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Is the New "Common Core SAT" Bill Gates' Doing?

theodp writes "'I want to explain why Common Core is among the most important education ideas in years,' wrote Bill Gates in a USA Today op-ed last month that challenged the "dangerous misconceptions" of those who oppose the initiative (pretty confident for a guy who conceded there wasn't much to show for his earlier $5B education reform effort!). 'The Gates Foundation helped fund this process,' acknowledged Gates in quite an understatement of his influence. Receiving $6.5M in Gates Grants was Student Achievement Partners, whose founder David Coleman was dubbed the 'Architect of the Common Core.' So it's not too surprising that at last week's SXSWedu, Coleman — now President and CEO of The College Board (no stranger to Gates money itself) — announced a dramatic overhaul of the SAT that includes a new emphasis on evidence-based reading and writing and evidence analysis, which the AJC's Maureen Downey calls 'reflective of the approach of the Common Core State Standards.'" (Read more, below.) "And over at The Atlantic, Lindsey Tepe reports that the Common Core is driving the changes to the SAT. "Neither Coleman nor the national media," writes Tepe, "have really honed in on how the standards are driving the College Board-as well as the ACT-to change their product." In conjunction with the redesigned SAT, The College Board also announced it would exclusively team with Khan Academy (KA) to make comprehensive, best-in-class SAT prep materials open and free in an effort to level the playing field between those who can and can't afford test prep services. In a conversation with KA founder Sal Khan — aka Bill Gates' favorite teacher and a beneficiary of $10+ million in Gates Foundation grants (much earmarked for Common Core) — Coleman stressed that Khan Academy and CollegeBoard will be the only places in the world that students will be able to encounter free materials for the exam that are "focused on the core of the math and literacy that matters most." "There will be no other such partnerships", Coleman reiterated. Game, set, and match, Gates?"

273 comments

  1. Becuz by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 2

    Litterisy is importint.

    1. Re:Becuz by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But, seriously, we've only solved the universal literacy problem over about the last 50-150 years(depending on when you consider it "solved"), and it's made a huge difference for how well society functions. You can hand almost any American a book about how to do a well-paying job, and they could actually try and tackle it if they wanted. That didn't used to be true, at all. You can count on someone being able to heed a warning label on a product. The US highway system is easily navigable with just reading skills.

      The difference between a literate and illiterate population is so huge that we can't even imagine trying to transition back. Most of our problems now hinge on how we go above and beyond basic literacy and math skills, not whether we do.

    2. Re:Becuz by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      The problem being that Common Core is a step *away* from universal literacy.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:Becuz by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0

      See that last period in your post. There's something you forgot there, like an explanation of why you see your point as true.

    4. Re:Becuz by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2

      I want Bill Gates to do for American Education just exactly what he did for design of computer operating systems and for compound document management formats.

      Because everybody knows that dollars are a surefire benchmark of brain power, so we have proof that Gates is an uncanny supergenius, who should now direct that dollar stream to blast any obstacle for his genius vision of how we should live, and be educated.

      Public policy? Twaddle! Smart people with money. That's the cure for what ails society!

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because all of these tests are and were garbage that test only for obedience to arbitrary rules and standards, and limit creativity by requiring that most of the questions be answered with predefined answers. Because you can easily game 99% of the test with rote memorization.

    6. Re:Becuz by WheezyJoe · · Score: 1

      Public policy? Twaddle! Smart people with money. That's the cure for what ails society!

      Yeah, well, so long as the public goes into a 4-Minute Hate every time some pundit says "wasteful spending", people with money (and they don't need to be smart) will be the only ones who pick up the ball.

      Five words guaranteed to put a damper on anything: "Who's gonna PAY for it?"

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    7. Re:Becuz by Cenan · · Score: 2

      On the bright side, he could be lobbying for MegaCorp1 merging MegaCorp2 by throwing money at absolutely everyone. Or lobbying for deregulation of otter shooting safaris, or something else completely brain dead. Good or bad, what he's spending his money on is not to improve his own situation.

      --
      ... whatever ...
    8. Re:Becuz by RobertM1968 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But, seriously, we've only solved the universal literacy problem over about the last 50-150 years(depending on when you consider it "solved"),

      Sadly, you are only correct if you are equating "the ability to read (anything)" as literacy. There are states where the functionally illiterate rate is staggering. The figures on the DOE sites are very misleading, since they consider the ability to read "basic prose" to indicate "literacy" - when in reality, the "deeper numbers" indicate "21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read.". The numbers are even worse if one expects an adult to read at what's considered an adult level - someplace decently over 50%.

      and it's made a huge difference for how well society functions.

      The true situation does indeed impact how well society (in this country) works. And we can see that ignorance, lack of education and lack of literacy driving some lunatic policies.

    9. Re:Becuz by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      That's an argument for why it's bad, not for why it stops universal literacy. Those two aren't the same, and you're projecting an opinion ("Common core is good") that I haven't presented. Is it okay that I want people to defend their bare assertions? I see no inherent reason why it's wrong, but that's different from seeing any reason why it's right.

    10. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's an argument for why it's bad, not for why it stops universal literacy.

      Pretty obviously, those are one in the same. Or maybe not. The previous system was bad too, so I'm not sure it really "stops" universal literacy or is a "step away" from it.

    11. Re:Becuz by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      And 78% of the test with a ruler and marking column C.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    12. Re:Becuz by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Where to begin? Denial of reading the classics. The elimination of poetry and Shakespeare. Replacement with texts designed to limit vocabulary and more importantly, limit thinking. The almost assured dropout rate of at least 34% as the kids too stupid to achieve common core drop out from frustration and the kids too smart for common core drop out from boredom.

      It's likely great for the 68% of the kids in the middle of the bell curve, but universal literacy is not going to be accomplished under it anymore.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    13. Re:Becuz by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      You're not wrong, but I think you're disagreeing with a different point than I was making.

    14. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where to begin? Denial of reading the classics. The elimination of poetry and Shakespeare.

      That's not necessarily bad. "the classics" are a pretty arbitrary set of works usually chosen because they were considered good 100 years ago. Shakespeare for example has a lot of historical significance and does provide examples of many common literary devices but the language and format is sufficiently obsolete that it's a pretty inefficient use of a modern student's time to analyze (also about half of it is dick and fart jokes and the other half is graphic violence so arguably not optimal subject matter for a school anyway).

    15. Re:Becuz by slew · · Score: 1

      The problem being that Common Core is a step *away* from universal literacy.

      Really? Putting aside on how you would actually create tests to assess reaching Common Core goals, what about the Common Core do you object to? Or is it simply a objection to any and all standardized testing (regardless of the material)?

      The Common Core asks students to read stories and literature, as well as more complex texts that provide facts and background knowledge in areas such as science and social studies. Students will be challenged and asked questions that push them to refer back to what they’ve read. This stresses critical-thinking, problem-solving, and analytical skills that are required for success in college, career, and life.

      These Standards define what students should understand and be able to do in their study of mathematics. Asking a student to understand something means asking a teacher to assess whether the student has understood it. But what does
      mathematical understanding look like? One hallmark of mathematical understanding is the ability to justify, in a way appropriate to the student’s mathematical maturity, why a particular mathematical statement is true or where a mathematical rule comes from. There is a world of difference between a student who can summon a mnemonic device to expand a product such as (a + b)(x + y) and a student who can explain where the mnemonic comes from. The student who can explain the rule understands the mathematics, and may have a better chance to succeed at a less familiar task such as expanding (a + b + c)(x + y). Mathematical understanding and procedural skill are equally important, and both are assessable using mathematical tasks of sufficient richness.

    16. Re:Becuz by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your argument. I'm not sure how much I agree with its premises or data, but it's at least useful to reflect on.

    17. Re:Becuz by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Melinda and Bill Gates have three children: daughters Jennifer Katharine Gates (born 1996) and Phoebe Adele Gates (born 2002), and son Rory John Gates (born 1999)

    18. Re:Becuz by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      Because everybody knows that dollars are a surefire benchmark of brain power, so we have proof that Gates is an uncanny supergenius,

      Many people who are used to being the smartest person in the room say that they feel stupid when talking to Bill Gates.

      I have a Tandy Model 102, which contains the last software written entirely by Gates. It's astonishingly good and has features years ahead of its time.

    19. Re:Becuz by akirapill · · Score: 0

      Link to Abe Lincoln was a Democrat question? Also, the percentage of boxes that are shaded when there are no shaded boxes is 0.

    20. Re:Becuz by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

      Huh... 'cause it says right on the wikipedia page that Shakespeare is required reading...

    21. Re:Becuz by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Because all of these tests are and were garbage ...

      Except that Common Core doesn't mandate or provide any particular test. You appear to be completely ignorant of what Common Core actually is.

      Because you can easily game 99% of the test with rote memorization.

      Not true. First of all, there is no "test" for Common Core. Second, for many of standardized tests you can gain some advantage by learning the types of questions they ask, and memorizing things like vocabulary words. But the advantage is no where near "99%" and many things should be memorized: multiplication tables, the quadratic equation, Pythagorean theorem, etc. I memorized hundreds of vocabulary words before taking the SAT, which helped me on the test, but also made me a more literate person.

    22. Re:Becuz by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      And thus, a step away from universal liturgy into ideological reduced vocabulary.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    23. Re:Becuz by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      The actual "literature" chosen barely qualifies as such. From a reduced, ideologically derived vocabulary to a limited set of stories to choose from, it's as if George Orwell's Newspeak has stepped into our schools.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    24. Re:Becuz by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Many people who are used to being the smartest person in the room say that they feel stupid when talking to Bill Gates.

      There are multiple possible explanations for that. One is the obvious one, that he is some sort of super-genius. Another is that they believe he is, but what he is saying sounds crazy, so they resolve that conflict deferentially by assuming it is going over their head.

      If you're convinced the crazy guy under the bridge is a great poet, you'll likely find deep meaning in his rantings.

      Gates' book is very good, and has important insights. He might be as smart as they say. But your argument is whack.

    25. Re:Becuz by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my brother "can read," but barely. He can indeed read road signs, so "basic" literacy is very, very valuable. But technical information, even in his own field, would glass over his eyes in 10 seconds. Anything important, like a letter from the DMV, he'll have to have somebody explain it to him, even though it is already dumbed down.

      He graduated high school with average grades, too.

    26. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they aren't. Stopping universal literacy might be bad, but there are bad things that do not stop universal literacy.

    27. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are multiple possible explanations for that. One is the obvious one, that he is some sort of super-genius. Another is that they believe he is, but what he is saying sounds crazy, so they resolve that conflict deferentially by assuming it is going over their head.

      Isn't Gates the guy who released a jar of live mosquitoes into an auditorium he was presenting at and told everyone that the mosquitoes were infected with Malaria?

      I can appreciate shock therapy as a method to make people think clearly about a problem, pretending to try and infect them with a third world disease goes sideways and beyond that.

    28. Re:Becuz by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      If Gates can improve school productivity as much as he improved software productivity, yes, that would be a great improvement.

      I know that Window's is not the best operating system (to put it mildly). And English is not the best language.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    29. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Most of our problems now hinge on how we go above and beyond basic literacy and math skills, not whether we do."

      And Common Core Math is just nuts! My third grade son's math homework is so convoluted and illogical, I cringe at it. He's being taught things out of order and has different math topics rifled at him every week. There's no structure where one math concept leads to another. They pepper the kids with half explained concepts then throw them to the wolves - word problems.

      You can completely see how they are structuring this explicitly so kids can take standardized tests.

      I really hope Common Core Math goes away. In cases like this, I totally understand why some parents would home school. I'm half tempted to tell his teach to piss off and I'll teach my kid math.

    30. Re: Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's precisely those very topics that makes it relevant! High school students need Shakespeare because it is morally relevant, it teaches them about conflict, and (with effort) it can be highly entertaining.

      I liked the idea of common core, I was looking forward to it. But after experiencing the implementation at my kid's school I have changed my mind.

      In fact numerous districts locally have dumped it and are hiring their own curriculum writers to replace it.

      What a lost opportunity...

    31. Re:Becuz by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Yep -- kids are just *rarin'* to read the classics, and the they mostly fall in love with reading the moment you allow them to browse one.

      That was sarcasm.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    32. Re:Becuz by geekoid · · Score: 1

      False, but you should be used to being wrong by now.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    33. Re:Becuz by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I'ts becasue he fears change and thinks any change is bad.
      He's basically like a sheep.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    34. Re:Becuz by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " Denial of reading the classics."
      doesn't happen.

      " The elimination of poetry and Shakespeare"
      still taught,.

      And you fail to illustrate why classics and Shakespeare are necessary for good literacy. Most classics are irrelevant and don't apply to anything to today's cultures, and the other ones can only be reflected on by people with a certain amount of experience. Adults. Moby Dick is a great book. If you like thinking about sentence structure and have enough hard experience to appreciate at it.
      I hated Moby Dick at 14, loved it at 40.

      "Replacement with texts designed to limit vocabulary "
      not true.

      "more importantly, limit thinking."
      again, not true.

      " The almost assured dropout rate of at least 34% as the kids too stupid to achieve common core drop out from frustration and the kids too smart for common core drop out from boredom."
      again. false.

      I have two kids in the education system right now. The exceed. when a pupils show they can exceed, they are challenged more.

      You lack any critical thinking skills and are a poor thinker.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    35. Re:Becuz by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      That's an argument for why it's bad, not for why it stops universal literacy.

      Pretty obviously, those are one in the same. Or maybe not.

      So you argument boils down to obviously maybe ?

    36. Re: Becuz by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      It's precisely those very topics that makes it relevant! High school students need Shakespeare because it is morally relevant, it teaches them about conflict

      Yeah, but people don't care about moral and intellectual questions. They care about whether Kim Kardashian is going to have another royal wedding, in yet again another white dress!!!!

    37. Re:Becuz by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Stop lying, please.
      Or stop being stupig; which ever applies.

      "Tell what percentage of boxes are shaded - with no shaded boxes?"
      that a legitmate quesiton. do you not know about the number zero? Are you from 500 BC?
      \
      " Abe Lincoln was a Democrat? "
      Answer would be false, assuming there is such a question; which there isn't.
      Of course, neither political party is anything like they were when Abe was around. In most issues they have swapped position.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    38. Re:Becuz by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Nope.

      http://www.corestandards.org/E...

      Interesting fact:
      If you moved form Oregon to Georgia, the average IQ of both places you jump dramatically.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    39. Re:Becuz by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      English is the best language.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    40. Re:Becuz by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      How DARE they have the AUDACITY to try to build a better world for THEIR children! Selfish jerk-wads! Humph!

    41. Re:Becuz by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      Where to begin? Denial of reading the classics. The elimination of poetry and Shakespeare....

      Just as long as they continue to teach kids to read, write and speak Latin and Greek then Americans will remain the smartest and most educated in the world.

    42. Re:Becuz by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      In Ontario, where we have something similar to "Common Core" already in place. They pretty much gutted classical literature about the time I graduated from highschool in the mid-90's. If I walk down to my local highschool and ask them what they're teaching in terms of literature, you'll find insane things like "Twilight" and "Harry Potter." And I wish I was bloody well joking.

      People who live in places under a similar system already know the writing on the walls with this, you can believe it or ignore it at your own peril. But don't say we didn't tell you.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    43. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pure invention. The CC says nothing about classics, either way. The better curricula being developed for it *emphasize* poetry and Shakespeare. "Replacement of texts ... " have you even read the standards? They a primary emphasis is in moving to *harder* texts, with longer and harder words, the opposite of limiting vocabulary. You seem to be describing curricula from the 70s.

    44. Re:Becuz by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Of course, neither political party is anything like they were when Abe was around. In most issues they have swapped position.

      Actually, in most places people have been propagandized to THINK they swapped position. But when you look at how they actually voted on various subjects (civil rights laws and Internet censorship, for two of a host of examples) or how the programs they produced actually worked out (The Great Society for just one in a host of examples), expect to find that the alleged swap is mostly smoke, mirrors, and very effective political propaganda.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    45. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does that even mean? Oh, I've read most of Marx (and Hegel and Schlegel and Kant and Leibniz and Fichte and Schelling and ...), so I'm not running into a vocab issue. As for "reduced vocabulary", e.g. yours, the CC is exactly the opposite: it is pushing for curricula to greatly expand the vocabulary they teach. Look it up.

    46. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Ontario, where we have something similar to "Common Core" already in place.

      I was educated in the Province of New Brunswick and aside from the occasional meaningless standardized test issued by the provincial government's Department of Education the only common core we needed to pass was covered by the standard curriculum. There was no teaching to the test type non-sense. I did miserably on those standardized government tests yet graduated with an average of 89% based on actual subject matter examinations.

      The real solution to education reform is a return to academic and trades streams beginning in grade 7. Grade seven should be a mixture of academic and trade subjects to expose all students to the options post-graduation. Grade 8 through 12 should be narrowly focused on either academic or trades depending upon the student's preference. Both streams, however, should include reading, writing, and mathematics plus stream-appropriate subjects. By graduation the trades stream students would be ready for apprenticeships or community college, while the academic stream students would be ready for university or community college.

    47. Re:Becuz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're delusional, even if you "kan reed".

      /

      Didn't you mean "Khan Reid"?

    48. Re:Becuz by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 0

      English is the best language.

      There are other languages than 'Merican?

    49. Re:Becuz by aestrivex · · Score: 1

      ANY curriculum that does not require my children to read 17th century British plays and 19th century British poetry as my high school teachers decided to do (presumably because they are sadists and enjoyed wasting my time) -- cannot be all bad.

    50. Re: Becuz by aestrivex · · Score: 1

      High school students need Shakespeare because it is morally relevant?

      Please, do elucidate how fiction about some Italian families do not get along and how some histrionic people in those families whined about their lives for 300 pages and then killed themselves, written in broken, obsolete English, is "morally relevant" to young people today.

      Certainly when I was in high school Shakespeare was very much a question of moral relevance. The ever-present moral quandary was something like: "how relevant is morality in suppressing the urge I have to repeatedly swat my English teachers with various blunt objects for repeatedly making me read this garbage and then writing essays to analyze it."

    51. Re:Becuz by aestrivex · · Score: 1

      Shakespeare was written in Ancient greek right? It certainly isn't English. Perhaps there is common ground with Shakespeare and other important aims of the modern educational system after all.

      (As an aside, Greek is actually a language still spoken, in Greece, Macedonia, and Cyprus. This language is not exactly the same as the ancient greek typically taught in schools elsewhere, but it bears enough resemblance that by far this is not the worst language that one could learn, although it is quite far from the most economically promising choice either).

    52. Re:Becuz by redlemming · · Score: 1

      "the classics" are a pretty arbitrary set of works usually chosen because they were considered good 100 years ago. Shakespeare for example has a lot of historical significance and does provide examples of many common literary devices but the language and format is sufficiently obsolete that it's a pretty inefficient use of a modern student's time to analyze (also about half of it is dick and fart jokes and the other half is graphic violence so arguably not optimal subject matter for a school anyway).

      Nobody should be forced to read Shakespeare. It's far more important to put the social sciences and a little law into the high school curriculum. We also need to put physical education back into those programs that don't have it (but with a more modern emphasis, and allowing those who are doing physical activity outside of school -- things like martial arts, yoga, dance, pilates, etc... -- to opt out).

      Judging from many of the comments on Slashdot, we badly need more of the population to have at least the basics of economics (and personal finance), sociology, and anthropology. We don't need or want to brainwash people on the current legal system (which needs revision on a massive scale, as a result of ethics problems in the legal profession), but at least some exposure to concepts and philosophy of law is also badly needed by most of the population.

      I'd gladly get rid of high school Shakespeare and the rest of the typical required "Literature" or "English" courses to do all that. Some sort of writing course should be required, with a very small class size, but there are many ways such as class could be run without needing to include the "classics".

      Let people come to Shakespeare as adults, as a basis of individual reading preferences. There are plenty of adult education courses readily available that cover Literature, even some that focus on Shakespeare. Typically these have FAR better lecturers than most folks would ever get in high school.

      Perhaps some optional classes could be offered even in some high schools on these subjects. The key is to not make these subjects required.

      There will always be some in society that value this particular kind of writing, such as those who like poetry (although the language keeps changing, which means some of the rhyming no longer works!), or those with an interest in period or linguistic history. Shakespeare played a huge role in the development of the English language, along with the King James Bible, but neither of these should be required reading for the average student.

      The same applies to most or all of "the classics". Many of them are excellent books, but that doesn't mean they should be forced on people.

  2. The danger of commonality by jpschaaf · · Score: 1

    What this entire concept fails to acknowledge is that when everyone learns the same thing, you lose the benefits of everyone having a different educational experience. If we all learn exactly the same things, we take the risk that everyone fails. Why not do things differently in every state to see what works? Somebody needs to learn from basic experimental design...

    1. Re:The danger of commonality by dmbasso · · Score: 1

      Your argument is based on the assumption someone will only learn what is in the program, which is not necessarily the case. Students are free to go beyond what is given to them. For instance, decades ago when I was in school there was no programming classes, nevertheless I learned it by myself.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    2. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Leaning? Common Core has nothing to do with "Learning." It is indoctrination, pure and simple. It's the low-tech implementation of Divergent.

      As a parent you not only have no influence into the "education curriculum" you have no access to it. It is a Federal Gov't power grab and it should be highly eschewed. The Federal Government has no business nor direct authority to be imposing curriculum.

    3. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That only works for motivated individuals. Have you seen our education system lately?

    4. Re:The danger of commonality by crypticedge · · Score: 1

      It's not everyone "learns the same thing" but more of everyone must learn the basic minimum standard that has been proven as true. No one is saying education can't exceed it, but it must meet it for sure.

    5. Re:The danger of commonality by RaceProUK · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is indoctrination, pure and simple

      Basic literacy and numeracy is indoctrination now? I think your tinfoil hat's a little tight.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    6. Re:The danger of commonality by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Gates only supports the common core because it will create students stupid enough to buy Windows 9.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    7. Re:The danger of commonality by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 3, Funny

      Monoculture.

      It worked for Windows security! Why not for American education?

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    8. Re:The danger of commonality by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      Your argument is based on the assumption someone will only learn what is in the program, which is not necessarily the case.

      99% of the time, that's the case. You and I are the exceptions.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    9. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're confusing monoculture with standards. Use Ethernet and TCP/IP as an example. Without these we likely wouldn't have the Internet today, but there are dozens of implementations based on the standard, and not a monoculture. Common Core sets standards, it doesn't provide the textbooks and the class lectures.

    10. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's what you think Common Core is all about, you have not done your homework. ;)

    11. Re:The danger of commonality by amxcoder · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Basic Literacy and numeracy is not indoctrination, however that's not what Common Core is panning out to be in the real world examples...

      It's being used as a tool to teach Social Justice, Wealth Redistribution, and other Marxist ideals to young kids, and is disguised as a school curriculum.

      One example can be taken from the organization "Radical Math" who provide over 700 lesson plans for CC. With chapter titles that include: “Sweatshop Accounting”, “Racism and Stop and Frisk”, “When Equal Isn’t Fair”, “The Square Root of a Fair Share”, and “Home Buying While Brown or Black”.
      Is THAT basic numeracy? Is that how YOU were taught math?

      Or how about a third grade grammar assignment that has questions/answers like: "3) The choices of a president affect everyone. 4) He makes sure the laws of the country are fair. 5) The commands of government officials must be obeyed by all. 6) The wants of the individual are less important than the well-being of the nation." (article ref: http://www.tpnn.com/2013/11/04...)
      Like THAT isn't an not only completely false, but outright creepy. Think about the next generation that grows up, and will think this way because it's been engrained in all their school assignments for as long as they can remember. Think they'll push for individual liberty, or become part of the collective?

      These are just two examples I quickly googled up. But examples are popping up all over the place now that parents are starting to see what the kids are bringing home. You have the right to ignore this truth, but you can't dismiss it, it is there.

    12. Re:The danger of commonality by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      I would disagree somewhat. I am fairly convinced that most people are born with quite a bit of curiosity, but through excessive rote-centric education, learning becomes a labor instead of a desire. The exceptions are not those with a desire to learn, but rather, those whose drive to learn can survive our education system or is revived later in life are the actual exceptions.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    13. Re:The danger of commonality by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      Basic literacy and numeracy is indoctrination now? I think your tinfoil hat's a little tight.
      The method to teach basic literacy and numeracy (I'd rather use basic math, but whatever) IS in fact indoctrination when you flat out toss past concepts in favor of new ones. Are you trying to say that before core competency came out that everyone else who learned the old methodologies exhibited problems of learning the material? Was there a problem that this new method tries to solve? It's my understanding (not from study, please feel free to correct/quote studies which prove otherwise) that basic math and reading skills was a problem that was tackled and for the most part solved. This new foreign way to teach students how to do basic math, what problem does that solve? Is it in fact easier to to it this way to split the problem into several subset problems and combining them together? Or is this politically driven hand waving at a new solution to a problem that was in fact not a problem at all just to say "something" was tackled and solved?

    14. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no better indoctrination than ignorance.

    15. Re:The danger of commonality by steelfood · · Score: 1

      That's to squeeze all the blood out of his brain. Blood is a sign of indoctrination into oxygen-dependency.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    16. Re:The danger of commonality by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 2

      And further, the common core is a set of general standards, not an actual curriculum. Teachers are allowed to choose works, questions, problems, and other material to teach those standards. They can also supplement by teaching things not on the common core standards.

    17. Re:The danger of commonality by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh please! You're talking about two idiot groups that make content aligned to Common Core as if CC was a plane and they provided the engines. All your examples show is that somebody looked at the standards and then wrote some political crap to try and sell. They were probably making the same crap aligned with individual state standards a few years ago. Do you think any school systems will actually buy it?

    18. Re:The danger of commonality by dcollins · · Score: 1

      Holy crap. Thanks for your link to the Tea Party News Network (TPNN), all is made wild-eyed clear.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    19. Re:The danger of commonality by asylum_street_blues · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't even bet on it being proposed content with no hope of being actually used. The second example seems to be a complete fabrication, created for the likes of tpnn.com (which may be patient zero, though the copy has spread like a virus to various other blogs and comment threads) and believed only by the most hapless of their readers. I don't know if amxcoder is a shill or an idiot, but it irks me that the post still sits there at informative, instead of "troll" where it belongs.

      --
      Just because the universe could be a simulation doesn't mean that we're the point of the simulation.
    20. Re:The danger of commonality by devent · · Score: 2

      Radical Math is just a private web site, and your link is showing a photo of some exercise, but there is no evidence that is from the government or from Common Core. The articles claims that that photo is related to Common Core, but no evidence is given. Would be nice to have a photo that shows the whole paper, with copyright and year.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    21. Re:The danger of commonality by Rhalin · · Score: 2

      Radical Math, by itself, has nothing to do with common core. Their existence predates CC by a few years at least.

      That aside, integrating relevant real-world issues into math lessons seems like it would be a rather effective teaching mechanism. Not simply just because they engage certain students, but they make it possible to double-up and teach multiple integrated concepts more quickly - associative memory is much more powerful than rote memorization.

      Aligning these materials to CC is just a rather smart marketing move, hooking into a buzz-word. You're not opposed to free market capitalism, are you? I suppose you could always come out with CC-aligned materials that push your cause. How about math questions like "What percentage of a product description can be a lie before it becomes fraud?". Or perhaps topics such as "Maximizing profits by endangering employees – an introduction to economic thinking".

    22. Re:The danger of commonality by FrozenToothbrush · · Score: 1

      It's to get a good little worker bee. The companies now write the tests for us, ie. they own your children.

    23. Re:The danger of commonality by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If people aren't motivated they're not going to use it anyways. This idea that an education factory can produce results in children is what steals attention and resources away from the kids who are motivated to learn.

      Kids who aren't motivated should have more attention paid to teaching them to get along, to play nice, to learn multiple trades, etc.

    24. Re:The danger of commonality by HiThere · · Score: 1

      That's what it says on the cover. It also says on the cover that Ada has optional garbage collection...but somehow nobody implements it, and no program dares to rely on it.

      When I was in school we often did not get even half way through to mandated text...I don't think optional extras will get much coverage..

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    25. Re:The danger of commonality by HiThere · · Score: 0

      Well, FWIW, I was against the reform that replaced basic arithmetic via memorization with set theory. I'm still opposed. Mind you, I hated that memorization, and I'm not really convinced that it's a good idea as calculators become more ubiqutous, but "Set Theory"? Logic I could see, though I doubt that the students would like it much more than they do memorization, but it's a basic tool. Set theory was dreamed up by people who wanted to reduce the observed world to a minimal number of beliefs. Useful, but hardly appropriate for elementary math. Particularly as it leads immediately to things like the secretary of the non-secretaries club, and the Spanish barber. Wait at least until high school. (Even there I think classical Geometry, algebra, and trig, with possible analytic geometry is a better sequence. Set theory should be mentioned occasionally for those who want to investigate it, but not be central.)

      I haven't investigated was the Core Curriculum is about, but if Bill Gates is in favor of it, I'm skeptical without checking further. If he proposed it, I suspect malicious entrapment. He may sometimes have done more good than harm, but I don't know. His PR agents tend to whitewash his deeds, and ignore any commercial ties. Whenever I've actually looked carefully, it has seemed to me that he has done more harm than good. (Admittedly, I usually rely on presuming that current actions are similar to prior actions, and don't investigate.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    26. Re:The danger of commonality by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Not in New York State, they aren't. In New York, teachers are told to use the EngageNY materials and ONLY those. Though, when pressured, the Department of Education weasels out and claims it's up to the local school districts to decide. Then the local school districts say they were told by Department of Ed that they NEED to use these.

      For those who don't know, EngageNY is literally a script. They tell the teacher what to say (exact words), when to say it, in what manner (excited, happy, etc) and how long to spend on each item, down to a 10-15 minute interval. Does one kid learn differently than another kid who learns differently than a third? Too bad. They all need to be taught the same materials in the same way and that's that.

      Furthermore, EngageNY is horrible when it comes to math. They aren't teaching the kids to work with numbers anymore, but to draw pictures. For example, if you tell a kid to subtract 0.5 from 1.8, EngageNY says to draw a series of boxes like this: (Using O's to avoid /.'s "junk filter.")

      OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

      Now you circle 5 of these boxes and count the ones left. There are 13 left so your answer is 1.3.

      If you actually do 1.8 - 0.5 = 1.3, then you've done the problem the wrong way and are counted as if you have the wrong answer. In addition, this method doesn't scale at all. Try doing it with 1,034.56 - 52.31. Your hands will cramp before you've drawn and circled all of the boxes!

      My wife and I have been fighting this all year. My kids have gone from loving school to dreading it and everything has refocused onto the standardized tests instead of actually teaching the kids. We're refusing the tests. Every parent can, though sometimes the school will try to bully you out of it. Common Core wasn't designed with educators, it was designed by a group of politicians and big business folks the latter of which seem to get dollar signs in their eyes when they look at schools/students.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    27. Re:The danger of commonality by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      The standardized tests are being used to rank teachers and can be used against them in job performance reviews. This means that teachers will do what they can to improve their kids' standardized test scores. This, in turn, means not teaching anything that isn't on the test. Teaching non-test materials means risking your job.

      Right now, my son (5th grade) is doing a ton of test preparation materials because the teachers are told to do that to increase the test scores. (We're actually refusing the tests, but he still falls victim to "teach to the test.")

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    28. Re:The danger of commonality by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      As a parent of a kid who's doing "Common Core math", I can tell you that "Common Core math" is horrible. They're not being taught to work with numbers but to estimate answers (652 X 7? Well, that's kind of like 650 x 10 which is 6,500. Problem solved!) and to draw diagrams (1.8 - 0.5 => [OOOOO] OOOOOOOO => 13 O's => 1.3!). Working with numbers is now the "wrong way" and gets marked incorrect even if you get the answer right with that method.

      This is purely politicians and corporations working together to "improve" education without any educators having input whatsoever. It would be like having a group of PHB's designing a program without any programmers having input and then having them claim it's so much better because programmers were the source of all of the previous versions' bugs.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    29. Re:The danger of commonality by mikael · · Score: 1

      From your description, I thought Radical Math was something out of The Onion. But no, it is really politically interwined arithmetic and algebra questions:

      http://www.radicalmath.org/cat...

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    30. Re:The danger of commonality by amxcoder · · Score: 0

      I'm not a shill, and would like to think of myself as not an idiot (don't we all). Nor am I a troll. I've been a member here on Slashdot for years, and by "shill" you are trying to say I'm getting compensated some way to post what I post, or to stir the pot, which is not true either.

      I would also like to point out, that I did NOT make the original post that was commented, I only replied to it in support of the other persons opinion. I happen to have the same opinion as that poster. Hell, even Slashdot has had an example or two of some freaking retarded CC homework assignments that were made public a while back. While that one might not have been political leaning, it was one example (and more show up every couple weeks) about how bad the application of this "one size fits all" curriculum is.

      Look, I've tried to learn what I can about CC for the last year or more, as I'm vested in the fact that I have 2 school age children, so that makes ME responsible for what they get taught. You can have what ever opinion you want about CC, but I would urge you, that if you have kids, you might want to do your homework on it as well, as it's ultimately your responsibility what they are or aren't getting taught and lectured to about in school.

      Ultimately, if you don't agree with my point of view, more power to you, they're YOUR kids, raise them how you see fit. But don't call me a troll, or a shill because I don't share that opinion from the evidence I've seen so far and I'm responsible for raising MY kids how I see fit.

    31. Re:The danger of commonality by twistedcubic · · Score: 1


      Teachers are allowed to choose works, questions, problems, and other material to teach those standards.

      This is not true. This is not true at all. In fact, the opposite is true.

    32. Re:The danger of commonality by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand. There is no "mandated text" in the common core. It basically lays out the standards. For example, students should be able to "Compare and contrast the themes, settings, and plots of stories written by the same author about the same or similar characters (e.g., in books from a series)"

      That's it. It doesn't tell you what book to read, it only lays out what they should be able to get out of that book.

    33. Re:The danger of commonality by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Then the problem is not common core, but a state-mandated scripted learning curriculum, which, I will readily agree, is full of shit. Keep in mind NY could have and probably would have done such a curriculum without common core.

    34. Re:The danger of commonality by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Is that common core, or you state or district's curriculum and pacing guide? There is a difference.

    35. Re:The danger of commonality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing the standards with stupid curricula.

      Why do you say this is "politicians and corporations" working without input from educators? Do you know anything about how the CC math standards were developed?

      Here are the groups that were involved: http://www.corestandards.org/about-the-standards/frequently-asked-questions/
      Here is a discussion about the math standards: http://www.corestandards.org/other-resources/key-shifts-in-mathematics/

    36. Re:The danger of commonality by asylum_street_blues · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. The language was intemperate, and I did check afterwards and saw that you've contributed real information to Slashdot (as well as some politics that I disagree with but am willing to take as sincere). More useful posting history than my own, certainly.

      I usually don't bother to post responses to things that seem dumb to me, because who has the time? However, a pet peeve of mine is willful presentation of lies crafted to seem like "evidence" to back up a position. It makes it so much harder to find out what's really going on, and I'm enough of a positivist to think that we can make good fact-based decisions if we don't pollute our information sources. Occasionally something jumps out at me. It seemed virtually certain to me that the examples you gave were bogus, precisely because they seemed too dumb to be examples of real propaganda. What they look like is crafted material designed to convince an unsophisticated reader that propaganda was afoot, because they look like what such a person would do if they wanted to create propaganda. I find that whenever I actually bother to check out things like that -- and I read a range of sources, from Infowars to Newsmax to Fox News to the NYTimes to Daily Kos (and some fringier left-anarchist stuff as I find it) -- they are inevitably bullshit of one sort or another. This has been so universally true in my experience that I assume things that look like that are false. Unfortunately, at the time I responded, it seemed like the examples you gave were being taken seriously, so I took the unusual step of actually checking them out and responding. If I'd shown up a little later after there was other feedback (and the moderation of your post had gone back down) I probably wouldn't have bothered.

      The Radical Math example, while probably a real thing (and hilarious, from my point of view), showed no signs that it had ever been incorporated in any curriculum outside of avowedly leftist private settings, and had nothing to do with Common Core, other than an allegation that some people driving Radical Math were associated with some people involved with Common Core. This allegation included talking about how Obama is operating under Bill Ayers' agenda, which is a tired right-wing meme that I wish were truer than it is, leading me to discount the veracity of the entire account.

      The second example seemed likely on its face to be an urban myth at best, and indeed I found no evidence that it's even real, far less associated with Common Core. It had the characteristics of an astroturfed internet meme (appeared verbatim across a swath of right wing blogs, referenced verbatim in comment sections of news articles).

      To me, believing anything so obviously incredible indicates poor reasoning, regardless of whether you agree with the underlying criticism of the Core.

      It seems likely to me that these kinds of stories are spread both by people who honestly if mistakenly believe them and by people who either willfully or professionally spread things they know aren't true for the purpose of promoting their viewpoint. Thus, idiots and shills.

      I don't have a strong opinion on the Core. I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of national standards (if they're high). I'm a strong proponent of public education, I think that an educated citizenry is a vital national interest. I haven't studied the Core at any length, but what I've seen seems well enough thought out. I have no doubt that it will be implemented poorly in many places and outright stupidly in many places. Since the control is very local, I suspect that those places are probably making similarly poor or stupid decisions now. Fixing that is complicated and I certainly don't have answers.

      Anyway, that's where I was coming from. I apologize for the personal attack. I usually avoid that, and should've in this case. The post pushed several buttons (bad evidence, organized propaganda/marketing, education) and I responded rashly.

      --
      Just because the universe could be a simulation doesn't mean that we're the point of the simulation.
  3. Only only prep really leveling? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    To me, it doesn't help things to have prep material for students be primarily available on the internet - that doesn't really seem to be leveling things with people that may not have good internet access.

    Not that the SAT was great, but at least there were a ton of prep materials you could get and use from anywhere.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Only only prep really leveling? by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 1

      Anyone with access to a school should have regular access to the internet, and even those who don't should still be able to access the internet at a local public library, in everywhere but the most backwoods areas of the nation. I'm not sure of any other way the materials could be made so available. (Not that I support Common Core or Gates' SAT initiatives)

    2. Re:Only only prep really leveling? by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Materials being online has little to do with the actual common core standards and more to do with the lack of money to buy textbooks. Here in the South, most states haven't bought new books since the economy crashed in 2008-09. Hence the reliance on online materials.

    3. Re:Only only prep really leveling? by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      Hear in Texas we only need ONE textbook. It learns you readin, histry, grammer, patience, human relations, sience, or anythin else youd ever need to no. But the FEDRAL govinmint wants to ban it from our scoohls!

  4. Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem isn't that they have ideas and they spend money on getting those ideas to work. It's that the Gates foundation uses their "leveraging" plans for charity on everything, including more political stuff like education. So they give large gifts with the caveat that both that money, and an even larger chunk of public money be spent on doing things the way the foundation envisions.

    This is great when it comes to eradicating diseases or building infrastructure, because once that's done, areas stay healthy and stable. When it's used on the already pretty-functional US education system, it turns into a "my way or the highway" situation and the plans being advocated by the Gates foundation aren't nearly as evidence based.

    It's problematic.

    1. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Kingkaid · · Score: 1

      Because the current education system is working -so- well right now. Evidence based is good, but only if you have good evidence. The current teaching methods in the US are falling further and further behind other countries. Many teachers are teaching to the test, which is what the evidence has decided is "the best way to see how they are learning". So while a "my way or the highway" approach isn't ideal, tell me when the last time you heard a group of educators get together and make a decision that was positive, controvertial and complex... all in a timely manner. Hell the current system is allowing for creationism and is still debating evolution.

    2. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      It is more like,
      People like his ideas, They read 1/2 of the recommendation, then they propose it to the government who only gets 1/2 of that proposal, who then under pressure implements it using 1/2 of the proposal. This may go down a few levels only leaving the Title "Common Core" as remaining.

      Because there is this impression of the Failing Schools and we expect someone else to fix it.
      However there are a few issues with that.
      1. Many of the most successful countries with test results, have a school system where only the best continue on to more schooling the rest go to vocational schools. Meaning our system were we expect our kids to go school no matter how much they suck.

      2. The issues of kids learning ability isn't as much as the schools as everyone else things. We got factors such as Parents, Culture, Environment, and the Child's own self interest to learn which are more major factors.
      If the Parents don't care how well their children do then they won't push temselfs to learn even in the best of schools.
      If the culture doesn't value education then the kid won't either
      If the environment is in a way (such as gang activity/domestic abuse/starvation etc...) where education is much lower on a child's priorities then they will not focus much.

      3. A lot of these other factors are part of a catch 22 problem where education can help fix the above problems, however those problems prevent education from improving.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Yes, we fall further behind other first world countries, that's true, but we're ahead of where we were, (pretty) consistently, year-to-year. There's this imagined problem of the education system "going to shit" and requiring immediate and intensive treatment. To continue the medical analogy, we're more like an obese patient who is not currently suffering from any life-threatening conditions. The solution isn't (necessarily, that is. Evidence would help) cardiac surgery, but finding where we have the worst problems and working on them consistently.

    4. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, politics and school administrations only makes things worse. If we could find a way to do without both, while still keeping universal education, no one would complain.

    5. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gwstuff · · Score: 1

      > it turns into a "my way or the highway" situation

      Ah, I see, so THAT was the hidden message in the cover of the "Road Ahead" - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...

    6. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Oh man, I always thought it was "Please, run Bill Gates over."

    7. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      When it's used on the already pretty-functional US education system

      It is not and never was "pretty-functional"; it is and was abysmal, like every education system.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    8. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I actually disagree with you here, because the Gates Foundation does more measurement and changing based on measurement than any other educational group I know of. That is why he says 'there is nothing to show for $5billion effort,' because they tested the things they tried, and found they didn't offer real improvement. So they moved on to try something else.

      About the common core, I'm not entirely sure what the criticism is. If you read the summary, it looks like an improvement in both math and English. The focus is on making sure kids understand math, rather than being able to solve problems.

      Some teachers criticize standards like this because they advocate 'teaching to the test.' Well, if your students aren't able to do basic math, they would be better off if you taught to the test than whatever you were doing before! It wasn't working!

      If someone has read more deeply through the standard, and has found things that should be changed, then that would be really interesting to hear. But 'he is rich!' is not a valid criticism.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The focus is on making sure kids understand math, rather than being able to solve problems.

      If you "understand" math, but can't solve problems with it, then you don't understand math, or at least not anything useful about it.

    10. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by stolldog · · Score: 1

      You think 30th in math is pretty-functional?

    11. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by JWW · · Score: 1

      The problem I have with the math standards is that they are acting like kids can just naturally figure out things such as how to divide large numbers. And in some respects they can, but when kids figure it out for themselves they miss most of the simple methods and processes that can make solving the problem much much much much easier.

      Kids now are stumbling around how to divide 536 by 5 and sometimes coming up with the right answer. But instead of then being taught a quick an simple method, long division, they're forced to keep solving things the long convoluted way they "discovered" on their own.

      This is a horrible turn of events. I personally conflate it with the idea of: What if one of those worthless humanities courses (where every answer can be considered "right") came up with a way to teach math? These new standards are the type of math you'd get from that.

    12. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, much simpler than that... you don't *get* a say in it at all, for you there isn't even a highway, there isn't a choice, because those who can 'speak' the loudest get to decide, and now the SCOTUS has ruled that 'money=speech'. You can't afford to 'speak' as loud as he can.

    13. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Right, so education never did anything for anyone.

      I mean, I'm not sure what you're comparing it to if "every education system" sucks. I hate to point out the obvious, but universal education was a transition point for society at large from some really terrible conditions. I'm sorry the real world is abysmal, but we don't live in a fictional universe where everyone is super-intelligent and knows everything.

    14. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      Right, so education never did anything for anyone.

      Straw man.

      That the situation could be worse does not mean it is good. I am saying that it could be vastly improved, and that, at the moment, while it serves some purpose, it's still bad.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    15. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      But being able to follow a bunch of steps to solve a problem doesn't mean you understand it, so the focus *should* be to make kids understand it.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    16. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A little late for meaningful improvements of education (if you are looking to compete with other countries) by the time they are taking SATs.

    17. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      The quick way is to break out a calculator. Teach kids how and why the math works, stop making them solve repetitive problems that don't even test their understanding of the material, and then give them calculators or computers where necessary.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    18. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Ideally kids should both understand math and be able to solve problems with it. However, one of the most important steps in understanding math is to use it so solve problems. Moreover, if I had to choose between someone who "understood" math but couldn't solve problems with it, and someone who was the other way around, I'd choose the latter.

      I have some experience with this. When I went to school "new math" was supposed to make kids "understand" math, as though grade school students below Gauss' level could reason out math applications using a deductive approach from general principles. I'm good enough at math to have overcome this stupidity, but it made a mess out of a lot of kids early math education.

    19. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      However, one of the most important steps in understanding math is to use it so solve problems.

      Not really. When they asked me to do 30 problems that required me to use the Pythagorean theorem to find the missing side of a triangle, I didn't even bother doing them. All you're doing is repeating the same steps over and over again and working with different numbers; that won't lead to true understanding.

      That's not to say that there should be *no* problem solving at all, but that one is able to determine how much is necessary for themselves. Solve a few problems to get a general idea of it, and then ponder why it works.

      Moreover, if I had to choose between someone who "understood" math but couldn't solve problems with it

      That person can't be said to understand it. We should be teaching kids the how & why.

      I'd choose the latter.

      Rote memorization drones don't tend to do a good job, anyway.

      When I went to school "new math" was supposed to make kids "understand" math

      That's because "new math" did no such thing. The stated goal may or may not have been to make kids understand math, but if you look at what they were doing, it did no such thing. I wouldn't recommend anything like it.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    20. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      No, that's not a straw man. That's what you said. You said every education system was abysmal, implying the lack of a system was better.

      Take responsibility for your own bad argument and don't blame me for pointing out how incredibly stupid it was. You can say "I didn't really mean that"

      But no. You gotta go "I didn't say the stupid shit I said, here's me saying something much more reasonable as if it were what I said originally, idiot".

    21. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      You said every education system was abysmal, implying the lack of a system was better.

      It implies no such thing, unless you took it to mean "Education systems are bad." rather than "Every education system thus far has been bad."

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    22. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the US behind other countries? I was reading awhile ago how education is so vastly different from country to country that the results are fairly easy to manipulate. Not all of the countries teach the same things to the same age groups at precisely the same time. It's hard to compare.

      I think we do pretty good comparatively.

    23. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The focus is on making sure kids understand math, rather than being able to solve problems.

      If you "understand" math, but can't solve problems with it, then you don't understand math, or at least not anything useful about it.

      I've been through the education system recently enough to remember it clearly, here's how Mathematics is taught: "When you see a formula that looks like X, do A then B then C, you have now 'solved' the problem".

      Why do A, B or C work, what exactly is going on? Not going to explain that, the curriculum requires solving the problem, not understanding the axioms. This results in a lot of rote learning and zero understanding, you memorize the pattern and the list of solution steps then execute them like a computer (recall program, run program, write answer; zero understanding required).

    24. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      If you can't figure out 536/5 in your head, or at least a decent approximation, then you don't understand arithmetic, let alone math.

    25. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by HiThere · · Score: 1

      One of the main problems with the current system is micro-management by distant administrators. This isn't going to improve that. The tax system restructuring that was supposed to fund schools equally has, surprisingly, resulted in schools in poor areas subsidizing those in wealthier areas.

      I don't have a good answer, as high mobility has basically destroyed most local communities (and by local I'm including neighborhoods, as well as small towns). But it's also had lots of good effects. The basic problem is the increased spread of inequality of income, and the abuses of power that it leads to. (If it didn't lead to abuse of power, I'd be more willing to listen to the "free market" people despite the fact that there has never, in all of history, been a free market larger than an extended family, and even that size is uncommon.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    26. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by amorsen · · Score: 1

      The current teaching methods in the US are falling further and further behind other countries.

      How do you know? Which studies show that?

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    27. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      The quick way is to break out a calculator. Or are you going to say that people who aren't as fast as you'd like don't understand math?

      In any case, I reject your conclusion. People who understand the hows and whys of mathematics aren't necessarily able to do random, useless arithmetic problems in their heads. That's because remembering all that information and calculating the result is irrelevant to understanding why it all works.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    28. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Attempts to use objective measures, like identical math tests targeted to identical age groups sorta suggests that, yeah. Even discounting countries with the usual things like "they let their students drop out sooner"(as if we don't have incredible drop out rates here).

    29. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Still different from what you actually said, okay? I'll drop it, but be more careful in your phrasing, and don't blame me for it.

    30. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by HiThere · · Score: 1

      FWIW, axioms cannot be understood. They can only be postulated. If they are said to apply to reality, then they can also be observed to be invariably true. (Well, actually they can be observed to be true when you are noticing them, except in minor edge cases that can be explained away.)

      What *can* be understood is how the axioms interact to describe an instance. (I'm being general here, so that I'm not *just* talking about math, but math is included.)

      One useful way of talking about axioms is to use metaphors, some times historic. E.g., the equals sign is a symbol representing a balenced set of scales (as used in Babylon). In this system numbers are mapped to weights. So the scales remain balanced if you add or remove the same number from both pans of the scale. But this is an analogy, and there are places where it breaks down. (E.g., a square root has two valid answers...which doesn't fit the analogy, but does fit the axioms.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    31. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      "It is not and never was "pretty-functional"; it is and was abysmal, like every education system."

      That could be interpreted in a few ways.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    32. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      It is more like,
      People like his ideas, They read 1/2 of the recommendation, then they propose it to the government who only gets 1/2 of that proposal, who then under pressure implements it using 1/2 of the proposal. This may go down a few levels only leaving the Title "Common Core" as remaining.

      The homeopathic approach to educational policy?

    33. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not seeing the improvement. i believe the tests are watered down and the system is gamed. Speaking with younger people reveals a lack of exposure. I used future perfect tense in a discussion with presumably higher capability young people and was met with questions and doubts about my grammatical expression. These people had never experienced that grammatical tense before. During my youth even the dummies had no problems understanding future perfect tense. Soon we will have descended into a cacaphony of grunts and squeals.

    34. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I think the point is, before kids were being taught to solve problems, but didn't understand the math. Clearly that is unacceptable.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    35. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I have some experience with this. When I went to school "new math" was supposed to make kids "understand" math, as though grade school students below Gauss' level could reason out math applications using a deductive approach from general principles.

      That's great, if you have read through the curriculum and have reason to think it's as bad as 'new math,' then we have a problem. But I don't think you did that; it seems like you started out with pre-conceived dislike, and started looking for problems with it. Then presented those problems without really digging to see if they were actually problems.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    36. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Rankings don't tell anything about proficiency. If the other 29 ahead are pretty functional, then #30 is probably also pretty functional.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    37. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Kingkaid · · Score: 1

      Well you can look at the OECD reports for one thing, specifically around math and science. There are other peer-reviewed journals out there.

    38. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by aestrivex · · Score: 1

      I will have you know there is no such tense as the future perfect, what nonsense!

    39. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by amorsen · · Score: 1

      The OECD report is just the PISA test. That has been thoroughly debunked.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    40. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and while we're at it, let's stop wasting time teaching them spelling and grammar and vocabulary, there's an app for that.

      Imagine trying to read a book when you have to sound out every other word or look it up in a dictionary, how well do you think you will understand it compared to when you can read fluently. It's the same thing when you try to do math and have to pull out a calculator for every operation.

    41. Re:Gates foundation: not good for education by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      It's the same thing when you try to do math

      The *entire point* is to teach them to understand math. Someone won't understand the "why" by doing a bunch of useless arithmetic problems in their heads, no matter how many they do.

      Case in point, I know more than a few mathematicians, and they don't waste their time figuring out useless arithmetic problems in their heads. Some of these people can't quickly or even accurately do these calculators in their heads, and yet they're far, far more intelligent than most losers our high schools and colleges pump out. It's because they understand why and how it all works, not just do useless, repetitive problems and memorize facts. Math is not about speed, or being able to do arithmetic in your head quickly, but about understanding.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
  5. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like this is supposed to be some sort of exposé deriding common core as an evil concoction from Bill Gates, when in fact this is the best change to the educational system in decades. Does anyone really think keeping the current SATs and current school API tests is a good thing?

    1. Re:And? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      It's not the core that's the issue. It's the testing.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:And? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I dunno, this sounds like a false choice to me. Whether Common Core is good or bad is debatable, and I'm sure there are a lot of people willing to debate you on that. Do the SATs need to be changed? Yes. I could agree with that. But this doesn't mean that the changes suggested are the best way to go about it, or even if the changes are better than what we have now.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:And? by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      It's everything. While it would be fairly difficult to make the education system even more abysmal without trying to do just that, this isn't helping.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    4. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you tried reading the standards? I bet if you read them you'll modulate your "everything sucks (because someone said so)" position. Try: http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/

    5. Re:And? by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      I have read them. In practice, the problems are: Multiple choice, the ability to game the tests by merely memorizing information, useless questions that don't test one's understanding of the material, and the stated goal of preparing students for college and a career (that is not what education is about).

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    6. Re:And? by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      Also, I don't buy that reading a passage and then answering exactly how they want you to answer improves critical thinking skills; the questions are often subjective and have multiple answers, but they only want you to answer one way. So much for creativity.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
  6. $6.5M and $10M are small peanuts by Corporate+T00l · · Score: 2

    Given the citation that an "earlier $5B education reform effort" didn't really do much, are we to believe that two small grants, $6.5M to David Coleman's company and $10.75M to Khan, somehow means that Gates single-handedly rammed the common core down everyone's throats against their will?

    That seems hardly likely. Bill Gates may support the common core, but the notion that it's somehow a conspiracy that he masterminded with his wealth seems farfetched. If you look at reporting on the common core like this recent NPR article (http://www.npr.org/2014/01/28/267488648/backlash-grows-against-common-core-education-standards), you'll see quite a complex list of entities for and against common core. The Chamber of Commerce is for it, Glenn Beck is against it. There's a lot more in this fight than the Gates Foundation's $17.25M.

    1. Re:$6.5M and $10M are small peanuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Gates may support the common core, but the notion that it's somehow a conspiracy that he masterminded with his wealth seems farfetched.

      Haven't you heard? - this is Slashdot, where everything Bill Gates does is part of an evil conspiracy of one form or another.

  7. problems by cellocgw · · Score: 2

    First, the current SAT rules are that each student can select which test scores to submit to colleges. Many kids take SAT prep courses and then take the SAT multiple times, submitting only the best result.

    Second, colleges seem to be reluctant to publish any sort of data on the correlation (or lack thereof) between SAT scores and college GPA or dropout rates. So how do we even know whether the SAT is a useful assessment tool?

    Disclaimer: I'm a college-application anarchist who thinks all admissions departments should be taken out and shot, and applicants selected using the time-honored Staircase Method.

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    1. Re:problems by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 2

      But the SAT does. You might want to look in to that before you make that statement. I'm now fan of the SAT but they do publish information showing the correlation between SAT scores and the success rate at the college level.

    2. Re:problems by cellocgw · · Score: 2

      Do they (SAT) discriminate between "prepped" and "unprepped" testees? I'm skeptical because that would require extensive self-reporting.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    3. Re:problems by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Teaching to the test isn't a bad thing as long as the tests themselves are actually well written. I've seen some of the standardized test questions today's high school students are expected to answer, not just in the SAT but in their graduation requirements, and they're just awful. Poorly worded questions with poorly worded answers.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    4. Re:problems by dwpro · · Score: 1

      SAT scores to correlate with a lot of good metrics (higher income, more degrees) but I'm not certain specifically about college dropout rate. I would hazard a guess there would be a strong correlation.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    5. Re:problems by slew · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: I'm a college-application anarchist who thinks all admissions departments should be taken out and shot, and applicants selected using the time-honored Staircase Method.

      Well, that says a lot right there. However, the SAT is a useful assessment tool similar to the staircase method or simply admitting alphabetically by middle name.

      Generic colleges need to sort their applicants somehow and desire a CYA from discrimination lawsuits, SAT is a good place holder...

      Selective colleges pretty much ignore SATs anyhow, except that if you can't be bothered to take the test and score reasonably well relative to the average joe (or jane), you probably won't be bothered to graduate on time either, so they will probably look the other way on your application... Almost all selective colleges primarily look at are weighted GPA (underwater basketweaving 'A's don't really count), and extra curricular activities. Most use the SAT as a threshold thing (if you score above some threshold that pretty much puts you in the heavyweight staircase category for that criteria, if you score below some threshold, you are a lightweight and better have some other area where you can add some weight).

      On the other hand, having worked with undergrad admission departments in the past, I can say, that they can already be somewhat characterized by anarchy and various people going rogue, so I don't know what you hope to gain by taking them out ;^)

    6. Re:problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could argue that part of the SAT could be to test how well students can prepare for a future assessment. After all that's how grades are given at university as well.

    7. Re:problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a feeling I wouldn't be satisfied either way. If don't report on the difference between SAT prep takers and non-takers, then I'll feel we aren't getting the whole picture. If they do, then I'll complain about the (absolutely correct) bias of students not being bothered to take part in the self reporting of prep class attendance.

      That said, your response to someone whose whole post basically consisted of "nu-uh!" is spot on.

    8. Re:problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't true, and I know this because I'm currently heavily involved in publishing a series of manuscripts exploring the effects of both sat verbal and math, as well as high school gpa, on how long and how successfully students graduate. It is a PITA to get data from the schools, and an even bigger one to try and get data released from both ETS and the state governments. However, I still don't see that as an active conspiracy, but just general bureaucracy.

    9. Re:problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SAT scores to correlate with a lot of good metrics (higher income, more degrees) but I'm not certain specifically about college dropout rate. I would hazard a guess there would be a strong correlation.

      Your conclusion is flawed. Colleges and universities in the US take only the highest scoring applicants so there is a selection bias eliminating everyone below a certain minimum cut-off score. Can you prove that the majority of those with an SAT score of 900 would fail-out or drop-out or graduate at or near the bottom of the graduating cohort?

  8. BTDT by Alan+Shutko · · Score: 1

    Doing things differently in every state is the way things have been done since the dawn of public education.

    1. Re:BTDT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....and backwards states tend to stay backwards and say FU to ideas from states that do it better. It's the 'merican way!

    2. Re:BTDT by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2

      Exactly. States can't be counted on to do things better. It too easy for them to be corrupted by corrupt politicians, labor unions, large donors, mass ignorance of voters ect. Just look at all the attempts by states to remove evolution from text books or insert intelligent design.

      If I were all powerful, I'd craft federal legislation that sets a national standard core curiculum, and set up a board that would review requests from states to opt out. If they wanted to expirament they could, but their plan would have to be approved. So they can't do stupid things like drop all math/science/litterature education.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    3. Re:BTDT by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Which of those factors adversely affecting state governments don't apply to te federal government? Moreover, if state X screws up, but state Y does a better job, people can point to X as screwed up and suggest they do things more like Y does. With a single federal standard that won't work. Sure you can do international comparisons, but they're far more difficult and less useful than state to state comparisons. Lastly, you can move to another state much more easily than you can move to another country.

    4. Re:BTDT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Argument is BS you cant move so easy just for the good of the children? With a mortgage and living in debt move? Trash argument. Make the Feds regulate the state jokers! Don't act stupid there is another agenda behind this.

    5. Re:BTDT by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Oh, they all apply, but have a lesser effect on the larger federal government. There isn't nearly as much oversight in corruption of state representitives or state senators as there is in DC. In several states, including the one I live in, most people couldn't name or point out their state reps in a line up. There is little to no reporting on what is going on or why in the state capital.

      Your reasons why comparisions are good, are the reason why I would allow them, but they'd need to be reviewed first to ensure they sound like good ideas and a good faith effort is being launched.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    6. Re:BTDT by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Argument is BS you cant move so easy just for the good of the children? With a mortgage and living in debt move? Trash argument.

      I've known people to do it. In fact I've known people to move to a lower cost of living area and get better schools for theirs kid (e.g. CA to CO). While the "we don't pay more than $27.50/yr in state and local taxes" places almost always have bad schools, places with a high cost of living don't necessarily have great schools.

      Make the Feds regulate the state jokers!

      Tell the fed jokers not to interfere with my state. The cost of living around here is outrageous, but at least the schools are good. I don't want Sen. Cracker pushing down the federal standards so they can keep their $27.50/yr in state and local taxes and not have their kids look like idiots. Massachusetts by itself does very well against the vaunted Asian countries in international competitions, and yes the Mass. results include poor kids in Boston and whatnot. I don't want to jeopardize that by having Mississippi drag Mass. part way down to their level. Tell them to fix up their own act.

      Don't act stupid there is another agenda behind this.

      The agenda is a power grab by the federal government, despite public education being handled just fine by state and local governments since the earliest days of the Republic. Handled well in places that care anyway, and to hell with those that don't. It's also a power play by the likes of the Gates foundation, which seems intent on telling 300M+ people in 50 states what is the best way to educate their kids. Some states and localities are doing quite well without megalomaniac billionaires interfering in representative government.

    7. Re:BTDT by mikael · · Score: 1

      We did that in the UK. Starting in the 1980's, politicians tinkered with the education system. Replaced all the different competing exam boards with one standard national exam board. The only problem is that the party of the day would issue edicts like 50% of the population must go to university. To achieve this goal, they had to improve high-school exam grades. So how did they do that? They started merging high school subjects (physics, chemistry and biology became general science, arithmetic and mathematics became general math). They invented an exam system where there were foundation, general and credit exams for the same subject. Employers wouldn't consider anyone with foundation and general exam grades so those were dropped. That left the universities to sort out the mess once the students started arriving.

      Having separate state and county exam boards compartmentalizes the education system and restricts the amount of damage any vote-desperate education minister or party can do.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  9. Dump Common Core by cyberchondriac · · Score: 0

    It's a disaster. It's pushing the majority of young children far too hard for their age, and making them work inefficiently, where even memorizing the times table isn't good enough now, it all has to be written out ad nauseum. The detailed material they get in their books for 7th grade biology looks like High School material. All this is going to accomplish is to produce confused, bitter adults.. or the worker drones they really want. It's a beautifully evil dichotomy, talking about raising kid's self esteem while doing everything to make them feel stupid and in over their heads. Say one thing, do another. Forcing kids to do "creative writing" is another faux pau, it should be an elective. Not everyone is cut out to write creatively.
    Sure, let's whine about how supposedly far behind the US is to China, India, or Japan.. and then let's look at their teenage suicide rates. Education can certainly be improved, but Common Core is not the answer. What it really boils down to is the cash cow it is to the NEA.
    My kid is bright and used to love science; he used to frequently be on the honor roll is usually student of the month a few times a year. Lately, he's begun to hate school with a passion. Common core is the core of the issue. How is that inspiring him to learn or embrace knowledge? It's the scholastic equivalent of a shotgun wedding, expecting to engender true love at the end of a barrel.. / rant

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    1. Re:Dump Common Core by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may want to look to the teachers or other classroom issues rather than the curriculum for your child's dislike of school.

    2. Re:Dump Common Core by SlickUSA · · Score: 0

      While i do pretty much agree with everything here, i had a small question. How would the NEA benefit as a cash cow from CC down the road?

    3. Re:Dump Common Core by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You seem to have shot yourself in the foot. From a 2004 paper in World Psychology on teen suicide:

      rates per 100,000 young persons aged 15-19
      country year Total

      USA 2000 8
      Japan 2000 4
      China 1999 4

      To be quite blunt, your entire argument seems to be that high standards and expectations are a bad thing. That, of course, flies in the face of the recently validated idea that high expectations lead to high performance

      When I was in third grade, we didn't write out the times tables, we wrote out every single number between one and a thousand in numbers and in letters by ones, one and ten thousand by fives, tens, and fifties, and one and one million by hundreds as homework. It took about a week. That is a form of rote memorization and it works.

      You talk about Common Core producing "confused, bitter adults.. or the worker drones they really want", yet the current curriculum is based more on memorization and parroting back the "correct" answers and gives partial credit for utilizing the correct method even if the answer is wrong (that, by the way, boils down to "it doesn't matter what you get as long as you do things my way") rather than critical thinking which many say is a hallmark of Common Core

      It really sounds like your "bright" kid liked science and school when it was easier and as he has gotten older he has, like so many kids, started to dislike school and you are blaming Common Core instead of actually finding out why your kid doesn't like it. Maybe you should start spending more time with your kid and helping him with his studies, something called "being a parent", instead of making excuses.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    4. Re:Dump Common Core by ranton · · Score: 2

      It's a disaster. It's pushing the majority of young children far too hard for their age

      After reading a great deal about the countries who are improving their schools (in preparation for the schooling of my child), I don't think anyone should claim that our children are being pushed too hard. While we don't need to start pushing our children as hard as the South Koreans, our children are capable of far more than our schools give them credit for. But one reason it is hard to push our children to succeed is that they have parents at home validating that they don't even need to try and rise to the occasion.

      Based on my experience with cousins and one of my brothers, I can in some small way empathize for parents who first understand that their "bright" 3rd graders are turning into average 6th graders. Different children hit the limits of their natural ability at different times (even the very bright ones will hit it sometime in college if they push themselves). Successful parents are able to push their kids to excel beyond their natural abilities (my wife's parents did that very well with her), but the poor parents just blame the school system or society.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    5. Re:Dump Common Core by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Right off the bat, your stats are 10 years old and thus irrelevant, and what of India?
      FYI, both my wife - who used to teach - and I help our son with his homework a great deal, in fact, every single night, and there is no way in hell he could complete it on his own if we didn't. Yes its called being a parent, which is a lot better than being a presumptuous douchbag citing "excuses".
      He's not the only child in this situation either: Jillian is a friend's daughter in his same class, also very bright and studious, and on the verge of tears several times a week. She too is no longer doing well.

      They are stressing these kids out to the max and beyond. My kid is not even sleeping at night. They treat them like they're adults and they're not adults yet. Overly high, unrealistic expectations do not result in better performance, it does exactly the opposite, it destroys confidence, enthusiasm, and appreciation of education. And while I don't believe rote memorization is the key to learning, something simple like the times table is not the place to be getting tough. All the child needs to understand is that 5 x 3 means 5 + 5 + 5, or 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3. There is no call to make them write all that out for every single homework problem assigned, night after night, for half the school year.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    6. Re:Dump Common Core by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      So, you have named two kids in one class and have jumped to the conclusion it must be common core and not the teacher and not the students.

      My stats are the most current I could find on such short notice and there was no information on India. But, what I notice is you offered NOT ONE SINGLE REFERENCE FOR YOUR CLAIMS AT ALL, and that makes your entire post "irrelevant".

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    7. Re:Dump Common Core by slew · · Score: 1

      Interesting rant... So you kid used to be on the honor roll and student of the month, and now he's not. So you want to raise your kid's self esteem yet when things are over their head, you think it makes them feel stupid?

      Can we all have honor students? Is it always possible "smart" people to be in a situation where always know what's going on? Is it possible that parents are making kids feel stupid by overly high expectations?

      Perhaps raising robust kids that don't always know the answer, or need to have constant pats on the back, but have enough self drive to survive that situation is what we should really be teaching in the primary school years. Is memorizing the times table, or dumbing down the curriculum so that the top N% of the students are unchallenged so they can have high self esteem performing some effectively meaningless exercise something even worth striving for?

      Maybe that is something to think about...

    8. Re:Dump Common Core by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      You jump to conclusions in your accusal of my jumping to conclusions (conclusception ..?); I only named two kids here as examples, by no means did I exhaust my experiences with the system with just two anecdotal revelations. I know of other children, and talk to other parent and teachers.
      You are partly correct, in that it does vary somewhat from teacher to teacher, some are certainly better or worse than others. But they don't choose the textbooks, and I still find common core the engine behind it all.

      As much as we won't ever agree on this, sorry to hear about your stalker. I know the feeling.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    9. Re:Dump Common Core by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      No, no it's not about that. We aren't the kind of parents that demand he get straight As or anything remotely like that. It was a bonus that he was on the honor roll, and I mentioned it only because I wanted to point out he wasn't a kid with a dull intellect. I have no problem if he gets Cs once in a while, it happens.
      I'm talking about the stress and workload they're putting on kids. The material and homework I'm seeing is not appropriate for someone who is 12 or 13, it's just too high level. Example: try teaching a 12 year old about genetic counseling, meosis, DNA, and biology they used to teach at a high school level. That's what they're giving him to work on, and often homework questions aren't even covered in their book (that could be the teacher) . They even have to type blogs and whatnot. They're forced to do creative writing. You can't force or teach someone to be creative; you can encourage it, but it shouldn't be part of your language grade.
      As far as dumbing down to the lowest common denominator, I totally agree with you there. Not everyone can be a winner. That's life. Teaching them otherwise is not teaching at all. The times table example is not about that though, that was about unnecessary busy work. Of all things to pound in a kid's head, I don't find the concept of multiplication all that difficult. But for everything else, CC is swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. At least, at his school, anyway.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    10. Re:Dump Common Core by slew · · Score: 1

      I think many folks have a severe misunderstanding of the how common core is related to reading material presented to the students.

      There is no "science-knowledge" common core material. In common core, science has been integrated entirely within language arts: basically learning the ability to take reading material covering a scientific topic and extract information from the reading material, not learn the subject.

      The point is not to teach a12-year old the scientific topics of genetic counseling, meiosis, DNA, etc. It is not *knowledge* based learning, but learning the skills of how to extract facts from written material. At the 12-year old level, for scientific texts, common core wants students to be able to:

      - quote accurately from a text
      - identify 2 or more main ideas from a text and summarize how they are supported by details
      - explain the relationship or interaction between 2 or more ideas in the text
      - determine the meaning of common scientific words appropriate to grade level
      - compare and contrast two texts on the same subject
      - draw on multiple texts to find the answer to a question
      - explain how the author uses certain evidence or reasoning to support a specific point
      - be able to integrate information from multiple texts on the same topic in a writing or speaking exercise

      Not surprisingly, these new "science" skills are difficult for students trained to study "topics" and "facts", or have advanced and/or extra-curricular knowledge of a topic from other sources (say a parent), but is a lazy reader or doesn't usually want to examine and/or integrate information from multiple sources (e.g., likes discovering facts from single-source resources like Wikipedia or other Encyclopedia-like authoritative-resource). The goal of common core is not to learn any specific scientific topics, but to teach students how to discover knowledge in a critical-learning way from multiple sources of information. Hopefully these will be useful skills regardless of the topic presented, but is a radical shift in the goal (and probably not well communicated or taught by teachers used to the old fact-based curriculum).

      I suspect this is why far-left-leaning and far-right-leaning folks seem to be so dead-set against Common-Core. Training people to get information from multiple sources and identify what evidence they are using to support their point of view is tantamount to learning to think for themselves. You might see how this is really scary for political movements that depend on low-information voters who are expected to tow-the-line...

      Don't fret if you child doesn't understand all the nuances of meiosis or DNA, or genetic counseling from reading the supplied texts. The point is for them to learn to be able to read the text and extract ideas, viewpoints, and the logical reasoning (or lack thereof) in the supplied texts. The facts and topics themselves in the reading material are just supposed to be relevant and timely, not canonical parts of a curriculum. Hopefully it will inspire them to do more learning on their own if the topics are interesting (which is why they are supposed to be relevant and timely).

    11. Re:Dump Common Core by perih60 · · Score: 1

      You seem to have shot yourself in the foot. From a 2004 paper in World Psychology on teen suicide:

      rates per 100,000 young persons aged 15-19

      country year Total

      USA 2000 8

      Japan 2000 4

      China 1999 4

      To be quite blunt, your entire argument seems to be that high standards and expectations are a bad thing. That, of course, flies in the face of the recently validated idea that high expectations lead to high performance

      When I was in third grade, we didn't write out the times tables, we wrote out every single number between one and a thousand in numbers and in letters by ones, one and ten thousand by fives, tens, and fifties, and one and one million by hundreds as homework. It took about a week. That is a form of rote memorization and it works.

      You talk about Common Core producing "confused, bitter adults.. or the worker drones they really want", yet the current curriculum is based more on memorization and parroting back the "correct" answers and gives partial credit for utilizing the correct method even if the answer is wrong (that, by the way, boils down to "it doesn't matter what you get as long as you do things my way") rather than critical thinking which many say is a hallmark of Common Core

      It really sounds like your "bright" kid liked science and school when it was easier and as he has gotten older he has, like so many kids, started to dislike school and you are blaming Common Core instead of actually finding out why your kid doesn't like it. Maybe you should start spending more time with your kid and helping him with his studies, something called "being a parent", instead of making excuses.

      half of my schooling was in europe , i totally agree with your opinion , there was one other thing we had to do in regards to arithmatic , that was starting in grade 3 , the teacher would ask the class for example " what is 7 times 9 , the first person to get it correct would go to the front of the class , then another question would be asked , this served 2 purpases , it felt great to be the first one to work out the answer , and it let the teacher know which students needed the most help !

      --
      the power of men in charge of words over men in charge of machines surpasses all wondering S WEIL
  10. Khan Academy Link by retroworks · · Score: 2

    Part of the revamped SAT involves establishing Khan Academy SAT Prep courses. https://www.khanacademy.org/te... The perception has been for years that test takers from wealthier families have key advantages, including taking the test multiple times and paying for special training. Gates has been a backer of Khan Academy already. I think it's a positive step if they do more to level the playing field.

    --
    Gently reply
  11. encouragement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I encourage anyone interested in supporting common core that actually has kids in school right now to look at some of the actual questions in the Houghton Mifflin books. We are teaching our kids to make up answers.

    http://gcsdblogs.org/johnson_sue/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/5-1.pdf

    Here is Pre K-2

    https://twitter.com/NicoleAgonicole/status/402091539850993664/photo/1

    With such awesome, child-appropriate wording as “How does Topic C use the array model to move the learning forward?” it’s surprising this wasn't an English assignment. Not that it works much better as a math assignment. In any case, Common Core deems it worthy of second and third graders.

    1. Re:encouragement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what other countries do. Look at some of the entrance exams for IIT or the Chinese university system, and you'll see how far behind the rest of the world we are.

    2. Re:encouragement by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      I encourage anyone interested in supporting common core that actually has kids in school right now to look at some of the actual questions in the Houghton Mifflin books. We are teaching our kids to make up answers....

      Obviously, if you think that, then the education system failed you.

    3. Re:encouragement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as always the questions at the end of the chapter tend to refer to the lessons of that chapter, they were like that when I was in school too. as for those questions there's nothing "made up" about any of the answers, they're all mathematically done... how many rows in a poster of 50 cards? which answer is 50 evenly divisible by? 3 no, 6, no 9 no, 5 yes... gee i wonder what the answer is... counting by 8s? ohhhh is 11 a prime number? uh, yeah that's a common question in Elementary when you study prime numbers...

      These are word problems, many people throughout history have hated word problems because they make the person think about how to answer it and have to use logic and common sense to figure out the proper math to do them. which is kind of the point, all I see are division questions, sequences and series, and prime vs composite questions on that. which i'm assuming chapter 5 was about.

        as for the other question, i'm sure that wording was used a lot in the class, array model, Topic C might be a continuation from previous questions/lessons. Also looking closer that second link looks like it's a curriculum guide not a workbook so that is for the teacher not the student. and hopefully the teacher isn't a child so it doesn't need to be child appropriate.

  12. How much did BillG pay to "take" the SAT? $20M by theodp · · Score: 1

    Diane Ravitch: "The Gates Foundation spent nearly $200 million to pay for the writing, review, evaluation, dissemination, and promotion of the Common Core standards. It is difficult to find a D.C.-based education organization that has not received millions of dollars from the Gates Foundation to promote the standards. Bill Gates believes in the Common Core standards...And he is not at all concerned that the standards were never field-tested, even though Microsoft would never launch a new product line without extensive field-testing."

    1. Re:How much did BillG pay to "take" the SAT? $20M by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would seem like commenting on articles you submitted would be akin to masturbating to pictures of yourself. Just saying.

  13. Why all the fuss about Common Core? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Common Core is a big thing in NY where I live right now, because the state just voted to suspend its implementation for 2 years. NY already has pretty high standards for high school graduation and, if I'm any indication as a product of it, the curriculum is pretty good too. That doesn't mean that all other states have the same standards, and it seems to me that Common Core was designed to bring all states up to a higher level. As an example, my previous job wanted me to move to Florida, so I played along and did the whole relocation trip thing before telling them, "Sorry." Even the real estate agents who were pushing the place hard told me that my children, if they were smart, would have to be in private school to get a good education...just like Texas, FL values football more than education in high school apparently.

    It seems to me that all the people screaming about how bad this is brought it on themselves. Look at all the press about the evil teachers' unions who have pensions, yearly raises, protect their members and only work 180 days of the year. Also here in NY, there was a big fight to force teachers to be evaluated and ranked like corporate employees get their performance reviews. I'm not a teacher, and I'm totally against that. First off, getting stuck with a class of crappy students can cost you your job, especially early on in your career when you might have to work in a bad school district. Second, teachers are professionals. Once they receive tenure, they should no longer be subject to evaluation and should have a job for life, end of story. Doctors and lawyers aren't stack-ranked -- those of us in private sector jobs who don't like it should fight to get representation.

    Regarding the SAT, I wound up doing much better on the ACT when I took both. The ACT was much closer to what the SAT is slated to become. I remember it focused a lot more on what you were learning in school rather than obscure vocabulary words. I have a horrible time with head-based arithmetic, and the math section of the SAT (when I took it) had no calculators allowed and was basically two 30-minute tests of arithmetic and algebra tricks. I went on to make pretty decent grades at a state university in chemistry, so so much for the predictive factor or SAT scores... :-)

    1. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Max+Threshold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "First off, getting stuck with a class of crappy students can cost you your job . . ."

      No, that's not how the evaluations would work. The improvement of individual students could be tracked and evaluated against the standard.

      "Once they receive tenure, they should no longer be subject to evaluation . . ."

      That should not be true of anyone.

    2. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Second, teachers are professionals. Once they receive tenure, they should no longer be subject to evaluation and should have a job for life, end of story.

      ha, sounds like your "private sector job" is Union Coordinator

    3. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by dmiller1984 · · Score: 1

      "First off, getting stuck with a class of crappy students can cost you your job . . ."

      No, that's not how the evaluations would work. The improvement of individual students could be tracked and evaluated against the standard.

      "Once they receive tenure, they should no longer be subject to evaluation . . ."

      That should not be true of anyone.

      Is it really fair to judge a teacher on a test that doesn't mean anything to the students? Also, most states only have one of these evaluative tests a year, so you're not comparing students to their own scores, you're comparing them to the scores of the previous year's class. So the class of crappy students certainly could cost a teacher their job if their previous class was much better.

    4. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by kaiser423 · · Score: 1

      That's not the case. I know a number of teachers whom improve their students by more than a grade year on the tests within a year, but still get rated horribly in these evaluations. When you're a 5th grade teacher and a number of your kids test below third grade level and you get them up to above 4th grade, but not quite passing 5th grade evaluations you still are very likely to get a bad ranking. Not the teacher's fault at all and I think that we should stop letting kids fail up to the next grade (that would introduce a whole other set of very large problems), but still a problem. You get a bad class, especially a mixed one with some students above grade level by a grade or two and some students below grade level by 3 years and you're going to look very bad during evaluations because those above grade level probably didn't move much and while those below grade level may have moved by more than a grade level, they're still likely not up to their grade level which also looks bad. Unless you have a fairly homogenous class that's near or at grade level, your evaluations are likely to suffer.

    5. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robin Eubanks has done the research and explains it all: invisibleserfscollar.com (I wish she were a better writer though. Nonetheless, the reading of her blog is worth the effort.)

    6. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Once they receive tenure, they should no longer be subject to evaluation and should have a job for life, end of story.

      What? This is how you end up with slack teachers where nobody can understand how they are still teaching. Ridiculous. Teaching is a job, not some kind of alternative lifestyle. You only work 2/3 of the year, really, so those 2/3 you do work better be high quality.

      >Doctors and lawyers aren't stack-ranked -- those of us in private sector jobs who don't like it should fight to get representation.

      Are you *** kidding? They absolutely are. Lawyers are ranked by the partners based on client satisfaction and billable hours, and suffer probably more than other groups because of it (a bad client can cost you a career). Doctors are somewhat more immune, but mostly because they own their own practices.

      You are in outer space, friend.

    7. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, most states only have one of these evaluative tests a year, so you're not comparing students to their own scores, you're comparing them to the scores of the previous year's class.

      If that's how the test is being interpreted, the administrators are idiots.
      You have test results for each class from last year, look at the difference between those results and the results from this year. That gives you the change in test results as affected by the teacher under scrutiny.

      This isn't quantum loop gravity, if your only argument against holding teachers to a standard is that the administration is too stupid to apply one correctly, then it's time to nuke the whole district and start over.

    8. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      Also, most states only have one of these evaluative tests a year, so you're not comparing students to their own scores, you're comparing them to the scores of the previous year's class.

      If that's how the test is being interpreted, the administrators are idiots.
      You have test results for each class from last year, look at the difference between those results and the results from this year. That gives you the change in test results as affected by the teacher under scrutiny.

      This isn't quantum loop gravity, if your only argument against holding teachers to a standard is that the administration is too stupid to apply one correctly, then it's time to nuke the whole district and start over.

      I agree that makes more sense, but I'm betting someone pointed out there's no way to evaluate kindergarten teachers that way. Also some amount of difficulty in tracking students that have moved around. The first approach is easier to implement. Still inferior, but much easier to actually do.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    9. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by dmiller1984 · · Score: 1

      Also, most states only have one of these evaluative tests a year, so you're not comparing students to their own scores, you're comparing them to the scores of the previous year's class.

      If that's how the test is being interpreted, the administrators are idiots. You have test results for each class from last year, look at the difference between those results and the results from this year. That gives you the change in test results as affected by the teacher under scrutiny.

      This isn't quantum loop gravity, if your only argument against holding teachers to a standard is that the administration is too stupid to apply one correctly, then it's time to nuke the whole district and start over.

      It's harder than it seems. First of all, it's the states who administer these exams, not the schools. The public schools have no choice as to how or when these exams are administered. Students are held to different standards during each school year so comparing them to their scores from the previous year doesn't make sense since the material isn't the same. Also, how do you evaluate teachers who teach non-core subjects such as music, PE, or computer science? The whole data driven movement in schools is fine, but not everything in education can be quantified. Teaching is more of an art than it is a science.

    10. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      One answer - Common Core + No Child Left Behind = ways to screw over schools, teachers and children.

      Remove the funding based on mandatory tests (i.e., NCLB) that have been proven to be gamed, and the ideas of Common Core might make sense to implement.

      If NCLB is a pit trap, Common Core for many schools becomes the punji stakes hiding in it.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    11. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      They've actually come up with standardized tests for PE now. I wish this were a joke. I really do.

      http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/06/standardized_tests_for_the_arts_is_that_a_good_idea_.html === Just the first reference I was able to find.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      In our school district, we fell into the Common Core trap. We got some federal money but then the unfunded mandates meant we had to spend much, MUCH more. And we get told we can't back out without repaying that federal money... which is, of course, gone now.

      So now we're making drastic cuts to pay for the Common Core stuff and our kids' education is taking a nose dive. But at least Pearson will get paid for their tests!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    13. Re:Why all the fuss about Common Core? by Max+Threshold · · Score: 1

      Then the problem is the algorithm used to evaluate those teachers, not the fact that they are being evaluated.

  14. The problem with the education system by kawabago · · Score: 1

    The education system is failing because it is designed to educate a student that doesn't exist, the average student. Every child is different and every child needs different instruction at different times in their development. The education system needs to be completely thrown out. We should design a new system from the ground up that adapts to the needs of the student instead of the forcing the student to adapt to the needs of the system. I have no idea how to do that, but if I studied how children learn I'm sure I could come up with something. It isn't impossible, it just takes vision and courage. Ok, that's impossible.

    1. Re:The problem with the education system by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      There are people who do study this very thing, but they're not well liked within even the education colleges because they come up with the same conclusion you did - the education system as-is isn't that great and requires radical change to be fixed. And money. Much, much more money to shrink classroom sizes and to provide proper materials for kids. Younger children learn best in groups of no more than a dozen. Older kids actually benefit from even smaller groups for some subjects (math), but larger groups for others (music.) Few school systems have the resources to try such an experimental approach, but those that do have pretty good results.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    2. Re:The problem with the education system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is another issue

      http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103440/drug-free-treatment#beta-dialog-container

      Basically learning is to put it bluntly boring. If you make it engaging sure it is easier to teach. However, sometimes you need sit down shutup and study even though it is intensely boring. My parents used this method on me for years. As I could not sit still for more than 10-20 mins at a time. Shut up and study works good. No you cant play outside this is study time, no you cant play video games this is study time. If I had a cell phone at the time they would have taken it away to make me focus.

      Sometimes what people need is focus. It takes someone with a modicum of authority to say 'shut the hell up and read and we will be talking about it when you are done'.

    3. Re:The problem with the education system by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Oh heck, I have that problem as an adult too. Strict Workflow (formerly known as Strict Pomodoro) works wonders.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    4. Re:The problem with the education system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is another issue

      http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103440/drug-free-treatment#beta-dialog-container

      Basically learning is to put it bluntly boring. If you make it engaging sure it is easier to teach. However, sometimes you need sit down shutup and study even though it is intensely boring. My parents used this method on me for years. As I could not sit still for more than 10-20 mins at a time. Shut up and study works good. No you cant play outside this is study time, no you cant play video games this is study time. If I had a cell phone at the time they would have taken it away to make me focus.

      Sometimes what people need is focus. It takes someone with a modicum of authority to say 'shut the hell up and read and we will be talking about it when you are done'.

      STOP IT! Damn, now you're trying to say that *parents* should actually pay attention, work with their kids, and get involved in their education?!?! Parents don't have time for that, they need those publicly paid 'babysitters' to do all that while they're either at work or 'busy' making more babies for the system. (/sarcasm... kinda)

    5. Re:The problem with the education system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The education system is failing because it is designed to educate a student that doesn't exist, the average student.

      WRONG!

      You need to look beyond the "cosmetic" features of this system, beyond the publicity, hype, and discourse based on what the system is alleged to be, and see it for what it actually is. Our education system operates exactly as designed, and performs exactly as its designers directed. It fails the students, or more clearly stated, does not properly educate, because it does not teach children how to self-actualize with free-ranging, informed, independent and creative minds capable of discerning truth, and backed with the power of rhetoric. That end product would scare the daylights out of the a*holes who produced our current dystopian nightmare. Oddly enough, the current the system is actually designed to produce "average" students, molding their minds, attitudes and emotional reactions like an industrial product.

      By the way, how much of Gate's "Education" money do you think is spent on propaganda and political sway, rather than actually providing the goods of Education? Would one million be too much? How many than?

    6. Re:The problem with the education system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (it's me, anon again, adding to above)

      I do note that you mean well, kawabago, wanting to fix things and all, but what we're really talking about here is who gets to mold society and the direction of our country, and who doesn't. The group who currently does, does not want those who don't to gain the ability. So their school system ensures the status quo by not really educating, as well as by keeping "regular folk" pitted against each other.

    7. Re:The problem with the education system by slew · · Score: 1

      I takes more than vision and courage. It takes changing some of the underlying goals.

      1. People that normally exit the system (graduate) should have a marketable set of skills and knowledge. (economic goal)
      2. Everyone should have access to the same learning opportunities. (equality goal)
      3. A majority of people will exit the system at approximately the same age. (social stability goal)

      I think any real change will require removing all three of these goals. I don't think it is politically viable to remove any of them and still have system that would be likely fundable by the government. All the vision, courage and studying how children learn won't change that.

  15. Oops - Make that $200 Million by theodp · · Score: 1

    My bad.

  16. Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

    The Common Core is the one thing in modern politics that is capable of generating agreement between right-wing conspiracy nuts and left-wing conspiracy nuts: the Left hates it because they think it's an attempt to undermine teacher's union, and the Right hates it because they think the Feds are trying to undermine local control of schools. So everybody hates it.

    But seriously, have you actrually read the standardds. There's nothing especially objectionable in them, and there is a lot to like. Implementation, particularly an over-emphasis on standardized testing, could well present a problem, but the standards themselves are pretty clearly positive.

    1. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the standards mean jack if they cant be implemented in a good way..

      So far - many of the homework sheets Ive seen attributed to CC have been laughable at best - especially the math. Some of the stuff is just a replacement for counting on your fingers! As kids we were told to use our heads not our fingers.

    2. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But seriously, have you actrually [sic] read the standardds [sic] [corestandards.org].

      If common core is the answer to education, then it is obviously implemented stupidly by very stupid people. http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/11/02/1540249/a-math-test-thats-rotten-to-the-common-core Were these math questions designed by morons, or someone deliberately trying to sabotage the educational system. Story problems certainly have their place, but teach students how to do the actual math first. And keep things relevant, don't confuse first graders by comparing pennies to cups of coffee http://roundtheinkwell.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/the-math-test.pdf

    3. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Common core standards are, in fact, lower than the standards that were required by many states. New York voted to suspend it for two years to keep stricter standards. Indiana has a bill sitting on the governor's desk to completely step away from common core to utilize tougher standards.

      A large reason common core has an allure is because of bad effects that came about from NCLB. It was causing a lot of schools to face sanction over kids not testing to standard (which is the state's standard) because they had a tough standard. You then saw waivers for NCLB popping up all over the place. So if you lower standards you're less likely to face NCLB sanctions over children not testing to your standard.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    4. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      Story problems certainly have their place, but teach students how to do the actual math first. And keep things relevant, don't confuse first graders by comparing pennies to cups of coffee http://roundtheinkwell.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/the-math-test.pdf

      Not sure what you mean by actual math: calculating with numerals? As I understand it, one of the main points of common core is to get away from doing calculations by applying memorized tables of addition/subtraction/multiplication, because that's memorizing, not math. The story problems are the math.

      The pennies-to-coffee cups thing in that over-hyped sample test is a little weird, for sure, but the rest of the test appeared entirely reasonable to me. Even though the terminology and notation were unfamiliar to me, I was able to quickly figure out the system and understand how to construct correct answers to the problems. Because I understand math, not just how to calculate.

      Her's a few mor typos to mak you hapy.

    5. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, invisibleserfscollar.com is ground zero for info on what is happening in the schools. Put up with the complex sentence structure there and read!

    6. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      Really, invisibleserfscollar.com is ground zero for info on what is happening in the schools. Put up with the complex sentence structure there and read!

      I'm sorry: did I say that Right Wing conspiracy nuts think Common Core is an attempt by the Feds to take over the schools? I stand corrected. They think it's a conspiracy by the United Nations to take over the schools.

      I'm surprised that web site didn't mention chemtrails.

    7. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Here's an example of Common Core math. Someone tried to calculate their tip based on Common Core: https://twitter.com/BooyahSuckaFoo/status/435506648774230016/photo/1

      And, yes, this is how my boys are learning to do math.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    8. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because I understand math, not just how to calculate.

      And that is exactly the point. YOU understand math, but the first graders may not unless taught. Rote memorization can only take an individual so far.

    9. Re:Common Core: uniting the Right and the Left by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      And, yes, this is how my boys are learning to do math.

      My daughter is not in the Common Core yet, but this is how she is learning to do math at home. Last weekend, we worked on prime numbers and factorization with Legos. Take a stack of twelve legos:
      "Can you divide twelve legos into twos?" Kid pulls the stack of twelve into piles of two, with none left over: "YES!"
      "Can you divide twelve legos into threes?" Kid pulls stacks of two apart to make stacks of three, with none left over: "YES!"
      "Can you divide twelve legos into fours?" Kid pulls four stacks of three apart to make three stacks of four, none left over. "YES!"
      "Can you divide twelve legos into fives?" Kid makes two stacks of five, with two blocks left over. "NO!"

      Hmm...

      Now try eleven legos...

  17. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless anyone thinks this is a part of some devious Microsoft plot, who cares how much Bill Gates is involved?

    If you want to attack common core, attack the program, not the people who support it.

    1. Re:Who cares? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      If Bill Gates is involved, I suspect some devious plot, though not necessarily Microsoft based. Actually, history would suggest that it's also Microsoft based, but he hasn't been in charge for awhile now, so perhaps he's got something else to push.

      Every time I've checked one of his "benevolent" actions, it's turned out to be control motivated (or wealth motivated) so I'm now suspicious whenever his name appears.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  18. I think this is a major mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The entire American education system is broken. This a band-aid that doesn't address the real issues at play. It also continues to entirely ignore the systems that work so well in Finland and elsewhere. If we want to get serious, then we need to begin to model our system after those in the world that WORK. Not keep trying new systems and plans that fly counter to them year after year.

  19. More like hundreds of millions of dollars by theodp · · Score: 2

    Follow the story link to the Gates Foundation Common Core grants, or check out this post from Diane Ravitch: "The Gates Foundation spent nearly $200 million to pay for the writing, review, evaluation, dissemination, and promotion of the Common Core standards. It is difficult to find a D.C.-based education organization that has not received millions of dollars from the Gates Foundation to promote the standards. Bill Gates believes in the Common Core standards...And he is not at all concerned that the standards were never field-tested, even though Microsoft would never launch a new product line without extensive field-testing."

    1. Re:More like hundreds of millions of dollars by aestrivex · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has launched tons of product lines without extensive field testing. For instance, windows 8.

  20. Indoctrination by fredprado · · Score: 0

    That is why we shouldn't allow governments to manage education. They can pay for it but should never manage it, otherwise it will inevitably become a tool of indoctrination as it is happening with the "Common Core".

  21. Never mind you have to have money.. by korthof · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have two aunts that make a total of about 15k a year working there asses off in retail as single mothers. Bother fathers passed away. They can not afford a laptop (family made sure they got em). A requirement of Cores is keyboarding for homework. They are expected to pay for everything in this program even if they cant afford it. This nation thinks everyone can afford a monthly payment, forced payment for phones, insurance, healthcare. and If you can't pay the $300 a month in "affordable" programs, you are fined beyond recovery. Yes we have to move forward, but this shit has to stop, we need to provide help if we are going to require instead of fining the poor.

  22. Uhhh... by the_skywise · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Coleman stressed that Khan Academy and CollegeBoard will be the only places in the world that students will be able to encounter free materials for the exam that are "focused on the core of the math and literacy that matters most."

    Does that throw up red flags for anybody else?

    Why are we supporting an educational policy where a private corp gets to not only dictate who gets "scholastically approved" but also controls the flow of information used to prepare for said approval?

    1. Re:Uhhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you see the connection? Microsoft Certifications applied to public education. After it is up and running more and more study centers, boot camps, etc. will follow. Private schools that exist to get students to pass the CC tests. An entire industry will be built around this. Teacher unions see the threat. And the two-tiered school system will still exist: public vs. private.

    2. Re:Uhhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coleman stressed that Khan Academy and CollegeBoard will be the only places in the world that students will be able to encounter free materials for the exam that are "focused on the core of the math and literacy that matters most."

      Does that throw up red flags for anybody else?

      Why are we supporting an educational policy where a private corp gets to not only dictate who gets "scholastically approved" but also controls the flow of information used to prepare for said approval?

      I myself have seen the red flags as a current student in a certain western college of some note. In English classes, I saw teachers attempting to gear students writing toward a standard that emphasizes a lack of value in fluent writing. Instead of giving students a measure of courage in the composition of an English essay, they are instead given a warning. This warning has the effect of saying: stay away from using advanced, complex vocabulary: consider your audience. The underlying tone of this argument given by faculty has two parts;

      1. We are moving towards a visual society.
      2. This is a very diverse school and some students are new to English.

      My question in this case is, where does this place the talented highly fluent writer? Some of the best writers in history never wrote to an audience that was moving towards a visual society. These very same writers who were taught in high school.

      This particular school receives a lot of funding from the Gates Foundation. By placing the control in the hands of one entity that dictates the futures of many educational disciplines and rather than support diversity, they are widening the divide.

    3. Re:Uhhh... by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Because there is a certain segment of the population that believes that private enterprise is the solution to every single problem, regardless of the results.

      Other people think K-12 education should be handled at the local level, that parent and teacher organizations should work in the local schools to provide the appropriate programs to educate their children given the budget and local constraints and that the role of the state is only to set minimum (and I do mean minimum) standards and that there should be no role for either private companies or the federal government.

    4. Re:Uhhh... by dbc · · Score: 1

      Well, so there is guaranteed access to free study materials. It doesn't mean that pay-as-you-go study materials won't also be available. I'm having a hard time finding a huge problem with there being free materials availble to everyone, and alternative materials available on the market. If the free materials suck, that is a problem, in that the population that can only afford the free materials is *still* at a disadvantage. But given Kahn's record, I don't see that happening. My daughter just went through SAT's this year, and used two different study guides because the material is presented differently and she connected better with one than the other.

      What disadvantaged kids are more in need of is someone to tell them how important the SAT is, and to get them pointed at *any* study materials at all, and encourage them to use it. The conversations that I hear among helicopter parents here in the suburbs where I live now (people pay up to live where I do because of the schools) are light-years removed from the conversations I overheard as a kid, where for a good 1/4-1/3 of my contemporaries, their highest ambition in life was to have a dairy farm that milked more cows than their dad's farm did. My parents, fortunately, emphasized education. But for kids that don't come from that culture, they need to be, quite literally, led to and shown the study materials and benefits thereof.

  23. Put it another way by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Would we all enjoy an announcement that the Koch Brothers will offer to fully-fund public education on the state level, but only if the state agrees to teach only the political, economic and scientific theory that the brothers approve (with violations being an instant termination)?

    Public Education should be just that, not a plaything of the 1%; not for ideological reasons nor for 30 pieces of silver to cover budget shortfalls.

  24. 45 States? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:45 States? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite - In the Indiana legislature the law was amended so that the new "custom standards" had to be compatible with federal standards.

      In effect, it still has to comply with Common Core.

      It was enough of a change that the author of the bill will now vote against it.

  25. Way to slant it, there. by Slartibartfast · · Score: 1

    Common Core is not perfect. Not much is. But the language used in this post was well and truly slanted. I suggest that, in the future, you avoid politicking in your posting, and instead be an objective reporter of facts. Words like "acknowledge" strongly imply an associated guilt. Likewise, the rest of the OP's slant.

  26. What is a "vocational school?" by westlake · · Score: 1

    Many of the most successful countries with test results, have a school system where only the best continue on to more schooling the rest go to vocational schools.

    I am not sure what a "vocational school" is in a post-industrial environment. I am not even sure any more what "best" means in this context.

    1. Re:What is a "vocational school?" by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Vocational Schooling or we call them apprenticeships.
      In general training to do particular work that doesn't require a college degree to do such work.

      A lot of this stuff our college system as absorbed into its structure (Usually in a 2 year degree) but it really shouldn't be.
      Jobs such as:
      Electricians, Plumbers, Mechanics, Barbers, Truck Drivers, Welders... would quality.
      However other job professions which are covered in colleges could be done too. Like: Nursing, Day Care, even Programming, and other IT jobs.
      Sure you need training, the jobs may pay well, however you really don't need the full robust education of a college degree.

      American Schools are made to push kids into college. Colleges are made to push people into Grad School Grad school is designed to get PHD students, PHD students are prepped to be Professors. Now this isn't bad and there is a lot of good work as a side effect that is going on, however people want job skills to get a job. Right now our culture is saying you need a college education, so they get one. Because a college education is needed for a basic quality of life, that means the standards to get there have been lowered.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:What is a "vocational school?" by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      There is no post-industrial environment. Not here or anywhere else. All of our machinery doesn't magically fix itself or design newer versions. Pipe-dreams don't make for good social agendas. In fact, social agenda aren't good.

    3. Re:What is a "vocational school?" by gIobaljustin · · Score: 1

      Because a college education is needed for a basic quality of life

      No, it's not. I'm not going to deny that it can be difficult to find an employer who realizes that pieces of paper don't indicate that you know what you're doing, but it is, at least, possible. I'm one example of a person who found an employer willing to actually give me a chance and test my skills.

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    4. Re:What is a "vocational school?" by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Yet.

      But automation is continuing at a rapid pace. Currently the designs are such that complex machines are often replaced rather than being repaired. (When is the last time you heard of a disk drive or a keyboard being repaired? Refridgerator?) And that's NOW, not when those currently in grade schoold have graduated from college/vocational school.

      FWIW, I would have no idea what to recommend people learn...beyond certain basics: logic, critical thinking, how to evaluate reliability, etc.

      A few decades ago I recommended that one should "be a garbage man", on the grounds that this would probably not be quickly automated. Well, automation hasn't advanced quite as quickly as I expected, but garbageman has remained a viable career path, if not a particularly attractive one. Part of the reason for this recommendation was that there aren't many openings in top management, and they are the ones who decide what jobs won't be automated, so that's the last job that will go. Today, though, I'm not so sure. Automated trucks are on the horizon, and that will eliminate huge swaths of jobs. And garbage collection has already been redesigned to increase the automation. (I'm not real inspired by the efficiency of the automation, but it has reduced the number of workers/truck and, perhaps, increased the speed of collection.) Further redesign is clearly needed, however...and by the time that happens, it's quite likely that the truct will drive itself.

      Supermarket checkout clerk? RFID tags are already changing that. Currently there's no requirement that the cashier be more than very minimally literate. Self-checkout is spreading. How far will it spread?

      Have you heard about the automated paralegal? It does searches through legal cases for useful references. This is work that used to be delegated to the entry lawyers of a firm. I don't know how widespread it is, but it's clearly something that is amenable to improvement.

      Etc. I can't predict where automation will strike next, or how rapid will be its proliferation. But predicting what will be needed 20 years from now seems more than a bit risky. I might venture 5 years. At 10 years I'd be likely to overestimate the changes. At 20, however, I'd be likely to grossly underestimate the changes. That's enough time for something to be expected to come out of left field that will totally change things in unexpected ways. And education is supposed to prepare one for the long term.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    5. Re:What is a "vocational school?" by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      The USA is the only country that thinks it is in a post-industrial environment. The rest of the world's nations still have factories, and those that didn't do now. America's youth drank the Kool-Aid into believing that the magic of a college degree would alter the economics of supply and demand, as though all we would have to do is sit around buying and selling stocks and bonds to each other and spend the profits on cheap imports from the third world.

  27. Where's Important Things Like Logic by mx+b · · Score: 1

    The thing that bugs me about this attempt at reform isn't so much what they have done, but what they HAVEN'T done. There's things to like in the new standards, for sure. The math standards seem pretty decent (without studying them closely I can't say for sure; I wonder if possibly we're going TOO easy on our kids, I'd like to assume our kids can be smart if we push them and make some basic level of calculus-type mathematics part of the standard). The english standards are a bit harder to follow because they are categorized weirdly, so I will admit I am not too sure what is in there, so the following rant maybe should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I think these standards are missing an important question -- why are THESE the important topics we should focus on? As an educator myself, teaching fresh-out-of-high-school students up to 40 year olds returning to school, the major thing I see across all age and economic groups is a lack of understanding of basic LOGIC. Without a good grounding in logic, in being able to make logical inferences and spot fallacies, it is extremely hard to talk mathematics with these people, because they simply cannot follow a train of logic. It bewilders them, and they either give up or they start to believe it's just "magic formulas" that I made up and have no grounding in the real world. 'I just memorize and pass the class so I can move on with life' is their mantra, because they think the subject is a waste of time, because they do not understand how it works. But that's sad because logic is the basis of mathematics, which has tremendous influence on most of the sciences. It's all logic! And it will also help people more so than learning quadratic equations, as it will help them spot fallacies in politicians' arguments, and prepare them for more knowledge-based jobs in the new economy -- network engineering, programming, electronics troubleshooting, etc. It's all logic. I try my best to add some basic logic skills to the math classes I teach to help people out with this, and it seems to work -- I have had consistently good reviews, and many students tell me they really appreciate the down-to-earth-ness of explaining why the formulas work and what they are doing. People are not stupid, they just don't know any better yet, and throwing upper-level concepts at them before they are ready is counter-productive.

    tl;dr: If logic is not a part of this standard (which AFAIK, it isn't, I've certainly never heard anyone mention it and the website gives no easily-spotted indication otherwise), then I think the new standards are entirely missing the point of a reform.

  28. Bill Gates = World Class Evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Common Core has but one purpose- to collapse the ability and confidence of the vast majority of students in all the core subjects. It is based on a clever psychological 'trick' that is purposely designed to maximise the possibility of media attacks against critics of the abusive scheme.

    You can split students of a given subject into 3 common groupings.
    -Group A = Naturally gifted/self-motivating (let's say the top 10% of the class)
    -Group C = Naturally educationally 'retarded' (let's say the bottom 10% of the class)
    -Group B = the middle majority (in this simplification, 80% of the class)

    Now it is ESSENTIAL for Bill Gates' purposes that Common Core teaching methods COLLAPSE the scores of group B, while leaving the scores of Group A and Group C untouched. The trick is to teach, say MATHS, with convoluted and frequently illogical methods that simply confuse Group B, but seem no more difficult to Group C than usual, and challenge members of Group A to see the 'new' methods as a 'puzzle box'.

    Now, as I say, group B's scores (and more importantly, confidence) collapses, leading to Bill Gates' next stage- the carefully co-ordinated attack on the critics (see many of the comments here, for instance). Gates produces detailed "rebuttal" scripts to use against parents, concerned politicians and academics, and others.

    1) Attack the pupil. Say the reason the pupil does poorly is because they are LAZY, watch too much TV, play too many video games. More homework is needed. A longer teaching day is needed.
    2) Attack the teaching ethic in the school by comparing it to the 'FOREIGN' ideal. So, kids in Korea, or Japan, or Germany, or Singapore, or whatever faraway land is chosen for the propaganda do 'better' using the 'same' teaching materials.
    3) Attack the parents. Say the problem is that parents INTERFERE, attempting to teach their kids 'better' ways of learning the subject, confusing the child. Point out that the teachers are the EXPERTS, and if the parents don't back off and let the teachers do their job WITHOUT interference, the parents are 'abusing' their kids.
    4) Attack the critics of Common Core by using control words like "DENIER". Use the same methods as Team Gates uses against those that challenge the propaganda of Man-made 'Global Warming'.
    5) Use the FAKE logic that because Group A and Group C do not experience significant changes in their scores under Common Core, there must be something inherently wrong with Group B.
    6) Use paid reputation managers to flood all outlets with fake justifications for the usefulness of 'Common Core' teaching methods.
    7) Attack the critics of Bill "Eugenics" Gates in the usual ways.

    Bill Gates was a multi-millionaire before he even used his family's money to buy up other people's software, pass it off as his own, and start Microsoft. The Gates family has a long and disgusting history at the forefront of the US Eugenics movement. The Eugenics movement arose out of the need to justify US slavery of 'black' Humans in the 19th Century (when quoting the Old Testament as the reason that such Crimes against Humanity were OK was becoming unacceptable). The US Eugenics movement and the KKK are two sides of the same coin, and they walked literally hand-in-hand in the early part of the 20th Century.

    Gates isn't just the prime force behind Common Core. This depravity also gave the World (but mostly the USA)
    -the sickening 'inBloom' full surveillance database that tracks every aspect of every child in the USA. Gates created 'inBloom' in partnership with Rupert "Fox News" Murdoch, and named the project for the way Victorian Paedophiles described their child victims ("in bloom, and ripe for the picking").

    -the unthinkably evil NSA domestic spy-platform, the Xbox One. An always on 'super-computer' attaches to a sensor platform which consists of:
    1) a microphone array designed to track multiple simultaneous conversations, including those in other rooms from the console
    2) a high-definition camera that sees perfectly in the dark

    1. Re:Bill Gates = World Class Evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God, shut up you fucking kooky nut. If I wanted paranoid ramblings I'd go down to the corner and listen to the other (besides yourself) dumb homeless asshole ranting and raving.

  29. Original common core contributors won’t sign by Theovon · · Score: 1

    There’s this one opponent to common core that made a presentation based entirely on quotes from people who originally contributed to and supported common core: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF16la1IiGI”. Originally it seemed like a good idea, but the cirricula kept getting watered down so badly that students wouldn’t leave high school with enough education to get into college. There are those who like to suggest that common core is now only about indoctrinating students with {liberal | conservative} ideas. I don’t know enough about that. But if you can’t do basic algebra when you leave high school, you’re in trouble.

    This “no child left behind” idea has only resulted in the general cirriculim being dumbed down. You can’t fail anyone, so you have to teach something so lame that any idiot can do it, and then even the smart kids don’t learn anything.

  30. Failed Concept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This concept has been implemented on Virginia and known as SOL, Standards of Learning.

    It has failed miserably, causing not only no real learning by students, by systemic cheating on the part of teachers and administrators.

  31. Your source is biased by rsborg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not going to discuss content, but if your entire sourcing is from the "Tea Party News Network", everything looks like liberal/socialist/marxist conspiracy.

    You don't happen to have any non-biased news sources, or corroborating links do you?

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    1. Re:Your source is biased by amxcoder · · Score: 0

      If you don't link the source links I provided, then look them up yourself. I did a quick google search and picked a couple out of the top 2 just to prove the point that a previous commenter made (that wasn't me). I did not pick these from any specific website for a reason. I knew if I posted without a link, someone would have shot me down that citations are needed. So I provided citations, and now they're not "good enough". Well I gave examples with citations, if you don't believe those news agencies, do your own freaking google search to see what you find, it shouldn't be hard, and you can cherry pick them from what ever news site you wish, I have better things to do than research the topic for you. BTW, do you mean "non-biased" such as MSNBC, and CNN or something, cause the last time I looked, just about EVERY news organization these days is biased to one side or the other. MSNBC (considered a major news agency) is one of the worst offenders. So in your book, what is non-biased?

    2. Re:Your source is biased by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Some citations are worse than no citations. Or do you think linking to timecube guy is somehow respectable when discussing the failings of the current physics models? Any of the major news agencies are better than a site affiliated with a particular party.

      Also, you make a claim, you better back it up. Not up to us to do your research for you.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    3. Re:Your source is biased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rofl. Non-biased news sources you say. I'm sure you'd be A-ok with an MSNBC link you fucking hypocrite rat queef.

  32. Bill Gates will die some day. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And that is by far his most redeeming quality.

    Those who know enough about Microsoft and how it
    achieved its position in the marketplace know that Bill
    Gates is not a visionary or a genius, and that Bill Gates
    is a conniving little twat who took advantage of things like
    his mother Mary being on a first name basis with John Akers.

    Fuck Bill Gates. Why couldn't he have gotten cancer instead of Steve
    Jobs who actually produced things worth having ?

    1. Re:Bill Gates will die some day. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1993 called, they want their drooling retard (you) back. You really are a dumb shit.

  33. Changed b/c ACT is kicking its A$$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The biggest reason they're changing is because so many more students are taking (read paying) to take the ACT, for a few reasons.
    1. The SAT truly screwed up when it added the writing component - who wants to sit ALL morning and into the afternoon with very few breaks and no opportunity to eat?
    2. States are using the ACT to measure "Career and College Readiness" as part of the Race to the Top.

  34. Drop out, pro 1H, great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the "help" Bill.

  35. Better Common Core than... by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Better Common Core than allowing the fundamentalists and fringe groups to continue pushing crap like "Young Earth" ideologies as "just a theory" equivalent to evolution and the big bang.

    If it weren't for all the wingnuts and fools in Texas and elsewhere pushing that kind of crap, there wouldn't have been a rebellion against their bullshit through standardization like Common Core.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  36. Seems legit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look a problem! Lets throw money at it until we get bored and move on to something else!

  37. A lot of misconceptions by demonbug · · Score: 3, Informative

    There seem to be a lot of misconceptions and outright ignorance about Common Core here. Common Core is basically just a restructuring of when different subjects are introduced, and how much emphasis is placed on each area at each grade level. For example, in mathematics where previously you might have an algebra class one year, then a geometry class another year, then trigonometry another year, etc., this might get reorganized so that material from each of these courses is introduced at different times in what proponents claim is a more logical structure that achieves better results (and there does seem to be a lot of evidence to support it). So instead of Algebra in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th, you might get some parts of what was in the Algebra class in 6th grade, a little more in 7th, some more in 8th, while also being introduced to Geometry earlier and having that spread across multiple years. You end up in the same place (well, hopefully on average you end up a little more advanced by the end), but at any given point in their schooling students will be ahead of where they would have been under the past system in some areas, and behind in others - by design.

    However, this rearrangement of coursework opens a can of worms, which is where most of the fighting comes in. Because things are introduced at different stages and in a different order, an entirely new curriculum is required. It is left to the states to decide what curriculum to use, and there are a lot of choices - much of it produced by commercial entities, some of it good and some of it really, really bad. This isn't a function of Common Core, per se, but merely a function of lots of groups taking advantage of a major re-write to try to get their product included in what is selected at the state or local level.

    Likewise, since the order things are introduced changes, all of the standardized tests are no longer relevant - children might be learning some of what falls into "algebra" in the current system in the 5th grade, so a standardized assessment test would need to take this into account. Opponents latch onto this and complain that too much is expected of the students, because they are being tested on something "too advanced". Likewise, something that students previously learned in the 4th grade might not be introduced until the 6th - and again, opponents latch onto this because the standards have been "lowered". It's easy to cherry pick examples that go either way (which this comment section is rife with), because compared to what most of us experienced, it will feel "off".

    The vast majority of the arguments against Common Core aren't actually about Common Core, rather they are about some of the curricula that have been developed to meet Common Core's structure. Just like there can be a fight every time a new science textbook is chosen in Kansas (or anywhere else), everyone is arguing over what the curriculum should look like, and it is all happening at once. So, lots of people trying to get their own political slant into the new curriculum, which is the same problem as always - it's just happening all at once across pretty much every subject.

    Now, there are certainly objections or questions to ask regarding Common Core. For one, are the benefits of the rejiggering of subjects enough to outweigh the costs of introducing the system? What do you do about students who started with one system - can you transition them to the new standards effectively, or will we have several years worth of students with glaring holes in their education? And last (and probably the biggest question, and the one that has driven many one-time supporters to oppose common core), how do we ensure that the curriculum chosen by my school district/state/whatever is going to be effective and not just an amalgamation of commercial offerings selected through a combination of ideology, lobbying, and kickbacks - the educational outcomes are dependent on the effectiveness of the curriculum, and there is no guarantee that new ones being developed and offered will achieve that (and, for the reasons mentioned, a lot of reasons they might not).

  38. Common Core is TERRIBLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    common core is crappy. my kids who are both A students failed math this year. They can do the math
    the regular and normal way that we all grew up doing. now in order to solve 42-22 it takes 6 steps?
    Are you serious? my kids can do this math problem in their head and they still get it wrong in class under the new methods...
    Also a kid that sits next to them (a neighbor) got 10*14 correct by answering the solution was 168 because he was able to explain
    his logic and how he got the 168 as the answer. Are you serious? Spelling for 5th graders: "Venture capitalists are always greedy. Spell Venture"
    Are you serious? Not only is the word already spelled but the sentence is a subliminal message by gates and his cronies on the Left (the 1% liberal progressive elitist).. STOP COMMON CORE

  39. There should be a private test suite by Marrow · · Score: 1

    The parents should be able to administer a test to their children at the end of each year and it should measure the academic level. This level should be independent of whatever crap the school, the Man, or the SATs company is spewing out.
    People are worried about test tampering (See Atlanta Schools) and racial demotivators and various education problems. But no one is giving the Parents an independent test to see if their child needs help or if their school is a sham.

    Lets get the parents a way to independently, privately, determine the aptitude of their children for their age and level of schooling and take the control away from the those who would pervert education for their own twisted ends.

  40. Gates’ Foundation agenda in education .. by DTentilhao · · Score: 1

    "Concocted by the same expert cadre that’s brought us every post-1970 education boondoggle, and resting on the same gross unfamiliarity with actual classrooms and students, the arbitrary, biased, technology-laden, assessment-obsessed Common Core is the creature of the Gates Foundation, with entities like the Pearson conglomerate sitting at Mr. Gates’s right hand. Pearson is the largest textbook and education software publisher in the world, as well as the world’s dominant education assessment contractor. Mr. Gates’s connection to the computer and software business is also a matter of public record."

    "The Community Center for Education Results (CCER) was responsible for creating the proposal to collect an extensive amount of student data on our children. This pertains to Bill Gates’ desire to collect student information for each child in this country that can be accessed by those producing and profiting from products to be sold to school"

  41. How to save $5Bn + $Bns more... by matbury · · Score: 1

    The SAT is a pointless test. School grades are more than sufficient for evaluating candidates for further study and jobs. According to world renowned linguist and professor emeritus at USC:

    Yes, let's drop the SAT essay. While we're at it, let's drop the SAT.

    Sent to the NY Times, March 11

    Re: "Can writing be assessed?" March 10.

    There is no point in testing writing form, i.e. the use of conventional writing style, grammatical accuracy. Research consistently tells us that writing form comes from reading, not from writing and not from study. Writing itself is a powerful tool for solving problems and making yourself smarter. This requires mastery of the composing process (e.g. knowing that as you revise you come up with better ideas). This cannot be tested. Research also tells us that high school grades are a good predictor of college success. Adding a standardized test does not improve the prediction. So there is no point in having the SAT.

    Stephen Krashen

    NY Times article: NY Times article:

    Sources:

    Reading and Writing: Krashen, S. 2004. The Power of Reading (Heinemann and Libraries Unlimited); Lee, S.Y. (2005). Facilitating and inhibiting factors on EFL writing: A model testing with SEM. Language Learning, 55(2), 335-374.

    Composing process: Elbow, P. Writing Without Teachers. New York: Oxford UP. 1973. Perl, S. (1979). The composing process of unskilled college writers. Research in the Teaching of English, 13, 317-339. Boice, R. (1994). How writers journey to comfort and fluency. Westport: Praeger.

    Grades and the SAT: Bowen, W., Chingos, M., and McPherson, M. 2009.Crossing the Finish Line: Completing College at America's Universities. Princeton: Princeton University Press. Geiser, S. and Santelices, M.V., 2007. Validity of high-school grades in predicting student success beyond the freshman year: High-school record vs. standardized tests as indicators of four-year college outcomes. Research and Occasional Papers Series: CSHE 6.07, University of California, Berkeley.

    Source:

  42. wrong by Ionized · · Score: 2

    what common core are YOU talking about?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

    so, to start with, the common core doesn't even have a required reading list, it leaves it open to schools to select.

    ALSO, their 'sample texts' to help teachers out, do include plenty of classics! it SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS shakespeare in the wiki blurb!

    so, you're doubly wrong. wtf, bro?

    1. Re:wrong by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      what common core are YOU talking about? ... so, to start with, the common core doesn't even have a required reading list, it leaves it open to schools to select.

      And that bold bit right there is the fatal flaw in the design of common core.

      It was designed as a common minimum standard that all students must meet. Some schools still follow that, setting higher goals but grudgingly accepting that as a passing minimum score. Passing the CCC gets a C grade.

      Unfortunately many schools treat it as an ideal standard that once met can be the child's plateau. If they meet the minimum standard it is considered the height of success; passing the CCC gets an A grade.

      So it is entirely up to the individual schools to determine how this works. Some schools continue to set lofty goals with the CCC as the quiet minimum standard that must be met while encouraging students to reach their highest capacity. Some schools attempt to get all students up to that year's standard and then stop; remaining effort is spent on getting less-skilled and less-interested kids to pass the tests rather than continuing the success of the students who want to learn.

      If your students go to a school with lofty standards and the CCC standard is a barely passing grade, you will feel very differently than those where the school treats the minimum standard as the goal and a barely acceptable grade is considered an A-level.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    2. Re:wrong by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Don't bother, that poster is an idiot.
      see his home page:
      http://outsidetheautisticasylu...

      I wish I looked before replying to him, cause a ability to think of change a narrative based on fats does not exist with that person.
      The site is full of inaccuracies and WTFs?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, miraculously, we reach the goal of ensuring everyone's education meets at least the standards of the common core, despite schools continuing to arbitrarily assign letters to students.

    4. Re:wrong by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      And, miraculously, we reach the goal of ensuring everyone's education meets at least the standards of the common core, despite schools continuing to arbitrarily assign letters to students.

      Do honestly you not see the issue with that?

      Yes, we get most people to meet the minimum standard, and nothing higher.

      Some schools treat it as a minimum standard, and encourage kids to reach their full potential, no matter how great that potential is.

      Sadly, most schools treat CCC as the ideal standard, once a child reaches that level they are abandoned.

      My own school district proudly announced that they were adopting the CCC standard, and using it to save money. My wife (a school teacher) showed exactly how they were doing it. The district was eliminating all advanced courses, honors courses, and most AP courses over a three year plan. We talked with a lot of other concerned parents, talked with district officials and political officials. Basically they asked why we were against saving money, and why we didn't want people to reach the minimum standards. The few people who agreed that the district was not helping the best and brightest could only suggest private schooling.

      I still had children in the system, with one still left in the school system. Since my wife was a teacher and knew what to say and who to say it to, we managed to get my daughter into the higher courses while they were in the process of eliminating them. Her core classes are now two years above her classmates, and we'll be enrolling her in early college for those four classes during her junior and senior years since the district happily did away with most AP courses during the transition.

      If you are in a district that still pushes kids to their full potential, then good for you! Congratulations! You are among the happy minority.

      If you are among the majority of families where CCC meant the district cancels advanced courses, eliminates electives, and uses it as a reason to be lazy and stop helping children maximize their potential, then you know it sucks to be in this majority.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    5. Re:wrong by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      Following up my own post with an example.

      AP Calculus is now too far removed from the common core. Fewer and fewer districts have students who are able to reach that level within the Common Core Curriculum guidelines.

      When I went to college two decades ago, college algebra was a remedial course. The first year of college math was calculus.

      Today, school districts are offering AP Algebra. The AP Calculus courses that were fairly common among my peer group (we had about 20 students in the class) are completely gone in this school district, eliminated when they transitioned to the CCC standard.

      The cry for standardization means in most cases that students are also restricted from reaching their potential.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
  43. full robust education = skill gaps at Colleges by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Lot's of jobs are saying people with the college degree are missing skills that you do get at the trades / tech schools.

  44. MCAT, circa 1987 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The MCAT made a similar, very significant change in the late 80's, moving away from emphasis on "general knowledge" ("Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?), to problem solving and problem comprehension ("A sled is placed on a 30 degree incline, it's mass X, the coefficient of friction is Y. A rope around a pulley with weight Z is attached to the sled. The sled's speed will be...").

    There was a flood of engineers soon accepted to medical schools everywhere, all of whom briefly looked like MCAT geniuses (me included).

    They changed it back about two years later.

  45. Is he doing what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stupid headline...

  46. How bout... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How bout someone who understands math, but cannot do arithmetic without a calculator/computer?

  47. Oh, great! by reboot246 · · Score: 0

    Now we can see our education system experience a blue screen of death.

    Why do we keep insisting on experimenting with the way we educate our children? It ain't rocket surgery - we've been doing it for thousands of years. Why not just teach the stuff they need to know and cut out the political correctness and zero-tolerance crap? Hold the students accountable and flunk them if they don't make the grades necessary.

  48. Sigh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Common core is a good thing. My wife is a teacher of 15 years, and the changes being emphasized in common core are critical thinking, rather than rote memorization, and teaching to the test (no child left behind). There's plenty of bits up in the air about exactly how we're going to implement common core, but it actually gives teachers more freedom in how they approach their teaching, rather than a set list of things they have to make sure the kids memorize. I don't care who may have backed the design of common core, but the goals of common core are good. Now we get to fine-tune the implementation.

    Also, much of the research that says "american schools are failing" has come from the textbook companies, who always have tests and curriculum updates designed to fix the "problems" the studies they've demonstrated. Make no mistake- no child left behind was substantially designed by textbook companies, so they could provide the solutions.
       

  49. Group Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is what I don't like about it. I've found groups and teams to largely be limiting to the top performing individuals. I think bringing kids up this way is just an attempt to make them corporate team drones and will end up extinguishing any advancements and actual ingenuity. There are of course situations where teams and groups are required and work best, but it can't be the only way to approach things.

  50. reading writing rithmatic by perih60 · · Score: 1

    shakespear is not the only " classical " writer , jules verne , h g wells , the list is endless , i am going to assume that a number of books will be used , i am concerned that some of the books used will be books that MS has borrowed from the new york libery , digitalised by MS , watermarked by the same company , and that we will have to pay to accses the same ! england , germany , the us of a , have different copywrite laws , there is in most copywrite laws a thing called FAIR USAGE , in a number of countries this means that students may use books , read them , without having to pay royalties to the author . however digitalising books , without payment to the author or the estate of them , seems to me to be piracy . in my opinion this issue should be discused ! ps sorry for the poor spelling and grammar ( alcoholic mother sent me to work at 14 ) just thought you should know im self educated .

    --
    the power of men in charge of words over men in charge of machines surpasses all wondering S WEIL