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Jesse Jackson To Take On Silicon Valley's Lack of Diversity

Posted by Soulskill on from the equality-in-industry dept.

New submitter wyattstorch516 writes "San Jose Mecury News reports that Jesse Jackson will lead a delegation to HP's next board meeting to discuss the hiring of technology companies in regard to African-Americans and Latinos. 'About one in 14 tech workers is black or Latino both in the Silicon Valley and nationally. Blacks and Hispanics make up 13.1 and 16.9 percent of the U.S. population, respectively, according to the most recent Census data.' Jackson sent a letter to HP, Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, and others about meeting to discuss diversity issues."

64 of 397 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck that guy. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, I was sick of his guilt-peddling bullshit decades ago.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Fuck that guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      there is probably a more nuanced discussion to be had about affirmative action

      but having been in the hiring seat, I can tell you that almost every single
      applicant is white and male, and very few of those are actually qualified

      so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because
      they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier
      in the pipeline

    2. Re:Fuck that guy. by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "affirmative action"? That's nothing but a euphemism for racial discrimination. Here in California, it amounted to a modern-day Chinese Exclusion Act to fuck over Asian kids applying to the cal state universities.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:Fuck that guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

    4. Re:Fuck that guy. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much. I've had arguments with a lot of people over affirmative action, and 95% of the time they think it helps Asians get a job and education. Basically they think it helps everybody but whites, and they themselves are huge advocates of white guilt. They quickly shut up once I show them facts about how affirmative action actually fucks over Asians pretty bad, in fact it screws them much worse than white people, mainly because they have an even higher interest in higher education and the high tech career fields than whites do while being an even smaller portion of the population than blacks.

      The problem with affirmative action is it assumes that a given percent of every race is interested in x career or y school, but that just doesn't reflect reality one bit. Take music for example; by far more black people are into rap, but there's nothing inherent about rap that makes them like it more or white people like it less. The underlying cause of this schism is a simple cultural difference. The same thing is likely to cause them to be less interested in IT careers, so they don't even apply for those jobs.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    5. Re:Fuck that guy. by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      there is probably a more nuanced discussion to be had about affirmative action

      but having been in the hiring seat, I can tell you that almost every single
      applicant is white and male, and very few of those are actually qualified

      so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because
      they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier
      in the pipeline

      What Jesse seems unaware of is there's a very small pool of qualified "diverse candidates" and they are generally snapped up pronto by employers who want to be able to compete for contracts where a stipulation favors an employer with diverse employees.

      Mr. Jackson seems rooted in an age that has long since gone by. What he needs to do is tell the people he claims to represent, "pull up your damn pants, don't get ugly tattoos all over your body, learn to address people in respectful language and study your ass off rather than trying to figure how you can goof off more. There's boatloads of money, waiting to be made and odds are you aren't going to be a zillionaire hip-hop or movie star, but if you take an interest you could make more than all of them put together.

      Not popular, but then, sometimes you need to turn about and address the crowd that's following you.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    6. Re:Fuck that guy. by Tailhook · · Score: 2, Insightful

      hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino

      If minority candidates aren't qualified then the problem is unfairly tough and racially biased requirements. Get your mind right.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    7. Re:Fuck that guy. by presspass · · Score: 5, Funny

      PS before the trolls chime in with their 'fuh fuh dur yer a racist fuh fuh" nonsense, I will have you know that I own not one, but three color TVs.

      You mean: "TVs of color".

    8. Re:Fuck that guy. by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      Cheer up. When you begin losing jobs and college entrances to those less qualified, your people have finally made it. Wear as a badge of competence that things need not be set aside for you.

      And Jessie? If I were an American of African descent, I wouldn't vote for, er, ... never mind.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    9. Re:Fuck that guy. by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino

      If minority candidates aren't qualified then the problem is unfairly tough and racially biased requirements. Get your mind right.

      More H1Bs on the way - to people who don't have any problem whatsoever with learning to make it in a country thousands of miles from home.

      It's a funny old world, isn't it?

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Fuck that guy. by Frobnicator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

      Great!

      When I graduated from my university, it was almost entirely a blend of american white and asian males in the program. We had 3 white women, 2 black males, and no latinos, in a graduating class of about 70 people. One of the graduation speakers made special point of it in the commencement address when discussing issues in diversity in our field.

      When I am in a position to interview people for our engineering jobs, over the past ten years I recall exactly one female applicant with the mandatory degrees and certifications. We see mostly white males, some Asian males (mostly from India and China) and a handful of others. That isn't because we are refusing to interview minorities, it is because those are the people who have the mandatory certifications. I cannot find any solid statistics on the racial distributions of people with engineering certifications, but I'd assume they are similarly skewed.

      If he wants to address diversity in our field, he needs to look at those entering the program. If he wants more people in the job, help give them the proper educational background and other certifications required to enter the field.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    11. Re:Fuck that guy. by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

      If you do bring in unqualified people, regardless of demographic, you'll find your qualified people frustrated with having to help them all the time and resenting they get paid the same as people who do half the work.

      damned if you do... damned if you don't

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    12. Re:Fuck that guy. by gandhi123 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "The problem with affirmative action is it assumes that a given percent of every race is interested in x career or y school, but that just doesn't reflect reality one bit. "

      It's not just this. Even when black students are interested in STEM careers, affirmative action puts them in a position where their white and Asian classmates are much better prepared and capable to handle difficult STEM classes. As a result they get poor grades, feel demoralized, and transfer to easier majors. This is called the "mismatch problem."

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03...

      Recently, economists from Duke studied the effects of Prop 209, comparing undergraduate graduation rates for blacks, Hispanics and American Indians before and after the ban. In a paper being considered for publication by The Quarterly Journal of Economics, the Duke economists conclude that mismatch effects are strongest for students in so-called STEM majors — science, technology, engineering and math. These subjects proceed in a more regimented way than the humanities, with each topic and class building on what came before. If you don’t properly learn one concept, it’s easier to get knocked off track.

      The Duke economists say that lower-ranked schools in the University of California system are better at graduating minority students in STEM majors. For example, they conclude that had the bottom third of minority students at Berkeley who hoped to graduate with a STEM major gone to Santa Cruz instead, they would have been almost twice as likely to earn such a degree.

      and

      http://blogs.sciencemag.org/sc...

      More Evidence that Admissions Preferences Discourage Minority Students from Majoring in STEM

      Recently Science Careers commented on Mismatch, a provocative and persuasive new book that examines the effects of giving large admissions preferences to minority college students. One of the unintended consequences of such measures, write authors Richard Sander and Stuart Taylor, Jr., is to steer minority students away from majoring in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) fields. This happens, they argue, because large preferences encourage students to attend colleges where their academic credentials place them toward the bottom of their college classes. Science majors, however, overwhelmingly come from the upper end of their college classes, regardless of where they go to college. Students admitted with large preferences--as many African American and Hispanic students are--are therefore deprived of the realistic opportunity to earn STEM degrees.

    13. Re:Fuck that guy. by gandhi123 · · Score: 2

      "If he wants to address diversity in our field, he needs to look at those entering the program. If he wants more people in the job, help give them the proper educational background and other certifications required to enter the field. "

      The affirmative action policies Jackson supports actually reduces the number of blacks who end up with engineering degrees.

      Even when black students are interested in STEM careers, affirmative action puts them in a position where their white and Asian classmates are much better prepared and capable to handle difficult STEM classes. As a result they get poor grades, feel demoralized, and transfer to easier majors. This is called the "mismatch problem."

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03...

      Recently, economists from Duke studied the effects of Prop 209, comparing undergraduate graduation rates for blacks, Hispanics and American Indians before and after the ban. In a paper being considered for publication by The Quarterly Journal of Economics, the Duke economists conclude that mismatch effects are strongest for students in so-called STEM majors — science, technology, engineering and math. These subjects proceed in a more regimented way than the humanities, with each topic and class building on what came before. If you don’t properly learn one concept, it’s easier to get knocked off track.

      The Duke economists say that lower-ranked schools in the University of California system are better at graduating minority students in STEM majors. For example, they conclude that had the bottom third of minority students at Berkeley who hoped to graduate with a STEM major gone to Santa Cruz instead, they would have been almost twice as likely to earn such a degree.

      and

      http://blogs.sciencemag.org/sc...

      More Evidence that Admissions Preferences Discourage Minority Students from Majoring in STEM

      Recently Science Careers commented on Mismatch, a provocative and persuasive new book that examines the effects of giving large admissions preferences to minority college students. One of the unintended consequences of such measures, write authors Richard Sander and Stuart Taylor, Jr., is to steer minority students away from majoring in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) fields. This happens, they argue, because large preferences encourage students to attend colleges where their academic credentials place them toward the bottom of their college classes. Science majors, however, overwhelmingly come from the upper end of their college classes, regardless of where they go to college. Students admitted with large preferences--as many African American and Hispanic students are--are therefore deprived of the realistic opportunity to earn STEM degrees.

    14. Re:Fuck that guy. by NemosomeN · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It's not because of racism, it's because black people sag their pants, get tattoos*, are disrespectful, and lazy."

      Oh, okay.

      *Side note, I work in a non-technical white collar job, and a surprising number of my colleagues have tattoos.

      --
      I hate grammar Nazi's.
    15. Re:Fuck that guy. by galabar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think "affirmative action" means what you think it means. "Affirmative action" as applied is a system were underrepresented minorities are given a preference in admissions and hiring. Asians aren't an underrepresented minority in just about anything. In fact, they represent overwhelming majorities in many areas and are the most hurt by skin-color preference programs (aka "Affirmative Action"). We may hold different opinions on whether we should judge someone based on the color of their skin (I don't think we should), but we certainly can't argue fact, and how "affirmative action" is applied is fact.

    16. Re:Fuck that guy. by hermitdev · · Score: 2

      Working as a dev in finance for +10 years, now, diversity is not a problem. Whites may make up a significant portion of development staff (and they also make up over 80% of the population in the US), but they're almost equaled in numbers by Indians. Oriental Asians (as opposed to subcontinent) also make up for significant chunk (I've worked with people from China, Japan, Korea, Cambodia & Vietnam - and those are just the nationalities I know/remember). I've worked with a few blacks, fewer African-Americans. One of my bosses was black and he'd probably take offense to being called African-American. He was Nigerian.

      The technology sector doesn't suffer from a problem of diversity, at least in regards to race. Jesse Jackson, as he's oft known for doing, is just race baiting here. If there is a diversity problem, it's in regards to sex, not race.

    17. Re:Fuck that guy. by hermitdev · · Score: 2

      That's a nice story but Asian Americans are all minorities and qualify for affirmative action just as well as any other minority.

      All fine and dandy until the quota's been met and they need to let other, less deserving, people in because they need to make a racial quota.

      .

    18. Re:Fuck that guy. by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why doesn't he go after the NBA? They have way more than a proportionate 17% African-Americans. They must be racists.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    19. Re:Fuck that guy. by Tailhook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not even sure what "unfairly tough and racially biased requirements" means

      Unfairly tough and racially biased requirements are whatever is required of or tested for among people that are employed by some segment of the workforce that exhibits an incorrect ratio of racial participation.

      For example, since New York fire department minority applicants tended to fail the entrance exam at a higher rate than white applicants the entrance examine is, by definition, racially biased. When medical school requirements are found to impede racial quotas the solution is to create separate standards by race that specify "adjusted" MCAT and GPA figures to correct for systemic bias. The fact that the scores required of black/latino students are significantly lower than those of white/asian students DOES NOT INDICATE A LOWERING OF STANDARDS. Oh no. Rather, the lower score reflect the degree of inherent racial bias in the education system.

      Got it?

      The IT industry has escaped the good graces of contemporary racial justice for too long, as illustrated by your naivety. We welcome the good Reverend Jackson to the den of racial iniquity that is Silicon Valley and we look forward to the application of racial fairness we know he'll provide, and we're certain you do as well.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    20. Re:Fuck that guy. by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it's time that interviewers stopped judging people on irrelevancies like clothing style.

    21. Re:Fuck that guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Asians aren't an underrepresented minority in just about anything.

      Prison population. Not that I'd want to give the police departments any tips on implementing affirmative action programs, but something other than the current confirmation bias program they have targeting the black community would be good.

    22. Re:Fuck that guy. by Salo2112 · · Score: 4, Informative

      so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier in the pipeline

      He does.

    23. Re:Fuck that guy. by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Jessie Jackson doesn't care about affirmative action. He's a crook and a con-man. If there's anything that's holding African Americans back in this country (I mean besides racism), it's their seeming indifference to Jessie Jacksons and even worse, Al Sharptons (who should be in prison) complete charlatanry. Both of those men are clearly con men and bad ones at that. I don't think Obama's a very good president but at least there's finally a decent black leader that's also a good roll model. My son is black and despite disagreeing with just about all of Obama's politics, I'm still grateful he's president so my son can see someone that's the same color as himself as a not only a leader but a good man. Maybe we should blame the media, I have no idea. But what's been held up as models of the black community over the past 30yrs has been disheartening to say the least.

    24. Re:Fuck that guy. by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's time that interviewees realized that it's not just about them. Acting slovenly has a pretty good chance to offend other people, no matter how good it may or may not make you feel inside.

    25. Re:Fuck that guy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't think "affirmative action" means what you think it means. "Affirmative action" as applied is a system were underrepresented minorities are given a preference in admissions and hiring. Asians aren't an underrepresented minority in just about anything. In fact, they represent overwhelming majorities in many areas and are the most hurt by skin-color preference programs (aka "Affirmative Action").

      We may hold different opinions on whether we should judge someone based on the color of their skin (I don't think we should), but we certainly can't argue fact, and how "affirmative action" is applied is fact.

      Define "underrepresented".

      If you just go by percentage of population, maybe you're right.

      But what if, because of "affirmative action", a lower percentage of Asians who want to be doctors gets to be doctors than some other race? If 10 Asians want to be doctors, and 5 blacks, but because of "affirmative action" you admit all 5 blacks to medical school but only 3 Asians, who's "underrepresented"?

      And no matter how you slice it, "affirmative action" is LITERALLY racist.

      Never mind the fact "underrepresented" is another word for "We need quotas".

    26. Re:Fuck that guy. by lucm · · Score: 2

      That's the difference with Apple customers, who don't admit they're getting royally screwed over on price.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    27. Re:Fuck that guy. by nuonguy · · Score: 2

      You know what would be cool? Some "facts" of your own you could share with us. How about +5,Interesting worth of facts? Would that be appropriate on a "news for nerds" site?

      Even for those of use who are not fans of Jackson nor on his side on any issues, we might be more easily persuaded with actual citations than vague references to "facts".

    28. Re:Fuck that guy. by CapOblivious2010 · · Score: 3, Informative

      so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier in the pipeline

      I doubt that's what he thinks - he doesn't actually care about black or latino people. He just wants the publicity, and some sort of "fund for underprivileged nerds" to be set up, which he can then "administer" in a way that benefits him and his friends. Shakedown, plain and simple.

    29. Re:Fuck that guy. by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      That.

      And generally there's more than one round of interviews. Whenever I've interviewed there's been a screening - "let's see what this guy's like" interview, which is generally followed by the "brass tacks" interview - "let's see what this guy knows and thinks he can do."

      If you can't impress the screening interview you've already failed the brass-tacks one, where you'd have a chance to cinch the job on your skills merits.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    30. Re:Fuck that guy. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually what he doesn't realize is that affirmative action is very much applying to Asians. A) It shits on them B) It is working as intended.

      Don't believe me? Here you go:

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...

      There's a certain irony in the fact that white students usually bring these affirmative action lawsuits (and that defenses of affirmative action are often framed in terms of white privilege). The evidence seems to show that if completely race-neutral admissions policies were adopted at colleges and universities, the admissions rates for blacks and hispanic would fall dramatically . . . but the admissions rates for whites wouldn't change much. The primary beneficiaries would be Asian students, who would fill nearly four out of five of the extra admissions slots.

      So in other words, the research shows that if affirmative action was removed, whites would be unaffected, but Asians would replace blacks and hispanics in big numbers.

      So what is the end result of affirmative action? Asians get fucked, and a sizable number of hispanics and blacks who are given these position in their place really shouldn't be there. No matter how you slice it, everybody loses here, even if you believe in white guilt and that white people need to be punished (affirmative action doesn't currently appear to punish them.)

      So I still stand by my statement that the claim that "95% of people think affirmative action is to help Asians" has got to be incorrect.

      I didn't make that claim. What I said was 95% of the ones I argue with about it say that.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    31. Re:Fuck that guy. by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Informative

      That doesn't change the fact its still racism and white guilt. Racism is racism and we have seen time and time again shit like affirmative action simply does not work. If you want to make ALL schools better? if you want to make it easier for ALL to get a STEM education? That is a good and logical goal, but all you do when you decide "we need more of X" is lower the standards for X and make sure everyone who is X that gets in is looked at as inferior.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    32. Re:Fuck that guy. by coinreturn · · Score: 2

      Quoting The Daily Beast in an argument against Affirmative Action is like asking mice if they think cats should be outlawed.

    33. Re:Fuck that guy. by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 2

      First, I don't know what the daily beast is trying to say. I'm not a regular reader of that website, rather I just pulled the first thing I found to back my claim; if you actually read slashdot regularly you'll find multiple sources saying the same thing on a somewhat recurring basis, and they come from all kinds of different sources.

      Is the daily beast biased? Who knows, but bias or not when you're right, you're right, and when you're wrong, you're wrong. If Hitler said night was black, I'm not going to argue with him on that just because I think he's wrong on a bunch of other stuff. It seems like you already hate the daily beast (why I don't know) but unless you have proof of the contrary, or a good reason to suspect their wrong, announce it rather than saying something to the effect of "well I just hate them." In other words, attack the argument, not the person.

      Second, I don't need to create such an argument because a lot of Asians are already doing exactly that. And rightfully so as they're the ones getting screwed the hardest. I'm already about to graduate from college myself, and after that happens I intend on being self employed and/or contracting, so AA doesn't apply to me in either case, nor do I have any kids, thus I have no dog in this fight. At the same time though, when I spot an injustice I will call it out, regardless of whether or not it affects me.

      Third, when I say AA is working as intended, I mean exactly that: It is keeping the races aligned according to a rather arbitrary definition of what percent of them "ought to be" there, with complete disregard of the number of them who even apply to begin with or actually do belong there. I never said that it is intended to fuck over Asians, however and this is the key: Its intended result does have the effect of fucking over Asians, even though fucking over Asians isn't the intent of the program itself.

      I hope that is clear enough for you. Thank you.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    34. Re:Fuck that guy. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Well, that's what your anecdotes say. Mine suggest that the slickly dressed goons with the degrees are the ones who ask the one guy dressed in a tshirt or polo shirt for help. As my language suggests, I'm talking about what should be, not what is.

      A focus on skills over highschool level clique behavior like fretting over fashion would benefit the business world in general.

    35. Re:Fuck that guy. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      You can flip that first argument around very easily. Employers who enforce dress codes are thinking: "People who think clothing fashion trends and social conformity are more important than getting work done are insecure adolescents who still haven't graduated highschool."

      An interview should model a typical day on the job. Pointless trick questions about 'goals' and personal life, along with passive-aggressive gamesmanship, are bullshit.

      This status quo basically calls for one to lie, to project a false image that complies with either impossible to maintain and/or irrelevant expectations. Dress code is essentially a red herring. Choosing to wear a t-shirt and jeans over a suit is not the same thing as walking around in your underwear in public. ..and if you're dating girls that use your fashion as the first cut, then all I can say is I hope you enjoy getting raped in divorce court.

      Employers shouldn't give a shit what people wear as long as it doesn't get in the way of doing their jobs. The only exception would be safety, and even that fits under the same umbrella.

    36. Re: Fuck that guy. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Sounds like you spend most of your time hiring and/or working for insecure adolescents who still haven't graduated highschool. What someone wears is of little consequence for a desk job. Why would you ask for commitments from 'third parties' who judge on such irrational means? I wouldn't trust them worth a damn on that basis alone.

  2. Why are there so few black engineers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.

    1. Re: Why are there so few black engineers? by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.
      "

      To be honest, AMERICAN culture doesn't either. Is why celebrities, athletes, and entertainers are paid dump truck loads of cash while the really intelligent folks ( scientists, reaearchers, you know folks who actually create the world as we know it today ) are compensated at a much lower level.

      Given that, if you're growing up in America are you going to strive to be a math whiz or a pro-athlete ? Which gives you the ideal " American " lifestyle ?

      Here in the good ol US of A, we glorify a lot of things: War, wealth, and power to name but a few. Intelligence is way, Way, WAY down the list.

      In fact, if you're TOO good at say, Math, in school, you become a target and an outcast because you don't fit in with the cool crowd folks now. Your life will become a living hell.

    2. Re:Why are there so few black engineers? by aurizon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, black culture penalizes anyone black who allows his/her intelligence to get them ahead. Any child who does so is beaten and bullied by the other black kids, so they learn to hide their abilities and blend in. Some emerge and excell, but sadly, too many are lost to the lifestyle.
      As a retired teacher, I have seen this and it is hard to eliminate, and if you try, it is risky.

    3. Re:Why are there so few black engineers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, black culture penalizes anyone black who allows his/her intelligence to get them ahead. Any child who does so is beaten and bullied by the other black kids, so they learn to hide their abilities and blend in. Some emerge and excell, but sadly, too many are lost to the lifestyle. As a retired teacher, I have seen this and it is hard to eliminate, and if you try, it is risky.

      AC to preserve mods. I really, really don't want to agree with this. It seems like a topic better suited for the 1950's than the 2010's. But, I have seen it happen firsthand at a goddammed university. In grad school, one of the most brilliant people I knew was a blerd, his dad was an engineer and his mom was a nurse, the guy was doing calculus since age 8. I saw him get treated like garbage by his undergrads (he was teaching at the time) because he was a huge black guy who refused to conform to what they thought he should be. It isn't a black or white problem per se, it's a problem of how society has conditioned its members to judge success by different racial groups. Jeremy Lin should have been a doctor, Neil deGrasse Tyson could've been a baller, etc. How on Earth are we still having these conversations?

    4. Re:Why are there so few black engineers? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, black culture penalizes anyone black who allows his/her intelligence to get them ahead. Any child who does so is beaten and bullied by the other black kids, so they learn to hide their abilities and blend in.

      As an outwardly Caucasian male* who grew up in the rural backwoods of Missouri and went to school with a 99.9% Caucasian student body, I can assure you that being bullied for showing intelligence is far from being a "black problem."

      * Being a solid 1/4 Blackfoot, I prefer to think of myself as a "mud race."

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re: Why are there so few black engineers? by schnell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.

      To be honest, AMERICAN culture doesn't either.

      The first statement is racist and the second is incorrect. The correct statement is that "poor and lower-to-middle class culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence."

      I will bet you anything that the exact same premium on intelligence and achievement is shared among white, black and hispanic families in wealthy Orange County CA suburbs; while the same lack of interest is expressed among poor black families in Philadelphia, latino families in East LA and poor white families in Arkansas. I grew up solidly middle class but from my youngest years it was just understood that I *would* go to college, no excuses otherwise. I would like to think that I would have gone to college because of my intelligence and interests no matter what my upbringing ... but who knows?

      Sadly, this is a self-perpetuating theme that increases the economic divide in the US over time. I am certainly no fan of affirmative action but the situation does imply that a lack of an initial "hand up" to reach the economic and educational status that will value intelligence is a strong barrier to making that part of the culture. You generally have to get your head above water before you can see that there is land there, and the value of education and upward mobility is usually hidden from those who have never glimpsed it because it's just alien to their experience.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    6. Re: Why are there so few black engineers? by Talderas · · Score: 2

      I can guarantee you that the average and top engineers makes more than the average and top celebrity/athlete/entertainer.

      If we assume average to mean league minimum within the NFL then the salaries are...

      Rookie : $420,000
      1 Yr : $495,000
      2 Yr : $570,000
      3 Yr : $645,000
      4-6 Yr : $730,000
      7-9 Yr : $855,000
      10+ Yr : $955,000

      Whether that beats out the salary of an equivalent experience average engineer I don't know.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  3. Show us. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe Jesse should start his own company, hire strictly based on race, and compete.

  4. Tech is full of minorities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just not his minorities, queue the shakedown parade.

  5. Give old man a break... by enterix · · Score: 5, Funny

    He just wants Jessie Jr to find decent job after he's out of prison...

  6. Unjust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When you think of all the good people that suffered long, painful deaths from cancer this year, it is simply a travesty of justice that Jackson was not one of them.

  7. Education... by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems like this would be an education issue not a hiring issue. e.g. are there really a lot of underemployed / unemployed black or hispanics with CS degrees?

    I suspect the tech industry has a high percentage of minorities due to Indians and other Asians ethnicity.

    1. Re:Education... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's more of a "Jesse Jackson found yet another way to use black people for his own selfish desires" kinda thing.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:Education... by breeze95 · · Score: 2

      Seems like this would be an education issue not a hiring issue. e.g. are there really a lot of underemployed / unemployed black or hispanics with CS degrees?

      You are correct. Blacks and Hispanics are underrepresented in colleges. To make matters worse less than 10% of Blacks/Hispanics get STEM degrees. For White students approximately 20% get STEM degrees. Not to mention, the graduation rate for Blacks and Hispanics is much lower than Whites and Asians. Obviously this is going to have a dire effect on the representation of Blacks and Hispanics in STEM careers. I read an article that states if Black and Hispanic students raise their graduation rates in science and engineering to equal the rate attained by Asians this would raise new STEM graduates by 48,000 annually. In addition, raising Black/Hispanic graduation rates to their share of the population and to reflect that of Asians would increase Black/Hispanic STEM graduates by more than 140,000. So, yeah, it's an education issue. I don't see this changing anytime soon, because American high school students treat STEM education as if it was kryptonite.

  8. Not Our Fault by Gre7g · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been in the tech industry (software, circuit board design, chip design, and then back to software) for 24 years. I've worked with engineers with heritage from India, China, Korea, various eastern European countries, and probably a couple other countries in Asia. I've never had a black or latino co-worker. In all those years, I've only ever seen us interview a single black candidate, and he so inadequate that he got sent home after speaking with a single interviewer.

    Hiring is not the problem. A lack of black and latino candidates worth hiring is.

    1. Re:Not Our Fault by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've worked with talented black IT professionals, but, they were from South Africa, not the USA.

      Americans have a "Thug Culture" that makes them stupid in general. It's not a racial thing at all. It's an attitude thing.

      Some resist the culture and make something of themselves. In college I met an African-American man who was very sharp - He knew there were programs, more than for any other ethnic group, to help him get a leg up and he was taking advantage of these. He was confounded how few people of his racial group were aware or willing to make the effort. His elevator clearly hit the top floor, smart, motivated and with clear goals in mind - get the engineering degree and move on to a masters. He's probably pulling down the big bucks, wearing a suit and driving his choice of ludicrously expensive car.

      Sadly, so many from the neighboring communities were only interested in doing the basic, whatever would get them a slip of paper saying they accomplished something - so could get a better job in a mall or something. No where near as much fire in them to gain knowledge and use it.

      To be fair, whenever people try to counter these subcultures they simply become bores and are tuned out. These people need a proper scare put into them - you'll be gardeners for the immigrants who claw their way to a BSE or such. How do you feel about that?

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Not Our Fault by breeze95 · · Score: 2

      I've been in the tech industry (software, circuit board design, chip design, and then back to software) for 24 years. I've worked with engineers with heritage from India, China, Korea, various eastern European countries, and probably a couple other countries in Asia. I've never had a black or latino co-worker. In all those years, I've only ever seen us interview a single black candidate, and he so inadequate that he got sent home after speaking with a single interviewer.

      Hiring is not the problem. A lack of black and latino candidates worth hiring is.

      So, in 24 years your company only interviewed one Black/Hispanic candidate and that doesn't raise red flags to you. In 24 years, only one Black person and no Hispanic was worthy of an interview. That's statistically unlikely to occur unless it's deliberate. Which proves Jessie Jackson point.

  9. Good. by Karmashock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think everyone should be subjected to this race baiting bullshit as consistently and aggressively as possible.

    This is the solution to people like this... they exploit white guilt. And in exploiting it, they use it up.

    Look at this very forum... look at all the people saying "f this guy"... exactly. Those are the people that are already tapped out of guilt.

    I'm amongst them of course. But not everyone has gotten there yet. Let Al run rampant... Everyone he comes into contact with will be inoculated against his tactics.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  10. Does Jeese do as he preaches? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So do we know the diversity situation for Jesse's organization? Just curious, as I have no idea what the situation is.

  11. Shakedown machine back in action! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cracker-Jackin Jackson is at it again, let no company fail to donate to the cause lest they be labelled racist and boycotted. Rainbow Push must need more money to pay off another staffer he knocked up.

  12. "healing algorythm" not a dumb quota by globaljustin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dont have a problem with Jesse Jackson...

    I **do** have a problem with this reductive, tone-deaf initiative of his...this program won't improve anything.

    Just as with the lack of women in tech, the lack of racial diversity is a ***symptom of a greater problem*** and trying to hit some sort of abstract "number" is ridiculous.

    The problem goes all the way back to middle school & all the way up through funding for graduate research. We don't know how to **teach technology**...partially because of misperceptions of how the industry works. Steve Jobs as "technology genius" is a perfect example. Jobs was a 'genius' at marketing & dealmaking. He applied innovation to opening new markets & had the vision to see potentials. These are great traits, but have ***nothing to do with actual computing***

    The misperceptions influence organizaitonal decisions...which influences academia...which just reinforces the cycle of bad theory/practice.

    Diversity is an evolutionary advantage, but it's **two steps** beyond fixing right now...tech's problems are systemic and hitting some artificial quota will not help fix things!!!

    First step is to acknowledge we have a problem & start talking about refining + improving how we explain tech to non-techs and students...and integrating those improvements into our systems naturally.

    It's sort of a "healing algorythm" that has to go throughout the whole system to optimize.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  13. Dearth of Applicants by Dimwit · · Score: 2

    I've worked in tech for 15-20 years now. Since about 2005, I've sat on interview panels.

    In all that time, I've interviewed maybe three black people (two of whom ended up getting hired). Same with women. It wasn't that we were intentionally ignoring resumes we thought were from black people or women, we just simply did not ever get them.

    I went to college at a school that had a large black student body (although it wouldn't be classified under the "Historically Black College" scheme). Looking at their website, the college is 52% white, 27% black, 10% hispanic white, 3% Asian. However, in my CS101 class (~50 students), it was all white and Asian guys and one white girl (who ended up changing majors).

    The high school I went to was roughly 50/50 black/white, but my AP Computer Science class in high school was 100% white. There was actually a pretty good split of girls and boys, though (it was the only "computer" class that offered honors credit, so there was an attraction to people who wanted high class-placement even if they weren't interested in CS).

    So yeah. While I don't doubt some corporations are biased in their hiring practices, there also just aren't a lot of black of female applicants, and not a lot of black and/or female CS graduates. I don't know how to address that end of the problem.

    --
    ...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
    1. Re:Dearth of Applicants by AaronW · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's the same here. I have interviewed a number of qualified women and work with several excellent female engineers but I have never interviewed an African American. I don't care what a person's background is, if they're qualified for the position then they'll be hired. The best candidate I ever interviewed was a transgendered Russian. Everyone who interviewed her recommended her and we made an offer. Sadly she didn't join.

      Sadly most candidates I interview are not qualified. When I ask basic questions that anyone with a decent CS or CE degree should be able to answer they fall flat on their face regardless of race and these are for more senior positions.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
  14. Why does it remind me of this by serbanp · · Score: 2

    awesome MADTv sketch?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  15. Hey, great idea, Jesse by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Funny

    But, before hitting Silicon Valley, why not make a stop by the NBA?

    I mean, asians and whites are dramatically underrepresented there. I'm sure you see this as a big problem, too.

    Right, Jesse?

    Um, Jesse?

    --
    Do you have ESP?
    1. Re:Hey, great idea, Jesse by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Funny

      But, before hitting Silicon Valley, why not make a stop by the NBA?

      I mean, asians and whites are dramatically underrepresented there. I'm sure you see this as a big problem, too.

      Right, Jesse?

      Um, Jesse?

      Dude - I would pay to have someone ask him that question on national TV, and refuse to cut until he answered it.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  16. That's Not a Spotlight, It's Stupidity by organgtool · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everyone in the article keeps saying that Jackson is "shining a spotlight" on the problem. Is he really? He pointed out the lack of blacks and latinos in the tech industry and did fuck-all to state what he believes to be the problem and what we can do to resolve it. If he had come out with figures that showed that there were tons of unemployed or underployed blacks and latinos in the tech industry and that the underlying problem is due to discrimination, then that would give us something to work with. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all. What does he expect these companies to do? Hire underqualified people just to get the numbers to match?

    This sounds like what my dad was telling me the other day. He used to work for the federal government and they had very detailed lists of minorities in each department. Every department was often under stress to get their numbers to match percentage of populations. But what population do you go by? National? Regional? Many of these departments were more focused on meeting these quotas than hiring the most qualified candidates, so overall these systems are counterproductive.

    And if we're so focused on quotas of fairness, should we put a quota that only 13.9% of NFL players should be black? The fact is that Mr. Jackson did a lot of good when qualified black people couldn't find work due directly to discrimination. And while discrimination may not be completely gone, it is a lot better than it used to be and not every case of underrepresentation today is due to discrimination. So keep fighting the good fight against discrimination, but if you're going to complain about underrepresentation and completely fail to show that it is a result of discrimination rather than a lack of interest or qualification, then you can kindly STFU.