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Silicon Valley's Youth Problem

An anonymous reader writes "The NY Times has an article about the strange cultural rift around tech innovation in Silicon Valley. The companies getting all the press are the ones developing shiny new apps and attempting to reinvent their industry. This attention — and all the money that follows it — is drawing in many young, talented engineers. The result is that getting people to develop needed and useful existing technologies is a harder sell. 'For better or worse, these are the kinds of companies that seem to be winning the recruiting race, and if the traditional lament at Ivy League schools has been that the best talent goes to Wall Street, a newer one is taking shape: Why do these smart, quantitatively trained engineers, who could help cure cancer or fix healthcare.gov, want to work for a sexting app?' This is more evidence that the tech bubble is continuing to inflate: '[I]n the last 10 years in particular, there has been an exacerbation of the qualities for which it's been both feted and mocked: Valuations are absurdly high for companies with no revenue. The founders are younger; the pace is faster.'"

26 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Excuse me? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are you saying that King Digital, maker of the wildly popular Candy Crush Crush Saga (tm)(r)(c) isn't worth 7.6 billion dollars? Surely you jest.

    1. Re:Excuse me? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think Wall Street has learned to account for how fickle website userbases are(how about that slashdot beta?). They have no brand loyalty. And the lack of barrier to entry means that every facebook, zygna, myspace, and yahoo are going to get knocked from the perch and end up in a pile of former stars that have no usage.

    2. Re:Excuse me? by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was in Asia for a few weeks, and was auto logged out from my work computer. Today, when I checked Slashdot at lunch while logged out, I was presented with this strange, foreign beta site. It looked much better than it did a few months ago, and then I logged in and turned it off. So it's still being foisted on the anonymous masses.

      On topic: When is it different that the best and brightest are lured by the flashy companies making the "cool" products and offering low wages and the potential for exploding options, as opposed to working for the existing big companies with all their processes and proper-market-valuation that make them boring and predictable? It's been like this for at least 15 years. Sure, when the economy is down, the big guys are safer, but when the money and drugs and alcohol are flowing (and, this year at least from what I've seen at SXSW, the alcohol and drugs are flowing), young startups are the place to be for people with big ambitions and no responsibilities.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  2. or fix healthcare.gov by Ashenkase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would sooner do surgery on my leg with a spoon than work for the low-bidder, over-commit, under-deliver wreck of a shop that CGI represents.

    1. Re:or fix healthcare.gov by JDAustin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with the OP is he assumes all engineers are part of the 1% who get the stock options and $$$ payouts. In reality, the vast majority of IT folks are no more smarter then normal accountants, lawyers, etc. We just ended up in IT because we didn't want to be accountants, lawyers, etc.

      Personally I majored in Psychology and worked in HR (managing a inhouse access/sql HR db, writing reports) a few years in the mid/late 90's before realizing I could get paid a shitload more doing a similar job but in IT.

    2. Re:or fix healthcare.gov by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Informative

      I knocked around "10 person" class startups for a while, coming in as the "chief software officer" or whatever they wanted to call me, and the position usually rated 0.5% of the current stock pool, vesting over a 3-5 year horizon - this was what they offered as incentive to get/keep me, not what I asked for, though I did have one outfit offer me "shares" verbally, then put "options" on the paper offer - I protested that one, and, incidentally, that one is the only one that has turned into cash for me over time, not much cash, but if those were options instead of shares, it would have been zero.

      Now, if you think that 0.5% stays 0.5% after round D investment brings another $20M to the table, you obviously haven't done this before.

  3. Money by zifnabxar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One word: Money

  4. whose lawn, now? by turkeydance · · Score: 4, Funny

    35 is the new 65.

    1. Re:whose lawn, now? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Soon, pregnant women will squat over a cubicle and directly grunt out a new generation of techies trained in utero. Don't trust anyone over 3 months old.

  5. Because existing companies suck by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It has nothing to do with the products, and everything to do with how existing companies see workers(especially tech workers) as "cost centers". We're kind of reaping the results of a system that views employees as "at will temporary work power" through massive layoffs at the earliest convenience.

    It was "Just the cost of doing business" and we weren't supposed to hold it against them, as it concentrated wealth upwards and made peoples' lives more fragile and terrified. You didn't know if you could count on your next check, but you had to live in a housing market that did assume that. No one really wants to be a whim. Or if they are, they'd like to be a whim of their own, at least.

  6. Money by PHPNerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why would they cure cancer when they can join a start-up and possibly get bought out by the titans? The draw of the Valley is that you can be a millionaire by the time you're 24. This isn't "rocket surgery."

  7. Obviously.. by DigitAl56K · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why do these smart, quantitatively trained engineers, who could help cure cancer or fix healthcare.gov, want to work for a sexting app?

    Because as an employee in America, your CEO makes on average over 273x your pay, whereas if you join a startup early enough you stand a chance of actually benefiting from your companies success.

    Next stupid question?

  8. And is there a real problem? by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the younger coders are willing to risk a few of their early years in the hopes of a big stock win or buy-out.

    Where's the problem?

    If there are other systems that need programmers then hire programmers for those other systems. There are programmers who do not fit the "just out of school" demographic. Why not hire those programmers? Why focus on the "young" coders?

    1. Re:And is there a real problem? by scottbomb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because age discrimination is alive and well (not to mention rather blatant in this field) thanks to the fact that it's almost impossible to prove.

    2. Re:And is there a real problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because they believe the "young" coders will work for dirt-cheap wages and they want a piece of that action.

      Sorry, guys. If you want me, you have to pay me*. You don't have to pay me as much as you would have to pay a 50-year-old consultant, but you have to give me a good wage and good working conditions, or I will walk away and take an offer from one of those startups you're complaining about.

      * P.S.: You also have to not reject my application out of hand because I don't have enough experience. The fact is, as a young person, I don't have 10 years of experience in the industry. That's why I'm willing to accept less money than the 50-year-old consultant. If you don't think it's worth your while to train me a little, fine, but then don't come crying to me when you can't find young people to work for you.

    3. Re:And is there a real problem? by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bingo!

      Just look at the title: Silicon Valley's Youth Problem

      "Youth" being a code word for:
      1. work more than 40 hours a week
      2. work for less than the median wage
      3. no health issues that will conflict with #1 & #2
      4. no husband/wife/kids that will conflict with #1, #2 & #3.
      5. okay with #1 - #4 as long as there is a possibility of a percentage of an IPO or buy-out some years in the future.

      Fuck that. That's not a problem with a lack of "young" coders. That's a problem with their business plan. Items #1 - #4 are really about cash flow (salaries).

    4. Re:And is there a real problem? by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the problem is the original article is talking about the supposedly best and the brightest of IT ... seen as leaders of their profession. When many of the leaders are simply out to make as much $$$$ as fast as they can many others adopt the same mentality. There is little movement of working to help for the greater good of society. It's how much can I get and how quickly can I get it?

      This isn't just IT, this is everywhere in American society these days. Our own political leaders are no different; they're obviously corrupt to the core, and only in it for the money and power, and don't do anything to actually improve the state of our society, which is why our roads are falling apart and our bridges collapsing, while our taxes are sky-high (in the areas where good paying jobs exist). Basically, our society is just falling apart, because no one really cares any more, and why should they? Our leaders don't, and our citizens are too dumb to elect decent leaders or hold them accountable.

    5. Re:And is there a real problem? by waveman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When people complain "supply is less than demand", they often forget to include "at a price I want to pay". It's funny that you often hear this complaint from people who pose as champions of free enterprise.

      Yes there is a shortage of technically competent people prepared to work 60 hours a week for minimum wage.

      If you pay the market clearing price, you will not find a shortage.

  9. Barrier to entry by spxero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't live in the area anymore, but being a fresh college grad near that area around '05 it was hard finding work due to job requirements. I had no real-world experience, only a 4-year degree and a knack for computers and networking. No one was willing to train or even give an interview until I had 5+ years of server admin experience. The end result is that I moved out of the area and haven't thought about going back since. Maybe the older, established companies need to loosen job requirements and train good employees if they want people to work for them instead of the startups.

    1. Re:Barrier to entry by microTodd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think this comment might be closer to the truth. We always see Slashdot stories and anecdotes about how big companies' HR procedures are dumb and you can't barely get hired there because of that (i.e. 10 years experience in a 5-year-old tech. Not willing to train because you have to "hit the ground running"). Meanwhile a startup founder will meet with you at Your Coffee Place Of Choice and hire you on the spot.

      So...younger, no experience, not trained in resume writing? Probably can't even get an interview at Cisco.

      As I see it, its the big companies' problem. They're the ones with screwed up HR procedures.

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
  10. research pay sucks by SuperBanana · · Score: 5, Informative

    " who could help cure cancer " BWHAAHAAHHA. I work in academia/research. The pay, compared to industry, is garbage. Pretty decent educational benefits, great paid time off...but the money coming in the door is, as I said, garbage.

  11. The banality problem. by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Read the whole article. It's quite good.

    It's not "youth" that's the problem. It's banality. "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." - Jeff Hammerbacher, Facebook. Most of the "app" companies are not "tech" companies. They're fad publishers. The technology for doing routine web apps and phone apps is pretty much standardized now.

    The engineering that goes into phone hardware is just awe-inspiring. Electronic design today is brutal. You barely get to use any power, the budget for each function is tiny, the size has to be very small, you have to operate multiple radios without interference right next to each other, and there's a new product to get out every six months. Most of that engineering is not done in the US. That's a big concern. The US probably doesn't have the technology to build a cell phone any more.

    It's not as bad as the first dot-com boom. This time, there's usually revenue. Income, even. Even Twitter claims to be profitable (although they're not, really. Look at the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles results, not the ones excluding "one-time expenses".)

  12. Life sciences unemployment by Jmstuckman · · Score: 4, Informative

    "who could help cure cancer"

    PhDs in the life sciences are more likely to be unemployed than employed at the time of graduation, and the trend is only getting worse

    Why would a medical research lab hire some random coder to cure cancer, when PhDs in biology can't even find jobs?

  13. Innovation by ben.blais6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact that you compare working for and established company to "curing cancer" and going to work for a start-up as "developing a sexting app" shows little knowledge of what start-up and established companies are actually doing. The fact of the matter is, working for a larger established company usually consists of maintaining or making trivial enhancements to existing software with the occasional new product being developed. Working for a start-up, however, usually includes a rampant amount of innovation simply because start-ups don't have much money to advertise their new products. The result result of this is they have a need to develop more interesting and innovative products in order to be able to compete with established companies. Another thing worth mentioning is the diversity that start-ups usually have, need I remind you that Tesla motors was a start-up, and many of the technologies, including some which show promise of curing cancer, were also developed at start-ups.

  14. Re:Fixing healthcare.gov? by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't want to pay (subside) someone else healthcare.

    I didn't want to pay for your K-12 education and subsidize your higher education. It would bother me a lot less though if you weren't so childish and self-centered.

  15. Re:Fixing healthcare.gov? by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Informative

    You realize that the correct word for what you describe here is ... 'pyramid scheme.'

    You do realize you have no clue what a pyramid scheme is, right?