims 4 million+. That's 4 million homes that have each willing placed the most sophisticated NSA spy device imaginable in prime position to track the household residents 24/7.
Microsoft and their NSA partners, when considering the change of policy that allows (in theory) people to use the console WITHOUT either Kinect of an online connection (both originally compulsory requirements), found that market research indicated a 95%+ likelihood of users choosing to use the console in an NSA optimal fashion.
Essentially, if a person were thick enough to ignore the clear warnings that Microsoft designed the Xbox One to spy on users, they'd actually take a pride in setting up their console according to the NSA guidelines.
Snowden proves over, and over, and over, and over that the GCHQ and NSA are about every aspect of 'full surveillance', and that those people who don't consider themselves as valid targets are exactly the people the NSA are most interested in hitting. A kid screaming the N-word over and over while playing an online game of 'Call of Duty' may one day be a politician whose vote is sought in support of yet another vile war of aggression. Showing him video of his 'racist' outbursts, and asking him how his electorate might respond to such a 'leak' in the press will gain the vote of 90%+ of all people blackmailed this way.
Yet the Xbox One goes so much further. A 'super computer' (by the definition of less than a decade back) connects to a military grade sensor that actually measures the speed of light at each pixel, providing for unprecedented analysis of movement in the room. The Xbox One can be trivially taught to recognise any common pattern of movement (especially the rhythmic movements associated with sexual activity), and begin recording/uploading when such a trigger happens.
Every Xbox One is continually running facial and voice recognition services. And the result of these calculations is uploaded daily to NSA servers in the cloud. NSA computers, mostly using algorithms designed by Google for this purpose, process the facial photographs and voice samples to extract better identification information. The NSA goal is to know who enters/leaves every room with an Xbox One, and when.
The NSA NEVER, EVER, EVER needs hacking or 'trojans' to control the Xbox One computer system. Microsoft provides the NSA with a copy of every Xbox One encryption/authorisation key, so EVERY single online console 'phones home' to NSA servers, and any one of these consoles can be instantly remotely controlled by an NSA agent.
The NSA has far more than its 'fair' share of paedophiles. These individuals have unlimited access to the camera systems of Xbox One consoles located in the bedrooms of children. The video that flows from these cameras is encrypted on-the-fly, so the NSA sex criminal that chooses to use the NSA facility this way can avoid detection if he has even one working braincell.
Snowden is giving a VERY limited snapshot of NSA/GCHQ behaviour in the distant past- 'distant' in the sense that even 5 years back is an eternity when considering the world of computer based surveillance. The owners of Slashdot emphasis, as much as they can, lesser and obsolete abuses by the NSA.
The Xbox One makes all previous forms of full surveillance look like they belong in the Stone Age, and yet Microsoft/NSA reputation management policies on forums and social networks ensure that, even today, those that warn about Xbox One spying are dismissed as "paranoid nut-cases". Every single tech site, this one included, has the official position that no NSA spying occurs via the Xbox One. Every monster in History has followed the principle "if you operate through lies, make your lies as BOLD as possible- the bigger the lie the better it works".
It is one of those theoretical things like being able to predict the number of a psuedo-random number generator. Apparently they "can" eves drop on you computer by listening to the fluctuation of your power supply. But like predicting the next psuedo-random number relies that you know what every single thing is doing, how many processes, what network traffic is incoming, etc, this relies on the fact that they can filter out with absolutely perfect certainty every other electronic device around the computer.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
A form of this I like is "I have nothing to hide from people I trust". The NSA is way past the trust range now.
And just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I don't have things I don't want private. Medical things, pr0n habits (which the NSA does use against you). I don't want them with leverage they're not entitled to.
I forgot if it was the NSA or the CIA that investigated ex-gfs for no reason.
Wouldn't those things then be provided and nearly free then?
Because even though I'm paying record taxes of *thousands* a single paycheck, it seems shit is just shutting down left and right here in Detroit.
Roads are horrible, schools shutting down and bussing to horrid inner-city schools, power is so spotty people complain that they cannot leave for vacation or pets will die. Recently the water plant notified everyone that they failed to maintain the proper city water testing schedule.
So every time I make a $4800 gross paycheck for 2 weeks..... Where exactly is my $2000 going since I only net $2800 of that as a single white male? Car insurance is record high despite a clean safer driver record for 5+ years. Property values plummiting....
Yet I always hear how millions were stolen from this city thing, or lost to that city contract, or someone sued and got X million from the city...... Where are MY taxes going? Not seeing any of these things you are talking about.
It is the collective weight of people not giving a shit that gives the establishment the power to commit crimes against individuals who do give a shit. Give a shit, please.
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
CORRECT
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
Okay, everybody, stop your whining. I'm pretty sure every one of us reading slashdot has had somewhere near the middle of his or her to-do list something along the lines of "script mass exploit of remote computers in case I ever need to give the entire world a big F-U". There it is, just below "implement monitoring for everything" and just above "stock up for immanent apocalypse" (which fell a few spots in late 2012). It probably won't ever float high enough to actually make much progress on, but we've all though of it. If you could get someone to actually pay you to work on that one in a semi-legitimate fashion (i.e. NOT the mafia or Russian government), wouldn't you jump at the chance?
Dough!
I mean...
Do'h!
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
True, but what Rob Ford only admitted to it because a video was obtained of him doing it. Before that, he denied everything. I'm not an expert on Canadian politics, but depending on the political climate, he might weather the storm and keep his job. Or not. Still, I'm sure he'd much rather this all stayed quiet. An NSA that listens to everyone all the time (even if not actively but storing data for future possible analysis) can - either for the purposes of the NSA retaining their power or for other political purposes - look up information on anyone and leak or threaten to leak information on people who don't sit down and keep quiet. The mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence some critics who would have something to lose (wives, children, family, jobs, etc.).
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Don't forget the credit card numbers. Here, put'em up here with the expiration dates.
Wife's measurements would be pretty nice, I'm kinda bored right now.
Your kids, any particular path they take to and from school?
In what condition is your liver? Just askin.
A business that prides itself on being "family friendly" would probably fire you if it knew how you got those children by the way, but hey...
Nothing to hide, right?
No, those are something else entirely. The crimes happen when government agencies exceed their mandate or the limits of the Constitution. Of course, that puts the NSA firmly on the wrong side of the law here. I'm just waiting for the announcement that they are merging with the RBN. If they were at all honest, they would have struck the colors and hoisted the Jolly Roger by now.
This is the really scary part. Other nations are doing it and soon criminal organizations will be doing it, if not already. They are destroying the internet as we know it. Purchase something online and have your money routed to elsewhere or have your credit balance jump to new heights as others use your credit information. Here is a possible senario: "You charged me for 10 widgets." "No sir, we charged you for one and you received it. We did not receive money for 10 but only for the one."
Well, this may be an interesting talking point, but really is a matter of attitude. Remember when Rob Ford admitted to smoking crack? I don't live in Toronto, but I applaud his honesty. The same goes for every other scenario on earth. If I cheat my wife, it's brought up, and I admit to it, I'll gain far more respect than if I deny, deny, deny.
say that when you are framed for downloading CP.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
I love the Expert System. Was it designed by the Really Clever Person? Is Dr. Evil working on the Really Stupid System to counter it? Go figure, or not, depending on the Really Mathematical System.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
difficult to judge linux for me - I still remember nights I was installing linux from mountain of floppies and days fighting x11 configuration. But git is a creation of aliens from outer space for me. I use it almost every day but I am also pretty sure that its use by mere mortals like me is an act of defiance similar to this guy who stole fire and got his liver extracted violently every day for the rest of his endless life....
Honesty schmonesty. Deny, deny, deny is what Ford did, until the actual video was basically on the national news, then, and only then, did he admit to anything.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Continuous monitoring makes it easier to manufacture a plausible source of the falsified evidence.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Read up on sovereign immunity. We need pitchforks.
Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
The real point is not whether you think you have anything to hide or if you have inadvertantly committed your daily three felonies. When it suits the police, you will get caught up in a net. The evidence will appear, or else they will convince you that they have so much evidence against you anyway (whether you believe it's real or made up) that you will end up pleading guilty. An excellent film that shows how this works is "Sins of the Father." It takes place in the UK but happens here--and there, and a lot of other places--every day.
Or no evidence at all beyond what the cops invent. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03...
As bad, if the NSA can do it, so can others. Either they will hijack the NSA's 'wares, or they will use the same vulnerabilities and methods pioneered by these government agencies. Rather than working to protect the nation's citizenry, businesses and infrastructure, the NSA and others are actively undermining our security. Their mandate is not only to intercept enemy signals but to ensure that those of the country's are not similarly compromised. So not only have they overreached too far in one direction, they have ignored the equally important other part of the job.
Sadly, even if the NSA did start offering secure solutions for people, would anybody trust them enough to take them up on it?
Its as safe as encryption hardware was in the 1950-80's or as good as encryption standards where till 2014....
With the lists of weak software encryption, junk hardware, telcos splitting - just another way in?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Depends on the funds and creativity of the staff and support they get. :)
At a gov level: if you have an embassy revert to onetime pads and physical diplomatic bag/pouch. Make sure your staff understand the country they are working in - stop all political appointees for embassy staff - they are useless, the locals dislike them and don't reflect well on the embassy and its efforts.
No fancy encryption fax machines, next gen encryption phones or tested encryption computers for fast "important" chats or documents.
Remember if one nation can read your communications, their intelligence service might have staff with different faiths, in cults, varied politics i.e. a few other nations might get the your communications too
If your a company - make sure your staff travel with clean hardware that never get back to the company after that one trip.
If your writing some form of memoir find a good typewriter.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
An existing botnet army could have a few state and federal informants in its upper levels. Court cases, legal teams on both sides, political leaders and law enforcement press contact can let interesting details become public for many different reasons over time. From state/federal funding, to a job well done, to entrapment, issues with fame, methods, been seeing doing something with hi tech...
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
True, but what Rob Ford only admitted to it because a video was obtained of him doing it. Before that, he denied everything. I'm not an expert on Canadian politics, but depending on the political climate, he might weather the storm and keep his job. Or not. Still, I'm sure he'd much rather this all stayed quiet. An NSA that listens to everyone all the time (even if not actively but storing data for future possible analysis) can - either for the purposes of the NSA retaining their power or for other political purposes - look up information on anyone and leak or threaten to leak information on people who don't sit down and keep quiet. The mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence some critics who would have something to lose (wives, children, family, jobs, etc.).
People line up around the block to buy a Rob Ford Bobblehead. He admits he smokes crack and his popularity goes up. Unfortunately it looks like he will probably weather the storm and get re-elected.
In civilized countries, security agencies watch you sleep.
Of course, for every Rob Ford, there's a dozen other politicians whose scandals destroy their political career. If you're a politician and know you have something that's best not divulged (a partner on the side, drug use, visiting prostitutes, etc), you aren't going to want to take the chance that you can survive the scandal. Especially if the scandal involves something you've declared evil in the past. (Insert any of the very conservative Republicans who railed about how "the gays" were destroying America only to be found cheating on their spouses with someone of the same-sex.) If you were able to know exactly what shady things each of these politicians was up to (even if it wasn't illegal, but just embarrassing given past political stances), you might be able to control how they vote on some issues.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Just how useful has Microsoft Windows been to the NSA in the ease of remotely compromising these "computers"?
Government is there to shuffle papers, maintain infrastructure and do the public's bidding. Not imprison and interfere with other people and countries.
If at first you don't feel good.... suffer like the rest of us.
Logical payments would require opting out without penalty, not being force to pay someone else's bills, and not being arbitrarily charged for the collector just wanting more.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
I've got some moronic friends (around 20 years old) who keep calling themselves anarchists, but they have yet to attempt to assassinate a government official. I keep telling them their not really "hardcore" until they at least TRY to take out some gov dupe, but all they want to do is do drugs and rant at coffee houses.
A society isn't exactly an area that "opting out" is plausible. A police officer can't exactly take the time to determine whether or not someone opted into the "save me if someone is holding a gun to my head" plan, The fire department can't wait for the fire to spread from your proporty before begining to fight it, we can't exactly set up a "food tested to be safe" and "eat at your own risk" sections of the grocery store, A good portion of things that are paid for by taxes, are things that just have to be do it for everyone in the area, or don't do it at all sort of things. Humans have already learned that creating a society with more than 50-100 people, involves some form of infrastructure, and everyone in that society has to chip into that infrastructure. If anarchy worked, there would be a first world country that has an anarchy you could move into. Unfortunately natural selection did not favor such societies, they died out or were invaded and taken over by societies that actually had a functional military etc...
There's been shitloads of malware infections since 2009 despite everyone's best efforts and more people moving off XP to win7.
Humans, no. Feudal lords and khans that evolved their propaganda to pretend to be more than mere warlords. Nations run by politicians only recognize nations run by politicians. It's like monotheists with other monotheists vs polytheists, much less atheists. They're assumed out of the power question thus fair game. Society as you're defining it is merely a power game, and taxes are robbery to maintain that power, just like the old tribute days. Most taxes go to propping up malfunctional "social" programs meant to farm sheeple and sheepledogs for the shepherds. Sheepledogs regularly openly violate the pretense of functional "order" to run extralegal enforcement as per TFA. It's not even a coherent system, never was, never will be, barring social engineering and technology eventually giving us the bastard child of Idiocracy and the Borg.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
Oh, but there are many things you COULD opt out in current society with very little trouble, many many more than those you couldn't. You are right about some government functions that are needed to make society work, but as governments grow the vast majority of the tasks it takes for itself are not critical and should not be imposed upon people regardless of their wishes.
Coercion should be applied only where there is no other way.
My point to the parent of my post is that he might not give a shit, but there is a place to do so. Perhaps take a minute to read through the end of my post?
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
Of course I read your whole post, but I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying privacy is less important when you're exhibiting your gaming skills than when you're exhibiting your IT skills?
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
It's been a two-party system for most of well over two centuries. It may be beyond repair, but I don't see that it's any more broken than it has been for centuries.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It isn't about whether you have anything to hide. Even if you don't, there are many people you respect and value who do have important information to hide. Take your pick: your lawyer, your priest (who knows a lot of people's private problems), your doctor, your political representative, your schoolteacher, your favourite investigative journalist, your daughter's sexual health clinic, your local policeman, ...
No so-called guardian of public morals or safety should be able to get access to any of that information without a properly constituted, and specifically targetted, warrant with a legal process. Whatever the suspected crime.
If you ever visit Germany, visit one of their Stasi museums -- and then think about what they achieved with 1980's technology. And then think about what an over-authoritarion local police chief, or regional FBI/CIA chief could achieve with today's technology.
I am saying privacy is important within the workplace (I am not actually technically in IT). By extension, even though there are some things I don't care if I'm monitored on (gaming being a trivial example), because there are some things I have to care about, I must care always. It may not be clear enough from my post, but at the time, I thought the contrast was obvious. OP does not care at all.
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
That salary goes a long way, and I'd gladly double my taxes to increase the services everyone here is getting.
In that case, the IRS will not mind one bit if you send them a nice check on April 15th for the extra $20,000 or so. Still want to pay double your current taxes?
If however you meant that you would be glad if the *rest of us* paid double taxes, I'll have to say, "No, thank you."
It's always easy to spend other people's money. Which is why so many politicians have no issues with spending more and more each year.
Ah...gotcha. Well done, then. I agree. Sorry for going off half-cocked.
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
No worries. Apparently I was unclear anyway - given the moderation, I don't think anyone else got it either...
I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
A historical document who's only modern significance is that sometimes pitchforks work.
Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
Every time someone says "I have nothing to hide", the conclusion that immediately comes is this: So, in saying this, you are giving your permission to find out anything I can about you, and do whatever I want with that information. Do you really mean that?
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
BTW, if you go to the profile for the person who posted "But I personally have nothing to hide", you'll find the e-mail address is hidden.
You can't make this kind of stuff up, folks.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.