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Firefox Was the Most Attacked & Exploited Browser At Pwn2own 2014

darthcamaro writes "Though IE, Chrome and Safari were all attacked and all were exploited, no single web browser was exploited at this year's Pwn2own hacking challenge as Mozilla Firefox. A fully patched version of Firefox was exploited four different times by attackers, each revealing new zero-day vulnerabilities in the open-source web browser. When asked why Mozilla was attacked so much this year, Sid Stamm, senior engineering manager of security and privacy said, 'Pwn2Own offers very large financial incentives to researchers to expose vulnerabilities, and that may have contributed in part to the researchers' decision to wait until now to share their work and help protect Firefox users.' The Pwn2own event paid researchers $50,000 for each Firefox vulnerability. Mozilla now pays researcher only $3,000 per vulnerability."

207 comments

  1. Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh, wait...

    1. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by lexman098 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It can actually be pretty fast if tweaked a bit.

    2. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It can actually be pretty fast if tweaked a bit.

      And you can soup up a Yugo, too.

    3. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about Linux users who really do have a slow and unresponsive browser?

    4. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to be a raging fucking idiot to draw a parallel between completely rebuilding a car and toggling a handful of boolean values.

    5. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Mitchell314 · · Score: 1

      Both of them are perfectly free to stop trying ports of IE.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    6. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated"

      On my Mac, the Chrome app is 6 times the size of Firefox, and far slower. Just sayin'.

      I keep them updated. I don't use Chrome except when I have to because it's too slow (with NO bookmarks or plugins) versus my Firefox (with a shitload of bookmarks and lots of plugins).

      I use these things in my daily work. Or rather, I use Firefox in my daily work because Chrome and Safari are so slow. But I have to check compatibility with them so I keep them around and do use them sometimes.

      That's on my Mac. YMMV on your computer or on Windows.

    7. Re: Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google fan boys everywhere.

    8. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the link:

      Pale Moon: Custom built and optimized Firefox-based browser for Windows Operating Systems.

      Pale Moon is about as stock as that Yugo.

    9. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by lemur3 · · Score: 1

      you might want to open up the package for the .app on your mac to see if it has all of the previous versions inside of it..

      some people report that when chrome updates itself it leaves the old version inside of the .app

      http://hints.macworld.com/arti...

    10. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes well that's because you Mac users have to be different and like to think you're all cool and counter culture with your fast Firefox and slow Chrome.

      Meanwhile though, the other 90% of the world find Firefox to be dog slow, crash prone and generally just hopeless, which is precisely why people have abandoned it in droves.

    11. Re:Yeah, but it's fast and it's not bloated by Pope · · Score: 1

      On my Mac, the Chrome app is 6 times the size of Firefox, and far slower. Just sayin'.

      So what? If the whole thing isn't loaded into memory, why would the file size matter? The biggest parts of GraphicConverter.app are the embedded PDF manuals; if you don't open them, they're never loaded into RAM.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  2. TFA doesn't say what the exploits are? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or not that I saw. I wonder if, like usual, they depend on running malicious code from the attacking site, rather than being sensible and turning off javascript, running ghostery, and the like.

    Once you start running code from attackers, you're just asking to be pwned.

    1. Re:TFA doesn't say what the exploits are? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or not that I saw. I wonder if, like usual, they depend on running malicious code from the attacking site, rather than being sensible and turning off javascript, running ghostery, and the like.

      Once you start running code from attackers, you're just asking to be pwned.

      Turning off Javascript breaks so much of websites and online services that it isn't really an option for most users. And when you start to whitelist sites and scripts, how do you know that these scripts/sites are not compromised, do you code review all scripts each time before enabling?

      And isn't Ghostery bought by an ad company?

  3. Firefox is the most unstable program in common use by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 0

    Firefox is the most unstable program in common use when many windows and tabs are open. The latest version is far more unstable and crashy that earlier versions.

    Firefox gets more than $100 million from Google each year. Where does the money go? Do you see that amount of development each year?

    The Mozilla Foundation stopped doing more than minimal work on Thunderbird.

    The Firefox instability was first reported before version 1 was released.

  4. check the fixes over the following hours for detai by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Check the bugzilla and the security update the next day for full details on Firefox.

  5. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever considered that it might not be unstable for every one?

  6. Conditions of instability: by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Informative

    Firefox is unstable when many windows and tabs are open, even when using NoScript, Adblock, and Ghostery, as mentioned above.

    Many crashes do not start the Crash Reporter.

    See for yourself. Go to this URL:
    https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/home/products/Firefox/versions/27.0#duration=14
    (Mozilla does not allow links from Slashdot.)
    Those are NOT ALL the crashes! Those are just the crashes that don't also crash the Crash Reporter.

    The earlier version, 26.0 is crashy, also:
    https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/home/products/Firefox/versions/26.0

    1. Re:Conditions of instability: by Dagger2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have ~350 tabs in my Nightly install and it's not unstable at all. Heck, I have 1400 tabs open in my main Firefox 3.6 install, and managed to get it to 2400 recently, and it's not crashy either. Admittedly it's a bit janky due to the garbage collector (which has improved massively since 3.6), but what do you expect with 2400 tabs open? Firefox does not appear to be inherently crashy with many tabs.

      If you're seeing crashes, please post some of your own crash reports so we can see if there's any obvious common cause in them. The overall crashes per ADI reports don't tell us much about how crashy Firefox is compared to other software, without also having similar reports from other software to compare with.

    2. Re:Conditions of instability: by Waccoon · · Score: 2

      I have huge issues with Firefox, mostly with regards to memory management. However, stability is not one of them. I have maybe one or two crashes a year, and that's with a minimal, carefully culled selection of extensions.

      The big disappointment is AdBlock Plus. This extension is the source of most slowdowns, and after the v27 update, AdBlock slows Firefox down to a crawl, and sucks up so much memory that regular restarts are needed to keep the browser from going berserk due to running out of memory.

      I do know that AdBlock merely aggravates Firefox's memory management issues, though, rather than causing them. On its own, Firefox will still choke itself to death over time, and it appears to be related to its JavaScript engine.

    3. Re:Conditions of instability: by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Firefox is unstable when many windows and tabs are open, even when using NoScript, Adblock, and Ghostery, as mentioned above.

      Dont complain about problems with firefox while running 3rd party code, particularly addons that can conflict. I think I read about potential issues when combining those three, as they overlap quite a bit.

    4. Re: Conditions of instability: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a lot of tabs too.

      Which OS and ram/CPU if I may ask?

      And did you say old version 3.6 does more?

      appreciate it, thanks l

      Oh what is janky?

    5. Re:Conditions of instability: by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      Dont complain about problems with firefox while running 3rd party code, particularly addons that can conflict.

      Of course, the response whenever somebody complains that yet another feature has been removed from Firefox is, "well, you can just get an add-on that does what you want."

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    6. Re:Conditions of instability: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the fuck do you even navigate 1400 tabs? I get lost once they drop the text labeling around...20.

    7. Re:Conditions of instability: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and yours is the common attack whenever Firefox removes something because they don't have the resources to handle it at the time. And then they go on to whine because Mozilla has lots of employees and money. Entitlement is a wonderful thing, but not when you forget yourself. Next you'll be complaining because your free product doesn't pay YOU to use it.

    8. Re:Conditions of instability: by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      Pardon my french, but why the f**k do you need 2400 opened tabs for?

    9. Re:Conditions of instability: by oji-sama · · Score: 2

      Tree Style Tab plugin (for example), the first thing I install after Firefox (or second). "You are about to close 332 tabs. Are you sure you want to continue?". Admittedly not all of those are actually loaded as I haven't actually clicked all of them during this instance of Firefox.

      --
      It is what it is.
    10. Re:Conditions of instability: by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Right, but it is up to you to make sure that A) theres no conflicts, which typically occurs with overlapping functionality (COUGH adblock/ghostery/noscript), and B) the extension is well written and has no leaks.

      You would do better to complain to adblock or whoever that their extension has a memory leak than to complain about firefox.

    11. Re:Conditions of instability: by lemur3 · · Score: 1

      someone always responds to every firefox story saying they have hundreds of tabs opened..

      i dont think ive ever seen a good reason why..

    12. Re:Conditions of instability: by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      I don't, I'm just really, really lazy about closing them. Firefox copes with it just fine, so there's no pressing need to.

    13. Re:Conditions of instability: by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      I have a 3-row tab bar from Tab Mix Plus, Tabhunter for finding tabs with specific titles, and an extension that colors tabs into groups when middle-clicking on links. I use BarTab to delay-load tabs (and, importantly, to unload tabs that haven't been focused for a few hours.)

      Of course, the reality is that most of these tabs sit around being essentially glorified bookmarks, so I'm not really navigating them so much as just leaving them sitting scrolled off the top of the tab bar.

    14. Re: Conditions of instability: by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      XP x64, a Phenom II X4 at ~3 GHz, and enough memory that 32-bit Firefox can't use it all.

      It's hard to do a proper comparison between my two profiles, since they have completely different tab sessions and the Nightly one has three times as many extensions enabled, but I believe current Firefox versions do use quite a bit more memory per tab than 3.6 does. They handle it far better though.

      Jank is the term Mozilla uses for occasions when the browser UI locks up for noticeable periods of time. On Firefox, this is often the result of the garbage collector kicking in, but there have been major improvements in the GC since 3.6 (it runs for shorter periods of time and is interruptible, so it's a lot less noticeable.)

    15. Re:Conditions of instability: by Baki · · Score: 1

      But some of these extensions are the reason for me to run firefox.
      I may not complain if they don't work, but I'll stop using firefox too.

    16. Re:Conditions of instability: by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I've never installed Adblock. Between Noscript, Prefbar, and the MSVP Hosts file, I see ... well, pretty much NO ads.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    17. Re:Conditions of instability: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd probably like the program shown at the end of this post here then http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4903659&cid=46500513

  7. Yes. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes. Someone makes this comment every time, for the last 9 years, since version 1.0.

    Most people don't open a lot of windows and tabs at the same time. The people who do that are usually those doing serious research. For example, what to do about the changes in Google Voice coming in May, 2014?

    The problem is much worse when many windows and tabs are open under the Windows OS and Windows is hibernated several times.

    1. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      windows has been unstable for me since 3.0, must be the same bug they still haven't fixed

    2. Re:Yes. by vux984 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most people don't open a lot of windows and tabs at the same time.

      Define many. I routiney have 10+ windows with 20+ tabs in most of them, and another 10+ windows with 1 or 2 tabs.

      I do software development; not primarily web based, but it comes up both in web apps and web services, so I'm regularly loading and debugging sites that are rendering pretty broken stuff too.

      I honestly can't recall the last time FF crashed on me for any reason.


      The problem is much worse when many windows and tabs are open under the Windows OS and Windows is hibernated several times.

      I haven't rebooted my Mac in ages -- last time I installed an update that needed a reboot. A few months easy.

      My home office win 7 destkop gets rebooted around once a month for windows updates. Sleep/hibernate/wakeups the rest of the time.

      I'm not disputing your experience. But I do wonder whether your crashes are tied to a particular plugin, or are linked to some other characteristic of your system. We use FF at the office as well, on dozens of computers -- stability is NOT problem there as well. Don't know what to tell you.

    3. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But I do wonder whether your crashes are tied to a particular plugin, or are linked to some other characteristic of your system. We use FF at the office as well, on dozens of computers -- stability is NOT problem there as well. Don't know what to tell you.

      Ditto. I run noscript and the only "FF" crashes I've had are the flash plugin and that doesn't even take down FF - I just hit refresh and the plugin reloads. Sounds like his problem is in bad JS or plugins. I'll regularly have 20 tabs open, but usually only in 1 window, or many fewer tabs in each of a couple of windows when doing webdev. And I'm running Windows.

    4. Re:Yes. by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      With 200+ open tabs spread over 20 windows, personally I think I would crash long before the browser.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
  8. Same here. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    That's my experience, also. Version 20 was considerably more stable than the latest version 27.01.

  9. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just saying, I use Firefox as my primary browser. It last crashed.....I can't remember when. Is it maybe possible there's something wrong with your computer?

    I use it because IE...though I don't have anything specifically against the new versions, I just don't like it. Chrome, beyond not trusting it being a google product (I assume it logs every keystroke, it wouldn't be out of character for them, though I will grant they probably don't log password fields, but all others...), is there honestly a more bloated browser out there? Firefox right now has 19 tabs open for me, using 950 megs of RAM (a bunch of those tabs have plugins running such as PDF viewers or video viewers). Chrome, 3 tabs, using a grand total of a bit over 500 megs of RAM (hard to say exactly how much since I don't want to pull out a calculator and add together the I believe 8 different processes), and all just displaying simple web pages.

  10. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Even with lots of tabs open, it's stable for me on Linux. Maybe it's your OS.

  11. No app by itself is all that safe by Burz · · Score: 1

    I do my browsing in an untrusted or disposable Qubes domain, which is about as strong security as you can get for a functional desktop system. Still, it would be awesome if pwn2own made it one of their target OS's... now for *that* I would get out the popcorn!

  12. Not so many options by nashv · · Score: 0

    I am using Firefox for lack of a better option. I

    IE is out of the question because it is too clunky, and Chrome has Google intruding into extension use and so on. I had to ditch it the day I discovered that they can remotely disable locally installed extensions. Firefox and Mozilla in general seem hell bent of making everything they make as horrible and cartoony looking as possible (Austalis(-hit)) .

    It is sad that for all importance browsers have today, there are basically only 2-3 options to choose from.

    --
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
    1. Re:Not so many options by afgam28 · · Score: 1

      15 years ago, Internet Explorer had just won the browser wars, and all we had on Linux was an old version of Netscape Navigator that barely worked. Even Netscape had abandoned it and no one had any idea if and when Mozilla would ever be ready.

      Compared to that I think 2-3 options is pretty good, especially when all of the browser vendors respect web standards (even Microsoft), Firefox is completely open source and so is nearly all of Chrome and a large chunk of Safari too.

    2. Re:Not so many options by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I left firefox after 4.0 debuncle. Yes it was the first release to really support HTML 5 but it was freaking HORRIBLE. Bad UI, sloooow, and on older hardware it was unusable. IE 9 won rewards on tomshardware.com which was released march 2011. I held my nose and gave it a try. It supported hardware acceleration, html5 (I admit it was more limited at the time), and was great on my 6 core system as it has per process tab. Since 2001 it ran circles on gecko web engines??!

      Many slashdotters said ewww no thanks based on IE 6 memories.

      I then played with Chrome. Yes it is spyware somewhat but it too has important features and has less hardware acceleration but it is more secure and frankly a much better browser than Firefox.

      My father got hacked with Firefox. It is a shitty browser with no lowrights mode. It is frome the XP era and has no concept of %appdate and uses the filesystem and has access rights to some processes and threads. Bad security wise but that is what XP era software did.

      Chrome and IE 9+ have separate code bases for this with XP vs Windows 7 and greater with sandbox support. Many here use Comodo Dragon which is based off of Chrome but has no privacy issues. However, be warned it based off the previous version of Chromium with some security holes.

      Switch my friend!

      Until Firefox goes to a processing model and supports lowrights mode I will not go back. This may change hopefully as Firefox is improving with performance and ram requirements since 2011 but on a 6 core system it is stupid not to multitask!

    3. Re:Not so many options by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      IE is out of the question because it is too clunky,

      What version of IE did you last use? I use IE as my secondary browser. There are reasons why it's not my primary browser, but clunkiness is not one of them. I find it far less clunky & far more stable than Firefox.

    4. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to think Firefox is still at version 4 or something. It is now heavily multithreaded, has sped up considerably (and is now competitive with even Chrome for most users), uses far less RAM (even compared to other browsers), and has even had its process sandboxing improved on most OSes.

      None of this is an attempt to deter people from switching, but simply to fight your misinformation. It's popular to bash on Firefox lately, while telling users to switch to Chromium. But Opera is probably a better choice for users who don't want to opt into Google's services and just get the faster and leaner browser, and it is better-poised to return to greatness than stagnate like Chrome has lately.

    5. Re:Not so many options by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You seem to think Firefox is still at version 4 or something. It is now heavily multithreaded, has sped up considerably (and is now competitive with even Chrome for most users), uses far less RAM (even compared to other browsers), and has even had its process sandboxing improved on most OSes.

      Why is it still so much slower at javascript and when, if ever, will this change? I'm still using it, but it's frustrating that loading a webpage often causes the entire browser to choke hard (whether I run it on SSD or not.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On which sites? In my experience there are only a few ways it still really "chokes" compared to Chromium browsers, and that's for specific types of scripts or when there are heavy graphics effects (CSS filters etc) that Firefox is still optimizing. In fact I find Firefox faster on some sites now.

      Certain addons can also drag it down substantially, especially if you run a bunch of ones like AdBlock, Ghostery, and so on at the same time. Problematic versions of Flash or video drivers can also cause weird choking-like behavior, even if Chrome seems to work (though video drivers aren't likely to be the culprit and Flash has been nothing but shite for me lately on all the browsers I try).

      But if you're running into "choking" behavior regularly without much in the way of plugins/addons/etc, then it's possibly not even a "Javascript" issue so much as the garbage collector Firefox uses for everything. Some people seem adept at triggering it a lot (not their fault, of course, just the way it turns out). Mozilla's in the middle of transitioning to a better garbage collector that should solve at least some of those problems, but I suspect that will take them 2 or more releases.

      If you're really that upset by such pauses, then I'd actually recommend trying out NoScript, and not just on Firefox. I've even come across similar issues with certain Antivirus software on Windows, on a really fragmented hard disk, and on a dying hard disk. Firefox has turned out to be the "canary in the coalmine" for me more than once.

    7. Re:Not so many options by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      You seem to think Firefox is still at version 4 or something. It is now heavily multithreaded, has sped up considerably (and is now competitive with even Chrome for most users), uses far less RAM (even compared to other browsers), and has even had its process sandboxing improved on most OSes.

      None of this is an attempt to deter people from switching, but simply to fight your misinformation. It's popular to bash on Firefox lately, while telling users to switch to Chromium. But Opera is probably a better choice for users who don't want to opt into Google's services and just get the faster and leaner browser, and it is better-poised to return to greatness than stagnate like Chrome has lately.

      Because it is!

      No it is not multithreaded. Don't believe me? Hit control alt delete? Firefox uses 400 megs of ram and has high cpu spikes while 5 of my out of date cpu just sit there. One bad site ruins the rest of the 20+ tabs while javascript and everything else pegs just one core where a single bad script can take down the freaking browser.

      Sounds like Windows 3.11 and MacOS classic all over!

      It is snappier yes but only if you do not run more than a tab or two. It is time to move on as it is obsolete at this stage and is the new IE 6 of this decade. Stale, obsolete, and insecure.

      Firefox while it does work is not the best and it pains me to type this. Chrome works better on my older cpu with mulitcores. Maybe on a shiny new icore3 Firefox might seem snappier on lightloads?

      But the architecture is dated, insecure, and can not handle modern gpus and multi core cpus with modern security of per tab processes like IE and Chrome had since freaking 2009.

      Shoot even the recent IPhones and Galaxy phones have 4 core systems. It is 2014.

    8. Re:Not so many options by nashv · · Score: 1

      What are you taking about?
      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/...

      --
      Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
    9. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IE is out of the question because it is too clunky,

      What version of IE did you last use? I use IE as my secondary browser. There are reasons why it's not my primary browser, but clunkiness is not one of them. I find it far less clunky & far more stable than Firefox.

      IE11 is actually quite nice, speed, UI and stability seem the best among the browsers to me, and it is now up to speed on standard support, its UA even announce itself as Gecko to get the FF version of pages that do browser sniffing. But one thing is holding me back from switching and that is the lack of ad blocker.

    10. Re:Not so many options by smash · · Score: 1

      IE9 onwards is an entirely different beast to previous versions. If you haven't used IE since version 9 came out, it is worth at least testing (if you're on windows at least). There isn't really a major browser out there at the moment which doesn't suck in various ways, but in terms of suckage recent versions of IE aren't actually bad.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    11. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh....? Dude my Firefox currently with only 1 tab opened with Slashdot has 45 thread.

    12. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this person thinks multi-process and multi-threaded are the same thing. But speaking as someone who works with the Chromium and Firefox source all the time, I have absolutely no idea what they're going on about in the rest of their post. I think they want to vent because Firefox killed their dog or something.

      Mozilla's code has at most the same amount of hairy code I've seen in other projects of its size and age, and they've vastly improved things with Firefox's code over the past 2 years. Believe it or not, Chromium and WebKit are the engines that are showing signs of stagnation these days, which is partly why Google forked WebKit and started calling their version Blink.

      Firefox has enough problems without going around inventing more of them. Let's stop with this idiocy and just be glad Mozilla's an option in a world where the other significant entities offering us a browser engine are the three biggest and most profit-driven tech companies on earth. No matter how "bad" some people insist that Mozilla's become, they're still saints compared to those guys.

    13. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember a time when Internet Exploder was more popular than Firefox. I also remember lots of sites hosted on Microsoft servers being tricked into using embrace-and-extend IE-only features. But I don't remember a time when IE was technically better, in speed, standards conformance, features, or stability. I don't think this was ever the case.

    14. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Debacle.

    15. Re:Not so many options by Thanosius · · Score: 1

      Now everyone uses Windows, hence Linux and OS X users aren't exactly in a position to switch to IE, regardless of its technical merits. This is no longer a Windows-only world, even if it's still the majority.

      Besides, IE lacks the useful extensions I rely on in Firefox. Don't tell me said extensions are pointless or useless - I find use in them, so clearly they have worth. Going to IE would mean giving up said extensions or having to do things in a less smooth or capable fashion. Firefox is still the best browser for the power user who wants as much functionality and flexibility as possible. IE is for the conservative user who wants something fast and integrated well with the OS and doesn't have any particular needs or wants outside of what the browser itself supports.

      Sure, Firefox has its deficient (the inability of Mozilla to use multiple cores for separate tabs is still worrying), but you take the good with the bad. There is no one good browser.

      --
      Account abandoned. I can't fucking spell for shit and Slashdot doesn't even allow time-limited edits of posts. Plus you'
    16. Re:Not so many options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I don't remember a time when IE was technically better, in speed, standards conformance, features, or stability. I don't think this was ever the case.

      Better in standards conformance in the sense that IE6 was the de facto standard.

  13. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by ahabswhale · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's odd, I keep literally dozens of tabs open in it all the time and haven't had it crash on me for as long as I can remember.

    --
    Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
  14. Moved to opera by Papaspud · · Score: 1

    Had the same problems with FF crashing, switched to Opera next, works great for me.

    --
    Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
    1. Re:Moved to opera by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2

      The new Opera is just a butchered Chrome with less features. Please don't use crappy knock-offs made by sellouts.

    2. Re:Moved to opera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ummm Chrome in this case is the crappy knockoff.

    3. Re:Moved to opera by Papaspud · · Score: 1

      Chrome doesn't render the fonts very well in W8, Opera looks perfect, I like it and I will continue to use it.

      --
      Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
    4. Re:Moved to opera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They use the exact same rendering engine.

    5. Re:Moved to opera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refuse to "upgrade" Opera past 12.16.

  15. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by John+Bokma · · Score: 2

    Funny that you mention Linux. Firefox crashes about twice a week here, most often with multimedia content. Linux and 8GB of memory. And yes, I am one of those that keeps 50+ tabs open.

  16. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I do, too, and I have almost never had FF crash on me. Since you mention multimedia content, perhaps its your GPU drivers or some other config.

  17. Re:God by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    Yes, but don't you think we have enough crime? If God really loves us, he'll keep us in the dark as always!

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  18. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A heavy amount of crashes are related to the Flash plugin. Make sure you're running the latest version.

  19. Soooooo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The hackers waited for the Pwn2Own event to release the vunerability. This makes me wonder how many Windows XP vunerabilities are lurking and will be released on April 9th???

    1. Re:Soooooo. by Elbart · · Score: 1

      Released? None.
      Sold to the highest bidder? Most.

      Nice to see security-research becoming a racketeering operation.

  20. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I do see them making that much effort. But mostly because I actually pay attention to what they're doing, not just a few negative articles on Slashdot. And not just Firefox, either. They've helped make many a web specification, and vastly improved a number of them. Without their influence the web would be a far less stable place in general, and I have absolutely nothing against them making $100 million from Google from search engine revenue.

    I've noticed that ALL browsers have become less stable over the years, after they reach a sweet spot. Chrome is the least "crashy", but makes up for it with other frustrating bugs that weren't around a few years ago. In fact I would gladly trade it's stability if it meant it was less frustrating to use in some cases. Firefox is just another browser with its own frustrations.

  21. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would make a lot of sense, I haven't had a crash in firefox for at least a year.
    Don't have flash installed and keep firefox running with lots of tabs pretty much 24/7, the only times I restart it is when updates comes out and for windows update (Win7 x64).

    Not having flash works surprisingly well, I don't even miss it.

  22. Linux users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    They can upgrade to Microsoft Windows 8.1, that's what about them!

    1. Re:Linux users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I assume that you can pay for that too. (Since it's obviously such a no-brainer)

  23. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by redmid17 · · Score: 1

    My record on FF, thought this was a few versions ago, was just over 1 GB for 4 tabs (no multimedia, just two wiki-type pages and 2 work pages with no flash). I might still have a screenshot of it laying around somewhere.

  24. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by nickittynickname · · Score: 1

    I keep many, many tabs open all the time in osx and windows and have no issues. Are you sure you don't have a problematic plugin.

    On ubuntu, on my home machine, I find firefox unusable even after much tweaking.

    I also notice that chrome handles bad javascript much better than firefox. Other than that I think firefox is a fine browser.

    I'm sure most of the security exploits have to do plugins. Its a common trade off, lock it down and make it more secure or open it up and make it potentially more usable.

  25. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by redmid17 · · Score: 1

    I found it but I'm wrong. It was 4 tabs, but it was 2 slashdot pages (old UI) and wiki-type pages.

  26. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by mark_osmd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the 'crashy' people are installing huge numbers of questionable plugins. I have good luck with Firefox but only install a few well selected plugins (noscript, better privacy, adblock, flash block, littlefox, and self destructing cookies). Because many of those plugins block crud like flash ads I get even better stability.

  27. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've found that most often it's just a crap version of Flash, bad drivers, and surprisingly often it's also bad RAM. But there certainly are crash problems with Firefox as they do their best to bring it into the future. Of course that's not to apologize for it, but at least it's painfully obvious they're constantly improving it, even if some people seem to wish it would stay in the past.

  28. Firefox still the best web development companion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mostly use chrome for general surfing, but I still love firefox for firebug and its other very useful add-ons for web development. I know all the other browsers are copying firebug but they don't compare.

  29. To each their own by bogie · · Score: 1

    I've just not found that to be the case since the M days. And that's with usually 3-4 windows with lots of tabs open. I actually like and use both Chrome and Firefox. I think to say one is oh so much better than the other just doesn't fly from what I've seen and what my users have said. They both work very well.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  30. No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Both Chrome and IE (yes slashdotters I did say IE) support lowrights mode.

    This means it has no access to the file system at all, no access to processes or threads and %appdata is its prison ... assuming you are on Windows 7 or greater on Windows. XP users will get hacked regardless of browser because the OS does not support kernel level sandboxing.

    I left Firefox for IE 9 in 2011 after it won rewards on tomshardware.com. Then switched to Chrome. Firefox like Netscape before it is a sad shell of its former self. I do admit the later firefox releases are much more lenient on ram usage and have improved drastically.

    But I have an older Phenom II x6. Nice 6 core with virtualization support for VMWare .. but it is 2.6 ghz and is showing its age at only 2.6 ghz. My machine needs multi processing/threading apps to run close to modern and they provide greater security. One tab does not interfere with another and can be assigned for each core.

    To prevent my fan from going high and causing high usage both IE 10+ and Chrome utilize my system fine and still display pages as fast as those reading this on an icore5 or later. But Firefox puts +20 tabs on one cpu with no lowrights mode and as you can image when firebug is on it slows down all the tabs and it is a security risk.

    Like netscape it was the lack of funding that killed it agaisn't IE 6 onslaught. I wonder if the same is true? I used Netscape 4.7 before succumbing to IE 6 and then Firefox 1.5 to IE 9 and later Chrome today.

    1. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by cbhacking · · Score: 2

      Vista or greater; Mandatory Integrity Control was introduced with NT 6.0, not 6.1 (better known as Win7). IE7 on Vista was the first browser to use the Low Integrity Level sandbox.

      By default, Low IL actually does allow reading much of the file system and registry. It just can't do anything to any of it.

      For what it's worth, you can *kind of* get the same benefit on XP by running a browser as a very-low-rights user. That causes no end of problems for some use cases (like downloading files), though.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    2. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, you run Windows as an Admin and rely on your browser to reduce rights? If that's not bad enough, slashdotters voted this up!?

      OMG.... /. is D.E.A.D

    3. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Like netscape it was the lack of funding that killed it agaisn't IE 6 onslaught."

      I'm pretty sure Microsoft's integrating/bundling IE into Windows itself as a uninstallable option as well as their vendor dealings to keep new PCs IE-only played a much bigger part of netscape's downfall than just their lack of funding. Hard to secure funding in that kind of illegal anti-competitive market anyhow.

    4. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot as standard users still have access to threads, processes, and the file system. This means you can attach a rogue process or malware to an admin one which happens to run as a service. It can then be executed with full admin privileges.

    5. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux doesn't support lowrights. Standard users or the wheel group in Unix can still access file system, threads, processes, etc. Escalations can occur through an attaching to a process running as root.

      So Windows is ahead in this area with lowrights.

    6. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      IE 6 was the better browser sadly. If you can believe that which I know in 2014 that is hard.

      Ask any older webmaster from that time frame?

      W3C was something a committee did which was academic. Only Netscape and MS specific CSS and HTML mattered and websites needed to include specific workarounds for one or the other etc. Man, people forget how dark the web was 10 years ago.

      The fact the majority of non Chinese and business users use Firefox and Chrome today show bundling had nothing to do with IE's rise. It came because Netscape died at 4.7 and become very stale FAST while we like to forgot about NS 5+ as they made IE 6 look less buggy in comparison and no one really used those. I refused and kept NS 4.7 for many many users until 2002 when I gave up.

    7. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by cbhacking · · Score: 2

      Not actually true (you don't really know that much about MIC on Windows, do you?) Standard user processes, including non-sandboxed browsers, run at Medium IL. Admin processes, including services, run at High IL. Medium IL is just as incapable of attaching to a High IL process as Low is to Medium.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    8. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not actually true (you don't really know that much about MIC on Windows, do you?) Standard user processes, including non-sandboxed browsers, run at Medium IL. Admin processes, including services, run at High IL. Medium IL is just as incapable of attaching to a High IL process as Low is to Medium.

      Then why are there exploits in other browsers that do just this? I have had one myself. A rogue flash applet my AV caught trying to attach itself to a service as a standard user too I may add?

      There are many ways around this. Lowrights mode ads another layer of protection that a hacker needs to bypass in order to infect a machine.

    9. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's bullshit, a normal user's process can't trace/debug a privileged user's process.

    10. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where, show us the data ! My guess is you're just speculating,
      and actually clicked a Miley Cyrus phishing mail and infected your system that way.

    11. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by benjymouse · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're an idiot as standard users still have access to threads, processes, and the file system. This means you can attach a rogue process or malware to an admin one which happens to run as a service. It can then be executed with full admin privileges.

      Nope. A standard user (which even includes admins who have not elevated through UAC prompt yet) can only attach to processes running under *the same* account as itself, and then only to a process/thread within the same *session* as itself.

      In Windows, all services are launched in a separate session from the shell - meaning that direct attachment is not possible from a user shell to a service - even if they are running as the same user.

      Unlike *nix'es, Windows uses proper tokens. What a process is permitted to do is not limited by a user account - rather each process has its own fine-grained token. By default a process inherits the token from the process that spawned it - but it can be further limited. When you log in, the shell process is created with a token which has all administrator privileges stripped from it and which runs with medium integrity level. So even if you are an administrator you will still get a standard user token. Upon login another token was also created - one which has high integrity level and has not been stripped of administrative privileges you may hold.

      When you launch a process where the manifest demands elevated rights, Windows will issue the UAC prompt. If you accept then you get to run the process with your "super" token. This prompt is running with "high" integrity level (and by default even on a separate desktop) to prevent malicious processes already running as you from "remote controlling" the prompt at click the ok button for you.

      It is important to note that unlike on Unix where you elevate to "root" with sudo - and thus receive privileges far beyond what is called for - Windows UAC prompt *can not* grant you privileges you did not already hold (well - if *another* user authenticates at the prompt you can "borrow" that users privileges).

      It is worth noting that while all browsers were successfully attacked, the "Unicorn" class challenge Windows 8.1 x64/IE11/EMET was *not* exploited - even though it would have netted the attacker a cool $150,000.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    12. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by smash · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but IE4 (yes version 4) performed faster in the real world than Netscape at the time. IE6 came way later, the game was well and truly over by the time IE5 came out.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    13. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Linux doesn't support lowrights. Standard users or the wheel group in Unix can still access file system, threads, processes, etc.

      Oh noes, they can see my pslist. The horror.

      You can always wall a user off with selinux, what a PITA but it can be done.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by benjymouse · · Score: 2

      W3C was something a committee did which was academic. Only Netscape and MS specific CSS and HTML mattered and websites needed to include specific workarounds for one or the other etc. Man, people forget how dark the web was 10 years ago.

      This. And everyone seems to have forgotten how Netscape pushed the awful JSSS as an alternative to CSS. Microsoft actually pushed CSS at the time.

      At the time, the best browser actually won. It was the neglect by MS in the years following that was/became the big problem, one for which MS has rightfully earned a lot of scorn. MS never wanted the web to evolve too fast as it could undermine the very lucrative desktop business.

      But at the time of Netscape/MS rivaly, it was actually Netscape who tried to foist abominations like JSSS and the "layer" tag upon us.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    15. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny, "Unicorn" should be a system running as a Standard User with SRP or AppLocker don't you think? EMET, seriously??? This challenge targeted the low hanging fruit.

      I'm the orig A/C that criticized Billly Gates for running as an Admin (still funny) and I'd like to see someone (excluding an NSA insider) exploit a browser on a Standard User account with AppLocker enabled.

      That was the point I was trying to make and why I don't take these challenges too seriously.

    16. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next you'll be telling me that privilege escalation just doesn't happen in Windows or something. If a user wants to run as an admin/wheel account or give themselves passwordless sudo access or run an older kernel, that's their prerogative.

      For all the pomp around "more secure" OSes or browsers they're still riddled with security holes. That's just how the world works, and at any given point in time one of them will seem the "most" secure, despite it being a bunch of feel-good tech that barely makes an impact against determined hackers.

      The only true security is being an unappealing target, and no widespread OS that's easy for dipshit users to run will ever achieve that.

    17. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Funny as I do not run as admin normally.

      All I know is I repair computers and running as a normal user an exploit can bypass easily and attach itself to another process. I also seen a flash ad on slashdot try to attach malware to a service I had running as anormal user too! The AV caught it.

      I now use flashblock after that incident.

      I think you are ivory tower and read about computer stuff but in the real world hackers find ways to bypass. The more roadblocks you have the more steps it takes to crack.

    18. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have time for citations (use google) but last I checked ~90% of malware in the wild is rendered useless as a Standard User and NOTHING in the wild had EVER penetrated a Standard User with AppLocker.

      Flashblock, Why!?!? FF has "Ask To Activate" built in...

      I do read stuff from Didier Stevens, Mark Russinovich and TechNet when I have time. I suggest you give them a try.

      I too support the occasional home user (family mostly) and unfortunately MS has done a HORRIBLE job of implementing truly user friendly security. Windows is the only OS left that ships with an Admin account by default and it's the easiest to pwn... not a coincidence. It's also the most cumbersome to operate as a Standard User.

      I'm not going to get too technical like auditing, etc. (I'm not sure you'd understand anyway) but understand this, in this context security begins with permissions.
      Example using a vulnerable web browser and a 0-day dropper:
      -Dropper can't execute w/o "permission" (Windows UAC default) = 100% pwn'd.
      -Dropper can't execute w/o a password (Standard User) = 10% pwn'd.
      -Dropper can't drop without write permissions (AppLocker/SRP + ACL) = .01% pwn'd (nothing is 100% - it just hasn't happened yet).
      Get it?? Take this into consideration and you're on your way to escaping the Security Theater.

      Yours Truly,
      Dude in the Ivory Tower

    19. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Not all services run as Admin or System. Also, the default configuration of UAC on Win7 and up is insecure; you need to turn UAC to the top level (the default, "Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings", can be used for invisible elevation to Admin).

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    20. Re:No lowrights mode (not surprised) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Multiprocess Firefox is in the works. How long does it take I have no answer.

  31. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I had trouble with youtube playing music as soon as you use flashblock or adblock. No issue at all with other browsers.

    FYI this is after I disabled it for the FREAKING SITE. It seems unless they are uninstalled no music or videos can be displayed

  32. wtf?! Chrome developer tools SO much better! by raymorris · · Score: 1

    What?!?! Chrome developer tools beat the pants of Firebug, in my opinion. I install Firefox for non-developers, for people who consume content. For developing sites, Chrome saves me gobs of time compared to Firefox.

  33. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is *any* browser stable with that many tabs open? Not in my experience, except by failing to load half of them correctly at all.

  34. How many were DNS baed issues? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The tendency of Firefox to preserve its own DNS cach means I cannot use it when hopping from VPN to VPN with split DNS running. unless I configure and install my _own_ local DNS server to auto-reconfigure every time I activate a VPN. I'm afraid it's become unusable for me for real work and testing when switching from internal to external website access as I debug network and configuration issues: it's the only browser that fails this way.

    1. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The tendency of Firefox to preserve its own DNS cach means I cannot use it when hopping from VPN to VPN with split DNS running. unless I configure and install my _own_ local DNS server to auto-reconfigure every time I activate a VPN. I'm afraid it's become unusable for me for real work and testing when switching from internal to external website access as I debug network and configuration issues: it's the only browser that fails this way.

      There are a ton of about:config settings related to dns. For what is worth, a look can't hurt, but I hate stupid design decisions causing more browser fragmentation. I have 3 browsers to keep mental bug lists for, and extensions for each are worlds apart even with the same names.
      Stylish's bgcolor css scripts don't work in the official chrome version. Adblock has confusing multiple versions on chrome that I can't verify are legit, and I heard the filtered content is still downloaded. But stability, multiprocess tabs and no extension version number surprises for chrome...

    2. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      That is a scary security risk.

      What is to stop malware from insert records into the DNS for Russian banks etc? File system escalations are bad enough and at least Chrome and IE do not have any filesystem access and can only write to %appdata.

      But Firefox nope. I will make sure not to use it even if it does support threading like its competitors starting to do last decade.

    3. Re: How many were DNS baed issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mumbling about appdata makes no sense. Windows is insecure by design. If you have not understood this previously, and Snowden's material didn't make a light bulb go off, then you will never understand it.

    4. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by mpe · · Score: 1

      The tendency of Firefox to preserve its own DNS cach means I cannot use it when hopping from VPN to VPN with split DNS running. unless I configure and install my _own_ local DNS server to auto-reconfigure every time I activate a VPN. I'm afraid it's become unusable for me for real work and testing when switching from internal to external website access as I debug network and configuration issues: it's the only browser that fails this way.

      It's generally a bad idea for applications to be caching DNS at all. (Or for that matter "poking their noses" into anything which is an really an OS function.) The resolver library will almost always do a far better job. Including handling link level changes. In the few cases where it dosn't it's the resolver library which needs fixing anyway.

    5. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I was not referring to the insertion of false data: I was referring to its insistence on doing a local cache, appartnely not part of the system DNS, _after_ switching DNS servers and potentially needing new DNS answers due to being in a different DNS "view". This is common enough practice with various proxy and load balancer configurations, to have a different DNS record on the internal network than on the external network.

      Inserting false DNS records is a whole _different_ security risk, one that is an ongoing problem that web browsers can do little about. In theory, it should be noticeable via SSL certificate failures. In practice, there are so many stolen "CA" or "Certificate Authority" records in the wild that can be used to sign arbitrary SSL certificates that we canot rely on a fake website not having a signed, apparently legitimate SSL certificate even for a corporate site like a bank. So poisoned DNS records, which is the problem you are referring to, are a much larger risk than one might expect. And the browsers can do _nothing_ about this. It's a failure of the SSL architecture.

    6. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Well the OS would be a better way to store DNS caches as it is updated with properly security often.

      I had a man in the middle attack before about 10 years ago when something didn't seem right. After flushing dns I re pinged and another ip address was shown. Ahh the joys of old XP pre-SP 2 :-)

      I do not trust Mozilla to have the resources that Apple, Redhat, or Microsoft have in this area frankly.

    7. Re: How many were DNS baed issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing this Asshat says makes sense and judging by his quick responses he doesn't have a job/life. He's drunk in moms basement or retarded, possibly both.

    8. Re:How many were DNS baed issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh yeah, Apple who just got caught not testing invalid certificates on their TLS implementation.

      captcha: untested

  35. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's 2014 and you're still using flash on youtube? Why the hell?

    youtube.com/html5

  36. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    My lady is running less plugins than I am, and literally running a subset of the plugins I am running, and her Firefox crashes fairly frequently while mine crashes only occasionally on a resume from suspend. The notable difference is that she is running Windows (7 x32) and I am running Linux (Ubuntu somethingrecent.) If one of us has more stable hardware, it's her, and not me.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  37. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by ahabswhale · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would recommend noscript. Firefox does have a glaring flaw in that all the tabs run in the same process so if one gets wonky, it's game over for everything. It's probably flash that's killing you. I use noscript which blocks everything (like flash) that I don't explicitly want running and it makes Firefox very stable. As a side benefit, it makes browsing much safer. I use Chrome a lot too but when I'm going to any questionable sites, I use firefox just because of noscript.

    --
    Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
  38. What ever you're doing, you're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use Firefox all fucking day long at work and come home and use it more. I see maybe one crash every 3 or 4 months. It's a surprise, an abnormality. WTF are you doing? Run memtest, don't run stupid, check your PEBKAC, show me a fucking stack trace or it didn't happen.

  39. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my experience, FF crashes are somewhat predictable as you see slowdown typing or clicking, and notice FF pegging one of your cores.
    It does not happen on Windows if I run script blockers and turn off Flash, since site ads can't peg you.

    It does happen a lot on the work computers where JS and ads must be left on. The memory ceiling is too low on the 32 bit work image. Think that your nominal 4GB gives you wiggle room? Nope, because 1GB is reserved by Windows just to handle its resources and your hardware. So that leaves you 3GB. Basically, office apps and 30 tabs and FF gets close to 1GB and pushes Windows total RAM use close to the 3GB ceiling.

  40. Re:God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jesus Christ! DF? Do you like to share? If so hook me up!

  41. Meaningless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until another browser maker publishes such information there's nothing meaningful to compare with. Those same users could have all kinds of shit crashing. There's no way to know what the 1 out of 100 (that you are part of) are doing wrong. Stop clicking every link posted to 4chan or something.

  42. Futurepower: a true representation of everyone's e by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I understand it sucks being the 1% but that hardly makes the whole thing bad.

  43. Re:God by Osgeld · · Score: 0

    have you considered that GOD has not once appeared in thousands of years?

  44. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

    My gosh, its almost like 3rd party addons can make a product unstable!

    And its almost like people have been misunderstanding that about firefox for the last 10 years!

  45. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

    Flash runs in a separate process, and has for quite a while.

  46. Re:God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    God came back recently, through the vehicle of the operating system TempleOS.

  47. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's 2014 and you're still using flash on youtube? Why the hell?

    youtube.com/html5

    Ew. That html5 mode is a "trial" that I consider a buggy alpha.

    Lots of youtube videos will just fail, and dutifully remind you download flash. Most industry-backed and homepage-featured content wants to force the adertisement API on you, which only works on flash. Status quo for years. So if you join that trial and want US content not made by your cousin, or anything with copyrighted background music accidentally sprinkled in, google will try to monetize ads... and you'll be seeing those static-filled error messages about upgrading to flash.
    I recommend the video without flash extension on FF
    It is buggy too (ALT+W to trigger if you don't see video load), but issues are fewer than by html5 alone. So turn off flash fully and set it to autoparse on each page load via its options pref screen. Downside seems to be:

    FF only
    Fullscreen is gray (broken videos)
    Anything without video sources available in libre formats will only work as a orced non-streamed file download, and h264-mp4 and flv are pretty common. html5 still has a long way to go, and google won't consider it ready until it can monetize ads with it.

    Another workaround used to be setting iPhone and iPad user agent strings, but I failed to get that to work today.

  48. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time a client complains about how crashy firefox is I backup their bookmarks (and make a copy of their profile) delete the profile, uninstall firefox and delete all the directories then reinstall firefox and import thier bookmarks, install noscript, adblock plus and ghostery and tell them to use it like that for a while.

    Without exception, this fixes ALL the problems. Start blaming the crappy plugins instead of firefox and stop installing every damn plugin in the universe.

  49. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, right...

    I run with about 200 tabs open all the bloody time (I know...) and Firefox isn't slow or crashing.

    I also run AdBlock and FlashBlock.

    Flash is the biggest culprit to Firefox problems. And that is really no wonder, given the quality of Flash plugin code and its role as an NSA attack vector.

    Sometimes you do end up with a massive memory consumption, especially if you leave a site with some "push" feature running for several days or a week. Then its enough to kill that tab and things will settle.

    If you get Flash problems the only thing you can do is kill the tab and restart Firefox. You can usually see the Flash going amok in the process listing.

  50. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 1

    What distro/environment? In Mepis, Debian, OpenSUSE, and Fedora, it has been rock-solid stable for me using KDE 4, GNOME2, KDE 3/Trinity. I usually only keep 4-10 tabs open and use the Too Many Tabs extension for the rest, and Iusually kill off the Flash plugin via htop an hour or two after watching a video. That's a nine-year-old 2GHz Centrino laptop with 1GB of RAM, running 24/7 with Firefox almost always in use, AdBlock Plus & FlashBlock installed.

    OTOH it crashed or froze up fairly often when I was using Ubuntu (roughly May 2008-Jan 2010) on a very similar laptop.

    --
    Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
  51. Re:God by mellyra · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm curious: if God had appeared to someone, say 2500 years ago, could that person have recorded the event in any way that would convince you?

  52. Re: Firefox is the most unstable program in common by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 1

    Correction: 24/7 with Firefox almost always in use when I'm actively interacting with the system (6-12 hours/day, maybe). I didn't mean that there's always somebody using Firefox at all hours of day and night.

    --
    Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
  53. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 1

    Odd. I use YouTube relatively often, and always have AdBlock Plus &Flashblock enabled/installed. The biggest problem I've run into with the combo is that ABP thus far can't get rid of the smallish semi-collapsing ad that appears within the video and is sponsored by the account holder.

    From what I recall, though, the main difference between Firefox and other browsers is that it's the only one that lets ABP block sites from even requesting a resource; on other browsers, all ABP can do is hide elements from view once they're downloaded. That might somehow tie into the problem you're having.

    FWIW I'm using Firefox 22 (I dislike the changes made as of 23) in Mepis Linux, on an old 2GHz Centrino laptop with 1GB of RAM.

    --
    Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
  54. Re:God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    addendum: I'm not trying to make a point about testimony of a single person being unreliable, so let's assume for the sake of the argument that this deity appeared to several people at different times & places within a few years 2,500 years ago.

    How could a historian of that era have recorded these events to convince you that they really took place and were indeed manifestations of God?

    I don't see how they could (unless they include some trick which reproducably allows anyone to make God appear - something that seems at odds with the idea of a deity, shouldn't a God have at least as much free will as we humans do?) and imho your comment is intellectually dishonest.

  55. Doin' It Wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bless each Debian install with a splash of Hennessy 'cause I'm a nigger. Be an Iceweasal nigger, too. Niggers

  56. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Flash runs in a separate process, and has for quite a while.

    Rendering is done with synchronous IPC so Flash can still lag the browser UI. The separate process also only protects against 95% of Flash crashes, it's still possible for the plugin process to send IPC messages which crash the browser process (have had that happen repeatably when looking at a particular Flash movie).

  57. Does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a god appeared once 2500 years ago, is it relevant? A god that only exists where you cannot see it or in the ambivalence of personal belief is indistinguishable from an imaginary, very judgmental friend.

  58. Re:God by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

    I think it depends on the nature of the evidence. If the person had significant knowledge imparted to them that would be extremely unlikely for them to know any other way, then that would be far more interesting.

    Imagine if a prophet included a page of maths leading up to e=m*c*c or the chemical formula of a cancer cure (although I don't see why a god would invent cancer and then want the cure to be known) or maybe even a work of art that is so inspirational that people are struck with awe? However, if a god wanted to be widely known, it'd be easy to write commandments into the side of a mountain or even create a new bird species whose songs were the different commandments.

    The problem with a human testifying about contact with a god is that they should have extraordinary evidence. Third hand reports of turning water into wine or walking on water are too easy to be faked when specific knowledge of the future cannot be faked (unless it's retroactively).

    If I ever meet a god, I'm gonna take a bunch of photos, get him to post on my facebook and ask him some specific questions. If he doesn't want to impart knowledge (apart from wishy-washy "be good to others"), then I'm going to suspect that he's a hallucination. There's a lot more evidence throughout history that humans easily hallucinate and make up shit.

    --
    You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
  59. Nightly Daily by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they had attacked Nightly instead of the current release version, they could have violated Nightly daily.

  60. Was this because of the money? by houghi · · Score: 1

    I think the more concerning thing is that people were probably waiting with their exploits to cash in 50.000USD instead of 3.000 USD and thus lowering security over the bragging rights that Pwn2own is the bestest in finding vulnerabilities. Indirectly they did what closed source does and that was to tell the people NOT to give out their exploits, but instead wait.

    Indirectly is the word here. Now they are aware, they should NOT do it again, because then must take resposability. If you give people an incentive to NOT reveal something, you can nt blame later that it was only THEIR resposability. You have to take yours as well. It is not OR/OR it is AND/AND. Both are equally resposible. Not even sharing the resposabilty, equaly.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  61. Re:Heresy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    -1? For what? Can't handle the truth?

  62. Opera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    someone forgot Opera? Just asking. www.opera.com

    1. Re:Opera? by Elbart · · Score: 1

      No, why? Chrome was in it.

    2. Re:Opera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opera? aka "That browser that crashes all the time"... Uh, yeah. Opera is by far the least stable of any mainstream browser and it always has been. This makes you wonder how much of the problem is with Qt. The mobile version of Opera is actually pretty good but it also crashes more than the alternatives.

  63. thereby proving... by smash · · Score: 1

    ... that open source is superior. owait...

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    1. Re:thereby proving... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is quite possibly the strangest non-sequitur I've read in months.

  64. I'd be more concerned . . . by Ruedii · · Score: 2

    I'd be more concerned about the severity of the exploit than the number of them.

  65. Open source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the article, wouldn't it be kinda obvious why firefox got hacked? The source code is available. This means more errors and vulnerabilities are going to get fixed than in firefox than in chrome or IE.

    1. Re:Open source? by Elbart · · Score: 1

      Considering the article, wouldn't it be kinda obvious why firefox got hacked? The source code is available.

      So are most parts of Chrome, including the sandbox.

  66. fixed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We just fixed that on nightly and aurora.

  67. Servo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of the money goes to Servo I suspect. They are writing a new layout system from scratch in Rust to get, among other things, better performance and security.

  68. how did they do this? by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Wow, this is shocking they were able to pull this off! I would have thought that by the time the first or second one was found, they would be too caught up with the next version of firefox being rolled out or the browser simply locking up over and over and over due to the flash plugin spinning in a loop. It's really hard to find vulnerabilities when the browser doesn't even work and they keep changing the playing field.

  69. Software freedom > "fast" and "not bloated" by jbn-o · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At least Firefox can be altered to become what you want it to be because Firefox respect's a users software freedom. Far more important than vagaries like "fast" and "not bloated" is how a program treats its users. Proprietary browsers leave users no opportunity for improving the program. Thus security issues in proprietary programs go unfixed and are exploited for years. This, in turn, allows others to invade people's computers and leaves users helpless. This is exactly what happened with Apple's iTunes for over 3 years. I would not be surprised to learn that software proprietors including Microsoft, Google, and Apple are doing similar things with proprietary web browser programs as well.

    So while I like trustworthy programs like other computer users, I know that I can't ascertain the trustworthiness of proprietary programs like Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Apple's Safari, and Google's Chrome. The extent to which any of them are built from software that respects my software freedom is irrelevant because proprietary programs and their updates are essentially black boxes. I can't possibly inspect or fix all of the software I use, but I can put myself in a position where I stand to benefit from the improvements a lot of programmers make by exclusively running software that respects my freedom to run, inspect, share, and modify—free software—freedoms I value in their own right.

  70. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by awshidahak · · Score: 1

    Yes. Flash has run in a separate process for 5-6 years now IIRC. When Flash crashes, it doesn't take down Firefox, it just displays a block say that Flash crashed, and I believe it gives you a report link.

  71. Re: God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Imagine if a prophet included a page of maths leading up to e=m*c*c or the chemical formula of a cancer cure (although I don't see why a god would invent cancer and then want the cure to be known) or maybe even a work of art that is so inspirational that people are struck with awe?"

    That would be the Gzilt Book of Truth, the origin of which is a key part of the plot of Banks' The Hydrogen Sonata.

  72. duhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your firefox is faster cause its cached. The apps you don't use often aint...

    1. Re:duhh by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "your firefox is faster cause its cached. The apps you don't use often aint..."

      Nope. Not on this machine.

      I agree that the startup time of Firefox is a bit longer. But the performance is better. So since I have a browser running all the time for my work, startup time is not much of an issue, but performance is.

      Further, what I use them for is testing pages that are constantly changing, so caching is not an issue.

  73. Re:Software freedom "fast" and "not bloated" by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

    Or you could use Chromium

  74. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fortunately you can kill the plugin process to reanimate the browser one. The time when flash really crashes it can take the whole OS with it. Years ago, the only cure was to disable C1e halt state for my the-then system, or give up even the most basic hardware acceleration.

  75. That could be said of Chrome too by taharvey · · Score: 1

    Chrome is just Safari's webkit with slower DOM and more marketing budget...

  76. Re:Ghostery = INFERIOR + 'souled-out' by Burz · · Score: 1

    Interesting, though I've been using DoNotTrackMe which is faster than Ghostery and isn't joined at the hip to the ad industry.

  77. ALL of them are security problems... by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

    Every can be broken into and some asshole can do arbitrary things on a users machine because...

    • Defensive programming is not uppermost in their minds, performance is and that is a problem.
    • Old code that should have been ripped out with extreme prejudice long ago still exists, eg: Driveby's

    And on top of those two things there is the ever changing HTML specification, the ever changing CSS specification, and the bit of garbage called DOM.

    And cracked by a "carefully constructed URL?!? What!?!?! Can these people simply not write a safe URL parser? I mean WTF?!?!?!?!

    TBL dame up with the idea that was essentially Anonymous FTP and a bit of code that used a simple set of tags to format text so it displayed like the author intended it to be seen was pretty cool. Then came the committees with "Wouldn't that be cool" ideas and they implemented them with no regard for the implications.

    The whole bloody mess in one huge kludge of hideously bad code, bad definitions, and bad implementations of pure garbage designed by a circle jerk.

    We have waited for years for them to clean this fucking mess up and what have we gotten:

    • Check boxes that still wont be sent back unless they are checked, if the are not checked they simply don't exist.
    • Input boxes that still won't take a mask so that input is formatted correctly.
    • Validation on the form submit event?!?!?! WTF, can we not have to submit the entire thing before we inform the user that their input does not meet expectations.
    • Arbitrary timeouts that prevent large data sets from loading ( Ajax )
    • An object model in Javascript that is utterly laughable and worse then C++ and Java which is saying quite a lot.
    • A scripting language that is about as robust as wet cleanex

    It is time for the madness to stop. Lets start over and make it correct this time.

    --
    Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
  78. Re: God by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

    Yes, and even the Gzilt suspected that their religion might be contrived when they met up with other intergalactic species. Having a holy book that imparts top quality information is a lot more difficult to dismiss than a book filled with vague stories.

    --
    You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
  79. FF on Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Anecdotes are not data" I know, but...

    My personal experience with Firefox on the Mac is mostly that after a while, it starts to respond slowly and on occasion lock up for a few minutes, presumably related to paging. Restarting FF clears it up for an arbitrary amount of time.

  80. Pale Moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look into Pale Moon, it might be the repackaging of FF that you're looking for. I use it on my home PC and I've got to say I love it.

  81. I've tried to like Firefox... by Nizumzen · · Score: 1

    I've tried to like Firefox. I even switched to it for a couple of months but the thing that really annoyed me about it was the syncing of bookmarks / plugins / other stuff between machines. I use browsers on my desktop PC, laptop, mobile phone and tablet. With Chrome I have them all synced and they all work perfectly. With Firefox on the other hand I'd have them syncing perfectly for a week or so and then one of the devices would suddenly stop syncing for one reason or another and I could never work out why. I'd have to disable the whole sync configuration on the device in question and then reconfigure it again. What a time wasting exercise.

  82. Still using firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do rather still using firefox than exposing myself with possible backdoors on close-sourced browsers.

  83. AdBlock = INFERIOR + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  84. AdBlock = Inferior + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  85. AdBlock = INFERIOR + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  86. AdBlock = INFERIOR + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  87. AdBlock & Ghostery = Inferior + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  88. AdBlock = INFERIOR + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  89. Ghostery = INFERIOR + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ a faster level (ring 0) vs redundant browser addons (slowing up slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ OS, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization):

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    (Details of hosts' benefits enumerated in link)

    Summary:

    ---

    A. ) Hosts do more than AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default) + Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse", or Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B. ) Hosts add reliability vs. downed or redirected DNS + secure vs. known malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less added "moving parts" complexity + room 4 breakdown,

    C. ) Hosts files yield more speed (blocks ads & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote DNS), security (vs. malicious domains serving mal-content + block spam/phish), reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable DNS, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ ISP level + weak vs FastFlux + DynDNS botnets), & anonymity (vs. dns request logs + DNSBL's).

    ---

    * Addons are more complex + slowup browsers in message passing (use a few concurrently & see) - Addons slowdown SLOWER usermode browsers layering on MORE: I work w/ what you have in kernelmode, via hosts (A tightly integrated PART of the IP stack itself)

    APK

    P.S.=> * "A fool makes things bigger + more complex: It takes a touch of genius & a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Einstein

    ** "Less is more" = GOOD engineering!

    *** "The premise is, quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work FOR the body, rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen "I AM LEGEND"

    ...apk

  90. Re:Firefox is the most unstable program in common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are all fucking faggots

  91. mozilla developer site hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mozilla has been hacked today..
    see below link:
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web