Jesse Jackson To Take On Silicon Valley's Lack of Diversity

New submitter wyattstorch516 writes "San Jose Mecury News reports that Jesse Jackson will lead a delegation to HP's next board meeting to discuss the hiring of technology companies in regard to African-Americans and Latinos. 'About one in 14 tech workers is black or Latino both in the Silicon Valley and nationally. Blacks and Hispanics make up 13.1 and 16.9 percent of the U.S. population, respectively, according to the most recent Census data.' Jackson sent a letter to HP, Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, and others about meeting to discuss diversity issues."

Comments

Fuck that guy.

[jcr]

Seriously, I was sick of his guilt-peddling bullshit decades ago.

-jcr

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

there is probably a more nuanced discussion to be had about affirmative action

but having been in the hiring seat, I can tell you that almost every single
applicant is white and male, and very few of those are actually qualified

so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because
they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier
in the pipeline

Re:Fuck that guy.

[jcr]

"affirmative action"? That's nothing but a euphemism for racial discrimination. Here in California, it amounted to a modern-day Chinese Exclusion Act to fuck over Asian kids applying to the cal state universities.

-jcr

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Pretty much. I've had arguments with a lot of people over affirmative action, and 95% of the time they think it helps Asians get a job and education. Basically they think it helps everybody but whites, and they themselves are huge advocates of white guilt. They quickly shut up once I show them facts about how affirmative action actually fucks over Asians pretty bad, in fact it screws them much worse than white people, mainly because they have an even higher interest in higher education and the high tech career fields than whites do while being an even smaller portion of the population than blacks.

The problem with affirmative action is it assumes that a given percent of every race is interested in x career or y school, but that just doesn't reflect reality one bit. Take music for example; by far more black people are into rap, but there's nothing inherent about rap that makes them like it more or white people like it less. The underlying cause of this schism is a simple cultural difference. The same thing is likely to cause them to be less interested in IT careers, so they don't even apply for those jobs.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[ackthpt]

there is probably a more nuanced discussion to be had about affirmative action

but having been in the hiring seat, I can tell you that almost every single
applicant is white and male, and very few of those are actually qualified

so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because
they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier
in the pipeline

What Jesse seems unaware of is there's a very small pool of qualified "diverse candidates" and they are generally snapped up pronto by employers who want to be able to compete for contracts where a stipulation favors an employer with diverse employees.

Mr. Jackson seems rooted in an age that has long since gone by. What he needs to do is tell the people he claims to represent, "pull up your damn pants, don't get ugly tattoos all over your body, learn to address people in respectful language and study your ass off rather than trying to figure how you can goof off more. There's boatloads of money, waiting to be made and odds are you aren't going to be a zillionaire hip-hop or movie star, but if you take an interest you could make more than all of them put together.

Not popular, but then, sometimes you need to turn about and address the crowd that's following you.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[presspass]

PS before the trolls chime in with their 'fuh fuh dur yer a racist fuh fuh" nonsense, I will have you know that I own not one, but three color TVs.

You mean: "TVs of color".

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Frobnicator]

I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

Great!

When I graduated from my university, it was almost entirely a blend of american white and asian males in the program. We had 3 white women, 2 black males, and no latinos, in a graduating class of about 70 people. One of the graduation speakers made special point of it in the commencement address when discussing issues in diversity in our field.

When I am in a position to interview people for our engineering jobs, over the past ten years I recall exactly one female applicant with the mandatory degrees and certifications. We see mostly white males, some Asian males (mostly from India and China) and a handful of others. That isn't because we are refusing to interview minorities, it is because those are the people who have the mandatory certifications. I cannot find any solid statistics on the racial distributions of people with engineering certifications, but I'd assume they are similarly skewed.

If he wants to address diversity in our field, he needs to look at those entering the program. If he wants more people in the job, help give them the proper educational background and other certifications required to enter the field.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[ackthpt]

I agree. If a person is qualified, ill hire him regardless of race. Just because you are black or latino you should not get any special treatment. If we do let unqualified people in, then it perpetuates the problem by highlighting their lack of skill.

If you do bring in unqualified people, regardless of demographic, you'll find your qualified people frustrated with having to help them all the time and resenting they get paid the same as people who do half the work.

damned if you do... damned if you don't

Re:Fuck that guy.

[gandhi123]

"The problem with affirmative action is it assumes that a given percent of every race is interested in x career or y school, but that just doesn't reflect reality one bit. "

It's not just this. Even when black students are interested in STEM careers, affirmative action puts them in a position where their white and Asian classmates are much better prepared and capable to handle difficult STEM classes. As a result they get poor grades, feel demoralized, and transfer to easier majors. This is called the "mismatch problem."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03...

Recently, economists from Duke studied the effects of Prop 209, comparing undergraduate graduation rates for blacks, Hispanics and American Indians before and after the ban. In a paper being considered for publication by The Quarterly Journal of Economics, the Duke economists conclude that mismatch effects are strongest for students in so-called STEM majors — science, technology, engineering and math. These subjects proceed in a more regimented way than the humanities, with each topic and class building on what came before. If you don’t properly learn one concept, it’s easier to get knocked off track.

The Duke economists say that lower-ranked schools in the University of California system are better at graduating minority students in STEM majors. For example, they conclude that had the bottom third of minority students at Berkeley who hoped to graduate with a STEM major gone to Santa Cruz instead, they would have been almost twice as likely to earn such a degree.

and

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/sc...

More Evidence that Admissions Preferences Discourage Minority Students from Majoring in STEM

Recently Science Careers commented on Mismatch, a provocative and persuasive new book that examines the effects of giving large admissions preferences to minority college students. One of the unintended consequences of such measures, write authors Richard Sander and Stuart Taylor, Jr., is to steer minority students away from majoring in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) fields. This happens, they argue, because large preferences encourage students to attend colleges where their academic credentials place them toward the bottom of their college classes. Science majors, however, overwhelmingly come from the upper end of their college classes, regardless of where they go to college. Students admitted with large preferences--as many African American and Hispanic students are--are therefore deprived of the realistic opportunity to earn STEM degrees.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[NemosomeN]

"It's not because of racism, it's because black people sag their pants, get tattoos*, are disrespectful, and lazy."

Oh, okay.

*Side note, I work in a non-technical white collar job, and a surprising number of my colleagues have tattoos.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[galabar]

I don't think "affirmative action" means what you think it means. "Affirmative action" as applied is a system were underrepresented minorities are given a preference in admissions and hiring. Asians aren't an underrepresented minority in just about anything. In fact, they represent overwhelming majorities in many areas and are the most hurt by skin-color preference programs (aka "Affirmative Action"). We may hold different opinions on whether we should judge someone based on the color of their skin (I don't think we should), but we certainly can't argue fact, and how "affirmative action" is applied is fact.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[msauve]

Why doesn't he go after the NBA? They have way more than a proportionate 17% African-Americans. They must be racists.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Tailhook]

I'm not even sure what "unfairly tough and racially biased requirements" means

Unfairly tough and racially biased requirements are whatever is required of or tested for among people that are employed by some segment of the workforce that exhibits an incorrect ratio of racial participation.

For example, since New York fire department minority applicants tended to fail the entrance exam at a higher rate than white applicants the entrance examine is, by definition, racially biased. When medical school requirements are found to impede racial quotas the solution is to create separate standards by race that specify "adjusted" MCAT and GPA figures to correct for systemic bias. The fact that the scores required of black/latino students are significantly lower than those of white/asian students DOES NOT INDICATE A LOWERING OF STANDARDS. Oh no. Rather, the lower score reflect the degree of inherent racial bias in the education system.

Got it?

The IT industry has escaped the good graces of contemporary racial justice for too long, as illustrated by your naivety. We welcome the good Reverend Jackson to the den of racial iniquity that is Silicon Valley and we look forward to the application of racial fairness we know he'll provide, and we're certain you do as well.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[epyT-R]

Maybe it's time that interviewers stopped judging people on irrelevancies like clothing style.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Salo2112]

so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier in the pipeline

He does.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think "affirmative action" means what you think it means. "Affirmative action" as applied is a system were underrepresented minorities are given a preference in admissions and hiring. Asians aren't an underrepresented minority in just about anything. In fact, they represent overwhelming majorities in many areas and are the most hurt by skin-color preference programs (aka "Affirmative Action").

We may hold different opinions on whether we should judge someone based on the color of their skin (I don't think we should), but we certainly can't argue fact, and how "affirmative action" is applied is fact.

Define "underrepresented".

If you just go by percentage of population, maybe you're right.

But what if, because of "affirmative action", a lower percentage of Asians who want to be doctors gets to be doctors than some other race? If 10 Asians want to be doctors, and 5 blacks, but because of "affirmative action" you admit all 5 blacks to medical school but only 3 Asians, who's "underrepresented"?

And no matter how you slice it, "affirmative action" is LITERALLY racist.

Never mind the fact "underrepresented" is another word for "We need quotas".

Re:Fuck that guy.

[CapOblivious2010]

so unless Jackson thinks HP should hire unqualified people just because they are black or latino, he should probably focus his efforts earlier in the pipeline

I doubt that's what he thinks - he doesn't actually care about black or latino people. He just wants the publicity, and some sort of "fund for underprivileged nerds" to be set up, which he can then "administer" in a way that benefits him and his friends. Shakedown, plain and simple.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Actually what he doesn't realize is that affirmative action is very much applying to Asians. A) It shits on them B) It is working as intended.

Don't believe me? Here you go:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...

There's a certain irony in the fact that white students usually bring these affirmative action lawsuits (and that defenses of affirmative action are often framed in terms of white privilege). The evidence seems to show that if completely race-neutral admissions policies were adopted at colleges and universities, the admissions rates for blacks and hispanic would fall dramatically . . . but the admissions rates for whites wouldn't change much. The primary beneficiaries would be Asian students, who would fill nearly four out of five of the extra admissions slots.

So in other words, the research shows that if affirmative action was removed, whites would be unaffected, but Asians would replace blacks and hispanics in big numbers.

So what is the end result of affirmative action? Asians get fucked, and a sizable number of hispanics and blacks who are given these position in their place really shouldn't be there. No matter how you slice it, everybody loses here, even if you believe in white guilt and that white people need to be punished (affirmative action doesn't currently appear to punish them.)

So I still stand by my statement that the claim that "95% of people think affirmative action is to help Asians" has got to be incorrect.

I didn't make that claim. What I said was 95% of the ones I argue with about it say that.

Re:Fuck that guy.

[hairyfeet]

That doesn't change the fact its still racism and white guilt. Racism is racism and we have seen time and time again shit like affirmative action simply does not work. If you want to make ALL schools better? if you want to make it easier for ALL to get a STEM education? That is a good and logical goal, but all you do when you decide "we need more of X" is lower the standards for X and make sure everyone who is X that gets in is looked at as inferior.

Why are there so few black engineers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.

Re: Why are there so few black engineers?

[nehumanuscrede]

"Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.
"

To be honest, AMERICAN culture doesn't either. Is why celebrities, athletes, and entertainers are paid dump truck loads of cash while the really intelligent folks ( scientists, reaearchers, you know folks who actually create the world as we know it today ) are compensated at a much lower level.

Given that, if you're growing up in America are you going to strive to be a math whiz or a pro-athlete ? Which gives you the ideal " American " lifestyle ?

Here in the good ol US of A, we glorify a lot of things: War, wealth, and power to name but a few. Intelligence is way, Way, WAY down the list.

In fact, if you're TOO good at say, Math, in school, you become a target and an outcast because you don't fit in with the cool crowd folks now. Your life will become a living hell.

Re:Why are there so few black engineers?

[aurizon]

Actually, black culture penalizes anyone black who allows his/her intelligence to get them ahead. Any child who does so is beaten and bullied by the other black kids, so they learn to hide their abilities and blend in. Some emerge and excell, but sadly, too many are lost to the lifestyle.
As a retired teacher, I have seen this and it is hard to eliminate, and if you try, it is risky.

Re:Why are there so few black engineers?

[CanHasDIY]

Actually, black culture penalizes anyone black who allows his/her intelligence to get them ahead. Any child who does so is beaten and bullied by the other black kids, so they learn to hide their abilities and blend in.

As an outwardly Caucasian male* who grew up in the rural backwoods of Missouri and went to school with a 99.9% Caucasian student body, I can assure you that being bullied for showing intelligence is far from being a "black problem."

* Being a solid 1/4 Blackfoot, I prefer to think of myself as a "mud race."

Re: Why are there so few black engineers?

[schnell]

Black culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence.

To be honest, AMERICAN culture doesn't either.

The first statement is racist and the second is incorrect. The correct statement is that "poor and lower-to-middle class culture doesn't reward or encourage intelligence."

I will bet you anything that the exact same premium on intelligence and achievement is shared among white, black and hispanic families in wealthy Orange County CA suburbs; while the same lack of interest is expressed among poor black families in Philadelphia, latino families in East LA and poor white families in Arkansas. I grew up solidly middle class but from my youngest years it was just understood that I *would* go to college, no excuses otherwise. I would like to think that I would have gone to college because of my intelligence and interests no matter what my upbringing ... but who knows?

Sadly, this is a self-perpetuating theme that increases the economic divide in the US over time. I am certainly no fan of affirmative action but the situation does imply that a lack of an initial "hand up" to reach the economic and educational status that will value intelligence is a strong barrier to making that part of the culture. You generally have to get your head above water before you can see that there is land there, and the value of education and upward mobility is usually hidden from those who have never glimpsed it because it's just alien to their experience.

Show us.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Jesse should start his own company, hire strictly based on race, and compete.

Tech is full of minorities

[Anonymous Coward]

Just not his minorities, queue the shakedown parade.

Give old man a break...

[enterix]

He just wants Jessie Jr to find decent job after he's out of prison...

Unjust

[Anonymous Coward]

When you think of all the good people that suffered long, painful deaths from cancer this year, it is simply a travesty of justice that Jackson was not one of them.

Education...

[Luthair]

Seems like this would be an education issue not a hiring issue. e.g. are there really a lot of underemployed / unemployed black or hispanics with CS degrees?

I suspect the tech industry has a high percentage of minorities due to Indians and other Asians ethnicity.

Re:Education...

[CanHasDIY]

I think it's more of a "Jesse Jackson found yet another way to use black people for his own selfish desires" kinda thing.

Not Our Fault

[Gre7g]

I've been in the tech industry (software, circuit board design, chip design, and then back to software) for 24 years. I've worked with engineers with heritage from India, China, Korea, various eastern European countries, and probably a couple other countries in Asia. I've never had a black or latino co-worker. In all those years, I've only ever seen us interview a single black candidate, and he so inadequate that he got sent home after speaking with a single interviewer.

Hiring is not the problem. A lack of black and latino candidates worth hiring is.

Re:Not Our Fault

[ackthpt]

I've worked with talented black IT professionals, but, they were from South Africa, not the USA.

Americans have a "Thug Culture" that makes them stupid in general. It's not a racial thing at all. It's an attitude thing.

Some resist the culture and make something of themselves. In college I met an African-American man who was very sharp - He knew there were programs, more than for any other ethnic group, to help him get a leg up and he was taking advantage of these. He was confounded how few people of his racial group were aware or willing to make the effort. His elevator clearly hit the top floor, smart, motivated and with clear goals in mind - get the engineering degree and move on to a masters. He's probably pulling down the big bucks, wearing a suit and driving his choice of ludicrously expensive car.

Sadly, so many from the neighboring communities were only interested in doing the basic, whatever would get them a slip of paper saying they accomplished something - so could get a better job in a mall or something. No where near as much fire in them to gain knowledge and use it.

To be fair, whenever people try to counter these subcultures they simply become bores and are tuned out. These people need a proper scare put into them - you'll be gardeners for the immigrants who claw their way to a BSE or such. How do you feel about that?

Good.

[Karmashock]

I think everyone should be subjected to this race baiting bullshit as consistently and aggressively as possible.

This is the solution to people like this... they exploit white guilt. And in exploiting it, they use it up.

Look at this very forum... look at all the people saying "f this guy"... exactly. Those are the people that are already tapped out of guilt.

I'm amongst them of course. But not everyone has gotten there yet. Let Al run rampant... Everyone he comes into contact with will be inoculated against his tactics.

Does Jeese do as he preaches?

[Anonymous Coward]

So do we know the diversity situation for Jesse's organization? Just curious, as I have no idea what the situation is.

"healing algorythm" not a dumb quota

[globaljustin]

I dont have a problem with Jesse Jackson...

I **do** have a problem with this reductive, tone-deaf initiative of his...this program won't improve anything.

Just as with the lack of women in tech, the lack of racial diversity is a ***symptom of a greater problem*** and trying to hit some sort of abstract "number" is ridiculous.

The problem goes all the way back to middle school & all the way up through funding for graduate research. We don't know how to **teach technology**...partially because of misperceptions of how the industry works. Steve Jobs as "technology genius" is a perfect example. Jobs was a 'genius' at marketing & dealmaking. He applied innovation to opening new markets & had the vision to see potentials. These are great traits, but have ***nothing to do with actual computing***

The misperceptions influence organizaitonal decisions...which influences academia...which just reinforces the cycle of bad theory/practice.

Diversity is an evolutionary advantage, but it's **two steps** beyond fixing right now...tech's problems are systemic and hitting some artificial quota will not help fix things!!!

First step is to acknowledge we have a problem & start talking about refining + improving how we explain tech to non-techs and students...and integrating those improvements into our systems naturally.

It's sort of a "healing algorythm" that has to go throughout the whole system to optimize.

Hey, great idea, Jesse

[Trailer Trash]

But, before hitting Silicon Valley, why not make a stop by the NBA?

I mean, asians and whites are dramatically underrepresented there. I'm sure you see this as a big problem, too.

Right, Jesse?

Um, Jesse?

Re:Hey, great idea, Jesse

[CanHasDIY]

But, before hitting Silicon Valley, why not make a stop by the NBA?

I mean, asians and whites are dramatically underrepresented there. I'm sure you see this as a big problem, too.

Right, Jesse?

Um, Jesse?

Dude - I would pay to have someone ask him that question on national TV, and refuse to cut until he answered it.

That's Not a Spotlight, It's Stupidity

[organgtool]

Everyone in the article keeps saying that Jackson is "shining a spotlight" on the problem. Is he really? He pointed out the lack of blacks and latinos in the tech industry and did fuck-all to state what he believes to be the problem and what we can do to resolve it. If he had come out with figures that showed that there were tons of unemployed or underployed blacks and latinos in the tech industry and that the underlying problem is due to discrimination, then that would give us something to work with. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all. What does he expect these companies to do? Hire underqualified people just to get the numbers to match?

This sounds like what my dad was telling me the other day. He used to work for the federal government and they had very detailed lists of minorities in each department. Every department was often under stress to get their numbers to match percentage of populations. But what population do you go by? National? Regional? Many of these departments were more focused on meeting these quotas than hiring the most qualified candidates, so overall these systems are counterproductive.

And if we're so focused on quotas of fairness, should we put a quota that only 13.9% of NFL players should be black? The fact is that Mr. Jackson did a lot of good when qualified black people couldn't find work due directly to discrimination. And while discrimination may not be completely gone, it is a lot better than it used to be and not every case of underrepresentation today is due to discrimination. So keep fighting the good fight against discrimination, but if you're going to complain about underrepresentation and completely fail to show that it is a result of discrimination rather than a lack of interest or qualification, then you can kindly STFU.

Re:Dearth of Applicants

[AaronW]

It's the same here. I have interviewed a number of qualified women and work with several excellent female engineers but I have never interviewed an African American. I don't care what a person's background is, if they're qualified for the position then they'll be hired. The best candidate I ever interviewed was a transgendered Russian. Everyone who interviewed her recommended her and we made an offer. Sadly she didn't join.

Sadly most candidates I interview are not qualified. When I ask basic questions that anyone with a decent CS or CE degree should be able to answer they fall flat on their face regardless of race and these are for more senior positions.